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Bucs tried to blow up Peyton’s victory formation

Manning Getty Images

Forgotten in the Buccaneers’ four-game winning streak followed by a one-point loss that happened with Tampa in possession of the ball is the fact that the Bucs have a habit under coach Greg Schiano of contesting victory formation late in one-score games.

They did it on Denver on Monday, trailing the Broncos by eight.

Yes, the Broncos.  As in Peyton Manning’s Broncos.

Mike Silver of Yahoo! Sports writes that it was “disconcerting” to watch Eli’s less mobile brother move away from the scrum.  Silver also decries the practice.  “Quick, let’s take a poll,” Silver writes.  “Voting yes, Greg Schiano and a few thousand blindly loyal Bucs fans.  Voting no, everyone else on earth. The nays have it.”

While the nays may have it, it’s not unanimous.  I’m not a Bucs fan, blindly loyal or otherwise.  But I think that every game should be played until every game is over.  In fact, it’s far less problematic that the Bucs did it on Sunday because the fact that they did it back in Week Two against Eli’s team made it obvious to any future opponents of the Buccaneers that they needed to be ready to — God forbid — play football for one more play.

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155 Responses to “Bucs tried to blow up Peyton’s victory formation”
  1. showside says: Dec 3, 2012 1:37 PM

    Good for them. Down by a touchdown or less, with time on the clock you try to get the ball and tie the game.

  2. fuglyflorio says: Dec 3, 2012 1:38 PM

    Teams do this rather than a QB sneak to avoid needless injuries. It’s common practice in the NFL.

    It’s a classless move to crash it. Now it’s become Schiano’s classless trademark. Key word … classless.

  3. liner1900 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:38 PM

    Earlier this year in fear of retaliation, the Bucs showed everyone how to kneel against this defense. You do it in the shotgun.

  4. bagjr387 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:38 PM

    I have no problem with this in a one score game….think about it, if Peyton fumbles the snap, and all the D lineman are just standing around, it would be a lost oppurtunity

  5. FinFan68 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:40 PM

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The reason there is a RB behind the QB in that formation is specifically because of the chance of a fumbled exchange. If there is cause for concern, shotgun the kneeldown. I would rather my team play to win when there is still a chance (however small). Shiano’s message is simple: never give up.

  6. northshorejag says: Dec 3, 2012 1:40 PM

    when it’s check mate, you’re done.

  7. brianc34 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:41 PM

    In a 1 score game I think this action is totally appropriate. Causing a fumble could make all the difference. If it’s more than 8 points, then it’s just not necessary.

  8. jimbo75025 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:42 PM

    Nothing would have made me happier than Peyton faking the victory formation then him throwing a bomb for a TD.

    One of these days somebody is going to do that if Schiano keeps pulling this crap.

  9. jf203 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:42 PM

    Agree totally..what the Manning boys have to go out for a coronation kneel down play and everyone kiss tgheir butt..screw them play til the clock has no time yet Schiano is right in his approach to the game

  10. isphet71 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:42 PM

    We should also just give a team attempting an extra point the extra point without making them kick it.

    Don’t forget just skipping kickoffs and calling everything a touchback. Since that’s all a kickoff is any more.

    In fact, let’s not even play the games. Let’s just figure out who is supposed to win and just say they won. That way, no one will get hurt.

    Or we could quit whining when people are trying to win, no matter the odds against it.

    As long as the odds of winning are greater than zero, teams should try anything and everything to win. Period.

  11. manningbowl88 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:42 PM

    i still dont see an issue withthis.. your down a TD, u cause a fumble and u get the ball back with a chance to win..who cares.

    he did this to my QB ELI-te in week 2 and i didnt have a prob then, still dont.. and i respect the coach double for being consistant.. coaches always say never give up..apparently he lives it

  12. football025 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:42 PM

    You play to win the game

  13. inthearex says: Dec 3, 2012 1:43 PM

    You have 59 minutes and 55 seconds to control the outcome if the game with REAL football. That’s not football and it’ll come back and bite them.

