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	<title>Comments on: Breaking down the divide in the NFL-NFLRA dispute</title>
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	<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/</link>
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		<title>By: jimyjak</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1968770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimyjak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2012 03:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1968770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It’s all about the haves and have-nots. The Kings, their kingdom, and the serfs. It’s time for RobbinHood to show up. I and many of my friends will not watch an NFL game until the serfs are compensated appropriately]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s all about the haves and have-nots. The Kings, their kingdom, and the serfs. It’s time for RobbinHood to show up. I and many of my friends will not watch an NFL game until the serfs are compensated appropriately</p>
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		<title>By: sactogary</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sactogary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The NFLRA is in the same place as MJD. No leverage, and little popular support for their position. They both need the other side of their respective situations to make a gesture which will allow them to save face.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NFLRA is in the same place as MJD. No leverage, and little popular support for their position. They both need the other side of their respective situations to make a gesture which will allow them to save face.</p>
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		<title>By: fringetastic</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964277</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fringetastic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the officials are already well compensated, so I don&#039;t have much sympathy for them on that front.

However, I take exception to categorizing being an official as a &#039;hobby&#039;. It is a second job. It has responsibilities, pay, benefits, deadlines, training and evaluations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the officials are already well compensated, so I don&#8217;t have much sympathy for them on that front.</p>
<p>However, I take exception to categorizing being an official as a &#8216;hobby&#8217;. It is a second job. It has responsibilities, pay, benefits, deadlines, training and evaluations.</p>
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		<title>By: raideralex</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[raideralex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If people knew the intelligence it requires to:
memorize that many rules, 
and it&#039;s penalties/rewards, 
and combine it with the ability to know when to call something and when to swallow the flag,

and how not to be intimidated by a huge moment, or a head coach, 

how few officials are even good enough for high school, let alone college, and how 1 in 10,000 makes it to top division 1, and how harder it is to be soooooo good at what you do, a 24-7 effort into studying and keeping up with the rules and evaluating yourself and attending trainings that you earn your way to the NFL after DECADES of practicing...

I think you&#039;d stop calling it a &quot;hobby&quot; and realize that, due to how few people qualify for this job, it&#039;s worth $150,000 plus a year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people knew the intelligence it requires to:<br />
memorize that many rules,<br />
and it&#8217;s penalties/rewards,<br />
and combine it with the ability to know when to call something and when to swallow the flag,</p>
<p>and how not to be intimidated by a huge moment, or a head coach, </p>
<p>how few officials are even good enough for high school, let alone college, and how 1 in 10,000 makes it to top division 1, and how harder it is to be soooooo good at what you do, a 24-7 effort into studying and keeping up with the rules and evaluating yourself and attending trainings that you earn your way to the NFL after DECADES of practicing&#8230;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;d stop calling it a &#8220;hobby&#8221; and realize that, due to how few people qualify for this job, it&#8217;s worth $150,000 plus a year.</p>
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		<title>By: bearsstillsuck</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bearsstillsuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The refs look like they&#039;re all at least seventy, why are they worried about retirement?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The refs look like they&#8217;re all at least seventy, why are they worried about retirement?</p>
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		<title>By: moth25</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[moth25]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, THANK YOU!  This is the article I was hoping you&#039;d write after my comments last night.  Very fair and balanced to both sides, telling us what each side is after and where they stand.  It does make it hard to take the refs side or claim that the NFL is penny-pinching after reading this.

