Carroll wishes he’d thought of Schiano’s approach to kneeldowns

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Seahawks coach Pete Carroll has waded into the dispute between Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano and Giants coach Tom Coughlin over the way the Bucs attacked the Giants’ kneel-down on their final play Sunday. And instead of doing the safe thing and straddling the fence, Carroll has come down firmly on the side of Schiano.

At his press conference today, Carroll made it clear that he thinks Schiano is right. And although he didn’t mention Coughlin by name, he also suggested that he thinks Coughlin was wrong to object to the way the Buccaneers tried to force a fumble on the Giants’ “victory formation” play, saying that if the Giants have a problem with the way the Buccaneers handled the play, then the Giants need to do a better job of protecting their quarterback.

“I’m glad it was brought up like this because I think it was a competitor competing and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that,” Carroll said. “That’s exactly what you should do: Try to win the game. And there was a chance to win the game on that play and I thought Greg did exactly the right thing. And I would do exactly the same thing if in the same situation. So I don’t see where there’s any reason to think other than that. It’s about competing to try to make the play to win the football game. That’s it. And protect your quarterback.”

But the odd thing about Carroll’s claim that he “would do exactly the same thing if in the same situation” is that Carroll was in the same situation a week earlier, and he didn’t do the same thing: When Carroll’s Seahawks were on the losing side of the Cardinals’ victory formation play in Week One, they didn’t try to force a fumble. I just re-watched the Cardinals’ final kneel-down in Week One, and the players on the Seahawks’ defense just stood there and allowed Cardinals quarterback Kevin Kolb to take the snap, take a step back and take a knee.

Oddly, none of the reporters at Carroll’s press conference asked him the logical follow-up: If you think Schiano is right, why haven’t you coached your team the way Schiano coached his team?

Apparently Carroll hasn’t coached it because he had never thought of it. And maybe Schiano has now taught the rest of the league a new approach to kneel-downs, and we’ll see Carroll and other coaches teaching that approach going forward.

55 responses to “Carroll wishes he’d thought of Schiano’s approach to kneeldowns

  1. Seriously there is no way anyone can fumble a snap when the game is already decided. All it does is cause cheap shots and could get a player injuried.
    What’s the refs going to do … give the losing team a personal foul … the game is still over.

  2. What these college coaches forget is that in the NFL there is something called retribution. If you submarine a teams oline in victory formation, the next week someone will add motion to their victory formation and crack your defensive end. Or worse yet when you get in victory formation someone will take a shot at your QB. It’s not an issue of competing, it’s an issue of putting your own players in a compromising postion down the road. I wouldn’t expect either of those coaches to care about their players though.

  3. If you’re losing by more than 8 points with a few seconds left there’s not point. But if a TD & a conversion gets you the tie/win why would you not do it.

  4. Do people not remember that Bucs the Giants score a TD on their final drive, the defenders didn’t attempt to tackle them…

    So Schiano’s line about playing hard all the way through the game is baloney.

  5. you know how many times i’ve seen a QB take advantage of this “unwritten rule” by taking their time kneeling and getting a few more cheap seconds off the clock?

    A QB deserved to get knocked down on a kneel play eventually

  6. I’ll be damned if another team tells me that the game is over and to give up…

    I would want my team to do the same as the Bucs, fight until the very end, until the clock hits zero.

  7. Trying to force fumbles on kneeldowns is gonna spread through the nfl like the wildcat offense lol. It’s a legal play. Watch the replay, no player from the bucanneers went low trying to take out a players knees. The giants are simply trying to paint it as such in the media because they weren’t prepared and got embarrassed. If it wasn’t a one score game, then it would be a different story. The chance to get the fumble and score was very very miniscule but you can’t blaim them for trying. The giants should of simply protected their qb better.

  8. No, Carroll HAS thought of it. So has anybody who’s been around football. It just took someone with the balls (no pun) to actually tell his team to go for it. Now just watch, other coaches will start to follow suit in this copycat league.

  9. Fumbles do happen at the end of games i think just last year phillip rivers blew a game by fumbling the snap all he had to do was hold on and they would have won

  10. I am surprised that CArroll didn’t think of it. If there is a way to cheat, Slippery Pete usually finds it.

  11. 2011 San Diego Chargers, 1:04 left in the game, Chiefs have no timeouts, it’s Chargers 1st and 10. All they have to do is kneel to ice the game. Philip Rivers fumbles the snap. Chiefs recover. Chiefs win.

