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John Harbaugh: Patriots’ titles have asterisks, are stained

Bill Belichick, John Harbaugh AP

Ravens coach John Harbaugh believes the Spygate scandal permanently taints the Patriots, saying the three titles the team won under coach Bill Belichick have to be called into question because the team broke NFL rules by taping opposing coaches’ signals.

In an interview on Baltimore radio station 97.9 FM, Harbaugh was asked about the Saints bounty scandal. But instead of talking about the Saints, Harbaugh focused his answer on the Patriots.

“In the end, everything is brought before the light of day,” Harbaugh said. “Even the thing in New England, no matter whether those things had any impact on whether they won their championships or not, they got asterisks now, it’s been stained. So to me, it’s never worth it. You’ve got to figure out ways to use the rules to your advantage.”

Harbaugh said he and the Ravens organization are always careful to make sure they’re in compliance with the rules of the NFL.

“If you’re cheating, in the end, you’re going to get discredited,” Harbaugh said. “It’s just not worth it.”

Harbaugh added that he believes the Ravens have been victimized by other teams cheating in the past, although he doesn’t want to say which teams because he believes such an accusation would become a headline at a certain pro football website.

“Yeah, I have, but if I say when, it’s gonna be like Pro Football Talk is gonna blow up like crazy,” Harbaugh said when asked if he thinks he has ever been victimized by another team breaking the rules. “I’m going to get accused of accusing somebody of something.”

Consider PFT blowed up, Coach Harbaugh.

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310 Responses to “John Harbaugh: Patriots’ titles have asterisks, are stained”
  1. yankeemofo says: May 1, 2012 11:38 AM

    John Harbaugh’s titles are stained…oh, wait…

  2. joetoronto says: May 1, 2012 11:38 AM

    Oh boy!

    You know Brady & BB will be trying to pile on the points next time they play.

    Should be fun.

  3. johnnyjagfan says: May 1, 2012 11:40 AM

    Whoa…”stained”? Glad he’s got a good defense or next time the Pats would score 50. Flacco is going to need eyes in the back of his head to survive 4 quarters.

  4. rc33 says: May 1, 2012 11:40 AM

    Bitter and childish.

  5. steelbydesign says: May 1, 2012 11:40 AM

    “I’m going to get accused of accusing somebody of something.”

    ———————————————————–

    So if you were to say “team X was cheating against us,” that wouldn’t be accusing them in your mind?

  6. upyoursnfu says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    Says John Harbaugh as he makes his standard sideline grumpy baby face.

  7. cali49er707 says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    over/under @ 100 posts

    i got the over

  8. steeldogg says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    Hey – he’s just saying what everyone else was thinking. I hate the Patriots but respect the hell out of their long term success… They didn’t win all of that by cheating, it’s just a shame that there remains a shadow on their achievements because of something that may or may not have actually helped them.

  9. crabboil says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    Of course the coach of the Ravens wants no part of any “bounty” discussion.

  10. niquebchillin says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    He’s right … Pats cheating was worse than the Saints …

  11. gorwr12 says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    Just win a Super Bowl John

  12. pone27 says: May 1, 2012 11:41 AM

    Well, all those fanboys who said Pats fans cant cheer for their team bc the media does it for us, enjoy.

    Harbaugh clearly is ticked at the Pats bc they owned them in the playoffs. He has no reason to speak negatively about the Saints.

    Hey John, how does it feel to know Jim is already a better NFL coach than you? Answer me that, pal.

  13. steelbydesign says: May 1, 2012 11:42 AM

    He’s right, and I don’t see why Pats fans get their panties in a bunch when people talk about it. It was PROVEN they were cheating. You can argue it may not have helped them win, but they were still cheating and there’s always that possibility they don’t win if they didn’t cheat.

  14. reasonsimadrunk says: May 1, 2012 11:42 AM

    Good point Harbaugh. Titles won where you videotape the other team’s coaches are far more stained than, say, winning a title with a murderer as your team captain. You’re all over that moral high ground John!

  15. bozosforall says: May 1, 2012 11:42 AM

    rc33 says:
    May 1, 2012 11:40 AM
    Bitter and childish.

    __
    Kinda like how Red Sox fans cry about the Yankees owning them for the better part of last century?

    Hey, pot…it’s me, kettle.

  16. dfeltz says: May 1, 2012 11:42 AM

    John Harbaugh is such a cry baby. He whines and complains all the time. The best part about these message boards is to see how the Ravens apologist will defend him.

  17. warrenmoon says: May 1, 2012 11:43 AM

    7thlombardisontheway will be posting this soon…

    6 rings is > you… jealous?

    But if there is asterisks next to anyone’s superbowls, it is all 6 of the Steelers. There is a questionable call or scandal that go them all of there wins. The fairest game was ARZ but even then there was awful “missed” calls. Let’s not forget the immaculate reception and the steroid abusers that made the 70′s Steelers. The only reason I am ripping them right now is because of 7thlombardi guy. We all know he will be posting as soon as he gets out of school.

  18. jakek2 says: May 1, 2012 11:43 AM

    The Harbaughs are royal a-holes aren’t they?

  19. unbreakable02215 says: May 1, 2012 11:43 AM

    Ravens fans, put an L next to Patriots vs Ravens
    this coming season. You’ve seen what happens
    when the 2 Bs are pissed and dissed. They take
    on the world and take no prisoners. NONE.

    The Dark Knights will rise again.

  20. thesmartest1 says: May 1, 2012 11:44 AM

    He’s right.

  21. allisab says: May 1, 2012 11:44 AM

    Harbaugh is a whiny dbag. Belichick is the reason he is the Ravens HC. Hypocrite. Work on getting your own ring, a-hole.

  22. mrplow3 says: May 1, 2012 11:44 AM

    Oh yeah John!? Well you’re titles are……….

    The thing about your dirty titles, they ARE…….

    …..Oh wait, that’s right, no titles.

    Moving on.

  23. buddybowl69 says: May 1, 2012 11:45 AM

    We’ve been saying this for years. How many Super Bowls have the Pats won since caught cheating? ‘nough said.

  24. jonny42671 says: May 1, 2012 11:45 AM

    He is 100 percent right. The Saints and the Pats have to cheat to win. Enjoy your Tainted Championships!!

  25. bobbyhoying says: May 1, 2012 11:45 AM

    Ethical people are mocked. Cheaters defended. What has become of our culture?

  26. rexismybff says: May 1, 2012 11:45 AM

    Asterisk City. Manny, Big Pappi, SpyGate, Clemens – you can’t spell “Boston” without “cheat”.

  27. olcap says: May 1, 2012 11:46 AM

    I don’t think NFL.com would make Harbaugh’s accusations a headline.

  28. nflfan1 says: May 1, 2012 11:46 AM

    Like you needed to give Coach BB and Brady an excuse to run the score up on you next time you play. One win in SEVEN games Harbaugh. Stop with the excuses already. He’s a better coach than you with a better TEAM. Stop your whining, stop talking about other teams and start to worry about your own team and actually making it to a Superbowl.

  29. tombradyallday says: May 1, 2012 11:47 AM

    only thing stained are Lee Evans hands and cundiffs kicking leg

  30. dvdman123 says: May 1, 2012 11:47 AM

    Finally someone has the “you know what” to speak the truth. The Patriot’s title should all have astericks by them…….they cheated and admitted to it. End of story.

  31. bearsrulepackdrool says: May 1, 2012 11:47 AM

    Hmmm. Since spygate. The Ravens have only beaten the Pats once. Yea, that explains it all.

  32. shellm1 says: May 1, 2012 11:48 AM

    Patriots / Saints 4 stained Lomabardis, Harbaugh 0… just saying.

  33. ducksouped says: May 1, 2012 11:48 AM

    All these haters. If I got caught cheating I would be bitter too. How many SB’s does new england have since they stopped cheating?

  34. sj39 says: May 1, 2012 11:48 AM

    He’s right and everyone knows it.

  35. democratsarestupid says: May 1, 2012 11:49 AM

    I think he said what everybody in the league already thinks and is scared to say. However, he should of kept his mouth shut. You never want to give Brady any motivation

  36. frankrizzo51 says: May 1, 2012 11:49 AM

    Things have been nice and quiet without the Crybaby Family running their mouths.

  37. bearsrulepackdrool says: May 1, 2012 11:49 AM

    What ever helps you get over Billy Cundiff’s missed, chip shot, field goal, Coach.

  38. mialto says: May 1, 2012 11:49 AM

    I sure hope Brady and Bel are paying attention, this is an attack, and treat it as such. Next game prediction Patriots 47 Ravens 3

  39. bucrightoff says: May 1, 2012 11:52 AM

    But having a guy commit murder and become Super Bowl MVP is totally acceptable, right John?

  40. beerbaron says: May 1, 2012 11:52 AM

    September 23rd, MF’er. I don’t want to hear any complaining about running up the score.

    If we’re lucky we’ll get to knock you out of the playoffs again, too. God I can’t wait for the season to start.

  41. marcinhouston says: May 1, 2012 11:53 AM

    A couple years ago Suggs admitted on the radio the Ravens had bounties on Mendenhall and Ward in a game in which Mendenhall was seriously injured, and said they could not get to Ward between the whistles unfortunately. Then he later denied it and said he just meant it as a figure of speech. The Ravens division titles are probably tainted too, to the extent they have won any.

  42. mdnjdevil says: May 1, 2012 11:54 AM

    Where did he whine, lie, or exagerrate the truth?

    He says a couple of things and all of you whiny New England fanboys come out of the wood work to express your butthurt feelings on the internet. Keep that Boston stereotype alive boys and girls…

  43. siggtacular says: May 1, 2012 11:54 AM

    Harbaugh is right. The AFC North is a class division with first class organizations. The Saints and the Patriots titles will ALWAYS be stained. That’s the simple truth, and Pats fans can kiss it, everyone knows the Ravens were the superior team, and the Pats got lucky. Too bad luck can’t help Brady beat Eli!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

  44. thesaint257 says: May 1, 2012 11:54 AM

    I am not a Pats fan (Seattle Fan- I know….yeah)
    but this doesn’t make sense to me.

    If the Pats were such horrible cheaters that helped them win the Superbowl, why didn’t they win the Superbowl in 2002,2005,2006, and we all know about 07′ season. More importantly, everyone says they haven’t won since they’ve been busted but didn’t that still win 18 straight games? lost the Superbowl by three (Asante Samuels drop a pick to win the game) and didn’t they just make it to the Superbowl with the second worst defense and it took either a dropped Welker pass or an amazing Eli pass down the sideline to decide the outcome? They still got there.

    I hate New England with a passion but I wish my team had three titles and more importantly I wish my team were in the mix for the title every year. Brady’s numbers have nothing to do with film. Every team did what New England did, hell I hope we do it to get one more win under sorry as Pete Carrol.

    I am anti 49er’s obviously but Harbaugh maybe barking up the wrong tree on this

  45. edgarallan926 says: May 1, 2012 11:55 AM

    Comment from someone who actually works in/for the NFL, not you people who troll on these boards looking for a reason to discredit teams and speculatively say the Pats will score 50 points next time (same people who said they would score 50 and win by 20 in the AFC Championship game):

    Albert Breer (NFL Network/ Former Pats beat writer): ‘Uproar over Harbaugh comments on NE is why NFL people don’t say anything anymore…He stated the obvious, and it’s seen as outrageous’

    The NFL is an entertainment business so therefore this is “news” when these comments are made about a controversy called ‘spygate’. Of course it’s stained. People will bring up that controversy, as well as the bounties for a long time to come.

    Why do you think players like Barry Bonds, who would have been a no doubt Hall of Famer without cheating, will never be in Cooperstown??

    Get a clue, none of us have ever seen a private team meeting and never will. This will have little or no bearing on the outcome of the game this year.

  46. footballchamp says: May 1, 2012 11:55 AM

    What a total fraud this guy is. Hey listen, just cause your kicker couldn’t beat the Pats (The PATS! With their terrible defense!!) don’t start crying about cheating holding you back.

    You’ve had enough time to get it together. Too bad the Steelers keep getting you!!

  47. coltsluckdynasty says: May 1, 2012 11:55 AM

    I dont like the pats anymore than the next guy, and steroids do have their advantages. Wait a second, f the pats, f the ravens, f the steelers… Like luck said, the most storied franchise in the NFL is the colts…. Lol, never cheated, never cried (except peyton when he would choke) always been classy… All you guys can do is hate the colts, and say something about mayflower trucks… Stay classy fans, you could learn a little something from peytonsneck….. :)

  48. haleyistheman00 says: May 1, 2012 11:56 AM

    Nobody thinks they are tainted beside stupid eagle, panthers, and rams fans. Get over it, he is still pissed that the pats beat em when he was with the eagles. Mcnabb throwing up lol

  49. marima07 says: May 1, 2012 11:57 AM

    What a coward. Harbaugh throws it out there that the Ravens have been victimized by other teams’ cheating but wont’ say who.

    If he has evidence that the Patriots tampered with Billy Cundiff’s cleats he should just come out with it. Otherwise – take the loss like a man.

  50. nineroutsider says: May 1, 2012 11:57 AM

    Let the fans and talking heads say these things for you; coaches shouldn’t be engaging in this type of banter.

    I don’t think saying this stuff looks good and more importantly it really does nothing for you. Show us on the field; everything that needs to be said can be said there. Tell Bill privately what you think of what they’ve done, but don’t do it in the media. Like I said the talking heads and fans have their opinions of the Patriots that may last for decades and some HOF voters will remember it as well.

  51. cannonballdookie says: May 1, 2012 11:57 AM

    And for the very first time, I like John Harbaugh.

  52. watermelon1 says: May 1, 2012 11:57 AM

    Couldn’t the Ravens have kept Rex Ryan if they wanted a coach that talked about stuff that doesn’t matter to the media?

    Looks like their excuse for letting go of the one guy who had his unit doing their job… Is out the window. Meanwhile thry’ll keep Harbaugh and his horrible special teams, and cameron and his horrible offense.

  53. tomtravis76 says: May 1, 2012 11:57 AM

    To be the man you have to beat the man. Harbs knows, at least in the short term, the Ravens have passed by the Steelers and the sites are set on the Patriots to get to the Super Bowl.

  54. yelix says: May 1, 2012 11:58 AM

    You people are acting like the Ravens didn’t stand a chance in the AFC Championship game. They were a stupid dropped catch and missed field goal away from embarrassing the Patriots in Foxborough.

    Harbaugh is saying what a lot of us are thinking, but an NFL head coach really should shy away from saying things like that on the record. I like both of the Harbaughs, but I won’t deny that they both can get a little unprofessional at times.

  55. dvdman123 says: May 1, 2012 11:58 AM

    There is no proof that “bountygate” ever gave the New Orleans Saints any competitive advantage whereas we all know ‘spygate” did in fact give the New England Patriots a competitive advantage. I’m still trying to figure out how the Patriots were only penalized a 1st round draft pick.

  56. knucklebucket says: May 1, 2012 11:58 AM

    Sounds as though someone is still bitter about getting beat by a depleted and underachieving defense. Maybe John should focus on getting a kicker that can kick and a receiver that can hold on to the ball in the endzone. Just sayin…

  57. myspaceyourface says: May 1, 2012 11:59 AM

    I can’t stand the Ravens, but what Harbaugh speaks is “Truth”

    If we put our team loyalties to the side for a moment and evaluate the situation, what the Pats did was a far greater danger to the long term NFL game than what the Saints did.

    Why do you think spygate was swept under the carpet and evidence destroyed within 24 hours?

  58. seanpbeck says: May 1, 2012 11:59 AM

    And the only title won by the Ravens is stained with the blood of the 2 men Ray Lewis let die in the street.

  59. meepein says: May 1, 2012 12:00 PM

    If I may, I would love to offer advice to Mr Harbaugh:

    Instead of complaining about something that happened FIVE years ago, how about, oh I don’t know, calling a timeout so your kicker is not rushing onto the field as the play clock runs down, so that he might actually have a chance to make the kick to send the AFC Championship Game into OT. Or, as a certain coach might say, ‘Do your job.’

