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NFL says Williams, Ornstein, unnamed coach corroborated Vilma’s offer on Favre

Jonathan Vilma Portrait Shoot Getty Images

The evidence against Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma includes considerably more than a page of handwritten notes.

During Monday afternoon’s appeal hearing in the bounty case, NFL outside counsel Mary Jo White explained to the players and lawyers present (including at least one lawyer from the office of linebacker Jonathan Vilma’s counsel, Peter Ginsberg) that three persons corroborated the claim that Vilma offered $10,000 to any member of the Saints defense who knocked Vikings quarterback Brett Favre out of the 2009 NFC title game.

“Mr. [Gregg] Williams and Mr. [Mike] Ornstein and another member of the Saints defensive coaching staff, all of whom were present at the meeting, all stated to NFL investigators that Mr. Vilma pledged $10,000 to any player who knocked Brett Favre out of the next week’s NFC championship game against the Minnesota Vikings,” White said according to the official transcript, a copy of which PFT has obtained.  “All three witnesses stated that the amount of this bounty was $10,000.”

Vilma’s offer allegedly sparked a tidal wave of similar gestures.

“According to one of the witnesses present at the meeting, the bounty offered by Mr. Vilma prior to the NFC championship game inspired additional players to pledge money for injury-producing hits or potentially injury-producing hits against opposing players or for other types of plays during the game,” White said.  “Mr. Vitt told NFL investigators that this meeting, quote, got out of hand, unquote. NFL investigators were informed that a member of the defensive coaching staff kept track of the various pledges made by players at this meeting.”

White also said that an unnamed witness provided the following quote regarding Vilma’s behavior before the prior week’s game:  “‘In the NFC divisional playoffs, the Saints faced the Arizona Cardinals. During a meeting of the defense the night before the game in January 2010, Jonathan Vilma, a Saints defensive captain, asked for permission to address the team, which was granted,. Mr. Vilma, in the course of giving a motivational speech to the team, stated, while raising his hands, each of which held stacks of bills, that he had two five stacks, which I understood to mean $10,000, for anyone who knocked Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner out of the game.'”  White said that the quote was independently confirmed by Mike Ornstein.

The problem continues to be that the NFL chose not to make Williams or Ornstein or the unnamed witness available to testify on Monday, and none of the three persons ever have addressed those claims, in any setting.  And so we’re all left to take the NFL’s word for it.

The NFL’s word may be the truth.  But when the three persons are all still, you know, alive, it would be nice to hear it from their mouths before completely believing it.

And that perhaps is and will continue to be the biggest question, which may never be answered.  What will an assistant coach who may have been (and likely still is) motivated by saving his career, a twice-convicted felon who still hopes to have access to NFL events (and inexplicably still does), and an unnamed person who may be a disgruntled former Saints employee say, if ever asked about these matters, especially if asked about them under oath?

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53 Responses to “NFL says Williams, Ornstein, unnamed coach corroborated Vilma’s offer on Favre”
  1. schmitty2 says: Jun 19, 2012 1:53 PM

    Wow….try and weasel your way out of that one Vilma

  2. thetroofishere says: Jun 19, 2012 1:56 PM

    “…a member of the defensive coaching staff kept track of the various pledges made by players at this meeting.”

    Is that person subject to fines/penalties too?

    Also, if you are running a criminal/illegal operation, I don’t think it’s in your best interest to document the illegal/criminal activity.

  3. thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 19, 2012 1:57 PM

    If not for the cheap shots they took on Favre, the Vikings win that game and probably the Super Bowl. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Saints.

  4. kidpresentable says: Jun 19, 2012 2:01 PM

    “The problem continues to be that the NFL chose not to make Williams or Ornstein or the unnamed witness available to testify on Monday”

    This isn’t a court of law, you don’t get to cross-examine witnesses. There’s not a jury. Williams has already tried back-tracking, but that’s after he’s already realized he’s f—ed, and he’s since tried unf—ing himself.

    If they have transcripts of Williams and Ornstein, I’m sure they have recordings as well. Goodell isn’t stupid. If Williams or Ornstein take the “stand” for the appeal, they could change their story and then the NFL has another PR nightmare on its hands. As it’s not a court of law, Williams and Ornstein can change their stories as needed without fear of perjury.

