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Robert Kraft: Brady doesn’t need another ring to be the best ever

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Patriots quarterback Tom Brady needs another Super Bowl ring to tie the record for the most Super Bowl wins for a quarterback. But Patriots owner Robert Kraft argues that another Super Bowl ring is not a missing piece in Brady’s legacy.

Kraft said that Brady, with his three Super Bowl rings, is already better than four-time winner Joe Montana. (Kraft presumably thinks that it goes without saying that Brady is better than the other four-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback, Terry Bradshaw.)

I think that Tommy, with all due respect, is better than Joe Montana,” Kraft told Albert Breer of NFL Network. “I know that’s a leap, but I really think he might already be the best of all time.”

Brady declined to offer an opinion of Kraft’s assessment.

“Well, that’s my boss. And I love Mr. Kraft for a lot of reasons, and we have a great relationship, and a great friendship,” Brady said. “He’s been through a lot the last few years. There’d be nothing more exciting for all us players than to win for him, because it means a lot to him.”

But whether Brady wins another title for him or not, Kraft thinks Brady is already the best ever.

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124 Responses to “Robert Kraft: Brady doesn’t need another ring to be the best ever”
  1. joechianese says: Aug 31, 2012 9:57 AM

    If he doesn’t win another that means he lost his last two super bowls… ” Best Evers” don’t do that

  2. jessieboom says: Aug 31, 2012 9:57 AM

    He’s right, he needs more than one.

  3. towniesman says: Aug 31, 2012 9:57 AM

    a great player an even a better person.We in Beantown are very fortunate to have Tom as our quarterback for all these yrs.No argument here Mr Kraft

  4. mcaismyfavoritebeastie says: Aug 31, 2012 9:58 AM

    I die a little inside everytime people start comparing Brady to Montana. You could argue that Brady only has one title without Adam Vinatieri.

  5. superross says: Aug 31, 2012 9:58 AM

    He’s no Marc Sanchez!

  6. herlies says: Aug 31, 2012 10:00 AM

    Brady “matching” Montana with his 4th championship is as silly as the idea of Kobe “matching” Jordan with 6.

    Just 1 more and they will belong at the same table!

    Uh huh… sure they will…

  7. niners816 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:00 AM

    Pretty sure I have something to say about that.

    -Joe Montana

  8. floriosfuglykid2 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:00 AM

    Whew, it’s a good thing he doesn’t.

  9. truthfactory says: Aug 31, 2012 10:00 AM

    What elevates Brady in a lot of fans minds is his post-season success. But I don’t know how anyone can ignore the fact that he was like 12-1 in the post-season with spygate, and like 6-4 without… and his QB rating has also dropped dramatically in the post-season since we found out about spygate.

    I’m not saying he’s not a great QB, but when the Ace up your sleave is “well he has 3 Superbowls”… well we have to look at how you got those superbowls. Cheating was a big part of it. And if they didn’t think it was that important or beneficial, then why did they continue to take the risk and do it even after the league had sent out a warning about it that very same year they got caught… Obviously they thought the reward was greater than the risk of getting caught.

    It’s not fair that he had such a great advantage in knowing what defensive plays were coming on a given snap during those years, while other “great” QB’s that he’s compared to had to disect a defense on their own.

    Great QB for sure and fun as hell to watch, but the cheating is a definate stain that won’t go away just because Pats fans really really want it to…

  10. poridge1214 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:01 AM

    The odd thing is, Brady has put up better numbers in the years since he won his 3rd Super Bowl. In those SB years, his numbers were average, but he was a clutch SB QB. Since then his numbers have been otherworldly, but lacks that next SB title. If he wins another SB with the great numbers he’s now putting together, there wouldn’t be a question.

  11. rebel21das says: Aug 31, 2012 10:01 AM

    I agree Montana always had Jerry Rice, tell me that didn’t help having the best wide receiver in NFL history. The first year Brady had Moss he threw 50 touchdowns. I think that says it all right there.

  12. greymares says: Aug 31, 2012 10:01 AM

    he can win 5 more rings and won’t make top 5

  13. scobbalobba says: Aug 31, 2012 10:01 AM

    With all due respect to Mr Kraft, Brady would be lucky to be good enough to wipe the sweat off Joe Montanna’s jock strap….Montanna was/is the best ever – End of discussion

  14. rcampore says: Aug 31, 2012 10:01 AM

    Obviously Kraft is going to say that because this is his QB. While Tom is up there as the best of all time, he still has not surpassed Montana in my opinion.

  15. skoobyfl says: Aug 31, 2012 10:02 AM

    * No more rings when the camera’s stopped rolling.

  16. terripet says: Aug 31, 2012 10:02 AM

    He can’t beat Eli.

  17. homelanddefense says: Aug 31, 2012 10:05 AM

    He is in the discussion, but the discussion really is like arguing about which flavor of ice cream is best. It comes down to opinions.

    But if he wins another superbowl, in which he carries the team, it would go a long way.

  18. sj39 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:06 AM

    Right, he just needs a good video man like he used to have when he was getting to and winning those super bowls. Kraft knows it, everyone knows it.

  19. mikejd12 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:07 AM

    Nope he dosent Peyton is better

  20. lrt79 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:07 AM

    Playing for a team that wasn’t caught cheating redhanded might help too.

  21. jlee2081 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:08 AM

    Losing in another Superbowl won’t help him either

  22. rpiotr01 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:09 AM

    You can’t rank the great QBs of the NFL. Too many different styles, playing in different eras.

    To me there are Pantheon Quarterbacks – guys who were the best of their time and will be mentioned along with the best who ever played the position for as long as the game goes on.

    Brady is a Pantheon Quarterback, simple as that. He and Peyton Manning are 1A and 1B for best of the era. That’s good enough.