    If the score is within 8 points, the game aint over until the clock reads 0:00

  12. slight correction, the game was tied and the Chargers were in Field Goal range (at the 20). Just a kneel down would have resulted in overtime

  13. raideralex99 says: Sep 20, 2012 6:55 PM

    Seriously there is no way anyone can fumble a snap when the game is already decided. All it does is cause cheap shots and could get a player injuried.
    What’s the refs going to do … give the losing team a personal foul … the game is still over.
    ———————————————————
    Wrong answer
    November 19, 1978
    Giants v Eagles

  14. I’ve seen plenty of NFL qb’s do the ol’ fake kneel, take a step back and launch it towards the end zone for a TD. It’s happened way more than once. This should be a non-issue now since it’s happened and such a big deal was made of it and now everyone would/should be looking for it and be prepared. Who cares if they don’t do away with the “victory formation”, teams will be playing it differenly from here on out regardless. That play will no longer be the “gimme” that it always has been.

  15. Does anyone wonder why the word “miracle” is associated mostly with football? Miracle in Miami (BC) Music city Miracle (Titans) and Miracle at the Meadowlands (Eagles) come to mind. 60 minutes of football means 60 minutes and not 59 minutes and 55 seconds. I’m sure Greg Schiano knew this would probably not work but he was trying to establish a tenor for this season for his team. The old saying “We may not stand tall but we will stand up”

  16. All the pro-Schiano, pro-Tampa backers on this will change their tune LOUDLY when it’s their quarterback on the receiving end, including Schiano himself.

  17. RE-jimnaizeeum says: If you’re losing by more than 8 points with a few seconds left there’s not point. But if a TD & a conversion gets you the tie/win why would you not do it.

    ALL that needs to be said……………moving on……

  18. If the Buccaneers secondary didn’t get burned as bad as they did then Schiano wouldn’t have told them to attack the kneel down. Cut & dry. Go Bucs!

  19. Is it any different than a qb pretending to clock the ball and actually running a play? If qb’s are going to do that to take advantage of a relaxed defense, then the defense has every right to take advantage of a relaxed offense.

  20. for the rest of schiano’s career now, he’s going to have to “protect his quarterback” on kneel-downs.

  21. Remember, Buddy did the fake knell down against the cowboys with Randell- he pretended to knell and then threw a pass (forget if they scored). I think it was in revenge for the cowboys playing scabs during the a strike game. Point is- you never know, play to the end!

  22. I agree on attacking the ball IF you’re down by 1 score.. but that game was out of the reach.. there was no need for that..

  23. @teambringitstrong

    yeah but the miracle at the meadowlands fumble returned by Herm was not a kneel down by QB it was an attempted handoff.

  24. To all of the people citing the Chargers 2011 loss in which Philip Rivers fumbled the snap with 1 minute left:

    Close, but not quite. The chargers were preparing for a game winning field goal, not kneeling out in “victory” formation. Regardless, the point still holds true: even the most seemingly simple snaps can always be fumbled

  25. jimnaizeeum says:
    Sep 20, 2012 6:58 PM
    If you’re losing by more than 8 points with a few seconds left there’s not point. But if a TD & a conversion gets you the tie/win why would you not do it.
    ———-
    This is absolutely 100% correct. You go at it for 60 minutes and if you are down by a score then you go for hitting the other team to recover the ball and win. Coughlin is 100% wrong. If the Bucs were trailing by more than 8 points then Coughlin would be correct.

  26. The same people who are crying that a team should compete on every snap are the first to cry when a team runs up the score another. If you want to play like that Pete, go ahead..but don’t cry “What’s your deal?” to Harbaugh the next time he runs up the score on you.

  27. teambringitstrong says:Sep 20, 2012 7:18 PM

    raideralex99 says: Sep 20, 2012 6:55 PM

    Seriously there is no way anyone can fumble a snap when the game is already decided. All it does is cause cheap shots and could get a player injuried.
    What’s the refs going to do … give the losing team a personal foul … the game is still over.
    ———————————————————
    Wrong answer
    November 19, 1978
    Giants v Eagles
    ___________________________

    Joe Pisarcik (NYG) was trying to hand the ball off to a running back…he wasn’t taking a knee. That’s the primary reason why teams have their QB’s kneel down.

