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Video doesn’t prove that Hargrove said “give me my money”

Anthony Hargrove AP

Maybe it really wasn’t Anthony Hargrove’s voice saying, “Give me my money.”

The video/audio of a comment supposedly made by the former Saints defensive end during the third quarter of the 2009 NFC title game provides further proof of Drew Brees‘ point (even if it wasn’t articulated the best way possible) that the media has more power than anyone realizes.

The NFL, however, fully realizes.

And the NFL used the power of the media to make millions believe on Monday that Saints defensive Anthony Hargrove said, ‘Bobby, give me my money’ after being told by assistant head coach Joe Vitt that Vikings quarterback Brett Favre may have suffered a broken leg in the 2009 NFC title game.

The seed was planted and fertilized when a dozen members of the media covering Monday’s appeal hearing received an invitation to witness an encore performance of former prosecutor Mary Jo White’s summary of evidence.  The relevant excerpt from the transcript of the media session contains White’s explanation, comments from NFL Security chief Jeff Miller, comments from NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, and two of the members of the media — Peter King and Jim Varney.

White initially explained that the video contains Hargrove’s “voice and picture.”  After the video was shown once to the members of the media, Aiello suggested that the media pay attention to Hargrove winking and smiling after hearing that Favre broke his leg.  White later claims that Hargrove “smiles and winks and states, ‘Bobby, pay me my money.'”

Varney asks White, “How do you know it’s Hargrove’s voice?”

White, perhaps not recognizing in that moment the ironic link to a very common lawyer joke, says, “Because you can see his lips moving.”

But here’s the problem, and I didn’t notice this the first time I saw the video. 

When Hargrove’s lips can be seen moving, his voice can’t be heard.

Only after Hargrove’s face is fully obscured by the head and shoulders of defensive tackle Remi Ayodele are the words “give me my money” audible.

No one has questioned this because the media present at the session was told — and in turn told the rest of us — that Hargrove said, “Bobby, give me my money.”  Even Peter King, who seemed curious and a bit skeptical in the transcript, affirmatively stated twice in his article following the media session that Hargrove said what the NFL claims he said.

Watch the video.  At most, Hargrove is the one who says “Bobby.”  By the time “give me my money” comes out, Hargrove’s mouth and face and head are obscured by Ayodele.

Also, don’t forget that Hargrove didn’t apply the hit that resulted in Favre possibly having a broken leg.  Instead, Favre had been hit low by McCray and high by Ayodele.  So why would Hargrove be asking for any money at all?

None of this changes the fact that, barring evidence that the phrase was added artificially after the fact (I’m not saying it was . . . yet), someone said “give me my money.”  Which supports the conclusion that there was a bounty on Favre.

But I don’t believe the video shown by the league to the media shows that Hargrove said it.  And I can’t believe that the NFL presumes conclusively that he said it.  And I can’t believe the NFL sold it as fact to the media.  And I can’t believe the media swallowed the hook.

And I can’t believe I didn’t pay close enough attention to figure it out before today.

And given Hargrove’s passionate denial that it’s his voice, I believe him.

This serious flaw in the presentation of the evidence necessarily undermines the league’s entire investigation, further reinforcing the importance of asking tough questions about the proof, the process, and all other aspects of the case.  Regardless of whether the players are guilty or innocent, the NFL has peddled to the public, via the media, a stream of inconsistencies, mischaracterizations, and embellishments that raise legitimate concerns about the competence and/or the motives of everyone whose fingerprints are on the file.

UPDATE 8:44 p.m. ET:  A prior version of this item explained that, when Hargrove’s lips are moving, his words aren’t audible.  I’ve studied the video several more times, and it now appears to me that Hargrove is the one who says, “Bobby.”  However, by the time “give me my money” is uttered, Hargrove’s face and head and mouth are obscured.  Thus, the video doesn’t prove who said it.  It could have been Hargrove.  It could have been Ayodele.  (It would make more sense if the league were claiming it was Ayodele, since he hit Favre high when “Bobby” hit Favre low.)  It also could have been someone outside of view of the camera, talking about something completely unrelated to Favre’s apparently injury.

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108 Responses to “Video doesn’t prove that Hargrove said “give me my money””
  1. danielcp0303 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:02 PM

    Really great stuff

  2. jessethegreat says: Jun 20, 2012 6:04 PM

    Conspiracy Theorists!

    So, the NFL wants to give itself a black-eye by making up the Saints whole bountygate?

    Give me a break!

    Guilty as charged. If they keep fighting their EARNED punishment, I hope The Rog turns them over to authorities so Johnny Law can go after them next!

    Your NFL suspensions are lifted fellas…. but instead of the year a 8 game suspensions, You will be spending YEARS behind bars for attempting harm and or life on other players. Not only the ones that participated in the grotesque acts, but those that knew about them as well. Yes, that means you Mr. All and Mighty Brew Drees.

  3. thegreatgabbert says: Jun 20, 2012 6:06 PM

    The Stains had been cautioned before they took the field, “Don’t move your lips in case there is a lie detector trained on you.”.

  4. Donald Whitaker says: Jun 20, 2012 6:08 PM

    Nah if you watch the video when his lips move that’s when you hear “Bobby” then a pause then “give me my money.” So it still coould very well be him. Your best point is he wasnt the one that applied the hit so why would he be asking for money. Regardless the NFL has completely fumbled this investigation and I hope the players and coaches see some sort of reduction in their suspensions.

  5. gvicknair says: Jun 20, 2012 6:11 PM

    Does raise some interesting questions.

  6. sbdt says: Jun 20, 2012 6:11 PM

    Oh and “jessethegreat” – grotesque acts? Are you kidding me?

    Who’s YOUR team? Has any player YOU root for ever injured another player?

    Further, has any defense YOU root for ever conspired to knock a quarterback out? What in the h3ll do you think “get pressure on the quarterback” means? You know, the thing EVERY COACH says is the objective of EVERY GAME?

    So tired of this.

  7. calv23 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:21 PM

    Just about every piece of evidence or press release coming from the NFL has had something fishy around it, or some retraction or correction that gets buried in the next round of the story.

    This is in addition to the many lies Goodell told during the lockout, especially about fans wanting an 18 game season.

    At this point, I can’t believe that anyone can’t believe that Goodell is lying! His whole job is to be as “aggressive” as possible for a multi-billion dollar corporation. He’s paid to be a Wall St. style sociopath on behalf of the league’s bottom line. He was raised by politicians–of course the man knows how to lie! ;)

  8. heroofthisparish says: Jun 20, 2012 6:22 PM

    Ok, so if it wasn’t Hargrove who said it, who was it? It was definately someone (unless you are accusing the NFL of fabricating evidence).

    So will the Saints players be so quick to come forward and identify the potentially guilty party, or will they just close ranks and seemingly attempt to conceal more facts?

  9. sadskinsfan89 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:30 PM

    he clearly said it. even tho i dont agree with this witch hunt type process u cant deny he said it

  10. vixenofdabears says: Jun 20, 2012 6:32 PM

    It appears that the NFL has taken down the video which is a shame. I’d like to watch and form my own opinion. I think it’s a stretch that the league would go to this extent to manufacture evidence of a scandal that would only negatively impact their reputation… Especially considering that they have enough on their plate with the lawsuits. Perhaps they had too much spare time on their hands once the CBA was finalized and this became a new pet project.

