Flawed logic. Every single NFL defense “plots” to take the other team’s star player out of the game. If you don’t understand football, that is why Ray Lewis screams in the pre-game huddle “let’s take the QB out of the game”, or Rex Ryan “dots” players or adds hot sauce to them, etc. etc etc.

No one is denying the money pool. And no one would have a problem if the money pool had been punished and treated like what it is, a salary cap violation, or even suspend a couple people a couple games. But, when the NFL and Goodell decide to engage in a very public media campaign to vilify Saints players and the organization for something the entire NFL does, and hands out totally unprecedented suspensions which so far have crippled a very competitive team, and then tries to validate his actions with what he calls “evidence”, “evidence” that has more holes than a sieve, that’s another matter.

People keep pointing to the “cart-offs” and the “knock-offs” as proof of intent to injure, but frankly, there’s a reason why the carts are there in every stadium and are used in every stadium frequently (including players who limp to the sideline and then get carted off to the locker room). This is a violent game. Football players hit each other as hard as they can already, and when you hit someone as hard as you can, you know there is a possibility the other will get injured, period.

It’s funny how soon people forget. Not so long ago, ESPN had a segment called Jacked Up! (remember that one?) where they showed devastating hits that most often than not resulted in the player leaving the game for a couple of plays, and not only the people on the show laughed about the hits, at the end of the segment someone said “oh, but no one got really hurt”. But that was ok, and people complained when the segment was removed because at time, Goodell and the NFL had started hearing from Congress about player safety.

Perhaps you are blinded by that one ring after 40+ years of futility.
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Actually, I have been a Redskins fan for 40 years, not a Saints fan. I just happen to be fond of fairness, and have a distaste for witch hunts and violations of the US Constitution by two-bit dictators like Roger Goodell.

musicman495 says:Oct 16, 2012 7:04 PM

vikesfansteve says: Oct 16, 2012 3:47 PM

This could open Vilma and his witnesses all up to Perjury charges.
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…. You choose to presume that if there is conflicting testimony, Vilma’s witnesses must be lying, more than a disgruntled former employee. I do not.

Perhaps that is because I am not blinded by my team’s 40+ years of Super Bowl futility.
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Perhaps you are blinded by that one ring after 40+ years of futility
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still the NFLs case is blinded on a disgruntled employee because he couldnt get another job in the league coupled with a fake ring

Now, if a Judge looks at this and determines that this isn’t enough for the NFL to have punished the saints, or even worse determine that there was no proof to justify any punishment. Then it will effectively end the power of this commissioner to give any additional punishment. In the end I think we’ve finally reached a point where this is coming to a end. And, for the first time this has gotten beyond the posturing to a point where there are real consequences for this mess. I only hope either way it goes that this is the last time this ever happens again

vikesfansteve says: Oct 16, 2012 3:47 PM

This could open Vilma and his witnesses all up to Perjury charges.
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…. You choose to presume that if there is conflicting testimony, Vilma’s witnesses must be lying, more than a disgruntled former employee. I do not.

Perhaps that is because I am not blinded by my team’s 40+ years of Super Bowl futility.
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Perhaps you are blinded by that one ring after 40+ years of futility.

Why couldn’t Goodell just provide the evidence in the first place?
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Several possible reasons. For starters, how will any Saints players or employees who cooperated with the investigation be treated by the remaining players? No bounty necessary when the motive is revenge.

Neither would the players if they were guilty. Don’t you think if Fujita was guilty he would take his one game and run? Most Saints fans don’t think Goodell is out to get the Saints, we just think he is making this pay for performance program out to something it’s not to make the NFL look good in the Lawsuit with the retired players

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Funny. What about the coaches who don’t have a union representing them. If it didn’t happen, would be far easier to get a lawyer and get relief.

I’m sure that comes into play, too. The fact that they aren’t fighting their suspensions.

This could open Vilma and his witnesses all up to Perjury charges.
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Goodell’s witnesses – all of one or two, who have NEVER testified or given an affidavit in federal court – could just as well be lying as Vilma’s witnesses who HAVE given court testimony. You choose to presume that if there is conflicting testimony, Vilma’s witnesses must be lying, more than a disgruntled former employee. I do not.

Perhaps that is because I am not blinded by my team’s 40+ years of Super Bowl futility.

Court location determines judge attitude politically.

Once Magistrate Knowles reviews the same evidence and also concludes the suspensions were just and proper, to whom will Vilma and his supporters complain?
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Nobody. Because this will be ACTUAL evidence, not The Rog saying “trust me”. Don’t act like Vilma and his supporters will continue to complain in the face of direct evidence. There hasn’t been any.

He claimed it was to ensure no one got their hands on the tapes and “gained a competitive advantage”. Oh, yeah – Right!! Very believable.

The truth is that Goodell bent over backwards to protect Robert Kraft, but has thrown Benson under the bus.
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That’s really relevent to this thread.

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this has NOTHING to do with the cba and EVERYTHING to do with the defamation suit. but could lead to some serious problems between the players and the nfl with the cba if there is nothing but ‘hearsay’ evidence.

Neither would the players if they were guilty. Don’t you think if Fujita was guilty he would take his one game and run? Most Saints fans don’t think Goodell is out to get the Saints, we just think he is making this pay for performance program out to something it’s not to make the NFL look good in the Lawsuit with the retired players

Will Vilma drop another $10K or so for his lawyer to continue?

How do the other three get NFLPA paid for legal council and Vilma is left to pay his own way?

While the CBA is a binding legal agreement, it is not the US Constitution, it still needs to comply with local and federal laws, and while Goodell was given the power to preside over matters, he (and the CBA) still need to meet certain guidelines in accordance to the law in their processes and actions, some of which may not be written down in the document, but are implied.

And the CBA is not in danger to being declared null and void because of this. It is more like the Court will order the NFL to comply with the law. The CBA may need a few edits here and there to make the language clearer, but that probably would be it.