Comments on: Vilma complaint outlines all alleged flaws in bounty case

By: blogspotsblog

blogspotsblog — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:34:37 +0000

@flaccotoboldin
Of course he is not completley innocint. He was still a part of a pay for performance system that was against league rules, but did not rise to the level that the commish is saying that it did. And also, the evidince against him DOES matter. If he did not do anything, then there would be no proof of him doing it, AND THERE IS NO PROOF AGAINST HIM. And he did ask to meet with goodell to discuss the evidence and goodell is the one who declined and there is proof of that. Vilma said that he would meet with him and speak with him if they would be discussing the evidence because he had already told “his side of the story” so at this point he wanted goodell to supply the evince so that the league, vilma and ginsbergh could discuss it and show that vilma was clean in this situation. the league declined to previde the evidnece so vilma declined to meet. What else could vilma have said besides “I didnt do it”. He and his lawyer have constantly said that vilma did not do what they said he did and the whole team is saying that there was no bounty on brett favre or anyone else. And the note that you mentioned, allow me to share some things with you. The note contained something called a minny game. In it, it said Vilma 10000-Qb. Joe Vitts name said Vitt 5000-QB out. So why is it that vitts name says qb out and vilmas only says qb. Also Charles Grants name said Grant 10000-QB. But his name was not brought up and the league itself said that they did not use this against joe vitt. And the people who the league said coraborated that vilma did have said that they did no did no such thing. Williams and Orenstien said that they never coraborated this accusation. And vitt just came out and said that it straight up did not happen and he and other players have said this since day one. So that means that the note that everyone is talking about was proven to be inaccurate and it is only logical to conclude that it was created long after the 2009 title game. After all why was vilma accused of putting up money for this and not the other guys? So in other words, Goodell publicly accused vilma based off of hearsay. And the other guys were not even notified that they had even been accused. So it is possible that he may have offered it as a joke and whoever snitched mentioned it knowing completley that it would damage vilma. When vilma said that he never intended to pay but did not deny that he offered. Logicaly it is possible that it might have been a joke just to get the guys hyped up. Also it has been said that the money was not even Vilmas but it was williams’s money and that vilma gave it right back to him. Williams suspension says that he is not to talk to the media or other players about the investigation and the league denied the players request to have him present at the appeals. The league then lies and says that they were allowed. But they did not tell them this information until after the fact. So the league basically withheld information about being able to contact witnesses. But then again what else could the witnesses say besides ” He didnt do it” or “they didnt do it”. That is what they have been saying since DAY ONE. And it has not changed anything so what good would it have done in reality. Even Vitt said that the league misrepresented what he and the other coaches said in the interviews that they had with the league. It has also been revealed that the league did not provide any notes from the interviews with any of the coaches. Not to mention that the NFLPA was not allowed to be in the interviews, and neither were the players. And the coaches have ALL said that the league misrepresented the information that they gave them and in other words put words in their mouth. the fact that the coaches and the league were the only ones in the interviews and there were no sound bites or tapes from those interviews, or notes from the interviews provided as evidence shows that the league spun the information and twisted and distored the things that were said in the dierection that the NFL wanted it to go. In other words it adds to the accusation that the league shaped the info into what THEY wanted it to look and sound like and have not provided proof of conformation or orginal documents or witnesses. the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. and to date, the league has not shown any proof guilt on ANY of the players adn the only thing on williams is an audio in which playeres said that it was just “Greggs language” and other than the comment about crabtrees acl (which no one went for) there was nothing wrong with it. Only those who never played football dont understand what he said. Also at the end of the FULL audio. His says “dont hurt the team and dont go over the line”. And with greggs apology and statments, THEY WERE WRITTEN FOR HIM BY THE NFL AND THEY THREW HIS ORIGINAL STATMENTS AND INTERVIEWS OUT. So in conclussion, it is the nfl who is acting improper. they have no proof of guilt but are requiring players to provide proof of innocence, which is impossible. If there is nothing to show guilt, then that is evidence of innocence right there. And like i said, what else can they say besides “I didnt do it”. It would go like this. Goodell: This says that you did this. Vilma: that information is false. Goodell: So did you do it. Vilma: no, that is why there is nothing to prove that I am guilty, because i am not guilty. Goodell: well give me something to prove you innocence. Vilma: How about the fact that there is nothing other than hearsay to say I am guilty and the fact that the note was created AFTER the nfccg. Goodell: Well I uphold the suspension because i dont want to admit I am wrong. Vilma: but i didnt do it. Goodell: well I said you did so there. Goodell’s ego is to big to admit he was wrong. He invited the players in hopes that accept a lesser penalty so that he would still come out as the good guy. But no matter how much they say or who says they are innocent, roger is too ignorant and egotistical to realize that he screwed up big time. If he had done this to a New york team, it would not have been like this because the new york media would not let goodell get away with convicting with BS evidence that showed no proof of guilt. they would eat him alive. And befor you say the players agreed to this. They agreed to let him have jurisdiction over OFF FIELD issues where there was CLEAR proof of guilt (i.e. Vick, Pacman, Roethlesberger, suh, donte stallworth, nick fiarly etc.). they trusted him to not act like an egotistical, vindictive, power-hungry dictator which he cleary is acting like. they did not think that he would ABUSE his authority. so get that right. But unfortunatly only the steelers saw this coming. but to put it in perspective, it is legal in some countries to beat women, but do you think that they should just beat up every girl that they see? Just because you have the power to be unfair, does not mean that it is right, just look at adolf hitler. GOODELL MUST GO. He is too egotistical,vindictive, greedy and selfish to be impartial.

