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Report: League may eventually release some bounty evidence

Houston Texans v New Orleans Saints Getty Images

The NFL apparently has heard the concerns regarding the spoon-feeding of summaries, characterizations, and conclusions regarding the Saints bounty scandal to the media, in the hopes that the media will then spoon-feed without scrutiny that same information to the public.

Sorry, NFL, but I can’t and won’t do it.

As I’ve said a time or two, if the NFL is going to make this matter to public by accusing players of funding and receiving funds from a bounty system, I need raw evidence — especially when there seems to be a disconnect between the raw evidence that has become available and the summaries, characterizations, and conclusions the NFL has disseminated.

That may change.  Sort of.

Judy Battista of the New York Times reports that, after the player appeals have concluded, the league may publicly release some evidence, “with sources carefully masked.”  The league continues to be concerned that, if some sources are identified, players will be able to figure out who blew the whistle in 2011.

That’s a cop out.  Once the whistle has been blown and people start talking to the league not secretly but in response to direct questions from the league office, the importance of protecting the perceived “snitch” evaporates.  Assuming former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has confessed to maintaining and funding a bounty system, he surely has told the NFL which players helped him set it up.  So why not release one of his statements or interviews?  He’s not the whistleblower, and he deserves no such protection.

The same goes for Joe Vitt and Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis and any other person who gave information not because they wanted to but because they had to.

Still, the league seems to be blurring the line between whistleblower and witness in order to justify giving those in the media inclined to not take what the league feeds us at face value something that can’t be properly and fully picked apart and put back together.

In the end, none of it may matter.  At some point, the NFLPA and/or the lawyers representing the suspended players will likely land in a forum that forces the NFL to release raw data and, no matter how hard the NFL tries to keep the information confidential, it eventually will be released in open court — after a judge explains to the NFL’s lawyers that only the person who actually blew the whistle is entitled to any type of protection.

Even then, a case can be made that the person who blew the whistle isn’t entitled to full and complete anonymity, especially if that person had evidence that no other witness could provide.

Once again, we’re not a third-world country where witnesses testify behind a curtain.  At some point, every witness/whistleblower may need to be identified, and if retaliation occurs the persons who retaliate will be held accountable.

If that ever happens, hopefully the raw evidence to prove retaliation will be made available in that case, too.

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87 Responses to “Report: League may eventually release some bounty evidence”
  1. karlsummers says: May 16, 2012 11:02 AM

    I’m surprised they’re doing this. I guess it’s because the Saints’ owner is not in bed with Goodell. If it were Kraft, Goodell would have destroyed the evidence.

  2. lolb23 says: May 16, 2012 11:05 AM

    Get your shrimp gumbo ready.

  3. lolb23 says: May 16, 2012 11:06 AM

    I’m surprised they’re doing this.
    ____________________________

    That’s because you’re a stupid homer.

  4. paallday says: May 16, 2012 11:06 AM

    Thank you, Mike, for not reporting anything that the league has “spoon-fed” to the media about the Saints bounty scandal as if it were 100% fact. You truly are the personification of journalistic integrity.

  5. jrock3x8 says: May 16, 2012 11:06 AM

    this is where the league absolutely can not win.

    if they go all crazy and release all the evidence, they tarnish the names of everyone involved and their careers and their fans may not be able to forgive them and the league takes a huge image hit.

    if hey don’t release any information then the other side says well you don’t have any evidence and you’re just a big bad regime and we don’t trust you.

    There’s no way for the league to come out of this looking good and frankly what they are doing is all they can do.

  6. The Deep Dig says: May 16, 2012 11:07 AM

    Roger Goodell is trying to offer “exposing informant” excuse for not providing evidence. Highly questionable and borderline criminal considering the effect this has both financially to individuals and their character.

    It’s time to strongly examine the tactical merits of the NFL commissioner on this issue. Looks to be playing image over substance.

  7. myspaceyourface says: May 16, 2012 11:08 AM

    “This stuff is plutonium. No one can touch it without getting burned”. – Mark Walburg (shooter)

  8. pftcensorssuck says: May 16, 2012 11:09 AM

    I don’t know why you – and so many others – keep questioning the total authority of Roger Gooddell, as entrusted by the 32 Owners he serves by, and the CBA that the NFLPA has agreed to.

    Only one person needs to see the evidence, only one person has the authority to make a decision of guilt or inocence, and only one person has the ability to mete out punishment.

    This ISN’T the “American Judicial System”, it’s the NFL.

    Roger Gooddell owes nothing to PFT, the New Orleans Saints, Sean Payton, Gregg Williams, Joe Vitt, Mickey “Wiretap” Loomis, or any of the suspended players.

    Why is that so hard for so many of you to understand?

