Skip to content

League backs off view that Hargrove said “give me my money”

Anthony Hargrove AP

In the end, it apparently didn’t matter who said “give me my money” in the notorious 2009 NFC title game sideline video.

The eight-page, single-spaced letter sent Tuesday by Commissioner Roger Goodell to the four players suspended for involvement in the Saints alleged bounty scandal indicates that Goodell made his decision without accepting as true and accurate the league’s insistence that Packers defensive end Anthony Hargrove uttered the four key words at issue.  (The letter, which the league didn’t release publicly on Tuesday, was attached as an exhibit to Goodell’s motion to dismiss Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma’s defamation lawsuit.)

“For purposes of addressing Mr. Hargrove’s appeal,” Goodell writes, “I need not resolve the issue of who made the statement.  Instead, I am prepared to assume — as he apparently stated publicly — that he did not make it.  But that statement is relevant because, regardless of which player said it, it corroborates other evidence that there was an incentive in place for knocking Mr. Favre out of the game and that the members of the Saints defense, including Mr. Hargrove, were well aware of that fact.  The identity of the player who made the statement was immaterial to my decision on your appears and did not affect the level of discipline imposed on Mr. Hargrove.”

It’s a well-crafted paragraph, which explains in logical, commonsensical fashion the potential import of the words plainly audible on the video on question.  Unless someone off camera was demanding change from a hot-dog vendor adept at sleight of hand, the comments suggest the existence of a bounty on Brett Favre.

Still, Goodell’s abandonment of an allegation on which the league office previously was strident invites questions regarding the overall quality of the investigation.  If, put simply, Goodell isn’t willing to stand firmly behind a conclusion about which former prosecutor Mary Jo White, who presented the league’s case at the appeal hearing, was adamant, what other flaws may be lurking in the evidence that wasn’t disclosed?

I’ll have more information and analysis of other topics raised in the letter upholding the suspensions as the evening unfolds, including the evidence that wasn’t disclosed and the players’ strategic decision to introduce no evidence at all.   Though these topics may put some of you to sleep, an effort to hit all of them in one blurb definitely would.

Permalink 89 Comments Feed for comments Latest Stories in: Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, New Orleans Saints, Rumor Mill, Top Stories
89 Responses to “League backs off view that Hargrove said “give me my money””
  1. radbob1 says: Jul 5, 2012 8:47 PM

    Mary Jo White’s opinion on the evidence became worthless when she said you could see Hargrove’s lips move.

  2. santolonius says: Jul 5, 2012 8:47 PM

    another possible explanation for the phrase “give me my money” could be that that is just the way excited ball players talk on the sideline when something important happens in a game. in the same way that a person exclaiming “how bout them apples” could say such a phrase with absolutely no apples nearby. if that line of reasoning were accepted the phrase would be evidence of nothing but an excited man.

  3. calv23 says: Jul 5, 2012 8:47 PM

    Why couldn’t “my money” refer to a payout for a sack? If the Saints were paying out for big plays as they admitted, why wouldn’t a sack of Favre in the NFCCG be worth money? Or as many have said, it could have referred to the bonus players received for winning the game and advancing to the Super Bowl.

    Also, there was no flag on the play in question that was thought to have knocked Favre out of the game. So technically, that would qualify as a solid shot sending a player to the sidelines–which every football fan is going to be screaming for their team to do in a couple of months. I know it’s been shown on ESPN more than “The Catch”, but the high/low hit wasn’t thought to have been that savage at the time, especially since it didn’t draw a flag.

    I know these might be less plausible than a “bounty” on Favre, but is it enough to ruin a bunch of people, over? Especially Hargrove, who battled drug addiction and mental illness and became a great success story of that season–is it worth smearing him over such shoddy evidence? The NFL’s pattern of behavior has painted quite a disturbing “mosaic.”

  4. skoobyfl says: Jul 5, 2012 8:50 PM

    You want flaws in the logic?? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  5. packerfaninsandiego says: Jul 5, 2012 8:51 PM

    Can their be a recall to get rid of Goodell? I realize the owners are paying him, but this commisioner is a frickin joke

  6. mike5011ad says: Jul 5, 2012 8:52 PM

    I know most people have made up their minds either way, but this is getting a little interesting to me. If this drags through courts and unseemly things are found out about how the NFL does business, I wonder if this could lead to Goodell being ousted. Stranger things have happened…

  7. brenenostler says: Jul 5, 2012 8:54 PM

    Well someone deserves to be punished for it. Besides, if it wasn’t Hargrove, whoever said it probably would have confessed by now.

  8. geauxmez says: Jul 5, 2012 8:57 PM

    but if he didnt say it… why is he suspended?

  9. whoisthatteam says: Jul 5, 2012 8:58 PM

    So without knowing who actually said it, he ASSUMES that a saints player. And without context he ASSUMES they are talking about a non existent bounty system. Yep, that’ll stand up in court…

  10. mrpowers88 says: Jul 5, 2012 8:58 PM

    Oh wow!!! This must mean all the other evidence the league has is pointless because the players are obviously not at fault for anything!!!!

  11. humptyfratz says: Jul 5, 2012 9:07 PM

    For everyone who thinks ‘denial’ is a river in Egypt, let me introduce you to Roger Goodell.

