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“Smash for Cash” video shows that pay-for-performance was accepted in 1996

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On Thursday, the NFLPA mentioned in a court filing an ESPN segment from 1996 titled “Smash for Cash.”  PFT has obtained a copy of the video, a feature from Andrea Kremer included in the extended NFL Countdown that aired on the day of Super Bowl XXXI.

Here’s the full transcript of the segment seven-minute segment, which featured a variety of players from separate interviews that had been conducted.

Andrea Kremer:  “Many players around the league earn bonus money by virtue of their achievements.  But it’s not usually courtesy of their own teammates.  But around the league, there’s a little-known but very popular incentive program players call ‘Smash for Cash.’”

Reggie White:  “We have guys get interceptions, fumbles.  I came out with like nine thousand and some dollars I had to pay out, because I was paying $500 each big play.”

Kremer:  “‘Smash for Cash,’ giving cash bonuses for big plays and hits made during a game.  Teams used to pay them money, but now that’s a violation of the salary cap.  So players contribute their own money.  But when the pot ran dry last year in Green Bay, Reggie White established his own incentive program, much to the dismay of his wife.”

White:  “I went home and told her, I said, ‘Sarah, can you write me a check for like $9,500.’  ‘What for?’  I said, ‘Well, I promised I’d pay guys $500 apiece if they made big hits.’  ‘Did anyone else do it with you?’  ‘No.’  ‘No?’!”

Troy Vincent:  “You know, everyone likes money.”

Lawrence Taylor:  “There is a dollar figure on everything you do in the game of football.”

Jeff Lageman:  “We create pots in our defensive line room of who gets the first sack of the game.”

Cris Dishman:  “If you knock someone completely off their feet and they land on their butt first.  That’s the big hit pot.”

Gary Plummer:  “It could mean $300 or $400 for a sack.  It could mean $500 or $600 for an interception of a caused fumbled.”

Cris Dishman:  “In one week you can win up to $1,000.”

Alfred Williams:  “These are just individual things that guys just challenge each other with.  It happens all the time in every place that I’ve played in.”

Andrea Kremer, to Ken Norton:  “Do guys take it seriously?”

Norton:  “No question about it.  That’s $500.  That’s untaxed.  I mean, that’s pretty good.”

Andrea Kremer:  “Different teams have different rules.  For example, rather than create a pot, Eagle defensive backs and linebackers have to pay each other when they make a big play.”

Vincent:  “Game day is $50 [per player] for an interception, $100 for a touchdown. . . .”

Kremer:  “Sometimes before there’s a pot, there’s a concept, like the Beaver.”

Lageman:  “In New York we had this huge emphasis on caused fumbles, and what we had was [a] thing called ‘the Beaver.’  Not only did you get a pot from the players if you caused a fumble, which is a ‘Beaver,’ but you also got to carry ‘the Beaver’ for a week, which was a stuffed animal on a rope.  Beaver, as you know, I don’t know if you know or not, if you don’t watch Discovery it’s the most diligent worker of the animal kingdom.  And so we said to cause fumbles you’ve got to be a diligent worker and you’ve got to focus in on it.”

Andrea Kremer:  “Pete Carroll began this concept with the Jets, and brought it with him to San Francisco.”

Pete Carroll:  “The beaver has always been known as the most diligent worker in the animal kingdom.”

Ken Norton:  “The beaver is the hardest working animal in the kingdom.”

Gary Plummer, to Norton:  “In the animal kingdom.  The most diligent, hard-working animal in the animal kingdom.”

Greg Robinson:  “From everything I understand, just going back to my schooldays, a beaver is known as the most diligent worker in the animal kingdom, noted for his ingenuity.”

Andrea Kremer:  “Greg Robinson was Pete Carroll’s defensive coordinator in New York, before taking the same job with the Broncos.  And although his definition of the beaver sounds strangely familiar, Robinson denies using a stuffed animal as a motivational technique in Denver.”

Kremer (watching tape with Robinson):  “What do you use this for?

Greg Robinson:  “Use this for?  You’re referring to?”

Kremer:  “The stuffed animal.”

Robinson:  “The stuffed animal?  There’s no stuffed animal around here.”

Bill Romanowski:  “I think it was our first game, and I knew nothing about ‘the Beaver,’ and sure enough Greg Robinson pulls out this little stuffed animal.  And we’re getting ready to go out on the field, and he’s saying, ‘The Beaver is out!  The Beaver is out!’  And I’m looking at this guy like he’s nuts.

Andrea Kremer, to Greg Robinson:  “You’re denying any knowledge of using this for motivational purposes?”

Robinson:  “Uh, absolutely.”