The NFL could offer a bit more money to get talks moving, and maybe offer some sort of phase out of the pensions as other companies have done (i.e., new employees will be 401k, current pension holders will move to 401k in 2-3 years).  This would result in some retirements and allow new blood to be brought in also.  It is clear though that the NFLRA needs to do some major compromising here and are the reason this is not getting done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, THANK YOU!  This is the article I was hoping you&#8217;d write after my comments last night.  Very fair and balanced to both sides, telling us what each side is after and where they stand.  It does make it hard to take the refs side or claim that the NFL is penny-pinching after reading this.</p>
<p>The NFL could offer a bit more money to get talks moving, and maybe offer some sort of phase out of the pensions as other companies have done (i.e., new employees will be 401k, current pension holders will move to 401k in 2-3 years).  This would result in some retirements and allow new blood to be brought in also.  It is clear though that the NFLRA needs to do some major compromising here and are the reason this is not getting done.</p>
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		<title>By: mgdsquiggy17</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mgdsquiggy17]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;as calls begin to blow the line people are going to scream bloody murder at the NFL to bring the refs back.&quot;

why so we can watch the regular officials make some of the same terrible calls and then you will probably be one of the first ones here complaining how much they suck.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;as calls begin to blow the line people are going to scream bloody murder at the NFL to bring the refs back.&#8221;</p>
<p>why so we can watch the regular officials make some of the same terrible calls and then you will probably be one of the first ones here complaining how much they suck.</p>
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		<title>By: fester986</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fester986]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@lks311 12:00pm comment:

Disagree on the fact that &quot;plurality of us&quot; could be good NFL refs if properly trained.

I&#039;m a ref in a different sport (soccer and wrestling), and I&#039;m reffing at or slightly below where the NFL replacement refs are being drawn from (low-level college etc).  I know several FIFA/National level refs, and have worked with National level refs on a fairly consistent basis in my career.  Working on the assumption that the NFL wants the football equivilent of FIFA/National level refs on their games, most refs can&#039;t get there.

Their fitness is not high enough, or their ability to keep track of fourteen variables (style of play or teams, personal animosity between players, history, game flow, game feel (is it nasty or a friendly), player preferences on what gets called, where the &quot;foul line&quot; is today) and call the game consistently at top-level skill and speed are the filters.  My inability to be a D-2 college level mid-distance runner keeps me from even thinking about going the National referee route as I can handle the mental aspects of the game well enough.  

Plenty of people can referee.  Most but not all of the plenty can referee decent high school games, but the funnel for almost every sport that I know of gets real steep from the high school level game to low college, and gets even steeper to get to Division-1 college and then gets even steeper to get to the professional/top-league levels.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lks311 12:00pm comment:</p>
<p>Disagree on the fact that &#8220;plurality of us&#8221; could be good NFL refs if properly trained.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a ref in a different sport (soccer and wrestling), and I&#8217;m reffing at or slightly below where the NFL replacement refs are being drawn from (low-level college etc).  I know several FIFA/National level refs, and have worked with National level refs on a fairly consistent basis in my career.  Working on the assumption that the NFL wants the football equivilent of FIFA/National level refs on their games, most refs can&#8217;t get there.</p>
<p>Their fitness is not high enough, or their ability to keep track of fourteen variables (style of play or teams, personal animosity between players, history, game flow, game feel (is it nasty or a friendly), player preferences on what gets called, where the &#8220;foul line&#8221; is today) and call the game consistently at top-level skill and speed are the filters.  My inability to be a D-2 college level mid-distance runner keeps me from even thinking about going the National referee route as I can handle the mental aspects of the game well enough.  </p>
<p>Plenty of people can referee.  Most but not all of the plenty can referee decent high school games, but the funnel for almost every sport that I know of gets real steep from the high school level game to low college, and gets even steeper to get to Division-1 college and then gets even steeper to get to the professional/top-league levels.</p>
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		<title>By: wcman</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wcman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well it took you a long time to do it, but you finally wrote a fair and balanced piece on this stalemate Mike.  It&#039;s not just about the NFL being greedy and wanting to have things their way.  It&#039;s about a group of partime employees wanting to be paid and treated like Full Time employees and resisting the idea that maybe it should become a full time job.