    This looks worse & worse for the league, except they steadfastly refuse to admit it. Now they concede their rock-solid evidence is wrong, but still supports the conclusions they’re previously reached?

  12. flipx99 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:07 PM

    Goodell’s position makes no sense. Hargrove received an 8 game suspension. Is he now saying that his belief that Hargrove made the statement was not a factor when he decided to give Hargrove the second greatest punishment among the player?

    So, rather than admit he was wrong and adjust the punishment, he simply says, “well, he lied — that’s why is punished.”

    But Vitt, who was also within earshot when the comment was made, was also interviewed in early 2010. Presumably he “lied” as well.

    The coach receieved 6 games. The player 8.

    I am not throwing Goodell under the bus here, just pointing out that if Goodell can’t admit he was wrong here, then you will never see him man up and be fair.

    Goodell is simply going to affirm Goodell, regardless of whether he was wrong in the first place.

  13. moagecu says: Jul 5, 2012 9:10 PM

    Stop taking about “when this goes to court” this isnt going to court. As happened with the previous lawsuits this will be tossed out due to the CBA

  14. bigball1 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:12 PM

    The NFL was pretty proud of this video evidence. To now say that they believe Hargrove, but it really never was important to the fact of his suspension is exactly the hypocrisy that is causing all this distrust. Please! It’s is like the NFL is saying “evidence is not important”. Which really does seem to be the case!

  15. qoojo says: Jul 5, 2012 9:12 PM

    Goodell sounds more and more like a child that won’t change his mind because he doesn’t want to be seen as wrong.

  16. jazz321 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:13 PM

    Roger Goodell will need Perry Mason to get him out of this mess. He should have used Paul Drake instead of Mary Jo White to conduct the investigation. Even Della Street would be an improvement.

  17. brkyle89 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:14 PM

    mrpowers88 says:Jul 5, 2012 8:58 PM

    Oh wow!!! This must mean all the other evidence the league has is pointless because the players are obviously not at fault for anything!!!!

    mrpowers88 – What is “all the other evidence”? The undisclosed evidence the NFL says it has?

  18. sdisme says: Jul 5, 2012 9:16 PM

    How is it evidence? Vilma got an interception on the play.

    What if Vilma said “give me my money”?

  19. phillyfanmatt says: Jul 5, 2012 9:17 PM

    I am not saying Goodell is right and I am not saying the players are right but I have a question to you all as I am curious of what most people say. But what if the players lose in court. Then appeal and lose there. And finally appeal to the supreme court and lose there. Will everyone still continue to say the commish was wrong? I am curious is all.

  20. flipx99 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:17 PM

    Meant to say, not throwing Vitt under the bus.

  21. butthatmakestoomuchsense says: Jul 5, 2012 9:21 PM

    mrpowers88 says: This must mean all the other evidence the league has is pointless because the players are obviously not at fault for anything!!!!

    That’s a very childish response.

    The issue isn’t whether “someone did something”. The real question is, why were a small number of players, specifically including Anthony Hargrove, suspended while others were not, and exactly what did Hargrove do to merit a half-year suspension?

    There’s evidence that Gregg Williams offered bounties. I can see the argument that the Saints, as a team, were responsible for Williams. But individual players? A few of them but not all of them?

  22. r0b1b0y says: Jul 5, 2012 9:27 PM

    I have posted this elsewhere but I have 4 kids and whenever I want them to hurry up and do something I say “earn your paycheck”…….if/when they get it done they say “where’s my money” or “pay me” or “write that check”. This guy is reaching, OMG!

  23. sdisme says: Jul 5, 2012 9:29 PM

    But it is ashamed that we are now down to 1 piece of evidence in one game….. on a “three year bounty program!”

  24. booker1974 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:33 PM

    I’d still like to see clarification for why these four players were singled out for suspensions, Will Smith in particular. The 200 pages of evidence released sure didn’t spell anything out to justify why they were punished and others weren’t.

    The player suspensions should all be overturned. The coaches should be held accountable for any and all violations that occurred, but unless the league can clearly demonstrate that Williams was running a pay to injure system that targeted opposing players as opposed to running a pay for performance system that rewarded good, clean play, occasionally including a play that temporarily forced an opponent off the field, then those suspensions should be drastically reduced.

  25. northeastkiller says: Jul 5, 2012 9:37 PM

    It’s a well-crafted paragraph, which explains in logical, commonsensical fashion the potential import of the words plainly audible on the video on question. Unless someone off camera was demanding change from a hot-dog vendor adept at sleight of hand, the comments suggest the existence of a bounty on Brett Favre.

    ———-

    You’ve been really good on this matter, Florio, but come on. The Saints had a P4P system, the comment could’ve been in reference to the sack or the interception that resulted. Or the SB bonus money.

    In short, the comments suggest one of FOUR different options – bounty, sack, interception, SB bonus.

  26. packhawk04 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:39 PM

    This evidence wont hold up in a court of law, but considering they signed off on the cba giving goodell these powers, itll be very difficult to get the case to a court.

  27. vikingamericann says: Jul 5, 2012 9:41 PM

    Seems Roger has lost perspective. It has been reported that Remi Ayodele said it. He was also the one who hit Farve. So you suspend Hargrove? I challenge anybody to explain this. My guess is Roger rushed to judge the Saints guilty and now does not want to look weak because of his error. So saints pay the price for Roger to save face.

