Browns worst in the NFL at finding All-Pros in the draft

AP

When the Cleveland Plain Dealer reviewed the last 10 NFL All-Pro teams to determine which NFL teams did the best and worst job of drafting talent, it should have come as no surprise that the Browns were last on the list.

The Browns are last in the league in producing All-Pros through the draft, selecting just two players who have made AP All-Pro teams in the last 10 years. One of those two, 2005 first-round pick Braylon Edwards, had an All-Pro season in 2007 but was traded away in 2009, and even though he was an All-Pro, it’s hard to view that pick as a success for the Browns. The other Browns All-Pro, 2007 first-round pick Joe Thomas, was a rare draft success for the Browns.

It should come as no surprise that the Browns’ record over the last 10 years, 56-104, is the second-worst in the NFL. The only team with a worse record over the last decade is Detroit, which is also second to Cleveland in its failure to find All-Pros in the draft.

At the top of the list is New England, which has drafted 15 All-Pros. At 123-37, the Patriots have by far the best record in the NFL over the last decade.

92 responses to “Browns worst in the NFL at finding All-Pros in the draft

  1. Bout time we all focused on just what a joke this organization is! I mean really, the coach thinks everyone is colluding against him. Browns really stink it up….Most uninteresting team in football.

  2. And Patriots fans are always complaining about Belichick’s drafts. Hey Murph, Sully, and the rest of Will Hunting’s buddies up there: just shut up and act like you like your apples.

  3. waltdawg says: Apr 22, 2012 7:40 AM

    Bout time we all focused on just what a joke this organization is! I mean really, the coach thinks everyone is colluding against him. Browns really stink it up….Most uninteresting team in football.
    *************************************************
    Hey, at least they have a great fan base and don’t make a habit of hiring convicts, just because they play for less.

    Like the Bengals.

  4. I think heckert will change this statistic…..but we will see. Itll take a few years until heckert has built the teamthrough the draft that we will see what product he is capable of putting on the field. Players always play bett and look better when your surrounded by othergood players. Are defense is only missing a few pieces in the puzzle. Now our offense is another story and hopefully he addresses that this year in the draft and last years picks like greg little, hardesty, carlton mitchell, pinkston, lauvao, mccoy step it up in there second and third years

  5. eastsideballa says:
    Apr 22, 2012 7:39 AM
    The Patriots record of 123-37 is inaccurate, it should look like *123-37.
    ——————————————
    How you like them apples? Still angry little Bill spurned your joke of an organization? Face it, since Mangini left, (a Bill protege) the Yets have not drafted very well.

    And everyone says Belichick can’t draft.

  6. No that can’t be true because I listen every year to how the patriots MUST pick an olb and de this year, and how awful bb is at drafting. And these same people always have the same 8 players as their argument to bb busts.

  7. The Browns have always had a soft spot for myself. They haven’t done much but I feel they’re a couple of players away from being formidable. Richardson, Hill, and Fleener if he’s available early second would be great picks for them and boost their lack of position players on O.

  8. All of this “All-Pro” talk bores me… That term is reminds me of the damn Pro Bowl, which is just a huge circlejerk. This chart is flawed for that very reason. Of course people will vote for more players on a team that has a better record. Take one of them guys and put them on the Browns and chances are they wont be voted “All-Pro”. The way I see it PFT owes me 4 minutes for the time I spent on this post.

  9. Not here to defend the brownies at all but it seems to me that achieving “All-Pro” status is greatly influanced by being on a winning team.

    Some of the best football players have been stuck on lousy teams.

    If you collect enough all pros then I guess you can become a winning team.

    But being on a winning team seems to make people look better than what they are.

    As a Ravens fan I can point to several all-pro linebackers who left the team for a free agent deal elsewhere only to underperform for their new team.

