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Saints hang on, need a late penalty to beat the Bucs

Doug Martin, Malcolm Jenkins, Jonathan Casillas AP

The Saints played just enough defense, and had just the right amount of Drew Brees, and now they have a winning streak.

After coming back from a two-touchdown deficit in the first half, the Saints roared back for a 35-28 win over the Buccaneers. The result leaves both teams at 2-4.

While Drew Brees’ 377 yards and four touchdowns were amazing, the Saints took momentum after a Malcolm Jenkins play which saved a touchdown for a defense which was horrid in an 0-4 start.

Jenkins walked down Bucs redeiver Vincent Jackson on a 95-yard pass, and the Saints then held the Buccaneers to nothing on a goal-line stand which practically ended the game. Jenkins’ play was the kind of effort and impact stop the Saints lacked in losing their first four. And they’ll hardly go down as a dominant stop-side, but when Brees is your quarterback, there’s only so good you have to be.

The Bucs didn’t fold in the second half, and threw into the end zone with a chance to tie at the gun. But Bucs wideout Mike Williams stepped out of bounds, negating an apparent touchdown to end the game.

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57 Responses to “Saints hang on, need a late penalty to beat the Bucs”
  1. thestrategyexpert says: Oct 21, 2012 4:30 PM

    Plus the Bucs had plenty of time for 4 snaps. There was 20 seconds when they used a couple to spike the ball. That time was PLENTY to run 3 plays and still have at least 1 tick for a 4th play. They lost due to stupidity of the Bucs, not because of a penalty.

    Carolina also made a back clock mngmt mistake too, so it’s nice to see both teams end up with the loss after mucking up the game with irresponsible clock strategy.

  2. egomaniac247 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:32 PM

    He didn’t step out of bounds. He was pushed out of bounds.

    The refs blew that call – should have been pass interference.

    If this had been the replacement refs they’d be crucified for deciding the outcome of a game again.

  3. bucrightoff says: Oct 21, 2012 4:32 PM

    Bucs pass defense might be worse than the Saints. Obviously not scoring after the 95-yard play was the game.

  4. bunjy96 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:32 PM

    Thought he was pushed out, which is a penalty

  5. ghjjf says: Oct 21, 2012 4:34 PM

    Illegal contact to push Jackson out of bounds that wasn’t called. Second week in a row that the refs help the Saints win a game.

  6. whereyaat says: Oct 21, 2012 4:34 PM

    According to Mike Pereira, the WR becomes eligible after reestablishing back in bounds. Everyone agrees that Williams did reestablish.

    What Pereira said the negation of the TD turned on is that WR cannot be the first person to touch the ball. This assumes that the ball was in the air when the WR’s feet were both back in bounds.

    If you freeze frame the widescreen video shot – the ball leaves Freeman’s hand as the WR’s feet are both back in the end zone. This raises the question: Do you need more than both feet back “in bounds” to “reestablish?” Or did they just blow that call?

  7. sfsaintsfan says: Oct 21, 2012 4:36 PM

    Vincent Jackson pushed off all game….

    Good call by the refs.

    Good win by the Saints.

  8. snookau says: Oct 21, 2012 4:39 PM

    Saints… still getting Katrina calls after all these years.

    If that would’ve happened to the Saints, it would be the biggest controversy of the year.

    By the way, for all the morons crying about the replacement refs, these regular ones are just as bad.

  9. snookau says: Oct 21, 2012 4:40 PM

    As usual, Fox scrambles to cover for the NFL. Not surprised. Pereira is just towin the line.

  10. roxpeiete says: Oct 21, 2012 4:41 PM

    Learn the rules. Once qb leaves the pocket, there is no illegal contact rule.

  11. brutusmandingo says: Oct 21, 2012 4:42 PM

    ridiculous bad buccaneers pass defense guess they are missing aqib and lack of scoring on the first 4 and goal and that last td should’ve held up especially if the db pushed Williams out of bounds Schiano is obviously going learn the hard way to because that unsportsmanlike conduct penalty apparently was a play he said worked in college boy as a Bucs fan another heartbreaker smh ugh and I freakin hate the Saints

  12. Stiller43 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:42 PM

    He didnt STEP out of bounds. He was pushed.

  13. sabatimus says: Oct 21, 2012 4:42 PM

    The real question is whether a WR can reestablish himself after being pushed out, which he blatantly was.