  60. jimr9999us says: May 1, 2012 12:01 PM

    The U.S. was built on the backs of cheats and thieves.

    That’s why we have football and everyone else has to watch soccer.

  61. phinfan says: May 1, 2012 12:01 PM

    John Harbaugh = Rex Ryan v2

  62. rc33 says: May 1, 2012 12:01 PM

    Sounds like somebody really wanted Dont’a Hightower.

    Grow up schleprock.
    Spygate happened 5 years ago.

  63. pooflingingmonkey says: May 1, 2012 12:01 PM

    When did football coaches begin to feel the need to become our moral compasses?

    Shut up and play (or coach).

  64. k0mbucha says: May 1, 2012 12:01 PM

    Can’t say I am a fan of Harbaugh or the Ravens, but he does have a valid point. Glad to see he had the cojones to say it.

  65. richards5220 says: May 1, 2012 12:02 PM

    People who call Ray Lewis a murderer.. Lol get some facts.. Neither him or the two guys he supposedly gave s ride were convicted. NE fans you really think the ravens are worried about getting crushed by the pats, team full of vaginas..

  66. hebertespinosa says: May 1, 2012 12:02 PM

    Harbaugh is learning some good trash talking lately. Keep it up, coach.

  67. pjamdragon says: May 1, 2012 12:02 PM

    He’s not happy NE jumped them in draft…again
    Find the mole

  68. lionsplayoffs says: May 1, 2012 12:03 PM

    23-20

  69. jade amor says: May 1, 2012 12:03 PM

    I am not going to defend New England, but I have 2 thoughts on this.

    1) The footage on the tapes, wasnt what they were penalized for. Taping opponents signals, was not a violation of any rule, until after 2007. The rule that they violated WASNT taping signals, it was taping from the sidelines. If they were taping from an “approved location”, it would have been legal. I dont understand the concept that taping from the sidelines helped them, but taping from the stands didnt (because if taping from the stands helped them it also would have been illegal, but it wasnt, right?).

    2) The reason the Pats fans defend the actions as “not cheating” is all based on how you want to define “cheating”. Personally, I think calling it “cheating” is way over stating it. Circumventing the salary cap is cheating. Paying off officials is cheating. You get the point. Pats fans see the penalty as a violation of the rules. Holding is a violation of the rules, but it isnt cheating, is it? Hitting a defenseless receiver is a violation of the rules, but it isnt cheating, is it?

    Can those that hate the Pats understand what the Pats fans are saying, when they defend the Pats. If you want to consider it “cheating”, you have every right to your opinion, but if you are going to call them cheaters for violating a rule, you have to also say that every rule violator is also a cheater. You cant pick and choose which rules violations are designated as cheating, and which arent. There is not a player in the NFL that has never violated a rule. There is not a coach in the NFL that has never violated a rule. Just saying…

  70. macbull says: May 1, 2012 12:03 PM

    You just know when someone starts this kind of dialog, it is not going to end well for the one doing the talking…John Harbaugh.

    The Ravens do play the Patriots in week 3 of the 2012 season…might want to tune in for that game.

  71. Patskrieg dot com says: May 1, 2012 12:04 PM

    Somebody explain to me how Terrell Suggs turned out to be the most mature dude in the Ravens organization.

    The Ravens have been victimized alright, by poor discipline, poor receivers, poor quarterback grading, poor place kicking, and a perennial “this is everyone’s fault but ours” mentality.

  72. kathyisintheroom says: May 1, 2012 12:04 PM

    Oh How I dislike that immature brat John Harbaugh, and the mouthy fans of the one-good-season-a decade 49ers.

    But I love his comments, and it is what most fans outside of Chowderville USA believe also.

    There will always be asterisks attached to the Patriots, ALWAYS. I know they will try to spin this about the Saints, but New Orleans did not cheat, N.E. did.

    One last thing New Englanders, ENUNCIATE!
    Horse is not Hawse
    Cars is not Caws
    Use the R !!!!!

  73. steelersmichele says: May 1, 2012 12:05 PM

    Warrenmoon, when will you and others realize 7lombardi guy ISN’T a steelers fan. He posts to get a reaction and you give him what he wants.

    Considering my team was continuously beaten by the patriots in AFC games before spygate came out, I have to admit I let it go. We can’t go back and replay those games, so I’ve moved on. Not sure why Harbaugh is concerned. I am guessing he avoided the saints bountygate scandal since members of his team admitted on a radio station they had bounties on some steelers. Guess he needed to deflect that attention.

  74. rc33 says: May 1, 2012 12:08 PM

    …whereas we all know ‘spygate” did in fact give the New England Patriots a competitive advantage.
    ————————–

    We do, huh?
    Prove it.
    Aikman, Howie Long, Boomer Esiason and others have said the exact opposite. Not useful or translatable during the course of a game.

    Denver and S.F were fined draft picks and $100K a day for circumventing the cap during their their SB winning years. But as always, that doesn’t count.

  75. bray72 says: May 1, 2012 12:08 PM

    @ warrenmoon says:
    May 1, 2012 11:43 AM
    7thlombardisontheway will be posting this soon…

    6 rings is > you… jealous?

    But if there is asterisks next to anyone’s superbowls, it is all 6 of the Steelers. There is a questionable call or scandal that go them all of there wins. The fairest game was ARZ but even then there was awful “missed” calls. Let’s not forget the immaculate reception and the steroid abusers that made the 70′s Steelers. The only reason I am ripping them right now is because of 7thlombardi guy. We all know he will be posting as soon as he gets out of school.
    ******************************************

    This story is interesting, and perhaps worthy of a comment, but tell me what it has to do with the Steelers.
    Your comment is close to being as silly as the that of the one you’re slamming – aand he didn’t even make it. It’s especially silly since you must know that every game has blown calls ON BOTH SIDES – but only the losers complain. The winners have just overcome the blown calls against them.
    Perhaps you are the one who skipped school today yourself.

  76. kevpft says: May 1, 2012 12:09 PM

    Not the most elegant way to say it, but they don’t pay coaches to be elegant.

    He’s right in a sense, that if you cross the line, it will always be associated with you. Belichick is no question one of the best coaches ever, and his titles and success are fully legit. But no matter what accolades he’ll get, he’ll be remembered in part for the scandal. It will never go away or be completely separated from his name.

    That’s what I take from Harbaugh’s words – that when something like that happens, you can never fully detach yourself from it, and the only way to avoid that is to follow the rules (or “use them” as he says).

    On a side note, I don’t get all the complaints in the comments here and elsewhere splitting hairs about quotes from coaches. Do we want them all to be bland and colorless, or do we want characters in the NFL? I vote for characters, the kinds that aren’t hurting anyone else.

  77. sclement65 says: May 1, 2012 12:09 PM

    He didn’t talk about the Saints, cause they didn’t cheat. IDIOTS.

  78. marima07 says: May 1, 2012 12:09 PM

    The Colts, classy? Piping in crowd noise was just gamesmanship, right? And I’m guessing deliberately throwing games in 2009 was merely strategy. Toss in the 2011 suck for Luck campaign and you’ve hit the no-class trifecta.

    The Colts’ Bill Polian chapter of being a good sport earn a mention too: Yelling from the press box for his defense to break Doug Flutie’s leg, along with using his position on the Competition Committee to re-emphasize the enforcement of the pass interference rules to benefit his own quarterback. Nothing but fairness and Tony Dungy halos in Indy’s past.

  79. mdagnew1 says: May 1, 2012 12:10 PM

    Ok…here is the rub, he’s 100 percent right but why even go there? Its just plain stupid. He and Flacco ought to just shut up and play football.

    I am a Ravens fan and have been one since 96′…

  80. sourdough says: May 1, 2012 12:10 PM

    Simple lesson here: Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time Patri*ts.

  81. saints25 says: May 1, 2012 12:11 PM

    Man These Harbaugh coaches are a bunch of crybabies.His WR dropped a pass an lost the games,now he’s blaming it on cheating,because Lee Evans cant catch? Was he even a coach when the Pats won their 3 championships?

  82. rahavort says: May 1, 2012 12:12 PM

    Figures, leave it to a conference rival to take the low road, talk about a team that has NO relevance to the question asked. Harbaugh is still pissed his team couldn’t get it done in the playoffs last season, so this is his inner-child tantrum about it. Not siding with the Pats because the Ravens could AND would have beat them in Gillette. But John….let the past go and stop being a crybaby

  83. kokoskmr says: May 1, 2012 12:13 PM

    Harbs, here’s a Protip: don’t get into a controversy you can’t “win”.

    This is a better response: “The Ravens team and organization take the rules of the NFL seriously and we do whatever we can, within the spirit and the letter of those rules, to win championships”.

  84. sportsinhd says: May 1, 2012 12:13 PM

    Good for Harbaugh, he’s absolutely right.

  85. kevpft says: May 1, 2012 12:13 PM

    dvdman123 says:
    May 1, 2012 11:58 AM
    There is no proof that “bountygate” ever gave the New Orleans Saints any competitive advantage whereas we all know ‘spygate” did in fact give the New England Patriots a competitive advantage.

    ===============

    We all know that? What is the specific advantage they got? Be very specific, and factual.

    As for the Saints, look no further than their NFC championship game with the Vikes. Did Favre expect to receive a steady supply of vicious late hits – blatantly more intense than normal – and do you think it didn’t affect the game’s outcome? And do you believe the large pile of money offered before the game had no effect on that unusual player behavior?

  86. bostonhasrealhockey says: May 1, 2012 12:15 PM

    Still have those 3 rings and i dont see any asterisks anywhere do you?

  87. wiley16350 says: May 1, 2012 12:15 PM

    i also want to add that the writer of the article has a listening comprehension problem or just wants to spread falsehoods. The first paragraph is a complete fabrication or complete misunderstanding of what Harbaugh said. I am a Patriots fan, so I am not even trying to stick up for Harbaugh. It’s just irritating when media types lie or show poor comprehension skills.

  88. siaaa says: May 1, 2012 12:16 PM

    the pats benefited more from their cheating scandal on the field than the saints. It somehow helped them win a couple of titles. wasnt the only reason they might have won without the films, but it helped. As for the saints theres one play that proves the bounty thing was a joke and thats Marshawn Lynch’s run over the entire saints defense in the playoffs a couple of years ago.

  89. gingerkid2000 says: May 1, 2012 12:16 PM

    Harbaugh seriously needs to move on because I can’t believe he’s still whining about this??? He is displaying the most pathetic griping by a coach I’ve ever seen. It’s like listening to a teenage girl complaining about an ex-boyfriend who cheated on her 4 years ago.

    Get over it John. Just worry about the Ravens trying to even win so much as the AFC. All you look like is a sore loser. I’d make some snide comment about your SB Championships but…

  90. truthfactory says: May 1, 2012 12:16 PM

    Pats fans are funny… as if the rest of the football world is simply supposed to sit quitely and pretend like they didn’t get busted for videotaping defensive signals, and using it to put Brady into plays that would take advantage of the called defense.

    Sorry, a kid can’t be a straight A student, then get busted for cheating, and then act like he would have been an A student even if he hadn’t cheated.

    SB wins are VERY hard to get. 3 SB’s while cheating, 0 without. Don’t say it doesn’t matter… especially since those SB wins came down to the wire and were 3 point games. The extra edge they got in anticipating defensive plays could be the difference in those 3 points.

  91. twentyfivewest says: May 1, 2012 12:17 PM

    K if anyone on the planet thinks that the Pats and the saints are the only teams cheating, you have the IQ of a sack of crap!!! I am not a fan of either team, that’s just the way ALL pro sports are!! Don’t be naive! And harbough should shut it!! He’s mad cause he’s cheating like they are, he’s just not winning SB’s… All pro sports teams cheat!!!

  92. sbelig says: May 1, 2012 12:17 PM

    Blah, blah, blah. No wait, it’s more like Wah, wah, wah.

  93. putyournameonit says: May 1, 2012 12:18 PM

    Harbaugh < Tomlin

  94. ballistictrajectory says: May 1, 2012 12:18 PM

    I’m amazed that the thread got THIS far without:

    “I’d rather have stained titles than stained shorts.”

  95. cmich2006 says: May 1, 2012 12:18 PM

    What a whiny bitch…let me guess the Patriots moved the goal post when Cundiff blew the game…

    PS I hate the Patriots and Belichik but Harbough and the Ravens are right behind them in dis-likeability

  96. tk1966 says: May 1, 2012 12:19 PM

    Wow, warrenmoon. That is an unhealthy obsession you have with another poster, isn’t it? Or is it an obsession with the Steelers (who were not even part of the story)?

  97. 1historian says: May 1, 2012 12:19 PM

    The Patriots got caught stealing the jets’ defensive signals – 1st half 1st game 2007 season. They were told to stop they did. Given how spectacular the issue was – would it not follow that the NFL would keep an extra sharp eye on them? It would. Anything since then? Nada. Zippo. Nothing to report. It’s always fun to make fun of them but the fact is that since then their record is 69-18, aka 79%.

    Accusations about previous titles being ‘stained’ – Much ado about nothing – NEVER proven.

    ‘No Super Bowl titles since then’. So? It’s called getting beaten by a better team, aka the New York damn Giants, and each came down to the last play of the game. They have STILL been in 5 out of the last 11 Super Bowls. Can anyone else make that claim?

    In 10 out of the last 11 seasons they have won at least 10 games, they have been in the playoffs in 9 out of the last 11 seasons,

    Stealing signals? It’s part of the game.

    Pats fans (FYI – I’m a Pats fan) are constantly accused of being obnoxious and arrogant. Speaking for myself I am – GUILTY ON BOTH CHARGES and damn proud of it.

    This is how it is, folks – When the team you root for is successful over a prolonged period of time (not to mention that the public didn’t get socked for the bill for building their stadium) and is once again in the mix for this upcoming season and for the foreseeable future and is unquestionably one of the premier organizations in all of professional sports you tend to get obnoxious and arrogant.

    IN CONCLUSION – We Pats fans (FYI – I am a Pats fan) love our team and being New Englanders we tend to be a little snooty and high-falutin’ which I understand can get under folks’ feathers in an irritating way but for now that’s just the way it is, so I would advise you to get used to it, cuz it shows no sign of ending.

    ‘And we don’t have any linebackers involved in murder cases.’

    Quoth the Raven

  98. redrew says: May 1, 2012 12:19 PM

    Belichick breaks ranks and talks up Harbaugh for the Ravens job with Baltimore ownership….then Harbaugh stabs him in the back. Well done….very Manginiesque

  99. weepingjebus says: May 1, 2012 12:20 PM

    “Here comes Billy Cundiff to tie this game … and in all likelihood send it to overtime. The last two years, 16 of 16 in the 4th quarter on field goals – 32 yards to tie it..annnnd the kick LOOKOUT LOOKOUT It’s no good! It’s no good!”

  100. ravenboy4lyfe says: May 1, 2012 12:20 PM

    Its the truth you cant win games if the other teams cheating “saints rusty steelers patriots”

  101. cali49er707 says: May 1, 2012 12:21 PM

    kathyisintheroom says:
    May 1, 2012 12:04 PM
    Oh How I dislike that immature brat John Harbaugh, and the mouthy fans of the one-good-season-a decade 49ers.

    But I love his comments, and it is what most fans outside of Chowderville USA believe also.

    There will always be asterisks attached to the Patriots, ALWAYS. I know they will try to spin this about the Saints, but New Orleans did not cheat, N.E. did.

    One last thing New Englanders, ENUNCIATE!
    Horse is not Hawse
    Cars is not Caws
    Use the R !!!!!

    just like you hate the 9ER fan base, i equally hate fat over weight women posting things they know nothing about, you are annoying & i dont even know you!!!SHUT DA FUNK ^^ & go cook some jumbalaya!!!!

