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De Smith points to absence of bounty evidence

DeMaurice Smith AP

In a wide-ranging press conference held outside the NFLPA’s offices on Thursday, executive director DeMaurice Smith addressed the bounty allegations against four players:  Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma, Saints defensive end Will Smith, Packers defensive end Anthony Hargrove, and Browns linebacker Scott Fujita.  Smith emphasized a point that the union has been making for several weeks — and that the NFL has yet to rectify, privately or publicly.

“We have not seen one piece of evidence that would show that one of those players got paid to target a player and injure him and get him out of the game,” Smith said.

There very well may be ample evidence to support that conclusion.  Every line of those 50,000 pages generated by the investigation may implicate every man who played for the Saints’ defense from 2009 through 2011.  But until the NFL shares the information with the NFLPA and/or with the media, there’s no way to confirm that the evidence exists.

Smith also addressed the contention that the NFLPA has a conflict of interest when it comes to representing the rights of the players accused of acting on bounties and the players who were the targets.  Though unions routinely must balance potentially competing interests whenever a member of the rank and file is accused of doing something to a coworker, the conflict of interest doesn’t arise unless and until there’s evidence that one employee infringed on the rights of another employee.

Again, there could be a mountain of evidence on that point.  But until the evidence is shared, there’s no way to know whether the NFL’s conclusions are accurate, or whether the NFL has incorrectly concluded that a pay-for-performance program coupled with tough talk in the locker room translated to a band of assassins who were treating their union brethren like the Mean Machine treated the guards.

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53 Responses to “De Smith points to absence of bounty evidence”
  1. eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 7:20 AM

    The NFLPA isn’t entitled to any evidence. They had their chance to change the way penalties and appeals were handled but decided it wasn’t important when bargaining the new CBA.

    Now that they ignored the issue during the time they could have changed it, they want to complain about the way things are?

    Look in the mirror DeMaurice. It seems that the NFLPA is all style and no substance.

    They complain about everything yet do nothing. Nothing is ever their fault and they are the first to threaten lawsuit if they think they aren’t getting a nickle they are owed.

    The NFLPA can’t be bothered with the players safety but yet there’s always time to go to court.

  2. jc1958cool says: May 25, 2012 7:35 AM

    gregg williams admitted it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    how stupid is this world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. eaglesw00t says: May 25, 2012 7:38 AM

    But until the NFL shares the information with the NFLPA and/or with the media, there’s no way to confirm that the evidence exists.

    ————————————

    And why would the NFL feel the need to make this information public?

    If the suspended players did actually participate in this, they should shut the hell up and take their punishment like a man. Its very possible that the NFL is withholding information from the public just so the reputation of the entire league isnt sullied.

    But if you players DID participate, and go through this entire process of suing and complaining, it should double the penalty. Because now it really makes the league and the NFLPA, and especially you Vilma, look like a bunch of scumbags.

  4. panamon says: May 25, 2012 7:48 AM

    “We have not seen one piece of evidence that would show that one of those players got paid to target a player and injure him and get him out of the game”

    If that were what was necessary to prove the Saints broke the rules he might have a case. I personally believed they targeted Favre in the NFCCG at the time because it looked obvious as hell. Late hit after late hit, many not called.

    Add that onto the fact Saints have admitted wildly (and unwisely) that pay-for-performance bounties existed (still against the rules and still likely existed after told to stop) and the evidence of multiple corroborated accounts of money being offered to target as well as the recording of G.Williams emphasizing injuries and referencing paying bounties and you get the fact that the NFLPA is obsessed with protecting the guilty which looks worse and worse as they continue to do it (including loyal NFLPA’er Fujita, which clearly has impact right?). Why don’t they try a few more lawsuits?

  5. goodellgate says: May 25, 2012 8:04 AM

    ***gregg williams admitted it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    how stupid is this world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***

    No he didn’t. The NFL wrote his apologie and there was no mention of pay-to-injure..

    But you’re right, this world is so stupid that people like you will keep posting that as a fact.