Alfred Williams:  “He carries it in his pocket and then, you know, before he goes on the field he has a puppet beaver and [laughter] . . . I can’t believe you asked me this, man, but it was great.  It’s great.

Pete Carroll:  “Probably the all-time ‘beave’ was the one on the goal line against Buffalo.”

Andrea Kremer:  “That hit led to an appearance by the Beaver in the 49ers’ game film.”

Gary Plummer:  “As soon as the hit occurred and of course Lee Woodall picked it up and ran it back for a touchdown, the next thing spliced in is about a 10-second clip of the most diligent, hard-working animal in the animal kingdom.  The beaver.”

Andrea Kremer:  “As the pot gets richer, 11 men go scurrying like a beaver, trying to force a fumble.  Sometimes forgetting the fundamentals.”

Jeff Lageman:  “We were in New York, we were playing Miami one time.  And I think we had a pot — it rolled over from one game to the next — and the pot was at about five or six thousand dollars.  And everybody puts in money.  That was the worst tackling performances we ever had.”

Andrea Kremer, to Pete Carroll:  “Do you remember that day?”

Carroll:  “Yeah, a little overboard on the emphasis that day, yeah.  That did happen.”

Lageman:  “It was pathetic.  Everybody was going for the ball.”

Andrea Kremer:  “The question is why?  Why do a couple of hundred dollars matter to players making millions?”

Junior Seau:  “It’s not the money.  It’s the ego.”

Troy Vincent:  “The ego gets involved.”

Cris Dishman:  “It’s the pride factor.”

Lamar Lathon:  “I think the biggest thing is just winning.  Being able to say, ‘Hey, you owe me.  Give me my money.’”

Dishman:  “Oh, we collect.  It’d be right after the game.  And trust me I had all the money pimped on my chest to let everyone know that I won the pot.”

Lageman:  “I mean it’s ridiculous.  Guys are making probably $100,000 a week, some of these guys.  And they’re getting cranked up over a couple hundred dollars cash pot.  I mean, big deal.”

Kremer:  “What does the NFL have to say about this incentive program that players insist is not a bounty?  A league spokesman said the ‘Smash for Cash’ program is within the rules as long as players use their own monies, the amounts are not exorbitant, and the payments are not for illegal hits.”

Now that the guy who was the Commissioner in 1996 will be presiding over the bounty appeal hearing, look for the “Smash for Cash” feature to be shown on October 30, when the players argue that they’re being punished for something that not very long ago in the grand scheme of things the NFL expressly condoned.

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94 Responses to ““Smash for Cash” video shows that pay-for-performance was accepted in 1996”
  1. mdd913 says: Oct 19, 2012 5:55 PM

    boom goes the dynamite

  2. steviemo says: Oct 19, 2012 5:57 PM

    Not the same at all. The NFL wanted this kind of thing ended several years later and eventually and specifically warned the Saints to stop the program when it was learned that they were still doing it (and lying about it).

  3. jimnaizeeum says: Oct 19, 2012 5:57 PM

    A lot was accepted 16 years…the game keeps changing

  4. prmpft says: Oct 19, 2012 5:57 PM

    he hand-picked the great SATAN – hopefully he is wiser in this instance…

  5. mikewasserson says: Oct 19, 2012 5:58 PM

    What animal is the most diligent worker in the animal kingdom? I’m not sure if the transcript touched upon that or not.

  6. blacknole08 says: Oct 19, 2012 5:58 PM

    Of course players did this back then, and they still do it today. Pay for performance goes on. That’s well known.

    BUT they did not pay to injure/put bounties on certain players, which is what the Saints did.

  7. panamon says: Oct 19, 2012 5:59 PM

    Big hits for small amounts can NOT be compared to a bounty on a player to leave the game for $10,000.

    People defending the Saints seem SO sure they’re absolutely innocent because the players say so, but how can you be sure when it’s been sworn that Vilma did put up money to knock star QBs out of playoff games that they didn’t intend to injure? How can you blindly accuse Goodell of being biased just for delivering punishment because you haven’t seen all the evidence? Some of you guys need to prepare for the possibility the team actually did wrong, it’s not a conspiracy just because it hasn’t been proven to you.

  8. mdd913 says: Oct 19, 2012 5:59 PM

    ^

    Says who? Roger Goodell? His word is not worth a damn thing these days, sorry.

  9. tincansailor981 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:00 PM

    Help us all by just making go away. Goody screwed up because he was way too heavy handed in handing down suspensions. Had he been reasonable about this would be a non-story.

  10. explosionsauce says: Oct 19, 2012 6:01 PM

    Am I the only one who remembers the audio of Williams taking out Crabtree’s acl? Not the same as this.