  102. bloggersarenotjournalists says: May 1, 2012 12:21 PM

    He’s right

    The rest of the world (outside of the hole that is Bastan and the racist scumbags that live there) thinks the same

  103. sj39 says: May 1, 2012 12:21 PM

    kevpft, if you don’t already know what obvious advantages there would be to on offense knowing the defensive play calls then either you are simply a Pat’s homer who can’t admit they cheated or you know very little about football or, most probably, both.

  104. horaceivory says: May 1, 2012 12:21 PM

    Sour grapes

  105. jjbadd says: May 1, 2012 12:21 PM

    That’s bullsh!+! I’m as far away from being a fan of NE as one can get…but they were the best team at that time, and spygate was just blown WAY out of proportion! It wasn’t even that serious. Harbaugh is just a pissy “u” know?

  106. bpfpft says: May 1, 2012 12:21 PM

    The only thing stained is Harbaugh’s ability to perform at the end of big games. Heck, he’s a former special teams coach who couldn’t get his kicker to focus right before the biggest kick of his life!!

  107. marima07 says: May 1, 2012 12:22 PM

    haleyistheman00 says: May 1, 2012 11:56 AM

    Nobody thinks they are tainted beside stupid eagle, panthers, and rams fans. Get over it, he is still pissed that the pats beat em when he was with the eagles. Mcnabb throwing up lol
    ——————-
    Mcnabb couldn’t even complete his throw up right. Just dry heaves.

  108. abr173rd says: May 1, 2012 12:22 PM

    Its so hilarious to hear another coach try to call out other teams in regards to cutting corners. Every time cuts corners some way some how. Harbaugh just lost a ton of respective- Good Luck with Flacco,lol

  109. bvolke says: May 1, 2012 12:22 PM

    *Three Time Champion New England Patriots*

  110. Mr. Wright 212 says: May 1, 2012 12:24 PM

    bearsrulepackdrool says:
    May 1, 2012 11:47 AM
    Hmmm. Since spygate. The Ravens have only beaten the Pats once. Yea, that explains it all.

    ———

    Ahhhhh but the GIANTS have beaten them three out of the four times since — and only failed to win the other one because of a fluky blown coverage late in the game.

    Pats vs. Ravens track record does not nullify his point, so don’t even try it.

  111. dvdman123 says: May 1, 2012 12:24 PM

    This response is for kevpft. They (Patriots)admitted to filming their opponents game preparations/workouts. What do you call that? I call it cheating. As to the Saints, the NFL is NOT touch or flag football. It’s ALL about vicious hits. The playoffs are a totally different animal and play becomes more intense. To believe otherwise is to be in deep denial. You sound like unhappy Vikings fan to me.

  112. bpfpft says: May 1, 2012 12:25 PM

    Try and win something John, then you can trash-talk, sanctimonious jerk. You’re a caretaker who rides Newsome’s and that great personnel staffs coattails.

  113. deathmonkey41 says: May 1, 2012 12:25 PM

    He’d better watch out or Robert Kraft is going to sic his houseboy Roger Goodall on him.

  114. followmarko says: May 1, 2012 12:26 PM

    Says the guy who talked with his brother the entire week before the Steelers played the Niners.

  115. ravenseattheirownpoop says: May 1, 2012 12:26 PM

    Win something first before you open your mouth. All Harbaugh ever does is cry foul. It’s getting old!

  116. rockthered1286 says: May 1, 2012 12:27 PM

    So despite Brady’s absolute incompitence against Baltimore, Pats fans think one comment will suddenly justify Brady putting up 50? Really? Essentially you’re saying “well all those other games he wasn’t playing his hardest but a comment about something from years ago is going to fire him up and he’ll play for real this time.”

    Give me a break… Harbs simply said because of Spygate, they are forever tainted during that period of time. Is what it is. He didn’t say they suck, or didn’t earn their SB trip last year, or cheated in their game, or anything of that nature. He simply answered a question. But by all means Pats fans enjoy your dreams of grandeur thinking the Pats will “put up 50 on Baltimore” and “Flacco better watch his back”…

    Bal- 27
    Pats-20

    See you in the AFC Championship for round 2.

  117. 3menandablog says: May 1, 2012 12:27 PM

    He just stated something obvious. Everyone outside of biased New England fans feels this way.

    Cheaters is the first thing you think about with that team.

  118. Gordon says: May 1, 2012 12:28 PM

    Harbaugh is gonna wake up with a severed horse head in his bed tomorrow.

    A funny aside…the iPhone autocorrects the spelling of “Harbaugh” by suggesting “Garbage”…swear to god.

  119. rpmcanes says: May 1, 2012 12:29 PM

    steelbydesign says:
    May 1, 2012 11:42 AM
    He’s right, and I don’t see why Pats fans get their panties in a bunch when people talk about it. It was PROVEN they were cheating. You can argue it may not have helped them win, but they were still cheating and there’s always that possibility they don’t win if they didn’t cheat.

    Hey jackass, actually they didn’t win in ’00, ’02, ’05, ’06, ’07.
    Sure must’ve helped them. Also, look back at how many game changing INTs and fumble recoveries were made by that D.

  120. bertilfox says: May 1, 2012 12:30 PM

    Jade Armor:

    Don’t try to dissuade people from reveling in their misery by confusing them with facts. Next time they’re pissed off by losing to the Patriots, they won’t be able to have an excuse.

    On another note, Harbaugh is just a petulant whiner on AND off of the sideline. The apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree. Actually, niether one has.

  121. hoosiercolts says: May 1, 2012 12:31 PM

    File this under: He’s just saying what everyone else is thinking.

  122. DailySpew says: May 1, 2012 12:31 PM

    Why even bring this up? As a coach in the NFL, you clearly love the game and the league. With the lockout, concussions, and now the bounty scandal, why dredge up the one black eye in recent memory the NFL actually has fully recovered from?

  123. patriotinvasion says: May 1, 2012 12:31 PM

    Asking how many Super Bowls the Patriots have won since spygate is the most laughable thing you can say. It assumes they have gone 6-10 every year since because they couldn’t tape hand signals in plain view to every person in the stadium. Oh, and they only have the best record in the NFL since 2007, and there were those TWO Super Bowls they were within a play of winning. Congrats to the Giants for outplaying us in both games…but the Pats haven’t exactly been irrelevant since spygate like most haters wish.

  124. 49ers73 says: May 1, 2012 12:33 PM

    Listen the patsies are 0-2 without spygate, 3-0 with it and don’t forget they needed the tuck rule for their first one. Can’t wait for my Niners D to rip appart their little midgets on offense…the run is done patsie fans, time to jump on another bandwagon.

  125. patssth08 says: May 1, 2012 12:33 PM

    Said the guy that was the specials teams coach at the Univ. of Cincinnati when the Patriots were winning super bowls

  126. wiley16350 says: May 1, 2012 12:33 PM

    Harbaugh didn’t claim that the Patriot’s Superbowls should be tainted….He basically said that when you try to stretch the rules or find holes in the rules and get caught and everything comes to light it doesn’t matter whether you benefitted from the rule stretching or not it will be seen as cheating and your success will have an asterik next too it. He said thats why he doesn’t try to do that. He used the Patriots as an example of a team that tried to stretch the rules or find holes in the rules and now has to live with the consequences of being labeled as cheaters and people questioning their success even though they may or may not have gotten much help from what they did. He in no way claimed that he felt that the Patriots championships should be tainted or that the Patriots definately cheated or got a great advantage by what they did. If you can’t see that, then you either didn’t read the article, listen to the interview or have a reading/ listening comprehension problem.

  127. rpmcanes says: May 1, 2012 12:34 PM

    1historian says:
    May 1, 2012 12:19 PM
    The Patriots got caught stealing the jets’ defensive signals – 1st half 1st game 2007 season. They were told to stop they did. Given how spectacular the issue was – would it not follow that the NFL would keep an extra sharp eye on them? It would. Anything since then? Nada. Zippo. Nothing to report. It’s always fun to make fun of them but the fact is that since then their record is 69-18, aka 79%.

    I’m also curious as to why everyone forgets that the Patriots actually caught the Jets doing that to them during a playoff game. The cameraman was simply not allowed to film anymore.

  128. steelerfanjo says: May 1, 2012 12:35 PM

    I hate Harbaugh but he is 100% correct. The Pats should have had to fold as on organization. They chose to cheat, which is 100 times worse than what the Saints did. But Goodell loves the east coast and is a Pats fan.

  129. napoleonblownapart6887 says: May 1, 2012 12:35 PM

    As a Steelers fan, I’d just like to point out how quick people are with the “How many titles you got Jon?” retort…. I know Steelers fans get a lot of flack for talking about six rings (deservedly so), but the fact remains that its not just Steeler fans that have that knee jerk reaction sometimes.

    As you were.

  130. buckyhamm says: May 1, 2012 12:35 PM

    Ouch … the truth hurts !

  131. zackattack006 says: May 1, 2012 12:36 PM

    But again, isn’t John Harbaugh right? Bill Belicheat is a cheater PERIOD!!!

    They should be man enough to return those rings.. Have some pride for once!!!

  132. eagles4thering says: May 1, 2012 12:37 PM

    It’s sad on Harbaugh’s part for even mentioning it, but it goes without saying that the Patriot’s do have asterisks on their titles..

    Just like the Saints

  133. rockthered1286 says: May 1, 2012 12:38 PM

    Wanna really piss off Boston?

    Caps dismantled the Bruins with their top player in Ovechkin barely playing in the last 2 games. And Dale Hunter outcoached Claude Julien.

  134. iargueonline says: May 1, 2012 12:38 PM

    The Ravens have become the leaders at trolling the media and you people eat it up – first Flacco saying he’s the best QB, now Harbaugh making a truthful comment that will get blown out of proportion.

  135. daltonbarker says: May 1, 2012 12:40 PM

    I truly enjoy listening to uneducated fans (homers) discuss something that is not an opinion, but a fact of reality. You can deem it a false perception, but Spygate has brought into question the validity of the Patriots Super Bowl title. It DOES NOT matter if it aided the Patriots in winning those titles, the question, and stain, still lingers on throughout the sports community.

    Harbaugh is not proselytizing to the NFL or the fans, but merely reiterating a widely accepted notion. To disagree with his notion because he has a personal vendetta or is still angry about the playoff lose is ignorant and a petty fool. Harbaugh answered a question with a shared opinion by many across the NFL landscape: Spygate has called into question the legitimacy of the Patriots Rings.

    Obviously, most of you are so blind to your own infatuation with the Patriots and the “Legacy” created the past decade, to ignore the egregious consequences that have reverberated from Spygate.

    Harbaugh just reiterated what most of us think.

  136. u4iadman says: May 1, 2012 12:40 PM

    Have to agree that at least one of the Pats Superbowl wins is tainted. Doesn’t take away from the fact they were a very good team. And I am not even a Pats fan.

  137. flaccounibrow says: May 1, 2012 12:41 PM

    I normally hate Harbaugh, but I have to give the guy credit. He is honest and right on the money with this one.Several coaches including Cowher who spygate directly affected wimped out about criticising the patsies so as not to dishonor the shield. Never thought id say it but thumbs up Harbs

  138. taintedlombardis says: May 1, 2012 12:42 PM

    Astericks? Those super bowls have to be acknowledged to have astericks. Sorry Patriots fans, the trophy case is still empty.

  139. vaphinfan says: May 1, 2012 12:43 PM

    If your not cheating your not trying to win.

    Sincerely,

    Bill Belichick

  140. blondebombr says: May 1, 2012 12:43 PM

    To me you’re a coach who’ll be fire in a few years and will be back coaching special teams.

    ‘To me.’

  141. heyzeus143 says: May 1, 2012 12:46 PM

    haloti ngata meet David decastro

  142. hairpie says: May 1, 2012 12:47 PM

    hahaha! what a baby, just as undisciplined as his team. he couldnt even answer the question without going off on the Pats. Does he think the accomplishments of other teams that taped are “stained” too? or just the teams that beat him. LOL

  143. mistrezzrachael says: May 1, 2012 12:47 PM

    Jeez Johnny…Are you in the middle of your monthly or something? Maybe cramps, hot flashes?

    As if the AFC Champ game didn’t show how weak you are as a head coach??? Getting 2nd guessed much?

    That rant sounds like a dumb [ only kind there is] jet fan…bitter over last 44 years of…nothing!

  144. bayoubauer says: May 1, 2012 12:48 PM

    John Harbaugh = Diet Rex

  145. curtainclosed says: May 1, 2012 12:48 PM

    It’s none of his damn business. He wasn’t the cheated. If anybody has a gripe it’s the Steelers, and the Rams mostly. I think Steelers’ fans have gotten over it. I have. Hairball isn’t happy unless he’s unhappy. All the man does is freakin’ cry.

  146. 49ers73 says: May 1, 2012 12:52 PM

    The patsies are 0-2 without spygate, 3-0 with it, and don’t forget they needed the tuck rule to win their first. Can wait for my niners d to spank all the little midgets they have running around on offence mid December. Run is over, time to jump on another bandwagon patsie fans.

  147. emn081205 says: May 1, 2012 12:52 PM

    Wow, does anyone in NE work? Anytime there is a post regarding one of their teams, the msg boards get flooded with garbage for the next 10 days.

    Harbaugh didn’t say anything bitter towards the Pats, he simply stated the facts, they won 3 SBs and were convicted of spying, he is correct, there are asterisks whether the spying had an outcome or not.

    New England fans please return to work, there are plenty of more pressing news issues to worry about!

  148. theytukrjobs says: May 1, 2012 12:56 PM

    4 of the last 11 super bowls were won by teams confirmed to be cheating during that time period. Kind of sad. There are two things as well to keep in mind about cheaters.

    1) Cheating is a trait. If an organization is willing to break the rules in one instance, believing that they can get away with it, then you can guarantee they will cheat in other ways, are cheating in other ways, and will continue to cheat in other ways if they are certain the benefit outweighs the risk. The only way to truly stop cheating is to have people with values and morals that are more important than winning.

    2) Most cheaters don’t get caught. I’m certain that the Saints were not caught for every cheating thing they did. Just a few. Same with the Patriots. The reason people cheat is that you can usually get away with it. In addition, you can almost guarantee other teams have been cheating as well and getting away with it.

    3) Have any bad teams been caught cheating? Before we dismiss the advantages of cheating organizations we should note that most teams that show their willingness to break the rules are teams that have dramatically turned weak franchises into perennial powerhouses. Makes you wonder.

  149. scrap7681 says: May 1, 2012 12:57 PM

    If you read what he was said, he didn’t say anything disrespectful about either team. He said because of those incidents it has over shadowed the fact that those teams are champions. These things are always gonna be brought up because people can always bring “what if” into the conversation and that’s what the *asterisk means. Me personally, they won and its the past, I’ve moved on and I’m not a fan of either team. But some people will always bring up that they broke the rules, and that’s what taints those championships.

  150. broncsfan72 says: May 1, 2012 12:59 PM

    The Patriots are just good. period. Most teams could have the other teams Playbook with a list of scripted plays and it still wouldn’t matter.

  151. slammincamnewton says: May 1, 2012 1:00 PM

    Where’s all the CHOWDA PAAANTS supporters coming from? Is May 1st the deadline to get over your Super Bowl loss? How come after spygate, New England hasn’t won a Super Bowl? And yeah the Ravens are overrated. Houston will own the AFC for the next 5 years. Go Bills.

  152. patsaintsbroncoscheat says: May 1, 2012 1:02 PM

    The Saints, and Pats are cheaters! No way around it. That said the Harbaughs lick nutsack. Always close but no cigar and they want a cigar soooo bad they taste it daily!

  153. warrenmoon says: May 1, 2012 1:02 PM

    bray72 says:
    May 1, 2012 12:08 PM
    @ warrenmoon says:
    May 1, 2012 11:43 AM
    7thlombardisontheway will be posting this soon…

    6 rings is > you… jealous?