  23. rc33 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:11 AM

    Even Pats fans think he needs another ring. His resume is stacked and measures up w/ just about anyone but best ever? Right now?
    Nope.

  24. tritz32 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:11 AM

    You mean the guy who hasn’t won a Super Bowl since Spygate? The guy who was gifted a Super Bowl chance after he lost to the Raiders? I’d like to see him win at least one A.S. (after Spygate) Mr. Kraft.

  25. jvkaimak says: Aug 31, 2012 10:11 AM

    Def not the best ever..top 5-10

  26. areyoudue says: Aug 31, 2012 10:11 AM

    I think Ricki Lander is starting to affect Kraft’s thinking.

  27. todd49401 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:12 AM

    Montana and Bradshaw never lost a superbowl. And there was never any doubt about the validity of their championships. Who is this guy trying to fool?

  28. buffalobills2012 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:12 AM

    As and avid Buffalo Bills fan I HATE Tom Brady. BUT without a doubt, with the level of talent that Brady plays against in comparison to Montana, there is NO DOUBT Brady is the best ever. Kids play year round and have waaaay more practice, supplements and high quality coaching then 25 years ago….this is the same reason Lebron is better than MJ….jus sayin. Go Bills.

  29. bosspower says: Aug 31, 2012 10:15 AM

    I can not say that Tom Brady or Peyton Manning is Better than Joe Montana, I never saw Joe Montana lose a Superbowl. I saw Brady, and P Manning lose SB. To Me if U lose Bowls U are out of the G.O.A..T runnings. Brees, Rodgers, and E Manning are now the front runners for the Montana challenge. Brady is better than Elway tho.

  30. todd49401 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:16 AM

    Follow up- Belichick seems to be a great coach, minus the cheating, and Peyton only lost his superbowl because of horrendous coaching against the Saints. Peyton is the best…just needs to prove it by winning at least one more.

  31. puckthefatriots says: Aug 31, 2012 10:16 AM

    Having great defenses that help you win Superbowls does not make you the best ever. If that’s the way you think, you are simple minded.

  32. sod61 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:17 AM

    One of the best of his era, just like Montana was. Cannot say one is better than the other as rules were totally different. Meaningless dribble because they are both all-time greats.

  33. areyoudue says: Aug 31, 2012 10:17 AM

    rebel21das — Rice didn’t become “Jerry Rice” until 1986. Montana was already an 8 year veteran by then.

  34. bordner says: Aug 31, 2012 10:17 AM

    He is very, very good.

    He’s much better than anyone would have ever expected.

    But best ever? Not by a long shot.

  35. rebel21das says: Aug 31, 2012 10:18 AM

    People the spygate thing was over blown, it was legal the year before, give me a break plenty of NFL coaches have said if you didn’t change you signals week in and week out you deserve to lose. Just look at how the Saints are being punished compared to the Patriots. Sad excuses to make fans feel better about the Patriots walking all over their team for years.

  36. ftcsubs says: Aug 31, 2012 10:20 AM

    Dont mean to bring up obvious, the elephant in the room. is spygate, I also think brady has benefitted from an outstanding Oline. Brady does not do well when he is getting smacked around. any QB in this league can make passes whne they have the time. but when youu ge to brady early he is a scared girl back there, and throws all his passes early. bready in my book isnt even in the top 10 of all time. you put brady behind a pourus line he would be dismal. if you placed him behind the steller O Line he would be less than 500. I think the success of New England has been their O line, and of course spygate. they have not won one since. I think they will be 9&7 looking on the outside of playoffs this year their O line is becoming suspect and brady has happy feet. and if Brady goes down who do they have?

  37. emosnar says: Aug 31, 2012 10:20 AM

    How is he the best ever when Eli owns him?

  38. adderalljack says: Aug 31, 2012 10:21 AM

    Brady fan here, but Joe is right- “best evers” don’t lose their last two, especially to the same team. Definitely in the Top 5 for the Super Bowl era, though.

  39. jacunn2000 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:21 AM

    1. Tony Romo
    2. Payton Manning/Tom Brady
    3. Joe Montana
    4. John Elway
    5. Staubach
    6. Unitas

    I might be mistaken on number 1??

  40. jpthepatsfan says: Aug 31, 2012 10:22 AM

    Tom Brady already appeared in more super bowls than Joe Montana, and still has a good 3 or 4 more years left. He already has more touchdown passes. And will pass Joe in passing yards and probowl appearances this year. Tom is better end of story

  41. bullcharger says: Aug 31, 2012 10:24 AM

    Montana has 4 Super Bowls. Brady needs 1 more to be truly considered and 2 more to be the greatest of all time.

    He could have had it already, buy he lost 2. Simple as that.

    That said, if he gets one more, I think he would already be the GOAT over Montana having been to 6 Super Bowls.

    Most people give Montana credit for going undefeated in Super Bowls but he lost 3 championship games while Brady has only lost 1. Better to make it to the big game than to lose in the game before. If you count championship games and super bowls together, Brady and Montana are both 8-3. Montana also was playing in the better conference in that era. The NFC championship game was more like the real Super Bowl.

    Peyton Manning is still in the discussion if he wins 1 or 2 more. Rodgers has a chance at it also now, and is probably the most like Montana with his scrambling ability and throwing on the run.

  42. LoCoSu@%s says: Aug 31, 2012 10:32 AM

    Brady is great but Montana is the greatest. Never failed in the clutch,

  43. flash1283 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:33 AM

    scobbalobba says: Aug 31, 2012 10:01 AM

    With all due respect to Mr Kraft, Brady would be lucky to be good enough to wipe the sweat off Joe Montanna’s jock strap….Montanna was/is the best ever – End of discussion

    Steve Young disagrees with you.

    Again I always find it amusing when some jobber sitting behind a computer thinks he knows more than a former HOF player (KEY WORD “PLAYER”)

    Not saying he’s better but when someone Like Steve Young says Brady is the best thing he’s seen since Montana or he reminds me of Montana, I think he may know a little better than any of us as to what he’s talking about.