I actually see more greed coming from the NFLRA on this issue.  They seem to be saying &quot;but look at how much money you guys are making&quot; instead of negotiating based on what their services offer the league.  It&#039;s going to be painful watching the replacements, but at the end of the day if this leads to full time officials, I think it&#039;s worth it.  The officiating in this league is so bad at times it&#039;s embarrasing.  All you have to do is look at the Giant/Packer Playoff game last year to see how bad the regular officials are and how big of an effect they can have on a game.  Full time officials are long overdue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it took you a long time to do it, but you finally wrote a fair and balanced piece on this stalemate Mike.  It&#8217;s not just about the NFL being greedy and wanting to have things their way.  It&#8217;s about a group of partime employees wanting to be paid and treated like Full Time employees and resisting the idea that maybe it should become a full time job.</p>
<p>I actually see more greed coming from the NFLRA on this issue.  They seem to be saying &#8220;but look at how much money you guys are making&#8221; instead of negotiating based on what their services offer the league.  It&#8217;s going to be painful watching the replacements, but at the end of the day if this leads to full time officials, I think it&#8217;s worth it.  The officiating in this league is so bad at times it&#8217;s embarrasing.  All you have to do is look at the Giant/Packer Playoff game last year to see how bad the regular officials are and how big of an effect they can have on a game.  Full time officials are long overdue.</p>
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		<title>By: dabkg</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dabkg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I honestly believe the NFLRA isn&#039;t holding out because of the raise offer.  I think they want all the accountability, added ref crews, and full time employment removed from the deal before they&#039;re willing to talk.

I absolutely agree that the refs should be full time.  At least the high ranking refs of each crew.  However, all the regular refs are a Union, and thus won&#039;t allow anything they don&#039;t like.  As Florio (and others) have mentioned many of these refs have 150K+ jobs elsewhere.  Which means being converted to full time with the NFL would be a pay cut and they aren&#039;t willing to do it. 

I believe they are at an impasse that can only be surpassed by removing the NFLRA as a whole.  Then the lower ranking refs who are willing at accept what the majority of the NFLRA wouldn&#039;t could then apply individually.

To bring about the changes the NFL wants (and needs) it may take a season or two to completely shake out and implement.  This is why I hate workers unions.  They are outdated, self-serving, and usually exist to protect poor quality workers from receiving exactly what they&#039;ve earned: a pink slip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly believe the NFLRA isn&#8217;t holding out because of the raise offer.  I think they want all the accountability, added ref crews, and full time employment removed from the deal before they&#8217;re willing to talk.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree that the refs should be full time.  At least the high ranking refs of each crew.  However, all the regular refs are a Union, and thus won&#8217;t allow anything they don&#8217;t like.  As Florio (and others) have mentioned many of these refs have 150K+ jobs elsewhere.  Which means being converted to full time with the NFL would be a pay cut and they aren&#8217;t willing to do it. </p>
<p>I believe they are at an impasse that can only be surpassed by removing the NFLRA as a whole.  Then the lower ranking refs who are willing at accept what the majority of the NFLRA wouldn&#8217;t could then apply individually.</p>
<p>To bring about the changes the NFL wants (and needs) it may take a season or two to completely shake out and implement.  This is why I hate workers unions.  They are outdated, self-serving, and usually exist to protect poor quality workers from receiving exactly what they&#8217;ve earned: a pink slip.</p>
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		<title>By: sactogary</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964070</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sactogary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[sdelmonte says:Aug 30, 2012 11:44 AM 