  9. 2009superbowlchampionsneworleanssaints says: May 16, 2012 11:11 AM

    *

  10. sgtr0c says: May 16, 2012 11:13 AM

    Isn’t Williams’s admission of guilt proof? That fact alone should prove that there is evidence. Or was he framed into admitting stating that?
    You seem to be trying to turn this into a civil case when at the core it is a labor dispute. I don’t think the contracts written for the NFL have a clause that says you will be treated fairly at all times………

  11. sb44champs says: May 16, 2012 11:15 AM

    What evidence?

  12. sb44champs says: May 16, 2012 11:17 AM

    2009superbowlchampionsneworleanssaints… you’re a loser if you are that vindictive, lol!!!

  13. caliangel08 says: May 16, 2012 11:24 AM

    Get this matter in a court room before any penalties can be enforced . The NFL constantly wants access to public funds and acts like this ??? Sounds like Goodell has low to no evidence or it goes into other systems on other teams and Goodell is trying to contain it .

  14. bullcharger says: May 16, 2012 11:25 AM

    That doesn’t make sense. The NFL isn’t obligated to provide evidence to the public just because they suspended players publicly. Maybe they have to provide evidence to the NFLPA, but not the media.

    Also, this site and others have been spoon-feeding everything from the NFL. Yeah, there has been the odd cry for evidence, but really the media has really enjoyed this whole scandal to keep the offseason busy and has been happy to report everything the NFL says without any evidence ever being shown.

  15. dcalisto1 says: May 16, 2012 11:26 AM

    Goodell can be accused of many things, arrogance, egomaniac, etc, but one thing he cannot be accused of is being stupid. You may not agree with how he handles things, but let’s face it. These guys, Peyton, Williams, Loomis etc certainly laid down. There was no fight because they knew they were nailed to the wall!. Goodell owes NO ONE an explanation. As someone earlier stated, this is not the judicial system. He does not owe you, me or the media any explanation of his reasoning. He is judged solely by the 32 owners! They decide whether to keep him or not. If they get fed up with his decisions or antics then they will deal with it. Last I heard, his contract has been extended.

    The evidence is there. We may never see it, but innocent people do not lay down.

  16. ilovefoolsball says: May 16, 2012 11:26 AM

    @pftcensorssuck

    True this isn’t the American judicial system, it’s a company.
    Is it totally beyond the realm of believability that a CEO of a company could be y’know, WRONG on something?
    It’s not like this hasn’t happened at big companies before.
    Why do you view everything that the commissar does as truth? You’re the same as everyone who enabled the corrupt banking companies from doing whatever they wanted because it was in the “best interest” of the investors.

  17. sj39 says: May 16, 2012 11:30 AM

    You sir, are a wet noodle.

  18. sdisme says: May 16, 2012 11:31 AM

    If the players win the appeal we may see the evidence or the NFL caving and going hide.

    If the NFL wins the appeals — the fans lose, because we learn the league will never be held accountable and you have to start questioning integrity.

    Regardless of what team you are a fan of, you should want the evidence released.

  19. booker1974 says: May 16, 2012 11:42 AM

    The identity of the snitch it out there — Mike Cerillo, a former quality control coach who was fired from the team in 2010 and wanted to get back at Payton and Williams.

    As far as the rest of the “evidence,” as we’ve seen with Hargrove’s declaration, the league’s interpretation isn’t always honest. No where in Gregg Williams’ “confession,” which was provided to him by the league, are bounties mentioned, only a “pay for performance” program for big plays. The alleged bounties against Rodgers and Newton were based on email comments that a rational person could see were jokes not to be taken seriously.

    The league appears to have taken a lot of things out of context to weave a bounty narrative that just doesn’t match up with reality. The pay for performance pool was against league rules, and should have been stopped, but that’s a far cry from allegations of pay to injure or putting bounties on other players. If they feel there’s enough to justify suspending Payton and Vilma for a full year, they need to put it out there.

  20. booker1974 says: May 16, 2012 11:42 AM

    Correction — the name of the snitch is Mike Cerullo.

  21. xxwhodatxx says: May 16, 2012 11:43 AM

    As soon as they fabricate some it’ll be released.

  22. geauxjay says: May 16, 2012 11:47 AM

    The league had no problems throwing Hargrove and Ornstein’s names out there, though.

    Another blatant contradiction.

  23. olcap says: May 16, 2012 11:48 AM

    What? Did Goodell detect a lessening of the whining from Saints fans or something? This will surely increase the whining, I would think.

  24. benh999 says: May 16, 2012 11:49 AM

    Why not exercise that jurist brain of yours and draw a few easily drawn conclusions?