    Also, wasn’t this the same site that said the whistle-blower needed to be protected. I’m going to go out on a limb and say the unnamed member of the Saints coaching staff is one of the whistle-blowers. He might want to get a job as an assistant elsewhere someday, and if he can’t be trusted with company secrets, how do you think that will work out (see Mangini, Eric)?

  5. realsavage says: Jun 19, 2012 2:04 PM

    so the issue isnt their is no evidence… but that Goodell is trying to protect their witnesses…

  6. mtchainsmoker says: Jun 19, 2012 2:05 PM

    He said, she said. The Saints are guilty and everyone knows it. They bent the rules a little too much. They’re not the first and they won’t be the last. They’re just the ones who got caught, and for that they have to pay the price. Now let’s move on.

  7. sj39 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:06 PM

    Vilma needs to let it go. Not unlike Goodell destroying the spygate tapes so that the public would never know the extent of the cheating he is trying to keep the evidence they have away from the public so that we will never know the gross extent the bounty’s went to. He is in effect trying to punish the guilty but protect them at the same time. Let it go, this is not a court of law where you can have evidence or testimony thrown out or stricken from a jury. Take your punishment and move on. It’s over.

  8. CKL says: Jun 19, 2012 2:09 PM

    All I want to know right now is if the NFL is following the CBA procedures/regulations for these situations or aren’t they? If they are, there’s no reason for the players to complain. If they aren’t, the players should be stating that also, while they complain.

  9. jeremymartini says: Jun 19, 2012 2:12 PM

    This was a no brainer for me. You have front office officials, coaches, tapes, paperwork, & video showing this happened. Why would the coaches themselves take the punishment if none of this happened? Why would the coaches be on record as well admitting they lied to a cover up? Vilma is showing OJ Simpson like reality, if you deny something long enough you’ll make yourself believe you didn’t do it. Take your punishment like a man & the long these men deny it the longer it draws out in the public eye & the longer we all get sick & tired of hearing them cry wolf.

  10. motobus says: Jun 19, 2012 2:12 PM

    The NFL doesn’t really need to make these people available for questioning so long as they have signed statements or recordings from them.

  11. hey804 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:12 PM

    Believe me, I love the Saints, but after reading the entire 16 points PowerPoint presentation is pretty clear what was going on here. It’s not quite as bad as the NFL is making it out to be but worse than we Saints fans would like it to be.

    This was a “pay for performance”/”pay for pain” system. It was used to motivate players and the majority of the money which was $100 increments would be akin to most of us getting M&Ms at our place of work for a job well done. It wasn’t about it money. Hit the opposition as hard and clean as possible, it they don’t get up, even better.

    This was all clearly over the line, but I don’t think it was a malicious program, just stupid. I’m not sure how many defensive plays accure over the span of three seasons, but it’s got to be well over a thousand, and it’s been hard pressing to find many if any blatantly dirty plays. Not only that, but players were docked pay for penalties. Players didn’t go out to “injure” members of their elite fraternity, but they did go out to “hurt” them. That’s a big difference. Williams encouraged clean hits that were hard enough to hurt opposing players and knock them out of games, which I’m sure all DCs ask for. The players are not angry because they got caught, they’re angry because they don’t think they did anything wrong.

    I really just wish the NFL would have made it more clear that this was an attack on NFL culture more so than on the Saints. I certainly feel that worse crimes have and will be commited in this league and it will be interesting to see if the one-year suspension has set a precedent for many future infractions. James Harrison should be worried.

  12. khuxford says: Jun 19, 2012 2:12 PM

    I’m wondering what the motivation is for Ornstein to participate in this. He’s not part of the NFL, right? Wouldn’t he have been able to avoid being part of this? Why participate in a way that hurts the team you were offering money, because, ostensibly, you wanted them to do well?

  13. discosucs2005 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:16 PM

    “The NFL’s word may be the truth.  But when the three persons are all still, you know, alive, it would be nice to hear it from their mouths before completely believing it.”

    While I don’t disagree (in the sense that I am always for more evidence/accuracy) but it would pretty easy for Williams or the other two witnesses to just say “I never said that” if it was completely fabricated.