  6. miles58a says: May 25, 2012 8:11 AM

    jc1958cool says:
    May 25, 2012 7:35 AM

    gregg williams admitted it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    how stupid is this world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Greg Williams never admitted to a Pay for Injury Program Goodell said he admitted to it but you never heard Greg say it. Don’t ya’ll think its odd that they say they have 50,000 pages from three years and at the end of the season this past year all of a sudden they got one piece of evidence that sealed the case. So what they had 49,999 pages that didn’t prove anything or even 49,800 pages. Don’t get me wrong I think if they did it they need to be punished. Goodell waited this long because he needed the new CBA deal to help him do this, he never plans on showing anything no matter what he says. Thats why he only punished the four players he did, because if he would have done anything to the others the appeals would not have fell under him and he would of had to show proof

  7. miles58a says: May 25, 2012 8:19 AM

    Also what makes everyone say Vilma has lied and Goodell is telling the truth, only that Goodell came out first and said they lied to him. Its only one mans word against the other without proof. The reason the penalties were so harsh was because Goodell figured if he would be so harsh and say he 50,000 pages that no one would question him they would say there is no way he would ever hit them that hard unless he had a lot of proof

  8. footballhistorian says: May 25, 2012 8:22 AM

    Typical union tool….

  9. 3octaveFart says: May 25, 2012 8:24 AM

    eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 7:20 AM
    “The NFLPA isn’t entitled to any evidence.”

    So you’ll have no problem when the Gestapo kicks down your door, hauls your ass off. and throws you in a cell forever without a shred of proof?

    ..moron…

  10. aresarrow says: May 25, 2012 8:26 AM

    be careful what you wish for.

  11. rajbais says: May 25, 2012 8:30 AM

    Welcome to the De Smith Era = “Courthouse Football”!!!!

    “Courthouse Football”, the safest form of football that the NFL would want!!!!

  12. musicman495 says: May 25, 2012 8:44 AM

    eaglesw00t says: May 25, 2012 7:38 AM

    But until the NFL shares the information with the NFLPA and/or with the media, there’s no way to confirm that the evidence exists.

    ————————————

    And why would the NFL feel the need to make this information public?
    —————————————————–
    The argument by the NFLPA is not that the evidence has not been made public (as much as I would like to see it myself). The argument is that it has not even been shown to the union, or to the players like Jonathan Vilma who have been suspended and denied their livelihood by a monopoly league to the tune of millions in salary.

    I cannot believe the number of commenters on this site and others who think these players have no right to see why they have been suspended.

  13. ohnothatguy says: May 25, 2012 8:46 AM

    Thats what you get by giving the commish all this power!! Should of made a panel of some sort in the cba!! Nobodys fault but the nflpa’s!! So all the players should shut it bc they had a chance to fix it and did nothing! Sounds just like the banks and congress!!

  14. voiceofreason22 says: May 25, 2012 8:48 AM

    This is just like the OJ Simpson case or that Casey Anthony fiasico. Clearly they are guilty and everyone knows it. Every one knows there was a bounty program. The Williams audio is a pretty good piece of evidence.

    But here is the thing about all of these cases….There was not enough evidence to get a conviction.

    Do I agree with the verdicts…no, but I respect the decision because there has to be clear evidence of wrong doing. Right now all we have is a Coach trying to get his players fired up.

    I’m glad the players are taking a stand here and the lawsuit against Goodell….This is millions of dollars at stake and if it were me you better show me the evidence.

    Its like the Trevon Martin case, people are ready to hang the guy that shot him….Too many lynch mobs in this country.

    Show the evidence….it doesn’t need to be made public, but those involved should know the facts against them.

    I bring up the OJ and Casey case because those come to mind, a better analogy perhaps….is the poor people that have been jailed for crimes they did not commit. Right now the Players until I see evidence beyond what some rouge coach said on audio, they are innocent.

    The defensive lineman saying show me the money after the farve hits, we don’t know how his contract is structured. He could get bonous for every sack he gets…so of course he is going to be playing as hard as he can.

    Once the mob mentality starts rollling it is hard to stop it.

    How would any of you like to be accused at work and lose your job just because someone said you did something. You better have good proof otherwise I’m comming back with a lawsuit.