  11. sadskinsfan89 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:32 PM

    and the video sound is off from the lip movement almost like watching a chines movie in english

  12. Patriot42 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:36 PM

    The NFL is starting to become a bore.

  13. calbuc says: Jun 20, 2012 6:36 PM

    This is a useful post, especially regarding the misidentification of Hargrove. But you go beyond the evidence with the statement:

    “This serious flaw in the presentation of the evidence necessarily undermines the league’s entire investigation, further reinforcing the importance of asking tough questions about the proof, the process, and all other aspects of the case.”

    Out of hundreds of datapoints in a sample (the whole NFL investiagation), a few problematic points do not discredit the whole. I appreciate your attorney skills, but when you end with a statement that sounds more like a summation to a jury, you lose some credibility, just as the NFL loses some credibility with the misidentification of Hargrove. I want to hear analysis.

  14. roadbiscuit says: Jun 20, 2012 6:43 PM

    Former Saint Heyman backs Hargrove in dispute over bounty evidence…”I was right there, right there in that closeup [of the defensive huddle] they’re talking about,” Heyman said. “Every time they came off the field I was standing right there talking to them, and I know who said it, and I can say with 100 percent accuracy who said it, and I know 100 percent it wasn’t Anthony.”

  15. vikingamericann says: Jun 20, 2012 6:44 PM

    Jun 20, 2012 6:04 PM
    Conspiracy Theorists!

    So, the NFL wants to give itself a black-eye by making up the Saints whole bountygate?

    Give me a break!

    The NFL is counting on fans to be as dumb as you. One only has to look as far as the genius running the banks to see an industry give itself a black eye over something stupid.

  16. sinnermike says: Jun 20, 2012 6:45 PM

    This whole thing is going to blow up real soon. I think the government is going to step in because this is such a visual disaster. The other option is that the players attempt to take their grievance to court. The last and least probable option is that the players band together and protest. Just a thought because this is getting uglier every day.

  17. adstock1962 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:47 PM

    This would be funny were it not sad. People have voice prints much like finger prints. Why do you think they scramble their voice in the movies instead of just taking in a fake accent. The only one more clueless than NFL players are the sportswriters that cover them.

  18. jasonvining says: Jun 20, 2012 6:50 PM

    Am I the only one watching that video who actually does hear something when Hargrove first moves his lips? But that still doesn’t prove that Hargrove said “Give me my money,” since he wasn’t on camera when you hear that part.

  19. kiltherl says: Jun 20, 2012 6:54 PM

    I’m sorry if you dont find it interesting but this is an excellent story, and my hat is off to florio for playing devil’s advocate. There is something seriously wrong with the nfl’s investigation….

  20. packeye says: Jun 20, 2012 6:56 PM

    I am by no means a lawyer, but to me this video is pretty damning. Now I know in the court of law it may be different and others may view it different too, but to me that voice is clearly in sequence with Hargrove speaking. He looks up, says Hey and then his face is covered but the speaking continues. The sentence seems to run together if you know what I mean, to me its common sense and pretty obvious. But again, obvious wont cut it in the court of law. BTW I am a Packer fan and far from a Goodell fan.

  21. Fan On Fire_Maurice Barksdale says: Jun 20, 2012 6:56 PM

    People need to realize that the NFL didn’t necessarily have to go public with this. They could have levied fines and handled this internally, but they went to the media because they are trying to use Bountygate as propaganda to influence the court of public opinion that they are trying to make the game safer as they are being sued by former players.

    They are playing fast and loose with people’s reputations without knowing full well who did or said what. It’s clear the Saints had some type of pay for performance system, but it’s also clear tht the NFL doesn’t have the slam dunk they thought they had. And by associating misdeeds and quotes as being absolutely said and done by named players without really knowing it as fact, then that is just as irresponsible as anything the Saints did.

    The NFL is on a witch hunt and they obviuosly do not care who’s name they have to slander to drive their point home. But by playing fast and loose with the evidence, the NFL has exposed itself as being just a negligent as those they presume to judge.

  22. goodolebaghead says: Jun 20, 2012 6:59 PM

    If you think the Saints are guilty, and you think their punishment is fair, then YOU should be mad at the NFL for the horrible job they’ve done of handling this. If you think the Saints are guilty, but not nearly as guilty as the NFL wants us to think, then YOU should be mad at the NFL for the horrible job they’ve done of handling this. If you think the Saints are innocent and should have never been punished or defamed, then YOU should be mad at the NFL for the horrible job they’ve done of handling this.

    At this point, EVERYONE should be mad at the NFL. Guilty or not, the NFL has gone out of their way to keep from portraying the actual truth.

    Roger Goodell*

  23. mdd913 says: Jun 20, 2012 6:59 PM

    vixenofdabears says: Jun 20, 2012 6:32 PM

    It appears that the NFL has taken down the video which is a shame. I’d like to watch and form my own opinion.

    —————————————————————-

    League doesn’t want people to form their own opinions. They want sheep who believe whatever exaggerations, half-truths and flat-out lies their mealy-mouthed media machine spoon-feeds them.

    Kudos to some of you for finally waking the hell up and noticing that something very wrong is happening here.

  24. qdog112 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:00 PM

    Asking the question why the NFL would put forth such garbage as evidence, doesn’t mean they aren’t. Maybe they made the conclusion so early into the investigation that they failed to actually put together a case.

    Clearly, they never expected anyone to have the audacity to ask to see the evidence. Now, not only do the players want it, the public also wants to see it.

    I think they’re making it up as they go.

  25. shian11 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:01 PM

    The groundhog saw his shadow today so 6 more weeks of bounty gate and 6 more weeks till training camp. On a odd note, the groundhog was dressed up like “dog” the bounty hunter. Bit of irony

  26. whoisthatteam says: Jun 20, 2012 7:05 PM

    How do you go from someone saying “give me my money” to “their must be a bounty”?

    These players get large bonuses for winning Championship Games.

    How do we know whoever was talking wasn’t referring to the game bonus after hearing favre wasn’t coming back in?

  27. mornelithe says: Jun 20, 2012 7:07 PM

    Ok, so let’s say it wasn’t Hargrove. Why exactly did it take this long for him to mention that it wasn’t his voice, then? See, this is exactly why Goodell gave everyone involved a chance to say their piece, before the appeal, during the appeal, and right now.

    Does it bother anyone else that these players are letting this get drawn out so long, and THEN saying something?

    It’s clear there was a bounty system in place, it’s unclear as to whose voice is on the video, that’s a perfectly fine point to bring up, and the NFL should definitely re-evaluate that. But, Hargrove should’ve said something sooner.

  28. FinFan68 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:10 PM

    I do not think Hargrove said it. I believe it was Adoyele that did. (who was mic’d in that game anyway?) Maybe there should be another player in the suspension sweepstakes. Unless Hargrove contributed money to the pool (can’t remember if he was accused of that) he may actually deserve to have his suspension lifted. Maybe start up another file and suspend Ayodele (or whoever actually said it) instead. Players would no longer be able to say the process is a sham and the message is still sent to the rest of the league/public/future litigation judges/juries.