So if the lockout had not occurred, what is the likelihood there would have been a strike? I would like to know, as if the owners made the decision to lock out the refs in a case where otherwise it would have been status quo until a contract was negotiated, then the owners would be totally at fault for anything that happens with the replacements.
---------------------------------------------------------
There almost certainly would have been a strike, and that would mean 1) no football at all, or 2) far worse refereeing than we&#039;re seeing. If the refs are not willing to accept the league&#039;s current generous offer, who believes they wouldn&#039;t strike? Even if they wouldn&#039;t have, how could the league be sure? This was the only way to ensure there would be a football season.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sdelmonte says:Aug 30, 2012 11:44 AM </p>
<p>So if the lockout had not occurred, what is the likelihood there would have been a strike? I would like to know, as if the owners made the decision to lock out the refs in a case where otherwise it would have been status quo until a contract was negotiated, then the owners would be totally at fault for anything that happens with the replacements.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
There almost certainly would have been a strike, and that would mean 1) no football at all, or 2) far worse refereeing than we&#8217;re seeing. If the refs are not willing to accept the league&#8217;s current generous offer, who believes they wouldn&#8217;t strike? Even if they wouldn&#8217;t have, how could the league be sure? This was the only way to ensure there would be a football season.</p>
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		<title>By: natifan30</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natifan30]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always thought these guys got paid little to no money and they did this as a hobby, but damn 150k a year sure is a damn nice hobby to have!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought these guys got paid little to no money and they did this as a hobby, but damn 150k a year sure is a damn nice hobby to have!</p>
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		<title>By: ytownjoe</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964065</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ytownjoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do I understand this right?  The NFL wants full time refs but does not want them to have a pension?
Makes sense.  Corporate America wants to eliminate pensions for everybody.  It only follows that we&#039;ve got to eliminate Social Security next. A kinder and gentler world surely will come to be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I understand this right?  The NFL wants full time refs but does not want them to have a pension?<br />
Makes sense.  Corporate America wants to eliminate pensions for everybody.  It only follows that we&#8217;ve got to eliminate Social Security next. A kinder and gentler world surely will come to be.</p>
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		<title>By: lks311</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1964041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lks311]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1964041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The NFLRA should remember the history of the MLB Umps strike over a decade ago.  They were locked out, as well, and most of those guys NEVER got their jobs.

Refs need to remember that, while 0% of the people posting here have the skills/talent to be NFL players, I would guess the plurality of us could be NFL reps if properly trained.   If you have above average intelligence and are in good physical condition...it ain&#039;t that hard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NFLRA should remember the history of the MLB Umps strike over a decade ago.  They were locked out, as well, and most of those guys NEVER got their jobs.</p>
<p>Refs need to remember that, while 0% of the people posting here have the skills/talent to be NFL players, I would guess the plurality of us could be NFL reps if properly trained.   If you have above average intelligence and are in good physical condition&#8230;it ain&#8217;t that hard.</p>
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		<title>By: sdelmonte</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sdelmonte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So if the lockout had not occurred, what is the likelihood there would have been a strike?  I would like to know, as if the owners made the decision to lock out the refs in a case where otherwise it would have been status quo until a contract was negotiated, then the owners would be totally at fault for anything that happens with the replacements.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if the lockout had not occurred, what is the likelihood there would have been a strike?  I would like to know, as if the owners made the decision to lock out the refs in a case where otherwise it would have been status quo until a contract was negotiated, then the owners would be totally at fault for anything that happens with the replacements.</p>
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		<title>By: bigbluefan1</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963978</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigbluefan1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963978</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hell of a part time gig where do I sign up 

$150,000.00 as a parttime job that is more then most fans make in  two years with fulltime jobs.

What is the average age of a ref how many years does the average ref work?

For that kind of cash they should be fulltime 

These guys have one heck of a hobby]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell of a part time gig where do I sign up </p>
<p>$150,000.00 as a parttime job that is more then most fans make in  two years with fulltime jobs.</p>
<p>What is the average age of a ref how many years does the average ref work?</p>
<p>For that kind of cash they should be fulltime </p>
<p>These guys have one heck of a hobby</p>
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		<title>By: wvugrad00</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963971</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wvugrad00]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963971</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While people do not go to the games to see the refs, plenty of fans depend on the refs to get the calls right, as calls begin to blow the line people are going to scream bloody murder at the NFL to bring the refs back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While people do not go to the games to see the refs, plenty of fans depend on the refs to get the calls right, as calls begin to blow the line people are going to scream bloody murder at the NFL to bring the refs back.</p>
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		<title>By: sactogary</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963968</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sactogary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[capitala23 says:Aug 30, 2012 11:12 AM 