    It’s like when people said Osama Bin laden was still alive because we couldn’t see the body. I’m all for releasing it in the interest of accuracy, but if he were alive he could just come out with a tape and be like “yeah I’m alive America, FU” and it would be tough to refute.

  14. goldrush36 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:16 PM

    Also they may want to be careful what they wish for…. The more they press the issue for evidence and more evidence comes out…….. The more their chances increase of federal and local prosecutors getting involved and pursuing criminal charges. Sometimes it’s just better to take it like a man

  15. kcfanatic says: Jun 19, 2012 2:17 PM

    There are only 2 scenarios in this case. If it was as bad as the NFL says, then the NFL needs to turn over all hard evidence to the NFLPA, and the authorities. The Saints should be stripped of their championship with Indy & Minn. being named co-champions(or no one for that year). The men that participated would then be brought up on assault charges or intent to cause bodily harm. We’ve seen that happen in other sports where the action was outside of the scope of the game. Now, if the NFL does not have the hard proof or they are trying to make it sound worse for PR reasons, then Goodell needs to be reprimanded by the owners(docked pay), and the BOTH the players and coaches need to be reinstated. I don’t care which way it goes, but either you have solid evidence or you don’t. I’m starting to think that the NFL is making this a witch hunt.

  16. spartaninnh says: Jun 19, 2012 2:17 PM

    I wish people would stop saying, “This isn’t a court of law.” Due process and fundamental fairness apply regardless of the tribunal; it’s just a sliding scale as to the amount of process that is due. I think when you’re talking about taking a year out of someone’s finite athletic career and income, there’s a LOT more process due than “This is what these people told our investigators.”

    It’s not a case of the NFL protecting their witnesses if the NFL is the one providing the transcript of who said what to reporters — so what is it? If we know who the people are, and what the NFL is relying on from their statements, why can’t they be put up there and cross-examined? Might it not be the complete open-and-shut case the NFL is clearly hoping for, once the players’ lawyers start asking the questions?

    I’m not saying the Saints had a bounty system or didn’t; I’m saying the way the NFL went about “proving” it stinks to high heaven, and I’m not even a Saints fan.

  17. expertop says: Jun 19, 2012 2:18 PM

    Mike, your take on these appeal hearings continues to baffle me. The commissioner gets statements, in whatever form(s), from coaches about, in this instance, Vilma’s $10k offers. The commissioner relies on these statements, in part, on making the findings and meting out discipline. Players appeal directly to the commissioner because that’s the procedure set out in the CBA. And you think – apparently, because this isn’t the first time you’ve suggested it – that the commissioner should have introduced WITNESS TESTIMONY? It’s an appeal – the idea is absurd. Witness testimony would not only be itself NEW evidence, the introduction of which is likely (hopefully) prohibited, since it is, after all, an APPEAL of decisions already made, but also an incredibly foolish tactic even if the procedures of the CBA allowed it. Testimony would create inevitable inconsistencies with prior statements and give, presumably in your fictional legal world, the players the opportunity to cross-examine witnesses. If the players didn’t have anything close to those procedural rights prior to findings being made, why would the league go out of its way to create a virtually-guaranteed fiasco above and beyond the one as it currently exists?

    In short: you don’t put up live witnesses on appeal. For lots of reasons. Got it?

  18. knucklebucket says: Jun 19, 2012 2:20 PM

    Vilma just needs to keep his mouth shut at this point. He’s running around telling anyone who will listen that he is innocent and is worried about his reputation. What he fails to realize is that he will more likely be remembered for taking it to the courts instead of taking his punishment like a man.

    I’m not a Saints fan but feel for the fans who now feel their SB victory is somewhat tarnished. The Saints did a great thing for New Orleans by injecting life into a city that needed it desperately and this takes away from something that was fun to watch from a distance. I watched the Patriots play them that year and the skill level on the field was not even close, the Saints were dominant in every phase of the game.

  19. silverbleedblack says: Jun 19, 2012 2:20 PM

    Liars! Guilty! You Saint’s were not the only ones doing this, but you were the only ones to continue after being asked to stop. This all never would have been news if you didn’t act like children then, and now.