    1. The league would like nothing more than to release the evidence they have and silence critics, allowing the scandal’s media coverage to die down significantly.
    2. The league wants to protect witness statements, perhaps because such protection was a prerequisite for those witnesses testifying against their own teammates/players.
    3. The appealing players realize that the league is trying to protect sources by not publicly giving specifics on how they know what they know and are using it to their advantage by claiming there is no evidence.

  25. geauxjay says: May 16, 2012 11:50 AM

    Why do you view everything that the commissar does as truth? You’re the same as everyone who enabled the corrupt banking companies from doing whatever they wanted because it was in the “best interest” of the investors.

    _________________________________

    Because our leaders are beyond reproach. Like the time when we fought a war in Iraq because the president said we found WMDs in Iraq and nobody questioned him because he was the president and he wouldn’t lie.

  26. nolarules says: May 16, 2012 11:51 AM

    Just a quick question for all haters:
    Let’s use the Vikings as an example.
    Say Goodell comes out and pulls these same antics with the Vikings next year (suspending players, coaches, fines, etc but refusing to provide any direct evidence). The Vikings have just been provided PUBLIC financing for part their new stadium. Does the public deserve to be assured 100% that these punishments are fair and just by providing the evidence or should they be denied any evidence even though it is THEIR money that is being used by the NFL and the Vikings to build a new stadium? Just wondering what the feelings are. Completely understand that this is the NFL and not a US court room. But the public is financing many of these teams stadiums (Louisiana has been dolling out taxpayer money to Benson, the Saints and the NFL for years). It is my opinion that the NFL should release the evidence and put this to bed. We Saints fans see exactly what it is that our team did, accept the now proven facts and everyone can move on.

  27. realdealsteel says: May 16, 2012 11:51 AM

    League has no on the field bounty evidence whatsoever. That’s the travesty of this whole thing.

    Adolph Hitler Goodall using the Saints as examples of what he’s trying to do to make the game safer. Period..end of story.

  28. saintsvstheworld says: May 16, 2012 11:51 AM

    WHO DAT!

  29. govtminion says: May 16, 2012 11:53 AM

    “We’ll begin releasing this information the day after the Super Bowl so as not to interfere with football operations this season. That… sounds really official and stuff, right? Hey, how about that Peyton Manning, eh?”

  30. realdealsteel says: May 16, 2012 11:54 AM

    If this case went to court, the NFL would lose in a big way.

    If you and I talked about robbing a bank…but never robbed the bank..then we can’t be charged and convicted for robbing a bank.

    That is what this basically is.

  31. sb44champs says: May 16, 2012 11:54 AM

    The evidence is there. We may never see it, but innocent people do not lay down.
    —————————————–
    Innocent people lay down to dictators!!!

  32. sloppydogg says: May 16, 2012 11:54 AM

    Okay now we are worried about hurting the fans if the truth comes out that there was a bounty, come on spare me the abuse. We as fans ( Saint’s ) can’t be hurt any more then we are i just want to get this behind the fans so we can enjoy this upcoming season. At this point Goodell has gotten a great deal of coverage, the stuff he likes power can create good things and also can destroy as well. So give the fans, media and the entire Nfl family the truth. So we can put this mess to bed or burn the evidence like water gate ( pat’s )…………..lol

  33. sdisme says: May 16, 2012 11:54 AM

    “dcalisto1 says:May 16, 2012 11:26 AM

    Goodell can be accused of many things, arrogance, egomaniac, etc, but one thing he cannot be accused of is being stupid. You may not agree with how he handles things, but let’s face it. These guys, Peyton, Williams, Loomis etc certainly laid down. There was no fight because they knew they were nailed to the wall!. Goodell owes NO ONE an explanation. As someone earlier stated, this is not the judicial system. He does not owe you, me or the media any explanation of his reasoning. He is judged solely by the 32 owners!”

    ________________________

    Your statement is true if you don’t want integrity in the game of football.

  34. CKL says: May 16, 2012 11:58 AM

    karlsummers says: May 16, 2012 11:02 AM

    I’m surprised they’re doing this. I guess it’s because the Saints’ owner is not in bed with Goodell. If it were Kraft, Goodell would have destroyed the evidence.
    _________________________________
    This type of ignorance is exactly why it does nothing for Goodell’s case or public opinion to release “evidence”. He (or someone associated with the league) made sure we all were able to see some of the cameragate tapes on Fox via Glazer and other places. But people are STILL crying that they saw no evidence. What, you wanted a 24 hour cameragate channel where every tape was shown nonstop 24-7? You and your ilk would only be whining about there being STILL MORE “evidence” being withheld.

    Nothing will satisfy people who want to willfully remain ignorant and maintain ignorant opinions.