    Matt Cassel of the Patriots sure looks a lot better than Matt Cassel of the Chiefs

  10. I read/heard somewhere that there are only 3 teams that do their own scouting and have their own full time scouting staff. I think it was New England, Baltimore and perhaps the Steelers. Seems like those three draft relatively well. Just saying….

  11. the more telling stat in that chart is the winning percentages when compared side by side with how many all pros a team has had. the steelers (8th), packers (9th), and chargers(10th) have some of the highest winning percentages despite not having the most all pros and then a team like san fran is way up at 5th on the list with a bottom 3rd of the league winning percentage (.431) …yikes.

    but let’s keep this in mind: all it takes is 1 guy to begin to turn a franchise’s fortunes around. people from indy probably remember that…

  12. Another way to intepret it is that the AP is biased towards winning teams when selecting the All-Pro team.

  13. Every year the media makes it seem as if Tom Brady has no one around him on offense or defense, yet the talk about how the pats always have two first round picks and belicheck is so wise in the draft. Which is it? Is Brady the golden boy who carries the team on his back or this team has always had talent and Brady is just another cog in the machine.

  14. When Mike Holmgren took over as President of the Browns in 2010, he hired Tom Heckert as the team’s GM.

    Together, Holmgren and Heckert laid down a 5 yr plan to rebuild the Browns “via the draft”.

    That folks, takes time to accomplish and patients by everyone, especially the fans and media.

    In the past, the Browns have tried to reach for the “quick fix”, dipping in to the free agent market to find players while drafting players who never made the grade..

    It does not help when the Browns missed on first round draft picks such as Couch, Courtney Brown, Gerrard Warren, William Green, Brady Quinn are just some first round picks who never reached their potential playing for the Browns.

    As of today, the Browns are not even half way through the 5 yr plan, that began in 2010. This draft will mark the beginning of 3rd year of the 5 yr plan.

    Patience, Browns fans…

  15. The chart really shows an amazing trend, and a real need for the Browns to change their ways, which MIT be difficult, if they lack the brains to do it.

    How do you become smarter if you are not that smart to begin with?

  16. I’ll put down the urge to chortle in response to those who say Beleichick is awful in the draft (the haters will probably say he somehow “cheated” in the draft anyways.)

    Hopefully Holmgren can turn that trend around for the Browns.

    As a football fan first, having an organization with the history of the Browns remain a laughing stock is not good for football.

    Cleveland deserves better than what they’ve had over the last 20 years.

  17. Considering the fact that all pro’s are generally only picked from winning teams, how can anyone be surprised that a team that has been a losing team for so long also has the least amount of all pro’s?

    Like probowl selections in football, allstar selections in baseball, basketball, and any other sport; they are all front running selections. How many MVP’s do you find on losing teams?

    The fact that the Browns have the least amount of All pro’s and New England has the most could have been easily known by looking at their records over the same period, what a shock….people are fickle and are nothing but front runners.

  18. The Browns………….ah nevermind, if one has nothing good to say, then say nothing at all………

  19. WHAT?! You mean it’s not the Raiders? This must be wrong. The way Al Davis is trashed for his drafting how can it not be the Raiders?

    Al Davis Forever!!!
    Just Win Baby!!!

  20. You gotta remember, that a player on a team that had a great year has a better chance to make the Pro Bowl than a team that was lousy.

  21. joetoronto says:

    “Hey, at least they have a great fan base and don’t make a habit of hiring convicts, just because they play for less.

    Like the Bengals”.

    ****************************************

    Or the Patriots.

  22. @joe…. don’t the fans deserve better?

    At some point… stop buying tickets, protest… anything to stop choking down the brown BS that the Browns Org is feeding them.

  23. We Browns fans are a loyal bunch but the guys running the team seem determined to test the very limits of our loyalty. Is it really that hard to turn a football team around? All the other NFL teams, if they go through a down period, seem to be able to get their act together after 2-3 years and at least become competitive. The Browns, 13 years after coming back into the league as an expansion team, still haven’t even started getting up off the canvas. When exactly do they intend to start showing some evidence of progress? If Joe Thomas wasn’t so well-paid I’d feel sorry for him, wasting his brilliant career on such a terrible team.