  20. eaglesw00t says: Jun 19, 2012 2:21 PM

    After all of the crap he has pulled with calling Goodell names, and saying he slandered his name, he should get an indefinite suspension.

    If you did the crime, fess up. A bunch of grown men lying like little children. Honestly, had he done it and fessed up, I would say a 3-4 game suspension.

    But now, after all of his shenanigans, and proof that he did do it, I wouldnt let him back into the game. I dont care what people think.

  21. bucrightoff says: Jun 19, 2012 2:23 PM

    Seriously, please keep pushing Vilma. When all is said and done you won’t be allowed to play touch football ever again let alone real football.

  22. kfrancissr says: Jun 19, 2012 2:23 PM

    I am amazed at how many people just take whatever the NFL says without any “real proof” (you know – actual statements from those who said it) as the undeniable truth.

    I get it that fans of teams that don’t like the Saints are happy to see this. But, since when do we just accept something as true because the NFL said it, so it must be true?

    It’s scary to think this is what it’s come to.

    If the evidence is so real and compelling, don’t hide behind “protecting sources.” Show the real evidence, not he say/she say hearsay… Because that’s exactly what we’ve gotten so far – hearsay.

    Instead of the actual hand written notes, we get an NFL made printout with the content of the supposed hand written notes.

    Instead of signed, witnessed statements from Orenstein, Williams, et al… We get “according to Mary Jo, this happened.”

    Kangaroo court at its finest.

    Just remember fans of the other 31 teams: With the power Goodell has, this could easily be your team the next time… And I can assure you – there WILL be a next time.

    As the lawsuits from former players mount on the NFL’s turning a blind eye to player safety for years, there WILL be another scape goat.

    Are the Saints guilty of something? Yes, running a pay for performance program. The rest is all bravado that Roger and Pas are milking for every ounce of blood they can squeeze from it.

    Wanna end this? Just release REAL evidence, not NFL typed BS or hearsay about what supposedly happened in a players meeting. That shouldn’t be difficult to do if you have the proof.

  23. Aaron says: Jun 19, 2012 2:25 PM

    thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 19, 2012 1:57 PM

    If not for the cheap shots they took on Favre, the Vikings win that game and probably the Super Bowl. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Saints.

    ……………………………………………………………………………….

    The Vikings lost because they couldn’t block, hold onto the ball, or count to twelve. Of course, the best part was watching #4 throw late, across his body and over the middle, which was just…beautiful. And predictable. If you want to blame someone, look at the guys in purple. And if you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Vikings.

  24. agcooney108 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:32 PM

    yeah vilma is done. he’s lucky no authority has charged of him of a crime of some sort. goodell saved this guys career/life and he should grateful instead of saying the nfl is making a mockery of his career.

  25. jgg1 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:38 PM

    Tanted Super Bowl need to put an asterisk in win colum for future generations to remember.

  26. cdsaints says: Jun 19, 2012 2:44 PM

    Given the way Goodell took liberties with Anthony Hargrove’s written testimony, I am going to wait until the named individuals publicly validate these claims before swallowing this hook line and sinker.

    I will say that IF they do indeed publicly validate these claims, then Vilma has done a grave disservice to himself, his team, and the fans of the Saints.

    However, if they instead publicly deny these claims, and / or deny them in a court of law in the course of a lawsuit arrising from this, then Goodell will have done a grave disservice to everyone who is affiliated with, supports, or watches the NFL.

    Either way, this is going to end extremely badly for someone.

  27. jcbadger34 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:44 PM

    spartaninnh says: Jun 19, 2012 2:17 PM

    I wish people would stop saying, “This isn’t a court of law.” Due process and fundamental fairness apply regardless of the tribunal; it’s just a sliding scale as to the amount of process that is due. I think when you’re talking about taking a year out of someone’s finite athletic career and income, there’s a LOT more process due than “This is what these people told our investigators.”
    —————–

    Except when you negotiate a CBA that gives the NFL the power to suspend you and your fellow players for just about any reason, you lose most of that right to “due process.”