  28. saintsfaninfla says: Jul 5, 2012 9:43 PM

    “It’s a well-crafted paragraph, which explains in logical, commonsensical fashion the potential import of the words plainly audible on the video on question. Unless someone off camera was demanding change from a hot-dog vendor adept at sleight of hand, the comments suggest the existence of a bounty on Brett Favre.”

    Seriously? It could suggest a whole host of things. Irrespective, its becoming clearer how this entire thing went down. Disgruntled Employee whined to NFL with some allegations of a bounty. When this was first made public/leaked, NFL said they were provided some info that was later recanted (which fits in with other things we’ve recently learned) so NFL dropped the issue. The NFL later got other evidence of the alleged bounty. What was this other evidence? Someone noticed this “pay me my money” statement on NFL films? For whatever reason, they decided it was said by Hargrove. (As its been suggested, perhaps they felt he was the most vulnerable and would cave, or perhaps they had a shaky opinion of him already due to his other problems so they let their preconceived notions run wild.) They haul Hargrove in and ask him if he was part of a bounty program. He says no … because he was not. Because they have this tape where they believe he’s said, “pay me money,” they accuse him of lying. At all times, until recently when NFL was proven wrong, they said they punished him because he was involved and he lied about it. Now they are back peddling and saying because the NFL mics picked up someone saying something that sounds like “pay me my money” that was enough to still prove there was a bounty and simply because Hargrove was in the general area, he therefore obviously KNEW about this bounty program and thus lied about it. Assumption upon assumption upon assumption. Even under their current scenario, have they even established that Hargrove (1) heard the statement, (2) if he did hear it, he understood it to mean it was someone asking for payment under the alleged bounty program. What a total crock. And what is the basis of punishment for Smith? Was it also simply because he was apparently in earshot of this statement? If the NFL had to provide us with subtitles, I’d guess that those players … who were focused on quite a bit of things and who were in a very loud stadium … may not have even heard it being said.

    Also, the new evidence would seem to have allegedly been provided to NFL around the same time as the U of M bounty accusations came to light. Could that be a reason the NFL latched on to Vilma, or that it gave someone the idea? Its getting increasingly difficult to follow all the very different versions of the “facts” since it seems to be a moving target by the NFL … which alone should give everyone pause.

  29. sactoking says: Jul 5, 2012 9:43 PM

    So if Goodell is willing to concede that Hargrove did not say “Give me my money” then what was Hargrove suspended for? The league’s whole case against Hargrove was that him saying “Give me my money” was an indication that he was complicit in a bounty system. If he now didn’t say those words then there’s nothing to implicate him over any of the other 50+ players in Saints uniforms that day and he is being punished arbitrarily and capriciously for a non-specific allegation when nobody else on the roster is.

  30. geauxjay says: Jul 5, 2012 9:43 PM

    Mary Jo White said his lips were moving.

    This is the same lawyer whom Goodell told us provided an “impartial review” of the evidence and said the NFL had a case.

    Man, I wish I had her as a prosecutor if I’m ever accused of a crime.

  31. rpiotr01 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:45 PM

    If he admits he has nothing specific on Hargrove, then why is he being punished? If Goodell’s big thing is that the statement makes clear to him that a bounty program exists, why not punish EVERY Saints player from that team? Why does Hargrove get a half season suspension for having the misfortune of having walked past the camera at the wrong time?

    For a long time I’ve been on the league’s side about this but more and more it looks like their evidence in BS. Here-say and long pole-vaults over gaps in logic to reach a pre-determined conclusion, with ample amounts of wishy-washy CYA talk.

  32. geauxjay says: Jul 5, 2012 9:49 PM

    It’s not only an injustice to Hargrove–it punishes the Packers, who had nothing to do with it.

    And let’s just play Devil’s Advocate and say that Remi Ayodele said it. He gets to play this year and has no punishment. And guess which team he just returned to? You guessed it–the Saints.

    There seems to be no limit to how stupid this entire case is.

  33. flipx99 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:55 PM

    phillyfanmatt says:
    Jul 5, 2012 9:17 PM
    “I am not saying Goodell is right and I am not saying the players are right but I have a question to you all as I am curious of what most people say. But what if the players lose in court. Then appeal and lose there. And finally appeal to the supreme court and lose there. Will everyone still continue to say the commish was wrong? I am curious is all.”

    IDK, in your hypothetical would there ever be a time when the evidence is actually presented and subject to scrutiny? Because if the courts simply rule that they have no juridiction then it would make no difference at all.

  34. bayouranch says: Jul 5, 2012 9:56 PM

    Hmm, so the nfl gave Hargrove 8 games for saying that, so should they have given all the saints 8 games? because two guys they can’t name had a bet? or do we find out next that the sound was inaccurate also? Really expected REAL evidence , but i guess they don’t need that, they are the NFL

  35. 49erminer4life says: Jul 5, 2012 9:56 PM

    Vilmas defamation suit will probably be the only sting goodell fills, could get him ran out if a big judgement is awarded.

  36. rajbais says: Jul 5, 2012 9:59 PM

    Reverse the damn ruling!!!! Roger, take it like a man and swallow your medicine!!!

