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	<title>Comments on: Fan outcry won&#8217;t affect ref lockout, but coaches and GMs might</title>
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	<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/</link>
	<description>ProFootballTalk on NBCSports.com</description>
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		<title>By: exibitsman</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[exibitsman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think they are going to work this situation out before week 1.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they are going to work this situation out before week 1.</p>
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		<title>By: lostal21</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lostal21]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since Dallas GM  is the owner, he won&#039;t be complaining to himself.  

BUT, if the Cowboys lose on Sept 5th because of a blown call, Jerry will fix the problem.  He cannot afford another year like the last three - losing too much money!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Dallas GM  is the owner, he won&#8217;t be complaining to himself.  </p>
<p>BUT, if the Cowboys lose on Sept 5th because of a blown call, Jerry will fix the problem.  He cannot afford another year like the last three &#8211; losing too much money!</p>
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		<title>By: hystoracle</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964505</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hystoracle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m curious to see how long the NFL will allow the players and coaches to continue to &quot;complain&quot; about the current referees before they start issuing fines. Most leagues frown on coaches and players criticizing the game officials.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious to see how long the NFL will allow the players and coaches to continue to &#8220;complain&#8221; about the current referees before they start issuing fines. Most leagues frown on coaches and players criticizing the game officials.</p>
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		<title>By: mwindle1973</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mwindle1973]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve said this all along.  The owners are the only ones who can stop this.  They have the league front office in one ear telling them why the lockout has to happen.  Perhaps it&#039;s time their coaches, GMs, etc get in the other ear and say &quot;What if you lost a home playoff game because of a mistake by one of these replacements?&quot;  That would cost money too.  But other than that how can they convince an owner to break with the league.  But that&#039;s what&#039;ll take.  It&#039;ll take about 6-10 owners who jump ship internally and start calling for an end behind closed doors.  They are the only ones who can control what the NFL front office is doing.  Mainly because they pay them.  So they must&#039;ve had most of owners in support of this lockout to begin with.  

With that said I think what fans can do is complain to their team.  Especially if you are a season ticket holder.  As a matter of fact a season ticket holder has a basis to file a lawsuit here.  THey have degraded the product that was contracted when bought.  If I was a season ticket holder, I would make a daily call to the team and demand a partial discount/refund of some of my money, or an end to the refs lockout.  Not that I think this would make much if any difference.  Even if 1000 season ticket holders from every team did it.  But it is the one realistic way you could make the team deal with your complaints/requests and not just hang up every time you call.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this all along.  The owners are the only ones who can stop this.  They have the league front office in one ear telling them why the lockout has to happen.  Perhaps it&#8217;s time their coaches, GMs, etc get in the other ear and say &#8220;What if you lost a home playoff game because of a mistake by one of these replacements?&#8221;  That would cost money too.  But other than that how can they convince an owner to break with the league.  But that&#8217;s what&#8217;ll take.  It&#8217;ll take about 6-10 owners who jump ship internally and start calling for an end behind closed doors.  They are the only ones who can control what the NFL front office is doing.  Mainly because they pay them.  So they must&#8217;ve had most of owners in support of this lockout to begin with.  </p>
<p>With that said I think what fans can do is complain to their team.  Especially if you are a season ticket holder.  As a matter of fact a season ticket holder has a basis to file a lawsuit here.  THey have degraded the product that was contracted when bought.  If I was a season ticket holder, I would make a daily call to the team and demand a partial discount/refund of some of my money, or an end to the refs lockout.  Not that I think this would make much if any difference.  Even if 1000 season ticket holders from every team did it.  But it is the one realistic way you could make the team deal with your complaints/requests and not just hang up every time you call.</p>
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		<title>By: robgilman</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964466</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robgilman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[haha, its amusing to see the reactions of fans from other teams so concerned about these new officials. Now you know what it&#039;s been like to be a Raider fan the last 40 years. The Raiders have always known going into every game that the officials are automatically another obstacle to overcome in order to win. You can&#039;t change it, don&#039;t worry about it. As John Madden would say, &quot;just go play like hell on Sunday&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha, its amusing to see the reactions of fans from other teams so concerned about these new officials. Now you know what it&#8217;s been like to be a Raider fan the last 40 years. The Raiders have always known going into every game that the officials are automatically another obstacle to overcome in order to win. You can&#8217;t change it, don&#8217;t worry about it. As John Madden would say, &#8220;just go play like hell on Sunday&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: tpa43</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tpa43]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That may be hard considering owners told league office to issue a gag order so they don&#039;t have to pay refs benefits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That may be hard considering owners told league office to issue a gag order so they don&#8217;t have to pay refs benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: mavajo</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mavajo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;mjkelly77 says: 