  29. winner2277 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:15 PM

    Mike Florio,

    Question for you. If it was heard that someone did indeed say “give me my money” on the tape that was close enough for the microphone to pick it up, who says it had to be a player that said it? Who can say it was not someone saying to another that owed them money, in an effort to get them to pay up, that was in range for the microphone to pick it up? Just because that was heard does NOT prove it was in any way, shape or form, have anything to do with a so called bounty system. Why is the media NOT confronting Goodell with these MANY UNANSWERED questions? No one wants to hold their feet to the fire like than have not hesitated to hold the Saints feet to. Where has the journalism gone to?

  30. saints97 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:18 PM

    I think the NFL taking the video down tells us more than anything else. That’s the part that’s unbelievable.

  31. taintedsaints2009 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:23 PM

    Gee. i guess i will have to listen to that 10 minute long rant by Gregg Williams telling his players to CUT OFF THE HEAD of their opponesnts, and to GET THAT GUYS KNEE TORN UP on youtube for verification then.

    it is absolutley a FACT that the Saints are dirty cheap shot cheats.

    the fact that pft is now trying to almost come to the saints defense just is comical. grow a pair, you inverted dongs.

  32. gbmickey says: Jun 20, 2012 7:24 PM

    The problem with Saint fans is they are conveniantly forgetting a major issue here by trying to deflect this possibly not being Hargrove and now saying it is a big NFl conspiracy. The issue is that it was still said by a Saint player which leads a logical person to the conclusion of a bounty system.

  33. chauncey36 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:29 PM

    Why would Anthony Hargrove be asking Bobby for “his money”? If anything, Bobby should have been asking for HIS money seeing as how he actually made the tackle in question.

  34. winner2277 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:35 PM

    mornelithe,

    Let’s see, maybe it’s the first time he has heard it with them trying to say it was him? Before it was said that those words were said, but never by whom. Why would he come out and say it was not him when he KNOWS that a voice recognition can be applied to it to officially make that determination. Why didn’t the NFL in their so called investigative process NOT HAVE THIS DONE? Why did they, all of a sudden, remove it on the web? You see, this is what the problem is and you are part of it with your questions here. NO ONE is holding the NFL’s feet to the fire like the NFL than they are doing their best to hold the Saints feet to the fire. There have been many lies told by the NFL and many leaks that were proven to be lies, yet not one media person or fan outside of the Saints fans that want the NFL to start answer the hard questions. When their feet starts getting held to the same fire, you will see the charges dropped and punishments dismissed and Goodell fired.

  35. cliffordc05 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:39 PM

    There is something seriously flawed in the process and I am not certain quite what it is or how to fix it. The League begins an investigation of wrongdoing by the Saints. At the beginning it seems as if the investigation was impartial and not perhaps not terribly aggressive.

    Somewhere during the process the League seems to have had an axe to grind and many of its recent actions have been very unfair. Such as providing evidence to the defendants as late as possible and possible even too late to be admissable. The League is not longer conducting an impartial investigation but is aggressively prosecuting the Saint players. I don’t know if this is because they are upset that the Saints’ organization lied to them but it has now pitted the League/Commissioner against the players in a truly unhealthy relationship.

    The NFL has enough problems with litigation. It should not take negotiations with the NFLPA for them to figure out a better path in future investigations of this type.

  36. winner2277 says: Jun 20, 2012 7:39 PM

    gbmickey says: Jun 20, 2012 7:24 PM

    The problem with Saint fans is they are conveniantly forgetting a major issue here by trying to deflect this possibly not being Hargrove and now saying it is a big NFl conspiracy. The issue is that it was still said by a Saint player which leads a logical person to the conclusion of a bounty system.

    Really? Then you can provide PROOF that is was indeed a Saint player? You can 1000% prove it was not a camera man or equipment guy that was owed money by another and was caught on tape asking for it? You can be 1000% sure it was not added to the tape AFTER the fact? Where do you get your information from anyway?

  37. arizonapetdoctor says: Jun 20, 2012 7:47 PM

    Is it me, or is Florio starting to sound like a defense counsel? This is his right as a blogger, but if he would like to be seen as a reporter I believe he should be neutral or at least state he is acting as a devil’s advocate to the NFL. I have not made up my mind as far as the guilt or innocence of the players, and do believe that the suspensions are fairly heavy-handed. I also believe that the CBA could have been changed, albeit, according to a previous PFT blog (no longer can I consider this site as one which produces impartial articles) the players would have had to given into other concessions. When I renegotiate my contract, there are things I have to give into to get other things that I want, one of which was changing the language on the discipline and termination clause by giving up a percentage of vacation and continuing education reimbursement. Before the hate piles up, please note that I do not believe that the suspensions are justified in their entirety, but the decision to allow RG to be the investigative committee, prosecutor, jury and judge was addressed by the CBA and the players agreed upon it (minus the steelers). Until this decision is reviewed in a court of law (still questionable if that is going to happen, minus the Vilma defamation lawsuit which Vilma has more to prove then RG), then we will have to make our own conclusions, which have more to do with our biases, and less to do with the actual cases

  38. gbmickey says: Jun 20, 2012 7:59 PM

    Winner are you serious? Like i said to a logical person the conclusion one would come to is a bounty system whether it was Hargrove or not. A camera man? if that had any truth to it im certain that Hargrove would have said as such. You and comments like this is what makes Saint fans laughable to the rest of us. Im sure williams voice was made up as well right?

  39. jakek2 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:05 PM

    gbmickey says:
    Jun 20, 2012 7:24 PM
    The problem with Saint fans is they are conveniantly forgetting a major issue here by trying to deflect this possibly not being Hargrove and now saying it is a big NFl conspiracy. The issue is that it was still said by a Saint player which leads a logical person to the conclusion of a bounty system.
    ——————————
    Interesting deduction there Mr. Holmes. Surely, such a common statement couldn’t have been made by someone that just reached a contract escalator that game could it? It couldn’t have been said by someone that made an innocent bet on something completely non-bounty oriented could it? It couldn’t have been said as some other celebratory type saying like some players make after making a play (like the Giants did with “Stomp them out”) could it?? btw, let me beat you to it, I hate the Saints.

  40. johnnyappleseed44 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:14 PM

    There was no “Bobby, give me my money”, in fact there was no “Bobby” at all.

    This is what heard. Don’t even look at the subtitles, watch the players head movements and body language. People move when they’re speaking.

    After Vitt stated that Favre broke his leg, #91 Smith turns to Hargrove and Ayodele and asks “Who got him?”

    Ayodele responds “I did, give me my money.”

    Not “Bobby, give me my money.”

    It’s all about the timing and body language.

  41. johnnyappleseed44 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:15 PM

    And I did mean Ayodele. I personally don’t think Hargrove says much of anything audible in that video.

  42. mojosmagic says: Jun 20, 2012 8:22 PM

    If it wasn’t Hargrove then it was the ref.