    But if there is asterisks next to anyone’s superbowls, it is all 6 of the Steelers. There is a questionable call or scandal that go them all of there wins. The fairest game was ARZ but even then there was awful “missed” calls. Let’s not forget the immaculate reception and the steroid abusers that made the 70′s Steelers. The only reason I am ripping them right now is because of 7thlombardi guy. We all know he will be posting as soon as he gets out of school.
    ******************************************

    This story is interesting, and perhaps worthy of a comment, but tell me what it has to do with the Steelers.
    Your comment is close to being as silly as the that of the one you’re slamming – aand he didn’t even make it. It’s especially silly since you must know that every game has blown calls ON BOTH SIDES – but only the losers complain. The winners have just overcome the blown calls against them.
    Perhaps you are the one who skipped school today yourself.

    ————————————–

    You must be new to PFT. 7thlombardis on his way to post that exact comment. He posts it every day on every article that has nothing to do with the Steelers. Besides my comment has plenty to do with article. Patriots and Ravens hate the Steelers.

  154. guinsrule says: May 1, 2012 1:04 PM

    Harbaugh’s right, those championships are stained. Everytime someone is caught cheating, people ask “how does it compare to Spygate?” By destroying the tapes, the nfl left it to people to guess how bad the spying was and since people always assume the worst, the Patriots are screwed forever in the realm of public opinion.

  155. clubby1234 says: May 1, 2012 1:06 PM

    Can’t help but notice that nobody is refuting that the Patriots cheated during all 3 Superbowl wins…

  156. electionconfidential says: May 1, 2012 1:07 PM

    I agree with Harbaugh. I think the Patriots got off light and their cheating has never gotten enough attention.

  157. greysolon says: May 1, 2012 1:07 PM

    Props to Harbaugh for publicly saying what every coach in The League says privately. It’s a plain fact that the Patriots’ titles are tainted in the eyes of football fans, players, and coaches everywhere. Argue and whine and say it’s not fair, but it is what it is– and Harbaugh is saying “That’s what cheating gets you.”

  158. JakeDSnake says: May 1, 2012 1:07 PM

    The rule written by the Commissioner’s office prior to the 2006 season (two years AFTER the Patriots 3rd SB victory) stated no team can film from certain areas and use the film during the game.
    Belichick ignored the rule as the film wasn’t used during the game and there was a gentleman’s agreement that the Patriots would stop filming whenever the other team asked.
    Prior to the 2007 season (three years after the last Patriots SB victory), the Commissioner’s office restated the rule so that the mere filming in a restricted area was against the rules. Belichick’s defense was that it didn’t get used during the game (which he in fact used as a defense) had been rendered useless.
    It was Bob Kraft who bailed out Goodell: he said take the 1st rounder (knowing the 1st from SF was going to be much higher anyways), fine the team and fine Belichick (who Kraft, one month later, gave a new contract to).
    Spygate was very much about Kraft setting up his choice as Commissioner as the no-nonsense rules enforcer.
    What some see as cover-up is merely a lack of substance in the first place.

  159. unbreakable02215 says: May 1, 2012 1:08 PM

    You what is sad in all this ? In 07 when everyone
    was questioning the Pats Titles Belichick told his
    team “they don’t think you are that good, you
    didn’t do this right” so they went out and proved
    how good they were by destroying teams ON THE
    FIELD and showing everyone how good they
    TRULY were.

    As far as I’m concerned Harbaugh is another
    Mangini. It was Belichick who called the Ravens
    when Harbaugh was an assistant in Philly and
    recommended him for the job….

    You all suck. Those titles ain’t going NO place.

  160. daboltfan says: May 1, 2012 1:09 PM

    He is embarassing himself just like his team did last year on national television when the played the chargers. Had no business losing like they did just as much as he is butt hurt about not being able to make it to the Superbowl. Ill be the first to say that the chargers are sucking giant balls. But he needs to look at his own team before he can look at the Patriots. The patriots have been in 5 superbowls under Tom Brady and BB. They won three. Spygate happened. The ramifications of it mean more to the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins then they should to the Ravens. All Rbaugh (as opposed to 9baugh) should be worried about is his team getting ready not the filming practices of other teams.

  161. 6ball says: May 1, 2012 1:09 PM

    .

    Nobody’s talking about the abject failure and stupidity of not having your field goal unit at the ready with time running out in a playoff game.

    It was only 22 games into the season……..and your players can’t get on the field? Lol…Lol

    Come home,Rich Kotite, we’re cool.

    .

  162. knn9413 says: May 1, 2012 1:09 PM

    How many teams have gone to the SB after that? For all the stupid raven cry babies out there, Pats have done it twice even though they lost..I am not a Pats fan, but seriously how many teams can claim that?

  163. khuxford says: May 1, 2012 1:09 PM

    I don’t get all this talk about the Pats owning the Ravens. A few years back, they went into the Pats house and sent them packing. They lost to the Pats in this last playoff game because of, not one, but TWO goats responsible for the loss.

    But the one good thing is how many of you people are asking it all to be taken to the field. That’s where stuff should be settled. But what is there, exactly, to settle? Harbaugh didn’t say the cheating is responsible for the Pats wins, but that their wins have been tainted by it. All of the comment threads where Pats fans and Pats haters go back and forth about Spygate PROVES that they’ve been tainted (as in they’re not perceived as they would have been without Spygate).

    Some of you need to relax and argue what is actually said, rather than what your guilty consciences read. And do remember: no matter how hard you defend them here, Bill & Tom aren’t inviting you to go golfing with them.

  164. kjc2287 says: May 1, 2012 1:11 PM

    People are so dumb, this is the rule,

    “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game…All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”

    You can tape coaches signals all you want just not from the sidelines. Any team can still do the same thing the pats were doing just from a different location.

  165. lameasish says: May 1, 2012 1:12 PM

    Why do people keep saying there is an asterisk next to the pats? Look in any NFL book or website where there is information about super bowl wins, there are no asterisks. I’m sure in 20 years when someone looks up superbowls, no one is going to see the comments from d-bags on here that cry out for asterisks.

  166. bosfaninva says: May 1, 2012 1:15 PM

    The Pats: Better than the Ravens before Spygate, and better than the Ravens after Spygate.

    Harbaugh: Bitter loser. Just lost all respect for this clown.

  167. mmmpierogi says: May 1, 2012 1:15 PM

    warrenmoon says: May 1, 2012 11:43 AM

    7thlombardisontheway will be posting this soon…

    6 rings is > you… jealous?

    But if there is asterisks next to anyone’s superbowls, it is all 6 of the Steelers. … Let’s not forget the immaculate reception and the steroid abusers that made the 70′s Steelers. The only reason I am ripping them right now is because of 7thlombardi guy. We all know he will be posting as soon as he gets out of school.

    ***********************************************************

    (1) Steroids were all over the place by the 1970s. If you’re a fan of professional football, you should know this. People who have no link to the Steelers have estimated that nearly half the league was using steroids then. Knowledge of usage was fairly open during the 1970s or 1980s, or became fairly open shortly after, and there was neither policy nor procedure in place to deal with it like there is today. The NFL didn’t ban steroids or begin testing until the late 1980′s when steroid use was apparently peaking in the league. Steroids didn’t have the stigma or negative connotation attached to them in the 1970s that they do now; a lot of players talked about using steroids to manage injury or as a component of their workout regimen, not as a blatant form of cheating or deception where there are obvious questions of integrity or character involved.

    (2) The Steelers were definitely NOT the only team with players who were using steroids or PEDs then – I believe it’s fairly well-established that players on the Cowboys’, Chiefs’, and Raiders’ rosters were also using them, and the list doesn’t end there. Steelers’ players were also not the first to use steroids or PEDs. Sources have steroids or PEDs popping up in the Chargers organization long before they reached Pittsburgh, and long before the Steelers 1970s dynasty years.

    (3) Only a small number of Steelers has actually been linked to steroid or PED usage. Many of the Steelers defensive studs from that era are on record as being pretty adamant about not wanting to have anything to do with steroids. The only Steeler players that have been linked to use of steroids or other PEDs on record (that I’m aware of) include Courson, Mike Webster, Rick Donnalley, Clack, Bleier, Furness, Bradshaw, and Andy Russell. Aside from being short (at least relatively short – given how much people whine about Steelers steroids use in the 1970s), what’s perhaps the most interesting thing about this list? The vast majority of these guys are on the offensive side of the ball (almost all OLs) – they’re not defensive guys, the Steelers trademark of that era. Also, not all of them were even using steroids – some toyed around with what were thought to be other performance enhancing drugs, but which were actually detrimental to performance. Finally, some who were using steroids weren’t even doing it to gain strength – again, many used steroids to help recover from injury. The state of the knowledge at that time was not where it is today – people didn’t know what they were getting into or about the short- or long-term ramifications, just like people then didn’t know the ramifications of brain trauma and concussions.

  168. howiegtr says: May 1, 2012 1:15 PM

    niquebchillin says:
    May 1, 2012 11:41 AM
    He’s right … Pats cheating was worse than the Saints

    —————————————————
    Hmmmm. Worse than the Pats? OK consider this senario:
    I’d rather he broke my legs than beat me in cards. Really? Better call the authorities. I can live with two broken legs, but he beat me in rummy!!!! Dude!!! A mind is a terrible thing to waste..

  169. rufe says: May 1, 2012 1:16 PM

    Oooh, Curran is going to throw a hissy! And Cowherd will use his standard rolling of the eyes with palms to the sky reply. Liked curtainclosed’ reply. Who really thought that (except for pat fans) they were’nt tainted? They were fined and lost a draft pick. That’s called “caught”. No, the everybody does it does’nt work. They cheated. Why would’nt it matter? If they did’nt get caught it would’nt matter. But they did.

  170. saints25 says: May 1, 2012 1:17 PM

    Ravens coach John Harbaugh has released the following statement today:

    “While on the 98 Rock show this morning to talk about the run to honor O.J. Brigance and raise funds for ALS research, I answered a question about playing within the rules and referred to the perception that the Super Bowl championships won by the Patriots and Saints have a stain. My reference was to the perception out there that came as the result of the league’s actions.

    “I could have been more clear that I was referring to those viewpoints. I totally believe that the Patriot and Saint coaches and players earned those championships. Bill (Belichick) and Sean (Payton) both know that.

    “There has been some distortion about what I said.

    “The original tweet indicated I pointed the finger at Bill Belichick and mentioned Bill’s name. I did not. I have so much respect for Coach Belichick and the job he does and has accomplished in his Hall of Fame career. I called him to remind him of my respect for him. I also reached out to Tedy Bruschi, who rightfully defended those Patriot players and coaches on ESPN, to tell him that I agree with him that the Patriots earned every victory.”

  171. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 1:17 PM

    John Harbaugh sure cries a lot.

  172. alewatcher says: May 1, 2012 1:17 PM

    Taping opponents signals is not necessarily illegal – it’s where you tape them from. You could put a guy in the stands on the visitors sideline and tape everything. NE was taping from a location you’re not supposed to tape from.

  173. peezwizz says: May 1, 2012 1:18 PM

    He must of taken some heat because he already had to make a comment about it:

    “While on the 98 Rock show this morning to talk about the run to honor O.J. Brigance and raise funds for ALS research, I answered a question about playing within the rules and referred to the perception that the Super Bowl championships won by the Patriots and Saints have a stain. My reference was to the perception out there that came as the result of the league’s actions.

    “I could have been more clear that I was referring to those viewpoints. I totally believe that the Patriot and Saint coaches and players earned those championships. Bill (Belichick) and Sean (Payton) both know that.

    “There has been some distortion about what I said.

    “The original tweet indicated I pointed the finger at Bill Belichick and mentioned Bill’s name. I did not. I have so much respect for Coach Belichick and the job he does and has accomplished in his Hall of Fame career. I called him to remind him of my respect for him. I also reached out to Tedy Bruschi, who rightfully defended those Patriot players and coaches on ESPN, to tell him that I agree with him that the Patriots earned every victory.”

  174. koolrepetoire says: May 1, 2012 1:18 PM

    I love it! The greatest off-season in modern day NFL history continues. Many of us feel the same way. The Patriots cheated, the Tuck Rule vs. The Raiders was a slap in the Maverick Al Davis’ face, how is Josh McDaniels not banned from the NFL? He was doing the same thing in Denver, Todd Haley while with the Chiefs called him out on it. Not only that have you ever seen or heard of an Offensive Coordinator hired right before the Post-season? Ever? The assistant coaches take jobs after the season. Oh, and they are 0-2 since Spygate. Hmmm.

  175. whodat2 says: May 1, 2012 1:18 PM

    John Harbaugh*

  176. bosfaninva says: May 1, 2012 1:18 PM

    The only asterisk in the sports records is attached to Roger Maris.

    Sorry Pats hater — enjoy another 14-2 season, this one to be capped off by yet another SB victory.

  177. dexterismyhero says: May 1, 2012 1:18 PM

    @marima07 says:May 1, 2012 12:09 PM

    The Colts, classy? Piping in crowd noise was just gamesmanship, right? And I’m guessing deliberately throwing games in 2009 was merely strategy. Toss in the 2011 suck for Luck campaign and you’ve hit the no-class trifecta.
    ==================================
    Never proved about piping noise, that was just Ed Werder piping noise idiot. I don’t even need to comment on the other 2 idiotic rants. Go effoff lil girl.

  178. steviep23 says: May 1, 2012 1:19 PM

    No one will ever be able to separate spy gate from belichick’s legacy.

  179. mike8016 says: May 1, 2012 1:20 PM

    I am surprise some of you are getting mad at him for speaking the truth. The Patriots haven’t one a SuperBowl since they got caught for cheating. You cant fault the man for speaking the truth.

  180. dvdman123 says: May 1, 2012 1:20 PM

    The guy 9Harbaugh) spoke the truth so it’s time to get over it. He didn’t bother discussing the Saints because in his eyes like many they did not cheat. So comparing Bountygate to Spygate is like comparing apples to oranges.

  181. steviemo says: May 1, 2012 1:23 PM

    Hey, Pats, how many rings since Spygate?

    Cheaters.

  182. unbreakable02215 says: May 1, 2012 1:23 PM

    There are 32 teams in the NFL. 31 of them wish
    Belichick was their coach.

  183. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 1:24 PM

    I don’t like the Patriots, but do some of you really mean to tell me that Asante Samuel dropped a game-ending INT in Super Bowl XLII because the Patriots didn’t have cameras? Do you really mean to tell me that Wes Welker dropped a likely game-ending catch in Super Bowl XLVI because the Patriots didn’t have cameras?

    It’s high time for sports fans to stop being fanatics who are ruled by their emotions, and start being ruled by logic. The logic is that the Patriots lost two Super Bowls because of the lack of execution of routine football tasks at critical moments late in the games. Claiming that the Patriots lost two Super Bowls because they didn’t have cameras anymore a classic correlation/causation fallacy.

  184. ravenator says: May 1, 2012 1:24 PM

    Harbs is right, you trolls are wrong.

    Pats are gonna get owned at the Bank and the Steelers will get swept, again.

    Tebow.

  185. patsfanvt says: May 1, 2012 1:25 PM

    The whole haven’t won a super bowl since Spygate argument is ridiculous as the pats obviously have consistently produced super bowl caliber teams regardless. A difference of one play in either one of their two SB appearances since Spygate is the crux of your argument?

    I understand that some may believe the titles are tainted, but to believe that “no SBs since Spygate” is a reason as to why the titles are tainted is so stupid.

  186. jolink653 says: May 1, 2012 1:26 PM

    still bitter about that game last year huh john

    don’t worry you’ll have that beat down coming next season to add to to the list too

  187. pgui88 says: May 1, 2012 1:27 PM

    Harbaugh to Bisciotti: “Honest, they cheated! You shouldn’t fire me! I’m a good coach, I’M A GOOD COACH!!!”

  188. jjmurphy1127d says: May 1, 2012 1:27 PM

    A couple of quick thoughts

    1) Pats record since Spy Gate is 68-20 with two SB appearances

    2) That includes an 11-5 season when Brady went down in 1st quarter of 1st game.

    3) Harbaugh got Ravens job after the 2007 Spy Gate season – according to many, one of the big recommendations to look at the relatively unknown special teams coach came from Bill Belichick. So JH, you wanted Bill to help you when were looking for a HC job post Spy Gate, but you dump on him by going off on a tangent in response to a question about the Saints? Wow.