  24. Winning percentage is related to the ability of players, but players are winning teams get more awards and recognition.

  25. Also think All-Pros have a little to do with winning rep. Pretty sure a few of those Pats over the last 10 years got the nod over a perennial loser because it was New England.

    All-Pro squads are almost always made up of players from teams with winning records…which speaks even moreso to Joe Thomas’ greatness. And though that may evoke a series of, “duh” responses, football is the ultimate team sport. You can be great and if the rest of your team is putrid, you are not going to get your due.

  26. another interesting piece by Bill Lubinger. He provides much greater insight than anyone else on Cleveland.com. Mary Kay (aka the gossiping housewife) should take lessons.

  27. That’s because the organization doesn’t have a clue when it comes to drafting for NEED. Just wait and see how badly they screw up this years picks.

  28. It’s important to not confuse correlation with causation in these studies.

    I’m sure the Browns’ draft record is poor, but that does not necessarily translate to bad picks. Many of those players may have been much better (or All Pros) if they had been drafted by a more stable and better functioning team or system.

    Any player of any caliber can be ruined by having three GM/HC combos in five years.

    So you really think Tom Brady would have flourished if he were picked in the 6th Round by the Browns expansion franchise?

  29. Another nice bar room trivia question:

    Q) Name the ONLY NFL city never to host or play in a Super Bowl?

    A) Cleveland

  30. I’m a Browns fan and honestly, it is hard to stick with the team. The organization is very lucky to have a fan base that puts up with this much ineptitude.

    I think the lack of All Pros on the team might also be due to the lack of a consistent system on the field. When you look at the Patriots, their system year in and year out gets the best out of players.

    The Browns have had so many changes in team approaches that they can’t get a consistency to the team. But moving from one bad management style to another doesn’t help either.

    Yes, we have had bad drafts, but at some point we have to have one consistent approach to the game of football!!

  31. Is this surprising to anyone?

    Only in Cleveland, does the local paper prepare their fan base for the draft by reminding them how bad their team is.

  32. Its the Cleveland Stains…who cares?

    Don’t worry, you’ll still get to see RGIII take the field in Cleveland this year…it’ll just be in a Redskins uniform…HTTR!!!

  33. Maybe them there crazy Falcons who unloaded their 1st round pick for Julio Jones last year weren’t so crazy after all. Kiss the……. (few) NFC South championships.

  34. The brownstains get what they deserve for forcing Modell to leave because Mayor White and John Glenn wouldn’t build a new stadium for the Browns but built the Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame…Jacob’s Field for the Injums and The arena for the Cavs.

    Now ALL THREE teams suck…serves them right.

    Now Randy Lerner got the new stadium, PSL money, parking, and concessions while he lives in luxury in New York.

    Couldn’t happen to a better fan base. Joe Thomas wish he could leave because the only time he’ll see a winning season or a super bowl is if he buys a ticket to a Raven game.

    GO RAVENS

  35. And in other news, the sky is blue..

    Us Browns sufferers have known this for years. Although, Heckert and his scouts should really take note. Some extra motivation to get it right

  36. Brown’s current GM proved while in the same position with the Hawks… that he was a good COACH. Think of these choices ALONE: Jeremy Stevens and Koren Robinson. How, with their histories could anyone have picked them. Their off-field backgrounds as ” student athletes ” was out there for EVERY executive in the NFL to see, and he selects them, only to witness the EXACT same out-of-control behaviors continue unabated throughout their Hawk careers. How does judgement like that garner another shot as GM? How about Colt? He’s looking to be quite the choice eh?

  37. The Colts are still second in winning percentage after last years fiasco.
    Congratulations Indy, sort of.

    here’s hoping the gap between the Pats and the rest of the league widens this year.