  11. nflofficeadmin says: Oct 19, 2012 6:05 PM

    It’s over now. Mr. Goodell would you please excuse yourself. We ALL need a new start.

  12. kdiesel904 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:06 PM

    They never said they were trying to hurt anyone. That’s the biggest difference.

  13. icecubeusedtobeangry says: Oct 19, 2012 6:07 PM

    You know who else had a Beaver? Winona, Winona had herself a big brown Beaver, and she showed it off to all her friends…

  14. justautumnwindbaby says: Oct 19, 2012 6:09 PM

    Uhhhh, where’s the part about paying each other to hurt the opposition?
    Two totally different concepts, if you ask me.

  15. mswravens says: Oct 19, 2012 6:11 PM

    Did anyone in Andrea Kremer’s piece talk about pay for injury? NO! That’s the difference. What these guys were doing was in good fun. Paying people to try to injure is just plain sick.

  16. uglynora says: Oct 19, 2012 6:12 PM

    Nobody EVER warned the players. The coaches were told to stop with the bounties. Goodell was told there were no bounties and he did nothing. Two years later, he decided, without ever documenting a rules change, that this kind of behavior was illegal and should be punished. He then set out to punish players on the FIRST DAY they ever heard the league was opposed to these programs. There was no fairness to this entire process.

  17. stampede101 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:13 PM

    There’s a difference b/w paying for performance (sacks, ints, forced fumbles, etc.) vs. paying for causing injury.

  18. zaggs says: Oct 19, 2012 6:13 PM

    Asbestos was once accepted as a good building material.

  19. ther3alslimshady says: Oct 19, 2012 6:13 PM

    It’s all in the context… They were not trying to injure most was for “big hits” or causing a turnover not hurting someone.

  20. jimthebuilder27 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:15 PM

    I miss Paul Tagliabue. Come back, you’ll be taken back with open arms!

  21. ridingwithnohandlebars says: Oct 19, 2012 6:15 PM

    ESPN used to also have a segment called JACKED UP!

  22. mdd913 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:16 PM

    but how can you be sure when it’s been sworn that Vilma did put up money to knock star QBs out of playoff games that they didn’t intend to injure?

    ————————————————————

    Because it’s been sworn by 10 times as many people that no such thing happened.

  23. tomtravis76 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:18 PM

    If the league was okay with this type of program in ’96, did they make the steps to put it in the rulebook so that it was now illegal?

  24. mdd913 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:18 PM

    BUT they did not pay to injure/put bounties on certain players, which is what the Saints did.
    —————————————————————-

    Says who? Roger Goodell? Please. EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has testified about this has said there was NEVER an intent to injure ANYONE!!!! including Gregg Williams himself!!!!

    Are you people actually this dense? or just incapable of reading??

  25. chargerdillon says: Oct 19, 2012 6:20 PM

    I dont exactly understand what the problem is if any of these players choose to spend their own earned money for a play-pool.

    If we were talking about big thousands or millions of dollars exchanging hands. My coworkers and even my boss are all in a company football work pool which I run. What is the difference from me having a pool here to the players having a pool for their job.

    Everything from this old footage indicates money exchanged hands for big plays, not big injury plays. I see ZERO emphasis on injury, and that being said, I see nothing wrong.

    They put their bodies on the line to earn big money. They can blow their big money however they see fit

  26. glac1 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:20 PM

    In the forties they used leather helmets.. In the 60′s and 70′s injured players actually played.. Until recently players were allowed to compete shortly after suffering a concussion… Times change so those actions have nothing to do with today’s game. As we continue to soften as a nation and constantly worry about being politically correct I expect more and more restrictions and limitations to be placed on teams and individuals as time marches forward.

  27. discosucs2005 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:24 PM

    “Beaver, as you know, I don’t know if you know or not, if you don’t watch Discovery it’s the most diligent worker of the animal kingdom”

    This may be the best thing I’ve ever read on this site.

  28. whatjusthapped says: Oct 19, 2012 6:29 PM

    Most beavers I’ve come across hardly rank up there with the smartest animals, in fact, quite the opposite. They are good eating though.

  29. hendeeze says: Oct 19, 2012 6:29 PM

    “A prima donna’s ACL for $10,000 please” – Greg Williams

  30. geniusfan says: Oct 19, 2012 6:30 PM

    “Now that the guy who was the Commissioner in 1996 will be presiding over the bounty appeal hearing, look for the “Smash for Cash” feature to be shown on October 30, when the players argue that they’re being punished for something that not very long ago in the grand scheme of things the NFL expressly condoned.”