  15. musicman495 says: May 25, 2012 9:10 AM

    panamon says: May 25, 2012 7:48 AM

    “We have not seen one piece of evidence that would show that one of those players got paid to target a player and injure him and get him out of the game”

    If that were what was necessary to prove the Saints broke the rules he might have a case.
    ———————-
    Now you are getting the idea. That is what is necessary. A pep talk before a game in which no opponents were actually targeted for injuries means nothing. (Dozens of former players who have heard similar speeches have said as much.) An admission by a coach that he ran a “pay for performance” program that violated the salary cap rules is not the same as admitting to running a system in which “players got paid to target a player and injure him and get him out of the game,” which is what the suspensions are for.

  16. schmitty2 says: May 25, 2012 9:27 AM

    There is a picture of someone who most fans still puke over

  17. sdisme says: May 25, 2012 9:31 AM

    “eaglesw00t says: May 25, 2012 7:38 AM

    But until the NFL shares the information with the NFLPA and/or with the media, there’s no way to confirm that the evidence exists.

    ————————————

    And why would the NFL feel the need to make this information public?”

    _____________________________

    He doesn’t need to make it available to the public or media, but all player contracts state:

    “the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.”

    So would you not think that the Commissioner refusing to share evidence with the suspended players would violate their hearing rights?

    Why do you think the NFLPA told them not to talk to the commissioner? It is because he would not give the evidence to present their side at a hearing.

  18. cdkreb says: May 25, 2012 9:39 AM

    Does the NFLPA think that Goodell just picked Jonathan Vilma out of a hat and accused him of this bounty. Pretty amazing if he did and then Gregg Williams still admitted to it.

  19. dexterismyhero says: May 25, 2012 9:42 AM

    Whine, whine, whine……………a bunch of basement lawyers on this site……………has Drew Brees singed yet?

  20. sb44champs says: May 25, 2012 9:57 AM

    Because now it really makes the league and the NFLPA, and especially you Vilma, look like a bunch of scumbags.
    ————————————–
    The above sentence makes YOU look like a scumbag!!!

  21. sb44champs says: May 25, 2012 10:02 AM

    voiceofreason22….
    You nailed it on the head…
    These lynch mobs are nothing but a bunch of but-hurt fans of teams that routinely suck year in and year out, lol.

  22. southcakpanther says: May 25, 2012 10:06 AM

    I am so tired of hearing these Saint* players whine. Deal with your punishment like a man. Your coach stole Vicodin, the team had bounties, and the GM wire tapped opposing coaches boxes. it’s all pretty clear to me.

  23. bordner says: May 25, 2012 10:09 AM

    3octaveFart says:
    May 25, 2012 8:24 AM
    eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 7:20 AM
    “The NFLPA isn’t entitled to any evidence.”

    So you’ll have no problem when the Gestapo kicks down your door, hauls your ass off. and throws you in a cell forever without a shred of proof?

    ..moron…
    —————————
    Tha would be the next logical step in this process…

  24. CKL says: May 25, 2012 10:29 AM

    voiceofreason22 says: May 25, 2012 8:48 AM

    How would any of you like to be accused at work and lose your job just because someone said you did something. You better have good proof otherwise I’m comming back with a lawsuit.
    __________________________________
    You made some good points but I can tell with this comment that you have never had an employment wrangle with a company bound by EEOC laws. Most companies I’ve had experience with that are bound by those are predisposed towards credence for the “aggrieved” party if they are EEOC protected simply because of fear of lawsuit, Evidence isn’t as much of a concern

    What the proof the NFL has I don’t know, but Smith was being evasive/disingenuous with his comments about proof for a “pay for injury” program. Fact is “pay for performance” programs alone have been a against NFL rules for awhile. There are signs in NFL lockerrooms about the prohibition of them. Goodell has made an example of them just like he made an example of my team with cameragate. It’s that simple.

  25. eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 10:32 AM

    3octaveFart says:May 25, 2012 8:24 AM

    eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 7:20 AM
    “The NFLPA isn’t entitled to any evidence.”

    So you’ll have no problem when the Gestapo kicks down your door, hauls your ass off. and throws you in a cell forever without a shred of proof?

    ..moron…

    ————————————–

    I wasn’t aware that Goodell had those powers. Are you able to show me an example of Goodell doing any of those things or are you just another angry person with no real argument who thinks throwing out Nazi references and insulting people makes him look smart?