    Ben Roethlisberger never wound up being charged with the rapes he was accused of. I’m sure many of us probably think he did it, but it’s not like we ever got to see the real evidence against him. Yet he was suspended for tarnishing the image of the league, despite not even being charged, let alone convicted. The same (or similar) thing has happened to many other players who get suspended after arrests, even though they hadn’t been convicted of anything (yet.)

    You may not want to hear it, but “This is not a court of law” is extremely relevant. The players negotiate with the league to craft a CBA, and the CBAs always give the league the power to suspend players for just about any reason. The players’ lawyers crying about “due process” are just posturing for the PR battle. Their “due process” rights haven’t been violated, because they negotiated them away in the CBA.

  28. bunjy96 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:45 PM

    It’s time for Florio to take of his lawyers hat on this topic.

    These event are not being held in any level of a court setting.

    Guess it builds up hits for the site tho and that makes money for PFT!

  29. nowillrepeat says: Jun 19, 2012 2:49 PM

    If not for the cheap shots they took on Favre, the Vikings win that game and probably the Super Bowl. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Saints.
    ——————————————-
    So, the cheap shots on farve caused Peterson to fumble 5 times and the coach to have a 12 men penalty after a time out in the game’s most crucial moment?

    Seems reasonable.

  30. 808raiderinparadise says: Jun 19, 2012 2:51 PM

    Thats hilarious, I want to see Vilma next time they shuv microphones in his face …. there was a reason yesterday he had his stunnah shades on to hide his lying eyes.

    I wonder how his “tainted” reputation is now? Who is to blame Vilma?

    Yourself.

    Go play in the CFL or chase Favre around in a Wrangler commercial in the mud.

  31. crabboil says: Jun 19, 2012 2:53 PM

    i’m also wondering about Ornstein’s involvement in the investigation. why would he feel compelled to cooperate?

  32. mjkelly77 says: Jun 19, 2012 2:54 PM

    NFL says Williams, Ornstein, unnamed coach corroborated Vilma’s offer on Favre
    ___________________

    Vilma was heard to say earlier today “Aw man, they know I was just kidding around”.

  33. lbpackfan says: Jun 19, 2012 2:55 PM

    Queue yet again the Viking whiners on this.

    If it wasn’t for ALLLLL those CHEAP shots, Favre would’ve NEVER stuck Tracy Porter in the chest…and the Vikes turn the ball over 4-5 times or whatever it was.

    As sick as bounties are, it’s almost as sickening listening to the Viking fans cry about it. Yes, it sucks when you’re a brutally awful franchise looking for championship #1 in your 50th year, but c’mon!!!!

  34. 49ersgiants4life says: Jun 19, 2012 2:58 PM

    Let’s get more bounties going cause the league is slowly turning to a weak sport honestly I see bigger collisions in soccer that don’t get called

  35. phreakin says: Jun 19, 2012 3:01 PM

    To those of you questioning the NFL. Especially the one guy saying how he can’t believe everyone is taking the NFL’s word for everything. Let me clue you in here. The NFL is a multi BILLION dollar company. They have no reason to lie and BILLION$ of rea$on$ not to lie. If they didn’t have their facts straight, they as well as everyone in the world knows they’d be sued and would lose LOTS and LOTS of money. All of the owners are used to business and making money, not losing it over suspending a handful of players. So yes, I believe the NFL. Because I know they’re not stupid enough, and they have teams of lawyers not stupid enough to make things up just because they could.

  36. armanixd says: Jun 19, 2012 3:01 PM

    As a Vikings fan, regardless of the bad calls, Brett Favre had the chance to drive and successfully end the game. I felt bad for the hits he took but this bounty case can not be the sole reason for our defeat.
    Also, I hate the fact that players are already attempting to purposely injure other players in an already life-threatning competition. I am also tired of this stupid case of he-say/she-say. Goodell made his ruling; Sorry Vilma, but if this evidence is valid . . I hope you spent you’re money well.

  37. truthfactory says: Jun 19, 2012 3:05 PM

    For all the Goodell bashers out there, I really think you guys have zero perspective on how a commisioner should act.