    Then they want to say “well he wouldn’t have those 3 rings without the kicker or the defense.

    Montana not only had the best WR’s in the NFL he also always had a very good running game and a very good defense.
    Those 49ers teams where loaded with HOF players.

  44. travishenryskid says: Aug 31, 2012 10:34 AM

    As someone who outwardly despises Brady and the Pats, I agree with Kraft. Brady is the best to ever play the position, probably the best football player ever. I’ll never admit it to my friends, but it is a joy to have watched his career.

  45. rc33 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:34 AM

    You could argue that Brady only has one title without Adam Vinatieri.
    —————————–
    Dumbest argument imaginable. Should Montana take a hit as well for playing with the greatest WR ever? Maybe that should be a demerit because no other QB’s had Jerry Rice in his prime.
    It all falls under the same “if” criteria.
    “If” Welker makes that catch in last years SB and “if” Tyree’s Hail Mary doesn’t take place Brady could also be 5-0.

  46. cuse6468 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:39 AM

    What have you done for me lately.

  47. infectorman says: Aug 31, 2012 10:43 AM

    While I agree that Montana wears the crown and probably always will.
    Brady, Manning, Bradshaw, Elway, Starr, Unitas, Favre, Marino and many others suitors never had a player who caught 1,539 receptions for 22,895 yards and 197 TD’s over a career…

  48. doctorfootball says: Aug 31, 2012 10:44 AM

    Brady is one of the best ever, no doubt. He’s just not THE BEST EVER. He’s top 5

  49. jiggybone says: Aug 31, 2012 10:47 AM

    Tom Brady is my favorite QB in the league, but if he doesnt win a 4th SB then he’ll never be consider the best ever. Two other Men hold the title as “Kings of the Rings” and that Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw. If cool Tom really wants to be the true kings he really needs 5 SB rings and right now he only has 3.

  50. bostonhasrealhockey says: Aug 31, 2012 10:50 AM

    So going undefeated winning two afc titles and throwing 50 tds in a single season since spygate means nothing to you spygate trolls?

  51. stew48 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:50 AM

    Great demonstration of loyalty and devotion. My deepest sympathy to Kraft for his senility attack.

  52. vernonwillis says: Aug 31, 2012 10:52 AM

    Lets be real here.

    Brady couldn’t handle not even 5 minutes with the defenses of the 80’s. All these freaking protecting QBs rules were not in place back then.

    Sorry Patriots!!!!!!!!! Can not compare

  53. rebel21das says: Aug 31, 2012 10:56 AM

    areyoudue says:— Rice didn’t become “Jerry Rice” until 1986. Montana was already an 8 year veteran by then.

    Although he struggled at times, Rice impressed the NFL in his rookie season for the 49ers in 1985, especially after a 10-catch, 241-yard game against the Los Angeles Rams in December. For that rookie season, he recorded 49 catches for 927 yards, averaging 18.9 yards per catch and was named NFC Offensive Rookie of the Year.

  54. sacpete1 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:57 AM

    I’m a Patriots fan and have been since the days of Steve Grogan but more importantly I love the game of football and while I think its silly to debate the best QB of all time, Brady, Manning, Montana, Unitas, etc. can all be grouped into their own category and just left at that.
    For those that reference Spygate at every oppportunity, isn’t that getting old? Could you have an original thought? I guess you’re the same ones that still scream “Get in the hole” when Tiger tees off on a Par 4 and think its funny.

  55. all4patriots says: Aug 31, 2012 10:57 AM

    The mantra “Montana never lost in the Super Bowl” keeps coming up, but what about the fact that…

    Montana lost 3 times in the conference championship game, vs. once for Brady?

    Is it worse to advance farther?
    Of course not!

    It’s close, but in the Super Bowl Era those two are #1 & #2 in some order.

    One more ring for TB would pretty much end all debate, though

  56. jolink653 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:57 AM

    Does Tom Brady play defense? Because he put his team in position to win in both of the last Super Bowls only to have the defense squander it…If Welker catches that pass the game is over…There’s only so much he can do in terms of influencing a game and I think he’s definitely the best of all time…Joe Montana had the single best receiver in history whereas Brady had average wide receivers the first half of his career and only got Randy Moss and Welker in 2007 and look what he’s turned Welker into…He carried the 2006 team to within a quarter of the Super Bowl with Reche Caldwell as his #1 receiver…And all the people saying those Super Bowls were due to Vinatieri: Who got the team down the field to put Vinatieri in position to hit those kicks? He missed his first 3 kicks in the Super Bowl against the Panthers and Brady still gave him another chance for the win…Along with Brees he broke Marino’s 18 year passing yards record, holds the single season touchdown record, most completions without a pick record, only unanimous league MVP, and the only player to lead his team to the first 16-0 regular season record…His resume speaks for itself and he’s #1

  57. bostonhasrealhockey says: Aug 31, 2012 11:02 AM

    Right on jolink

  58. rpmcanes says: Aug 31, 2012 11:05 AM

    Top 5? Yes. GOAT? No. During the SB wins he had a great defense to bail him out.

  59. marcuswelby70 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:06 AM

    mcaismyfavoritebeastie says:
    Aug 31, 2012 9:58 AM
    I die a little inside everytime people start comparing Brady to Montana. You could argue that Brady only has one title without Adam Vinatieri.

    ————————————
    You could also argue Montana had the advantage of a monster defense that never got the credit it deserved!

  60. truthfactory says: Aug 31, 2012 11:08 AM

    Sorry, but I dont give individual credit for TEAM acomplishments.

    Brady threw 3 INTs in the 2007 AFC Chmpshp game, but his TEAM bailed him out and made it to the Superbowl… Samething with last years AFC cpshp game against Batimore…. BAD performance even by his own admission, but his TEAM pulled through and won.

