That’s why it could only be called a simultaneous catch. The call was correct. The controversy stems from the stupid agenda against the “replacement” refs.

The world is unfolding as it should, with the owners’ pockets flush with cash. Why pay for competent refs, discipline/fire refs for bad or biased calls or invest in the training, processes and technology that would virtually eliminate bad calls? That only cuts into the bottom line. Remember, no publicity is bad publicity.

Priorities people. I love the NFL, but it isn’t life or death.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
There would be no grey area. If one player has control, and then the 2nd player takes it away completely, that’s a takeaway/completed catch by the 2nd player. The point is, when one player has control and then subsequently, there is joint control, possession is awarded to the first player.

It does matter if one player has one hand and the other 2. How can you argue that Tate is controlling the ball with one hand?

And again, nowhere in the NFL rulebook does it mention that control only happens when a player hits the ground. In fact, the rulebook says control must be maintained through the catch and the process of coming to the ground. That clearly indicates that control can be awarded before a player hits the ground.
Looking at the replay, it seems clear that Jennings caught the ball with 2 hands while in the air, and seemingly maintains (initial) control, considering he brings the ball back to his chest. At that point, Tate doesn’t have control…he only has one hand on the ball, at best.

I’m not sure what you’re arguing….

You’re missing the point. The NFL rulebook says 2 things about simultaneous possession:

1) Simultaneous possession is defined as joint control.

2) Simultaneous possession doesn’t occur if one player initially has control, and then afterwards, the second player gains joint control.

Jennings had control initially, just as you said, when he was in the air. I seriously doubt that Tate having one hand touching the ball is defined as control by anyone. That means Jennings had initial control (note control has nothing to do with having 2 feet on the ground…).

Thereafter, we can debate if Tate got his second hand in there on the ball, even though it was pressed against Jennings’ chest, just as they were hitting the ground. But it shouldn’t matter anymore, because once one player has control, simulatenous possession cannot occur.

The whole concept of simultaneous possession is when two players catch the ball at the same time, both of whom have control and are fighting to retain it, throughtout the entire process of the catch. Jennings and Tate didn’t catch the ball at the same time. It’s that simple. Jennings caught it first, and then Tate got his 2nd hand in to jointly control the ball.
It does not occur when one player has control first, and then the second one gains joint control.

This wasn’t necessarily a bad mistake by the refs. It could have been hard to see that in game action. But once simultaneous possession was called, it couldn’t be reversed.
It was a bad call, but I won’t blame the refs for that.

I will, however, blame the refs for not calling the OPI on Tate right before the disputed catch, or calling Shields on that ridiculous DPI for that 35 yard gain, or the over-turned INT that would have liekly ended the game right there. Those were terrible calls due to incompetent officiating.

“Note that control isn’t decided when a player’s feet hits the ground. The rule of 2 feet hitting the ground is for deciding if there is a catch or not. The NFL rulebook says that a receiver must retain control throughout the process of hitting the ground (i.e. when 2 feet are down). Control therefore starts initially.”

Not true. Sorry but you’re changing the wording here. First touch and control are not the same thing. It actually does matter who does and does not have control when feet hit the ground. It doesn’t matter that one player had two hands on the ball and one had only one hand on the ball. It actually was a lot closer than people are letting on right now. It actually is who has control when both players have gone through the process, not who touches the ball first, otherwise, in your example, Green Bay could lose control and Tate would still not have a TD…. It opens up way too much grey area.

Now, that being said, I can see the play both ways. I probably would have said INT, but not because of the improper explanation of the rules you just said.

Because of the Sabol family we the fans have the best looks at all these bad calls and yet the NFL always comes out and defends these bad calls even though they know they’re not fooling anyone.

Way to honor the shield, the fans who support the game and the Sabol family as well with their lifelong work giving us all the evidence to see this garbage unfold – all while Goodell and the owners continue to say there’s nothing troubling about this. Regardless of the labor situation & who’s wrong or right – get it figured out. This isn’t football anymore – not the game I grew up loving anyway. Signed – just sports fan without team bias.

It was clear that Jennings had more control of the ball than Tate, with it up close to his chest, but Tate still had his hands on it, and Jennings was not able to tear it away from him.

We know that the rule says simultaneous possession goes to the passing team. But is that simultaneous possession?