Terrible calls that cost teams games … I remember when the young and mobile replacement officials cost the Lions a game by ruling that a Calvin Johnson TD was not a catch. How could anyone make such a terrible call?&quot;

----------------

And this is what dumb fans don&#039;t get:  That was the RIGHT call according to the rulebook.

Your beef is with the rulebook -- the refs don&#039;t write the rulebook.  The owners do.  The refs merely enforce those rules.

As dumb as that rule is, the refs applied it correctly.  According to the stupid rule written by the owners and their Competition Committee, that was NOT a catch.

Get your beef straight, knucklehead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;mjkelly77 says: </p>
<p>Terrible calls that cost teams games … I remember when the young and mobile replacement officials cost the Lions a game by ruling that a Calvin Johnson TD was not a catch. How could anyone make such a terrible call?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>And this is what dumb fans don&#8217;t get:  That was the RIGHT call according to the rulebook.</p>
<p>Your beef is with the rulebook &#8212; the refs don&#8217;t write the rulebook.  The owners do.  The refs merely enforce those rules.</p>
<p>As dumb as that rule is, the refs applied it correctly.  According to the stupid rule written by the owners and their Competition Committee, that was NOT a catch.</p>
<p>Get your beef straight, knucklehead.</p>
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		<title>By: ladolcevitab</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ladolcevitab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Delaying a resolution only helps the replacement refs, as they will improve with each game they call. with each mistake they make. 

NFLRA loses leverage with every passing gameday.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delaying a resolution only helps the replacement refs, as they will improve with each game they call. with each mistake they make. </p>
<p>NFLRA loses leverage with every passing gameday.</p>
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		<title>By: jbaxt</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jbaxt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know 16 teams that will hate the officials after week one.  For you not clever enough, it&#039;s the 16 teams that lose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know 16 teams that will hate the officials after week one.  For you not clever enough, it&#8217;s the 16 teams that lose.</p>
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		<title>By: clssylssy</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[clssylssy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Owners forget that the fans are the ticket buying public who allow them to make the big bucks and enjoy their comfortable and cushy life style.  At the prices for tickets, fans should DEMAND quality refereeing and the only thing that will get the message across is if fans stop buying tickets.  I have always believed that the referees should be held to the same standard as the players and if they make bad calls that are game changing, should be fined accordingly.  With all the money that is riding on football games each week, quality refereeing that is above question should be a priority for the Owners as well as the league.  Referees are responsible for what happens on the field and having referees who call plays correctly and honestly would help &quot;clean up&quot; any question of impropriety such as alleged &quot;bounties&quot; &quot;pay for injury&quot; charges.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Owners forget that the fans are the ticket buying public who allow them to make the big bucks and enjoy their comfortable and cushy life style.  At the prices for tickets, fans should DEMAND quality refereeing and the only thing that will get the message across is if fans stop buying tickets.  I have always believed that the referees should be held to the same standard as the players and if they make bad calls that are game changing, should be fined accordingly.  With all the money that is riding on football games each week, quality refereeing that is above question should be a priority for the Owners as well as the league.  Referees are responsible for what happens on the field and having referees who call plays correctly and honestly would help &#8220;clean up&#8221; any question of impropriety such as alleged &#8220;bounties&#8221; &#8220;pay for injury&#8221; charges.</p>
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		<title>By: edhochulisbiceps</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[edhochulisbiceps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some calls go your way, some don&#039;t. Either set of officials are going to wind up screwing somebody.