    4) If you think that you have been victimized by others cheating, do not “stain” everyone else with some blanket & nebulous accusation. Come out and tell us what happened and with whom or say nothing at all.

  189. erikinhell says: May 1, 2012 1:27 PM

    I remember hearing a story about a game in the 80, where a backup QB had been traded. I think it was the Giants that got the QB, and some AFC team had traded him.

    The backup QB was watching the game, and ran to the DC to inform him that the team was using the same signals to call the plays as when he was there. He stayed by the DC all game long and helped him call the defense.

    You only get cheated if you let yourself get cheated. Even baseball teams will change their signals if they suspect the other teams know them. If some DC can’t figure out that the opposing team is calling plays to defeat his specific defense, then that coach is a moron.

  190. Pat MyHog says: May 1, 2012 1:27 PM

    filming a team’s defensive signals from the sideline is illegal but if you film them from the booth or “approved location” it was ok. Are people serious? It’s not like Belichick hired ninja’s to snoop into other team’s facilities and steal they’re playbooks. They filmed another team’s hand signals in front of 100,000 other people and figured out signs by studying the tape in great detail. That’s not cheating, that’s going the extra mile to get a competitive advantage. Taping defensive signals had no effect whatsover on the Patriots defense which carried them to those 3 superbowl victories. Did taping signals help with Ty Law’s INT of Kurt Warner in the superbowl? Did taping signals help the punt block return against the Steelers?

    CALL THE WAHMBULANCE, WE GOT A BUNCH OF CRYBABIES.

    Boston, City of Champions

  191. castleanthrax says: May 1, 2012 1:27 PM

    @sj39:

    He was asking how you can decipher the signals from the game tape during the game in time for it to have a benefit…not asking how could you get a benefit from knowing the plays.

    Don’t mince words just answer his question.

    How do you decipher the signals in time for you to have an advantage during the game…still waiting on that one.

    And why is it OK to still film the sidelines from a designated location? do the signals become masked at the designated location?

    In all seriousness though I believe Harbaugh is stating that of course the titles are tainted, just look at the thread above, some people will never get over it. So what, move on. That goes for us Pats fans as well, let people say what they want, big deal.

    I don’t believe Harbaugh is calling their success into question.

    The league put a memo out in late 2006 about filming from the wrong location (remember, a Jets employee was walked out of gillette doing the very same thing). BB decided to push the issue and got burned against Brutus, aka Mangini. End of story.

  192. mark921129 says: May 1, 2012 1:28 PM

    Cut from the same cloth as his brother. What a tool….

  193. moagecu says: May 1, 2012 1:28 PM

    And the comments on this article are proof that Patriot fans are all idiots.

    I do love all the “owning” comments. I’m pretty sure I visited Foxboro in 2009 playoffs and watched as all the fair weather fans left the stadium in the 3rd quarter.

    Delusional much?

  194. dwb564 says: May 1, 2012 1:29 PM

    Waaaaaaaaaahhh…………… Go cry your purple tears elsewhere. And take your stupid team with you.

  195. rtookey says: May 1, 2012 1:30 PM

    Isn’t Ray Lewis a murderer that isn’t in prison because a witness magically decided not to take the stand… I think paying a witness to not testify would also be considered cheating…

  196. philtration says: May 1, 2012 1:33 PM

    yelix says: May 1, 2012 11:58 AM

    You people are acting like the Ravens didn’t stand a chance in the AFC Championship game. They were a stupid dropped catch and missed field goal away from embarrassing the Patriots in Foxborough.
    =====================================

    “Almost” only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

    Congratulations on your moral victory.
    Do you know another name for moral victories?
    Losing.

  197. bosfaninva says: May 1, 2012 1:34 PM

    “49ers73 says: May 1, 2012 12:33 PM

    Listen the patsies are 0-2 without spygate, 3-0 with it and don’t forget they needed the tuck rule for their first one. Can’t wait for my Niners D to rip appart their little midgets on offense…the run is done patsie fans, time to jump on another bandwagon.”

    I pity this toolbag if he’s older than, oh, 11.

  198. thefirstweaponofchoice says: May 1, 2012 1:35 PM

    The truth hurts. The Harbaugh’s are great coaches. They know how to win respectfully. Not like billacheat. And this is coming from a seahawk fan.

  199. michaeloptv says: May 1, 2012 1:36 PM

    I’m a Patriots fan. I agree that what the Patriots did was wrong. But first off, it wasn’t all the years was “Spygate” an issue. Perhaps the last one (SB39) but the other ones were won fair and square.

    The Patriots paid the price. We gave up draft picks and money for our issues. Was our ‘penalty’ weak compared to the Saints….possibly. But it was a totally different animal. The Patriots never harmed a human’s life. The Saints almost did.

    As for Harbaurgh: He’s bitter. He joins the mast of Rex Ryan. Go have some beer with that jackass and find ways to finally beat the Patriots while Bill Belicheck and Tom Brady drink some champagne somewhere in Boston.

    Sh*t happens. Deal with it like a man.

  200. peachyc39 says: May 1, 2012 1:36 PM

    Funny…I don’t recall JIM Harbaugh’s name being mentioned…sooooo easy for you guys to hate on the niners every chance you get isn’t it…lol…we’ll see who has the last laugh when our 1 hit wonder team of a decade takes the field this year.

  201. moagecu says: May 1, 2012 1:37 PM

    Pats fans will all disappear when Brady retires and they suck again.

  202. bobhpine says: May 1, 2012 1:38 PM

    John harbaugh is a champion*

    *billy Cundiff

  203. peachyc39 says: May 1, 2012 1:39 PM

    And as I recall…JIM Harbaugh when asked to comment on our players being targeted specifically by the Saints chose to take the high road on that topic. Actually our own GM, classy guy that he is defended “psycho Williams”. So let’s talk about the “brother” in question can we do that please people????

  204. bosfaninva says: May 1, 2012 1:40 PM

    There will be no asterisks on BB’s and Brady’s HOF busts! Enjoy your visits to Canton, haters!

  205. moagecu says: May 1, 2012 1:40 PM

    Go have some beer with that jackass and find ways to finally beat the Patriots while Bill Belicheck and Tom Brady drink some champagne somewhere in Boston.
    _____

    Finally like in 2009 playoffs? That wasn’t embarrasing for the Patriots at all was it.

  206. Hammerjacker says: May 1, 2012 1:41 PM

    truthfactory says:
    May 1, 2012 12:16 PM
    Pats fans are funny… as if the rest of the football world is simply supposed to sit quitely and pretend like they didn’t get busted for videotaping defensive signals, and using it to put Brady into plays that would take advantage of the called defense.

    Sorry, a kid can’t be a straight A student, then get busted for cheating, and then act like he would have been an A student even if he hadn’t cheated.

    SB wins are VERY hard to get. 3 SB’s while cheating, 0 without. Don’t say it doesn’t matter… especially since those SB wins came down to the wire and were 3 point games. The extra edge they got in anticipating defensive plays could be the difference in those 3 points.
    ———————————————–

    Exactly your right, they ARE very hard to get. Which is why it is not relevant that they havent won another since. But if you want to play that tired old line thats find, they DO have an undefeated regular season, two super bowl appearances(within inches of winning both)and are always near the top of the league each year. Better than what? 90 percent of the league? Not too bad huh, naw they need cheeeeetz to win!!!

    Idiots.

    PS- As usual PFT took something out of context(even though Harbaugh in a round about way asked them not to in the very statement the article is on. Can you guys focus on football, and leave gossip to the TMZ?

  207. patssox says: May 1, 2012 1:43 PM

    You are just not terribly bright if you believe the Pats only had success because of some perceived benefit received from filming coaches’ signals.

    Filming Years/Record:
    2000/5-11 (Drew Bledsoe)
    2001/11-5 Superbowl
    2002/9-7 (hey…still filming here…)
    2003/14-2 Superbowl
    2004/14-2 Superbowl
    2005/10-6 (nope…haven’t stopped filming yet…)
    2006/12-4

    After Filming (stopped at least prior to Game 2 in 2007):
    2007/16-0 (with zero filming! hello!)
    2008/11-5 (like 2001 w/OUT Tom Brady)
    2009/10-6 (like 2005)
    2010/14-2 (like 2003, 2004)
    2011/13-3 (better than 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006)

    For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.

    If you still believe your own discombobulated logic that the Pats only found success due to filming signals, you are none too bright! The facts speak for themselves, though I imagine facts don’t help some of you very much.

  208. moagecu says: May 1, 2012 1:43 PM

    rtookey says:
    May 1, 2012 1:30 PM
    Isn’t Ray Lewis a murderer that isn’t in prison because a witness magically decided not to take the stand… I think paying a witness to not testify would also be considered cheating…
    ____

    Go do research before sounding like an idiot.

  209. j0esixpack says: May 1, 2012 1:49 PM

    Add Harbaugh to the list of NFL players and coaches who only humiliate themselves with their ignorance. Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner recently made fools out of themselves too when they admitted they didn’t get the Herald’s retraction of the Matt Walsh story.

    The previous coach of the Ravens is on the record stating that what Belichick did was the norm, as he understood NFL rules authorizing the filming of signal calling.

    Someone should ask Harbaugh why he still has his coordinators cover their mouths when calling in plays if the Patriots were the only one “cheating” way back in 2007 (and “cheating” regarding a rule that was only created in 2006!)

    No one expects football coaches to be smart outside of football – but at the very least they could try to learn their own sport’s rules.

  210. realdealsteel says: May 1, 2012 1:50 PM

    The Harbaugh boys continue to show why they are the most classless coaches in the league.

    Bellichek is the one who went and lobbied for John Harbaugh to get the coaching job in Baltimore.

    I wonder is it “stained” on how the Patriots keep whipping the Ravens butts everytime they meet?
    And since both these guys act this way, it is a clear indication on how they were raised.

    Harbaugh boys = No Class.

  211. realdealsteel says: May 1, 2012 1:55 PM

    Also,

    As a Steeler fan..it will be my pleasure and duty to see that John won’t have to worry about playing the Patriots anymore in the post season. We will sweep the Ravens this year and in week# 3, the Patriots are now going to make it their buisness to put that loss on the Ravens. Wow..the Ravens already have three losses for the coming season. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy or team. Can’t wait!

  212. dreamicus says: May 1, 2012 1:58 PM

    @rtookey

    How old are you, 12? What witness did not testify? Even the district attorney for Atlanta stated Ray Lewis did not kill anyone. The law in Georgia allowed for anyone involved in a fight where someone dies to be charged with murder. Again, they stated as much when they announced the charges.

    Read the transcript from the case and you see there was a mele of at least 20 people instigated and started by the group the victims were in. Only Ray Lewis and the two people they actually believe committed the murders were charged. Not anyone else in the victims group or Ray Lewis’s. Furthermore, many of the prosecutors witnesses were discredited on the stand.

    So, to answer your question, Ray Lewis is not a murderer. If you go back and look even the Atlanta DA at the time, in an election year, stated they did not believe Ray Lewis murdered anyone. Only that he was involved in a fight with over 20 people where the other group had at least one gun and fired at Ray Lewis’s car as they drove off.

    If the state of Georgia does not think Ray Lewis murdered anyone please show me what proof you have the rest of the word does not.

  213. Steeler's Will says: May 1, 2012 2:01 PM

    kathyisintheroom says:
    May 1, 2012 12:04 PM
    Oh How I dislike that immature brat John Harbaugh, and the mouthy fans of the one-good-season-a decade 49ers.
    ——————–
    Wrong Harbaugh, Ma’am.

  214. flash1283 says: May 1, 2012 2:02 PM

    khuxford says: May 1, 2012 1:09 PM

    I don’t get all this talk about the Pats owning the Ravens. A few years back, they went into the Pats house and sent them packing. They lost to the Pats in this last playoff game because of, not one, but TWO goats responsible for the loss.

    ——-

    Really, Ravens record vs NE—1-7.

    Yes, the Patriots own the Ravens!

  215. eggersthejerk says: May 1, 2012 2:04 PM

    “Even the thing in New England, no matter whether those things had any impact on whether they won their championships or not, they got asterisks now, it’s been stained…”

    ………………………………………………………………………

    Very true.

    Cheating is the only way Boston teams in football & baseball can win titles recently.

    For years Red Sox fans claimed that the Yankees championship titles of the ’90s were “tainted” because of several key players being on the “juice”. And how the BoSox 2 titles were “clean” since no key Boston players on those teams were “roided” up according to the infamous Mitchell Report.

    Of course we all later came to find out that there were indeed key BoSox players from those teams juicing & that it appears that Senator Mitchell didn’t try very hard to find out which Sox players were cheating… which isn’t very surprising since Mitchell was a board member of the Boston team.

    Let’s see either the Red Sox or the Patsys win titles without some form of shady “help”. Not surprising that neither has been able to do so since their past cheating was revealed & people are now keeping a closer eye on them both.

  216. vikesfansteve says: May 1, 2012 2:05 PM

    They absolutely cheated and it helped them win. Brady knew the blitzes that were coming and which receiver was the hot read and would be open for a huge gain. The Saints don’t compare because it was the refs who need to be held accountable for allowing dirty plays to happen right in front of them and not flagging it.

  217. rtk23 says: May 1, 2012 2:08 PM

    Warrenmoon….

    Finally, a reasonable person.

    ALL the steelers rings are tainted. Their whole o line from the 70s are all just about dead from roids. One title came from when Brady was hurt. Never woulda won that one if Brady plays. They’ve never went thru NE to win a title. Harrison steps outta bounds during cards SB. So basically they beat two crappy teams in the rapelisberger era…Seahawks and cards.
    And Hairball, what a wuss. NE will stomp you this season and the bengals will stomp you twice on Sunday. Make that once on Sunday and once on Monday.

  218. marima07 says: May 1, 2012 2:08 PM

    In “The Brady Six” Brian Billick is on film telling the backup QB to make sure he records the defensive plays, along with down and distance, to see if they can spot any trends.

    All the Patriots did was streamline that process – record signal, scoreboard (for down and distance) and cheerleaders (for pleasure).

    The all-important league memo didn’t come out until 2006 and the Pats’ camera was confiscated in the first half of the first quarter of 2007. How did that taint the three Super Bowls again???

  219. bozosforall says: May 1, 2012 2:12 PM

    1historian says:
    May 1, 2012 12:19 PM
    The Patriots got caught stealing the jets’ defensive signals – 1st half 1st game 2007 season. They were told to stop they did. Given how spectacular the issue was – would it not follow that the NFL would keep an extra sharp eye on them? It would. Anything since then? Nada. Zippo. Nothing to report. It’s always fun to make fun of them but the fact is that since then their record is 69-18, aka 79%.

    Accusations about previous titles being ‘stained’ – Much ado about nothing – NEVER proven.

    ‘No Super Bowl titles since then’. So? It’s called getting beaten by a better team, aka the New York damn Giants, and each came down to the last play of the game. They have STILL been in 5 out of the last 11 Super Bowls. Can anyone else make that claim?

    In 10 out of the last 11 seasons they have won at least 10 games, they have been in the playoffs in 9 out of the last 11 seasons,

    Stealing signals? It’s part of the game.

    Pats fans (FYI – I’m a Pats fan) are constantly accused of being obnoxious and arrogant. Speaking for myself I am – GUILTY ON BOTH CHARGES and damn proud of it.

    This is how it is, folks – When the team you root for is successful over a prolonged period of time (not to mention that the public didn’t get socked for the bill for building their stadium) and is once again in the mix for this upcoming season and for the foreseeable future and is unquestionably one of the premier organizations in all of professional sports you tend to get obnoxious and arrogant.

    IN CONCLUSION – We Pats fans (FYI – I am a Pats fan) love our team and being New Englanders we tend to be a little snooty and high-falutin’ which I understand can get under folks’ feathers in an irritating way but for now that’s just the way it is, so I would advise you to get used to it, cuz it shows no sign of ending.