By: savannahrose44

savannahrose44 — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:26:21 +0000

A lot of speculation in this lawsuit on the part of Vilma.

By: bobzilla1001

bobzilla1001 — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:15:42 +0000

Evidently, the Steelers were the only team in the league that actually read the CBA before its ratification. The Steelers voted against it. No other team did. They opposed Goodell’s complete control and arrogant power. No other team gave that any thought.
While Goodell goes about destroying the league, the players and owners only have themsleves to blame. They are allowing this to happen.
Goodell must go!!!!

By: silentcount

silentcount — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 04:06:52 +0000

Here’s a plan to solve all this mess. Have referees on the field watching the players’ every move. If they make an illegal hit, then throw a flag and give their team a penalty in yardage. Oh wait, they’ve already had that system and it works fine. So why is Goodell throwing flags now for something from 3 years ago that he can’t prove really happened? Doesn’t he realize that Vilma has only had a total of 3 penalties in THREE YEARS! Yeah, like he’s really trying to intentionally injure people with a clean record like that. Case closed!

By: renhoekk2

renhoekk2 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:21:27 +0000

I’m sure when the NFLPA agreed to let Goodell keep his all encompassing power it didn’t imagine this type of scenario. Most “player discipline” situations are for plays on the field or criminal activity where there is a police report filed. It’s hard to argue against an illegal hit when there is video evidence showing you doing it from about five different camera angles. But when accusations are being levied for something like a bounty being offered and there is little actual evidence being offered to back it up, and what little there is offered is very weak at best, then they have every right to pursue any avenue they wish to get a fair hearing. Vilma knew his meeting with Goodell would be a one sided hoax of an appeal process so why bother.

Goodell: Here is the evidence we gathered. What do you have to say?

Vilma:None of that is true.

Goodell:Sorry. Suspension upheld. Thanks for coming.

I know it is not a court of law but there is a reason why the defense team in a court case gets to see ALL of the evidence the prosecution has gathered and also why they get to cross examine any witnesses giving testimony. If the Commissioner is so sure they have a solid case against Vilma and the Saints let’s see all of the evidence and let’s hear from the witnesses. I know under the rules of the CBA they don’t have to do any of that, but if they have nothing to hide or fear they should be more than willing to do it.

By: seb18712188

seb18712188 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:10:00 +0000

If Vilma is successful in getting this case into a court of law. As it appears he wants to do and having a judge look at it. Doesn’t this also open up this case to being investigated by the federal government and possibly more charges being filed against the saints such as conspiracy to commit bodily harm?

Which if proven could put Vilma in company in a lot more hot water then just missing an NFL season?

Could this end up putting guys in Jail?

By: paychrisjohnson28

paychrisjohnson28 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:18:55 +0000

The bounty suspensions are in correlation of the concussion lawsuits that the NFL is trying to do all they can to protect players the NFL is trying to prove this by making a statement by the bounty suspensions. Doesnt that make sense ?

By: paychrisjohnson28

paychrisjohnson28 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:09:00 +0000

Goodell = Control Freak. If a team wants to make any changes or move or anything like that he states in each memo that he has the final say and they must consult him and he must give his approval and he suspends players that have not been arrested but due to what he perceives is conduct detrimental to the NFL the league. When the NFL has members of their Hall of Fame who were known for the head slap (Deacon Jones) and for taking players heads off with clothes line tackles ripping their heads off and now Goodell is possibly ruining players careers for “bounties” that no player who had a supposed bounty on them even will admit the care about because “they are tough football players!” they say. Yes it was a different era, but teams for years had unspoken bounties, an example of this is Buddy Ryan was accused of bounties when he was coach of the Eagles and nothing was done to him or any player! Come on man!