    There are way too many variables to decide greatest of all time status based on superbowl wins. The QBs are only responsible for moving the ball and scoring points. Sometimes doing so can lead to wins, but if your D and special teams are bad it can also be a loss…

    There are many greats and there is no clear answer on this one… To each his own…

  61. gjags12 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:10 AM

    Peyton’s still better then Brady for this era, superbowls or not. All you have to look at is how their team performs when they’re not there. The Pats still made it to the playoffs and the Colts went 2-14.

  62. lambeaurules says: Aug 31, 2012 11:11 AM

    Brady is a great QB, but personally I would take Aaron Rodgers over him any day of the week in ANY game situation. I am obviously bias since I am a GB fan. Rodgers is way more mobile, more accurate on the run, and has a stronger arm. I like Brady but best of all time!? Give me Montana, even Young, and good ole Bart Starr, Unitas,…etc. The list goes on! As another poster said, great in his era and that is it. Of all time there are way too many names to overcome to earn that title.

  63. gacoltfan says: Aug 31, 2012 11:12 AM

    People buy into the SB ring argument way too much. Would anyone dispute the fact he is a better QB from 2006 – 2011 than he was from 2001- 2005? Fact is they had a better team.

    I won’t even give my opinion on Brady vs. Montana vs. Peyton vs. Elway. Frankly it’s a matter of taste and personal bias, but to base in strictly on SB record is absurb. It’s like people don’t understand that defense and special teams are a factor in whether a team wins or loses.

  64. gjags12 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:12 AM

    Sorry, almost made it to the playoffs

  65. truthfactory says: Aug 31, 2012 11:18 AM

    jolink653 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:57 AM

    Does Tom Brady play defense? Because he put his team in position to win in both of the last Super Bowls only to have the defense squander it
    —————–

    LOL…. He put up 14 points in 2007 and i think 18 points last years in the Superbowl. I’d hardly argue that he put them in a great position to win.

    Why dont you complain about his D when they got him in theast 2 superbowls because he stunk it up in the AFC championship games in 2007 and 2011 (5 picks in those two games but defense pulled through)

  66. patsandwannabees says: Aug 31, 2012 11:21 AM

    All the people saying silly things about Brady wouldn’t be able to wipe the sweat off Monatana or 5 more rings and he’s not in the conversation or spygate blah, blah, blah……..

    I got ONE WORD FOR YA….Jealousy!!!

    Unless you are a Packer fan, you would trade your QB for Brady today.

    As far as best all time, if you aren’t jealous, you admit he is “In the Conversation”

    If you don’t, see the One Word…

  67. patriots87 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:23 AM

    how many HOF’s did Montana play with? How many HOF’s has Brady played with? exactly. but i still think Brady needs a another ring for there to be NO argument.

  68. lifeimitatesfootball says: Aug 31, 2012 11:26 AM

    Yes, Brady is a top 5 QB.

    But I am surprised or even shocked that Robert Kraft, THE best owner in the NFL right now, is coming out with the hubris and sounding like a Stephen Ross!

    Is the era of decline for the Patriots finally here? when Brady finally retires in three years or less, will BB quit the team and Kraft sell it, or hand it off to his son? In any case it’ll be interesting to see how Kraft handles failure.

  69. lombardisshineinfoxborough says: Aug 31, 2012 11:29 AM

    I am a die hard Pats fan first and foremost, but the Niners are my second team so I have lots of love for Montana. Bottom line the whole argument about proclaiming a single QB the best of all time is just silly. Too many variances from one era to the next as well as within the individual teams themselves. And of course you have fans with agendas who will make a case for or against somebody due to bias. If Brady retires tomorrow he will always be in the discussion as one of the all time greats and I’m happy to simply have it at that!

  70. 1nationraidernation says: Aug 31, 2012 11:31 AM

    Joe Montana didn’t fumble!

  71. sj39 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:32 AM

    I would not trade my QB for Brady and neither would a lot of teams. And I will never be jealous of cheaters like the Patriots***.

  72. psilenttype says: Aug 31, 2012 11:43 AM

    Montana never lost a SB especially not to ELI MANNING!!!!!!

  73. wardawg42 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:44 AM

    Bradys awesome. Love the guy. But in my mind there will always be that asterix regarding Spy Gate. I don’t have that Asterix with Montana.

  74. august589 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:44 AM

    @rebel21das Montana did not always have Jerry Rice. Rice joined San Francisco in 1985 and Montana and the Niners had already won two Super Bowls by then–after the 1981 and 1984 seasons.

  75. jikkle49 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:55 AM

    To me it comes down to if I’m choosing between Montana and Brady to be my QB for the Super Bowl I’m choosing Montana without a doubt.

  76. bobzilla1001 says: Aug 31, 2012 11:55 AM

    The 49ers won a lot of games with several different QBs: Steve Bono and Matt Cavanaugh both come to mind. Montana, like Brady, was a systems quarterback. Bill Walsh made Joe Montana.
    Terry Bradshaw called his own plays, which means Bradshaw was successful in nobody’s system but his own. Bradshaw might not be the best-ever QB, but he certainly was and still is the most successful QB of all-time.

  77. jolink653 says: Aug 31, 2012 12:02 PM

    truthfactory says:
    Aug 31, 2012 11:18 AM

    LOL…. He put up 14 points in 2007 and i think 18 points last years in the Superbowl. I’d hardly argue that he put them in a great position to win.