    ‘And we don’t have any linebackers involved in murder cases.’

    Quoth the Raven

    __
    All of the crying and whining by New Englanders, here and elsewhere, says otherwise. Biggest bunch of wusses on the planet.

  220. Steeler's Will says: May 1, 2012 2:24 PM

    This story stinks of media entrapment. Believe me I love a good knucklehead Raven moment as much as anyone, but I can’t villify Harbaugh for these comments. So for now ravenator’s constant embarassment to his fellow Raven fans will have to be my entertainment.

    For the record, talk of tainted championships and asterisks because of Spygate is really just hurt feelings that need more time to heal IMO.

  221. stanleyhalas says: May 1, 2012 2:25 PM

    I love when someone in the NFL brings this up. Everyone knows they were cheating, they were caught and punished. There’s no argument to be had.

    But the good part is how all the whiny little CheaTriot fans all start having a hissy fit and crying that someone mentioned it. It’s always going to be attatched to this team/coaching staff. Nobody can ever get rid of it. The patriots are cheaters and got caught. I hope that someone brings this up every 3-4 months so i can read all these little girls whine like they skinned thier knee.

  222. kevpft says: May 1, 2012 2:26 PM

    sj39 says:
    May 1, 2012 12:21 PM
    kevpft, if you don’t already know what obvious advantages there would be to on offense knowing the defensive play calls then either you are simply a Pat’s homer who can’t admit they cheated or you know very little about football or, most probably, both.

    dvdman123 says:
    May 1, 2012 12:24 PM
    This response is for kevpft. They (Patriots)admitted to filming their opponents game preparations/workouts. What do you call that? I call it cheating. As to the Saints, the NFL is NOT touch or flag football. It’s ALL about vicious hits. The playoffs are a totally different animal and play becomes more intense. To believe otherwise is to be in deep denial. You sound like unhappy Vikings fan to me.

    ===============

    Actually, guys, I’m a Cowboys homer who’s watched football, very carefully, for about 34 years, and who has no stake in this little junior-high-girls drama you’re obsessed with over who’s a fan of who. Just trying to bring some reason to the table.

  223. patssox says: May 1, 2012 2:27 PM

    Let’s see if even one of the proponents of the position that the Pats’ wins were a result of filming can offer anything objective to prove their point.

    They are not very bright, it so far appears, so I doubt they can, but let’s give them a chance.

    buddybowl69?
    jonny42671?
    dvdman123?
    ducksouped?
    dvdman123?
    siaaa?
    sj39?

    Remember: this is the data you have to work with:

    Filming Years/Record:
    2000/5-11 (Drew Bledsoe)
    2001/11-5 Superbowl
    2002/9-7 (hey…still filming here…)
    2003/14-2 Superbowl
    2004/14-2 Superbowl
    2005/10-6 (nope…haven’t stopped filming yet…)
    2006/12-4

    After Filming (stopped at least prior to Game 2 in 2007):
    2007/16-0 (with zero filming! hello!)
    2008/11-5 (like 2001 w/OUT Tom Brady)
    2009/10-6 (like 2005)
    2010/14-2 (like 2003, 2004)
    2011/13-3 (better than 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006)

    For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.

  224. greevz52 says: May 1, 2012 2:30 PM

    All I do is laugh at any of you Pats fans who seriously think the Ravens are going to get blown out by them in Week 3. You obviously haven’t watched any of the past matchups.

    One comment by Harbaugh is not going to spot you 20 points. Get over yourselves and actually be realistic for a change.

  225. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 2:30 PM

    Not that it’ll happen, but I’d pay the price of admission to a game to have the Steelers public announcer put together a montage of John Harbaugh footage set to the tune of “Cryin’ Like A B___h!” by Godsmack. The lyrics to the song fit beautifully.

  226. bcgreg says: May 1, 2012 2:41 PM

    “Yeah, we’ve been victimized by other teams’ cheating.”

    “Who?”

    “I don’t wanna throw out any accusations.”

    Dumb ass. You just did!

  227. rebel21das says: May 1, 2012 2:43 PM

    “Haters wanna hate,
    Lovers wanna love,
    I don’t even want,
    None of the above,
    I want to $@%! on you.
    Yes I do, I’ll $@%! on you,
    I’ll pee on you.

    It’s your body, your body,
    Is a portapotty,
    When I pee I kick,”

  228. dirtierwater says: May 1, 2012 2:43 PM

    Wow. Bitter, bitter John.

    Food for thought, d-bag: The most storied player in Ravens history is a murderer and he remains a starter on your teams. Which makes you an enabler of murderers. Your life needs an asterisk.

  229. discosucs2005 says: May 1, 2012 2:48 PM

    Like everyone else, I was ready to jump on Harbaugh. But after reading his actual quote, I think he is correct.

    No matter what people will never forget Spygate, and there will always be people who doubt the Pats SBs because of it.

    You can call those fans stupid, you can point to evidence like success after Spygate, you can do whatever you want, but we all know those people will always exist.

    He’s also correct that, if Spygate truly didn’t help the Pats that much or at all, than it certainly wasn’t worth it.

    I know this is probably not going to be the most popular post, but it is strictly observational so if anyone has any legitimate disagreements I would love to hear them.

  230. ravenboy4lyfe says: May 1, 2012 2:55 PM

    I bet you upshaw turn out to be better thank hightower and he got a chip on his shoulder

  231. ilovefoolsball says: May 1, 2012 2:56 PM

    Both Harbaugh’s are Jackaces.

  232. bcgreg says: May 1, 2012 3:02 PM

    I still can’t believe that people including other NFL coaches don’t understand that what Belichick filmed is NOT illegal. Where he filmed it from was. Sorry, but there’s a BIG difference, but I guess haters gonna hate. The reason they don’t allow cameras–I mean didn’t allow cameras–on the sidelines is because there is a secondary rule which states that you cannot watch in game film unlike the other 3 major sports. With a camera on the sideline, the temptation to do this is too great.

    Ironically, which is why I said “didn’t allow cameras”, teams can now have multiple cameras on the sidelines for what is termed “in house productions” (remember the cameraman on the Jets sideline?). Yeah, no chance for a Spygate II to happen there.

    Spygate is still the most overblown, ridiculous story in the history of the NFL. Did they break a rule? Yes, of course they did. And, technically that is cheating. But, we all know that the haters are not using the term ‘cheat’ in this benign manner. The titles are not tainted just as the Broncos’ two titles aren’t due to salary cap circumvention.

    I just wish people like Harbaugh would educate themselves about the rules of the league.

  233. ravenboy4lyfe says: May 1, 2012 3:02 PM

    Better than

  234. ballboy48 says: May 1, 2012 3:04 PM

    And the Ravens should technically have an asterisk next to their Super Bowl, because they were after all another city’s team that was stolen from them, instead of being an expansion team! John, you speaking like a true Baltimoron!

  235. unbreakable02215 says: May 1, 2012 3:05 PM

    You stupid Sh#ts…..they got to 2 Superbowls
    AFTER Spygate ! LOL.

  236. Kelly's Chronicles says: May 1, 2012 3:07 PM

    I think PFT was the big winner on this story…. Lots of publicity for the site….

  237. TIM says: May 1, 2012 3:09 PM

    This is why JIM Harbaugh is so closed mouth with the press,because he knows most of them are just looking to use something he says to rip him and the team in print. Great job JIM !!!

  238. goldrush36 says: May 1, 2012 3:18 PM

    @ Kathy & theSaint………………. Your bitterness towards the 49ers is hysterical. You know considering that JOHN Harbaugh coaches the RAVENS not the 49ers

  239. raideralex99 says: May 1, 2012 3:18 PM

    Actually the only team who should have the asterisks besides their Super Bowl titles is the Broncos … they ACTUALLY DID CHEAT … over the salary cap.

  240. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 3:21 PM

    rtk23 regurgitated, “ALL the steelers rings are tainted. Their whole o line from the 70s are all just about dead from roids. One title came from when Brady was hurt. Never woulda won that one if Brady plays. They’ve never went thru NE to win a title. Harrison steps outta bounds during cards SB. So basically they beat two crappy teams in the rapelisberger era…Seahawks and cards.
    And Hairball, what a wuss. NE will stomp you this season and the bengals will stomp you twice on Sunday. Make that once on Sunday and once on Monday.”

    You missed the part where basically half the league was using steroids by the end of the 1970′s. There weren’t only two teams in the NFL at the time. Furthermore, you missed the part where the 1963 San Diego Chargers became the first NFL/AFL team to use steroids as part of its workout regimen under the direction of Alvin Roy, their athletic trainer at the time. Mr. Roy also worked as a trainer for the Chiefs, Cowboys and Raiders, all of whom began using steroids as part of his workout regimen. His tenure with the Chiefs and Cowboys also predates the “Steel Curtain” era in Pittsburgh. The steroid culture in football started in San Diego in 1963, not Pittsburgh in 1974.

    As for the seven Steelers players who are known to have dabbled in steroids, let’s examine their careers for a moment:

    1. Rick Donnalley – He was drafted by the Steelers in 1981, after the 1970′s dynasty was over.

    2. Steve Courson – He was drafted by the Steelers in 1978, and was a backup G, starting only one game in 1978, and eight games in 1979. He has never started in a Super Bowl, and his only full season of starts was 1981, after the 1970′s dynasty was over.

    3. Steve Furness – He was drafted by the Steelers in 1972, but his only season as a full-time starter was 1977, in which the Steelers finished 9-5, and were one-and-done in the playoffs. That was the only season during the 1970′s dynasty in which he started more than six games. He did start in Super Bowl XIII, but was not a starter in any other Super Bowl.

    4. Andy Russell – He was drafted by the Steelers in 1963, and was a starter in Super Bowls IX and X, but was also considered to be the third-best starting LB in a 4-3 defensive alignment. He was not with the team during Super Bowls XIII or XIV, having retired after the 1976 season.

    5. Jim Clack – He was drafted by the Steelers in 1971, and was the starting LG in Super Bowls IX and X. He was not with the team during Super Bowls XIII and XIV, having been traded to the Giants after the 1977 season. (A botched snap of his resulted in the “Miracle at the Meadowlands” against the Eagles during the 1978 season.)

    That leaves Terry Bradshaw, Mike Webster and Rocky Bleier as the only three Steelers to use steroids and start in all four Super Bowls during the 1970′s — and Bradshaw was prescribed them by a doctor as an agent to recover from injuries. Remember that back in the 1970′s, not nearly as much was known about steroids as today, and most people used them either as healing agents or energy boosters. Any accusations of cheating are tantamount to accusing people of cocaine abuse for drinking Coca-Cola between 1891 and 1903.

    Thank you all for allowing me to clarify that the impact of steroid use on the Steelers is dramatically overstated, just like every other criticism of the team or its success. Class is dismissed.

  241. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 3:24 PM

    By the way, rtk23, if the 2008 Cardinals were a “weak” Super Bowl opponent, then how about the 2011 Giants? They both finished with 9-7 records. At least the Steelers beat the 9-7 team they played against in Super Bowl XLIII, unlike the Patriots in Super Bowl XLVI. *lol*

  242. metitometin says: May 1, 2012 3:37 PM

    I hate to break the news to Harbaugh, who seems like the most naive, stupid person on the face of the earth, but EVERY team cheats. EVERY team is looking to gain an edge. Goodell sent that memo about videotaping to EVERY team in the NFL, not just the Patriots. Maybe Harbaugh should try cheating like EVERY other team in the NFL. He might win something once in awhile. What a loser. Seems like sour grapes to me after his team choked against the Pats in the playoffs. What a loose cannon. He should probably be fired. By the way, Jim, the Pats went 18-0 after the videotaping incident. They’ve won 10 or more games every year since then. What a classless, disgusting thing to bring up.

  243. ravensgrl says: May 1, 2012 3:51 PM

    “no matter whether those things had any impact on whether they won their championships or not, they got asterisks now, it’s been stained.”

    He didn’t call them cheaters… he said that their actions will always be associated with their championships… that people will always associate one action with the other.
    Talk about your over-reacting.

  244. CKL says: May 1, 2012 3:58 PM

    dvdman123 says:
    May 1, 2012 12:24 PM
    This response is for kevpft. They (Patriots)admitted to filming their opponents game preparations/workouts. What do you call that? I call it cheating. As to the Saints, the NFL is NOT touch or flag football. It’s ALL about vicious hits. The playoffs are a totally different animal and play becomes more intense. To believe otherwise is to be in deep denial. You sound like unhappy Vikings fan to me.
    _______________________________
    The Patriots never ever filmed anyone’s practices or walkthroughs. Never. And hence, never admitted to it. As much as whiny Walsh wanted to create that perception with his lies, it is not true. Thanks again, Tomase.
    What I call it is breaking a rule. When you break a rule, you get punished if you get caught. I have no beef with my team having to take their medicine.
    To all the people who whine about the tapes being destroyed (as if that proves anything) it’s not our fault you never saw any of them when the footage was shown on tv. Personally I wish RG had made a “cameragate cable channel” and showed them all on an endless loop so I could laugh at how silly people were who complained about what they showed when they never saw any clips.

  245. nunpuncher says: May 1, 2012 4:06 PM

    I wish Teddy Bruschi would shut up.

  246. taintedsaints2009 says: May 1, 2012 4:12 PM

    Lead Paint: Delicious but deadly.

  247. bangitfootball says: May 1, 2012 4:14 PM

    Harbaugh is just mad cause hes Belichicks biiiitch

  248. comeonnowguys says: May 1, 2012 4:32 PM

    I still can’t believe people say this is worse than what the Saints did.

    Still, Harbaugh’s right, and the volume and ferocity of the Patriot fans indicates that, deep down, they know he’s right.

  249. tfoz5150 says: May 1, 2012 4:39 PM

    If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying

  250. tonyromoisterrible says: May 1, 2012 4:46 PM

    Who doesn’t think that there should be an asterisk next to the super bowl wins? (besides pats fans)
    As far as what the Saints did being far worse couldn’t be further from the truth. What the Saints did was on the field, and not video without informing someone they were being video taped. Then good ole’ Roger has the tapes destroyed so it doesn’t make one of his teams look any worse than they already did. The truth be told we will never know what was on those tapes because Roger had them destroyed before anyone else got a hold of them. Roger Goodell should have been ousted right after that occurred. Goodell is a scum bag and his sweetheart team is a bunch of cheats.

  251. fsf7 says: May 1, 2012 4:56 PM

    patssox says:
    May 1, 2012 1:43 PM
    You are just not terribly bright if you believe the Pats only had success because of some perceived benefit received from filming coaches’ signals.

    For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.

    If you still believe your own discombobulated logic that the Pats only found success due to filming signals, you are none too bright! The facts speak for themselves, though I imagine facts don’t help some of you very much.
    _________________________________

    Have you ever REALLY looked at the facts – or just glossed over them?

    Before Spygate was revealed – 2000-2006:
    Patriots post-season record 12-2
    Patriots W/L composite: 173-51
    15-1: Steelers
    14-2: Rams, Chargers
    13-3: Steelers, Broncos, Eagles
    12-4: Colts (3x), Jaguars, Titans
    11-5; Panthers
    10-6: Raiders, Jets

    After Spygate was revealed – 2007-2011
    Patriots post-season record: 4-4
    Patriots opponent W/L composite: 81-47
    12-4: Ravens
    11-5: Jets, Chargers, Jaguars
    10-6: Giants
    9-7: Ravens, Giants
    8-8: Broncos

    Ever wonder how the Patriots could win an NFL record 22 consecutive games with only 1 player who will make the Hall of Fame?

    The Patriots went from dominating the Steelers and Colts – two teams that won and reached multiple Super Bowls themselves, to losing to the 10-6 and 9-7 Giants in the Super Bowl.

    The Patriots are relevant only because the rules changes regarding player safety have negated their inability to play defense or run the ball. They played 4 teams in all of 2011 with a winning record and were a dropped Lee Evans TD from watching the Super Bowl from home.

    The Patriots benefitted from Spygate and would NOT have 3 Super Bowls without it. They may have won games and competed, but they wouldn’t have Lombardis.