What am I missing with the numbers?
 You said the avg official made $150,000 in 2011, but in the new terms you broke it out to be $27,250 per official per year. So how does that add up to $189,000 under the new deal. I’m sure I’m missing something, but just not sure what.
----------------------------------------------
Apples and oranges. The $40K increase is what the league is offering (but that&#039;s only for the final year of the deal, not the average increase). The $27,250 is the &lt;b&gt;difference&lt;/b&gt; between the league&#039;s offer and what the refs want.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>capitala23 says:Aug 30, 2012 11:12 AM </p>
<p>What am I missing with the numbers?<br />
 You said the avg official made $150,000 in 2011, but in the new terms you broke it out to be $27,250 per official per year. So how does that add up to $189,000 under the new deal. I’m sure I’m missing something, but just not sure what.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Apples and oranges. The $40K increase is what the league is offering (but that&#8217;s only for the final year of the deal, not the average increase). The $27,250 is the <b>difference</b> between the league&#8217;s offer and what the refs want.</p>
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		<title>By: sepl12</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sepl12]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with both sides but for once(I&#039;m extremely pro union) I lean towards the league here. I think they should fold on the financial issues to give the refs something since in reality that money is minimal, but hold strong to the accountability and full time requirements. get the money back in the next negotiations, but it&#039;s time the refs put away their other jobs out find a new hobby.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with both sides but for once(I&#8217;m extremely pro union) I lean towards the league here. I think they should fold on the financial issues to give the refs something since in reality that money is minimal, but hold strong to the accountability and full time requirements. get the money back in the next negotiations, but it&#8217;s time the refs put away their other jobs out find a new hobby.</p>
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		<title>By: tabcdef9</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tabcdef9]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This looks like another Union screwing with reality. Unions have their place, well-earned, but they chronically overreach into unrealistic territory like the NFLPA did last year.

Who works part time and deserves a pension, and the Refs don&#039;t want accountability - are you serious? Get real and accept the truth of the context you&#039;re working in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks like another Union screwing with reality. Unions have their place, well-earned, but they chronically overreach into unrealistic territory like the NFLPA did last year.</p>
<p>Who works part time and deserves a pension, and the Refs don&#8217;t want accountability &#8211; are you serious? Get real and accept the truth of the context you&#8217;re working in.</p>
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		<title>By: sactogary</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963943</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sactogary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Davo - I see two problems with your comment. First, the NFL is not asking the refs to take a pay cut (as you imply) so they can hire &quot;bench strength.&quot; Second, have you ever tried to just &quot;fire&quot; a union employee? I&#039;m guessing you &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; a union employee.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Davo &#8211; I see two problems with your comment. First, the NFL is not asking the refs to take a pay cut (as you imply) so they can hire &#8220;bench strength.&#8221; Second, have you ever tried to just &#8220;fire&#8221; a union employee? I&#8217;m guessing you <i>are</i> a union employee.</p>
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		<title>By: capitala23</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[capitala23]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh wait is the $27,250 the amount the officials want MORE per year than what the NFL is offering them? 

Yeah this is some big money for people that do this on the side. Granted there is a lot of responsibility by the people, as we have seen by the massive failures of the some of the replacements, still some good side money. And Hoch is a lawyer by day right, as I&#039;m sure others are too, (as those are the people that seem to love crazy amounts of rules). So they are already bringing in some good $$. 