    1996 was a very long time ago. First of all Roger Goodell wasn’t the commissioner of the NFL in 1996 which is kind of important.The Cowboys were relevant in 1996. Was Peyton Manning even a Vol then? Concussions were little more than an accepted part of the game in 1996. The players can bring this up all they want but who is going to argue against the protection of players by weeding these sorts of programs out of the league?

    If the players bring this up it will backfire. This is an indictment on what was wrong about the NFL in 1996, not a crutch for the Saints’ bounty boys to lean on.

    This is an irrelevant piece of information. I doubt the players even use this they must have a better strategy.

  31. Legion Of Boom says: Oct 19, 2012 6:31 PM

    Goodell has never gotten the Beaver….

  32. tdshouldbeinthehall says: Oct 19, 2012 6:32 PM

    I don’t know about anybody else but my wife’s beaver doesn’t seem to work much.

  33. macker1283 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:32 PM

    Who cares if it was accepted back in 1996? Goodell wasn’t even the commissioner. Back in 1996, guys who had concussions could get back into the game the very next play if they chose to. Back in 1996, Bill Belichick was considered a failed head coach. Things change with time.

  34. mjkelly77 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:32 PM

    Yeah and they used to wear leather helmets without face masks. So what’s your point?

  35. xxakshunxx says: Oct 19, 2012 6:38 PM

    I don’t get why people are giving the NFL grief over this… It’s ONLY because you have all these lawsuits from ex-players and money hungry lawyers, that they have to now follow through today and not allow this. If the players would stop crying about it after they retire, it wouldnt be an issue.

  36. whodeydaytonchapter says: Oct 19, 2012 6:39 PM

    shocking…no wait, it’s pretty much what everybody already knew.

  37. jimmylions says: Oct 19, 2012 6:40 PM

    The fact that the Saints had been repeatedly told this behavior was no longer allowed, and lied to the Commissioner when asked about program, pretty much nulifies all this talk about what was ok in 1996.

    Also – 16 years ago things were much different. Pushing a QB with both hands wasn’t an offense worthy of both an unnecessary roughness penalty and a fine.

    Nowadays, old timers like Butkus, Karras, and Nitschke would be banned from the league. There’s an old NFL films Fran Tarkenton highlight reel where Merlin Olson laughs about how the Rams d-line wanted to end Tarkenton’s career. Like it or don’t, the NFL isn’t the contact sport it used to be. Things that used to be ok are definitely not ok.

    In 2012, the emphasis is on protecting the owner’s investment in star players. Paying for cart-offs is definitely not going to fly.

  38. stellarperformance says: Oct 19, 2012 6:44 PM

    What has this got to do with paying bounties? Everybody likes “big plays.” So what if Reggie chose to pay for big plays.

    This is like comparing bird-watching photographers with pheasant hunters. Yeah, same field of play, yeah, they’re both chasing birds, but one “hunter” gets rewarded with a “good shot,” and the other bird gets blown away with a gut shot.

  39. roadbiscuit says: Oct 19, 2012 6:48 PM

    Tagliabue knew about it and approved as long as it was kept within limits. Non-issue.

  40. blacknole08 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:49 PM

    Says who? Roger Goodell? Please. EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has testified about this has said there was NEVER an intent to injure ANYONE!!!! including Gregg Williams himself!!!!

    ——————————————————

    - Look at Favre’s ankle after the 09-10 NFC championship.

    - Look at the Kurt Warner hit that ended his career (legal hit but still dirty).

    - Listen to what Gregg Williams said before the Super Bowl against the Colts about getting some “remember me shots” in and his audio speech before the 49ers playoff game earlier this year.

    - Vilma has a history of bounty hunting, dating back to his days at the U. He never challenged the ruling until he actually got suspended. If I were him and knew I was innocent, I would have been screaming I’m innocent from day one!

    - Sean Payton accepted responsibility for what went on. Why do that if you are “innocent?”

    Trust me, the evidence is there, plain as day. If you want to continue to be indenial then so be it.

  41. iceburgskin202 says: Oct 19, 2012 6:50 PM

    This was made an issue by the NFL when it looked at the lawsuits it was gonna face. It’s done at the college level too, what do all the tomahawks come from on FSU helmets the Buckeye on OSU helmets. It’s apart if the game and the NFL can’t deny it.

  42. sactogary says: Oct 19, 2012 6:54 PM

    Yes, and in other important breaking news, slavery was accepted in Georgia in 1860.