  43. juvenaldelinquent says: Jun 20, 2012 8:26 PM

    Upon watching the video once it was hard to believe that it is substantial in any way. I’m not saying there isn’t other evidence, but this bit is lacking in substance.

  44. tebowsafraud says: Jun 20, 2012 8:26 PM

    I watched the video 6 times. His lips ARE moving and ARE synchronous to the word “Bobby”. The rest of the sentence is visually obscured but it’s not reasonable to assume Hargrove said “Bobby” (which the video proves) and another player finished the sentence with the “pay me the money” part.

    Unless you are prepared to believe Hargrove said “Bobby…hand me that towel” (or something innocuous) and the NFL then dubbed in the “pay me my money” it’s clear the league is being logical.

    And to focus on this issue (as the conspiracy nuts and Saint fans seem to have done) ignores the FACT (and its a rather inconvenient one) that the three top coaches on the team have “pled guilty” to running a bounty program. The GM has “pled guilty” to knowing a bounty program was going on. It’s (the word BOUNTY) on spreadsheets the Saints kept and on visual motivational aids (the Dog the BOUNTY Hunter one comes to mind) the team used.

    Sorry folks. But the evidence-in it’s complete totality including confessions from the masterminds-would convince anyone with an open mind that there is no “conspiracy” here.

    For those others out there I suggest you link arms with 9/11 truthers and Obama birthers and compare notes on the JFK assassination.

  45. gumby321 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:27 PM

    Here’s a question: How can the audio pick up what Hargrove is supposedly saying, but not pick up what Ayodele says to Will Smith when he leans over?

    Shouldn’t we be able to hear what he’s saying, since the camera was right behind him as he sat on the bench.

    To me, you could clearly hear Hargrove say “Bobby” but that’s all.

    Like I said in a post on another article, I’m a Favre fan and after watching the video the first time, I was positive it was Hargrove. I had decided before I ever watched the video that he did it, so I was only focused on him when I first watched the video. But if you watch Ayodele, you can see him saying something to Will Smith. Again, how did the mic not pick up what he was saying, and only pick up Hargrove?

    And why would the NFL take the video down, if it backed up their claims that Hargrove is the one who said “give me my money?”

  46. roadbiscuit says: Jun 20, 2012 8:30 PM

    >Ok, so let’s say it wasn’t Hargrove. Why exactly did it take this long for him to mention that it wasn’t his voice, then? See, this is exactly why Goodell gave everyone involved a chance to say their piece, before the appeal, during the appeal, and right now.

    Back in March it was an unidentified voice. It’s only in the last week or so that the NFL and its lackeys have directly connected it to Hargrove and pushed it to the media. As far as Hargrove not meeting with the NFL before the punishments came down, he had a meeting scheduled and the league canceled it with no explanation.

  47. petehemlock says: Jun 20, 2012 8:34 PM

    Man, I’m feeling bountied out. Part of me says what’s the harm in it? Pitchers do it all the time or base runners and it’s called policing by the players. In basketball there’s the hard foul or a flagrant, and don’t even bring up hockey where they break into full on bare-knuckle brawls. So we’re going to essentially split hairs by taking some moral high road during the off-season and scream at the TV come September, “Rip his damn head off!” Who really cares?

  48. dare5259 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:35 PM

    Ok, I really, really want to see voice analysis data, but it is clear to me that Hargrove said something like “Hey Bobby” (LOL, sounds funny to me but that’s what it sounds like) and it looks like Ayodele leans back and says “give me my money”

    I don’t understand how an investigation would be less thorough than us casually listening, but that’s how it seems.

  49. jason1980 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:36 PM

    Oh my, the Goddell slurpers are seeing their pipe dream sold to them hock, line, and sinker by the NFL beginning to evaporate before their very eyes. Absolute power corrupts. You can’t defame an NFL franchise unless you have proof, and you certainly can’t make it up as you go. It’s time to rescind these suspensions, (all of them), and develop a procedure for investigating wrongdoings, and evidence presentation within the NFL that can withstands any kind of scrutiny from whoever questions your actions. The damage is done Mr. Goddell, save what’s left of your reputation.

    Goddell *

  50. yaytaco says: Jun 20, 2012 8:37 PM

    Bare with me – let’s just do a quick review of the events. Bobby McCray hits Favre down low as Remi Adoyele hits Favre up high. Favre then is injured to an unknown extent.

    On the Saints sideline, Joe Vitt is relaying to his guys that he thinks Favre will be out with a broken leg. Let’s just assume the evidence suggesting there’s a large bounty on taking out Favre.

    Now watch the video. We see what appears to be Hargrove winking to his left followed by “Hey Bobby.” From behind, we see Adoyele’s head move into the frame looking in a similar direction as Hargrove. The words “Give me My Money” are heard immediately as Adoyele’s head moves after which it immediately looks to the right.

    Now, I’m not trying to pretend this is anything conclusive. However, Adoyele was half responsible for a hit that took out Favre and his head matches the motion of someone who could have just said “Give me my money.” That might sound silly, but watch the video again thinking Adoyele might have said it. It really does match. If NOTHING else, this is reasonable doubt Hargrove didn’t say it. Moreover, it makes a hell of a lot more sense that he did say it. Why don’t any of the articles on this suggest it?

    Hargrove, you are free to go if that’s the only evidence they’ve got.

  51. dare5259 says: Jun 20, 2012 8:38 PM

    They are clearly two different volumes and two different voices…just sayin’

    I have always stuck up for the NFL trying to clean up the league. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t get this right. Fix it and move on. Apologize to Hargrove, admit the flawed investigation before it happens to them in court and move on. Otherwise, the NFL could lose all or most of its power in discipline.

  52. eyeh8goodell says: Jun 20, 2012 8:45 PM

    I’m no Saints fan, but it’s time for you haters to admit you were wrong. Admit you jumped the gun because you wanted to run trash talk from the anonymity and safety of your computers. And now that it’s blown up in your faces it’s time to man up and admit it. The league wants to change the culture, and they tried to use the Saints as an example by jumping to extreme conclusions. Did any of you people really believe that an investigation about pro football would yield “55,000” pages of documentation? Are you really that dumb? You people took Goodell at his word without ever asking the hard questions. You just wanted to stand on your pedestals and run your mouths. And look at you now.

  53. dzor22 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:03 PM

    you Taints apologists are working way too hard to justify yourselves. If Hargrove and Vilma have so much to say why didn’t they visit the league office when they could have and why leave the appeal proceedings?. Grandstanding. The league IS protecting witnesses; and they should. They don’t want the Taint fans going after them. Not to mention…isn’t there pending litigation? Does the CBA require full disclosure?? These are the questions to be asked.

  54. saintij says: Jun 20, 2012 9:04 PM

    Okay for the last what six months or so the “MEDIA” has been on the “sack” of the NFL this whole time?

    instead of….”asking the tough questions’……. when did YOU and the MEDIA stop being the impartial information giver and started shaping the thoughts and opinions of the average fan?

    ….. Now the MEDIA sucks at their job and by default (I said yesterday) the FANS sucked at their job but at least the fans now have a slight excuse……

    WILL THE MEDIA FINALLY DO THEIR JOB … BETTER? probably not, and we all will still believe anything we see on any site….sad.