  14. lightcleric says: Dec 3, 2012 1:44 PM

    I agree Silver is exaggerating, I doubt there’s that many Buccaneer fans. Has he seen their ticket sales?

  15. realitypolice says: Dec 3, 2012 1:44 PM

    Not only is there nothing wrong with it, but the O-line players should be penalized for all the cheap shots they think they have the right to dish out every time they do it.

    And what was so “disconcerting” to see Manning take 3 steps backward and kneeling down?

    The fact of the matter is that snaps get fumbled in the NFL all of the time. If you can increase the chance of it happening by pressuring the center, you should do it.

    And if the snap does get fumbled, your defense should be standing up and getting ready to shake hands when it does.

  16. autumnwind999 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:44 PM

    I have no problem with it. In fact, if it works even 1 out of 100 times every coach in the league will adopt it.

    You’d hate to see a QB, especially a legend like Manning get hurt during that, but aside from the chance for a recovery, it’s about stresssing a “we’ll fight on every down until the final whistle.”

  17. 1bucfan813 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:45 PM

    Wether a Buc fan or a fan of the league, I agree that football is played till the clock hits 0:00. The fans pay to see a whole game!!!!

  18. kisstherings says: Dec 3, 2012 1:45 PM

    Good. If the the game was supposed to be 58 minutes, it would have been. I applaud the teams that play to the last second if they are only down a TD. There is nothing wrong with this.

  19. pixelito says: Dec 3, 2012 1:45 PM

    You’ll never see a real NFL coach do this.

    And you never will.

  20. notaslappy says: Dec 3, 2012 1:46 PM

    I WISH my team played like this…right down to the last second ticks off the clock. Good for Schiano and the Bucs…

  21. tzoppi says: Dec 3, 2012 1:46 PM

    Everybody complaining about this move they keep pulling does not understand sports. You always do everything possible to win the game within the rules. Even if it only happens once in 1000 tries, why not try for it? If it doesn’t work, you still lose.

    FULL SUPPORT.

  22. blizzard01 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:46 PM

    No. You don’t.

  23. cooklynn17 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:47 PM

    Dude must have something against the Manning’s.

  24. mantastic54 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:47 PM

    Wouldn’t the easy solution to this be to line up in a FG formation where it is illegal to have someone over the center, and just snap to the holder and take a knee?

  25. rodgers419 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:47 PM

    Play to win.

  26. truthfactory says: Dec 3, 2012 1:47 PM

    The Broncos or any other team can run the ball instead of taking a knee. I dont mind them playing to the last whistle

  27. Sarcasm says: Dec 3, 2012 1:48 PM

    More power to them. You gotta do what you can to try to win, but it sure would have been nice on that 2nd one for Denver to send Thomas on a streak and put 7 more on the board as an exclamation point.

  28. hammerhunker says: Dec 3, 2012 1:49 PM

    Fox didn’t have the problem with it like Coughlin did. Fox and Sciano actually hugged after the game. This belongs in the “It is what is” file.

  29. judsonjr says: Dec 3, 2012 1:51 PM

    At least they are trying to win.

    For me plays like this are the antithesis of the last minute play where the guy is supposed to lateral and keep the play alive. Instead he runs for 20 yards and gets easily tackled.

  30. richwizl says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    Probably not a good idea b/c once his knee touches ground, you can’t cause a fumble, so, what are you really trying to accomplish?

  31. flaccotoboldin says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    You play . . . to win . . . the game

    The victory formation is designed to make sure that, if the ball is fumbled on teh victory formation snap, that the offensive team recovers and, at the very least, the fumble isn’t returned for a TD.

    The victory formation pre-supposes that the other team would be willing to try to force an error / turnover to try to win the game.

    So why are we complaining if a team actually tries to get the ball back? Particularly if its a 1 possession game.

  32. ravenscrap says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    Looking forward to someone pulling a Polomalu against them and breaking Freeman’s face with a forearm shiver during a victory formation….. Of course they rarely ever win so what are the chances…

  33. mecheng04 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    I’m on Schiano’s side here. If there’s a plausible chance that a team can come back to tie or win the game in the final minute, they have every right not to lie down and concede defeat while the other team is in “victory formation”.

