Comments on: Haystack of NFL evidence has a few possible bounty needles

By: drpompanoduke

drpompanoduke — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:04:05 +0000

This is not about rules of evidence in a courtroom. This is about an employer/employee relationship whereby in negotiated contract the employee gave up certain rights to challenge a disciplinary measure taken by the employer. Now where I work if you lie to the boss you are fired. Participate in activities that the employer bans, termination. I have no sympathy for Saints players, team or NFLPA. They agreed to the contract!

By: jnbnet

jnbnet — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:47:51 +0000

This is a sham and if some of you remove your hate for the Saints, you would admit it

==============================
Hey, I like the Saints…but get over it. These guys have to man up, take their lumps and move on.

By: ernie ernie

ernie ernie — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:38:14 +0000

I just cannot beleive the NFl, after gathering evidence and testamony just screwed it up and over penalized a handful of players. That makes no sense.
Secondly, I’ve heard the NFLPA cry wolf so many times only to find the person/s were indeed guilty that its almost impossible to believe a Vilma. Of course he is going to say he didn’t do it. It isn’t like they will add to his punishment.

I do believe they could have just handed out monetary fines and been done with it but then it never stops since these guys have tons of money so it means nothing to them.

Too bad the only thing that matters is that Mr Vilma is concerned about the hall of fame and his future and not whether he actually did this thing and would man up for it which he’s not going to do.

By: mwindle1973

mwindle1973 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:36:51 +0000

I keep hearing people say Goodell is a narcissist. He’s the Commish what do you expect? Do you think non-narcissist personalities gravitate towards positions of great power or something. I would guess the overwhelming majority of people involved in the NFL in any way probably have narcissistic personalities. It usually takes a narcissist to want to be the object of people’s attention to that extent. Now there are some guys that just love football and don’t fit the profile. But think about it, when you get a quite, introspective player like Jerry Rice or Hines Ward it’s not the norm. For most players it’s not enough that millions of people are watching you play football. And it’s not enough that they all watch you score a TD either. No they have to do a dance or something as if to say, “look at me, I just scored a TD”, without realizing we are already watching your every move. You have our attention already! No need to carry a Sharpie in your jock!

By: mwindle1973

mwindle1973 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:29:38 +0000

YOu know if Goodell had the type of undisputable evidence that people are requiring, he’d be obligated to turn it over to the authorities who would then be obligated to charge the criminals involved. For example if I offer to pay someone to hurt somebody for me, I’ve broken the law…I don’t have to go through with it. Just attempting to is against the law. Similarly the NFL has taken the stance that the existence of such a program is enough for them. THey don’t care if the money was actually payed or if they actually went through with it. THey have stated that over and over. Anyone who doesn’t like it has only one recourse. Stop watching the NFL, stop buying their products.

By: easyeddie

easyeddie — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:50:26 +0000

The rhetorical fallacies being utilized on these Bounty Gate articles and the posts that follow is amazing. Too many to even count.

By: dvdman123

dvdman123 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:14:06 +0000

This whole bounty thing is beyond ridiculous now. The NFL (Goodell)went overboard with their discipline and now they are trying to cover their you know what to justify it with this worthless evidence. It it what it is folks…..love it or hate it. Oh and by the way let’s be honest with ourselves, bounty or no bounty the Saints were the best team in 2009 and nothing can change that.

By: bullcharger

bullcharger — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:10:17 +0000

@ratedgap:

I think the only difference between pay for performance (which was admitted) and a bounty program would be targeting specific players. Intent to injure doesn’t need to play into it. That’s why the “Kill the Head” tracking is so important and Williams speech. It proves they targeted specific players.

By: bullcharger

bullcharger — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:05:06 +0000

If you look at “Kill the Head” in the context from the Williams speech, it means to put a hit on the key guy for the opponent. it can be a WR, RB or QB. Who ever it is for that team.