  55. gumby321 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:17 PM

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that both Hargrove and Ayodele were speaking at the same time on that video.

    And in that case, who’s to say it wasn’t Ayodele that the audio picked up. As I said earlier, he’s closer to the mic so wouldn’t his voice cover up Hargrove’s?

    Especially when that dome was as loud as it was, I’d think the voice of the player closer to the camera would be the easiest to be heard. jmo

  56. labfan30 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:19 PM

    I’m so sick of the Saints at this point. All of them. There was no bounty program, nobody crossed the line, yet someone utters the words “Give me my money” after a coach says Farve is out of the game.

    And of course, after the scream of “give me my money” everyone looked at the source with surprise. Or they continued to jump and scream and shout excitedly because they thought the opposing QB was coming out of the game.

    Lets attack the NFL and their case. Here is a novel idea boys:

    1) If you didn’t like Goodal being judge and jury, you should have negotiated that out of the contract.

    2) The coaches. . . I’m sick of the denials. Here are some quotes:

    “You’re disappointed in yourself that it got to this point” Sean Payton

    “It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it.” Williams before the announcement of his suspension (he called it a pay for performance program at the time)

    “I apologize to the players of the NFL for my involvement as it is not a true reflection of my values as a father or coach, nor is it reflective of the great respect I have for this game and its core principle of sportsmanship.” Gregg Williams AFTER the suspension was handed down. how does a pay for performance plan have any reflection on your values as a father? Yeah, that’s right, it doesn’t. Can we all act our age and understand this is an admission of something beyond pay for big plays? Seriously?

    The players and coaches are yapping because they want the NFL to lay its cards on the table. As any lawyer will tell you, you don’t lay your cards on the table until you are forced to do so. The NFL has no obligation to release any information at this point and in reality sending any information out there actually hurt them as we see by things like this post. Just because the players and coaches are yapping, however, doesn’t mean they have a case. IF it ever gets to court, we’ll see if they do. I doubt it will and I doubt they do if it does. . . but that’s a pure opinion based on everything I’ve seen, nothing more.

  57. randallflagg52 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:22 PM

    Great job Florio, this skeptical coverage is just what the NFL needs after bungling, not enforcing enough, or flat out ignoring so many issues in the past such as spygate, Superbowl XL, free agent tampering, double standards concerning fines and flags, recent rule changes, and draft day intrigue.

    I love the NFL for it competivness, and these issues I listed above undermine the fairness of the system. I don’t want to see football turned into baseball, and for that to happen the media needs to stop being so sensationalist and TMZish and report on real issues.

    Great job again Florio, keep it up this is why I love your site.

  58. eyeh8goodell says: Jun 20, 2012 9:30 PM

    If Hargrove and Vilma have so much to say why didn’t they visit the league office when they could have and why leave the appeal proceedings?

    ——————–

    Yet again, you’re taking Goodell at his word on that. At this point any rational person should be aware that Goodell is a politician and a snake oil salesman. He has proven NOT to be trustworthy enough to be taken at his word, especially on something like this. He’s simply using the Saints to help effect culture change in order to fend off the coming tidal wave of lawsuits.

  59. winner2277 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:34 PM

    gbmickey,

    No, it comments and assumptions like yours that show a childish mentality. If I had a tape of someone saying something illegal and said it was YOU with nothing on that tape to back up it actually being you, are you telling me it’s ok to accuse and punish you for it even though all I did was make my assumption sound good? Would you lay down and take it? Do you REALLY think that recording is solid, undisputed evidence that any of them said it. You didn’t even address the saying being added after the fact that would be VERY easy to do. Why is that? Is it because you care more about showing your childish hate for the Saints more than the TRUTH? Grow up, because you are giving legit Green Bay Packer fans a VERY BAD NAME.

  60. newkirk850 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:34 PM

    media=fidel goodell’s bitch.

  61. santolonius says: Jun 20, 2012 9:36 PM

    i would like to see all the players’ suspensions in the bounty scandal reduced to a warning. don’t do it again or you’re out of the league. i just don’t buy the evidence against them. the coaches however (who appear to have admitted to something) can have their punishment stand.

  62. pjgrannan says: Jun 20, 2012 9:38 PM

    Remember Goodell stated Hargrove was suspended primarily for lying – not for actual participation in the alleged bounty program. IF the primary evidence he was lying is supposedly this recording – no other evidence was offered in the appeal – and it is not his voice (both Hargrove and a former teammate say it is not and as many have pointed out Hargrove would not be the one getting the money) then suspending Hargrove for lying is tenuous at best.

  63. dremmel69 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:44 PM

    Anyone else feel like they should receive credit serving on jury duty?

    Florio does what lawyers do. Lawyers wait while one side presents their evidence. Then they challenge that evidence by looking for any possible flaw. If you can’t explain why the flaw proves the defendant is not guilty, it is simply enough that the flaw taints the prosecution’s evidence.

    – It depends on what your definition of “is” is…
    – If the glove does not fit, you must acquit…

    Has anyone seen Mike Florio and Perry Mason in the same room at the same time? No? Well, that must mean it is in the realm of possibility that Mike Florio and Perry Mason are the same person. Or at least that Mike Florio plays Perry Mason on PFT……

  64. marcinhouston says: Jun 20, 2012 9:47 PM

    I am starting to wonder if someone is paying Roger Gooddell on the side to deliver a hit that injures the Saints. When all is said and done, Roger may get a seat on the Home Depot board of directors from Arthur Blank for this.

  65. winner2277 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:57 PM

    tebowsafraud,

    So according to you, assumptions are just fine to use for punishment and fines and ruining reputations? Then you would be ok if I came and arrested you on an assumption that you robbed a bank and throw you in jail and post your picture all over the newspaper and TV news stations? Just wondering how far a Saint hater will stoop to show their hate is all.

  66. enders9 says: Jun 20, 2012 9:59 PM

    Hargrove pretty clearly said Bobby before his face was blocked. You hear “Bobby” as he is moving his lips, and by reading his lips it sure looks like he said Bobby.

  67. winner2277 says: Jun 20, 2012 10:02 PM

    tebowsafraud,

    Kindly show us the links that support your assumption that the coaches and GM plead guilty to a bounty system. Tell us why would they admit guilt, but appeal the accusations? Yeah, you make total sense for a moron. Your hate shows your age and I am certain you are not old enough to be posting on any web site, now leave and let the adults handle this debate. Kids, such as yourself, are to be seen, NOT heard.

  68. tedmurph says: Jun 20, 2012 10:08 PM

    Owner of this site remins me of CPowell in front of the UN. Keep tryin’. Maybe Brees had a point, just against the wrong person.

  69. btrdd says: Jun 20, 2012 10:20 PM

    I’m a photographic expert and have given testimony on photographic evidence in court. If I made a statement as Mary Joe White has saying that the video is proof that Hargrove is the person making the give me the money statement, the opposition attorney would fillet me like a speckled trout. All that video proves is someone said this. Everyone should keep in mind that Mary Joe White was a prosecuting attorney and not a judge. Prosecuting attorneys present evidence and argument to support the outcome they desire and not to support the outcome of justice. Any competent attorney would rip this video evidence to shreads.