  43. uglynora says: Oct 19, 2012 6:54 PM

    The point between 1996 and today, is according to the NFLPA, there was never a document or rules change produced by the NFL stating that bounties were now illegal. That’s a pretty important point. If you change a rule, at some point it HAS to be documented, which it hadn’t been until recently. Now I know my point is pretty thin based on the Jets lineman being fined for a legal hit on Brian Cushing, but that’s not how things are supposed to work.

  44. packersownerandshareholder says: Oct 19, 2012 6:55 PM

    Great read

  45. daaabears says: Oct 19, 2012 7:00 PM

    Great, more fake fuel for the idiotic New Orleans fans that that are in total denial. Yes, I said TOTAL DENIAL.

  46. sabatimus says: Oct 19, 2012 7:01 PM

    Mike Ditka also said about his 1985 Bears team, to NFL Films: “We played to kill.”

  47. blackandbluedivision says: Oct 19, 2012 7:03 PM

    “Smash for Cash” Isn’t that how Lawrence Taylor got himself in trouble with the law?

  48. sactogary says: Oct 19, 2012 7:03 PM

    [Ken] Norton: “No question about it. That’s $500. That’s untaxed. I mean, that’s pretty good.”
    —————————————————–
    Oops.

    There’s no such thing as tax-exempt pay for performance, even from a teammate. It was untaxed only because it was under the table. Goodell will seem flexible and reasonable by comparison, if these guys get interviewed by the IRS. Norton and Co. are probably okay due to a statute of limitations, but more recent players should consult their tax advisor.

  49. clickablecontent says: Oct 19, 2012 7:05 PM

    There’s a lot of back-peddling by the players and NFLPA here: First they argued no bounty system exists. Then they argued Vilma, Fujita, etc. did not participate in the bounty system, dropping the first argument. Now they argue that the league shouldn’t be punishing these players for bounties because it was acceptable before. Looks like a defense on its heels to me.

  50. vbe2 says: Oct 19, 2012 7:08 PM

    1996 was 16 years ago. A lot of things were ok 16 years ago that are looked down on or are unacceptable now.

  51. chad504boy says: Oct 19, 2012 7:14 PM

    explosionsauce says:
    Oct 19, 2012 6:01 PM
    Am I the only one who remembers the audio of Williams taking out Crabtree’s acl? Not the same as this.

    ——————
    You see, your key word in that sentence is “Williams”, lets all sit and chew on that.

  52. dannythebisforbeast says: Oct 19, 2012 7:16 PM

    It’s called football…and it is officially dead

  53. hor2012 says: Oct 19, 2012 7:21 PM

    blacknole08
    Frist of all at no time did SP say what they were admitting to. For all we know it could be the fact that they lied about the incentive program. So, in response to your statement. If you choose to believe everything you hear from RG so be it. But, I promise you when this is over they’re going to be a whole lot of upset fans. And, you can be sure, the wont be from New Orleans

  54. dannythebisforbeast says: Oct 19, 2012 7:22 PM

    Used to be smash for cash
    Used to be NFL greatest hits videos
    Used to be Jacked up on ESPN
    Used to be football was a great sport.

    IMO the problems are today’s players don’t know how to properly tackle. You can lay smack on someone without using your head as a missile. The NFL is taking it way took far. Not being able to hit a receiver while he’s attempting to make a catch is a joke, as are the fines and alot of other pussificaton of the sport

  55. hor2012 says: Oct 19, 2012 7:27 PM

    daaabears says

    Great, more fake fuel for the idiotic New Orleans fans that that are in total denial. Yes, I said TOTAL DENIAL.

    Hows is any of this fake fuel. Saints fans didn’t produce the information that this was going on with the leagues knowledge long before bounty gate. Now, if you have a problem with us standing behind our team that’s fine. But, it seems to me the only person idiotic in all of this is you. You’re the only one that felt the need to resort to insults. And, in guess you haven’t been able to figure it out yet. I’m a life long Saints fan.

  56. thegreatgabbert says: Oct 19, 2012 7:45 PM

    The self effacing beavers on the other hand, are quick to deflect praise and credit for their reputation in the Animal Kingdom.

    “Have you ever seen hummingbirds at work?”, asked one of the industrious rodents, taking a quick break from his labors. “Or ants, how about them goddamn ants? They never stop and they’re a tiny fraction of our size. I don’t know how they do it, myself.

    Also, it’s not a ‘kingdom’ per say, if you guys in the media could help clear that up for us. We’re all just out here doing our own thing, and to be frank, lions don’t have a great rep with the rest of us. Great lazy buggers they are. Disney is a pain in the ass for us, when you get down to it. They usually get things wrong, but those are the memes that stick, eh? Anyway, thanks and have a great day, I’ve got to get back to gnawing tree limbs…..”.