  252. footballfan17 says: May 1, 2012 4:59 PM

    Class is back in!

    R.Donnalley
    S. Courson
    S. Furness
    A.Russell
    J. Clack
    T.Bradshaw
    M.Webster
    R.Bleir

    Is 8 not 7

  253. bobhk says: May 1, 2012 4:59 PM

    patssox says:
    May 1, 2012 2:27 PM
    Let’s see if even one of the proponents of the position that the Pats’ wins were a result of filming can offer anything objective to prove their point.

    They are not very bright, it so far appears, so I doubt they can, but let’s give them a chance.

    buddybowl69?
    jonny42671?
    dvdman123?
    ducksouped?
    dvdman123?
    siaaa?
    sj39?

    Remember: this is the data you have to work with:

    Filming Years/Record:
    2000/5-11 (Drew Bledsoe)
    2001/11-5 Superbowl
    2002/9-7 (hey…still filming here…)
    2003/14-2 Superbowl
    2004/14-2 Superbowl
    2005/10-6 (nope…haven’t stopped filming yet…)
    2006/12-4

    After Filming (stopped at least prior to Game 2 in 2007):
    2007/16-0 (with zero filming! hello!)
    2008/11-5 (like 2001 w/OUT Tom Brady)
    2009/10-6 (like 2005)
    2010/14-2 (like 2003, 2004)
    2011/13-3 (better than 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006)

    For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.
    ———–
    Must not be very good NE education system.

    Firstly, taping helped them win. No should claim that was the only reason for winning. But, if it did not help them why were they doing it when NFL sent memos telling teams not to.

    They were punished by NFL for doing it. In other words they broke the rules. Why is this rule in place? To prevent teams from having unfair advantage. We know NE broke that rule.

    So, while we know that they were taping the signals, it may not have been sufficient in some years and may have helped in some. No one knows for sure. But, there’s enough doubt in many people’s mind to call them tainted.

    Why do it if it does not help?

  254. dynaco says: May 1, 2012 5:03 PM

    Yawn
    Everyone knows the Pats got away with cheating during their title days. Why is this news now?

    I get a kick out of the NE fans who tell John to win a SB before talking. Here’s a thought: how about the Pats win a SB without their camera crew. Think you guys can do that?

  255. stanleyhalas says: May 1, 2012 5:05 PM

    @bcgreg

    So you want us to believe that you’re more educated on the matter than an NFL coach? right, so you’re not just a total tool and not worth listening to. please, put on a seminar so that you can educate all of these people who have spent their lives in all of this, since you have learned more and understand more from your lazy boy in front of your computer.

    you also failed to mention that allegations that they were filming the rams walk throughs leading up to the superbowl. That fact always seems to slip people’s minds over in beantown.

  256. steeelfann says: May 1, 2012 5:11 PM

    I remember the Steelers saying after the AFC Championship loss that it seemed like the Patriot Defense always knew what the play was going to be and seemed to line up perfectly almost always.

    Course, Cowher did not catch on.

  257. nickster31 says: May 1, 2012 5:15 PM

    castleanthrax says: May 1, 2012 1:27 PM

    @sj39:

    He was asking how you can decipher the signals from the game tape during the game in time for it to have a benefit…not asking how could you get a benefit from knowing the plays.

    Don’t mince words just answer his question.

    ***********************************

    Honestly, it does make a difference. At field level, you not only get to see what is being called, but you get to hear what the players are saying about various coverages and audibles. Basically, you are knowing what the defense is doing with your different packages, so you know how to exploit it. At the conclusion of every defensive drive, the tape can be taken to the locker room, broken down, and by the end of the first quarter, you would know every base D that is being run, along with the sub and audibles for the formations you are running.

  258. tonyromoisterrible says: May 1, 2012 5:17 PM

    @gnutella0
    Are you going to use any quotes in your post since you plagiarized the hell out of it? Just like a steeler fan to not own a single original thought. Congrats to you for being able to read and copy another’s thoughts. I guess this puts you one step up from a cowgirl fan. The steelers were roided up.

  259. mmmpierogi says: May 1, 2012 6:38 PM

    tonyromoisterrible says: May 1, 2012 5:17 PM

    @gnutella0
    Are you going to use any quotes in your post since you plagiarized the hell out of it? Just like a steeler fan to not own a single original thought. Congrats to you for being able to read and copy another’s thoughts. I guess this puts you one step up from a cowgirl fan. The steelers were roided up.

    *************************************************************

    Read my post. I made fairly similar, if not less detailed, points as did gnutella guy, so if he’s plagiarizing, so am I. If you want me to cite my references, I can do so. However, I’ve rarely seen that done on PFT user posts when people discuss, say, player or team stats. Explain why I would hold myself to a higher standard.

    As for citing others ideas, I use information that I assume to have some historical basis, which means I’ll refer to an authority on the topic; unlike you, I won’t sit and make claims (“The steelers were roided up.”) simply to blow hot air in people’s faces, to make an argument simply because its a team I dislike, or to make petty arguments that have no basis in reality as would a child. Citing information from others doesn’t make one’s argument unoriginal, because I don’t write history and I’m not here to create my own version of it.

  260. steviethewiz says: May 1, 2012 6:44 PM

    Poor Chowders ,,,,,,,TAINTED and you cheaters all know it. I’m glad this sad cheating tale lives on.

  261. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 7:27 PM

    footballfan17 regurgitated, “Class is back in!

    R.Donnalley
    S. Courson
    S. Furness
    A.Russell
    J. Clack
    T.Bradshaw
    M.Webster
    R.Bleir

    Is 8 not 7″

    Touche. I just threw in Rick Donnalley because somebody else mentioned his name, and I forgot to update the number. I probably shouldn’t have added Donnalley anyway, considering he wasn’t around during the “Steel Curtain” years anyway.

    tonyromoisterrible regurgitated, “@gnutella0
    Are you going to use any quotes in your post since you plagiarized the hell out of it? Just like a steeler fan to not own a single original thought. Congrats to you for being able to read and copy another’s thoughts. I guess this puts you one step up from a cowgirl fan. The steelers were roided up.”

    If I’m guilty of plagiarism for posting facts from ProFootballReference.com, then I guess we’re all guilty of plagiarism since most of the words we type can be found in the dictionary.

    Or, if that’s not what you’re talking about, then I should point out that there’s a difference between plagiarism and elaborating on somebody else’s thoughts. Learn it. I did the latter. I went into more explicit detail on a subject that I know more about than a great many other people, including you. I have no patience for revisionist history.

    For the record, I think the “Spygate” scandal (lame nickname for it, by the way) is much ado about nothing. The Patriots didn’t even play in Super Bowls XXXV, XXXVII, XL or XLI. Furthermore, I already detailed how the lack of basic execution near the end of Super Bowls XLII and XLVI — specifically, drops — prevented the Patriots from icing either game. Asante Samuel didn’t drop a late INT in Super Bowl XLII because the Patriots didn’t have their cameras, nor did Wes Welker drop a late pass because of it either.

  262. realdealsteel says: May 1, 2012 7:44 PM

    Makes me chuckle how loser teams try to make themselves feel better about their losing ways by discrediting winning organazations.

    Sad.

  263. bunkmcnulty says: May 1, 2012 8:38 PM

    Ravens fan here and I hate whenever one of our guys opens his mouth. I hate the media and I would not give them anything. You know, like Belicheck.

    My initial thought is Harbs’ comments weren’t that bad. That’s ok. It gives all these idiots a chance to talk about a whiner. If your inclined, you are having a field day with this.

    I promise I have not read the 282 comments so far. But answer me this NE fans: If the video taping didn’t do anything or that much for the Patriots, why were the fines and penalties so harsh? Why?

    It’s so funny because everyone comments here like the all the facts are transparent. All I know is Kraft is one of the most powerful owners in this league and they still got slapped hard. People, it’s what we don’t know that counts here. And I promise there is more to this story than we know. Ever wonder why the tapes were destroyed? If the infraction was as simple as it is made to sound here, then Kraft would have publicly had a cow over the whole thing. Folks, that never happened. Kraft, Belicheck and all took it.

    Sure. Have fun with Harbaugh. Opening your mouth nets you that. But don’t sell me the Pats thing was no big deal. The punishment tells us much more unless your to foolish to realize that.

  264. dynaco says: May 1, 2012 8:41 PM

    Yeah, Tebow has the chuckles too.

  265. dreamicus says: May 1, 2012 8:50 PM

    You gotta admit, they did cheat though. Right?

  266. stuartscottslefteye says: May 1, 2012 9:08 PM

    I love all the talk of a Patriots romp the next time they play the Ravens. The last time I heard chatter of a Patriots beat-down of the Ravens, Brady and Belichick were standing on the sideline with a few seconds left in the game holding hands and making a deal with the devil for Cundiff to miss a glorified extra point.

    Too bad the devil was out of town two weeks later…

  267. gnutella0 says: May 1, 2012 9:36 PM

    realdealsteel, I call it football Marxism. That’s when people demonize the teams that are consistently successful, claiming that their success wasn’t earned.

  268. patssox says: May 1, 2012 9:46 PM

    “Must not be very good NE education system.”

    Got a Master’s degree (3.82) there. You?
    _______________________________

    “Firstly, taping helped them win.”

    Your evidence? None. Mere supposition. Zero evidence.
    _______________________________

    “No should claim that was the only reason for winning.”

    In fact, nobody ever demonstrated how, in fact, it did help them. Can you? Do you know something we do not?
    _______________________________

    “But, if it did not help them why were they doing it when NFL sent memos telling teams not to.”

    I imagine they hoped it would create some advantage. Given their W/L % while filming (.670) and after filming stopped (.800) it is clear that they were ALWAYS a team that did not need any advantage that might have come through filming.

    They were (are) JUST THAT GOOD.
    _______________________________

    “So, while we know that they were taping the signals, it may not have been sufficient in some years and may have helped in some. No one knows for sure.”

    What? “No one knows for sure”?

    Didn’t you just say above:

    “Firstly, taping helped them win.”

    Well, that sounds fairly certain, doesn’t it?? Which is it? Did it help them (you say YES) or did it not (you say “who knows?”)

    See the problem with people like you and your failing logic??
    _______________________________

    NEXT UP: This Guy…

    “you also failed to mention that allegations that they were filming the rams walk throughs leading up to the superbowl. That fact always seems to slip people’s minds over in beantown.”

    It slips our mind because we are aware, which I imagine you are, too, that the Boston Herald cited an “unnamed source” for its article, which they quickly retracted because they admitted never to having seen any evidence.

    Read a newspaper and get up to speed.

  269. thundersnacker says: May 1, 2012 10:11 PM

    Heard the audio, Harbaugh was speaking of the perception, not what actually happened. He’s just not articulate enough to keep sites and networks from being able to misconstrue his intent. The perception IS that NE and the Saints cheated, but if every other team is clean, why is Mangini not an assistant or DC somewere?

  270. thundersnacker says: May 1, 2012 10:14 PM

    …somewhere. Read twice, hit “submit” once. Doh!

  271. cgsuddeath says: May 1, 2012 10:24 PM

    Too many NE fans on this post.

  272. pftusername1 says: May 1, 2012 10:42 PM

    regarding Belichick- like or hate him one thing is for sure, you will never, ever find him lowering himself like this to disparage another NFL coach in the media.

  273. walkingtalking1 says: May 1, 2012 11:42 PM

    Crybaby Ha Ha Harbaugh!
    Cant wait for the Pats to CRUSH you.
    Man I mean CRUSH!

  274. dynaco says: May 2, 2012 12:26 AM

    Pats brass know they got caught and paid the penalty. Why don’t the fans agree?

  275. bozosforall says: May 2, 2012 1:45 AM

    pftusername1 says:
    May 1, 2012 10:42 PM
    regarding Belichick- like or hate him one thing is for sure, you will never, ever find him lowering himself like this to disparage another NFL coach in the media.

    ___
    Because he is too chicken to give anyone bulletin board material. Though good teams never need such childish motivators.

  276. stanzona says: May 2, 2012 2:11 AM

    The Spygate rhetoric is nothing short of laughable. Do the critics realize that New England has a better cumulative winning percentage during the 5 years post-Spygate compared to the 6 years which preceeded the scandal? From 2001 thru 2006, NE had a record of 80-28 which is a winning percentage of .746. During that time, they won 3 Conference Championships. From 2007 thru 2011, NE has a record of 68-21, which is a winning percentage of .764. Included within that time frame is the 2008 Brady-less season. They won 2 Conference titles during that 5 year span. Now the naysayers will point out that they have not won a Super Bowl since the 2004 season. At some point, good fortune does come into play. I guess people can blame the lack of cameras for a dropped game ending interception by Asante Samuel in the first SB loss and a key 4th quarter drop by Wes Welker in the most recent one, which would have likely resulted in 2 additional championships. Yeah, that makes sense. Simply laughable.

  277. darthvader89 says: May 2, 2012 3:06 AM

    As a Ravens fan I find this hilarious. Harbaugh never does anything to make distractions always tries to just be boring in news conferences, at times positively Belicheckian (yes it’s a word now) and then suddenly his name pops up in top stories on google. I thought he had died or something.

  278. bozosforall says: May 2, 2012 10:50 AM

    stanzona says:
    May 2, 2012 2:11 AM
    The Spygate rhetoric is nothing short of laughable. Do the critics realize that New England has a better cumulative winning percentage during the 5 years post-Spygate compared to the 6 years which preceeded the scandal? From 2001 thru 2006, NE had a record of 80-28 which is a winning percentage of .746. During that time, they won 3 Conference Championships. From 2007 thru 2011, NE has a record of 68-21, which is a winning percentage of .764. Included within that time frame is the 2008 Brady-less season. They won 2 Conference titles during that 5 year span. Now the naysayers will point out that they have not won a Super Bowl since the 2004 season. At some point, good fortune does come into play. I guess people can blame the lack of cameras for a dropped game ending interception by Asante Samuel in the first SB loss and a key 4th quarter drop by Wes Welker in the most recent one, which would have likely resulted in 2 additional championships. Yeah, that makes sense. Simply laughable.

    __
    ZERO titles. The rest is all window dressing, moron. And less good fortune (and no cameras) would have rssulted in 3 less championships. It goes both ways, idiot. You and the rest of the NE assumers are the real laughable ones.

  279. bozosforall says: May 2, 2012 10:50 AM

    stanzona says:
    May 2, 2012 2:11 AM
    The Spygate rhetoric is nothing short of laughable. Do the critics realize that New England has a better cumulative winning percentage during the 5 years post-Spygate compared to the 6 years which preceeded the scandal? From 2001 thru 2006, NE had a record of 80-28 which is a winning percentage of .746. During that time, they won 3 Conference Championships. From 2007 thru 2011, NE has a record of 68-21, which is a winning percentage of .764. Included within that time frame is the 2008 Brady-less season. They won 2 Conference titles during that 5 year span. Now the naysayers will point out that they have not won a Super Bowl since the 2004 season. At some point, good fortune does come into play. I guess people can blame the lack of cameras for a dropped game ending interception by Asante Samuel in the first SB loss and a key 4th quarter drop by Wes Welker in the most recent one, which would have likely resulted in 2 additional championships. Yeah, that makes sense. Simply laughable.

    __
    ZERO titles. The rest is all window dressing, moron. And less good fortune (and no cameras) would have resulted in 3 less championships. It goes both ways, idiot. You and the rest of the NE assumers are the real laughable ones.

  280. phillyfinsfan says: May 2, 2012 10:56 AM

    Pats cheated. Three Time Super Bowl Champions* End of story!