  70. roadbiscuit says: Jun 20, 2012 10:34 PM

    >If Hargrove and Vilma have so much to say why didn’t they visit the league office when they could have and why leave the appeal proceedings?

    Hargrove had a meeting scheduled and was awaiting flight info when the NFL canceled the meeting unexpectedly. They gave him no explanation. Then they released info to the press that no players had tried to schedule meetings.

  71. jpmelon says: Jun 20, 2012 10:35 PM

    So what you’re saying is that guys on the Saints sideline were happy that Favre might have broken his leg and that someone on the Saints sideline thought he was owed money because of it……You’re right, the whole investigation is BS.

  72. pftcensorssuck says: Jun 20, 2012 10:35 PM

    The point that so many of you are missing is this:

    It doesn’t matter WHOSE voice that is saying “give me my money!”……

    What DOES matter is that ANYONE said “Give me my money!”

    SOMEONE got paid in that locker room, and that in itself PROVES Bountygate is REAL.

    ‘Nuff said.

    The Saints can all shut the hell up now.

  73. roadbiscuit says: Jun 20, 2012 10:45 PM

    There’s an eyewitness account that it wasn’t Hargrove. There’s Hargrove’s denial. There are several documented instances of the NFL spinning and misrepresenting what’s in Hargrove’s official statements. Then there’s the late Friday “leak” to Jason Cole about ledger entries containing bounty payment info that seem bogus when crosschecked against game tape. Oops, we meant a different game. That one didn’t crosscheck either. Then a few days ago there’s word of another bounty entry for a Brandon Jacobs cartoff in 2009. Except there was no cartoff. Jacobs sat out a couple plays. Yet someone supposedly was paid $1000. Where is the media? Parroting whatever the NFL says.

  74. zaggs says: Jun 20, 2012 10:50 PM

    Except it sounds like Hardgrove and not Remi. Did you bother to listen to other clips of them?

  75. silentcount says: Jun 20, 2012 10:59 PM

    Everyone knows you’re not allowed to make jokes on the sidelines during an NFL game. You could accidently say something that might hurt someone’s feelings. That’s a 15 yard personal foul, and then a big suspension 3 years later.

  76. roadbiscuit says: Jun 20, 2012 11:03 PM

    Yeah, I’ve poured over clips. In all honestly I can’t be sure who it is. I’ll take the eyewitness’ word for it along with Hargrove’s denial. Hargrove is not suspended for saying “Give me the money.” So why would he be making an issue of it unless he feels like he’s being smeared? Beyond that, it makes no sense since he wasn’t in on the ankle play. The play he was in on was four plays earlier when he got flagged for a late high hit that didn’t injure Favre.

  77. tebowsafraud says: Jun 20, 2012 11:03 PM

    winner2277–

    IF you have me on video in the bank at the time of the robbery AND find my fingerprints on the note handed to the teller in the theft AND find in my bedroom closet large stacks of hundreds wrapped with a currency strap with the same name of the bank that was just robbed feel free to assume I did it. I would.

    And the evidence that many Saints (players, coaches, and mgmt) were in an active BOUNTY program is just as strong.

    If the mastermind behind the whole program Gregg Williams admits it existed (and he has) what else do you need? Sean Payton to admit it? OK—he has ! Oh–you want the GM to also admit it? We got that one also. Those 3 “guilty” pleas should silence all but the thickest of skulls.

  78. shlort says: Jun 20, 2012 11:16 PM

    Seems aweful funny that Hrgroves suspension was based on this very same evidence being so damning. If it turns out that Hargrove didnt say anything like tat, and thee media manipulated the tapes, then what? Will Hargrove still be suspended 8 games? what if he is completely innocent of any wrong doing?

    Leave it to thee media to make a lot more out of this than there actually is. I have been saying all along.. though I dont think it is ok for players to intentionally hurt other players, where is the proof? All anyonee has shown so far iss a bunch of cloudy looking evidence that wouldnt even get a case into a courtroom.

  79. atwatercrushesokoye says: Jun 20, 2012 11:20 PM

    How can anyone pass themselves off as “fair and rational” when their screen name eyeh8goodell?

  80. gingerkid2000 says: Jun 20, 2012 11:26 PM

    Guess what Florio! The Players are using the media to try and make themselves look innocent! Not that you would ever fall for that now would you! By the way how much is Ginsburg & the NFLPA paying to write your obviously bias articles?

  81. gbmickey says: Jun 20, 2012 11:31 PM

    Hey winner or should I say whiner maybe it was the concession worker yelling to a fan for his beer money. Even a former saint player said he knows who said it. If it was anyone other than a player he would have been more than happy I’m sure to say that yet he says if he has to testify he will say. This again points to a logical conclusion it was said by a player which also points to a bounty.

    By the way I see you avoided the question about Williams audio. Was that doctored? Was his admittance fabricated? How about peytons and loomis?

    You as well as others bite on the sensationalism florio uses to keep up the controversy and the readership but like it or not there has been plenty of evidence as well as confessions that no matter how much you complain the suspensions will be upheld.

    For anyone that says I’m a hater don’t forget hargrove is on green bay but I am not nieve enough to believe this wasn’t going on.

  82. rickyck45 says: Jun 21, 2012 12:37 AM

    The NFL is just releasing the bare minimum here. If push comes to shove they will probably just fold their hand so that they can maintain integrity with the person or person who provided the information. This is why the players are pushing so hard because this is their only chance to beat the suspensions. The media is also pushing hard in hopes of finding out who is providing the commissioner with the information. Williams himself told the commissioner what took place…maybe he is the smoking gun. Maybe he provided the commissioner with a ledger describing payouts. After all he probably could write them off as expenses on his taxes. Funny how William’s power point had Dog the Bounty Hunter on it. Hmmm wonder what that was all about…inspiration to point pepper ball guns and arrest bad guys. HA! Move on. Its none of our business!

  83. whodatgirl1 says: Jun 21, 2012 12:52 AM

    I’m surprised no one has questioned why anybody would be asking Bobby McCray for bounty money.

    The NFL has said all along that Gregg Williams was the one who distributed the money AFTER THE GAMES. McCray wasn’t a captain and in charge of handling the money, as the NFL has said.

    So why would anybody be asking him at that very moment for bounty money–it doesn’t fit in with the NFL’s theory.

    It does however, fit in with a possible bet that two friends had as to whether or not Grandpa Favre–after being beaten up in his previous week’s game that he was already black and blue–would last through the game.

    “Hey Bobby, how much do you want to bet the this 40 year-old doesn’t last through the game?”

    “100 bucks sound fair?”

    “Agreed.”

  84. yaryers says: Jun 21, 2012 1:11 AM

    Will Smith says “Who got him?”

    Hargrove says “Bobby”

    Ayodele says “Give me my money!”

    Smith was asking, they both heard, and they both answered. Bobby got him low, Ayodele got him high.

    Why is it that the word “Bobby” is so difficult to hear, but “Give me my money” is so loud and clear? It’s because Ayodele was closer to the camera, and presumably where the mic is too.