    Goodell has not exceeded the powers given to him by the players in the CBA. If this was an issue important to the players, they should’ve included it in the new CBA signed last year.

  26. goodolebaghead says: May 25, 2012 10:32 AM

    IF, and that’s a big IF, but if it turns out the NFL has nothing, I think that makes Brees’ explanation statement completely accurate and the rest of you that post that daily buffoons. We’re all waiting on an explanation from Goodell, and he isn’t providing it.

  27. usmc23112dacorps says: May 25, 2012 10:32 AM

    Union employees hurting eachother at work and then get caught hurting one another? (Say it ain’t so) Then the union head comes in and basically says show me the proof it happened? Crap, crap, and more crap! Man up and take your punishment, everyone knows the truth now!

  28. rubbernilly says: May 25, 2012 10:33 AM

    “should of”
    “would of”

    *beats head against English grammar book*

  29. sdisme says: May 25, 2012 10:38 AM

    cdkreb says: May 25, 2012 9:39 AM

    Does the NFLPA think that Goodell just picked Jonathan Vilma out of a hat and accused him of this bounty. Pretty amazing if he did and then Gregg Williams still admitted to it.

    ————————————————

    Not picked Vilma out of a hat. Not really a vast conspiracy. Simply put the Saints were breaking the NFL’s “bounty rule”, they deserved some punishment.

    But the NFL decided to use them as an example and used some bad evidence, and outrageous penalties to try and prove a point.

    One of the other pieces of evidence (and probably the one that that implicates Vilma) is a statement from an ex former defensive quality control coach. Problem is he publicly had an axe to grind with the Saints.

    The other evidence that was leaked so far, has turned out to be false. Hargrove statement didn’t have what Mary Jo White said it contained. Emails from outside source that proved a bounty on Rodgers and Newton, turned out to be a joke that wasn’t even sent to Payton.

    So do I think the NFL has zero evidence. No I think they can prove the Saints had a pay for performance program that is a violation of the “bounty rule”. There is probably also some words used similar to GW’s speech that don’t sound very good. Do I think there is evidence of a 3 year cover up… NO.

    The NFL for whatever reason decided to make a statement. Problem is they used weak evidence and excessive punishments. The collateral damage was 2 coaches and a GM involved in a Vicodin scandal, and a DC who seemed to be on the NFLs hit-list (probably for a good reason hearing his locker room speech).

    Then they tried to cut a deal with the NFLPA on the player penalties. That failed.

    This is a black eye on the integrity of the league front office.

  30. eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 10:39 AM

    sdisme says:May 25, 2012 9:31 AM

    Why do you think the NFLPA told them not to talk to the commissioner? It is because he would not give the evidence to present their side at a hearing.

    ————————————

    More than likely it’s because they were likely to incriminate themselves/teammates further. The last thing the NFLPA wants would be increased penalties due to players incriminating other players.

    If anything, their refusal to cooperate makes them look even more guilty.

  31. darthsaint says: May 25, 2012 10:42 AM

    southcakpanther – pretty obvious you are just really really tired and consistently losing to the Saints.

    The Vicodin thing I think happened. However addition to pain killers happens to many people, of all walks of life. Not sure how this makes someone a horrible person however. Obviously the issue got resolved privately, which is how it should have been handled anyway, no matter who the person who has the problem is.

    As for bounties, the fact that no proof has been presented is important. I don’t for a second think that the Saints didn’t have a player pool for everything from sacks, to interceptions, to big hits. I also believe, as per player interviews from many teams and former players, that this is 100% common place within the NFL and has always been part of the culture. For everyone to act as if the Saints created this, manipulated the system for their gain, and were some form of “dirty” team is ridiculous. I believe Greg Williams is an idiot. But the PROOF of the situation is that no matter what he said. The players NEVER went out on the field and did anything of the sort. Once again for the haters. Not ONE SINGLE cart-off in the three years the supposed bounty system was in use. Not ONE!! Facts don’t lie…simple as that.

    And the wiretapping thing. Seriously. You haven’t noticed how ESPN dropped that story like a smoking hot lava rock. Their lawyers rightfully have them counsel that although it was a great time to try and pile on the Saints. The fact that their story was 100% based on the interview of a former contract employee who was fired for stealing and who had zero physical proof of any wrong doing…well it wasn’t exactly a form story to run.