  14. tbtrojan says: Oct 21, 2012 4:47 PM

    So much for needing the real officials back before they cost teams games.
    Williams didn’t run out of bound, he was pushed out and then reestablished himself before catching the ball.
    It was a clear mistake by the officials BUT all it did was offset the other clear mistake earlier in the game when Freemen threw what would have been a pick 6 but the refs incorrectly ruled (TWICE) the ball hit the ground.

    The refs, real or replacement are useless.
    It’s time to start over with people that aren’t legally blind or bias.

  15. glynners says: Oct 21, 2012 4:47 PM

    call it even for the blown call on the Harper interception..

  16. sfsaintsfan says: Oct 21, 2012 4:48 PM

    Mike Pereira is wrong.

    A receiver is ineligible if he goes out of bounds, regardless of whether he re-establishes himself inbounds, UNLESS he was forced out of bounds as a result of illegal contact, etc.

    Rule 8, Section 1, Article 6 (d):

    Article 6: Ineligible Receivers:

    (d) An eligible receiver who has been out of bounds prior to or during a pass, even if he has re-established himself inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands.

    Vincent Jackson was not an eligible receiver and would not become eligible unless a penalty had been called on the Saints for illegal contact, defensive holding or defensive pass interference. No penalty was called, therefore Vincent Jackson was an ineligible receiver regardless of whether he reestablished himself inbounds after he went out of bounds.

  17. eballa1 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:48 PM

    Mike Pereira ‏@MikePereira:

    In TB not illegal contact because the QB was out of the pocket and you can’t come back in and be the first to touch.

    Since Freeman was out of pocket, there’s no illegal contact for pushing the receiver out of bounds. Play was called correctly.

  18. annex50 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:49 PM

    (d) An eligible receiver who has been out of bounds prior to or during a pass, even if he has re-established himself inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands.
    EXCEPTION: If an eligible receiver is FORCED out of bounds by a foul by a defender, he will become eligible to legally touch the pass…

    It should have been a penalty! Enough said! Refs suck again!

  19. westclaims says: Oct 21, 2012 4:49 PM

    The Chargers say they are cooperating fully with the league, with regard to an accusation of using stickem.

    I know this has nothing to do with the Saints. But that doesn’t stop this site form doing the same thing.

  20. egomaniac247 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:49 PM

    Pereira also said that there was no PI because Freeman was out of the pocket.

    How does that work? So DB’s can start throwing WR’s down if the QB rolls out on a bootleg????

  21. thelastpieceofcheese says: Oct 21, 2012 4:49 PM

    Bucs will not win games as long as they reflect their mafia wannabe coach!

  22. ilovefoolsball says: Oct 21, 2012 4:53 PM

    Sounds like a bunch of sore loser Bucs fans, watching from the comfort of their home, because the Saints fans bailed them out and sold out their STILL half empty stadium.

    Bravo Bucs fans, bravo.

  23. mindbogglinggg says: Oct 21, 2012 4:58 PM

    As the QB is out of pocket, it is not an illegal contact. Weird but it’s a rule.

  24. pb420 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:59 PM

    I’ve been screaming this for years as the “real” refs have blown numerous calls against the Bucs. Nothing is more stinging and putting salt on the wound than for the league to apologize during the week for a blown call. Doesn’t change the win/loss column, and we didn’t have that game gifted to us like the saints did. They ARE the league’s sympathy case.

  25. paulitik74 says: Oct 21, 2012 4:59 PM

    Isn’t funny how the refs always seems to benefit the Ain’ts in close games and wins. The refs tried to give them the Packer game, and gave them the Chargers and Bucs game.

    Something else smells funny down in the Big Easy besides the urine and vomit soaked streets.

  26. westclaims says: Oct 21, 2012 5:00 PM

    It seems a lot of win-loss records are being “cleaned up”, now that the real refs are back.

  27. freethinker13 says: Oct 21, 2012 5:01 PM

    Oh my gosh, listen to the whambulances…….Saints need the refs to get a win??? Really? I told you folks last night, turn your backs on the Saints at your own peril. Goodell only made it easy for the other 31 teams to compete by removing the Saints head coach, GM, and Asst. Coach. All things being even, which they are obviously NOT, the Saints are really holding their own. I suspect that they have finally gotten their grove. Brees will make this team a contender, Goodell and the haters are not happy at this thought, haha…..