  35. silentcount says: May 16, 2012 12:03 PM

    Goodell opened a can of worms, when the REAL EVIDENCE is what happens on the field while refs are watching your every move. Players buying each other a beer for a game winning interception or sack is human nature, not a bounty system. It’s time for a new commish who makes smart decisions instead of trying to cover his mistakes.

  36. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 12:04 PM

    If I am not mistaken, whistleblower laws protect the individual from retaliation by the corporation.

    Now, what does it say about the NFL that it feels it needs to protect these so-called “whistleblowers” from its own employees?

    They are either admitting to a league-wide culture of violence and as such, a “lack of institutional control” (ironically, this is what Sean Payton was suspended for), or they are simply covering their behinds.

    I want this to go to federal court. If my team comes off looking worse, so be it. Contrary to what some people believe, the NFL DOES owe the fans an explanation, because we’re the ones that line their pockets with cash.

  37. thcnote says: May 16, 2012 12:09 PM

    All the evidence I needed was when everyone involved started claiming it was all just a joke. The last act of a desperate team.

  38. boisestatewhodat says: May 16, 2012 12:13 PM

    My wish list:

    1. I wish my purple team was as good as the 2009 World Champion Saints.

    2. I wish we wouldn’t have signed our arch nemesis to lead our team because it really made us look silly and desperate.

    3. I wish Adrian Fumbleson wouldn’t have coughed the ball up 4 times.

    4. I wish Childress wouldn’t have had 12 men in the huddle.

    5. I wish Favre would have just ran instead of doing what he’s always done.

    6. I wish I could just stop crying…boo hoo hoo hoo!

    Signed,
    Typical purple fan

  39. dvdman123 says: May 16, 2012 12:13 PM

    Oh my not this bountygate stuff again. It’s done folks…..time for PFT and everyone else to move along.

  40. FinFan68 says: May 16, 2012 12:13 PM

    The articles on this site seemed to assume the coaches were guilty and there was a huge scandal with the bounty scenario. Now that players have been implicated/disciplined, the site is demanding evidence made public. Why the double standard? Maybe a bit of hero worship. The bottom line is simple: there could be no “bounty system” unless players were involved. If you do not believe the players are culpable, then you should be demanding Goodell rescind the punishment levied on the coaches. You aren’t because you know there was a program and by definition some players must be involved.

    There will be no smoking gun. If you or anyone else is expecting some sort of ledger, with the Saints logo on the cover, that has a statement like: “Date–Jan 24, 2010; Player–Favre; Bounty–$10,000; Supplied by–Vilma; Collected by–______.” you are delusional. It will not be like that.

  41. anarchopurplism says: May 16, 2012 12:14 PM

    This isn’t a court of law….this is the NFL.

    You want all the evidence? Then sue the NFL and get the info in discovery.

    Until then, the NFL will release as little as possible so that further damage to other parties….”snitches”…..is not caused.

    Saints fans should focus their energy on getting Brees and the team to meet in the middle!

  42. musicman495 says: May 16, 2012 12:15 PM

    I cannot believe the people on this site who think that because Roger Goodell is the head of a private monopoly corporation, that he does not have to answer to anyone or anything – not the U.S. Constitution, or U.S. Congress, or the Federal Courts, or the NFLPA. He can suspend whomever he wants for any reason, deprive that person of his livelihood for as long as he likes, and provide no evidence to anyone – not even the person deprived of his livelihood – just “because he is the Commissioner” And it is fine that he uses his economic power and influence with organizations like ESPN and Fox who are his business partners to ensure their silence. If Goodell were a politician, people would say he was acting like Hitler or Castro. Is he a sports commissioner or a Mob boss?

  43. kathyisintheroom says: May 16, 2012 12:27 PM

    I think booker1974 said it best.

    A disgruntled ex-employee wanting to get revenge on his ex employers(Payton and Williams) contacts the NFL with inflated allegations.
    Goodell in his search for a sacrificial lamb to show how serious he is about player safety jumps on the attack against the Saints with blinders on.
    However he only has one ex-employee, a convict who sent 2 joking emails, a “confession” from a player that turns out to not be a confession after all, only a statement that the league spinned out of context, and a statement from Williams that the league threatened him to sign or never coach again.

    Yea, it seems like the league has very strong evidence to me.

  44. The Deep Dig says: May 16, 2012 12:28 PM

    Drop Bountygate?? Tell that to Vilma who’s losing massive money.

  45. comeonnowguys says: May 16, 2012 12:29 PM

    You can’t do it.

    Then Saints fans would have nothing to complain about all day.

  46. karlsummers says: May 16, 2012 12:29 PM

    If there is any evidence whatsoever that Sean Payton was involved in any way in bountygate, then it needs to be released NOW. You don’t suspend someone for an entire season just because he’s the head coach of a team involved.

