Ummmmmm, dude? You obviously know what computers are. So, why is it that you think the NFL is keeping all of it’s 1500 pages of evidence in a really big trapperkeeper?

/or for that matter, completely disorganized?

It’s easy to black-out a name. If this evidence that these or any players were paying for other players to get hurt is so tight, you’re right we shoulda want the evidence presented. If it means criminal charges, so be it. If the NFL has been blowing this up with no evidence AND the NFL doesn’t change those punishment, I don’t care.

How doesn’t showing the proof, minus the names of the whistleblowers, annoy anyone?

So in other words, the guy is a crybaby d-bag who thinks the public will side with his client?
Wow, that makes him a STUPID crybaby d-bag.

Signed,
The rest of the world NOT Saints fans

Remember during the steroid scandal in MLB how everyone involved denied everything to the league and media? But once the Feds got involved and they had to testify under oath before congress and face perjury charges, and obstruction of justice and federal prison, the story changed or people took the 5th. And afterward the excuses for the lies to the media and MLB were that they were afraid, and ashamed.

There have already been threats by Congress to begin a criminal investigation into these activities. Once the feds get involved with unlimited resources and budget and subpoena power, things will change. Why does it have to come to that?

These guys know their involvement. There are 18,000 pages of testimony and evidence. The league does not want every single ugly detail to be made public. The people whose testimony is recorded will be subjected to public vilification simply for telling the truth. Careers will be affected both by the ones who were honest and the ones who weren’t. Why are these guys forcing the hand of judicial recourse?

If Congress subpoenas these guys and the FBI investigates criminal wrong-doing, I think we will be hearing that the reason they lied to the Commish and the media was because they were afraid and ashamed, etc… Right now it is this guys word against the other guys. The only thing at stake is game time and money.

I’m willing to bet none of them will risk prison for their stories.

Very well said sir. You pretty much expressed my feelings on this whole mess. The NFL has to explain how they have come to their conclusions or they will lose fans and obtain a black eye. All these guys saying the NFL doesn’t have to explain their evidence will be singing a different tune as soon as their team is being accused of something without evidence shown.

Us opponents can appreciate your passion and belief that any assault on the shield must be met with swift and severe consequences. However, you should equally appreciate our position that, while assaults on the shield must be met severely, there has to be measures in place to protect from the arbitrary rulings of Goodell.

For instance, if we can all agree that SpyGate had more of an impact on competitive balance than Bountygate (how could it not?), then how can NFL employees be subject to a system that punishes offenders worse for a lesser offense against the shield? This is the biggest problem that opponents have with Goodell….not that he is a bad person. It’s just that there is an air of arbitrariness surrounding his decisions. This must be corrected somehow especially when livelihoods such as Vilmas are on the line.

Pacman got suspended after multiple arrests, but not a single conviction. He wasn’t even ‘guilty’ of anything. But the suspension held.

Even if there was no ‘pay for injury’ aspect of the bounty as you have been accused of, there was still a pay for performance program. The coaches have since admitted it. Some of the players have admitted it. You were questioned about it and lied about it. Any type of pay for performance program has been against NFL rules since you were born. You knew it was against the rules, that’s why you lied when you were questioned. Again, Greg Williams has taken responsibility. Loomis admitted but claimed it wasn’t his fault. Peyton’s defense wasn’t “there was no program” but rather “There was, but I didn’t know about it”.

Just give it up. You did wrong. Arguing the details don’t really matter at this point.

Point is, most people called Saints fans crazy when this story broke. Either because we stood by our team and didn’t line up to burn them at the stake, or as delusional fans not able to see passed our black and gold shaded glasses. I will agree most of our fans are so loyal we could be delusional. But we clearly saw the issue at hand. We watch all the Saints games, it was 100% obvious our team was not going out each week and trying to hurt the other teams players. At least no more so than any other team each given week.

To have your team dragged through the mud repeatedly is not easy to watch. Especially when in the first two months the media NEVER asked the questions only Saints fans were asking. It wasn’t long ago, we as Saints fans were told to get a life, shut up, etc, because we said, WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Everyone simply took what the NFL spoon-fed to the media, the media regurgitated that to the public and it seemed everyone wanted second helpings.

NOW the media is the one starting to realize the dots in this story don’t exactly connect. They are starting to realize that 50,000 pages of evidence, zero “cart-off” player injuries during this supposed bounty period, and appeals by ALL parties involved except the one person (Williams) who faces indefinite suspension unless he fully cooperates.

I’m positive my team had some form of pay for performance program in place. I also know Williams stepped over the line in his pre-game speech, at least with the 49ers game. But I’ve watched 50+ Saints games over the past 3 years. And I can honestly say, I’ve never once thought Saints players were dirty or trying to injure other players. The Saint haters will brush this comment off as a delusional Saints fan. But I’m not…my head is on straight…I believe in taking responsibility for ones actions. If my team was guitly of this, I’d want them to pay a price and ensure it doesn’t happen again.

Show us the evidence, black out the informants names. I don’t need a witch hunt. I just need to know the NFL didn’t railroad my team because it needed a sacrifice to appease the lion at the gates…that being the 1600 ex-NFL players ready to sue the league over player safety.

To the they need to show the evidence people…this isn’t a court of law, and if it was I’m sure the NFL would drag their feet during Discovery with various objections in the Interrogatory Responses to the Discovery requests. Do you really think there is a successful legal strategy in tipping your hand?

A contract is a contract usmutts…anyone willing to sign away rights provided them is allowed to, it is their right to allow others to limit theirs. They agreed to the terms…they might not have understood them entirely, but they agreed to them none the less.

Get over it Taint fans…take your medicine with the rest of your team.

Or at least, “Wait till Dad gets home and we’ll ask him.”

You sound like a shill for the union / lawyer for Vilma.

So every player that is suspended for conduct detrimental to the League, illegal drugs, late hits, PHDs, etc., should have a full trial where lawyers make money and the sport becomes a joke.

Whether one thinks Goodell is a good or bad commissioner is irrelevant, he’s the commissioner and the NFLPA and owners agreed to this format.

Like it or not it is what it is.

Exactly! Check all of the confessions. If they admitted to anything, it was a PayForPerformance program (interceptions, fumbles, etc), not a Bounty program. What the league’s been doing from the start is conflating the 2, talking about the P4P program in a way that made it sound like it was talking about a Bounty program. Because they know it’s only the bounty stuff that’s horrifying people, not a veteran paying a rookie special teamer for a fumble recovery.

All I’m asking is, if you absolutely know the Saints are guilty of a Bounty program, what’s you’re evidence? Lay it out for me with direct quotes. Have you actually seen any, or are you just buying what the commish is feeding you?

This is Duke Lacrosse all over again.

Id imagine not many.

It’s one thing to like Vilma or dislike him. But to suggest he’s in the wrong for wanting to know why he’s being docked a few Mill doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.

i just hate the saints more and more each time one of these turds files another appeal.

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“Thank you sir, may I have another?”

I want a trial date so Vilma and everyone else start to turn on each other once perjury becomes punitive.