Get rid of replay reviews. This game is getting to be almost as slow as baseball with all of the video reviews.

Get rid of all the turnover rules and use just one: if the ball comes out  before the whistle  blows, regardless of how it happens, it&#039;s a turnover that is either recovered or lost. 

All of this rules b.s. during games is making me sick. I mean, who the **** wants to hear some ex head of officiating going on and on about interpretations of the rules? Go **** yourself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some calls go your way, some don&#8217;t. Either set of officials are going to wind up screwing somebody.</p>
<p>Get rid of replay reviews. This game is getting to be almost as slow as baseball with all of the video reviews.</p>
<p>Get rid of all the turnover rules and use just one: if the ball comes out  before the whistle  blows, regardless of how it happens, it&#8217;s a turnover that is either recovered or lost. </p>
<p>All of this rules b.s. during games is making me sick. I mean, who the **** wants to hear some ex head of officiating going on and on about interpretations of the rules? Go **** yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Getoffmylawn!</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Getoffmylawn!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I were a player it would bother me to no end that these newbies are calling the game. As a fan I hope this gets resolved quickly and properly. It does bother me that a lot of us fans appear to understand the rules better than those wearing the striped shirts on the field.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were a player it would bother me to no end that these newbies are calling the game. As a fan I hope this gets resolved quickly and properly. It does bother me that a lot of us fans appear to understand the rules better than those wearing the striped shirts on the field.</p>
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		<title>By: jaketdogg</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964326</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jaketdogg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As long as regular NFL people are working the replay booth, I cant see how the replacements could be any worse after some experience to get used to the game speed of the NFL. In fact, it could be a breath of fresh air since its impossible to catch everything]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as regular NFL people are working the replay booth, I cant see how the replacements could be any worse after some experience to get used to the game speed of the NFL. In fact, it could be a breath of fresh air since its impossible to catch everything</p>
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		<title>By: nflfollower</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nflfollower]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s because there is no fan outcry.   There was plenty of fan outcry last year as I recall, and all we got was mike pereira urinating on our legs and telling us it was raining during every fox broadcast.   Trying to convince us what we saw with our own eyes wasn&#039;t the case.  

 Fact is, officiating is difficult and they all make mistakes that look blatant on slow motion high def replays.   Originals and replacements.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s because there is no fan outcry.   There was plenty of fan outcry last year as I recall, and all we got was mike pereira urinating on our legs and telling us it was raining during every fox broadcast.   Trying to convince us what we saw with our own eyes wasn&#8217;t the case.  </p>
<p> Fact is, officiating is difficult and they all make mistakes that look blatant on slow motion high def replays.   Originals and replacements.</p>
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		<title>By: giantsfanlewis</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[giantsfanlewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@sevenwords

The new York giants lost to the packers last season due to bad calls. Bad calls were the only reason the packers scored a single touchdown in the post season as well. The part time refs make horrendous calls all the time. 

To anyone talkig about the replacement refs not knowing the rules, sometimes the part time refs make horrible calls to. Ask lions fans how they feel about the refing against the saints last year. Ask the ravens fans how they felt after the refs gave the pats the game in 07 to help keep the perfect season alive. Ask the Viking fans from 09 who watched the refs help the saints make the superbowl because katrina was all the talking heads talked about all season long.  

The NFL wants these refs to be held accountable for these calls so the part timers can&#039;t ruin the integrity of the game pile they have been doing the last few years. To make it a competition for who gets to keep these part time jobs that pay 5 times the average fans salery for not even half the work. 

The part time refs don&#039;t just want tons of money but the freedom to not have to worry about getting fired for bad calls because they know they make. 