  28. njsteelersfan says: Oct 21, 2012 5:04 PM

    I’m not a Bucs nor a Saints fan but the Bucs WON that game !!! That ref should be fined and ride the bench for two weeks .

  29. brutusmandingo says: Oct 21, 2012 5:07 PM

    no Saints didn’t help sellout the game as much as they want to take credit for funny thing is Breed worried me if we only played a tad better d but that last call was blown no matter the rule its archaic

  30. coolzog says: Oct 21, 2012 5:11 PM

    The Saints needed the refs help to get them to the Superbowl, so it only makes sense they help them in the regular season too…

  31. phillyphever says: Oct 21, 2012 5:12 PM

    freethinker13 says: Oct 21, 2012 5:01 PM

    Oh my gosh, listen to the whambulances…….Saints need the refs to get a win??? Really? I told you folks last night, turn your backs on the Saints at your own peril. Goodell only made it easy for the other 31 teams to compete by removing the Saints head coach, GM, and Asst. Coach. All things being even, which they are obviously NOT, the Saints are really holding their own. I suspect that they have finally gotten their grove. Brees will make this team a contender, Goodell and the haters are not happy at this thought, haha…..

    Yeah…not with a defense that gave up 400+ yards passing to Josh Freeman. Just hope for an 8-8 season.

  32. kellij666 says: Oct 21, 2012 5:15 PM

    listen to you bunch of whiney losers. saints won, deal with it. who dat baby!!!!!!! see you in the dome losers!!!!!!

  33. sfsaintsfan says: Oct 21, 2012 5:19 PM

    No Illegal Contact on the play because QB was outside the pocket when he threw the ball.

    No Pass Interference on the play because the legal”contact” happened before the QB threw the ball.

    No possibility of the offensive player to re-establish himself because there was no defensive foul on the play.

    Play was called correctly by the refs, unlike the interception by Harper which was clearly a wrong call. The ball never hit the ground.

    You might not like it, but the correct ruling was made on the play at the end of the game. Incomplete pass, game over.

  34. pauliepennino says: Oct 21, 2012 5:23 PM

    the Saints aren’t out of it, but really, let’s be reasonable here….they’ve beaten the Chargers and the Bucs. They are in 2nd place in their own division which they have no chance of winning. They aren’t mathematically eliminated but short of going undefeated the rest of the way, they will need a great deal of help to get in.

  35. egomaniac247 says: Oct 21, 2012 5:25 PM

    “In TB not illegal contact because the QB was out of the pocket and you can’t come back in and be the first to touch.

    Since Freeman was out of pocket, there’s no illegal contact for pushing the receiver out of bounds. Play was called correctly.”

    So if a QB does a fake hand off and rolls out on the bootleg, looking down field….the DB can throw the WR down or push him out of bounds?

  36. fmwarner says: Oct 21, 2012 5:25 PM

    I can’t figure out who’s dumber – the people who continue to insist that the real refs are just as bad as the replacements, or the people who still think the league has a soft spot for the Saints even after the bounty nonsense.

  37. uglynora says: Oct 21, 2012 5:26 PM

    Snookau, you have to be an absolute ass to bring Katrina into this. Is that your idea of a good response? Great. Hopefully one day your I.Q. will reach double digits. Until then, keep posting here bro. As for the game, the refs took a Saints TD away on a clear int. and return, so the score finished where it would if your interpretation of the rules was correct, which it isn’t. You a all right. The NFal had an agenda where they would take the Saints’ entire season away, and then give it back incrementally through various questionable canals over the course of the season. It’s a hell of a conspiracy.

  38. flyer99 says: Oct 21, 2012 5:31 PM

    People, learn the rules.

    Freeman was out of the pocket, therefore it was COMPLETELY legal for Robinson to push the receiver out of bounds. That is NOT illegal contact.

    For all those people crying about the refs, Harper intercepted the ball and would have run it back for a touchdown, but the refs (wrongly) called it an incomplete pass. Even once we challenged, it was upheld as an incomplete pass, even though all the camera angles showed Harper with his hands clearly under the ball – that ball did not touch the ground!

    That was a GIFT from the refs. Stop crying.