The tracking and payment of those hits doesn’t prove they were illegal hits or there was intent to injure, but it does still prove there was a bounty system.

By: gingerkid2000

gingerkid2000 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:59:36 +0000

In a court of law OJ Simpson & Casey Anthony both adamantly plead their innocents and both were not found guilty because their defense offered evidence that proved they could be innocent. My point being if this were a court of law just stating you didn’t do it or that the evidence is insufficient would not be enough to convince a jury. You still have to prove innocence is possible, it still doesn’t mean they didn’t do it. Unless of course you ask OJ Simpson & Casey Anthony.

However this isn’t a court of law & these guys aren’t going to jail. This is the court of the NFL and these guys are getting temporarily suspended. The process is going according to the CBA the players & their union agreed to.

These players are so concerned with how this whole thing interprets their image that they are not taking into consideration that how they are handling this is also going to affect their image. Like if more evidence come out that proves their guilt and all they do is make excuses instead of proving their innocence will only make them look more guilty and incapable of accepting responsibility. Ginsburg and Co need to prove that the NFL has nothing. They need to prove the evidence is faked, flawed, etc instead of walking out.

By: teamobijuan

teamobijuan — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:30:40 +0000

“I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints,” Williams said. “It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again.”

By: saints25

saints25 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:13:34 +0000

@veence69 …….Good luck with that 2012 team who’ll win 3 games at the most…The NFL isnt going to give you that SB44 throphy So shut up whining..Know you cant win W/12 Men In The Huddle AND 6 Turnovers An Expect To Win,Thats Why Your Vikings Lost..did you watch the damn game?Saints were the best team in the NFL 2009-10

By: daybreaker2

daybreaker2 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:00:39 +0000

Saints fans have said all along, there was a bounty on Favre, and a pay for performance program.

That does not equal a 3 year long pay for injury program, yet Goodell thinks it does.

This “evidence” from the appeals does *nothing* to prove any kind of pay for injury system. Vilma had 62 Kill the Heads…. I can guarantee you he did not injure 62 players. Harper got $1000 “bounty” on Brandon Jacobs? Jacobs was injured for one series against the Saints, and it was Darren SHARPER who hit him on that play. Not to mention other “cart offs” listed in the ledger Yahoo mentioned for games where no one was carted off.

All this evidence does is further back up the likelihood that there was a pay for PERFORMANCE system for three years, then one isolated bounty on Favre.

By: miles58a

miles58a — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:53:24 +0000

mwindle1973 says:
Jun 19, 2012 1:27 AM

The NFL has no burden to produce the evidence to the player(s) or NFLPA at any point.
————————————————-
Hey none lawyer, read the CBA it says Goodell has all the rights he says he has but it also says he has to show proof of what they are being accused of before the punishment.

By: ratedgap

ratedgap — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:45:11 +0000

Gotta love these mini minds who keep saying anyone admitted to the existence of a bounty program, when NO ONE did. Not one person. Then one of the mini minds posts Gregg Williams admitting to a “terrible mistake.” Where in that does it say bounty program? Do you realize the NFL wrote his statement? Some people are so angry the Saints won the Superbowl when their team didn’t, couldn’t, or hasn’t in forever they like any attempt to knock ‘em down. Sadly for you, the NFL record books will ALWAYS show the Saints as Superbowl winners. The record will also show no one was actually hurt during this supposed “bounty” program. The inability to think for ourselves, to need to be spoon fed information, and to be guided by irrational beliefs that are subsequently transposed to reality are some of the reasons our country continues to fall behind educationally. To think some of these lemmings have produced offspring that will fall into the same trap is kind boggling. God bless us.

By: atwatercrushesokoye

atwatercrushesokoye — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:18:45 +0000

I love the fact that people actually believe the NFL is going out of its way to create some false case against the Aints, why would they do that? Because of the positive light it reflects on the league having their teams pay for injuries to other players? It happened, accept it, accept the punishments and move on.