About injury&#039;s, when has a flag been thrown for a helmet to helmet hit the play before it happens? When has a ref stepped in from of a defended who was about to grab a players collar from behind? How good were the refs at stopping rothlesburger from getting punched in the face or suh from stomping on the packers lineman. When have the refs helped mike vick stay healthy for a whole season? Imjurys are gonna happen no matter what refs are working the game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sevenwords</p>
<p>The new York giants lost to the packers last season due to bad calls. Bad calls were the only reason the packers scored a single touchdown in the post season as well. The part time refs make horrendous calls all the time. </p>
<p>To anyone talkig about the replacement refs not knowing the rules, sometimes the part time refs make horrible calls to. Ask lions fans how they feel about the refing against the saints last year. Ask the ravens fans how they felt after the refs gave the pats the game in 07 to help keep the perfect season alive. Ask the Viking fans from 09 who watched the refs help the saints make the superbowl because katrina was all the talking heads talked about all season long.  </p>
<p>The NFL wants these refs to be held accountable for these calls so the part timers can&#8217;t ruin the integrity of the game pile they have been doing the last few years. To make it a competition for who gets to keep these part time jobs that pay 5 times the average fans salery for not even half the work. </p>
<p>The part time refs don&#8217;t just want tons of money but the freedom to not have to worry about getting fired for bad calls because they know they make. </p>
<p>About injury&#8217;s, when has a flag been thrown for a helmet to helmet hit the play before it happens? When has a ref stepped in from of a defended who was about to grab a players collar from behind? How good were the refs at stopping rothlesburger from getting punched in the face or suh from stomping on the packers lineman. When have the refs helped mike vick stay healthy for a whole season? Imjurys are gonna happen no matter what refs are working the game.</p>
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		<title>By: txbossman</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964281</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[txbossman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Being a fan of a team that&#039;s not the Patriots or Steelers, I can tell you it&#039;s less likely than more likely that the refs lose us game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a fan of a team that&#8217;s not the Patriots or Steelers, I can tell you it&#8217;s less likely than more likely that the refs lose us game.</p>
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		<title>By: capesquad</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[capesquad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pastabelly says:
Aug 30, 2012 1:13 PM
The confusion among officials in the Patriots-Giants game last night was almost comical. But with Belichick and Coughlin treating the game as meaningless (which is what makes both of them two of the sharpest coaches in the league), they probably didn’t care and neither should we.

--
I think Coughlin and Belichick cared plenty about the officiating. Belichick is one of the few who has been willing to speak up in support of the professional refs. 

I was on the owner&#039;s side when they locked out the player&#039;s... this time they simply wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pastabelly says:<br />
Aug 30, 2012 1:13 PM<br />
The confusion among officials in the Patriots-Giants game last night was almost comical. But with Belichick and Coughlin treating the game as meaningless (which is what makes both of them two of the sharpest coaches in the league), they probably didn’t care and neither should we.</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
I think Coughlin and Belichick cared plenty about the officiating. Belichick is one of the few who has been willing to speak up in support of the professional refs. </p>
<p>I was on the owner&#8217;s side when they locked out the player&#8217;s&#8230; this time they simply wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: eagleswin</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eagleswin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The balanced article which explained the differences between what the refs wanted and what the NFL was offering didn&#039;t last long on the front page.  

Let&#039;s not forget, everyone who is currently whining about the replacement refs, that one of the things the NFL wants to do is to hold the REFS accountable and to be able to the replace them if they perform poorly.

The refs don&#039;t want that and it&#039;s one of the main reasons they are holding out.  They want to be appointed for life without being held to a standard.