  37. geauxjay says: Jul 5, 2012 10:02 PM

    Anthony Hargrove overcame a mountain of personal issues, drug addiction, and league suspensions, and came out the other side clean and free of all of his demons.

    And now Goodell is going to outright rob him of half a season, when he only has two or three left at most, greatly diminishing his ability to get a big paycheck because he doesn’t have the stones to admit he was wrong.

    How does this man sleep at night? And how are you people still defending this man? Do you hate this team THAT much?

  38. zn0rseman says: Jul 5, 2012 10:04 PM

    Goodall is right, it doesn’t matter if he said it or not. What matters is that it WAS said. which proves what we already know, and that is the Saints were using a bounty program and that both players and coaches are involved.

  39. geauxjay says: Jul 5, 2012 10:12 PM

    And what’s ultimately being lost here is that the Saints weren’t punished because they had a bounty on Brett Favre. They were punished because Goodell said they had a bounty system, he told them to stop, and they didn’t. That is EXACTLY what he said.

    At this point he maybe possibly kinda-sorta proved that there maybe possibly kinda have been a bounty in one game, depending on how you interpret some VERY shady evidence.

    What about the rest?

  40. vikingamericann says: Jul 5, 2012 10:21 PM

    phillyfanmatt
    Jul 5, 2012, 7:17 PM MDT

    To your question if the plays lose how will we react to Roger. It depends on how the players lose. If the case is thrown out due to CBA without any evidence then I will continue to believe Roger is wrong. If it goes to court evidence is presented that the SAINTS had a bounty and Roger was trying to protect the NFL shield then I’ll support him. But based on what has been presented so far this bounty case has devolved to Rogers’s ego and a rush to judgement rather than integrity.

  41. geauxjay says: Jul 5, 2012 10:23 PM

    And finally, I’d think this statement helps the players in their lawsuit. Basically he’s saying Hargrove made his case, he was right, but his suspension stands, well…..just because.

    Tell me truthfully: does this sound like a decision that would be made by an impartial arbitrator?

  42. csmit44 says: Jul 5, 2012 10:37 PM

    commissioner*

  43. Little Earthquake says: Jul 5, 2012 10:38 PM

    Next we’ll be hearing from Roger that Rosemary Woods accidentally erased the evidence.

  44. raidafan7 says: Jul 5, 2012 10:41 PM

    Will Smith got suspended because he wears a “C” on his uniform. There is NO bounty evidence because there was no bounty. Goodell said early on that he will punish players in leadership roles. RG just proved that he is a man of his word. Even if he just has to make up the things as he goes.

  45. flipx99 says: Jul 5, 2012 10:48 PM

    zn0rseman says:
    Jul 5, 2012 10:04 PM
    “Goodall is right, it doesn’t matter if he said it or not. What matters is that it WAS said. which proves what we already know, and that is the Saints were using a bounty program and that both players and coaches are involved.”

    Ever been to the Superdome? 70k people screaming at the top of their lungs. We don’t even know whether Hargrove even heard it — let alone what he “must have known” if he did.

    There are types of random crap said by players on the sideline. Ever hear Ray Lewis when he is mic’d up?

    What you won’t hear is another player, saying, “pardon me Mr. Lewis — but I am not quite sure of what you meant when you stated that ‘we are a buncha crazed dogs.’”

  46. jjbadd says: Jul 5, 2012 10:52 PM

    My very 1st assessment & opinion of this whole situation seems to be absolutely right. It’s very simple. It’s nothin more than a possible pay for performance amongst players, for hard but legal playing, that got blown way out of proportion! Maybe they got a couple grand for a sack, or int, or forced fumble, etc. That’s no big deal, & I stick to my opinion that it likely happens on many other teams! Now the problem is, Goodell probably realizes its not as serious as he thought, but feels he is past the point of no return! I don’t care for tha Saints, I’ve always like my Broncos..but I’ll always know that the Saints players, & coaches got crapped on by Goodell because he ain’t man enough to admit he overreacted. Also, anyone that has been keeping up with this, & believes Goodell is capable of being fair, is very mistaken! He used certain evidence to suspend Vilma, then admits his evidence against Vilma was evidence at all, yet doesn’t make any change! That is just corrupt! I hope Vilma and the other few Saints win any & everything they can against dictator Goodell! Common sense tells you that its not fair to pick a certain few out of an entire team tha is presumed to be involved, & punish just the few!

  47. whodatgirl1 says: Jul 5, 2012 10:59 PM

    To the people on Goodell’s (NFL) side:

    Context, people, context. “Give me my money.” Could mean a number of things, including a bounty, sure. But with out the context of the entire conversation, there are NO ASSUMPTIONS or IMPLICATIONS to be made.

    If the statement was “give me my money for the bounty,” there would be no discussion here.

    It is not quite certain who uttered the words, so you cannot punish the man for that. So the NFL is saying the he is losing 8 games because “he knew”. Additionally, Hargrove gave them that much disputed, re-written declaration and still got half a season. So, what does giving the NFL information land you?

  48. saintsfan26 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:04 PM

    zn0rseman says: Jul 5, 2012 10:04 PM

    Goodall is right, it doesn’t matter if he said it or not. What matters is that it WAS said. which proves what we already know, and that is the Saints were using a bounty program and that both players and coaches are involved.