What the nfl should be doing is punishing the Aints and their fans for their stupid “who dat” saying.

By: percey12

percey12 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:06:12 +0000

You Saints fans have blinders on. Come on be realistic. “head kills”
“$10,000 for QB” (I doubt Vilma was going to give $10,000 to a guy for a clean qb sack, he wanted blood!

By: rpiotr01

rpiotr01 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:58:23 +0000

If the notes ain’t legit, you must acquit.

By: hugejazz

hugejazz — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:43:32 +0000

Just another way to keep the NFL in the front of the sports page all….friggin……year.

By: franktherat96

franktherat96 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:41:38 +0000

The league didn’t produce to the NFLPA a copy of the handwritten notes. Instead, the league converted the handwritten notes into a typed document, providing the typed document and not the handwritten notes.

____________________

So for all we know the NFL created these documents. Gotta love it. LOL….Roger GODdell needs to be removed as commissioner. Worse decision ever for the league when they voted him in.

By: glen907

glen907 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:41:30 +0000

I predicted weeks ago that the suspensions would stand because of the power Goodell has under the CBA ( just no way around the absolute authority he was given) but that Vilma would ultimately get paid through legal action in the defamation case. Yesterdays grandstanding aside, I see nothing that would cause me to change my opinion. If this is the most damming evidence Goodell has he might as well tell his attorneys to try to strike some non disclosure settlement to get this over with sooner than later. The league is going to keep taking P.R. hits over this and when it goes to court it won’t make them look any better. This may be enough for him to take action because of league rules but this ain’t nearly enough to win in civil court

By: dat504

dat504 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:23:03 +0000

This whole process has been a sham. The Saints were punished for lying to the King and running a pay for performance program. There is no evidence that they payed to injure players. They should be punished for those infractions, but not the made up stuff to protect the league from lawsuits. As for the guys who are wondering why Sean Payton is not screaming about his suspension, he wants to coach again. If he makes a big stank, he would never be reinstated. This is a sham and if some of you remove your hate for the Saints, you would admit it

By: PFTiswhatitis

PFTiswhatitis — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:56:21 +0000

The court of common sense says this evidence coupled with confessions, interviews, emails, etc. shows guilt. This is not a court of law.

By: billsfan27

billsfan27 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:50:51 +0000

Whaa. Buy both sides a box of friggin Kleenex and bring on the games.

By: richkotitte

richkotitte — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:41:28 +0000

In a handwritten note, Tiki Barber neatly wrote, ‘I’m flabbergasted at this whole bounty scandal’

By: bigwalt2990

bigwalt2990 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:38:24 +0000

This is just getting stranger and stranger. Tell tale sign of a lie getting deeper and deeper.

By: gavriloprincip33

gavriloprincip33 — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:37:18 +0000

And you know what the snitches said – right?

By: docschoolie

docschoolie — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:33:22 +0000

What are you thinking!! Am I to really believe there was no “bounty system” because the evidence was not properly presented to you, who makes no difference at all to the outcome of this fiasco. Stop throwing your law degree around, it means nothing to most of us. There WAS a bounty system. Williams admitted it!! Oh what now, by golly, gee weez, maybe I didn’t mean to say that??? What disgusts me most is that these enormously overpaid athletes won’t “Man Up” to what they did. I know grade school students with more personal strength and responsibility than these bozos!

By: veetan

veetan — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:33:03 +0000

Let my people go!

By: dolphinballs

dolphinballs — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:31:03 +0000

So at what point do these guys (players) not get the fact that the NFL owns them- unless they want to play in the Terrel Owens Football League.

Evidence doesn’t have to be “DNA” level evidence. This isnt a court of law although there are enough lawyers on this including FLorio.

This is an example being set.
Commissioner is not going to bend. These appeals are for a “show” of due process.

Breaking the rules is one thing. Getting caught is another. The smart ones take their medicine and lay low.