Learn the facts then open mouth in that order.

Note to NFLPA: When the coaches admit there was a pay to injure program, and when your members (Thanks Anthony Hargrove for a signed statement. Love R. G.) admit there was a program, there was a program.
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Just as they have not released any evidence – only characterized it – the NFL has not released Hargrove’s statement – only characterized it . “One player (Hargrove) submitted a written statement in which he did not dispute the existence of the program.” Sorry, not disputing something in a written statement is not the same as admitting to it.

Sorry to burden the discussion with facts.

As for rubbinnertube’s statement:
“attempting to injure or maim with preconceived planning and direct intent is still a violation; whether you were actually successful in acheiving your goal or not.

This isn’t a case of regular law, but I would think the premise is somewhat similar”

you’re right…it’s not a court of law…If this was the NFL would have to present it’s evidence, something it hasn’t done. All we know about the case is what the NFL has said happened; and you have to admit that the NFL has a motive with the concussion lawsuits to show it is taking aggressive action in the court of public opinion, if not law.

Don’t you think if the NFL “had the goods” on these guys they would release it to make their case even stronger? They would say “Jonathan Vilma received $5,000 for knocking so-and-so out on Oct. 11, 2010.”

To use your reference to a legal case, this lack of detail and specificity would never stand up in court.

I’m still waiting for the NFL and Saints haters on here to tell me what taking away draft choices has anything to do with punishing those responsible for “Bounty Gate” anyway? Even if you think the punishments were appropriate, shouldn’t the punishment be directed at those who were responsible and participated? The fact that Goodell took away two years’ worth of high draft choices demonstrates his petty vindictiveness to the whole organization and its fan base.

If only somebody had recorded Gregg Williams while he was issuing his injury orders… I mean… “defensive assignments”. That would be all the proof we’d need!

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The issue is not whether Gregg Williams promoted the idea….the issue is whether the players actually participated.

A grand total of zero “cart-offs” and zero “knock outs” over the three years Williams presided over the defense would seem to answer that question with a resounding “no.”

That is real, concrete, provable evidence….something which the NFL’s investigation was NEVER able to produce on their side of the issue.

mdd913 says:
May 2, 2012 2:35 PM
ejmat2 says: May 2, 2012 2:29 PM
Hargrove signed a statement stating there was a system and he participated in the system.

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Gregg Williams signed a statement too. A statement that the NFL wrote for him after Goodell decided that his apology was not contrite enough.

This is all verifiable fact.

It’s not hard to imagine Hargrove was also pressured into signing a similar “confession.”
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Right! I could see Hargrove being bullied by the Commissioner. Not very likely. The fact is the NFL will not get away with suspending players unless they had solid evidence. All you have at this point is an assumption on your part. I was asked to provide a link, I did. Done deal.

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And here is a link that shows Gregg Williams apology was written by the NFL:

http://danpatrick.directv.com.edgesuite.net/Podcast/DP-Hr2_04-06-2012_stream.mp3

If Goodell would force Gregg Williams into signing an apology he did not write, why is it so hard to believe he would do the same to Anthony Hargrove?

Please answer honestly.

That is about how the NFLPA and Drew Brees are starting to sound at this point.

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Gregg Williams signed a statement too. A statement that the NFL wrote for him after Goodell decided that his apology was not contrite enough.

This is all verifiable fact.

It’s not hard to imagine Hargrove was also pressured into signing a similar “confession.”
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Right! I could see Hargrove being bullied by the Commissioner. Not very likely. The fact is the NFL will not get away with suspending players unless they had solid evidence. All you have at this point is an assumption on your part. I was asked to provide a link, I did. Done deal.

From Peter King:

Former U.S. attorney Mary Jo White, who successfully prosecuted noted mob boss John Gotti for murder and racketeering in 1992, was brought in by the league to pore over all the evidence. White reviewed the findings of the league’s internal investigations (one in early 2010, and a renewed investigation early this year) and reportedly told the league its case is solid.

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Not surprised that the league would release this. So Peter King heard it from somebody who heard it from somebody who heard it from somebody.

That about sums up this whole case. A whole lot of hearsay and practically nothing to back it up.

Goodell is a weasel and anybody who is a fan of any NFL team should be seriously concerned about his approach to running the league.

The NFL has actual video of Albert Haynesworth stomping on a helmet-less player’s head. The player had to have stitches. Haynesworth’s penalty was 5 games without pay.

Jonathon Vilma’s actions are not on video tape. All the evidence presented so far seem to show that his actions caused no on-field cart offs or injuries of any type. His penalty is a full year suspension.

Stay classy NFL.

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Gregg Williams signed a statement too. A statement that the NFL wrote for him after Goodell decided that his apology was not contrite enough.

This is all verifiable fact.

It’s not hard to imagine Hargrove was also pressured into signing a similar “confession.”

This isn’t a case of regular law, but I would think the premise is somewhat similar. At least that must be the route the NFL is taking.

What more do you want? They did it! It happened!

I still want to see the evidence. This is not a Saints issue, this is something that ALL fans of football and the NFL should be interested in.

Why? Because your sport being run by a person who knowingly lied to Congress about concussions. … Who burned evidence in the Spygate case. … And who is still now refusing to provide evidence that any Saints player or coach (other than Gregg Williams) was involved in a pay-to-injure scheme.

Goodell is slimy and needs to be gone from the game before he makes things even worse than they already are.

To those saying we need to see the evidence or due process, this is not a criminal or civil court. It is a company punishing its own employees and they are not required to divulge the information to us.

The players who were suspended may need to tread carefully, in particular Vilma, because if they go to federal court for this the evidence divulged in that case could be used against them in civil or criminal court. It is unlikely but still possible that a criminal charge could be brought for paying to inflict bodily harm on someone.

That is the coolest thing I’ve ever read.

I want you to go about your day knowing that is the greatest post anyone ever made in any forum anywhere.

You do realize that only 2 of the 4 players actually still play for the Saints, and only 1, Vilma, has had any real impact for them recently. Add to the fact that the Saints signed 2 of the best LB’s in the offseason, and this suspension won’t hurt them at all.. So, Suck it, lolb23.. Maybe have a clue before posting
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How about the fact that they will be coached by half a coaching staff? If you think this has no effect, you’re dreaming.

Week 2 – Panthers 49, Saints 21 (with 14 of those coming in the 4th quarter after Carolina has put its 5th-stringers in)