Short term pain for long term gain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The balanced article which explained the differences between what the refs wanted and what the NFL was offering didn&#8217;t last long on the front page.  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget, everyone who is currently whining about the replacement refs, that one of the things the NFL wants to do is to hold the REFS accountable and to be able to the replace them if they perform poorly.</p>
<p>The refs don&#8217;t want that and it&#8217;s one of the main reasons they are holding out.  They want to be appointed for life without being held to a standard.</p>
<p>Short term pain for long term gain.</p>
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		<title>By: capesquad</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964259</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[capesquad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am (yes) flabbergasted that this many fans don&#039;t get how bad these replacement refs will be for the game. Last night the Pats and Giants players were openly LAUGHING at them and the level of cluelessness displayed during the game. Bill B. looked across the field at Tom C. and they shared a look that translated roughly to &quot;Can you believe this?&quot;
When your teams star goes down because penalties aren&#039;t being called (or seen), or a game goes the wrong way because the speed of the game is WAY too fast for the replacement refs...  you&#039;ll be less supportive of ownership not spending what is essentially chicken feed to them. People will wake up next Wednesday when the games count.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am (yes) flabbergasted that this many fans don&#8217;t get how bad these replacement refs will be for the game. Last night the Pats and Giants players were openly LAUGHING at them and the level of cluelessness displayed during the game. Bill B. looked across the field at Tom C. and they shared a look that translated roughly to &#8220;Can you believe this?&#8221;<br />
When your teams star goes down because penalties aren&#8217;t being called (or seen), or a game goes the wrong way because the speed of the game is WAY too fast for the replacement refs&#8230;  you&#8217;ll be less supportive of ownership not spending what is essentially chicken feed to them. People will wake up next Wednesday when the games count.</p>
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		<title>By: 5niner</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964252</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[5niner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Love the comments from folks above who call you crazy and ignorant if you don&#039;t agree with them.  It&#039;s almost like they feel the other refs were great. Yes, it&#039;s a bit frustrating that they take longer to confirm calls, but at least they aren&#039;t as arrogant as the normal officials to always think they are correct. 

Mike Pereira actually said most of the calls are subjective and calls will be missed by  both sets of refs, that his beef was more on the administration of the game, i.e. marking off the correct # of yards, clock mgmt, ball placement that sort of thing. That I agree with. But all we hear are the talking heads talking the integrity of the game or potentially injuries. Many posters have accurately noted that a penalty would happen post injury so that&#039;s not a valid argument. I&#039;m not sure what this integrity of the game argument is all about cause I&#039;ve seen Tom Brady and other high profile QBs get the benefit of the roughing the passer call and pass interference call that were simply horrible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the comments from folks above who call you crazy and ignorant if you don&#8217;t agree with them.  It&#8217;s almost like they feel the other refs were great. Yes, it&#8217;s a bit frustrating that they take longer to confirm calls, but at least they aren&#8217;t as arrogant as the normal officials to always think they are correct. </p>
<p>Mike Pereira actually said most of the calls are subjective and calls will be missed by  both sets of refs, that his beef was more on the administration of the game, i.e. marking off the correct # of yards, clock mgmt, ball placement that sort of thing. That I agree with. But all we hear are the talking heads talking the integrity of the game or potentially injuries. Many posters have accurately noted that a penalty would happen post injury so that&#8217;s not a valid argument. I&#8217;m not sure what this integrity of the game argument is all about cause I&#8217;ve seen Tom Brady and other high profile QBs get the benefit of the roughing the passer call and pass interference call that were simply horrible.</p>
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		<title>By: snaponrules</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[snaponrules]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jbythebay says: 
Aug 30, 2012 12:31 PM 
but what if a terrible call wind you a game? any complaints then?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess we will have to &quot;ax&quot; the team after a call winds them a game. Maybe days wills feels different bouts it den.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jbythebay says:<br />
Aug 30, 2012 12:31 PM<br />
but what if a terrible call wind you a game? any complaints then?</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>I guess we will have to &#8220;ax&#8221; the team after a call winds them a game. Maybe days wills feels different bouts it den.</p>
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		<title>By: vetdana</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vetdana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hawkster12 says:
Aug 30, 2012 11:56 AM
Pay all the money for season tickets, but have no voice. Pay full price for Pre Season tickets, but have no voice. When do fans have a voice in the quality of officiating when they are paying for the game, stadium, etc. What happened to the “fan experience” being so important?