  39. tbtrojan says: Oct 21, 2012 5:39 PM

    njsteelersfan says: Oct 21, 2012 5:04 PM

    I’m not a Bucs nor a Saints fan but the Bucs WON that game !!! That ref should be fined and ride the bench for two weeks .
    —————————————–

    Really as a Bucs fan who watched the game I was under the impression that it would have tied the game not given us a win.
    The refs always mess up calls that would allow the Bucs to take it to overtime (see the Lions game in 2010).

  40. evilbilly3 says: Oct 21, 2012 5:57 PM

    Not like I knew this, I just heard it on NFL network and then saw some people posted it here (reading posts before ranting can help you not appear dumb). Freeman scrambled out of the pocket, there is no illegal contact. I guess it’s like a tipped ball for pass interference. The Refs got it right, I didn’t know it at the time. Bad luck I guess because those Bucs where playing their butts off.

  41. evilbilly3 says: Oct 21, 2012 6:03 PM

    “All things being even, which they are obviously NOT, the Saints are really holding their own. I suspect that they have finally gotten their grove. Brees will make this team a contender, Goodell and the haters are not happy at this thought, haha…..”

    They need a stud DT to play 2 gap and help collapse the pocket. They should trade up in the draft next year.

  42. pb420 says: Oct 21, 2012 6:09 PM

    Our pass defense failed horribly. If we had played to the capabilities than these plays would have been irrelevant. Unfortunately, they were not and our pass D gave up ungodly amounts of yards. Here’s to hoping that we learn from this and improve. Snookau I agree 100%. The saints are the biggest sympathy case in the NFL, and all these homers on this board prove it with their asinine commentary.

  43. thedownwardspiral says: Oct 21, 2012 6:12 PM

    If all Buc fans are as knowledgable as their fans on here seem to be, it’s no wonder they can’t sell out games when the NFL is at its highest popularity ever.

  44. thestrategyexpert says: Oct 21, 2012 6:47 PM

    The only thing that is a problem here is the same thing that I complain about in almost every single week of games that is ever played, and that is the NFL rulebook needs an overhaul!!!!

  45. genericuser8888 says: Oct 21, 2012 7:03 PM

    Hey, Bucs fans, with all your complaining… Why aren’t you guys mentioning that interception that the refs stole from the Saints? The Saints challenged it, and it obviously did not touch the ground (from multiple angles). If it hadn’t been for that rip-off, the Saints probably would have been up by 14 points.

  46. gerttownmomo says: Oct 21, 2012 7:13 PM

    when the quarterback leaves the pocket he becomes a runner even though as long as he’s behind the line of scrimmage he can throw a pass.

    now that the quarterback has established himself a runner, the receiver becomes a blocker. hence the rule.

    what’s so hard to understand about that?

    nevermind the fact that he was ‘forced’ out of bounds not PUSHED. it’s coverage technique taught from an early age in football. the receiver wants to flirt with the out of bounds line force him out. the defensive back is entitled to the same piece of turf!

    it was the referees gift of a ‘non interception’ that kept the bucks IN the game in the first place. THAT was an incorrect call, unlike the one at the end of the game.

    GO PACK!

  47. mborz says: Oct 21, 2012 7:37 PM

    First, I don’t root for either of these teams, but enjoyed watching the end of this game.

    Based on what Pereira explained, and what others here have reiterated, it does look like the correct call based on the rules.

    The rules seem odd here though. If you can’t be the first to touch the ball in that situation, you’re pretty much out of the play.

    So once the QB is out of the pocket (pretty common on this kind of play), what’s to keep all of the DB’s from just shoving the receivers out of bounds? Seems easy to do since there’s not a lot of field to work with in this scenario.

    Maybe I missed something in the explanation.

  48. judsonjr says: Oct 21, 2012 8:01 PM

    Freeman wasn’t out of the Pocket at the point when the player was pushed though. The ball was snapped from the left hash and Freeman was a half step outside the hash when the shove occurred.

    As far as I know, you have to be outside the tackle box to be “out of the pocket”.

  49. gerttownmomo says: Oct 21, 2012 8:08 PM

    So once the QB is out of the pocket (pretty common on this kind of play), what’s to keep all of the DB’s from just shoving the receivers out of bounds? Seems easy to do since there’s not a lot of field to work with in this scenario.

    ==============================

    what’s to keep the receiver from shoving the def. back to the ground? if the qb becomes a runner, thus making the wr a blocker, the db has the right to fight through the block. hence the rule.

    if the qb stays in the pocket it’s obvious it’s a pass, if he leaves the pocket he can be a runner OR a passer making all bets off in the fairness of play.