    If the offense doesn’t like the fact that blowing up the victory formation could injure their QB, they should keep playing. Heck, pretend to be in victory formation and then throw one over the top for an easy TD (Pete Carroll did it at USC).

    If you’re down by 20-30 in the final minute, it’s a completely different situation.

  34. heydiddlediddlerayriceupthemiddle says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    If they play worked, the media would call him a “genius”. You can’t antagonize a coach for actually trying down to the last snap to win.

  35. fvckyourmother says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    Yeah, its only wrong until the one time it works.

  36. savior72 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:52 PM

    Has anyone ever been successful with that practice and went on to win the game? I can’t think of one, seems pointless.

  37. dcbassguy says: Dec 3, 2012 1:53 PM

    I appreciate the fact that they are playing out the entire game, but cutting in at a guys knees on the final play is dirty.

    After watching how the O-lines have responded right after the play, I’d have to seriously think that the D-line is just going at knees, and not trying to make a play.

  38. ilovefootball2525 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:54 PM

    Denver looked like they were expecting it and I think they handled it just fine.

  39. herrerabrad says: Dec 3, 2012 1:55 PM

    I have no problem with it, just as long as the Bucs dont cry foul when another team blows them off thier asses in the same situation….what goes around comes around

  40. coughlinsredcheeks says: Dec 3, 2012 1:55 PM

    The game was never that close, the Bucs were down by 15 with less than 3 minutes to go. “Driving” down the field to make it an eight point game and then praying for an onside kick recovery just tells me that Schiano would rather play full speed when nobody cares rather than play good the full 60 minutes.

  41. cuda1234 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:55 PM

    Another reason they should have kept Tebow – they wouldn’t have to worry about blowout wins or clinching the division early. What’s wrong with the people running this franchise?

  42. habibthomas says: Dec 3, 2012 1:56 PM

    Yeah because I remember the Bucs winning all those games by busting victory formations… oh that never happened?…yeah, thats what I thought.

  43. conormacleod says: Dec 3, 2012 1:57 PM

    I would run up the score against the Bucs every chance I got. And while in victory formation I would have my offensive line blow off the ball and destroy the defensive line. Submarine blocks at all their knees. You know, because the offense is “just trying to win the game”, and “play until the clock runs out”.

  44. usher716 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:58 PM

    Not a Bucs for or a Manning hater… I love that the Bucs are doing this, after seeing this play for years and thinking “why doesn’t someone try and get the ball?” someone is finally trying it a the pro level. Even if the odds are slim (“so you’re telling me there’s a chance?!?”) I think it’s worth trying. Imagine if the Bucs actually do benefit from this some day, how many copy cats will we see?

  45. pixelito says: Dec 3, 2012 1:59 PM

    There is no plausible chance that you can cause a turnover against a team in victory formation.

    And certainly not against the Mannings.

  46. bigblaw says: Dec 3, 2012 2:01 PM

    will you feel that way when rule changes barring below waist contact? lame attempt to get the ball IMO

  47. realitypolice says: Dec 3, 2012 2:01 PM

    You’re right, fuglyflorio. Schiano obviously lacks class.

    That’s why he gave a contract to a player who rendered a quadriplegic after suffering a spinal cord injury in a football game.

    What kind of classless loser does something like that?

  48. gadgetdawg says: Dec 3, 2012 2:02 PM

    I hated it the first time the Bucs tried it because they were taking advantage of an unwritten rule to pull a fast one. Most folks did not even think about the possibility so there was a much greater chance that unprepared players on the other side of the ball could get injured.

    Now I can’t complain. The Bucs have served notice that they do not respect that unwritten rule. Everyone should know by now that this is in the Buc’s playbook. If the other teams do not like it, it is time for them to ask the NFL to codify it. Let the owners decide.

  49. realitypolice says: Dec 3, 2012 2:02 PM

    @habibthomas-

    It actually happened twice when Schiano was at Rutgers.