    ______________

    It proves NOTHING dude. I just walked outside and yelled “pay me my money” as loud as i could. Does that mean i have a bounty on Favre?

  49. phillyfanmatt says: Jul 5, 2012 11:07 PM

    Yes what if the evidence was presented in court and witnesses were interviewed and the courts uphold Goodells rulings. Would people still be crying foul? I bet some would.

  50. pizzon says: Jul 5, 2012 11:08 PM

    sounds to me like Mr Goodell wants his cake and eat it too all on his terms.

  51. shzastl says: Jul 5, 2012 11:12 PM

    Why couldn’t “my money” refer to a payout for a sack?
    —————

    Anything’s possible, but the context of saying it right after Vitt says he’s out with a broken leg strongly suggests pay for injury.

  52. cornersss says: Jul 5, 2012 11:15 PM

    NFL should have just suspended everyone in that video till someone came forward. It works for the rest of us, why not NFL players?

    Pretty clear people are still lying,which would get any us locked up or fired.People forget players are employees that got it pretty good atm.

  53. tmar1961 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:16 PM

    How could Mary Jo be impartial, she was PAID by the NFL for her services. What did you expect her to say the findings were?

  54. cornersss says: Jul 5, 2012 11:18 PM

    “IDK, in your hypothetical would there ever be a time when the evidence is actually presented and subject to scrutiny?”

    Because clearly BOTH SIDES have interest in the whole truth not coming out.Not sure why nobody is saying this.

    NFL has to look tough on injuries, and players know something went on but figure the NFL can never come fully out with the evidence, coaches are NFL staff by the way who were fingered for putting this system in. Problem is players and coaches dont want to rat each other out

  55. cornersss says: Jul 5, 2012 11:21 PM

    “It proves NOTHING dude. I just walked outside and yelled “pay me my money” as loud as i could. Does that mean i have a bounty on Favre?”

    Because it was as simple as that for vilma? Um no..

    Wasnt like they weren’t accused 1st and just spurted out “pay me” ,like your bad explanation seems to suggest

  56. 6thsense79 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:22 PM

    zn0rseman says:Jul 5, 2012 10:04 PM

    Goodall is right, it doesn’t matter if he said it or not. What matters is that it WAS said. which proves what we already know, and that is the Saints were using a bounty program and that both players and coaches are involved.
    ——————————————–

    Ok. If that’s all that matters than why in world was Hargrove singled out for punishment when a gang of other Saints players were around during the moment those words were said? What is the League’s vendetta against Hargrove? How exactly did the commish decide Hargrove should get the second most severe player penalty (8 games) and the other players (Fujita, etc. receive half as much)? This makes absolutely no sense. The league hasn’t even provided any conclusive evidence that what was going on was a bounty vs. pay for performance.

    This is really one of the more rediculous thing the league has ever done. Instead of calling the program what it was and issuing punishments that should have been 4 games at the most for a pay for performance program they decided to not only bring out bazooka but drag a number of people’s names through the mud by acting as if the program was more malicious than it really was. All this to pre empt multi billion dollar lawsuits filed by former players.

    For anyone that think oh no the league will never do this I’d like to remind you that this is the same league that implemented an illegal salary cap during an uncapped year and then waited 2 seasons after ensuring the new CBA protected them before lowering the boom on two teams that refused to collude. That takes planning, cunning, and deviousness. It’s crazy people still drink the league’s kool aid.

  57. really999 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:27 PM

    Goodell is a fraudulent joke and is ruining the credibility do the league says he defends. Patriots clearly break rules and get a FREE PASS. All this bs vs the saints which real nfl fans don’t believe. Arbitrary penalties vs Dallas and washington for colluding in a capless year after brokering a deal with nflpa.

    Roger. Not foolin anyone. Your autocracy is ruining the NFL. please go away.

  58. really999 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:28 PM

    Goodell is a fraudulent joke and is ruining the credibility do the league he says he defends. Patriots clearly break rules and get a FREE PASS. All this bs vs the saints which real nfl fans don’t believe. Arbitrary penalties vs Dallas and washington for colluding in a capless year after brokering a deal with nflpa.

    Roger. Not foolin anyone. Your autocracy is ruining the NFL. please go away.

  59. mjkelly77 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:41 PM

    I can’t help but laugh at so many of these comments that are based on wishful thinking and faulty logic. I’ll synopsize the issue.The Saints were guilty of an illegal bounty program, whether meant to inflict injuries or not. Illegal either way. Then the Saints compounded the transgression by lying about the existence of the program. Now they’re trying to take the NFL to court, being advised to do so by the same idiot attorneys that had them aprove the CBA about which they now complain. Sorry. The CBA allows the Commissioner to determine the guilt and mete out the punishment. This will stand.

    And with strategic planning and forward-thinking, Commissioner Goodell is currently in the process of saving the NFL and assuring his future position as one of the best commissioners the league has ever had. The intelligent readers already know this. However,, it may take some years for the lesser intellectually gifted to come to this realization.

  60. dsnuts79 says: Jul 5, 2012 11:47 PM

    hey saints fans… the patriot fans called.

    and they want their whinny homer excuses back!