By: paychrisjohnson28

paychrisjohnson28 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:55:50 +0000

To the guy who said does a referee have to hear an appeal after he throws a flag? Thats apples and oranges two different things when you compare that to btw bounty allegations, because we are talking about not only taking millions or thousands of dollars from careers of coaches and athletes due to suspensions…you are talking about ruining reputations of players which could ruin Vilma’s and other players careers…because look at T.O., McNabb or Culpepper who didn’t do anything like this and their reputations are so bad they can’t even get a try out with an NFL team to come back after productive careers, what do you think teams will want to sign Vilma or employ Greg Williams as a coach after this ? No way, their reputations are going to be tainted and this will follow each player and coach that got suspended. That is why if I was in their position I would fight it! Do you think Vilma, Fujita and Hargrove act innocent? I believe the amount of punishment is I justified, it will be lessened or Goodell will go down for all this in time…commissioner Taglibeau or Rozelle would not do what Goodell would in this case would they ?!

By: rhodeislandpatriotsfan

rhodeislandpatriotsfan — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:55:48 +0000

How is the “failure” by the appeal hearing officer, Roger Goodell, to rule “by Monday June 25, 2012” actionable? The 2011 NFL CBA, Article 46, Section 2(d), which is controlling here, simply states that the hearing officer is required to provide a written decision, “As soon as PRACTICABLE (emphasis added) following the conclusion of the hearing… .” Since there is no specific/explicit time frame contemplated, how can one argue that “Monday June 25, 2012” is the deadline for issuing the ruling?

By: northlawhodat

northlawhodat — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:51:47 +0000

The commish will fall. All the haters can hate all they want. Jonathon Vilma will win this one. And when he gets the suspension lifted and the opponent across the line of scrimage see’s #51 staring them down…………… Oh yeah baby! Can’t wait!

By: qdog112

qdog112 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:45:55 +0000

Mr. Goodell has been ill-served by his legal team. The slipshod nature of this whole fiasco ,can be placed at the feet of lead clown and chief legal counselor, Jeff Pash.

If you recall, he’s the same guy who filed up the CBA negotiations and was asked to leave the room. No progress happened until he did.

By: jrmbadger

jrmbadger — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:37:46 +0000

“truthfactory says:
Jul 1, 2012 11:39 PM
At the end of the day, Vilma had his chance to defend himself as was agreed in the CBA and he turned it down.”

=======================
I think that’s partly his problem. Assuming the allegations in the complaint are true, Vilma didn’t have a fair shot to defend himself. Vilma’s claims are that he couldn’t defend himself because the NFL deliberately concealed evidence by refusing to make it available, by mischaracterizing the evidence they had available, by telling witnesses to keep quiet, and by dumping it on the players at the last minute. Finally, he’s also claiming that Goodell couldn’t be neutral given insistence on trying this case in the media.

If Vilma’s accusations are true, its a huge black eye for the league. So bad, that you’d think Goodell’s job would be in jeopardy.

I admit that I was one of the individuals who initially thought that the Saints were guilty and should just shut up and take their punishments. However, after hearing about the NFL’s “evidence” – I have serious doubts.

By: rajbais

rajbais — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:31:28 +0000

Ben Roethlisberger had a 6-game suspension reduced to 4 when we don’t know what it was that Goodell defined as good “service for the community”!!!

For that to happen before suspending players in the manner he’s doing it in us unfair to the Saints.

Ben is a QB and played for a team that was meant and needs to look good in prime time. I’m surprised there’s no speculation on this.

By: mjkelly77

mjkelly77 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:24:44 +0000

Vilma complaint outlines all aleged flaws in bounty case
_________________

I thought Vilma and the NFLPA asserts that there are “alleged” flaws?

By: GG Eden

GG Eden — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 12:48:07 +0000

The point people are missing is that there was no bounty going on. It was all made up by the disgruntled whistleblower. Thus, Goodell went in blindly and stupidly believing it all. What’s just as bad is that the whistleblower who made it all up, ended up admitting to Goodell it was all made up, recanting his claims, but Goodell was too deeply entrenched in it by then to back out. He got suckered into it, so to speak, bought it hook line and sinker, and now refuses to admit he erred etc.

By: bigpara

bigpara — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 12:15:41 +0000

NFL have no need to show the evidence, the evidence is already in that Viking-Saints playoff game, they were giving cheap shots to Brett all game. They have Williams on tape and that all the proof they need. If Vilma is found guilty, I hope criminal charges are pressed against him.