  50. tundey says: Dec 3, 2012 2:05 PM

    Why should a team stop playing when down by 7 or less and enough time on the clock? The other team is trying to run out the clock and people are honestly supporting the losing side helping them in that cause? I thought we gave “110%” for “60 minutes” every game? What happened to that? Now, if you were down by 1+ scores (like the Eagles were when Andy Reid got his RB injured against the Redskins), I can see a losing team allowing the clock to be run down.

  51. jakethesnake57 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:06 PM

    Play to the final whistle! It’s not up to the team with the lead to decide when the game’s over. I think it’s great that the Bucs try to blow up the line and force a turnover. The Cardinals were down by 1 point yesterday and allowed the Jets to run almost 2 minutes off the clock with a couple kneel-downs . The Cards meekly accepted their fate instead of trying to rattle the rookie Jets QB playing in his first game. That’s a disgrace!

  52. westcoastraider says: Dec 3, 2012 2:06 PM

    You here coaches preach up and down, play a complete game, play to the last whistle, 60 minutes of football, etc…

    But yet, everyone crys like a Buncha babies when a coach practices what he preaches… I love it’s, that’s how football should be played

  53. eaglesnoles05 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:07 PM

    I bet if you ask peyton manning, he has no problem with it. Cuz he is a football player.

  54. tundey says: Dec 3, 2012 2:07 PM

    @pixelito: There was no plausible chance for 4th-and-26 until Favre did it against the Eagles. None for a dump off pass getting you a first down on 4th-and-29 until Ray Rice did it 2 weeks ago. If it was 100% sure, the NFL should just immediately run down the clock by 45 once a team signals they wanna do it. Skip the lining up entirely.

  55. righton989 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:08 PM

    Can’t wait for the Bucs try the victory formation against the Lions. Ndamnpsycho Sue kicks Freeman in the chops causing a fumble which is returned for a TD. Priceless!

  56. bigbluecrew420 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:09 PM

    Mannings both times too eh?
    I think he just hates the brothers. Probably all their rings.

  57. mcdeezznuts says: Dec 3, 2012 2:09 PM

    Can’t wait til some team decides to play a little shovel pass or seam route out of victory and make the Bucs look like fools. Probably not worth the risk but it’d be seriously entertaining.

  58. mattolikesthevikes says: Dec 3, 2012 2:10 PM

    Maybe the teams that play the bucs should just move to a shotgun formation and then down it.

  59. randyschwimmer7 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:12 PM

    To each their own. I don’t like it but then again I do not coach, or play in the NFL. We have no say on what happens.

    I do love seeing how the offensive lines know it’s coming and just thrash on the defensive line. The Giants did it (a bunch of extra elbows) and Denver did it again. The only reason the Bucs were in that game at the end was because of a garbage time touchdown. They also had 0 timeouts left and even if they got the ball on that, they would have had 30 seconds or less to try and go 60+ yards. Not exactly easy.

  60. randyschwimmer7 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:16 PM

    realitypolice says:
    Dec 3, 2012 2:01 PM
    You’re right, fuglyflorio. Schiano obviously lacks class.

    That’s why he gave a contract to a player who rendered a quadriplegic after suffering a spinal cord injury in a football game.

    What kind of classless loser does something like that?
    ———————————————–

    Just because he did that with LeGrande does not make what he does on the football field with his team completely excusable. Different circumstances, different moves. There was a reason Tom Coughlin got upset about it. You risk having one of your players injured for no reason. But then again, what would a two time Super Bowl winning coach know…right?

  61. electionconfidential says: Dec 3, 2012 2:17 PM

    Obviously what Schiano is doing is “fair”. There’s no rule against it. That said he probably will never score a point doing it and has alienated a lot of people. Given that NFL coaching is a bit of an old-boy network Schiano may find that ultimately this has a bigger down side than up.

  62. turbo2728 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:19 PM

    Simple solution: take a knee in the pistol. The Bucs have been doing it all season.