    Why dont you complain about his D when they got him in theast 2 superbowls because he stunk it up in the AFC championship games in 2007 and 2011 (5 picks in those two games but defense pulled through)

    ___________________________________________________

    I’m not complaining about the defense, in fact I was proud of the way they played last year in the Super Bowl after all the yards they gave up during the regular season…My point was that people keep saying Brady lost those two Super Bowls like it’s his fault they lost…He did put them in position to win because he handed the lead over to the defense both times late in the 4th quarter and the defense needed to make a stop but didn’t get one and you’re not going to score a ton of points in the Super Bowl because it’s two good teams playing against each other…And every QB, Montana included, puts up a stinker now and then and yes, it takes a team effort to get through those games but Brady was not the reason the Patriots lost the last two Super Bowls

  78. cmdrsmooth says: Aug 31, 2012 12:03 PM

    Brady is great. He would be successful in any era. This is coming from a Jets fan.

    If Montana or Marino played in today’s NFL with freedom today’s WR and QB’s have, they may put up even better numbers then Bree’s and Rodgers. But who cares, they are all great, no rings or multiple.

    Remember, Brady would have 5 rings if not for some miraculous Giant plays. Then again, Tuck Rule should of taken away at least one ring…Karma.

  79. ytsejamer1 says: Aug 31, 2012 12:04 PM

    Big Pats fan here…but I disagree. Brady needs one or even two more to be considered better than Montana. Had Brady capped that 2007 season with a perfect record…boom, he’s the best ever without question. He would have been 4-0 at the time and the world in NE sports would be completely altered.

    But…Kraft said what he should have and Brady said what he should have. But for me…Montana is still on top.

  80. bobhk says: Aug 31, 2012 12:05 PM

    rc33 says:
    Aug 31, 2012 10:34 AM
    You could argue that Brady only has one title without Adam Vinatieri.
    —————————–
    Dumbest argument imaginable. Should Montana take a hit as well for playing with the greatest WR ever? Maybe that should be a demerit because no other QB’s had Jerry Rice in his prime.
    It all falls under the same “if” criteria.
    “If” Welker makes that catch in last years SB and “if” Tyree’s Hail Mary doesn’t take place Brady could also be 5-0.

     ——–
    This blind homerism to the extreme. It should be good enough to say that Brady is one of the best. Those who discount Montana never saw him play. The bigger e stage the better was Montanas performance.

    Montana did win 2 superbowls without rice. How many did Brady win without that great D?
    All this HOF talk. Montana’s great teams had two other Hofamers: rice and Lott. Am I missing anyone?

  81. jamiebuf12 says: Aug 31, 2012 12:09 PM

    jpthepatsfan says:
    Aug 31, 2012 10:22 AM
    Tom Brady already appeared in more super bowls than Joe Montana, and still has a good 3 or 4 more years left. He already has more touchdown passes. And will pass Joe in passing yards and probowl appearances this year. Tom is better end of story

    sorry jp ,but montana played before “the brady rule” came about…joe played when receviers were jammed at the line..the qb’s of the 80’s elway,marino,kelly,montana,and aikman would be ahead of brady if they were playing today…..those qb’s took hits and played real football…….brady is good for our era ,but the greatest?? c’mon he lost two superbowls already and never should have played in his first(the raiders got robbed) and he may lose more :-p go bills!!!!

  82. CKL says: Aug 31, 2012 12:15 PM

    Do I think TB is better? Who knows? All I know is that Montana wasn’t some perfect QB who never “failed in the clutch”. He and TB both each had 6 games below a 70 passer rating in the playoffs and I think JM has one more playoff game played. I thk their teams’ records in the playoffs with them are just one win better for JM too. It’s not some huge Grand Canyon type gap like some are making it out to be.

    I also heard Montana flat out say last week their Ds never go the credit they deserved and were a big reason they won SBs.

    JM had the advantage of no salary cap and FA so he played with better players longer. TB has the advantage since 04 of these dopey loose passing game favorable rules. Those cancel each other out, IMO. They both had great HCs, so that’s a wash.

  83. xxsweepthelegxx says: Aug 31, 2012 12:17 PM

    The argument is moot to argue in different eras, both great QBs.

    Everyone brings up Jerry Rice, which is very valid, but people are forgetting the 49ers had a nasty defense AND Roger Craig at RB.

    Brady has had a non-existent run game ever since Dillon left years ago, and even then he was “left overs” from Cincy.

  84. ynot1381 says: Aug 31, 2012 12:21 PM

    I always looked at choosing greatest QB of all-time is like choosing a superpower. It really depends on what you prefer:

    Joe Montana – Hawkeye
    Brett Favre – Wolverine (indestructible)
    Peyton Manning – Professor X
    John Elway – Beast (fast, strong, smart)
    Tom Brady – Batman

  85. volusiagirl says: Aug 31, 2012 12:55 PM

    Yes Mr. Kraft, Tom is greatest QB… but only in NE!! Joe & Walsh didn’t need to see what everyone else was doing to win their SB’s, but your boy and his coach did!!! I’m a Cowboys fan and I believe Mr. Montana is the greatest QB in my lifetime (56 yrs old) and I’ve had some of the best and seen some of the best. Tom & Bill B….I don’t think so!!!

    Hell, Eli owns their butts now… he’s 2-0, Brady & Bill 3-2. Who the best NOW!!!

  86. Dad says: Aug 31, 2012 1:18 PM

    To be match or eclipse Montana, he would have to throw ZERO interceptions AND have a perfect record in superbowls…. but it’s already too late for that!

  87. tedmurph says: Aug 31, 2012 1:20 PM

    gjags12 says:Aug 31, 2012 11:10 AM

    Peyton’s still better then Brady for this era, superbowls or not. All you have to look at is how their team performs when they’re not there. The Pats still made it to the playoffs and the Colts went 2-14

    ==================================

    Manning playoff yrs:

    reg season: 122-38 76%
    playoffs: 9-10 2SB 1 ring

    Brady playoff yrs:

    reg season: 101-25 81%
    playoffs: 16-6 5 SB 3 rings

    Similar regular seasons, vastly different in the playoffs. All you need to know.