    Lets go through the facts…

    Goodell had gotten word of a potential bounty/ pay for performance program going on for years in NO. He warned them up to 3 times to knock it off, but apparently they didnt. Someone from within the organization likely comes forward and gives him all the details, many of which he’s able to reasonably verify through various pieces of evidence (Williams audio tapes, players admitting to it and also saying coaches told them to continue to deny, audio of hargrove asking for his money when he thought he knocked favre out of a game, incriminating emails as well as powerpoint slides with pictures of Dog the bounty hunter with text saying “go hunting!”, as well as handwritten notes on contributions as well as payouts).

    After gathering evidence, he invites the accused to come in and speak with him in regards to his findings to see what they have to say. While some declined, others did talk and cooberated the evidence admitting the program as well as the attempted cover up. Now those that declined to talk w/ the commish try to claim they dont know why they are suspended…. Well, you would have known and had an opportunity to defend yourself if you showed up to your meeting in your attempt to plead the 5th. Just because you decided not to talk to the commish and he wasnt given the opportunity to present you with his proof, doesnt mean there wasnt any. You had a chance to defend yourself, bit instead took the advice of the NFLPA and chose not to.

    If it were me and I was falsely accused of something like, Id be knocking down the commish’s door asking for proof, instead you chose to hide behind semantics and act like it was a blind witch hunt.

    Sorry, bit the evidence was there and you chose not to defend yourself. He had to act, and he did. Kudos to him for doing so. Now cant this story just go away??

  38. smstonerock says: Jun 19, 2012 3:08 PM

    My biggest issue with all of this is that Vilma and the other players aren’t spending their efforts really denying anything. Instead they’re trying as hard as they can to come off as the victim and distract the fans from the real issue here by screaming “where’s the proof?” To me, that’s an indictment in and of itself, kinda like “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.” We all know that those words are usually spoken by the guilty. It’s working though, because there are some who hear this and then come to the conclusion that the comish and his cronies are a bunch of crooked people just out to stick it to the players. What possible purpose would that serve?

    Instead of owning up to it, these players are looking for any sort of technicality and loophole they can find. What ever happened to doing the right thing for doing the right thing’s sake?

  39. youafool says: Jun 19, 2012 3:11 PM

    I wonder if the Saints fans on here saying “be weary other NFL teams Goodell can do this to your team” were the same fans telling Cowboys and Skins fans to quit whining when Goodell actually punished a team for NOT breaking the rules… Karma sucks don’t it Aints fans?

  40. paulitik74 says: Jun 19, 2012 3:13 PM

    This isn’t a court. The NFL doesn’t have to bring witnesses to the appeals. The Players signed away their rights to the NFL to get the CBA done to ensure that they get paid on time. Vilma needs to go talk to Drew Brees and Scott Fujita about it.

  41. pitch87mph says: Jun 19, 2012 3:15 PM

    Did they sign affidavits? Isn’t that essentially a sworn statement of truth? Doesn’t mean the players shouldn’t have the right to cross examine. But certainly if there are affidavits to these statements, it lends some credibility. If not, then I would agree they need to be under oath.

  42. chandler1 says: Jun 19, 2012 3:17 PM

    My respect for Favre went up 110%. Tough SOB. Cheaters won the game.

  43. ilovefoolsball says: Jun 19, 2012 3:18 PM

    So basically the Saints are being punished because they said they wanted to do some bad stuff but never actually did any bad stuff as is evidenced by the lack of personal fouls and after the whistle hits.

    The lesson to learn here for all defensive players and coaches is talk nice, be nice, don’t try to hurt your opponent, offer them gifts and sweets, maybe a foot massage?
    Tell them your love for them is like a gazelle, or a young stag.
    Tell them that love is patient, love is kind, it does not boast, it is not proud.
    Love one another. Politely ask the quarterback to have a seat to avoid having to tackle him.
    Never talk of horse play or rough housing.

    It is better to be caught drunk driving, smoking marijuana, launching at an opponent and leading with your helmet, hitting an opponent after the whistle, stomping on an opponent on the ground, throwing a helmet, punching an opponent, cursing on camera or any number of other offenses than to be caught red handed talking about doing bad things.

    Because we all know that words speak louder than actions.

  44. thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 19, 2012 3:21 PM

    Aaron says:Jun 19, 2012 2:25 PM

    thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 19, 2012 1:57 PM

    If not for the cheap shots they took on Favre, the Vikings win that game and probably the Super Bowl. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Saints.