  57. captainloaded says: Oct 19, 2012 7:50 PM

    Yes, the players at the time did not care for player safety. The leadership involved let it slide.

    Player safety became an argument for the union. Players want to sue the league for hiding the facts. Players paid players to hurt players. Player safety….I repeat player safety….Roger Goodell comes in and says, “I have a problem with this!!!”

    Roger you are wrong(sarcasm).

  58. shutupbrees says: Oct 19, 2012 8:01 PM

    Things that were legal in 1996:

    Horse Collar Tackles
    Hitting a QB in the head
    Decapitating WR
    Spearing
    Crackback blocks on Turnovers

    Shut the F up Saints and players Union

  59. blacknole08 says: Oct 19, 2012 8:05 PM

    hor2012 says: Oct 19, 2012 7:21 PM

    blacknole08
    Frist of all at no time did SP say what they were admitting to. For all we know it could be the fact that they lied about the incentive program. So, in response to your statement. If you choose to believe everything you hear from RG so be it. But, I promise you when this is over they’re going to be a whole lot of upset fans. And, you can be sure, the wont be from New Orleans

    —————————————————-

    Yea he did! He said he was sorry for his role in the bounty and took full responsibility. He even stated that he supported the league’s concern for player safety. They were given warning to stop but didn’t. If that is not an admission to some sort of bounty program I don’t know what is.

    I respect the fact that you support your team no matter what. But I think you will be thee one with egg on your face when this is all said and done!

  60. ericf70 says: Oct 19, 2012 8:13 PM

    Wake me up when the NFL learns the meaning of “burden of proof.”

  61. pizzon says: Oct 19, 2012 8:19 PM

    what exactly is the point of this article. so what if players had a pay per performance contest so what. I see nothin in the article that says it was a pay to injure program. besides Andrea Kramer needs to move onto another line of work maybe the enquirer would hire her to report smut.

  62. hor2012 says: Oct 19, 2012 8:31 PM

    blacknole08
    He never used the word bounty. The admission could have been for the incentive program and not stopping it. Now, I don’t think you ever heard any Saints fan say that they shouldn’t have been punished. The issue is the level of punishment. If RG would have taken the draft picks and suspended our coach for a few games this would all be over now. But, he didn’t do that. And, as far as lying about the issue. The last time I checked he wasn’t God. My issue is that it was too much. And, by the way I don’t think the suspensions are going to hold. PT isn’t going to keep them in place. That’s what I meant when I said they’re going to be fans mad

  63. stallyns1 says: Oct 19, 2012 8:33 PM

    So first the players involved were saying there was no bounty program even though the Saint’s defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has admitted as much. Now they’re saying that because a similar program was acceptable sixteen years ago they should get away with it?

    Guess what, pass interference was in the rule books 16 years ago but it wasn’t being called until the competition committee decided that it should be enforced after the Colts-Patriots playoff game. Just like when the NFL told the Saints that the bounty program wasn’t acceptable and to end it.

  64. hor2012 says: Oct 19, 2012 8:33 PM

    shutupbrees says:

    You shut the F up.

    Horse Collar Tackles
    Hitting a QB in the head
    Decapitating WR
    Spearing
    Crackback blocks on Turnovers

    The first time the league decided to crack down on any of these issues they didn’t do it by suspending a coach and player for the whole year

  65. btredway says: Oct 19, 2012 8:36 PM

    you could also hit a defenseless WR 16 years ago too… A lot of research and education on long term effects from injuries has made the NFL clean the game up, rightfully so whether the fans like it or not. I think this is a moot argument.

  66. Xenu D. Alien says: Oct 19, 2012 8:38 PM

    The former Commissioner working under the old CBA was ok with it. And? This is relevant to the current agreement how?

  67. fansinceshea says: Oct 19, 2012 8:49 PM

    Does June Cleaver know about this???

  68. vikingamericann says: Oct 19, 2012 8:55 PM

    “tdshouldbeinthehall | Oct 19, 2012, 6:32 PM EDT
    I don’t know about anybody else but my wife’s beaver doesn’t seem to work much.”

    It worked very hard for me.

  69. cheddarrob says: Oct 19, 2012 9:29 PM

    As I hav said from day 1. It’s all a publicity stunt by Goodell.

  70. louisianafootballfan says: Oct 19, 2012 9:45 PM

    This is relevant to the current argument because unlike horse collar tackles, spearing, hitting the QB in the head, the rules have never been changed to eliminate pay for performance programs. By the logic people are using here, I could be pulled over by the cops and told, “What you’re doing isn’t technically illegal, and I used to think it was OK, but I don’t really like it now, so guess what. You’re going to jail”. For those of you saying it’s a different league since 1996, sure, you’re right. Make the rules reflect that, and then punish people for breaking them.