Fan Experience ?...the fan has one reason only for his existence......to pay.pay,pay ? ...Nothing will ever happen on behalf of the fans...unless they close their wallets and stop paying !...and the NFL is betting we will NEVER do this !]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hawkster12 says:<br />
Aug 30, 2012 11:56 AM<br />
Pay all the money for season tickets, but have no voice. Pay full price for Pre Season tickets, but have no voice. When do fans have a voice in the quality of officiating when they are paying for the game, stadium, etc. What happened to the “fan experience” being so important?</p>
<p>Fan Experience ?&#8230;the fan has one reason only for his existence&#8230;&#8230;to pay.pay,pay ? &#8230;Nothing will ever happen on behalf of the fans&#8230;unless they close their wallets and stop paying !&#8230;and the NFL is betting we will NEVER do this !</p>
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		<title>By: matt2calvin</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[matt2calvin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jbythebay says:Aug 30, 2012 12:31 PM 

but what if a terrible call wind you a game? any complaints then?


NO!  None at all.   The regular refs cost us games last year - FACT.

You do realize that for every game the refs cost us, those same refs HELP someone else.  Not every call goes against your team, half will be in your favor.  The new refs will be as good as the bad old refs.

The old refs were offered $189,000.00 for working 18 days - and they said &quot;no&quot;.   I don&#039;t feel sorry for them at all.   They had their chance, now it is time for someone else.  This is free market at it&#039;s finest.  You don&#039;t want to work for this salary, fine - have a nice day.   Next...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jbythebay says:Aug 30, 2012 12:31 PM </p>
<p>but what if a terrible call wind you a game? any complaints then?</p>
<p>NO!  None at all.   The regular refs cost us games last year &#8211; FACT.</p>
<p>You do realize that for every game the refs cost us, those same refs HELP someone else.  Not every call goes against your team, half will be in your favor.  The new refs will be as good as the bad old refs.</p>
<p>The old refs were offered $189,000.00 for working 18 days &#8211; and they said &#8220;no&#8221;.   I don&#8217;t feel sorry for them at all.   They had their chance, now it is time for someone else.  This is free market at it&#8217;s finest.  You don&#8217;t want to work for this salary, fine &#8211; have a nice day.   Next&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bearsstillsuck</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964218</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bearsstillsuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m certainly not complaining.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m certainly not complaining.</p>
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		<title>By: pastabelly</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pastabelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The confusion among officials in the Patriots-Giants game last night was almost comical.  But with Belichick and Coughlin treating the game as meaningless (which is what makes both of them two of the sharpest coaches in the league), they probably didn&#039;t care and neither should we.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The confusion among officials in the Patriots-Giants game last night was almost comical.  But with Belichick and Coughlin treating the game as meaningless (which is what makes both of them two of the sharpest coaches in the league), they probably didn&#8217;t care and neither should we.</p>
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		<title>By: draftazoid</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[draftazoid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No one really cares who the Referees are. I would like to see one fan say he is not going to watch his team play in week 1 because of the replacement ref&#039;s.
It ain&#039;t happening.
Come back to work you part time employees. I am hoping some of these replacement Ref&#039;s do so well that they get rid of some of the lousy ones from last year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one really cares who the Referees are. I would like to see one fan say he is not going to watch his team play in week 1 because of the replacement ref&#8217;s.<br />
It ain&#8217;t happening.<br />
Come back to work you part time employees. I am hoping some of these replacement Ref&#8217;s do so well that they get rid of some of the lousy ones from last year.</p>
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		<title>By: pastabelly</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964211</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pastabelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[themrirrelevant says: 
Aug 30, 2012 12:25 PM 
They will get the deal done. Everyone knows there cant be an NFL season without Ed Hochuli’s biceps. Its impossible. Literally.