  50. crawfish2011 says: Oct 21, 2012 8:30 PM

    It was the correct call. Think about it…. imagine Vick, RG III or Cam Newton outside of the pocket on a bootleg. The CB doesn’t know if it’s a run or pass. The WR might be trying to block the CB. Prior to the ball being thrown both the WR and CB can push/jam (NOT HOLD) each other. If the WR would have pushed the CB (prior to Freeman passing the ball) and stayed inbounds it would have also ruled a TD.

  51. brutusmandingo says: Oct 21, 2012 8:55 PM

    what pick that hit the ground smh

  52. namelessfacelessfan says: Oct 21, 2012 9:29 PM

    You people kill me, really you do.

    The Saints are NFL’s sympathy case and get lots of help huh?

    So, the league CRIPPLES the franchise during a possible historic season (run for Superbowl in home stadium), completely blasting the organization for months dragging the team’s name through the mud to where the average NFL fan now thinks the team is full of criminals.

    BUT, there gonna give the Saints a few calls here and there.

    Cause they just love them so much.

    Like nuking Hiroshima and then dropping down a few bottles of water to try to alleviate the people’s pain.

  53. louisianafootballfan says: Oct 21, 2012 9:57 PM

    You Bucs fans really are the best. I’m surprised you’re still complaining about the call because you all watch the game from home instead of your stadium, so surely you have been updated on the rule. Freeman was out of the pocket. Receiver becomes possible blocker. Receiver forced out of bounds. Receiver is now ineligible to be the first to touch the ball. End of story. Quit your whining and learn the rules before you comment (ignorantly) on one.

  54. preakin says: Oct 22, 2012 12:02 AM

    What people forget is bucs have outscored thier oppenents this year, they beat the saints in total offense and defense, but lost. Its a young team trying to put it all together. I love how everyone DOGS the 24 yr old freeman, guess who had the better game today??? FREEMAN NOT BREES! Oh crap. Oh yeah Saints fans gain some class, i was at the game, #189 with my prostate cancer survivor father who didnt miss a game while going thru his treatments, and we both put saint fans as most arrogant know nothing fans out there, all they scream is who dat? Wow intellegent, and i put you worse than yankee and red sox fans, and ive seen them in action by being at many rays games. Saints fans, your 2-4, where were you 10 years ago? Oh wait you sucked, and without brees your the trashcan of the league. Stop flag waving and respect the stadium your in. Grow up saints fans your 2-4 your done.

  55. mborz says: Oct 22, 2012 12:54 AM

    @gerttownmomo: It’s a lot easier for a defender to shove a receiver a bit to get them out of bounds (like what happened today) then for a receiver to take a defender down. That’s my whole point, seems like with very little effort, the WR can be taken out of the play.

    Again, I don’t root for either team. But I think if a receiver was legally shoved out in this scenario, they should still be able to be the first to touch the ball if they re-establish. I’m sure people smarter than me have thought about this though, I would just like to know the reasoning behind the rule.

  56. whereyaat says: Oct 22, 2012 1:48 AM

    I forgot to address the “got pushed out of bounds” talk in my analysis.

    Freeman did appear to be out of the tackle box when the shove occurred (it occurred about 2-3 seconds before he threw the ball, and he threw the ball far away from the tackle box).

    Therefore, it is not illegal contact by the DB on the WR. This raises the question of whether the WR reestablished himself inbounds.

    According to Mike Pereira, the WR becomes eligible after reestablishing back in bounds. Everyone agrees that Williams did reestablish.

    What Pereira said the negation of the TD turned on is that WR cannot be the first person to touch the ball. This assumes that the ball was in the air when the WR’s feet were both back in bounds.

    If you freeze frame the widescreen video shot – the ball leaves Freeman’s hand as the WR’s feet are both back in the end zone. This raises the question: Do you need more than both feet back “in bounds” to “reestablish?” Or did they just blow that call?

    *(Have they ever defined “reestablished,” or had a really close call like this one that went in favor of the WR?)

  57. bucforever says: Oct 23, 2012 10:42 AM

    The penalty did not matter! The Bucs were out coached. Stupid penalties, bad clock management ,no pressure to speak of on Drew Brees and terrible goal line play calling all point to bad coaching. And so the learning curve continues for a team that could be 5-0 with the help of one play here and there.

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