  63. broncostevenp says: Dec 3, 2012 2:19 PM

    Sorry, I just don’t like the play. I guess I am in the minority.

  64. histarz says: Dec 3, 2012 2:20 PM

    If you’re down by les than a TD, I guess I could see why you would blow up the V form. But c’mon man, who are we kidding. This is the NFL, not college ball. You are not going to even come close to causing a turnover against any team.

  65. bucsfan420 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:20 PM

    I’m glad to see the majority of comments about this are in Schiano’s favor. The bottom line to the whole situation is it is not against the rules of the game to play hard until the FINAL whistle.

    And for you who say “what comes around, goes around”,Schiano is smart enough to put Josh Freeman in the shotgun to avoid low shots. Is he the only coach that can figure that out?

  66. pftisahalftruth says: Dec 3, 2012 2:21 PM

    I don’t have a problem with the attempted “blow up”, but if I’m an opposing coach, I’d line up in victory and then throw down the field to a releasing TE. Better not hear any bitching from the Bucs if/when someone drops another 7 on them out of the victory though.

  67. dwntwnbadboy19 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:22 PM

    I agree with Schiano. Why admit defete when its a 1 possesion game and wild card is on the line? Anyone who does not agree with his call is not a true football fan, or just not competitive as a person.

  68. wizahdry says: Dec 3, 2012 2:22 PM

    People seem to forget that as head coach for the Bucs Schiano only needs answer to his team and the Tampa Bay community. After what we went through last year with a team that quit on us we are not gonna have an issue with the team fighting to win until the final whistle.

    If the rest of the world don’t like it too bad! I don’t want a coach that loses gracefully! Last I heard there ain’t no sportsmanship trophies in the NFL!

  69. fresh1205 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:24 PM

    i admire Schiano’s fight til the end. basketball players intentionally foul down by 6 with 20 seconds on the clock and no one seems to have a problem. Why should football- a contact sport, be any different?

  70. zaggs says: Dec 3, 2012 2:25 PM

    “I’m not a Bucs fan, blindly loyal or otherwise. But I think that every game should be played until every game is over. ”

    And then complain when you think the league isn’t doing enough to stop head injuries.

  71. moseszd says: Dec 3, 2012 2:26 PM

    Bucs are punks. Other teams need to blow them up and knock their QB out for a few weeks.

    Maybe then they’ll learn some sportsmanship.

  72. zaggs says: Dec 3, 2012 2:29 PM

    “realitypolice says:
    Dec 3, 2012 2:02 PM
    @habibthomas-

    It actually happened twice when Schiano was at Rutgers”

    Um, no. What Habibthomas said was in regards to WINNING a game. Rutgers did not win a game trying to force a fumble on the last play. They only succeeded once out of 132 (.7% success rate) games of forcing a fumble. They did not win against Pitt in 2009.

  73. broncobeta says: Dec 3, 2012 2:29 PM

    Schiano is classless.

  74. westclaims says: Dec 3, 2012 2:32 PM

    Schiano does this for the recognition. And, it’s working. Every time he does it, articles are written about it.

  75. ricardorobertasq says: Dec 3, 2012 2:33 PM

    I have no dog in this fight. I am not a Bucs or a Broncos fan. I love the fact that their coach is doing everything he can to win. I do not agree with them going for cheap hits or cheating, but as long as they are playing within the rules, go for it. I hate the culture we have of certain things are excusable because they have always been done, like spiking the ball and not getting an intentional grounding penalty. If that’s not grounding, what is? As has been said, if you don’t want that the Bucs defenders to go for the ball, shotgun it, go in field goal formation, run the ball or pass out of the formation.

  76. paytonsghost34 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:33 PM

    liner1900 says: Dec 3, 2012 1:38 PM

    Earlier this year in fear of retaliation, the Bucs showed everyone how to kneel against this defense. You do it in the shotgun.

    _________________

    Except, well, you’re wrong.

    The reason you never remotely consider doing this in the shotgun is the risk you run of your center throwing it over the head of the QB, a defensive player picking up the ball and getting a TD. That’s why you see the traditional “victory formation”.