  281. raven4life21 says: May 2, 2012 11:30 AM

    First off,
    John merely stated the OBVIOUS! ANY team caught cheating the year they won a SB would have a tarnished or “stained” outcome… Many pats fans on here are just upset cuz it happened to them and their team were the ones caught… it just puts a “what if” on that year… doesn’t mean the Pats still wouldn’t have won and it also doesn’t mean that other teams werent’ doing it too… but the fact still remains that it was the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS who were caught so they are gonna have to live with the stain… GET OVER IT! I bet you almost EVERY SINGLE NFL COACH feels the same way John does…

    Second,
    anybody that calls Ray Lewis a Murderer is a moron and doesnt’ know jack about that case, the only thing that could possibly be true is that he may have been acquiantances with someone who did do it… and when the Prosecuting attorney says to Ray to his face “I don’t care if you did it or not, you are gonna pay for this anyway” settling out of court seems like such a better outcome when you are screwed by the system, regardless neither situation brings the victim back to life and has NOTHING to do with this article… most of you are Steeler fans or just Raven haters…

    Third,
    anyone who thinks the Ravens have ever had a bounty system is a hater as well… the Ravens D hits the hardest in the league and they get a bad rap because your team is usually the ones getting the beat down from our Defense… hate all you want.. but they are far from dirty and don’t need bounties for any motivation… if anything… the entire offense has the bounty on them EVERY GAME… but the only reward is complete satisfaction when they are put on their ass… keep on hating people… the Ravens will continue to prove it on the field that they are contenders year in and year out

  282. shempnet says: May 2, 2012 11:57 AM

    So Ravens fans…if Ray Ray is so innocent…what happened to his white suit? Why did he reach cash settlements with the families of two guys that died? He just felt sorry for them?? Maybe his suit magically flew into the closet of the guy that really killed Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman. The term is called “Jury Nullification”, use the Google machine and look it up.

    P.S.
    Please shut up.

  283. stanzona says: May 2, 2012 2:01 PM

    Namecalling? Wow. Very classy, The bottom line is New England has the best winning percentage in the NFL (and all of U.S professional sports) after Spygate and their winning percentage after Spygate is higher than it was from 2001 thru 2004. Those are facts, not opinions. Have some cheese with that whine. LOL.

  284. raven4life21 says: May 2, 2012 2:20 PM

    Shempnet
    if Ray was remotely guilty it would have went to trial…. Watch “NFL Films Presents: The Coaching Tree of Ray Lewis” maybe you’ll learn something… but prob not considering you like to tell people to shut up via the internet… ballsy… on top of that… NO SUSPENSION FROM THE LEAGUE EITHER… no proof… no trial… no verdict… shut your mouth (oops you made me drop to your level)

    i would have done the same thing that Ray did and gave money to people who lost their child if i had it… it would be the least i could do… Ray also cut ties with all the low life losers who hung around him afterwards and actually did something with his life in a most positive way… i bet you haven’t even done a single percent compared to what he has for people in his lifetime…

  285. discosucs2005 says: May 2, 2012 4:10 PM

    @stanzona

    “The bottom line is New England has the best winning percentage in the NFL (and all of U.S professional sports)”

    Except for the Harlem Globetrotters; boom roasted.

  286. shempnet says: May 2, 2012 4:57 PM

    raven4life…”Lewis admitted that he gave a misleading statement to police on the morning after the killings. He was sentenced to one year of probation and was fined US$250,000 by the NFL, which was believed to be the highest fine levied against an NFL player for an infraction not involving substance abuse.” So you are right, he wasn’t suspended. I guess you expect me just gave money to the families out of the goodness of his heart? The guys that he fought with in the street..that just happened to have an unfortunate collision with a knife? That is just straight illogical. Guess what, 381 U.S. servicemen have died in Afghanistan since last year… since he is so awesome maybe can he scratch their families a check too? Granted they didn’t die in a knife fight outside a club, but still. Something happened, and if a regular guy (not a millionaire) was in the same boat he would get life. So keep being a raven 4 life and ignorant.

  287. bozosforall says: May 2, 2012 6:17 PM

    stanzona says:
    May 2, 2012 2:01 PM
    Namecalling? Wow. Very classy, The bottom line is New England has the best winning percentage in the NFL (and all of U.S professional sports) after Spygate and their winning percentage after Spygate is higher than it was from 2001 thru 2004. Those are facts, not opinions. Have some cheese with that whine. LOL.

    __
    Namecalling. INVENTED in New England when it comes to sports (you conveniently forget the “Yankees Suck” t-shirts that continue to populate Fenway Park. WOW. Very classy. Choke on that, suckbona.

    Best winning percentage? With ZERO titles. That is the only fact that matters. The rest is all window dressing. You and the rest of the NE crybabies are the real whiners.

  288. iamthewalrus12 says: May 2, 2012 9:29 PM

    harbaughs word were taken completely out of context i bet none of you idiots even heard the interview but yet youre all quick to throw in youre 2 cents. american media at its finest

  289. godzilla111111 says: May 3, 2012 6:09 AM

    rtookey says:
    May 1, 2012 1:30 PM
    Isn’t Ray Lewis a murderer that isn’t in prison because a witness magically decided not to take the stand… I think paying a witness to not testify would also be considered cheating…

    ————————————————————

    You are completely wrong as are most who comment on this matter.

    The 2 clowns with Ray were tried for murder-and found innocent. Do you understand the implication?

    PS Why wouldn’t the Pats cheat after the Tuck Rule showed them the way?

  290. lionsdetroitcom says: May 3, 2012 7:58 AM

    I usually don’t agree with anything a Harbaugh has to say, but I have to change my stance on this one. There is an asterisk on there championship in my mind. It’s not that hard to win when you know a teams plays before they run them.

  291. bozosforall says: May 3, 2012 11:59 AM

    One day later…Pats still branded as cheaters.

    30, 40, 50 years later…Pats still will be branded as cheaters.

  292. kb1953 says: May 3, 2012 6:13 PM

    Truth hurts Patriot fans. If BB nevers wins another ring then spygate will be an even bigger stain. This isn’t sour grapes from Harbaugh, he is simply saying don’t cheat…ya dirty cheaters.

  293. eightysixisback says: May 4, 2012 3:49 PM

    How many championships have they won since they got caught, zero. hard to think that is just a coincidence.

  294. bearsrulepackdrool says: May 4, 2012 5:52 PM

    Mr. Wright 212 says: May 1, 2012 12:24 PM

    bearsrulepackdrool says:
    May 1, 2012 11:47 AM
    Hmmm. Since spygate. The Ravens have only beaten the Pats once. Yea, that explains it all.

    ———

    Ahhhhh but the GIANTS have beaten them three out of the four times since — and only failed to win the other one because of a fluky blown coverage late in the game.

    Pats vs. Ravens track record does not nullify his point, so don’t even try it.

    _______________________________

    Actually it does. But, what does the Pats vs. Giants record have to do with his point? Absolutely nothing. Seeing as how it occurred after spygate and has nothing to do with the Ravens.

    I know the Giants are talking about “fluke blow coverage.” If it weren’t for David Tyree and Mario Manningham’s fluke catches, Eli Manning wouldn’t even be in the league right now.

  295. axespray says: May 5, 2012 3:18 PM

    Josh McDaniel’s wins as Coach of the Broncos should have an * to it.

  296. axespray says: May 5, 2012 3:27 PM

    “For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.”

    Patriot’s teams before 07 were semi talented, not super talented…. winning 3 point games against far more talented teams like the 01 Rams is a bit fishy, Then you had games where Brady could tell which blitzes Jim Johnson was throwing at him.

    Nowadays, Patriots are one of the more talented teams and they’re losing to average teams with ok coaching in the playoffs like the Ravens/Jets & Giants. …just saying

  297. Deof Movestofca says: May 5, 2012 4:59 PM

    @warrenmoon: There is a clear distinction between cheating (not only deliberate and the team has control over it) and missed calls (accidental and the team has no control of it). @stanzona: So what you’re saying is the Patsies have had BETTER teams since SpyGate than before yet still have failed to win another SB. Yet cheating didn’t help lesser teams win any SBs?

  298. bozosforall says: May 7, 2012 10:28 AM

    Deof Movestofca says:
    May 5, 2012 4:59 PM
    @warrenmoon: There is a clear distinction between cheating (not only deliberate and the team has control over it) and missed calls (accidental and the team has no control of it). @stanzona: So what you’re saying is the Patsies have had BETTER teams since SpyGate than before yet still have failed to win another SB. Yet cheating didn’t help lesser teams win any SBs?

    __
    Being better in the regular season means NOTHING, if they don’t win it all. They didn’t win it all in any of those seasons, therefore the cheating did help them in the games that mattered most.

  299. bozosforall says: May 7, 2012 10:31 AM

    bearsrulepackdrool says:
    May 4, 2012 5:52 PM
    Mr. Wright 212 says: May 1, 2012 12:24 PM

    bearsrulepackdrool says:
    May 1, 2012 11:47 AM
    Hmmm. Since spygate. The Ravens have only beaten the Pats once. Yea, that explains it all.

    ———

    Ahhhhh but the GIANTS have beaten them three out of the four times since — and only failed to win the other one because of a fluky blown coverage late in the game.

    Pats vs. Ravens track record does not nullify his point, so don’t even try it.

    _______________________________

    Actually it does. But, what does the Pats vs. Giants record have to do with his point? Absolutely nothing. Seeing as how it occurred after spygate and has nothing to do with the Ravens.

    I know the Giants are talking about “fluke blow coverage.” If it weren’t for David Tyree and Mario Manningham’s fluke catches, Eli Manning wouldn’t even be in the league right now.

    __
    And if not for the Pats’ cheating, they would have a worse SB record than the Buffalo Bills.

  300. bozosforall says: May 7, 2012 10:32 AM

    Bottom line…30, 40, 50 years later…Pats still will be branded as cheaters.

  301. hairpie says: May 7, 2012 12:00 PM

    Its unfortunate that any post i make that proves that what the Pats did was nothing more than a media circus created by ESPN, it gets censored and deleted. I bet this will too. U-S-A! U-S-A!
    what a joke.

  302. hairpie says: May 7, 2012 12:04 PM

    bozosforall says:
    May 7, 2012 10:28 AM
    Deof Movestofca says:
    May 5, 2012 4:59 PM
    @warrenmoon: There is a clear distinction between cheating (not only deliberate and the team has control over it) and missed calls (accidental and the team has no control of it). @stanzona: So what you’re saying is the Patsies have had BETTER teams since SpyGate than before yet still have failed to win another SB. Yet cheating didn’t help lesser teams win any SBs?

    __
    Being better in the regular season means NOTHING, if they don’t win it all. They didn’t win it all in any of those seasons, therefore the cheating did help them in the games that mattered most.

    —————————–

    How so? Please explain in detail.

  303. infectorman says: May 7, 2012 2:11 PM

    @ bozo:
    Bottom line…30, 40, 50 years later…Pats still will be branded as cheaters.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Only by nitwit fringe haters like you.

    Giants cheated, too. It’s even on video tape for those interested in finding it.
    YouTube: keywords, Deon Grant, and Fred Robbins faking injury.
    Tainted SB’s, period.
    IN fact, no one in your corner has ever once proven that NE gained any benefit from Taping signals from the wrong spot on the field.
    Conversely, it is abundantly clear to anyone viewing the videos I referenced, that the Giants gained “in-game” benefit from faking injuries.
    Proven CHEATERS.
    Prove to us NE gained a benefit?
    Can you? Thought not.

    Your argument is deeply rooted in speculation and fundamentally flawed.

    You lose, Bozo……again.

  304. hairpie says: May 7, 2012 3:43 PM

    Not to mention in the first meeting, Goddells kids were wearing Giants hats in the stands, and the blatant holding non call on Seymour during the Tyree play is MORE than a little suspicious.

    You wont get any explanations from the haters about the Pats benefiting from taping before it was against the rules. There arent any.

  305. bcgreg says: May 7, 2012 5:29 PM

    @ stanleyhalas

    Before you comment, you might want to know the facts. The reporter who wrote those allegations, later retracted his comments after Matt Walsh, the team’s videographer at the time and the haters’ star witness, told Goodell that no taping of walk throughs ever occurred. The reason Walsh was brought in was because of these fabricated allegations. So, if you want to believe falsehoods to prove your point, then you have no legs to stand on.

    Fact, the taping of practices and walk throughs was a fabrication.

    Fact, what was filmed is not illegal according to league rules (notice I said WHAT was filmed).

    So, like I said, it’s amazing how many people–including some NFL coaches and players–simply accept the media’s line that the Pats illegally filmed the Jets’ sidelines. It is a misleading statement that makes it seem that you cannot film the opposing team’s sideline when in fact the only thing illegal about it was that the camera placement rule was broken.

    The punishment was more about defying the new commissioner than anything else. Mangini has already come out with his regret in the matter. When Spygate went down, I predicted that Mangini would be blackballed and would regret telling the league. I was actually shocked that Cleveland hired him, but after I read about his link to Lerner, it wasn’t so shocking. But, you mean to tell me that Mangini can’t get an assistant coaching gig? I also predicted that Goodell will admit regret in how he handled the matter at some point in the future. We shall see on that count.

    Believe me, as a fan of the Pats, I have done my research on the matter. Unlike you, I did not lie to make my point. Also, unlike you, I didn’t call you a name to make myself feel better.

  306. hairpie says: May 7, 2012 8:01 PM

    Why are my comments consistently censored and deleted? I’m not typing anything inflammatory, nor am i insulting anyone or causing a fight. Its very difficult to have a back and forth discussion if the moderators delete one side of the argument. This has to be 20+ posts now. not fair at all.

  307. homelanddefense says: May 8, 2012 1:51 PM

    axespray says: May 5, 2012 3:27 PM

    “For there to have been a benefit prior to 2007 there also would also have had to be the opposite after 2007 and yet we see that that is not the case.”

    Patriot’s teams before 07 were semi talented, not super talented…. winning 3 point games against far more talented teams like the 01 Rams is a bit fishy, Then you had games where Brady could tell which blitzes Jim Johnson was throwing at him.

    Nowadays, Patriots are one of the more talented teams and they’re losing to average teams with ok coaching in the playoffs like the Ravens/Jets & Giants. …just saying

    __________________________________

    Go back and look at the 2003 and 2004 patriots teams. they were absolutely stacked, particularly on defense. 14-2 both seasons.

    Harrison, Bruschi, T Johnson, Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Samuel, Vrabel, McGinnest, Colvin, etc.

    To say that they were semi-talented is completely misleading. And the 2001 team was definitely an underdog to the Rams, but many of those players were considered average at the time and ended up being stars (Brady, Ty Law, Troy Brown, Milloy)

    But dont let the facts get in the way of your biased opinion.

  308. infectorman says: May 8, 2012 3:40 PM

    @ homelanddefense:

    Nice reply.
    Anyone with a screen name of “axespray” reeks of 2 things:
    ignorance and immaturity…
    Axespray? Please.
    Go and listen to your Justin Beiber and Katy Perry CD’s.

  309. elmobad says: May 8, 2012 5:55 PM

    Knowing just a few calls can effect the outcome of any game.. blitz coming.. linebacker dropping into coverage.. etc..
    The Pats were caught and punished (mildly in comparison to the Saints)
    I’ll always question why the evidence was destroyed, it just reeks of collaboration and coverup..
    tainted? absolutely!

  310. bozosforall says: May 8, 2012 7:01 PM

    hairpie says:
    May 7, 2012 12:04 PM
    bozosforall says:
    May 7, 2012 10:28 AM
    Deof Movestofca says:
    May 5, 2012 4:59 PM
    @warrenmoon: There is a clear distinction between cheating (not only deliberate and the team has control over it) and missed calls (accidental and the team has no control of it). @stanzona: So what you’re saying is the Patsies have had BETTER teams since SpyGate than before yet still have failed to win another SB. Yet cheating didn’t help lesser teams win any SBs?

    __
    Being better in the regular season means NOTHING, if they don’t win it all. They didn’t win it all in any of those seasons, therefore the cheating did help them in the games that mattered most.

    —————————–

    How so? Please explain in detail.

    __
    The years before they were caught (the years that they were cheating undetected) were the years that they had the most successes in the playoffs, including three titles (big games). Since they were caught, they have won ZERO titles (big games).

    The Packers had a great regular season record this past season, but no title, so it meant NOTHING.

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