Comments on: Kareem McKenzie’s “cart-off” vs. Saints appeared innocuous

By: cidman2001

cidman2001 — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:24:52 +0000

Everyone assumes that a bounty payment or a cart off is something that only exists for a cheap shot or illegal hit. Both could result from a perfectly legal play.

By: crabboil

crabboil — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 15:29:18 +0000

Manufactured evidence.

Someone needs to beat the s*** out of Goodell.

By: awl1998

awl1998 — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 04:50:22 +0000

beg your pardon? the story says there was $1000 paid for a cart off in that game. Only one player was carted off. It says nothing about “smaller” payments in that game.The other thing is, all have admitted to payments for big plays (and a number of other teams have as well). The $10,000 “evidence” is the NFL’s claim as to Vilma, which he denies, and re: which no evidence at all has been shown.

By: truthfactory

truthfactory — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 03:19:18 +0000

khuxford says:
It was a pulled groin. How do you manage to intentionally create a pulled groin in a scrum?

And inability to knock people out equated with innocence? No. An inability to match that ledger up with actual successes would be what creates a lack of proof of guilt, though. The story we’re getting indicates a player was paid $1000 for knocking out McKenzie…with a pulled groin. Seriously?

Why am I even posting here? PFT just steals my material.
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The ledger not matching up doesn’t equal a “lack of proof of guilt”. The ledger is real. They didn’t just “make it up”… if they did, I’m sure they would have matched it up to a game where an opposing player was actually injured by the defense.

What is more likely is that the smaller “$100-$1,000″ payments were unrelated to the groin injuries , but rather were paid for big hits or other plays…. The previous evidence suggests that payments of up to $10,000 were offered for true knock out hits and these smaller payments could have (and probably were) made for any number of “big hits” that may not have resulted in the cart-offs that you and others are trying to match them up with.

By: saintij

saintij — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 02:25:19 +0000

The longer this goes on the more questions I have of the league

they took hard decisive action in the suspensions of coaches with HEAVY penalties. Hit the head lines daily, with a “BITCH SLAP” comment about the Saints, had the image of the evidence being so damning EVERY ONE and I mean EVERYONE sucked it up and just started the tsumni of haters ……
now this “ledger?” shows up …..and now it seems the evidence isnt really evidence but it is but not really sure mores coming ………HUH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

LUCY…YOU GOT SOME SPLAINING TA DO!

By: khuxford

khuxford — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 02:10:50 +0000

zaggs says:
Jun 1, 2012 8:31 PM
“However, McKenzie did not appear to be hurt on any type of dirty play from any Saints player.”

“McKenzie was injured in the scrum to recover Eli Manning’s fumble.”

Lots of things happen during those scrums. All it takes is one shot.
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truthfactory says:
Jun 1, 2012 8:29 PM
People will confuse their inability to knock people out with innocence. The intent of a bounty is illegal… Doesnt matter how successful you were at accomplishing your goal.
________________

It was a pulled groin. How do you manage to intentionally create a pulled groin in a scrum?

Why am I even posting here? PFT just steals my material.

By: booker1974

booker1974 — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:55:47 +0000

McKenzie stepped on a lose ball and pulled a groin. Kind of hard to pin that on the Saints.

By: musicman495

musicman495 — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:41:12 +0000

“But it doesn’t appear that the Saints took a cheap shot at McKenzie.”

Gregg Williams’s pep talk BS notwithstanding, you can say that about 99% of the Saints’ defensive snaps over the three years in question. So why are Saints players and coaches being sent to gulags? For violating the salary cap?

By: hipstercagematch

hipstercagematch — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:12:02 +0000

MDS you seem to not get it. See even if there wasn’t a cheap shot on McKenzie doesn’t make the fact that someone on the Saints D was given an extra 1000 for it any less illegal than it is.

I know PFT is trying to protect it’s rapport with players but c’mon man. They got caught lying after getting caught with their pants down and were justly punished no matter what NO homers try to say.

By: booker1974

booker1974 — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:09:15 +0000

So let me get this straight. The allegations are that the defensive players were being payed to injure opposing offensive players. The ledger appears to back this up, stating that players were injured in the games against the Bills and Giants and that payments were made. Yet, the players injured were defensive players or o-linemen that left with groin pulls? So how do defensive players get rewarded for an opposing defensive player getting hurt, when they’re not even on the field at the same time? And how does an opposing player pulling a muscle constitute a rewardable play by the defender? Something’s fishy.

By: goodellgate

goodellgate — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:02:24 +0000

Kill the groin and the body will die.

By: 49erstim

49erstim — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 01:01:57 +0000

The “intent” of a defense is to hold opponents under 50 points. They were unsuccessful. By the logic of the Saints kool-aid drinkers that means their entire defense doesn’t exist!…. The infamous “Michael Knight” defense! Keep it real kiddies! Lol.

By: themonster49

themonster49 — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 00:59:26 +0000

Us regular folks are allowed to be lazy and not go back and watch the film to see what happened.

This story is a sham, you didn’t go look at the tape, taking people talking about the game as it didn’t happen, considering most possible-intentional hits aren’t mentioned most of the time for decades.

I don’t know what caused that guy to get injured, maybe nobody was around him and he pulled or tweaked something, but since this is a bounty story, maybe the other end is possible and someone intentionally did it like grabbed him and unnecessarily rolled into it or maybe someone did it to him in the pile scrambling for the fumble.

How about You go look, come back, and tell us what you saw, unbiased, and then decide based off the pieces of facts if it affects the bounty claim or not.

By: ehatem

ehatem — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 00:53:43 +0000

If the NFL had this ledger and could show that the player was removed from a game via a Saints hit, legal or otherwise, then we all wouldn’t be where we are right now. If the league had that, they’d show it to the players and tell them to start singing sweetly or they’d release it to the press, which would then cause any player who got paid 1000 bucks to lose a heck of a lot more then that via civil lawsuits. The league knows something was up, but they don’t have the evidence to prove it. And while that’s enough to nail an organization to the wall (I mean if they can nail the Redskins and Cowboys for essentially following the rules then the bar is set incredibly low for that), I doubt its enough to get the players. And so this thing will just go on and on.

By: zaggs

zaggs — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 00:31:07 +0000

“However, McKenzie did not appear to be hurt on any type of dirty play from any Saints player.”

“McKenzie was injured in the scrum to recover Eli Manning’s fumble.”

Lots of things happen during those scrums. All it takes is one shot.

By: truthfactory

truthfactory — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 00:29:06 +0000

People will confuse their inability to knock people out with innocence. The intent of a bounty is illegal… Doesnt matter how successful you were at accomplishing your goal.

By: philwauke

philwauke — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 00:15:42 +0000

so you had to go back to 2009 to find to find a slug o-lineman that had a groin pull? Boy what a bounty system they were running!