    I suppose there’s nothing wrong with what Schiano does – it’s certainly very much against the norm.

  77. bertstare says: Dec 3, 2012 2:33 PM

    How slim of a chance do you have of winning when you throw a hail mary at the last second from 40 yards out? How many people get hurt when running this play? How often does it work?

    Fact is this isn’t seen as bush league yet it’s playing until the clock runs out. Playing out the last snap hoping for a turn over isn’t much different.

  78. steviaquinn says: Dec 3, 2012 2:33 PM

    4 game winning steak? the falcons beat them last week? You know the the 11-1 team that always finds a way to win unlike the Niners, Ravens, Giants, Packers, Broncos Bears, Saints…….ect.

    The falcons have beat every team they have played this year. Of course , lets put the niners and Ravens ahead of them in the power rankings

  79. ricardorobertasq says: Dec 3, 2012 2:35 PM

    And if you are worried about your starting QB being injured, put the backup in to kneel it.

  80. musicman495 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:37 PM

    Schiano will not think he is so clever when Freeman ends up on crutches over this some day.

  81. mburkett1980 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:38 PM

    I don’t buy the “it’s a 60 minute game” argument. Once your opponent has put themselves in position to get into victory formation, the game, from a competitive standpoint, has ended. It has been this way for decades.

  82. mburkett1980 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:40 PM

    When was the last time you saw an NFL QB fumble a snap in this situation? It’s a needless risk of both your opponent’s players and your players’ health.

  83. SeenThisB4 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:41 PM

    If they were playing for free, I would see no problem in expecting the opponents to rollover. But, they’re not playing for free, so play the whole game!

  84. jkb0162 says: Dec 3, 2012 2:43 PM

    Don’t have a problem with it once in awhile, but it’s become kinda absurd. I remember they tried it against Dallas three times in a row and by the third try even the Bucs players were apologizing for it.

  85. brenenostler says: Dec 3, 2012 2:43 PM

    I think this is ok if you’re down by a touchdown or less. But it’s pointless now because everyone expects it.

  86. dudeicle says: Dec 3, 2012 2:45 PM

    broncos must have known it was coming…. coulda put in the backup

  87. vtpack says: Dec 3, 2012 2:46 PM

    So people are complaining that there is only a slim chance that it would work and it risk people getting hurt when the game is “over”? How about we outlaw Hail Mary passes because they hardly ever work and it risk a DB or WR getting hurt jumping for the ball when the game is basically “over”

  88. thestrategyexpert says: Dec 3, 2012 2:47 PM

    How about if you are a team that doesn’t like the way the Bucs play, then you send a WR out deep for a hail mary TD pass?Or line up in a different formation such as shotgun so the QB can kneel without so much traffic.

    How about the team ahead comes up with their own strategy to counter that situation in the best way they deem fit so that they have no right to complain since they can choose to do anything they wish, same as the other team can?

  89. gacoltfan says: Dec 3, 2012 2:49 PM

    Being a lifelong Colts fan, I am still a Peyton Manning fan. I absolutely think Schiano is doing the right thing. Play as long as you still have a chance.

    The Broncos knew what was coming. The defensive lineman were obviously in attack mode before the snap.

    Cracks me up that people will complain about all the new “safety rules”, yet will scream about this relatively low risk of injury play being dirty.

  90. keepingitrealdumb says: Dec 3, 2012 2:50 PM

    to me .. the biggest reason to have the victory formation is because you already got the win and you don’t want to “run up the score” on the other team.

    how many times have we seen teams get all sensitive and cry about how the other team is running up the score?

    so if you don’t want them to run up the score and they are being sportsman enough to just go with the V-formation .. then you can’t be trying to knock it out.

  91. freedomispopular says: Dec 3, 2012 2:52 PM

    I hope these guys manage to succeed in causing a fumble or something and score a touchdown to win the game. Perhaps that would wake everyone up to the reality that there’s 60 minutes in a football game.