Split the difference and lets end this thing. Don&#039;t need 5mins just to spot a ball or figure out the right penalty to charge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh wait is the $27,250 the amount the officials want MORE per year than what the NFL is offering them? </p>
<p>Yeah this is some big money for people that do this on the side. Granted there is a lot of responsibility by the people, as we have seen by the massive failures of the some of the replacements, still some good side money. And Hoch is a lawyer by day right, as I&#8217;m sure others are too, (as those are the people that seem to love crazy amounts of rules). So they are already bringing in some good $$. </p>
<p>Split the difference and lets end this thing. Don&#8217;t need 5mins just to spot a ball or figure out the right penalty to charge.</p>
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		<title>By: floriosfuglykid2</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[floriosfuglykid2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whatever ... the refs make top 1% money ... for their fun part-time job.

I&#039;m with the league on this one.  Bring in replacements and get them up to speed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever &#8230; the refs make top 1% money &#8230; for their fun part-time job.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with the league on this one.  Bring in replacements and get them up to speed.</p>
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		<title>By: capitala23</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[capitala23]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What am I missing with the numbers?
You said the avg official made $150,000 in 2011, but in the new terms you broke it out to be $27,250 per official per year. So how does that add up to $189,000 under the new deal. I&#039;m sure I&#039;m missing something, but just not sure what.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What am I missing with the numbers?<br />
You said the avg official made $150,000 in 2011, but in the new terms you broke it out to be $27,250 per official per year. So how does that add up to $189,000 under the new deal. I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m missing something, but just not sure what.</p>
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		<title>By: eagleswin</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963903</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eagleswin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(Of course, over those same seven years the league will likely have generated more than $70 billion in total revenues.)

-------------------------------

Excellent article.  It&#039;s about time someone delved into the dispute beyond the &quot;replacement officials suck&quot; muckraking.

The only thing I have an issue with is the league revenue numbers that keep getting thrown out.  Because there is no context with it, most times it sounds like they are earning that much PROFIT.   While the numbers are still quite mind boggling the owners side of that would be $35 billion less nonplayer expenses.  Or for the $9 bill/yr number sited most commonly, $4.5 bill less nonplayer expenses.   So while the numbers are still mind boggling, the owners do have quite a bit less profit at their disposal than people assume.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Of course, over those same seven years the league will likely have generated more than $70 billion in total revenues.)</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Excellent article.  It&#8217;s about time someone delved into the dispute beyond the &#8220;replacement officials suck&#8221; muckraking.</p>
<p>The only thing I have an issue with is the league revenue numbers that keep getting thrown out.  Because there is no context with it, most times it sounds like they are earning that much PROFIT.   While the numbers are still quite mind boggling the owners side of that would be $35 billion less nonplayer expenses.  Or for the $9 bill/yr number sited most commonly, $4.5 bill less nonplayer expenses.   So while the numbers are still mind boggling, the owners do have quite a bit less profit at their disposal than people assume.</p>
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		<title>By: rugdog100</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rugdog100]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The regular refs are not that great, but the replacements are abysmal.

The refs should be full-time, like MLB.  The NFL should mirror that model.  The NFL should take this opportunity to start a new system of developing refs and bringing them to NFL refs when they&#039;re ready.

In the meantime... Bobby Fisher!  Where is he - I dunno, I dunno.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The regular refs are not that great, but the replacements are abysmal.</p>
<p>The refs should be full-time, like MLB.  The NFL should mirror that model.  The NFL should take this opportunity to start a new system of developing refs and bringing them to NFL refs when they&#8217;re ready.</p>
<p>In the meantime&#8230; Bobby Fisher!  Where is he &#8211; I dunno, I dunno.</p>
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		<title>By: sportsdrenched</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sportsdrenched]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the actual break-down instead of the screaming from Sports Radio Guy.  I have to think the issue is more about accountability than the money for the Refs, and the NFL is certainly in their right to ask for that accountability.  

