Again good analysis of the rule, but the video is inconclusive on the fact of control. It really depends on the person viewing the catch’s perception. I do not think that this was anywhere near the obvious blown call that ESPN and NBC (apparently) believe it to be.

hat’s missing in all this is Tate comes out with the ball! I know , irrelevant but if Jennings had “control” how does he lose it to someone else?

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Yeah, AFTER Jennings already hit the ground with the ball still gripped tightly in his hands.

Why do you think the scab ref closest to the play (you know, the one who saw it unfold RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF HIM) ruled interception?

But Jennings pulled it into his CHEST with both hands, while Tate merely got a hand on it (and eventually both hands), so no, Jennings clearly controlled it first (and maintained control all the way through the catch, as Florio so eloquently points out). Merely touching the ball is NOT control, especially if the other guy tucks it into his body with both hands and you then try to rip it out. Stop being retarded.

If a catch can be made with one hand, ‘control’ can be constituted by one hand. Tate’s hand was on the ball first, followed by Jenning’s. Going by the rule book, it’s a touchdown. The Pack lost. Deal with it.

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Not if one guy has both hands on the ball, pulls it into his chest and hangs onto it all the way through while you barely have your fingertips with one hand on it and desperately try to rip it out as you both go to the ground, that’s not “control” at all, buddy. Sorry.

If Jennings so decisively had “more” control than Tate, then why was he not able to wrest control from Tate, despite having 100% more hands on the ball?

However, now let’s get to the part all you armchair referees should be ashamed of: the treatment of the replacement official over his call.

Yes – with the benefit of slo-mo replay, we can see he was wrong. However, at full speed, is there anyone here that can honestly say a “simultaneous possession call” based on what was seen during the catch and after was a bad call? It was absolutely a reasonable call on the field at full speed – just as a call the other way would have been equally reasonable – at full speed, this play was just that close, plain and simple.

Where this was blown – and the officials that should be taking the heat for blowing the call – are the replay officials – and THEY are NOT replacements.

So to sum up:

Call on the field by replacement official: reasonable

Review in the booth by regular offical: blown

If we’re going to crucify an official over this, can it at least be the right one?

The ball hits Tate’s hand, stops, and his hand never leaves. So much so that he is holding the ball in the hand (having never left) all alone when all is said and done. Jennings could not get that ball out of his left hand, even though he was ripping at it in the pile. There is no visual evidence that the ball ever moved out of his left hand. Whether Jennings helped him keep contact with the ball or not with his arm is irrelevant. We have seen guys maintain control using helmets, defenders, whatever. The WR is always awarded a catch if the ball hits their hands and they maintain holding the ball through the completion of the play.

I really believe it should have been ruled a catch, just like it was. There are no rules in the NFL Rulebook about a player having “more control” than another. The ball stops on Tate’s hand first. It stops it’s revolution and it’s trajectory is stopped. Then Jennings hands close over it. Maybe he aided Tate in the catch, but I don’t get how people can argue that Tate had no degree of control simultaniously with Jennings. The NFL does not differentiate degrees of “control”.

The Packers!

Jennings was first to the ball – all he had to do was smack it out of bounds or spike it into the ground. Instead, he went for the interception and put the replacement refs in a position to screw up the call.

Did the Packers learn nothing from the end of the first half of their playoff loss to the Giants last year?

Apparently not.

The real officials screw up calls all the time, so it is not a forgone conclusion that this screw-up is the result of having replacement officials. They are a convenient scapegoat, causing everyone to call for the real officials. When the real “part-time” ($200K) officials screw up, everyone calls for “full-time” officials, presumably because full=time officials would know the rules better than the real “part-time” officials.

I’m afraid I disagree on the Austin catch. I just rewatched it on NFL Gamepass, and it definitely looks to me that both players put their hands on the ball at the same time.

How did Mr. Tate move control of the ball from his left-hand fingertips to his right hand? Conclusion must be that at some point while everyone was falling down, the Seattle left hand fingertips got completely disconnected from the football. Both of Jenning’s hands retained control of the ball all the way down to the ground.
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The magnified clip shows that Jennings has both hands surrounding the ball and in full control of the ball ….. and …. in that frame and the frame or two thereafter, the Seattle guy’s left hand was not as high as the ball.

The magnified clip shows that just one or two of the longest outstretched fingers of the Seattle left hand were just barely touching the bottom of the ball …. or maybe the very end of the highest Seattle finger was still a sliver of an inch below the bottom of the ball.

If it were an NBA play at the rim of the basket, the Seattle guy should not be called for goal tending because the tip of his finger was below the rim and therefore not high enough to modify the trajectory of the basketball before it got to the basket (Jennings’ hands). The ball entered the basket (Jennings’ hands) without any influence from the Seattle fingertip. That’s two points in basketball and no foul …. and if both guys later fall on the wood floor after the ball comes out the bottom of the net and fight over the ball, it doesn’t change the two points.

Mr. Florio, hats off to you for a very well constructed argument.

My PC resolution is OK, but not FBI quality so I’d be interested in what a really great graphic card would reveal.

You know, in the movies they can just about see a football from outer space with the equipment they have ……. so some advanced technology in this case would be very welcome. Let’s put a 24 hour hold on looking at that rock on Mars so we can get some high resolution scientific talent looking at this video frame evidence from Monday night.
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So how does the bad call on monday night have anything to do with replacement referees? Possession of the ball is reviewable, and there was video evidence that supports Florio’s take on the matter; then why did this have anything to do with replacement officials?

nah, as a Packer fan … we either win it on Gameday or never… I’d be sick to my stomach if they reversed it 3 days after the game, that just feels lame…. The Refs blew it, it sucks – No respect for Seahawk/Viking fans anymore – whatever, Bring on the Saints….

After reading some of these posts, I’m convinced some of you actually believe the crud you’re spewing. You can watch the video in slow motion, fast motion, regular motion, picture by picture, or whatever way and still be 100% assured that the call was wrong.

The most bogus claim of all coming from Hawks fans, however, is that the Packers deserved to lose meaning the Hawks somehow deserved to win. The Packers had more yards and a greater time of possession offensively. Both offenses looked bad and both defenses looked good. The Packers defense statistically was a little bit better on the Hawks home field. So tell me how the Packers deserved to lose anyways but the Seahawks deserved to win?

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Nope – watch the “Miles Austin STEALS IT!” video on Youtube. At the 37 second mark, the TV replay showed clearly that Cromartie had both hands on the ball, and Miles was just reaching in to touch it with his first hand.

Regardless of how the rules are written, it’s clear from looking at the Miles Austin TD catch that the regular refs give a certain amount of leeway to the offensive player to stick his hands in after the fact and try to wrestle it free, as part of “simultaneous possession” – as long as the receiver tries to do it immediately after the defender grasps it. The Austin TD was also reviewed, and clearly the refs could see that Cromartie had two hands on it before Austin did.

Want to know how I know. The ref signaled TD, the booth reviewed it, the score changed, and now there is a W next to Seattle.

I have no sympathy for the media, the packers, the fans, or anyone else crying about it. There was no outrage, no media crusade, and no apologies from Brady or the Patriots after the “Tuck Rule” game so there should be none now. Suck it up and move on, just like all of us Raiders fans had to do.