  61. sportfanz says: Jul 5, 2012 11:47 PM

    Stop the whining! If you don’t understand that the motivation techniques the Saints coaching staff and players “got caught” utilizing are detrimental to the NFL and the game of football you can’t be a true fan of the game. Stop attacking Goodell…he is doing the job the owners are paying him to do. Saints fans need to simply take their medicine.

  62. blogspotsblog says: Jul 5, 2012 11:55 PM

    If you think about it, if you do not know who said it, then how do you know what context it was made in. First of all, there was no evidence of a bounty on brett favre in that game. Second- It could just as easily show pay for performance because there was a turnover on the play and there was a big hit on the quarterback. So for those reasons, it could just as easily mean that the player was reffering to pay for performance. Third, the players get a HUGE check for making it to the super bowl. The players are fully aware of that, so at this point the player feels like it is over so he says “give me my money” not in the context of a bounty, but in the context of “its over, give me my check cause its OVER”. It is no different than him sayin ” Im bout to get paid”. It is VERY possible and VERY logical that the player was reffering to the money that EVERY player gets for going to the super bowl. It was just another way of saying “Its over, we going to the bowl baby. He felt like they were going to win at that point cause the star player was down at a critical moment in a critical game.. Him saying give me my money was just another way of saying “we are gonna win so you can pay me now”. It is highly logical that the phrase was said in this context. Not in the context of a bounty. And considering that no one has seen any proof that there was a bounty on favre except for a fabricated note that the league itself admitted was inaccurate. It is logical to conclude that their was no bounty system. Also, it could have been a conversation between two other players or a joke between players. It was like saying “give me my money now” or “give me my check”. just another way of saying “its over” because they know that there is a huge check waiting on them if they win and everyone in the league is aware of that fact. So him saying that is just acknowleging the fact that he feels like the game is now over. So saying give me my money is a way of showing that ” its over”. And it kind of does matter who said it, because if it was anyone other than the two that made the hit, then what reason would they have to say it other than what I have already stated. If it was the one of the two players, then perhaps it was just a side bet or joke between those two people, not an full blown bounty that the entire team was in on. And also it could have simpley been for the reason that I stated in my opening statement. give me my money may not have been refering to a bounty at all, but instead was said in the context of the reasons that I have stated in this comment. Give me my money could have very well been reffering to the HUGE check that every player recieves for making it to the super bowl. Being fully aware of this at the time, and feeling like the game was over at this point, he says “give me my money” as another way of expressing anticipation of going to the super bowl and excited about the money that he is going to get. And money could have been an analogy refering to the other rewards that you get for winning this game (i.e. bonuses, NFC championship rings, reward for hitting the quarterback and for putting a crushing hit on him etc.) This explanation is just as logical as the explanation that the league has given. Since the statement has no iron clad context, it is all assumption. And until we know who said it, we will never know why it was said. And the players have said that they do not know who said it or why it was said. But given the evidence, it could not have been a bounty reference, because the only thing to support a bounty is a not that the nfl admits was inaccuarte. It is highly possible that vilma is right and that the not was created WAY after the game. Where are the orighinal notes, and why did he not produce them. it is like the drawing of a fingerprint, useless. Where did the legder come from and why was it handwritted and not typed. And speaking of that leger, why did the league not show it as evidence. Also the league failed to match the payments up with injury. the payments shown, lined up with perfromance, not injury. It is very logical to not that the man who gave the info may have been the disgruntled employee that everyone is sure of.

  63. briggsweatbird says: Jul 5, 2012 11:56 PM

    I have always been a “league” guy, typically taking the side of the league and management over the players. Goodell demonstrates that absolute power corrupts absolutely. What goes around comes around. His machinations will lead to a decline in league popularity. He IS unfair. Americans want fair. He is arrogant. Americans detest arrogance (see The Decision and Lebron in general). I do not like Goodell. For me, that is quite a statement. I will listen less well to him in the future, even if he has a legitimate point to make. I do not trust him. Nuf sed.

  64. silentcount says: Jul 6, 2012 12:07 AM

    Some how, when Goodell watched the tape, he heard, “Pay me 10 thousand dollars for my part in the bounty system to intentionally injure players.” The last time Goodell spoke on TV, I heard, “Look how I fabricated a safety villain and severely punished it. The meany bounty system caused all those concussions, but I made it go away. It’s all safe now and you can stop the lawsuits.”

  65. cwwgk says: Jul 6, 2012 12:13 AM

    The league has stated all along Hargrove’s discipline was based on his efforts to conceal the bounty program, not just his participation in it.

    Hargrove admitted he was asked to lie to league investigators by his coaches. Hargrove stated he was asked to lie about a bounty program. Hargrove claims he somehow didn’t know what his coaches were talking about but still agreed to lie. Hargrove admitted he lied to league investigators about the bounty program.

    The tape shows Hargrove in the smsll group of players Vitt was addressing when Vitt informed them Favre was out with an INJURY. Someone in the small group responds to the information by requesting he be paid. Whether or not Hargrove said, the video shows he was involved with group. In the real world, not CSI, that is overwhelming evidence that the program existed and Hargrove knew about. Ask any law student, it’s Evidence 101.