Didn&#039;t MLB fire all of their umpires over a labor dispute in the late 90&#039;s.  I forget how all that worked out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the actual break-down instead of the screaming from Sports Radio Guy.  I have to think the issue is more about accountability than the money for the Refs, and the NFL is certainly in their right to ask for that accountability.  </p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t MLB fire all of their umpires over a labor dispute in the late 90&#8242;s.  I forget how all that worked out.</p>
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		<title>By: FinFan68</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FinFan68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We’re trying hard not to pick sides on this one.  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...any more.  Almost every post on this subject (except this one) has derided the NFL and the replacement officials with little mention of blame towards the NFLRA.  You took a side and now you are beginning to see a bit more clearly.  The knee-jerk reaction of many seems to be the big corporation is being unfair to the little guy (union/associations). That is not the case on this one.  The NFLRA is paid very well already and their desire to increase pay/benefits while avoiding accountability is hypocritical and unseemly.  Just because the NFL makes a ton of money does not mean every employee involved should be compensated beyond their true value.  Walmart makes a ton of money and without cashiers no sales are made.  That doesn&#039;t mean every cashier should earn $75K/year]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We’re trying hard not to pick sides on this one.<br />
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br />
&#8230;any more.  Almost every post on this subject (except this one) has derided the NFL and the replacement officials with little mention of blame towards the NFLRA.  You took a side and now you are beginning to see a bit more clearly.  The knee-jerk reaction of many seems to be the big corporation is being unfair to the little guy (union/associations). That is not the case on this one.  The NFLRA is paid very well already and their desire to increase pay/benefits while avoiding accountability is hypocritical and unseemly.  Just because the NFL makes a ton of money does not mean every employee involved should be compensated beyond their true value.  Walmart makes a ton of money and without cashiers no sales are made.  That doesn&#8217;t mean every cashier should earn $75K/year</p>
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		<title>By: AlanSaysYo</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AlanSaysYo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How funny is it that part of the reason the NFL put the replacement officials on the field is because they want the ability to create a reserve pool to replace underperforming officials?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How funny is it that part of the reason the NFL put the replacement officials on the field is because they want the ability to create a reserve pool to replace underperforming officials?</p>
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		<title>By: theauger</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/breaking-down-the-divide-in-the-nfl-nflra-disput/#comment-1963883</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[theauger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1168900#comment-1963883</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(It’s likely an issue because the locked-out officials don’t want to have in-season accountability.)

This is pretty much what it all comes down to.

You can put the money issues on the back burner and look at this one defining issue. The NFLRA doesn&#039;t want their officials to be accountable. 

The NFL wants a system in place that would allow them to replace incompetent officials. This would also allow the NFL to constantly bring in and train new &quot;talent&quot;. The NFLRA wants to keep the status quo while also increasing their part of the money pie. 

I think most fans realize that the replacement officials have issues with the pacing of their calls and their decisiveness at which calls are made. But that the overall product outside of that is not really any different than with the NFLRA officials.

Through time and experience(that&#039;s what these guys need), the replacements will be just as effective as the NFLRA officials. And if this leads to a system where NFLRA officials are held accountable for poor performance, I am all for it. Even if this means we have to watch the replacements go through growing pains till we get there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(It’s likely an issue because the locked-out officials don’t want to have in-season accountability.)</p>
<p>This is pretty much what it all comes down to.</p>
<p>You can put the money issues on the back burner and look at this one defining issue. The NFLRA doesn&#8217;t want their officials to be accountable. </p>
<p>The NFL wants a system in place that would allow them to replace incompetent officials. This would also allow the NFL to constantly bring in and train new &#8220;talent&#8221;. The NFLRA wants to keep the status quo while also increasing their part of the money pie. </p>
<p>I think most fans realize that the replacement officials have issues with the pacing of their calls and their decisiveness at which calls are made. But that the overall product outside of that is not really any different than with the NFLRA officials.</p>
<p>Through time and experience(that&#8217;s what these guys need), the replacements will be just as effective as the NFLRA officials. And if this leads to a system where NFLRA officials are held accountable for poor performance, I am all for it. Even if this means we have to watch the replacements go through growing pains till we get there.</p>
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