  47. The Deep Dig says: May 16, 2012 12:33 PM

    Usually the people who think Roger Goodell doesn’t have to answer are conservative Republicans who enjoy management coming down hard on employees.

  48. silentcount says: May 16, 2012 12:36 PM

    THE FACTS: Greg Williams never admitted to the term “Bounty System” which is what Goodell invented. Williams simply admitted that words were spoken of a pay-for-good legal hits. Sean Payton couldn’t believe that his team was being singled out by Goodell when all teams speak the same language in pre-game pep rallys. The players strongly deny that they put up or received money to intentionally injure other players. If there’s no evidence that they did, then Goodell should be fired for slander.

  49. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 12:44 PM

    benh999 says: May 16, 2012 11:49 AM

    Why not exercise that jurist brain of yours and draw a few easily drawn conclusions?

    1. The league would like nothing more than to release the evidence they have and silence critics, allowing the scandal’s media coverage to die down significantly.
    2. The league wants to protect witness statements, perhaps because such protection was a prerequisite for those witnesses testifying against their own teammates/players.
    3. The appealing players realize that the league is trying to protect sources by not publicly giving specifics on how they know what they know and are using it to their advantage by claiming there is no evidence.

    ————————————————————–

    The problem is, the league has already been shown to mischaracterize statements from both Gregg Williams and Anthony Hargrove as part of their “evidence,” thus putting its credibility in question. Nobody started sniffing around until those statements were released and showed how questionable the league office has been with its supposed “proof”.

    If this all goes to federal court, I have a feeling the lead investigator that resigned will suddenly have a lot to say.

  50. YouGetTheHorns says: May 16, 2012 12:44 PM

    boisestatewhodat says:

    It isn’t fair! They have no evidence! It’s a dictatorship! Whaaaaaa! Whaaaaa!
    I’d cry myself a river, but I’m below sea level!

    Signed,
    Typical Taints Fan

  51. boisestatewhodat says: May 16, 2012 12:50 PM

    Notice the senitment beginning to change? Maybe there’s more to this than meets the eye…my guess is, there’s so much more yet to surface and it will leave massive amounts of egg on the face of the NFL. Payton, Loomis, Vitt, the players and even Williams could all be reinstated once the real truth comes out…the real truth meaning…zero evidence to support any of this. The Williams speech is what it is…nothing more than a motivational speech to grown men who chose football as a way of life. The comment everyone wants to hang onto ‘kill the head and the body will die’ was coined by Hunter S. Thompson and is meant only figuratively to convey the fact that if you get in someone’s head and change the behavior they will fail or, in times of war, kill the general and the Army will fail. The media has made it sinister…and that is all.

  52. 2009superbowlchampionsneworleanssaints says: May 16, 2012 12:50 PM

    My wish list:

    1. I wish my purple team was as good as the 2009 World Champion Saints*

    2. I wish we wouldn’t have signed our arch nemesis to lead our team because it really made us look silly and desperate.

    3. I wish Adrian Fumbleson wouldn’t have coughed the ball up 4 times.

    4. I wish Childress wouldn’t have had 12 men in the huddle.

    5. I wish Favre would have just ran instead of doing what he’s always done.

    6. I wish I could just stop crying…boo hoo hoo hoo!

    Signed,
    Typical purple fan

  53. booker1974 says: May 16, 2012 12:51 PM

    Commenting on an interesting double standard. When the Saints coaches appealed the punishments they were criticized for it for not truly accepting responsibility and there were posts here that their punishment should be doubled. Meanwhile Goodell called them liars and said they were continuing to lie to him, apparently regarding any explanation outside of the narrative he had built as a lie (ex. Payton: “Ornstein — in jail, broke, cheapskate — was making jokes in emails to coaches referencing inside joke of previous bounty allegation made by the Vikings”; Goodell: “No, you’re lying, this is proof of a systemic bounty system funded by felons outside the organization that you were aware of and involved in.”) My view is that they accepted that fighting against Goodell was futile and would only make matters worse. Not wanting to buck the guy who can control the future of your career doesn’t mean they agree with his findings.

  54. boisestatewhodat says: May 16, 2012 12:51 PM

    Oh I got the horns…our lombardi sits atop them!

  55. kathyisintheroom says: May 16, 2012 12:51 PM

    I think Williams should man up and do the right thing.

    Goodell basically threatened Williams by saying he MAY earn reinstatement IF he does all the right things and SAYS/SPEAKS the right things in assisting the NFL with this matter.

    So he wants Williams to admit about bounties(which he has not yet) and testify against players and coaches if needed or back up the leagues version against thost players and coaches.