    Hate on haters. And Panthers fans…prepare to still lose to the Saints.

  32. daveman8403 says: May 25, 2012 10:44 AM

    voiceofreason22 — No this is not just like the OJ case or any other case that went to court. you know why? those accused had the opportunity to stand in front of their accusers and see the evidence against them. they were also tried in front of a jury of their peers with a chance to defend themselves.

    “Everyone knows there was a bounty system”? Wow, I hope you never in position where you judge someone. How does everyone “know”? everyone has not seen any evidence. In fact, no one outside the NFL has seen any evidence.

    Greg Williams’ audio, while it might be over the top, is not an indication of a bounty system whatsoever. If you would actually listen to the entire 12 minute audio, this would be even more apparent.

    I applaud you for agreeing that it should be, ‘Innocent until proven guilty’, but please do not say ” Clearly they are guilty and everyone knows it. Every one knows there was a bounty program. ” .

  33. lolb23 says: May 25, 2012 10:55 AM

    Saints fans have gone from amusing, to annoying to straight up revolting. As a whole, Saints fans and their values are everything that is wrong with society today. Filthy animals.

  34. daysend564 says: May 25, 2012 11:00 AM

    3octaveFart says:
    May 25, 2012 8:24 AM
    eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 7:20 AM
    “The NFLPA isn’t entitled to any evidence.”

    So you’ll have no problem when the Gestapo kicks down your door, hauls your ass off. and throws you in a cell forever without a shred of proof?

    ..moron…
    ===========================
    I suppose I wouldn’t, if I willingly signed something that said that they could.

  35. lucky5934 says: May 25, 2012 11:04 AM

    Didn’t we see a similar article a week or two ago? Time for D. Smith to determine his next P.R. move.

  36. robf2010 says: May 25, 2012 11:05 AM

    “I personally believed they targeted Favre in the NFCCG at the time because it looked obvious as hell.”

    It was pretty obvious to everyone that the Saints were attacking the quarterback. Everyone except Brad Childress and his coaching staff. Instead of crying to the officials and the league, they should have adjusted … maybe left Shiancoe or Chester Taylor in to block, especially in the second half when the Saints were mauling the Viking offensive line.

  37. meandjuliojonesdownbytheschoolyard says: May 25, 2012 11:14 AM

    Stop it!!!!! I have absolutely no love or use for the nflpa right now. Tired of their whining. Do they not realize that a vast majority of nfl fans agree with the punishment? Aside from saints fans that is.

  38. eaglesw00t says: May 25, 2012 11:16 AM

    sb44champs says:
    May 25, 2012 9:57 AM
    Because now it really makes the league and the NFLPA, and especially you Vilma, look like a bunch of scumbags.
    ————————————–
    The above sentence makes YOU look like a scumbag!!!

    —————————

    lol, really?

    I work to save people from pain and injury for a living.

    Last I checked, I didnt offer to pay or receive money to intentionally injure someone. And then whine when I got caught. Your team got caught. Lighten up Francis.

  39. sdisme says: May 25, 2012 11:19 AM

    eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 10:39 AM

    More than likely it’s because they were likely to incriminate themselves/teammates further. The last thing the NFLPA wants would be increased penalties due to players incriminating other players.

    If anything, their refusal to cooperate makes them look even more guilty.

    ____________________________

    They are able to have council at those hearings, so the NFLPA (or attorneys) can control what the players say. Problem is without knowing the evidence, you don’t know what your trying to defend.

    For example: When Payton went in the commissioners office, RG showed him an email from Ornstein and said what does the P.S. mean. Payton said a bounty but stated he never read the email.

    –Well without all the evidence we didn’t know that the email wasn’t sent to Payton and the sender stated he sent it in jest because the NFL was on GWs case about bounties.

    Also who the email was sent to is very important. It was sent the VP of PR for the Saints. Obviously someone who doesn’t report to Loomis or Coaches. So if he thought the email was even close to serious, it would have never made it to the coaches.

  40. daveman8403 says: May 25, 2012 11:29 AM

    meandjuliojonesdownbytheschoolyard says:
    May 25, 2012 11:14 AM
    Stop it!!!!! I have absolutely no love or use for the nflpa right now. Tired of their whining. Do they not realize that a vast majority of nfl fans agree with the punishment? Aside from saints fans that is.