    Hargrove was suspended for lying. That’s why it is irrelevant whether or not it’s his voice on the tape.

  66. j0esixpack says: Jul 6, 2012 12:18 AM

    So in “Jerry McGuiire” when he said “show me the money” that was obviously a reference to their own bounty system I assume?

    Good thing Roger didn’t take away their Golden Globes

  67. musicman495 says: Jul 6, 2012 12:32 AM

    jazz321 says: Jul 5, 2012 9:13 PM

    Roger Goodell will need Perry Mason to get him out of this mess. He should have used Paul Drake instead of Mary Jo White to conduct the investigation.
    ———————————————-
    It is even more absurd than you suggest, since Mary Jo White did not actually conduct the investigation – she just came in as a hired gun after the NFL performed their “investigation” to tell us what a great job the league did. That is one reason the NFLPA has rejected the entire enterprise and requested that the league start over again.

    I cannot wait for a federal judge to demand that the NFL show the Court their evidence, so we can learn what else in those “50,000 pages of evidence” is wrong or tainted.

  68. buccaroo989 says: Jul 6, 2012 12:36 AM

    For all of the Saint’s fans who are trying to make sense of this whole bounty program and appear to have convinced themselves the Bounty program didn’t exist consider this:
    What if I told you the Saint coaches confessed to what would be considered a criminal enterprise in any other business. What if I were to tell you that your players were targeting specific players on other teams by placing bounties on them for specific injuries (some characterized by terms like cart offs). What if I told you that your team had an (incentive program) and that graphics were found on your teams computers at your team headquarters depicting a tv character called “dog- the bounty hunter” that’s right the “bounty” hunter, that
    B—–0—–u——-n—–t——y hunter. I hope y’all got Dat. At your team head quarters on your teams computers. What if I were to tell you that one of your coordinators could be heard on an audio tape released across the nation saying “kill the head”-”remember me shots”

  69. buccaroo989 says: Jul 6, 2012 12:40 AM

    Your in denial, and suffering from a psychological phenomena known as cognitive disonence (look it up). The only real justice would be if your entire defense were suspended. Even your owner is investigating his staff.

  70. percey12 says: Jul 6, 2012 12:42 AM

    Goodell is right, it doesn’t matter who said it.

    THE ENTIRE DEFENSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED 8 GAMES!

  71. ilovefoolsball says: Jul 6, 2012 12:44 AM

    Boy that guy ManBearPig sure has been quietly lately.

    Maybe he ran out of asterisks.

  72. blogspotsblog says: Jul 6, 2012 12:58 AM

    @brenenolster
    Well for one, how would they remember everything that they said in a game two years ago. I know I dont remember everything that I said two years ago (I dont even rember everything I said this morning lol). And the players have urged that whoever said to come foward. They were punished for saying something that could have been a reference to a list of things. And plus, if hargrove did not say it, then why is he suspended. Because if this was the crux of their case against him then his suspension should be lifted. And it was his HIGH PROFILE PROSECUTER FRIEND who said that it was hargrove and that you could see his lips moving (unless she has x ray vision i dont know how she was going to see that). So if she blew it on this AND the hargrove statement. then what else did she screw up.

  73. atwatercrushesokoye says: Jul 6, 2012 1:51 AM

    To anyone claiming the “pay me my money” could be in context to a performance bonus, it can’t players contracts are paid over the 17 weeks of the regular season (in the playoffs they get a specified playoff share) so any stats that would lead to a performance bonus kicking in would take place between weeks 1-17 not in the NFC championship game.

    Also for those claiming that it could be a guy in the front row talking to a hot dog vendor, it’s been stated over and over by Saints fans that the Superdome is so loud you can’t hear what’s going on so is it more logical the sound came from the crowd away from where the camera and microphones are pointed or from the sideline where they’re directed?

    And lastly this isn’t a criminal trial, the burden of proof in this case doesn’t need to be beyond a shadow of a doubt, think of it as the OJ civil trial as opposed to OJ criminal trial.

  74. judsonjr says: Jul 6, 2012 2:19 AM

    Roger should suspended himself for a year for this. I don’t doubt that the Saints are guilty but this whole thing has been botched to the point where it is worse than if there were only minor punishments given. Really if the players were only given a couple games each, this would have just blown over.

    But since ole Rog put the hammer down with a sloppy investigation, he’s up the creek now

  75. brianbosworthisstonecold says: Jul 6, 2012 3:43 AM

    RIP Andy Griffith. If Ben Matlock handled this case for either side, justice would be served.

  76. mdd913 says: Jul 6, 2012 4:34 AM

    shzastl says: Jul 5, 2012 11:12 PM

    Anything’s possible, but the context of saying it right after Vitt says he’s out with a broken leg strongly suggests pay for injury.

    —————————————————————–

    Yeah, but the NFL told you to think that.

    The NFL also told you that ledgers proved the bounties, until the game tapes showed that the coinciding injuries didn’t actually happen. Then the NFL told you that Hargrove wrote a statement where he admitted lying about there being a “bounty system,” except then the statement was released and Hargrove had written nothing of the sort. Then the NFL told you that Hargrove said “give me my money,” now they’re saying maybe he didn’t say it, but it doesn’t matter because he’s still suspended anyway.