    If Williams doesn’t do those things he can be assured of never coaching again. If he does play with Goodell, then he MAY get to coach again, but no player will respect him, and the only coach likely to hire him will be Fisher.

    Williams should be a man, do the right thing, and state loudly and assertively that “bountygate” never existed. That Goodell is spinning facts, making up evidence, threatening and extorting people with their careers, and back up his players 100%

  56. easyeddie says: May 16, 2012 1:02 PM

    The Deep Dig says:
    Usually the people who think Roger Goodell doesn’t have to answer are conservative Republicans who enjoy management coming down hard on employees.
    ———————————
    And those who think he does have to answer are usually dimwit leftist sheep who hate any kind of authority figure and think employees can do whatever the hell they think is OK without repurcussions.

    kathyisintheroom says:
    Williams should be a man, do the right thing, and state loudly and assertively that “bountygate” never existed. That Goodell is spinning facts, making up evidence, threatening and extorting people with their careers, and back up his players 100%
    ———————
    What evidence has Goodell made up? I’d love to see what you have.

  57. txraidersfan says: May 16, 2012 1:03 PM

    Can we just move on already. What done is done.

  58. ilovefoolsball says: May 16, 2012 1:12 PM

    If GODdell had an independent panel that had to review everything instead of him being the dictator in chief he would already be gone.

  59. flannlv says: May 16, 2012 1:15 PM

    Saw a highlight of a Ravens game (on NFLN) and in the pre game pep talk R. Lewis is heard saying, “It’s time to knock someone out.” Oh no!!!

  60. The Deep Dig says: May 16, 2012 1:16 PM

    “dimwit leftist sheep” >>typical name-calling comment from conservatives.

    Honestly, these types of fans are what’s worst in sports. They judge threw politics instead of play, management title instead actual substance.

  61. The Deep Dig says: May 16, 2012 1:22 PM

    through

  62. mornelithe says: May 16, 2012 1:22 PM

    Every move the Players, NFLPA, NFL and shamed coaching staff make right now, are PR related. No one has any actual ability to force the NFL to show any of the evidence they have, unless this goes to court. Once it goes to court, disclosure is required.

    Until then, it’s a private company attempting to handle a very large in-house fiasco. Still, at least there’s the comic relief aspect of everyone crying foul, like it’s our right to see all of this evidence or something (FYI, it isn’t, and this is how companies have been working for quite some time).

    Once a warning has been issued by a company internally, they only need the tiniest _fragment_ of evidence to bring down the hammer.

  63. pftcensorssuck says: May 16, 2012 1:30 PM

    geauxjay says:May 16, 2012 11:50 AM

    Why do you view everything that the commissar does as truth? You’re the same as everyone who enabled the corrupt banking companies from doing whatever they wanted because it was in the “best interest” of the investors.

    _________________________________

    Because our leaders are beyond reproach. Like the time when we fought a war in Iraq because the president said we found WMDs in Iraq and nobody questioned him because he was the president and he wouldn’t lie.
    ———————————————————-
    So you both are equating the authority of one man over a corporation he rules, to the President of the United States committing our armed forces to an actual war, and private firms who violated federal banking statutes that cost taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars in an economic rebuilding …..

    SERIOUSLY?

    Roger Gooddell serves at the pleasure of the 32 Owners of NFL franchises. These owners have vested in Gooddell the powers of the Commissioner’s office. The players – through their union, the NFLPA – have agreed to abide by this authority.

    Gooddell saw enough evidience to issue the punishments he did. It’s within his authority to do so, and he owes no “proof” to anyone.

    I’m not saying I like that, I’m saying that’s the way it IS.

  64. saintsfan26 says: May 16, 2012 1:31 PM

    Its obviously not done. In America you cant just make accusations and ruin somebody’s reputation without showing proof. What country did you grow up in?

  65. saintwho says: May 16, 2012 1:33 PM

    lol if your dictator says lay down and take this punishment I am going to give you and shut up… you will do exactly that if that same dictator is the only person that can allow you back into the league. Innocent people lay down all the time.

  66. lawyermalloy says: May 16, 2012 1:34 PM

    Who cares? When the “Comish” is the judge, jury and executioner, there is no need for dispositive evidence; the evidence is whatever HE says it is.
    There are NO rules of evidence, there are no other rules. The NFLPA granted him the power and he’s exercising it. Right, wrong our indifferent, the parties agreed to this process and that’s it!
    Florio, you just have to let this go, it’s unhealty !

  67. robf2010 says: May 16, 2012 1:37 PM

    Hey, I have an idea. Let’s say this isn’t a court of “law” and then hide behind whistleblower “law”.

  68. The Deep Dig says: May 16, 2012 1:51 PM

    Very weak and defeatist response from Lawyer Milloy.