  88. bullcharger says: Aug 31, 2012 1:25 PM

    LoCoSu@%s says:Aug 31, 2012 10:32 AM

    Brady is great but Montana is the greatest. Never failed in the clutch,

    —————-

    Sure he failed in the clutch. He lost 2 NFC championships and 1 AFC Championship with KC. Those were failures.

  89. chris6523 says: Aug 31, 2012 1:30 PM

    Montana won a Super Bowl and had taken the 49ers to another NFC championship game before Jerry Rice showed up in San Fran.

    I am pretty sure that Jerry Rice is the only hall of famer that Montana played offense with in his career and I don’t think there is anyone else that is particularly close. John Taylor, Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Brent Jones, and Roger Craig were all nice players, but other than Craig, there really isn’t another guy on that list who was even a regular on the all pro team.

  90. bullcharger says: Aug 31, 2012 1:33 PM

    gjags12 says:Aug 31, 2012 11:10 AM

    Peyton’s still better then Brady for this era, superbowls or not. All you have to look at is how their team performs when they’re not there. The Pats still made it to the playoffs and the Colts went 2-14.

    Sorry, almost made it to the playoffs

    —————————

    I’ve heard that argument many times. It doesn’t make any sense. The Patriots went 16-0 with Brady the year before, which has never been done. Then they went 11-5 and missed the playoffs. That’s 5 less wins.

    Indy went 10-6 with manning in 2010 and they were already not looking so good. 5 less losses, just like the Patriots, would have been 5-11. I can say with certainty that they would have got to 5-11 if they had someone as good as Matt Cassell, who has been a highly paid starter for several years. Even if Kerry Collins didn’t go down, they probably would have had a better record than 5-11. Bad argument.

  91. bobhk says: Aug 31, 2012 1:50 PM

    bullcharger says:
    Aug 31, 2012 1:25 PM
    LoCoSu@%s says:Aug 31, 2012 10:32 AM

    Brady is great but Montana is the greatest. Never failed in the clutch,

    —————-

    Sure he failed in the clutch. He lost 2 NFC championships and 1 AFC Championship with KC. Those were failures.
    ———
    Better to fail in NFC championship games than in superbowls.

    I don’t know how many times it has to be said in these forums that Montana won *2* superbowls without Rice. So get off that high horse about Montana needing Rice to win championships.
    Can you say the same thing about Brady and that great D?

    The thing most guys don’t realize about this salary cap argument is that no salary cap is only an advantage if it’s available to only one team. When no teams have salary caps, every team has the same opportunity to stockpile talent. There’s no competitive advantage.

    If you don’t understand that, you need to understand basic logic.

  92. jolink653 says: Aug 31, 2012 2:02 PM

    bobhk says:
    Aug 31, 2012 1:50 PM

    Better to fail in NFC championship games than in superbowls.

    _________________________________________________

    Not sure why failing in the championship game would be better than in the Super Bowl…At least when you lose a Super Bowl you were there competing for it rather than watching it at home…That’s not really a valid counter-point

  93. bobhk says: Aug 31, 2012 2:46 PM

    jolink653 says:
    Aug 31, 2012 2:02 PM
    bobhk says:
    Aug 31, 2012 1:50 PM

    Better to fail in NFC championship games than in superbowls.

    _________________________________________________

    Not sure why failing in the championship game would be better than in the Super Bowl…At least when you lose a Super Bowl you were there competing for it rather than watching it at home…That’s not really a valid counter-point
    ———
    So, you’d rather fail on a bigger stage? The end result is the same: no Super Bowl title.

  94. brazzz01 says: Aug 31, 2012 2:49 PM

    Pats fan but being objective. It’s so hard to objectively compare guy stats in totally different eras. Hell Marino in his prime might be throwing for 6000 yards in today’s rules.

    You have to look at intangibles more than anything if you’re going to try making that comparison. That’s why Brady and Montana are two of the greatest.

  95. saggysack says: Aug 31, 2012 2:51 PM

    Tommy truly is terrific, no doubt about that but he is no Joe. Joe did it when you could still hit QB’s and receivers and didn’t have all these foo-foo rules made is his name. Joe never got “Tuck Ruled” either.

  96. brazzz01 says: Aug 31, 2012 2:52 PM

    “Peyton’s still better then Brady for this era, superbowls or not. All you have to look at is how their team performs when they’re not there. The Pats still made it to the playoffs and the Colts went 2-14.”

    The Patriots were much better prepared (and have a much better coach) to sustain the loss of Brady than the Colts did with Manning.

    That says nothing about who’s the better QB.

  97. pa9erfan says: Aug 31, 2012 3:07 PM

    not only did joe never lose a sb… he never threw a pick in four superbowls… brady might crack top5, dunno tho…. i did like brady’s response…

  98. skippynj says: Aug 31, 2012 3:37 PM

    Drew’s better.

  99. nytroutdog says: Aug 31, 2012 4:00 PM

    This entire thing is an exercise in futility. They’re both great QB’s and that’s that.

    Go Bills!

  100. raideralex99 says: Aug 31, 2012 4:09 PM

    It really is useless to compare great qbs from different eras … Everyone makes good points but in the end … What does it matter they are great qbs.

    My two cents … if Belichick coached the Colts … Peyton would be 5-0 in the SBs.

  101. thesaint257 says: Aug 31, 2012 10:36 PM

    Ok……Spygate people out there: you say the Pats never won after Spygate but if Spygate was do detrimental to the championships, why did New England not win in 2000,2002,2005, lost an epic game to the Colts in 2006 where the Colts came back down by 18 or 22 points and then get caught in 07′ and because Spygate was so great, they went 18-1 and lost because of an awesome but weird catch on the top of the helmet?