    I’m going to miss feasting on the tears of the tuck * etc crybabies when the Belichick era ends

    so keep sniveling as hard as you can losers, this won’t last forever and I want to store up lots of your tears.

  38. Bengals fan here, who lived in cleveland when I became a bengals fan (first year as a fan dick lebeau was the coach, we went 2-14 lol). Anyhow, I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the cleveland browns as I see what their fans must endure. First off, Let me say that they listen to their fan base WAY too much about how to run the team. The best thing the browns ever did was hire phil savage and romeo crennel, and those 2 turned around a revolving door QB expansion team and started building something successful. Romeo Crennel, now the chiefs coach, was the one who drafted both braylon edwards and joe thomas, and even had DEREK ANDERSON in the PRO BOWL behind his line and coaching he built. Crennel had that team going in the right direction, and within 2 years holmgrem and mangina dismantled and undid all the work and progress he made by trading away their best players for next to nothing. The browns got shafted by going 10-6 and missing the playoffs, and then had 1 bad year and they let crennel and savage go. The browns are always bad, and honestly letting mangini go was a great move, but pat shurmur is not the answer. Cleveland. please quit listening to your fan base, start by making holmgrem either the coach, or get a REAL head coach in there who can turn this team around. Pat Shurmur has proven NOTHING at the NFL level, and until you get a GREAT proven coach, someone like BILL PARCELLS would be a great fit. His 3 year plan would be better than where they will be 3 years from now, rebuilding once again. In a way I wish the browns luck, but in the AFC North, We don’t need a 4th team to be good. It’s already hard enough to make the playoffs with the ravens and steelers pushing for the superbowl every year!

  39. Brady was drafted in 2000, actually.

    Pats do have their share of misses but I read an article the other day that part of it is BB’s love for second rounders (his risk/reward credo). The Pats have drafted so many 2nd rounders that they have a lot of busts from a strict count of players, but % wise they are about normal in bust rate. They don’t miss in the first round much but they have some huge whiffs on those risk/reward picks.

  40. Hey, at least they have a great fan base and don’t make a habit of hiring convicts, just because they play for less.

    Like the Bengals.

    ********************************************

    Lets get your facts straight. Since 2/5/2009 until now, lets look at the teams with the most arrest totals. Uneducated browns fans are a dime a dozen so this doesn’t surprise me. Your total arrests of TEAM PLAYERS is 7, ours is 6. It’s ok, I already assumed you were an idiot

    NFL TEAM ARREST TOTALS FROM 2/5/2009 – 4/22/2012

    AFC EAST

    BILLS – 5
    DOLPHINS – 7
    PATRIOTS – 4
    JETS – 4

    AFC NORTH

    RAVENS – 2
    STEELERS – 3
    BROWNS – 7
    BENGALS – 6

    AFC SOUTH –

    TEXANS – 3
    COLTS – 6
    TITANS – 6
    JAGUARS – 4

    AFC WEST

    BRONCOS – 10
    CHIEFS – 5
    RAIDERS – 5
    CHARGERS – 7

    NFC EAST

    COWBOYS – 4
    GIANTS – 1
    EAGLES – 4
    REDSKINS – 6

    NFC NORTH

    LIONS – 3
    PACKERS – 6
    VIKINGS – 13
    BEARS – 6

    NFC SOUTH

    FALCONS – 5
    PANTHERS – 4
    SAINTS – 5
    BUCCANEERS – 14

    NFC WEST

    CARDINALS – 1
    RAMS – 2
    49ERS – 4
    SEAHAWKS – 9

  41. “”to determine which NFL teams did the best and worst job of drafting talent””

    All-pro is not about talent anymore. The fans skew it badly that injured players or players having a bad year still get voted in on past performance.

    The Browns are not a wining team so their ‘All-Pro’ players often get overlooked.