  71. imcmillan says: Oct 19, 2012 9:48 PM

    Playing for big plays is not the same as the Saints paying players for injuring other players. It is like saying performance incentives in a player’s contract today is the same as what the Saint were doing in the bounty program. Pretty big difference IMO.

  72. bathroomben7 says: Oct 19, 2012 9:49 PM

    Anyone who’s not a bandwaggoning, in denial, fly-by-night Saints fan can clearly see there is a difference between this case in 1996 and what the Saints were doing. The key phrase is “intent to injure.” Rewarding someone for a big hit is ok, encouraging and rewarding someone for purposefully hurting somebody is not. End of story.

  73. blacknole08 says: Oct 19, 2012 10:01 PM

    @hor2012

    He didn’t have to say the word “bounty.” He needed to save face and downplay what actually happened. Still, the fact is that he took full responsibility for what happened and also stated that he supported the NFL’s position on player safety. Why would he make that statement if player safety was not involved?

    His response sounded self-incriminatory and seems like an admission to something sinister if you ask me.

  74. brokentreehousemusic says: Oct 19, 2012 10:05 PM

    Huffington Post has the video.

  75. jharmon64 says: Oct 19, 2012 10:25 PM

    Yawn

  76. Dave61548 says: Oct 19, 2012 10:35 PM

    You guys aren’t getting it. All the things brought up that have changed in he last 16 years were RULE changes. There have been NO rule changes about incentive programs. The Saints had a pay for performance program just as described in this article, there have Ben no rule changes to prohibit it, yet now suddenly the NFL wants to change the rules. It is absurd that things have gone his far – never should have been an issue to start with.

  77. daveman8403 says: Oct 19, 2012 10:43 PM

    I would say it is relevant because he is now presiding over the appeals.

  78. tarr123 says: Oct 19, 2012 10:46 PM

    Commissioner please proceed…..

  79. mgifford15 says: Oct 19, 2012 11:37 PM

    This is one of those stories that started out very interesting, but has now turned into the most annoying, overhyped stories of all time. Truth is New Orleans messed up, and crossed the line. The players involved have been punished, and if they weren’t over the hill, they would take the punishment like men. And now, we’re bringing up stories from 1996? Really? When it boils down to it, it’s a story about a defensive coordinator that has since moved on, two over aged, over hyped linebackers and a qb who does nothing but rip the league that has made him a millionaire beyond his wildest dreams. Advice to the saints players, coaches, and any others involved in the organization…nut up and take the punishment. God next season can’t come soon enough. Hearing about all these players whining has become beyond annoying.

    Signed,

    Who dat?

    Annoyed nfl fans

  80. ilovefoolsball says: Oct 20, 2012 12:03 AM

    It’s exhausting reading so many misguided comments saying “There’s a difference between paying for plays and injuries”.

    The difference is that ALL Saints players and coaches have denied providing or offering payment for injuring another player.

    The statements from Payton and Loomis that so many people loooove to point to as proof of admittance make no mention ever of any kind of “bounty” program. They only accept responsibility for having a pay for performance program under their watch.

    Furthermore, ZERO New Orleans players injured opposing players.

    Please drill a hole in your thick skulls and pour some knowledge in there.

  81. bgrab1 says: Oct 20, 2012 12:53 AM

    The Greg Williams speech was the pre game banter that is heard in just about every teams locker room in the NFL. It was a motivational speech with nothing mentioned in it at all about paying to injure someone. The pay for performance program the Saints were running actually penalized players for injuries or penalties resulting from big plays. The Saints were actually one of the least penalized defenses in the league at the time the NFL claims this bounty situation went on.

    Nothing to see here but Brad Childress getting all but hurt because his team got beat and then making up lies to “Viking Fan Boy” Roger Goodell

  82. RUAHORNH8R says: Oct 20, 2012 2:02 AM

    So what!!!! Blacks couldn’t vote in 1960 , we grow up & things change! What’s your point?

  83. wolfmanpatriot says: Oct 20, 2012 3:22 AM

    uglynora says: Oct 19, 2012 6:12 PM

    Nobody EVER warned the players. The coaches were told to stop with the bounties. Goodell was told there were no bounties and he did nothing. Two years later, he decided, without ever documenting a rules change, that this kind of behavior was illegal and should be punished.
    ================================
    PLUS, Goofell does not have the authority to change rules. Only the owners 2/3 majority votes can do this.