If you had to prove that Tate did not have any possession whatsoever for it not to be simultaneous possession, that’s a hard case to make.

Tate committed unquestionable offensive pass interference prior to that, which could have easily been called, but frequently is not on hail mary plays.

Other questionable calls at best include the PI call on Shields a couple plays earlier, and a call against Seattle that allowed the Packers to continue what turned out to be a touchdown drive.

Bottom line, up until the hail mary pass, the bad calls were about even in their effects on each team. And you could make a case either way for the hail mary possession.

It does NOT matter if Jennings had his hands on the ball first while he was high in the air. Its not a catch or interception untill your feet hit the ground.

Tates feet CLEARLY hit the ground first and if he had both hands on the ball by then, it is his ball.

Its funny to me when people say he was barely touching the ball, yet Jennings, laying on top of him could not pull it from his grasp.

TouchDown Seahawks. Plain as day.

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Did you not watch the post game analysis. I did not hear one commentator say it was even remotely close to the right call.

The ref who called the INT was right behind them..are you sure you’re talking about the same game?

Ultimately, I think that both refs made a call, and the head ref just figured that they’ll look at replay to ensure the call was correct. Except that simultaneous possession isn’t reviewable, which is why it couldn’t be reversed. The refs couldn’t award possession after the fact to Jennings. So the only question was whether the pass was complete or incomplete. And it obviously wasn’t incomplete…

Something else that people are not understanding…simultaneous possession is defined as having ‘joint control’ of the ball. Per NFL rulebook: “It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an
opponent subsequently gains joint control.”

It doesn’t matter if Jennings’ feet hadn’t touched the ground yet. He had control initially and throughout, so the fact that Tate may have gotten another hand in there upon hitting the ground doesn’t matter.

Note that control isn’t decided when a player’s feet hits the ground. The rule of 2 feet hitting the ground is for deciding if there is a catch or not. The NFL rulebook says that a receiver must retain control throughout the process of hitting the ground (i.e. when 2 feet are down). Control therefore starts initially.

End of story. Bad call. It shouldn’t be overturned, but hopefully it will induce an agreement between the refs union and the NFL>

At the time, Patriots owner Robert Kraft, a member of the league’s compensation committee said, “I think we’re confident that Goddell and his team will do what’s for the best long-term interest of the league.”

And Falcons owner Arthur Blank, who chairs the compensation committee said, “I speak on behalf of 32 NFL club owners in saying we are fortunate to have Roger Goodell as our commissioner.”

Blank continued with, “NFL ownership recognizes his already significant list of accomplishments and is fully behind his strategic vision for the future of our league.”

Other members of the compensation committee are: Tom Benson (New Orleans), Pat Bowlen (Denver), Jerry Richardson (Carolina) and Stephen Ross (Miami).

The owners, through Goodell, knowingly hired incompetent people to determine the outcome of games and they are only ones who can bring back the real deal refs.

Give your respective team owners heat and maybe, just maybe, we can get the real deal refs back before more damage is done.

In essence what Goodell and the owners are doing is defrauding the fans and viewing public, in my opinion. They say they are offering officially sanctioned NFL football as their product when what they are now putting forth (by shamelessly using these replacement officials) is a disorderly, confusing and ruleless scuffle! In a word, what Goodell and the owners are doing is a sham.

Because the fans are addicted and have to get their weekly football fix, they are putting up with the sham. Everyone is accepting these uncontrolled scuffles as the real deal. Goodell and the owners are laughing all the way to the bank; integrity of the game and player safety be damned. And, the Packer fans are miserable and crying “FOUL!”

As for me, I’ll resume watching NFL football when the dispute between Goodell and the game officials is resolved. That is, when the regular officials are back on the field and the real game of NFL football resumes. Until then, I’m not letting myself be duped. I’ll watch some honest entertainment like a good movie.

“Protesting TV wont work. I don’t know what you people do not understand about this. Ratings are determined by Neilson boxes. There are about 25000 of these in the ENTIRE country. 25000 out of 300+million people. If you don’t have one it doesn’t matter what you do because they will never know.”

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Slightly off topic (well, more than slightly) but this is simply not true. Most cable providers can and do record your TV watching habits if you have digital cable and a DVR.

“Time for Roger to apologize, and seal the deal with the officials union.”

It’s time for Roger to resign, and take the walk of shame into history as the worst commissioner in football history.