  85. yaryers says: Jun 21, 2012 1:22 AM

    Upon closer review, it sounds like Ayodele is saying “I did! Give me my money!” at the same time Hargorve may or may not be saying “Bobby.” Both answers in response to Smith asking “Who got him?”

  86. thepragmaticcowboy says: Jun 21, 2012 1:28 AM

    @johnnyappleseed44

    I think your description of what was said and who said it makes much more sense than what the NFL is claiming. It just goes to show you how flimsy this evidence is. Put subtitles under anything and people will believe that is what they are hearing.

    I personally think the words were “Gimme my monkey.” Maybe Steve Young was on the sideline.

  87. mdd913 says: Jun 21, 2012 1:39 AM

    pftcensorssuck says: Jun 20, 2012 10:35 PM

    The point that so many of you are missing is this:

    It doesn’t matter WHOSE voice that is saying “give me my money!”……

    What DOES matter is that ANYONE said “Give me my money!”

    SOMEONE got paid in that locker room, and that in itself PROVES Bountygate is REAL.

    ‘Nuff said.

    The Saints can all shut the hell up now.

    ————————————————————–

    The point, genius, is that if the NFL would deliberately mislead people into believing that was Hargrove speaking (and it pretty clearly was not) then we don’t know how many other dozens of things they’ve been lying about all this time.

    People have poked giant holes in just about every piece of “evidence” the league has produced, from written statements that the league misrepresented, to the supposed “ledgers” didn’t match up to any injuries, the fact that one of the supposed “contributors” to the pool WAS ON INJURED RESERVE AND WAS NOT EVEN WITH THE TEAM.

    Now, why don’t you go “shut the hell up now.”

  88. TheJStyles says: Jun 21, 2012 2:17 AM

    I just wanna watch Football games…

  89. thebiglabreeski says: Jun 21, 2012 2:28 AM

    I’ve never heard of any other player in a contract year utter these same words, before. This couldn’t have been one of the players saying this in reference to his potential future with the team. That would be a ludicrous explanation.

  90. stanklepoot says: Jun 21, 2012 4:13 AM

    sinnermike says: Jun 20, 2012 6:45 PM

    This whole thing is going to blow up real soon. I think the government is going to step in because this is such a visual disaster. The other option is that the players attempt to take their grievance to court. The last and least probable option is that the players band together and protest. Just a thought because this is getting uglier every day.
    ___________________________________
    Actually, if you paid closer attention to the news, Sen. Durbin has CANCELLED his plans to hold hearings investigating the “bounty culture” because of the way Goodell brought down the hammer. Durbin is still going to gather some info to get a better idea about what is going on, but for now we’ve avoided another Congressional investigation similar to the MLB steroids investigation.

    As for the players taking this to court, good luck with that. This is an internal disciplinary action taken by a company that falls within the agreed upon process they negotiated in a collective bargaining agreement with the players’ union. In other words, the players pretty much sold their souls when it comes to disciplinary procedure in order to get a cba signed and get back to work. There’s nothing for the courts or the NLRB to rule on here.

    Vilma’s defamation civil suit is the desperate act of a man confronted with real possibility that his career may be coming to an end. Even if you don’t believe that the league’s evidence PROVES Vilma was a part of a bounty program, it certainly makes the belief that he was reasonable. For Vilma to win the case, he needs to show that Goodell knew he was innocent and intentionally lied specifically to hurt him. Maybe Vilma thinks that by filing his case in New Orleans he’ll end up with a judge who will ignore the law and simply side with a Saints player over the commissioner. I wouldn’t pin too many hopes on that idea. The other idea is that the case was simply a means of forcing the league to turn over a copy of everything it had. Even if that works, so what? The league has already ruled on the case, and the league is hearing the appeal. Goodell already has access to all the evidence, and he clearly thinks it’s sufficient. So, what’s any of this going to accomplish? Sure, if Vilma did get a copy of everything, he could release targeted pieces of it bit by bit and try to make it look questionable, but will dragging that out and constantly whining to the media do anything to help him? I mean, he’s still going to need to be reinstated by the league if he wants to have any chance of continuing his career. Mess with the decision makers too much, and he could find a lot of little roadblocks to returning along the way.

  91. saintsfan26 says: Jun 21, 2012 4:39 AM

    Why would Bobby pay anybody if he made the tackle?

  92. stanklepoot says: Jun 21, 2012 4:40 AM

    whoisthatteam says: Jun 20, 2012 7:05 PM

    How do you go from someone saying “give me my money” to “their must be a bounty”?

    These players get large bonuses for winning Championship Games.

    How do we know whoever was talking wasn’t referring to the game bonus after hearing favre wasn’t coming back in?
    _________________________________
    Well, let me see. The have ledger sheets showing dollar amounts tagged with phrases like QB out linked to that game. They have Vitt on tape saying he thinks Favre’s leg might be broken, and after that statement someone says give me my money. Not that big of a leap really.

    Oh, and the players get a set amount for playing in playoff games. The bonus they get for winning is that they get to play in the next round of games and get another check. So, your alternative explanation for the statement doesn’t really fit.

    Finally, I have to agree with an earlier poster. If it’s not Hargrove, why the heck did he wait so long to say something? This is like the Vilma bit all over again. This may be new footage, but there was already footage where the comment could be heard out there, and Hargrove has been the one linked to that comment for quite some time now. Why didn’t he go to the media the first time his name was linked to that comment and tell them they got it wrong and challenge them to compare the audio to his vocal patterns? If he’s telling the truth, it would have ended that part of it right there. Why keep quiet throughout the investigation, announcement of the findings and punishments, various attempts to remove Goodell from hearing the appeals, and the appeals process itself? So many people want to point out the inconsistencies they think they see in the league’s investigation, but they completely ignore the inconsistencies in the players’ attempts to defend themselves. It’s weird. I have no dog in this hunt, and I normally find myself sympathetic to the players, but this case just reminds me of an old school Eddie Murphy comedy bit. The “it wasn’t me” defense, where the fictional cheating boyfriend asks his girlfriend who just walked in on him with another woman “who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”

  93. kevinjonheller says: Jun 21, 2012 5:41 AM

    What I would have given, when I was a criminal-defence attorney in Los Angeles, to have Florio on one of my juries! None of my clients would ever have been convicted. In his hands, “proof beyond a reasonable doubt” (which is, of course, not even required in an internal administrative hearing) becomes “proof to an absolute, total, complete certainty such that no skeptic can point to anything that might call said proof into question.”

  94. kevinjonheller says: Jun 21, 2012 5:43 AM

    Florio: sure, he said “Bobby” — but (cue scary music) we don’t see him say “give me my money”… And he passionate denies saying it — which is clearly conclusive, because no guilty person has ever passionately denied their guilt in the long history of American criminal law.

  95. bigdicebuddha says: Jun 21, 2012 7:10 AM

    Okay conspiracy theorists, can anybody give one legit reason why the NFL just suddenly woke up one morning, and decided to frame the Saints and drag that entire organization, including NFL darling Drew Brees, through the mud?