===============================

Hochuli is a big time litigation partner at an Arizona law firm. He is one official that you know is not in it for the money.  Judging by the way he calls games, it&#039;s a pure ego trip for him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>themrirrelevant says:<br />
Aug 30, 2012 12:25 PM<br />
They will get the deal done. Everyone knows there cant be an NFL season without Ed Hochuli’s biceps. Its impossible. Literally.</p>
<p>===============================</p>
<p>Hochuli is a big time litigation partner at an Arizona law firm. He is one official that you know is not in it for the money.  Judging by the way he calls games, it&#8217;s a pure ego trip for him.</p>
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		<title>By: babyjesus69</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[babyjesus69]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We need people like Jim Harbaugh to keep on NOT being quiet about the replacement refs horrible job!  Eat that Harbaugh haters!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need people like Jim Harbaugh to keep on NOT being quiet about the replacement refs horrible job!  Eat that Harbaugh haters!!!</p>
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		<title>By: iced107</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[iced107]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some people are holding the replacements to a higher standard that the NFLRA officials. This is laughable.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Right, because expecting officials to get the calls correct and basic knowledge of the rules is laughable....

I&#039;ll tell you what&#039;s laughable.. Defending refs who call a touchback when a ball is clearly down at the 5... or letting the clock run out at the end of a half on a defensive penalty..and trust me, the list goes on.. 

The rate at which the other stuff happens is what&#039;s ridiculious (non calls, bad calls,etc.) - I never questioned that it happens, just the rate at which it does ( as it has been echo&#039;ed by players, gm&#039;s, coaches,and analysts around the league)...

but hey, they don&#039;t know what they&#039;re talking about right? Because it&#039;s just &quot;laughable&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people are holding the replacements to a higher standard that the NFLRA officials. This is laughable.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Right, because expecting officials to get the calls correct and basic knowledge of the rules is laughable&#8230;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll tell you what&#8217;s laughable.. Defending refs who call a touchback when a ball is clearly down at the 5&#8230; or letting the clock run out at the end of a half on a defensive penalty..and trust me, the list goes on.. </p>
<p>The rate at which the other stuff happens is what&#8217;s ridiculious (non calls, bad calls,etc.) &#8211; I never questioned that it happens, just the rate at which it does ( as it has been echo&#8217;ed by players, gm&#8217;s, coaches,and analysts around the league)&#8230;</p>
<p>but hey, they don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re talking about right? Because it&#8217;s just &#8220;laughable&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: thundersnacker</title>
		<link>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/30/fan-outcry-wont-affect-ref-lockout-but-coaches-and-gms-might/#comment-1964202</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thundersnacker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=1169790#comment-1964202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder how the networks feel about having to keep the cameras on the refs, while they confer on where to spot a ball or even the specifics of the penalty, when the network could go to commercial and make money. 
Take what happened in the second quarter of the Pats/Giants game last night, when it took, seemingly, 6 minutes for the officials to call two penalties on a  special teams play and place the ball, calling the incorrect penalties twice, explaining the mistakes to each coach twice, and all the while incapable of explaining anything to the fans. 
Coughlin and Belichick were looking at each other from across the field as if to say &quot;WTF is going on here?&quot;
These guys definitely hurt the product. I think it&#039;s the networks that could have more power than anyone else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how the networks feel about having to keep the cameras on the refs, while they confer on where to spot a ball or even the specifics of the penalty, when the network could go to commercial and make money.<br />
Take what happened in the second quarter of the Pats/Giants game last night, when it took, seemingly, 6 minutes for the officials to call two penalties on a  special teams play and place the ball, calling the incorrect penalties twice, explaining the mistakes to each coach twice, and all the while incapable of explaining anything to the fans.<br />
Coughlin and Belichick were looking at each other from across the field as if to say &#8220;WTF is going on here?&#8221;<br />
These guys definitely hurt the product. I think it&#8217;s the networks that could have more power than anyone else.</p>
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