    So the Pats get caught and go 18-1 then get close the year before last then make it back to the Superbowl and the Giants some how pull of a great catch and win again? Those darn cameras! If those rings are tainted then the Goants rings when BB was the defensive coordinator were as well, right?

    Then to the Adam Venatieri people? Can Adam V kick an 85 or 90 yard field goal? Didn’t Brady get them into position to kick a game winner? Remember that first Superbowl when he had the epic game winning drive? Let’s see him kick from their own 20.

    Brady hasn’t won all his Superbowls and has thrown picks in them. If he and Montanna switch places they’d still be great! Playoff records and rings speak. Brady won with less talent but if I rank them
    Montanna is 1, Brady 2, Elway, Manning, or Unitas 3,4, and 5

    Either way, don’t dis Brady. Most of you would take him in a heartbeat. Montanna is king but Brady is good too!

  102. bainmethuen says: Sep 1, 2012 7:10 AM

    The fact is, no QB can be defined as the best ever. If Dwight Clark lets the ball go off his finger tips, is Joe still the best ever? In 2007 if Asante Samual picks off the pass right in his hands, and the Pats go 19-0, does that make Brady the best ever? Because Samuel didn’t catch it, does that mean he is not? In last years superbowl, if Manningham’s foot comes down 2 inches to the left and out of bounds, does that make Brady better? Because it didn’t, does that make Brady worse? We could do this all day. First off, it is a team game. Second, era plays into it. I loved Joe growing up, but come on man. We forget so easily. Look a Joe’s playoff stats in 85, 86, 87. Does that mean he sucks? No. As for Spygate, how did 2007 work out for Tom’s stats? Come on man! Again, Eli chucks up a wounded duck that Tyree catches against his helmet. The Pats go from being 19-0 “best team ever”,…to they suck and can’t win without spying? That just does not hold water. Brady is 53-11 since Spygate. Average record of slightly better than 13-3. Yeah, that guy sucks! Is he the best ever? There is no such thing. How good would Archie Manning have been if he played on the 70s Dolphins? Is Emmitt Smith the best RB ever? Did Barry Sanders suck because he never won a ring? Marino? Was Strahan better than Reggie White? Could go on all day.. It is just dumb..

  103. swagger52 says: Sep 1, 2012 12:56 PM

    All the Patriots ever do is talk. Let your play do the talking on the field. Oh…wait…since Brady can’t even do that against Eli Manning who is borderline Elite..lets just talk.

  104. electionconfidential says: Sep 1, 2012 1:08 PM

    Brady has played in a bad division and a bad conference throughout his career. For much of his career the coaching staff was cheating. Joe Montana was having to slug it out with teams like the Cowboys and Giants in the NFC. Very very different thing.

    I used to admire Kraft for keeping his mouth shut.

  105. electionconfidential says: Sep 1, 2012 1:10 PM

    Spygate should definitely keep Brady and Beli-cheat out of the Hall of Fame. Their rings should be returned as well.

  106. 19nown4ever says: Sep 1, 2012 3:10 PM

    I have just two words: John Unitas. ‘Nuf said

  107. sportsinhd says: Sep 1, 2012 3:57 PM

    The correct answer to the greatest of all time is Unitas. He won in the Super Bowl era and before that. He called his own plays and was the prototype for the modern qb.

  108. brazzz01 says: Sep 1, 2012 4:27 PM

    “Can we say the same about Brady and that great D”

    What “great D”?

    2001 – Pats D was ranked in the bottom third in the league in pass and total yards given up, playing a last place schedule

    2002 – worst run D in football

    2003 – bottom half of the league in pass yards allowed

    2004 – see 2003

    2005 – Worst pass D in football

    2006 – Very good D, but no weapons on offense

    2008 – couldn’t beat any good teams, and the’ve declined every season since to the point that they almost won a Super Bowl in January with not just a bad D, but a historically bad D.

    So let’s not pretend that Brady was benefiting from the 86 Bears or the 2000 Ravens defense. Not so.

  109. swagger52 says: Sep 3, 2012 9:29 AM

    Yes. Lets not pretend that Brady doesn’t have the refs working for him on third down and long.

    Lets not forget the first Superbowl was a gift from the Refs with the “tuck” rule, whatever that is. The league still today is dealing with rationalizing that call, all to benefit Tom Brady.

  110. lrjets says: Sep 3, 2012 6:31 PM

    I die a little inside everytime people start comparing Brady to Montana. You could argue that Brady only has one title without Adam Vinatieri.

    And none for him and BB without Mangini!

  111. bikelikemike says: Sep 4, 2012 3:45 AM

    truthfactory says: Aug 31, 2012 10:00 AM – SAID:

    “What elevates Brady in a lot of fans minds is his post-season success. But I don’t know how anyone can ignore the fact that he was like 12-1 in the post-season with spygate, and like 6-4 without… and his QB rating has also dropped dramatically in the post-season since we found out about spygate.

    I’m not saying he’s not a great QB, but when the Ace up your sleave is “well he has 3 Superbowls”… well we have to look at how you got those superbowls. Cheating was a big part of it. And if they didn’t think it was that important or beneficial, then why did they continue to take the risk and do it even after the league had sent out a warning about it that very same year they got caught… Obviously they thought the reward was greater than the risk of getting caught.

    It’s not fair that he had such a great advantage in knowing what defensive plays were coming on a given snap during those years, while other “great” QB’s that he’s compared to had to disect a defense on their own.

    Great QB for sure and fun as hell to watch, but the cheating is a definate stain that won’t go away just because Pats fans really really want it to…”
    —————
    And ya know what else?? The FACT that your extremely sorry and SO very biased and jealous attempt to make the spygate thingy into something that affected those games when it did not.. just because you really really want it to… and because you NEED so desperately to have something as an excuse to try to diminish a great team and QB because they aren’t “yours”… won’t work. We’re so sorry. It must suck to be you. Especially when you’re so transparent and such a loser/ hater/ crybaby. LMAO.

