No one denies that the Saints went hard after Favre that game, and yes, the McCray hit after the handoff looked like a cheap shot (in McCray’s defense, Favre was faking a bootleg after the handoff, but it did look like a gratuitous hit).

That said, just because they were hitting him every chance they got doesn’t mean there was a bounty — just that they viewed punishing Favre as a strategy to win the game so they could go to the Super Bowl (kind of like the beating the Vikings put on Tony Romo the week before).

And I am familiar with the Ed Werder report, which stated that the NFL’s allegations were exaggerated; there were theatrics prior to the Cardinals and Vikings games, and that after the league inquired to Payton, he told Williams to knock it off and it never was an issue again.

You sarcastically comment that the whole things comes down to “misunderstandings.” No, the whole things comes down to whether or not the Saints had an ongoing, three year pay to injure program, as the league alleges, and frankly there is nothing to back that up. No one is saying the Saints are choir boys, but tough locker room talk and bravado and players rewarding each other for making turnovers does not equal what they’ve been punished for. Going hard after Favre in a game with a Super Bowl berth on the line does not equate to a three year pay to injure system.

And the Ornstein emails were clearly jokes — seriously, the guy was in prison across the country and broke — yet his emails appear to be the basis for much of the allegations.

Believe me, if there is clear evidence that the Saints did what they are charged with I’d love to see it and know that they weren’t getting screwed on this. Until then it will continue to appear that the Saints were a team that was a convenient scapegoat.

Payton never said Vilma did anything. Try harder next time to separate the facts vs. fiction.

The league alleged the Saints violated the rules by conducting a bounty program. Payton and Loomis stated the violation HAPPENED under their watch.

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The problem is that saints fans will continue to deny because the word BOUNTY wasn’t used. Everyone knows what the violations were and what performance the “pay for performance” were really paying for. There was no need to explain what violations they committed. The team and it’s coaches know why they were punished and have accepted it.

First let me say I think the punishment is too much since no players were actually injured in this whole ordeal. However, a lack of injuries is not proof in and of itself that the bounty system didn’t exist. A poor job of carrying out a crime doesn’t exonerate you from the intent, and I believe that is why Goodell is going after them.

The Saints were more than “being too rough” on Favre. Blatant and some not so blatant illegal hits were carried out until it was clear Favre was not at full speed anymore. Long time media members stated they’ve never, in all their years covering the sport, witnessed a QB get hit long after making a hand-off. But that is exactly what Bobby McCrary did in that NFC Championship game. Favre was into his third step without the ball on a play going in the opposite direction and McCrary jacked him in the chin with his helmet. But his actions were just misunderstood; he meant no harm. That was simply the worst of the bunch.

You see, rational people look at the Saints excuses (locker room talk [aimed at specific injuries] misinterpretations, misunderstandings, taken out of context, and my favorite – just joking) and realize innocent people generally don’t have that many things to explain away. But it’s all just a big misunderstanding!

Keep in mind the NFLPA also made claims that they weren’t getting financial information during the lock-out; and that turned out to be false.

Finally, there was the ESPN report by Ed Werder. The source from a significant person in the Saints organization stated the bounty thing was over blown. That it only existed for the two NFC playoff games against Arizona & Minnesota, and that it stopped after word came the Vikings had made a complaint. But I’m sure that was taken out of context. Or perhaps Ed misunderstood. Or maybe …it was just a joke.

Greg Aiello says they showed the union evidence. Yet the union has filed two grievances on behalf of the players and has stated they have not seen any proof.

Any you are saying not to believe Vilma?

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Union supporters and Saint fans keep grasping at straws and twisting things.

Were the union grievances in regard to evidence in the bounty investigation? NO. They were trying to say that Goodell didn’t have the AUTHORITY to pursue and punish. That had ZERO to do about the merits of the case. I fail to see how that is evidence of the NFL’s case being weak/lying?

This is also the same union who bemoans player safety but yet refuses to do anything about it. This is the same union who signed off on HGH testing but refuses to allow the league to test for it. This is the same union who signed off on the Redskins/Cowboys punishment (so that it would be exempt from collusion charges) for millions of dollars and then turned around and took the NFL to court to try to make more millions of dollars (conveniently ignoring their own role).

DeSmith is out for DeSmith and noone else. His expertise is as a trial lawyer, not as a labor head. It’s no wonder that he prefers the courtroom to any other venue.

Self-regulation can be a wonderful thing sometimes.

As can bulletin boards.

You should read the lawsuit. He states he never pledged, paid or intended to pay any money.

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Funny word “pledgeed”. Basically stating he didn’t promise. Vilma has chosen his words carefully and at no time has he stated he never spoke the words attributed to him. Only some leaks that it was said to rile the players. He keeps focusing on the money aspect, not the intent.

musicman495 says:May 31, 2012 9:27 PM

For the 5,000th time, the coach did not admit to what Vilma is being suspended for. Capiche?

fusion3450 says:May 31, 2012 11:32 PM

&

catquick says:
May 31, 2012 8:30 PM
How about your own coach admitted it?
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noooo……he didn’t. go read the facts

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Facts? And all you people asking for proof the coaches made statements implicating Vilma without providing PROOF that the coaches didn’t make the statements crack me up. The truth is no one here knows. No one here was in the room with Goodell while he spoke to the Saints staff. All you’re going by is self serving leaks made by the NO organization.

And heresay? The league came out early in the process and said it had multiple sources for their evidence. In any event, sooner or later we’ll see which side was more truthful.

Vilma and the players have sought two avenues of redress via the NFLPA provisions as to whom and if the league even has jurisdiction over the suspensions.

Finally, Vilma filed a defamation action against Goodell, individually wherein the complaint unequivocally states Vilma didn’t offer to pay, intend to pay or pay for any plays resulting in injury.

The NFL has refused to show the raw data so as to allow Vilma to address the issues/evidence. If it was so iron clad, the league would have no problem allowing the players the opportunity to review the raw data. They haven’t. My guess is they won’t either. Whether Vilma came to the NFL offices or not. So the only way Vilma can obtain that information is through the discovery process in court.

The league alleged the Saints violated the rules by conducting a bounty program. Payton and Loomis stated the violation HAPPENED under their watch.

The investigation process is:

1. A fact finding mission
2. Collect as much evidence as possible before the next stage, where you make your case.
3. NOT the stage of accusations.

Vilma claims he wasn’t shown the evidence so he couldn’t defend himself during this process. How guilty is that?

During this stage it’s not about sharing evidence, it’s about investigating. That’s it.

So they have been told Vilma did a certain act. They go to him and ask him about it. What does he have to say about it? Deny it? Accept it? Have a different version?

That’s all that happens. They then take his statement and add it to the rest of their data.

Anyone crying that “I wasn’t shown the evidence against me” during the investigation process is sounding very, very guilty. Because at that time, it’s just fact finding, ma’am.

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Admitted what? The only thing any one has admitted to is a bonus program for big plays.

No coach or player has admitted to any bounties for injuries.

Prove me wrong.

In all seriousness, if you know you are innocent Mr. Vilma, you wouldn’t need anyone to “Show” you any evidence because you know there is no evidence correct?