    —————————————————-

    I assume the ‘vast majority agreeing’ makes it right? Until you , or your team, is affected by something you think is unjust. But I guess if the majority says it’s cool, you wouldn’t put up a fight, right?

  41. sb44champs says: May 25, 2012 11:30 AM

    Your team got caught.
    ———————–
    Caught doing what? Firing up a team in a locker room, thats about it!!!

  42. sb44champs says: May 25, 2012 11:35 AM

    eaglesw00t….
    No wonder you are coming down hard on the Saints, they’ve had the eagles number for the last 6 years at least, lol!!

  43. daveman8403 says: May 25, 2012 11:40 AM

    lolb23 says:
    May 25, 2012 10:55 AM
    Saints fans have gone from amusing, to annoying to straight up revolting. As a whole, Saints fans and their values are everything that is wrong with society today. Filthy animals.

    ——————————————————————–

    You sir are everything that is wrong with society today. Saints fans are not condoning malicious intent to injure,(which i assume is why you are calling us ‘fifthly animals’), we are simply asking for evidence that this occurred.

    If you have an actual point, and not just name calling, then please share it. But, when you accuse people of having ‘screwed up values’, you better have something to back that up. Otherwise, you come off looking like a bigot, and more biased than any saints fan.

  44. daveman8403 says: May 25, 2012 11:54 AM

    sdisme says:
    May 25, 2012 11:19 AM
    eagleswin says: May 25, 2012 10:39 AM

    More than likely it’s because they were likely to incriminate themselves/teammates further. The last thing the NFLPA wants would be increased penalties due to players incriminating other players.

    If anything, their refusal to cooperate makes them look even more guilty.

    —————————————————————————

    You realize players were not allowed to have any counsel in these meeting with Goodell, right? when you are accused of something (guilty or innocent) the first thing you are advised to do is obtain legal counsel.

    but, I guess they could have gone into these meetings (without being formally accused), let the NFL write a declaration (carefully worded not to confirm or deny anything, but made that i can be implied), and then get them to sign it. (see hargrove’s and williams’ statements). That is why players were correctly advised to not attend.

    to another point, suspended coaches were told , in the suspension letters, to not speak about the allegations, or further punishments may be incurred. Basically it’s Goodell saying, play along with me if you want to come back. these coaches had no way to object to these accusations. The players have the NFLPA, and are attempting to get some form of due process. you would do the same if it was you.

  45. lolb23 says: May 25, 2012 11:58 AM

    Stop acting so darn entitled and show some patience, Saints fans. Everyone wants everything NOW. Trust me, when this is all over with, you’ll look back and wish you weren’t begging for the demise of your team so quickly like a bunch of anxious children.

  46. sb44champs says: May 25, 2012 12:00 PM

    lolb23 has nothing better to do except to dog the Saints day in and day out… What a loser!!!!

  47. daveman8403 says: May 25, 2012 1:50 PM

    lolb23

    Who is acting entitled? Yes, we are asking for everything now. It directly affects the upcoming season. What, are we suppose to wait until after all appeals and finished before evidence is shown to anyone? That would be convenient for Goodell. If it shows there was indeed not enough evidence, then the accused could do nothing.

    Where does YOUR entitlement come from? YOU are the one condemning someone with noting more than public opinion. YOU are the one making claims, not saints fans. saints fans are asking questions, you are are making declarations.

    “Trust me, when this is all over with, you’ll look back and wish you weren’t begging for the demise of your team so quickly like a bunch of anxious children.”

    — any further evidence will not bring about further “demise” to our team. punishments were already dolled out, and if it seems they should have been greater, then Goodell still comes out looking dishonest for covering it up. If it turns out the saints are guilty, then so be it, but that still does not make you right, or give you the ‘entitlement’ to convict by reason of popular belief.

  48. ilovefoolsball says: May 25, 2012 1:56 PM

    The NFL was all like:
    DeSmith you agree they’re guilty right? Why don’t you just tell us what you think the punishment should be

    DeSmith was all like: PSHHHHT you best be showin some evidence before I throw these dudes under the bus

    Goodell was all like: Come on De! You’re my homie! We’re keeping it real! On the housey, or is it hizzy? I’m not sure how you people say it these days.