By: hpeters77

hpeters77 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 12:11:46 +0000

Beaux villa forget all these hater comments and do your thing the people on here still watch independence day and think aliens are real. You know more than they do and they won’t believe it even if they heard the truth

By: bigpara

bigpara — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 12:01:13 +0000

julyeast says:
Jul 2, 2012 4:28 AM
do not understand how any Saints player or coach can be suspended for getting incentive TO HIT A PLAYER HARD, when NOT ONE Patriot player or coach got suspended for cheating.
______________________________________
Cheating doesn’t put anyone in the hospital. Bounties to hurt someone could end careers.

By: gingerkid2000

gingerkid2000 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:22:38 +0000

Vilma will have to prove these allegations are true. He will also have to be reminded that some of these allegations contradict with things like the players & NFLPA Twitter & Facebook feeds. Goodell may be jerk but he’s no cretin. Everyone expected this to go to court so Vilma had better have strong evidence to back up his claims. I’m guessing Goodell, who is an attorney is more than prepared to go head to head with any one of these guys.

By: whodatsaybaby

whodatsaybaby — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:17:52 +0000

And you thought Roger Goddell got ”BOO’ED” pretty bad at this years draft. Wait untill next year. Plus it’s good to know I’ve been waiting for Roger to fall out his KINGS chair all this time, and that time seems to be getting closer.

By: eagleswin

eagleswin — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:51:52 +0000

Nuisance suit.

I wonder if Peter Ginsberg will try to oust the judge from the case when this goes against him (like he did in FLA). That is why he got fined nearly $400k and and suspended for 5 years.

In affirming Briskman’s decision, the appeals panel found that Ginsberg’s conduct was “egregious” and included overzealous litigation tactics and factual inaccuracies. The panel also found that he demonstrated disrespectful behavior and bad faith.

That doesn’t sound like the Ginsberg that’s representing Vilma does it? Maybe it does.

By: rbell2123

rbell2123 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:38:52 +0000

Can’t wait for training camp. so tired of reading about the Saints. Like a bad dream i wish Saints would just go away

By: pcoisma

pcoisma — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 10:20:22 +0000

Demaurice Smith is the one that the players should be suing for Miss-Representation. He is the man the wanted this and recommended this new CBA to the players. He is also a Lawyer! He knew what was possibly going to happen.

The only players seem to be the Steelers who did not follow this Pied Piper of Hamlin. Unfortunately for them they also got sucked into it now.

This from a Rams fan that has to watch Jeff fisher try to avoid all question about his buddy Williams.

By: mwindle1973

mwindle1973 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 09:00:14 +0000

This is a pretty weak suit. It’s clearly an attempt to just get an injunction on the suspension and then stall so Vilma can play the season or part of it. It won’t work. The NFL will file for summary judgement, and I think there is a great chance the case will be summarily dismissed. There is very little substance to any of these allegations. They don’t prove anything in particular. They just try to present criminal court level reasonable doubt into the NFLs investigation, conclusions and subsequent suspension. That won’t work in a civil court. The honus is on Ginsberg to reasonably demonstrate that Vilma wasn’t involved and also explain an “alternative reality” to the NFL’s version of events. Such as the notes showing Vilma paid 10k for a Favre bounty. They must explain what exactly that notation is if it isn’t proof of his involvement. And that will be just one of many things they will need to show. This is a desperate case!

By: julyeast

julyeast — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 08:28:50 +0000

do not understand how any Saints player or coach can be suspended for getting incentive TO HIT A PLAYER HARD, when NOT ONE Patriot player or coach got suspended for cheating.

By: northeastkiller

northeastkiller — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:53:59 +0000

It’s nice to know truthfactory thinks it’s reasonable to walk blind into a hearing with no idea of what “evidence” is against you, but non-crazy people might say being able to plan a defense isn’t proof of guilt.

By: roadbiscuit

roadbiscuit — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:26 +0000

This doesn’t outline quite all but this is a good start. Seeing all with a little more detail would be helpful.

By: greggfletch1

greggfletch1 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:39:11 +0000

When this Nation become a socialist state. THE PLAYERS ACCEPTED THE CBA. Which by the way unions have way to much power in this country. Stop being a pizzy and take you meds, you elected him, you gave him the power, shut your whiny arse million dollar paying pssy mouth and deal with it.

By: denverscott

denverscott — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:28:22 +0000

Did I say WAAAAHHHHHHH. Shaved jungle cats? Puss#@$s