  69. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 2:01 PM

    pftcensorssuck says: May 16, 2012 1:30 PM

    Gooddell saw enough evidience to issue the punishments he did. It’s within his authority to do so, and he owes no “proof” to anyone.

    —————————————————————

    Ultimately, he answers to the public because that’s where the money is coming from. Public scrutiny is the ONLY reason the NFL has come out with this latest statement saying that they MIGHT release PARTIAL evidence.

    But that’s not good enough. If the NFL wants my continued fan dollars they will need to be a little more forthright and honest instead of spinning their little hack PR campaign.

  70. pftcensorssuck says: May 16, 2012 2:02 PM

    saintsfan26 says:May 16, 2012 1:31 PM

    Its obviously not done. In America you cant just make accusations and ruin somebody’s reputation without showing proof. What country did you grow up in?
    ———————————————————
    One problem with that, Einstein.

    The NFL is a PRIVATE CORPORATION.

    They get to decide what the rules are, and how they want to enforce them.

    You’re talking like a typical idiot who equates the running of a private company to the United States Judicial System.

    If the government wants to punish somebody, THEY have a legal obligation to furnish evidence.

    Private businesses have every legal right to self-governance.

    That’s how it works, in MY country. You know, the free-est country in the world?

  71. yooperman says: May 16, 2012 2:06 PM

    realdealsteel says:
    “If you and I talked about robbing a bank…but never robbed the bank…then we can’t be charged and convicted for robbing a bank.”

    If you and I offered money to someone to injury another person, and he turned us in, there would be 12 of our peers (not Goodell) deciding how much time we would get.

    Maybe the NFL doesn’t want this to end up real court.

  72. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 2:06 PM

    easyeddie says: May 16, 2012 1:02 PM
    What evidence has Goodell made up? I’d love to see what you have.

    —————————————————————-

    At the very least, we know the league office issued press release mischaracterizing the statements of Anthony Hargrove and Gregg Williams.

    If nothing else, that at least calls into question the existence of other supposed “evidence”.

  73. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 2:12 PM

    pftcensorssuck says: May 16, 2012 2:02 PM

    One problem with that, Einstein.

    The NFL is a PRIVATE CORPORATION.

    —————————————————————

    A private corporation that exists only because we the fans support it with our dollars. So you can’t say it doesn’t answer to the public.

    James Dimon had to answer to his public yesterday. Eventually, Roger Goodell will have to do the same.

  74. mornelithe says: May 16, 2012 2:28 PM

    @Mdd913:

    “A private corporation that exists only because we the fans support it with our dollars. So you can’t say it doesn’t answer to the public.

    James Dimon had to answer to his public yesterday. Eventually, Roger Goodell will have to do the same.”

    Big Business and Private industry have been running _EXACTLY_ the same way for well beyond a decade now, and the common consumer has done exactly ZERO to hold them responsible. What makes you think their attention span in this matter is going to amount to anything more?

    Like it or not, the laws right now, currently allow businesses to function this way. That’s just how it is. Now, I certainly encourage you to try to do something about it, but that amounts to actually holding Big Business accountable…pretty sure we do nothing about it outside of football, I think it’s highly unlikely that the outcome of this will be any different.

  75. easyeddie says: May 16, 2012 3:08 PM

    0 i

    Rate This
    mdd913 says:
    May 16, 2012 2:06 PM
    easyeddie says: May 16, 2012 1:02 PM
    What evidence has Goodell made up? I’d love to see what you have.

    —————————————————————-

    At the very least, we know the league office issued press release mischaracterizing the statements of Anthony Hargrove and Gregg Williams.

    If nothing else, that at least calls into question the existence of other supposed “evidence”.
    ————————————

    Sorry, but NFLPA spin/red herrings or same from player attorney’s aren’t “proof.”
    If you think it is, it’s no wonder you have the opinion you do.

  76. klunge says: May 16, 2012 3:28 PM

    realdealsteel says:
    May 16, 2012 11:54 AM
    If you and I talked about robbing a bank…but never robbed the bank..then we can’t be charged and convicted for robbing a bank.
    ————————————————-

    You are apparently unaware of a criminal charge called “conspiracy”, where people who plot to commit certain felonies have in fact committed one during the act of planning.

  77. ilovefoolsball says: May 16, 2012 3:52 PM

    klunge says:
    May 16, 2012 3:28 PM
    You are apparently unaware of a criminal charge called “conspiracy”, where people who plot to commit certain felonies have in fact committed one during the act of planning.
    _______
    If you talk about robbing a bank and commit “conspiracy” for this crime the punishment is not equal to the same crime as actually committing burglarly.

    Therefore the extreme punishments that were handed down do not fit the non-extreme actions that happened on the field.