    DeSmith was all like: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY YOU PEOPLE?

  49. mark0226 says: May 25, 2012 2:09 PM

    obf2010 says: May 25, 2012 11:05 AM

    It was pretty obvious to everyone that the Saints were attacking the quarterback. Everyone except Brad Childress and his coaching staff. Instead of crying to the officials and the league, they should have adjusted … maybe left Shiancoe or Chester Taylor in to block, especially in the second half when the Saints were mauling the Viking offensive line.

    =====

    Maybe Adrian Peterson should have stayed in to block instead of fumbling the ball FIVE times.

  50. kodakinvegas says: May 25, 2012 2:36 PM

    Payton, and Williams Apologized. That in and of itself is ENOUGH for me. People don’t apologise for nothing unless they’re stupid or guilty. Then there seems to be a “tape” floating around with ACL ‘s mentioned. But hey, those are only coaches directives. Right? Kill the head and forget about it. Nothing really happened afterall

  51. ilovefoolsball says: May 25, 2012 3:32 PM

    kodakinvegas says:
    May 25, 2012 2:36 PM
    Payton, and Williams Apologized. That in and of itself is ENOUGH for me. People don’t apologise for nothing unless they’re stupid or guilty. Then there seems to be a “tape” floating around with ACL ‘s mentioned. But hey, those are only coaches directives. Right? Kill the head and forget about it. Nothing really happened afterall
    ______
    So you accept an apology from Williams that was doctored by the NFL and you also accept the apology of a coach (Payton) who had everything to lose by NOT apologizing for something that he didn’t even know was going on.

    You said they wouldn’t apologize unless they were stupid or guilty, but you forgot one other option: cornered.

  52. daveman8403 says: May 25, 2012 3:48 PM

    ahhh the apologies by the coaches and the infamous video (audio). Glad you brought that up. Please go back and read these apologies.

    1) in no statement or apology does any one from the saints organization apologize/admit to “bounties”. Greg williams statement apologizes for running a pay-for-performance program (very different than pay-for-injury). on a side note, Greg Williams did not write this apology. He wrote one, the NFL didn’t like, so they wrote one for him and had him sign. kind of odd that an admission/apology wouldn’t even mention pay-to-injure or the word “bounty” (that they coined).

    2) the tape you mention is a 12 minute audio clip from a video (no one has seen) of Greg Williams making a speach the night before a game. It may have been over the top, but not where is an incentive for pay, other players, or coaches mentioned or heard. it’s also interesting that most people have only heard the daming 3 minutes where Williams goes off the deep a little. But what is not heard is the remainin 9 minutes which in Williams states to hurt the other players, within the rules of the game (there is also a difference between being hurt and being injured).
    I agree that williams should not have said to target an ACL, but sorry , that in no way shape or form proves a bounty program (especially since the guy who released the audio said there was not any sort bounty during that game).

    your “kill the head” comment is a metaphor, and is incomplete. it’s “kill the head, and the body will die” . as in , Stop the most important part of there offense, and it will fall apart. I guess when other players say, “we are going to kill the giants tomorrow” they literally mean they are going to murder them, right? Use some critical thinking. Furthermore, nothing did happen during that game. The saints had 0 penalties. If someone intentionally trying to hurt someone, you would have seen someone intentionally trying to hurt someone. so sir, you tell me where “something really happened after all”

    If that sir is enough “evidence” for you, then I pray you are never on a jury.

  53. mark0226 says: May 25, 2012 8:16 PM

    I’d like to clarify some comments above about the Gregg Williams audio. The three minute clip not just a three minute portion of the speech, but was a cut and paste job with only the ‘shocking’ sound bites included. The media and more importantly their audience want quick sound bites, so that is what the edited audio delivered. No one cares if a sound bite is out of context with the full speech. Why does context matter? The “kill the Giants” reference above is a good example why context matters.

    He uses the quote, “Kill the head and the body will die.” Later, he says “we break their will, we don’t break their skill.” These two go together. Affect the head, meaning break their will. If they were literally knocking guys out of games (hitting the head and ACL), then they would be breaking their skill, so that would contradict this statement.

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