  84. gingerkidboston2012 says: Oct 20, 2012 4:10 AM

    1996 was 16 years ago not 2 or even 5 years ago. Let’s not act like the film was made last year. And let’s also not pretend that these current NFL aren’t aware of what they are doing and the consequences for it. Unless they’re really that dumb. Then they should be treated like children. Just waiting for the day Vilma turns 50 and tries to sue the NFL because can’t remember his own name while he’s soiling his depends.

  85. brianjoates says: Oct 20, 2012 7:57 AM

    Of course many things have changed since 1996, but everytime the league makes changes they have them documented so all parties know of the changes moving forward.

    So, if the league was okay with an unwritten rule in 1996 and they have now decided that the unwritten rule is not okay, did the league ever document that the cash incentives given out beyond their normal pay is illegal?

    Any program that is arranged to end another mans career should be banned.

  86. joetoronto says: Oct 20, 2012 8:04 AM

    Junior Seau: “It’s not the money. It’s the ego.”

    In the end this is why the coward killed himself, his ego.

  87. pobreezy says: Oct 20, 2012 9:13 AM

    this it the ACTUAL statment that everyone paraphrases from sean payton:

    “I share and fully support the league’s concerns and goals on player safety. It is and should be paramount. Respecting our great game and the NFL shield is extremely important to me. Our organization will implement all necessary protections and protocols and I will be more vigilant going forward. I am sorry for what happened and, as head coach, take full responsibility. Finally I want to thank (Saints owner Tom Benson), our players and all Saints fans for their overwhelming support.”

    context is all you can use to relate this statement to pfp or pfi.
    most saints haters see this as an admission of a bounty program whereas, if you heard interviews after this statement was released, sean payton was vehemently against the term “bounty” used to describe their program under question. he, as well as joe vitt and end every other player/coach completely deny a bounty program. always has.
    but i guess if they did it would have shown on the field, right?
    that’s why they had the highest causing of injury of any team.
    oh wait… they had the second lowest….

  88. thejuddstir says: Oct 20, 2012 9:21 AM

    Red herrings………….let’s never confuse pay for performance with pay to injure. We all know Drew Brees needs an explanation of this but everyone outside of Louisiana understands perfectly well.

  89. commonsensedude says: Oct 20, 2012 9:35 AM

    “Smash for Cash?” Another reason to “Wish for a new Commish.”

  90. bosspower says: Oct 20, 2012 9:43 AM

    I dnt believe this case was handled properly by Goodell. Brett Favre and Kuret Warner were named in the report and meetings and court proceedings took place but not one time did they subpeona Favre and Warner and examine what they felt about the situation. I mean they were the focal points. The whole case is built around them, so Y not include Favre and Warner in the investigation process, and/or Legal proceedings? On the Appeals Proceedings I hope these 2 players are called in. The NFl says they are the victims, so like a victim of any crime they should take the stand and tell their side of the story. If Favre and Warner dnt feel like Victims then where is the crime???? If they do feel like victims then carry-on with the sharing of Allegded Evidence.

  91. pauliepennino says: Oct 20, 2012 9:57 AM

    does anybody get that the suspensions are about more than the bounty system? (I’d argue way more) They’re about the fact that a lot of people lied over and over to investigators about it? I have never read the CBA or an NFL contract, but I suspect somewhere in those documents lies language about personal conduct and to me, that would include conduct during an NFL Security investigation, the equivalent of Loss Prevention and Risk Management for working folks like me.

  92. jimmysee says: Oct 20, 2012 10:30 AM

    Ah the good old days — when men were men and the ladies were happy for it!

  93. shlort says: Oct 20, 2012 3:31 PM

    looks like the dreaded asterisk should be put on every team that ever played a game!.. lol.. I cant believe fans made such a big deal about the Saints “scandal” when every team did it until the NFL said it violated te salary cap (which it doesnt because the teams arent paying it). No wonder all the Saints players and coaches are POed about it.

  94. barrywhodat says: Oct 23, 2012 6:48 PM

    Most of the negative responses toward The SAINTS are written by people who hate them, people ignorant to The TRUTH or just pure idiots, there is no truth anywhere showing the SAINTS trying to hurt fellow players in the nfl. It justs a myth that goodell wrongly created and spread, it never happened, as a fan I didn’t see it, but neither did the referees, or the announcers, or the league office, or mostly the SAINTS FANS, in your ignorance you can say we’re in denial, but in truth it’s you who’s in denial. You still believe the first thing you heard in March, but it can’t be proved, and the reason why because its NOT TRUE, if you don’t believe go look at the facts not something writte, or dicussed by writer, radio host, sport shows, espn, etc… Who are all making they’re cash off their personal cash cow the nfl.

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