    ……………………………………………………………………………….

    The Vikings lost because they couldn’t block, hold onto the ball, or count to twelve. Of course, the best part was watching #4 throw late, across his body and over the middle, which was just…beautiful. And predictable. If you want to blame someone, look at the guys in purple. And if you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Vikings.
    ______

    All that is true, but if not for the cheap shots one of those interceptions never happens and the one at the end doesn’t happen because the Vikings are so far ahead they don’t have to throw the ball. The 12th man penalty also doesn’t matter.

    Your problem is you love cheaters. Are you Aaron Rodgers?

  45. mjkelly77 says: Jun 19, 2012 3:27 PM

    kcfanatic says:Jun 19, 2012 2:17 PM

    There are only 2 scenarios in this case. If it was as bad as the NFL says, then the NFL needs to turn over all hard evidence to the NFLPA, and the authorities …
    ________________

    What “authorities”? The IRS? This isn’t a trial. The Commissioner of the NFL has made a ruling and meted out the punishment. The CBA grants him the authority to do this. The only reason this issue is in the forefront is because certain scribes want it to be. If Vilma persists, Goodell will release more information which will further illustrate what a lying a$$ clown Vilma really is. Goodell is just trying to protect the informants and that has always been his primary concern regardless of what certain scribes are calling for.

  46. pmars64 says: Jun 19, 2012 3:34 PM

    As a Saints fan, I certainly don’t want to see bounties on players and if the Saints truly are guilty, than they deserve to be punished. So far, however, it remains mostly based on the NFL’s word and not much more. Until the NFL really does turn over all the evidence to the players, attorneys, and the public, they are open to fair criticism. Drips and drabs and he said/she said does not count as hard evidence. The NFL does a great job of media spin as they did during the lock-out.

    Even if the Saints did have a bounty system as extensive as the NFL claims, they are by no means the only team to have ever had one. Even last week, when asked about bounties, Jim Brown himself laughed because he said they have been part of the game since the very start and he actually felt bad for the Saints. And the documentary guy who outed Williams audio even said the Saints didn’t do anything different in last year’s Niners game than in 15 other games with other teams he watched.

    So, please get over your righteous hypocrisy. You’re an idiot if you think the Saints are true villains in this story and everyone else plays by the rules, doesn’t try to hurt other players, doesn’t take money for inflicting injuries. How about an asterick to every Niners SB win because they coached their offensive linemen to injure defensive players knees? How about astericks on the Giants first 2 SB wins where they clearly went out to hurt Montana?

    And, yet another sour grapes stab by Vikings fans. Again, if the Vikings had won just as the Saints did, how many Viking fans would be willing to give up the SB trophy? How many other fans if your team won like the Saints did?

    The stupidity of many fans is really beyond belief.

  47. jamaltimore says: Jun 19, 2012 3:54 PM

    Can training camp start soon enough. The players should shut up and take it for the rest of the players and teams who all do the same thing but just aren’t as stupid to broadcast.

    What this article brings to light is that Pro football players and coaches really AREN’T that smart as they are made out to be. MOST are just touched by God.

  48. Aaron says: Jun 19, 2012 4:09 PM

    thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 19, 2012 3:21 PM

    Aaron says:Jun 19, 2012 2:25 PM

    thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 19, 2012 1:57 PM

    If not for the cheap shots they took on Favre, the Vikings win that game and probably the Super Bowl. If you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Saints.

    ……………………………………………………………………………….

    The Vikings lost because they couldn’t block, hold onto the ball, or count to twelve. Of course, the best part was watching #4 throw late, across his body and over the middle, which was just…beautiful. And predictable. If you want to blame someone, look at the guys in purple. And if you don’t believe that, you didn’t see the game or you’re blinded by your loyalty to the Vikings.
    ______

    All that is true, but if not for the cheap shots one of those interceptions never happens and the one at the end doesn’t happen because the Vikings are so far ahead they don’t have to throw the ball. The 12th man penalty also doesn’t matter.

    Your problem is you love cheaters. Are you Aaron Rodgers?
    …………………………………………………………………………….