    You think they did it just to get kicks? I admit that the NFL has botched this investigation, but let’s also remember that had the Saints stopped doing this garbage when they were told to two years ago, this wouldn’t even be happening.

    I don’t hear Greg Williams or Sean Payton saying the bounty program didn’t exist.

    So again, the NFL may have overvalued their so called evidence of this program, but the program existed. Of that, I’m sure.

  96. robf2010 says: Jun 21, 2012 7:21 AM

    Did anyone consider that it might have just been a joke? Did someone on the NFL’s all star team of investigators actually think whoever is saying “Pay me my money” was serious? Did someone think that Bobby McCray had the money? During a game? Were they going to conduct an exchange of money on the Saints sidelines with 60 million people watching? Does anyone think about these things before they release it to the public as serious evidence?

  97. roadbiscuit says: Jun 21, 2012 7:57 AM

    >If it’s not Hargrove, why the heck did he wait so long to say something?

    Because the NFL didn’t explicitly claim it was him till very recently. Back in March the official description was “unidentified voice”.

  98. roadbiscuit says: Jun 21, 2012 8:03 AM

    Hargrove has played it low key up till the past couple weeks. That just happens to coincide with the NFL’s spin campaign that started with the leak to Jason Cole.

  99. sj39 says: Jun 21, 2012 9:03 AM

    Guilty and Goodall will not “un-suspend” anyone, can we please move on now.

  100. kingfish4242 says: Jun 21, 2012 9:24 AM

    sinnermike says:
    Jun 20, 2012 6:45 PM
    This whole thing is going to blow up real soon. I think the government is going to step in because this is such a visual disaster.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    . If they keep fighting their EARNED punishment, I hope The Rog turns them over to authorities so Johnny Law can go after them next!

    Your NFL suspensions are lifted fellas…. but instead of the year a 8 game suspensions, You will be spending YEARS behind bars for attempting harm and or life on other players. Not only the ones that participated in the grotesque acts, but those that knew about them as well. Yes, that means you Mr. All and Mighty Brew Drees.

    ———————————————–

    When was the last time congress stepped in and actually made anything better? I’m thinking child labor laws that stopped sweat shops from abusing children during the roaring 20’s,but that’s about it. Anything else they get involved in makes matters ten times worse.

    @Jessie- If you think Law enforcement is going to get involved,keep dreaming Bro! It ain’t gonna happen.

  101. ratedgap says: Jun 21, 2012 9:25 AM

    Would all the naysayers with the understanding of a three year old(and I mean no offense to three year olds) who keep saying ANYONE admitted to a bounty program please go back to finger painting. NO ONE admitted to a bounty program, not even Gregg williams and his NFL written apology. Not Sean Payton. Not Mickey Loomis. NO ONE. So stop saying it. You just make yourself sound biased and ignorant, and come off as an irrational fan of another team who wants to see the Saints fall so your team has a chance on the field. You’re not interested in justice, or even in the truth. You’re interested in the Saints being punished for totally selfish reasons, or else you wouldn’t continue to blatantly lie about whom admitted to what. FIND ONE ACCOUNT of ANYONE from the Saints admitting to a BOUNTY PROGRAM, not a PAY FOR PERFORMANCE PROGRAM. They are accused of having a BOUNTY PROGRAM. The two terms are not interchangeable. I pray for our failing school systems if the number of lemmings on this forum represent a large number of the population who would follow Goodell off a cliff because of their own selfish desires, and truly start to outnumber those whom are willing to think for themselves and not rush to judgment.

  102. tke743 says: Jun 21, 2012 10:20 AM

    Goodall – $50,000 – Head

    There it is, Goodall was involved, there’s the proof. We need to suspend him. Are they kidding with this “evidence”, a typed up summary of something they refuse to authenticate?

  103. jessethegreat says: Jun 21, 2012 11:53 AM

    @Jesse- If you think Law enforcement is going to get involved,keep dreaming Bro! It ain’t gonna happen.
    ———————————————————–
    I don’t know about the statute of limitations, but all it takes is one of the injured players to press charges. Favre may have settled off into the sunset, but the dude has a serious vengeance bone. The Saints prevented him from riding off into the sunset with a second ring and bringing ultimate vengeance upon his former Packers team. Don’t deny that you could see him pushing it.

    All this would take is ONE of the targeted players to push it. Ever heard of a plea-bargon?

  104. bschesvold says: Jun 22, 2012 3:26 AM

    I’m curious about the standard of proof needed in a case like this. I doubt that it is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Don’t know if it is the level of a civil case which I believe is you think it is over 50% chance they did it. Did the players union simply sign away all players rights giving all authority over to Roger Goodell?

    What’s really scary is people signing away their rights. It’s about a woman who signed a contract to work for a company in Iraq. Apparently when she did, she signed away all her rights to a trial it must be dealt with in arbitration. She was raped, and legally can not prosecute. Here’s the link:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jamie-leigh-jones-claims-iraq-rape-employer-held/story?id=13884264&page=2#.T-QdTHDd4l4

  105. bschesvold says: Jun 22, 2012 3:41 AM

    Stephen Colbert needs to step in and protect these corporations from their employees. Stephen Colbert, Where are you? We need you!!

  106. dirtierwater says: Jun 24, 2012 1:50 PM

    “Hargrove, you are free to go if that’s the only evidence they’ve got”

    Not so fast. I originally reached that same conclusion, as I absolutely agree it was Ayodele who said ‘give me my money’. I have no idea what Hargrove said; I don’t agree with he said ‘Bobby’, nor am I convinced he was winking.

    But, if nothing else, Hargrove is guilty of impeding the investigation, which he admitted to in his declaration months back. If that’s all he did though, I don’t agree with the length of his 8 game suspension. Which does beg the question, what kind of dickhead is Ayodele if he possibly could reduce that suspension, but remains quiet?

  107. cornersss says: Jun 26, 2012 12:57 PM

    If the players and coaches lied the first time about any of it , why do people believe them now?

    It took the NFL interviewing people twice over years to finally get the truth to come out. First time they all denied it.2nd time greg williams was jettisoned after finally admitting to it.

    Do people really believe williams would admit to it if he didn’t install it for the team?

  108. barrywhodat says: Aug 19, 2012 9:48 PM

    What I would like to know is how all these SAINTS haters know so much when the players themselves haven’t been able to get any of the so called evidence from goodell, so how they hell do you make all these claims like you have first hand knowledge? A prime example is the comments by jessethegreat, what a misnomer, jessethegreat are you great in your small little mind, so how do you know the SAINTS have been lying for two years, were you there? That’s what I thought, so you don’t think goodell would lie, and what makes you believe that he wouldn’t lie if he was looking for scapegoats so when he’s grilled on the witness stand for the nfl neglecting the health of the players who’s made him and the owners rich beyond their wildest dreams, he can say we tried to clean this up but there were these renegade players who were making up their own rules, and were trying to hurt innocent players. So jessethegreat if anyone is going to do jail time it’s going to be goodell for lying to a Federal Judge, so before you make these ignorant statement, stop and think about what your saying, then keep your mouth shut because its obvious you don’t know what the hell your talking about. WHO DAT!!! FREE SEAN – PEYTON FREE JV#51

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