  28. This may have the same impact as Marino’s fake spike years ago. He got the Jets with it, but no one falls for it anymore. Similarly, offensive lines will be ready for an agressive defensive line on any play…even V formation plays.

  29. I didnt think attacking on a kneel down was cheap. Definitely aggressive and a very low percentage you will get a turnover, but nothing wrong with it. As if Manning was gonna get injured, he barely even fell.

  30. If its a 1 score game and you force and recover a fumble and have one throw from the 25 in… Or a kick if it’s within 3…. Does that make it a bad play? In a 1 score game… You should do that…

  31. thepftpaperchase says:
    Sep 20, 2012 8:25 PM
    teambringitstrong says:Sep 20, 2012 7:18 PM

    raideralex99 says: Sep 20, 2012 6:55 PM

    Seriously there is no way anyone can fumble a snap when the game is already decided. All it does is cause cheap shots and could get a player injuried.
    What’s the refs going to do … give the losing team a personal foul … the game is still over.
    ———————————————————
    Wrong answer
    November 19, 1978
    Giants v Eagles
    ___________________________

    Joe Pisarcik (NYG) was trying to hand the ball off to a running back…he wasn’t taking a knee. That’s the primary reason why teams have their QB’s kneel down.
    —————–
    This is precisely the point. The guy was taking a knee to avoid giving the ball to someone and losing a fumble. Well, in that case, the D has a right to push hard and come at the QB to cause a fumble, even if they are in victory formation. Things are not a given.

  32. Wow, the NFC East teams whine a lot. Just from Week 2:

    -Giants about the victory formation.

    -Redskins/RGIII about the Rams playing “dirty.”

    -Cowboys about the Golden Tate decleater of Lee. (I think Jerry Jones ran to the principal’s office directly in tears to get that fine levied.)

    Maybe they should break out and start their own league — in lingerie football. Sponsored by squeezably soft Charmin.

  33. Nobody does a fake kneel down. They do fake spikes when the are in position, on offense, at the end of the game trying to win or tie. There would be no point to doing a fake kneel down, you’ve already won, what’s the point to risk running a play that jeopardizes your victory? Hence the kneel down, a play that doesn’t put any player at senseless risk when the game is decided. When the defense has no time outs and no chance of stopping the clock, they lost. Score some more points earlier in the game and you wouldn’t be in that position. I’m guessing Schiano was pissed he team gave up a 25 point lead. Coughlin was right, you don’t do that in this league. Why, because what comes around goes around. Besides, what a cheap way to try to win anyway. SCORE MORE POINTS!

  34. Schiano was correct, anyone who disagrees is wrong. Tired of hearing all this whining, i,m thinking mostly tv fans posting their lack of football knowledge.

  35. Just because your opponent would like you to stop trying to win, that doesn’t mean that you’re obligated to do so. Screw the giants.

  36. Memo to the Packer offense: On Monday when you’re up by 17 and in the victory formation be cautious of cheap shots from Seattle, especially when their coach escaped his college program because he knew he was caught cheating!

  37. You know Carroll will try this the next time they play the 49ers and happen to get into this situation. I hope they try it. Harbaugh PWNS Carroll.

  38. It’s pointless, the D can’t get to the QB in that situation. And what will happen is the O will pummel someone from the next team that tries this. WHy? because it is only going to be a 15 yd penalty and a small fine. A personal foul is not a loss of down, and if your kneeling on the ball then 15 yds doesn’t hurt you either. There is no effective reason to stop an Olineman from kicking the crap out of the next Dlineman the dives at the legs of the QB.

  39. A lot of strange things can come from the victory formation. Remember “The Miricle in the Meadowlands, ( The Fumble ), ?, or EaglesCowboys. Eagles had a decisive lead , with only seconds remaining, after three kneel downs the Eagles droped back and passed for a TD. The Cowboys were not ready. The TD wasn’t needed, just a spite thing.

  40. The only legitimate complaint against what Schiano did is the possibility of Manning getting hurt. BUT, if the Giants oline blocked, there would have been no chance of that. The Bucs D was going after the ball, not the quarterback.

    And if they shouldn’t do it because there is no chance it will work, then why not outlaw Hail Mary passes, onside kicks, fake field goals and fake punts? Those things never work, ha.

    Teams have a right and an obligation to do everything within the rules to try and win a game.

  41. Jerry Jones is right anyway, long-term they should ban the kneel-down, all teams forced to run plays right thru till the clock hits zero. Even blow-out games.

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