    The 49ers had a lot last year…but the year before last year? What…all these palyers suddenly became All-Pros? No- some deserved it the year before last year as well, and many didn;t deserve it last year.

  42. polegojim says:
    Apr 22, 2012 9:50 AM
    @joe…. don’t the fans deserve better?

    At some point… stop buying tickets, protest… anything to stop choking down the brown BS that the Browns Org is feeding them.
    ***************************************************
    Without a doubt, Jim, without a doubt.

    If you consider what they’ve been through, it’s hard to say their not the most loyal fan base in the league.

  43. im not even a fan of this division,all i got to say is I hope on oct 28 the steelers get the sh!t kicked of them..that and the bengals browns and ravens also kick the sh!t out them..hell i thought ny fans were arrogant..GO FLYERS F sh!ttsburg..

  44. And Patriots fans are always complaining about Belichick’s drafts. Hey Murph, Sully, and the rest of Will Hunting’s buddies up there: just shut up and act like you like your apples.
    ——————————-

    This is a horrible example of research and analysis as it is extremely misleading and using this article for the basis of defending Belichick’s drafts is a perfect illustration of lacking the ability to think for yourself.

    BTW – look a little deeper into how many players on this list actually were drafted by Belichick’s regime (even more so than when Scott Pioli left). Only 2 Patriots drafted during Belichick’s years have made more than one All-Pro team with the Patriots.

    Obvious flaws in this pathetic example of “research”:
    1 – No uniform standard for All-Pro, not using the AP list only. No distinction between 1st & 2nd team All Pro
    2 – No credit for developing Undrafted FAs – James Harrison, Jeff Saturday
    3 – Credit for original team drafting, despite the development and success coming from a different organization (Rich Gannon – Patriots/Raiders, Brett Favre – Falcons/Packers)
    4 – No distinction between multiple time All Pro and a player with a single All Pro season, giving no credit for consistently producing over having a career season.

  45. Can everyone stop talking about Belichick as a solid drafter? He is not… Look at the drafts since 2005 and tell me he is not a horrible drafter.

    There is Ozzie Newsome then everyone else when it comes to the NFL draft.

  46. Aren’t All-Pros selected by media reporter types?? The Browns have some good players outside Thomas: Haden, Taylor, D’Qwell, Sheard, Cribbs, Little, Ward. Not their fault if the media types don’t vote for them.

  47. apmn says:
    Apr 22, 2012 8:41 AM
    Another way to intepret it is that the AP is biased towards winning teams when selecting the All-Pro team.
    =================================
    There’s that, and there’s also the fact that the draft is just a start on a player’s path to all-pro (or other award) status. Coaching can make a huge difference, and Cleveland hasn’t had a good overall coaching staff since before their reincarnation. Crennel’s probably the closest thing to a solid head coach they’ve had, and even then they had pretty poor assistants.

  48. Holmgren and Heckert are doing it right, but Holmgen hasn’t been perfect. He gave us busted up, old Jake Delhome as our first free agent vet QB and then insisted on McCoy in the 3rd. And worst of all, he gave Mangini that extra year. I won’t count that year as part of Holmgren’s 5 year plan.

    My only complaint about Heckert, so far, is Montario Hardesty. Other than that, he’s brought in solid contributors in the first 2 & 3 rounds of every draft he’s had for the Browns.

    This draft is huge . . . Make or make-worse.

  49. The Browns are pitiful. They’ve been the beneficiary of two the biggest trades over the last 5 years and they are still a bottom dweller. They got the windfall from ATL last year but they got another windfall from the Jets in 2009 for the #5 pick (Mark Sanchez). How are they not well on their way to being a force in the NFL with all that extra ammo? Give those picks to some other GM’s and the Browns are Superbowl contenders for the next decade.

  50. More like 5: Cribbs, Jackson, Mack… all made the pro bowl… Although Cribbs technically wasn’t drafted. I think Winslow did one year as well… still not good though.

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