  92. onebucplace says: Dec 3, 2012 2:53 PM

    As a Bucs fan I am concerned they were still doing this on Monday.

  93. ubummer says: Dec 3, 2012 2:56 PM

    A question for Silver and the people who agree with him: You’re on offense and have the ball and you’re down by a touchdown or less, and there’s only time left on the clock for one last play, you don’t throw a hail mary because the chances of it working are so low and players could get hurt?

  94. donlogansb says: Dec 3, 2012 2:59 PM

    Best way to combat this would be to release a RB or WR to the flat and toss a quick flare for a final TD to rub it in Schiano’s face. Or maybe that’s what he wants….

  95. malachiofcourse says: Dec 3, 2012 3:01 PM

    i bleed orange and blue, but this neither surprised me nor bothered me

  96. FinFan68 says: Dec 3, 2012 3:03 PM

    dcbassguy says:
    Dec 3, 2012 1:53 PM
    I appreciate the fact that they are playing out the entire game, but cutting in at a guys knees on the final play is dirty.

    After watching how the O-lines have responded right after the play, I’d have to seriously think that the D-line is just going at knees, and not trying to make a play.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    They are trying to get the football, not take out anyone’s knees. If there is a fumbled exchange, where do you suppose the ball would be? Rolling over the center’s back? No, it would be on the ground…right where the D-line is surging.

  97. mrcogburn says: Dec 3, 2012 3:06 PM

    A desperate tactic.

    But losers are desperate, I guess.

  98. manningbowl88 says: Dec 3, 2012 3:09 PM

    inthearex says:
    Dec 3, 2012 1:43 PM
    You have 59 minutes and 55 seconds to control the outcome if the game with REAL football. That’s not football and it’ll come back and bite them.
    _______________

    imagine if andrew luck had that mentality on sunday…

  99. jccarrollccrider says: Dec 3, 2012 3:09 PM

    I’ve seen the Bucs in victory formation when they have led by 1 score or less… sure would be great to see someone but them on the ground! It’s only fair right?

  100. richiesaurus310 says: Dec 3, 2012 3:12 PM

    I have nothing against doing this as long as the offensive team knows its coming, and they should know by now.

  101. Deb says: Dec 3, 2012 3:17 PM

    Agree or disagree, everyone knows by now they’re going to do it. And other teams may follow suit. So if you don’t protect your QB in the so-called “victory formation” by putting him in the shotgun or putting in your backup, that makes you a little stupid.

  102. avanderlay says: Dec 3, 2012 3:18 PM

    Schiano’s Bucs never quit, like it or not there’s 60 minutes in a game.

    It worked multiple times at Rutgers.

  103. chattanola says: Dec 3, 2012 3:20 PM

    I have an idea. Give each coach a white flag. They can throw it onto the field when they’re ready to quit playing.

    And, for the remaining time on the clock, their eleven men can stand on the field along their sideline (all safe and sound) and allow the opponent to play out the remaining time.

    In my view, if it’s a one score game, you fight to the end.

  104. dannybuggs says: Dec 3, 2012 3:21 PM

    Regardless of whether it’s a classless move or just tough football, it’s ultimately a bad idea. The risks are greater than the odds of success. The odds of causing a fumble in that formation are almost non-existent. Literally almost zero. But when you try to blow up the victory formation, the offensive line gets really, really ticked off. That creates a pretty good chance of some kind of fight or piling on after the whistle is blown, which increases the potential for injuries or fines. The odds of an injury or fine resulting from trying to blow up the victory formation dramatically outweigh the odds of actually achieving anything positive. So, a smart coach wouldn’t do it.

  105. buffalose says: Dec 3, 2012 3:26 PM

    I just cant think of a way to protect youknees and the ball, maybe put the guards tight to the center, and hand them line up on hands and knees to save their knees ?

  106. JC De La Torre says: Dec 3, 2012 3:35 PM

    @CoughlinsRedCheeks, Tampa Bay scored 10 points in two minutes and was within 8. It wasn’t like they kicked a late field goal down by 15 and tried this.