    At this point, why should anybody believe anything the NFL says? How are they getting away with this?

    I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

  77. thatboybaked says: Jul 6, 2012 5:01 AM

    I can clearly see and understand why a paid bounty program ran by a team should have no place in the NFL.

    With that said, I find the whole thing humorous because players are essentially getting paid for playing the game which involves hitting other players hard to create turnovers and such. There really is no difference because at the end of the day the players are getting paid to play football which includes all the things inside of a bounty scandal, its just not so black and white.

  78. weneedlinemen42 says: Jul 6, 2012 5:33 AM

    I am just waiting for someone at the league office to see Jerry Maguire, they’re certain to start an investigation into the Cardinals.

    One of their players is continually shouting “show me the money”. You can see his lips move and everything.

  79. bobzilla1001 says: Jul 6, 2012 5:34 AM

    This entire subject is moronic, and here’s why: A few years ago, prior to a Steelers-Ravens game, either Scott or Suggs of the Ravens went on a Baltimore radio station and declared that there was a bounty out on Hines Ward.
    That interview was replayed countless times in Pittsburgh. The league (Goodell) never reacted. Not even so much as a blink.
    Suddenly, such talk now causes suspensions.
    Moronic.

  80. barneyfifeactionfigure says: Jul 6, 2012 6:44 AM

    Go Goodell!!! Clean up that horrible franchise.

  81. kellij666 says: Jul 6, 2012 7:49 AM

    What a jerk!!!!! now he wants to say that what whether Hargrove said it or not does not matter, give me a break. If the courts don’t force this guy to reveal all evidence then the 32 owners better step up because it’s going to be their pockets that are affected by this in the long run as all these involved will sue for damages. just show us the proof!!!! simple as that. if it’s what you say it is then there should be no question as to the validity so let’s see it and then we can all move on. i am a saints fan and if they did what he says they did they should be punished but let’s see if they really did it first. just show us what you’ve got!!!! damn…..

  82. harryglyphics says: Jul 6, 2012 7:58 AM

    Everybody continues to miss the point. It’s not about hitting and hurting and injuring players; it’s all about the money and where it came from. In this case, some of it came from that Ornstein guy, who the Commish continually told Payton et.al. to get rid of.

  83. mdd913 says: Jul 6, 2012 8:33 AM

    harryglyphics says: Jul 6, 2012 7:58 AM
    In this case, some of it came from that Ornstein guy,

    —————————————————————–

    No, it didn’t, because he was in federal prison at the time.

    Funny how a few simple facts have thrown just about every aspect of this investigation into question.

  84. electionconfidential says: Jul 6, 2012 8:58 AM

    Maybe the league should get new investigators. Saying that Hargrove was the one who made the statement was ridiculous given that Hargrove wasn’t even in on the play… If Hargrove was asking for money it would PROVE that the money wasn’t related to the hit because Hargrove wasn’t one of the two players that hit Favre..

  85. mulefunk says: Jul 6, 2012 9:25 AM

    The Saints are getting the Patriots punishment.

    When the Patriots get caught spying then they get hit with a 1st and a 3rd round pick. The Saints get hit with the loss of coaches,players,etc.

    The Patriots get their evidence destroyed and another member franchise gets players and coaches suspended.

    Goodell should beg for 3rd party arbitration.

  86. ronin36 says: Jul 6, 2012 9:35 AM

    I wonder..

    What was the NFL’s written reason for suspending Hargrove in the first place?

    If memory serves, it was originally written that he was suspended for bounty, and they are now say for lying.

    To me, this should be something the press, and Hargrove’s agent and attourneys should be jumping on.

    Like others have written this is sounding more and more like the Commisioner and the top brass jumped to a conclusion, and are new trying to justify it.

    Payton, Williams, etcetera.. they need not speak out, because if they bide their time, it’ll all unravel without them saying a thing.

    Now, I’m waiting.. just one string. Somebody in the NFL office to leak a memo.. and this could unravel very fast.

  87. refwriter says: Jul 6, 2012 10:01 AM

    An argument can be made that the “give me my money” comment referred to the Super bowl bonus he would be receiving with the Saints appearance seemingly guaranteed with the news Favre would not be returning to the NFC championship…

    It is amazing that with all the bluster and rhetoric involved with motivating pro football players, that Roger Goodell would see fit to levy $17 million in lost wages as well as so recklessly smear the names of 8 men…

  88. flipx99 says: Jul 7, 2012 7:11 AM

    “buccaroo989 says: Jul 6, 2012 12:40 AM

    Your in denial, and suffering from a psychological phenomena known as cognitive disonence (look it up). The only real justice would be if your entire defense were suspended. Even your owner is investigating his staff.”

    Cognitivate “dissonance.”

  89. cowboycjn says: Jul 10, 2012 11:12 AM

    mrpowers88 says:
    Jul 5, 2012 8:58 PM
    Oh wow!!! This must mean all the other evidence the league has is pointless because the players are obviously not at fault for anything!!!!
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
    So YOU think an assumption is evidence, yea your one smart cookie.

    Thats the whole gist of the entire mess – there really is no true evidence of anything other than hear-say (gossip) assumptions and stories that people have turned into their side of a story that has no real factual anything. You missed the whole point of things – its Ok we have all kinds in here.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!