  112. bikelikemike says: Sep 4, 2012 4:42 AM

    swagger52 says: Sep 1, 2012 12:56 PM

    All the Patriots ever do is talk. Let your play do the talking on the field. Oh…wait…since Brady can’t even do that against Eli Manning who is borderline Elite..lets just talk.
    ———————
    Hey brain surgeon; Brady doesn’t play against Eli, the 31st ranked defense had that job. Brady almost won both of the last two SBs; the first one after limping into the complex in a walking boot- being seriously hampered from a very deep injury that the Pats kept secret. And this last one with almost no-one to throw to- with Gronk hobbled- needing surgery, and four dropped balls by four different receivers that otherwise would have SEALED the win!! The difference in both games was the Giants D playing like superheroes!! And they had beat the hell out of every team they faced leading up to both SBs because of that D; rising at the most opportune time of the season= more healthy than anyone else in the league as well. Wake up!

    BTW, the Pats NEVER “talk”!! They’re the LAST team to do that!! Kraft talking this ONE time was SO far out of the ordinary, and if you had a friggin clue (or you were honest) you’d admit it.

  113. randallflagg52 says: Sep 4, 2012 9:30 PM

    Johnny Unitas of the Baltimore Colts was and is the best ever.

    You people need to realize the game is older than 15 years.

  114. talldarkandmoney says: Sep 5, 2012 1:52 PM

    Brady is better then Montana hands down!!!!
    Who were Bradys WRs or RBs? Montana had all world class around him unlike Brady
    Stats speak for themselves
    Leader in playoff wins, record holder for TD….3 rings, 2 Super bowl mvps, 2 time MVP, not bad for a guy who had nobody around him and who was drafted LAST in the qb class!!!!

  115. cliffclavicle says: Sep 5, 2012 8:45 PM

    And Brady has won nothing ever since the Pats cheating was revealed. Wildly overrated QB and team, won’t even win their weak division.

  116. elvoid says: Sep 6, 2012 9:43 AM

    Brady is one of the greats – can’t dispute that.

    But if he wants to be the “best ever,” we’ll have to start spelling his name U-n-i-t-a-s.

    To paraphrase someone above – I know a lot of you guys are young – but hard as it might be to believe, football didn’t start in 1980.

  117. brazzz01 says: Sep 6, 2012 1:02 PM

    “Lets not forget the first Superbowl was a gift from the Refs with the “tuck” rule, whatever that is. The league still today is dealing with rationalizing that call, all to benefit Tom Brady.”

    The ref made the right call, by the rulebook. In fact the same rule went against the Patriots earlier in the season. Of course only a silly Patriots hater would think the rule was made up right on the spot, but that is to be expected from them.

    I always have to laugh when I think of the fact that this upsets Raider Fan a lot more than their team’s embarrassing display against the Bucs in the Super Bowl.

  118. brazzz01 says: Sep 6, 2012 1:04 PM

    “And Brady has won nothing ever since the Pats cheating was revealed. Wildly overrated QB and team, won’t even win their weak division.”

    Typical silly statement from a silly Patriots hater.

    LOL

  119. cliffclavicle says: Sep 6, 2012 5:42 PM

    Maybe number 8-9 on the all-time top ten list, many better QB’s before him. Played in the “dainty skirt-wearing QB” era too. He’ll begin to go into decline this year and be retired 3-4 years from now.

    While cheating = 3 SB wins
    Post-cheating = zero SB wins

  120. brazzz01 says: Sep 6, 2012 7:41 PM

    “But if he wants to be the “best ever,” we’ll have to start spelling his name U-n-i-t-a-s.”

    Apples and Oranges comparison. Different game with different rules in a different era.

    Here’s some of the “quality” names that have a higher career passer rating than Unitas: Elvis Grbac, Jake Delhomme, Aaron Brooks, Brad Johnson, Neil O’Donnell, Mark Rypien, Chris Chandler..

    Nuff said. Proof that it’s just not possible to objectively compare players from two completely different eras in the sport.

  121. mazblast says: Sep 6, 2012 11:21 PM

    Sammy Baugh
    Otto Graham
    Bart Starr (5 titles, only 1 championship game loss)
    Terry Bradshaw (4-0 in Super Bowls)
    Joe Montana (ditto)

    All Mr. Kraft has to offer up is Hollywood Brady, 0-2 in Super Bowls since Spygate. A fine QB, but not exactly Mr. Playoffs lately.

  122. mazblast says: Sep 6, 2012 11:28 PM

    Forgot to add to the list–Johnny Unitas, possibly the greatest non-athletic QB ever. Who knows how many titles he and Starr may have won had they not been in the same division?

  123. elvoid says: Sep 7, 2012 12:08 PM

    Brazzzo –

    You are absolutely right that it is next to impossible to objectively compare players from different eras. I don’t think anyone claims the eternal GOAT debate as something that can be objectively solved. Sure, there’s some objectivity involved – but 90% of it is subjective.

    And subjectively, I’ll stand with Unitas.

    Incidentally, I won’t gripe too much about those that stand with Montana – a good argument can be made – but beyond that, everyone else is competing for third on the list. And when you think about it, as many greats as there have been over the years, any QB in the top 20 is an absolute beast – but there has to be a King of the Beasts, right?

    Mazblast –

    Only thing I’ll tell you is this, because I think you might find it interesting: Unitas was actually quite athletic. In his college career at Louisville, he played both ways – I think as a safety on D, but don’t hold me to that. He also returned kicks and punts. As an NFL QB in his younger years, he was a decent runner for a QB – but the game was not designed for that type of QB play at the time.

  124. brazzz01 says: Sep 7, 2012 1:12 PM

    You’re right about that elvoid.

    I think the only sensible way you can compare these guys is their intangibles and how they stand out from their peers in their era.

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