    Commissar GODdell has fabricated evidence and inserted what he deemed to be intent into vague statements and the testimony of a disgruntled former employee.
    He has used the same type of media propoganda to garner support for his cause that politicians use against each other in smear campaigns and it’s downright shameful.

  78. nflsecurity862 says: May 16, 2012 3:54 PM

    I don’t like the idea of releasing the evidence. Can you imagine how long it would take to explain everything to Brees and these Saints fans? The league would release the evidence and Saints fans would have to wait for someone to find something in it to complain about and then start copying and pasting their responses.

  79. sf94545 says: May 16, 2012 3:57 PM

    you still need evidence to prove “conspiracy”

  80. saintsfan26 says: May 16, 2012 4:04 PM

    pftsensorssuck says
    pftcensorssuck says: May 16, 2012 2:02 PM

    saintsfan26 says:May 16, 2012 1:31 PM

    Its obviously not done. In America you cant just make accusations and ruin somebody’s reputation without showing proof. What country did you grow up in? ———————————————————One problem with that, Einstein.

    The NFL is a PRIVATE CORPORATION.

    They get to decide what the rules are, and how they want to enforce them.

    You’re talking like a typical idiot who equates the running of a private company to the United States Judicial System.

    If the government wants to punish somebody, THEY have a legal obligation to furnish evidence.

    Private businesses have every legal right to self-governance.

    That’s how it works, in MY country. You know, the free-est country in the world?
    ——————————————————————

    One problem here Buckwheat: if this is a Private Company, then i guess they shouldnt have made this such a PUBLIC witch hunt! They slandered the reputations of people

  81. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 4:15 PM

    easyeddie says: May 16, 2012 3:08 PM
    Sorry, but NFLPA spin/red herrings or same from player attorney’s aren’t “proof.”
    If you think it is, it’s no wonder you have the opinion you do.
    —————————————————-

    It is not “spin” to say that Anthony Hargrove was not told to lie, because according to his very statement, he was not told to lie.

    It is not a red herring to say that Gregg Williams admitted to “pay for performance” rather than “Pay for injury”, because according to Williams’ statement, that’s exactly what he said.

    The truth isn’t always “spin”, but even if “spin” is all it is, that’s just as valid as anything the NFL has handed down.

    Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik.

  82. mdd913 says: May 16, 2012 4:15 PM

    easyeddie says: May 16, 2012 3:08 PM
    Sorry, but NFLPA spin/red herrings or same from player attorney’s aren’t “proof.”
    If you think it is, it’s no wonder you have the opinion you do.
    —————————————————-

    It is not “spin” to say that Anthony Hargrove was not told to lie, because according to his very statement, he was not told to lie.

    It is not a red herring to say that Gregg Williams admitted to “pay for performance” rather than “Pay for injury”, because according to Williams’ statement, that’s exactly what he said.

    The truth isn’t always “spin”, but even if “spin” is all it is, that’s just as valid as anything the NFL has handed down.

    Sauce for the goose.

  83. flannlv says: May 16, 2012 5:12 PM

    For all you legal eagles out there, it doesn’t matter if the “NFL is a Private corporation” in the sense that they are still subject to the law of the land. Now, the CBA may address certain codes of conduct which could take this away from jurisdictional issues, but it wouldn’t prevent the NFLPA/players from trying to have their grievances heard by a court. This gets dicey because congress has granted the league an anti-trust exemption which is subject to review by congress.

    That being said, the simple fact that the NFL is a private corporation doesn’t inherently make them immune from the law of the land.

  84. blanchonegro says: May 16, 2012 5:33 PM

    Tell us when they do. We dont care that they may eventually.

  85. mrlaloosh says: May 16, 2012 7:44 PM

    The whole idea of godell coming down hard on the Saints is so the ideas of bounties ends here. The last thing he wants is to open of scrutiny of the other stops on Gregg Williams’ resume. It apparently all started in Tennessee with Fisher as his head coach. Any wonder Jeff Fisher hired him ASAP. They invented the bounty system together & Godell knows that even though other players have come out and said there were bounties, he needs the prying eyes to go away. The Commish can’t let the PAYING public think his product is corrupt to its inner core.

  86. saintsfan26 says: May 16, 2012 9:16 PM

    I agree that bounties as intentionally trying to injure other players is bad. That is why i am thankful that my Saints didnt intentionally try to injure anybody. If you want to argue this FACT, then just know that my next question to you will be: where is the proof?

  87. olcap says: May 17, 2012 5:19 AM

    “If you and I talked about robbing a bank…but never robbed the bank..then we can’t be charged and convicted for robbing a bank.”
    —————
    You’re right, but you could be arrested for conspiring to rob a bank.

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