Hey owners start lawsuits on getting more money back from players.

I agree there is vitriol on both sides. Im not arguing the evidence nothing I say or point out is nor more likely to change your opinion than you are to change mine that the evidence us weak. My point was that reasonable people see the same evidence and the NFL and players’ action and each side has valid points. However in my opinion you always err on the side of innocence until proven guilty and I believe the evidence is sufficiently flawed and the investigation handled so poorly that as long as the NFL is involved it cant be fixed…hence the need for an impartial party and/or new investigation. Remember Gooddell publicly stated before the suspensions were meted out they were guilty of a pay to injure bounty program. Have you ever tried yo convince someone who went on national TV and stated you were guilty to chmage their mind and go back on TV and admit he was wrong? More importantly exactly how do you prove you’re innocent of doing something? Its not as if you’re establishing a record during 2009-2011 of things you didn’t do. Sorry I digress….all I really meant to say was reasonable people can disagree in a civil manner.

Is it against the site’s rules to point out that the public or should I say many visitors to this site seem to bow down to whatever the man has to say against people? Or that the lack of challenges to information is quite alarming when reading this site? Or was because I stated how easy it will be for a mastermind to overcome the world with the sheep mentality that our society has seem to adapt during the information age?

NFL has constantly overreached. First its the salary cap mess where teams are punished for spending, but teams that did not spend a $ are rewarded during an UNCAPPED YEAR?! Or the sweeping under the rug of the Patriots filming other teams practices? Maybe I offended you when I stated that the so called evidence is a joke at best, and a sham that most of us on this site has accepted as truth?

Whatever the reason, I hope we as a society get smarter and stop believing everything we read on the Internet because some big typhoon said it was so. Very dangerous to bow down that way.

They offered no evidence to prove their innocence.

In Goodell’s court its guilty until proven innocent – and if they were unable to disprove a negative, they must be guilty.

I wonder if the judge will go for that.

“I’m just as pissed with the owners as I am Goodell, they are equally responsible for where we are with this mess. Shame on the NFL and the 31 owners that are standing by like wall flowers as the institution they built suffered from this assault on it’s credibility. Shame on you!!!”

Um, I’m assuming the owner not on your “shame” list is that of the owner, Tom Benson. As with the other owners, Goodell answers to him.

But has Benson publicly disputed the NFL’s allegations? No. The Saints instead issued an apology in which it specifically referenced bounty programs.

When Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder got hit with salary cap discipline they appealed. Did Benson after getting fined $500,000 and the loss of draft picks? No. To the contrary, Mr. Benson hired the former director of the FBI to investigate his own franchise.

As with every other owner in the league, Mr. Benson has not taken one action against Goodell. His silence is deafening.

jade amor says:
Jul 6, 2012 5:55 PM
Plus, if you are completely innocent, who cares if you have seen 1 page of evidence, or 50,000. Innocent is innocent. The fact that the players talk a big game in public, but sit silent in private, doesnt tell the story of falsely accused.
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I would care, since the evidence was gathered with a presumption of guilt and therefore completely out of line with normal reasoning. The players only ‘sat silent’ when they knew they would be fighting an unwinnable fight. Once/if it gets to an unbiased courtroom, they’ll no longer be silent, believe me.

You are going to “educate”? Doubt you graduated law school with Goodell. In fact….have a hard time thinking you may be an educator of any sort. Goodell played his hand as well as any lawyer could. The NFLPA were merely out-smarted. Time to admit defeat on this issue and move to something which should be even more important to the membership (and not just a few players). ie. concussions and permanent disabilities.

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Just to be clear, Goodell is not a lawyer; he has an econ degree from a small liberal arts school…

That said, he has all the lawyers that he needs to do exactly what you said – outsmart the NFLPA…

Why the silence from the GM, HC and DC?

And we’re the blind ones….

“We get it, you hate the Saints, all winning franchises are hated, but this is about more than the Saints, your favorite team and player will be next.”

The Saints aren’t a “winning franchise”.

The Saints have never had more than 3 winning seasons in a row and only have 11 winning seasons in their entire history starting in 1967.

Heck, even in the last 20 years, they’ve only managed a winning season 7 times.

I actually liked the Saints before learning of the bounties. I used to like Drew Brees before he started acting like a prima donna.

Time to admit that your coaches and players are responsible for their own predicament and stop making excuses about people “hating” your team because of their brief winning record

they had their chance. they, in essence, “took the fifth”.

oh jason1980…. a little self-important aren’t you?
Most fans remember wells the Aint’s with their bags on their head for decades. So, to assume that the rest of the world has thoughts of “the who dat dominant force” is absurd.

We just think that those repsonsible should be held accountible.

We have all seen the same evidence and formed opinions based on how we interpret it. As a reasonable person I have serious doubts about the credibility of the evidence and the investigation and believe a new investigation by an impartial party is the best way to resolve this. I think its important to get to the truth since this impacts people’s livelihoods and careers. What I find amazing is the absolute certainty those who think guilt has been proven have and the vitriol directed towards those who disagree and towards the players.
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Pot, meet kettle… LMFAO

Though I dont disagree with most of what you said, you missed one important piece. Yes everyone has formed their own opinion, but you cited the vitriol toward those that believe the players are innocent. That is a 2 way street my friend. Look through the comments that basically all say if you disagree with me you are an idiot, lol.

Personally, I think the NFLs evidence is flawed at best, BUT, if you were accused of doing something that you know you didnt do, what would you do when you had your appeal? Would you sit silent? Would your lawyers sit silent? I doubt it. Plus, if you are completely innocent, who cares if you have seen 1 page of evidence, or 50,000. Innocent is innocent. The fact that the players talk a big game in public, but sit silent in private, doesnt tell the story of falsely accused

You are going to “educate”? Doubt you graduated law school with Goodell. In fact….have a hard time thinking you may be an educator of any sort. Goodell played his hand as well as any lawyer could. The NFLPA were merely out-smarted. Time to admit defeat on this issue and move to something which should be even more important to the membership (and not just a few players). ie. concussions and permanent disabilities.

Didn’t Hargrove prove that the video wasn’t of him, and Goodell punished him anyway, basically because “we have other evidence?” Well, how can he further defend himself if he doesn’t know what it is?

When the league has clearly not followed agreed upon processes under the CBA then for the players to continue in that process would only serve the league by givin the appearance that the players were OK with the leagues multiple violations.

And for the final… If these guys are inocent, its actually impossible for them to submit evidence that they didnt do something…

This so called “INVESTIGATION” is very amateur and I also have the right to say that, as I have conducted three investigations on NFL players myself….

“I am the ghost of failure to participate, Jonathan Vilma….Woooooooo!”.

You should educate yourself first. This has nothing to do with hate. This is basically a big game of poker between the league & the players. Those that have have been accused of running the program have folded either because they know the league has them dead to rights, or because they just want to get on with everything. Those that have been accused of participating in the program are still in the game, but not because they’ve called the league’s bluff by participating and refuting the accusations; they’re basically stalling trying to get the league to show its full hand before they call, which is not going to happen.

If they want to know what evidence the league has, they need to participate in the hearings and stop filing additional suits.

Saints fans can call it a pay for performance program if they want (Fujita came right out and said that existed) but the truth is that’s illegal, the nfl told them to stop in 2009 and they didn’t, they kept on going, they also lied about it and tried to cover it up (Payton told the assistant coaches to “get your ducks in a row”) you can call it whatever you want but by their own admissions they’re guilty.