    Keep living in fantasy land, Vikings fan. None of those shots were cheap/egregious and any that were considered a little late by the refs, got flagged. All the Saints did was score more points and make less mistakes. But by all means, keep the tears coming, for they are delicious. And if it’s an apology you want, fine: Sorry for playing tackle football.

    And if I were Aaron Rodgers, I would be busy making room in my trophy case for another NFC North title and penciling in two victories against the Vikings next season, not posting on a PFT article.

  49. monkeesfan says: Jun 19, 2012 7:20 PM

    Aaron misses that the Vikings outplayed the Saints – what ultimately did them in was Brett Favre.

    The broader point that the NFL is lying in asserting Vilma etc. had a bounty to injure opposing players remains the truth.

  50. Aaron says: Jun 19, 2012 10:03 PM

    monkeesfan says: Jun 19, 2012 7:20 PM

    Aaron misses that the Vikings outplayed the Saints – what ultimately did them in was Brett Favre.

    The broader point that the NFL is lying in asserting Vilma etc. had a bounty to injure opposing players remains the truth.
    …………………………………………………………………………..

    I’m not missing anything. The Vikings outgained the Saints, sure. But the Saints executed (on offense and defense) when they had to and the Vikings didn’t. And I’ll take winning on the scoreboard over winning on the stat sheet any day. We clutched up. We got the Lombardi. And we polish it with the tears of people still whining about losing a game that happened two years ago.

  51. monkeyboymotors says: Jun 19, 2012 10:22 PM

    If I were a lying cheating weasle, I’d walk out of my only chance to explain or “come clean” and have a chance to reduce my syspension, and acually make money,rather than flip burgers to get bye. Oh I forgot Vilma did something wrong and feels he needs threaten someone by suing them becaus he got caught. SO he’s really just a self rightgeous D-BAG , or a saint. [samething]

  52. thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 20, 2012 12:27 PM

    Aaron says:Jun 19, 2012 4:09 PM

    Keep living in fantasy land, Vikings fan. None of those shots were cheap/egregious and any that were considered a little late by the refs, got flagged. All the Saints did was score more points and make less mistakes. But by all means, keep the tears coming, for they are delicious. And if it’s an apology you want, fine: Sorry for playing tackle football.
    ________

    I guess you forgot about the play when two guys went high-low on Favre, his ankle was mangled, and he threw an interception. That was a late hit that should have been a penalty with the interception overturned. The NFL admitted the officials made a mistake by not calling the penalty. You think 15 yards, a first down, and a quarterback who can walk instead of an interception and a devastating injury wouldn’t have made a difference in that game? I may be whining but I’m not delusional.

  53. Aaron says: Jun 20, 2012 6:49 PM

    thankheavenfornumberseven says: Jun 20, 2012 12:27 PM

    Aaron says:Jun 19, 2012 4:09 PM

    Keep living in fantasy land, Vikings fan. None of those shots were cheap/egregious and any that were considered a little late by the refs, got flagged. All the Saints did was score more points and make less mistakes. But by all means, keep the tears coming, for they are delicious. And if it’s an apology you want, fine: Sorry for playing tackle football.
    ________

    I guess you forgot about the play when two guys went high-low on Favre, his ankle was mangled, and he threw an interception. That was a late hit that should have been a penalty with the interception overturned. The NFL admitted the officials made a mistake by not calling the penalty. You think 15 yards, a first down, and a quarterback who can walk instead of an interception and a devastating injury wouldn’t have made a difference in that game? I may be whining but I’m not delusional.
    ****************************************
    Oh, you mean that hit where the Vikings defender was pushing McCray down as he was getting to Favre and Ayodele simply ran into him? The one where Favre said the ref apologized and then the ref denied it. Nope, I didn’t forget about it. Nothing dirty about it. You might want to watch the whole play. Just saying. Ayodele could have put #4 in a body bag if he wanted to, but he didn’t. And neither hit was late. But if you want to shift your whining to the refs now, by all means, be my guest. That is, after all, the mating call of sore losers.

    Oh, and if you’re going to try to predict what would have happened if that had been flagged, the only QB you would have had that would have been able to walk would have been the backup. I mean, if you’re going to live in fantasy land, at least do it right.

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