    Also, it worked 4 times for Schiano in college. Has it worked in the pros? No, not YET.

    I said it then and I say it now – I still have no issues with the play. If you’re within a score – you still have a chance to win and anything can happen. A bobbled snap and recovery regenerates the Bucs’ chances. I would never want to see it done during a game out of reach and Schiano never would do that, but if the game was still in the balance I like my team playing to triple zeros.

    Also, it’s on tape. Every opponent on the schedule knows that if the Bucs are within one score and you have an opportunity at a victory formation – Tampa Bay is not going to quit. It’s not about trying to hurt anybody – it’s about winning the game.

    Folks say that it exposes players needlessly to injury on a play that has low percentages for success – but you can get injured on any play in the game. You’re more likely to get injured on an onside kick than you are on that play (and that has about the same odds of success), yet teams still do it. Should they just concede the loss there as well?

    You need to be prepared every single play. As I said, it’s clearly on tape. Protect yourself.

    Peyton I thought handled it well. After securing the snap, he moved back three or four yards to avoid contact. That’s how you beat it safely.

  107. rolloxd says: Dec 3, 2012 3:36 PM

    Baffles me that anyone is opposed to the crashing of victory formation.

    A team losing should do anything it possibly can to win the game. Plain and simple. If you don’t want them crashing the victor formation, dont run it. Run a dive and get back to the huddle. You should never accept a loss when your down 1 TD and theirs time on the clock. Period.

    In the words of Herm Edwards, “You play to win the game!”

    -A Broncos Fan

  108. joewilliesshnoz says: Dec 3, 2012 3:54 PM

    They get paid for 60 minutes, so why can’t they play for 60 minutes ?

  109. lanman11 says: Dec 3, 2012 4:09 PM

    Another Manning apologist. If he can’t take it, then get him out of the game. Simple as that. He’s in the game because he wants to celebrate the victory and a backup that came in cold might fumble. If the Broncos are protecting their lead by having him in there so there is less chance of a fumble, then they are playing the game to their full advantage, without concern for the Bucs. Tampa should do likewise. They know the drill. Who said the game is only 59 minutes and change?

    This is just another example of a Manning media drama queen. Can’t wait till Chris Mortensen, the Ultimate QB Drama Queen when Favre was in the league, gets a hold of this.

    I’m not a Bucs fan. I could care less if they win or lose. I’m just sick of the media coddling of the Manning family as a whole. Peyton held up Indy for 30 million without playing a down before trying to tell them who to draft, and Eli stiffed San Diego because Daddy wanted him on an east coast media centric team, and all the advertising that goes with it. It’s all about the dollar dollar bill to the Mannings.

  110. tbtrojan says: Dec 3, 2012 4:12 PM

    steviaquinn says: Dec 3, 2012 2:33 PM
    4 game winning steak? the falcons beat them last week?

    That would be why he said and I quote…
    “followed by a one-point loss that happened with Tampa in possession of the ball”
    Somebody needs to learn how to read.

  111. EJ says: Dec 3, 2012 4:13 PM

    northshorejag says: Dec 3, 2012 1:40 PM

    when it’s check mate, you’re done.

    Yeah, that’s in Chess though. This is Football we are talking about, you never give up in this sport. Look at the greatest comeback ever: Buffalo vs Houston. If the Bills would have used your mentality toward the sport for even 1 play, then the final score would have been different. Never give up.

  112. sws222 says: Dec 3, 2012 4:17 PM

    If you know you’re going to take a knee….send in your 3rd stringer.

  113. sportsmeccabi says: Dec 3, 2012 4:24 PM

    I wouldn’t have an issue with this if Schiano was using his best players to do this. He has his scrub backup defensive players crash it so none of their good players get hurt.

    If it was truly to win the game, it would be Gerald McCoy being the main crash guy, not that third string defensive end with the two last names. Te’o something.

  114. gus1779 says: Dec 3, 2012 4:24 PM

    Has a coach ever been applauded more while losing? Everytime he does this, fans say, “that’s great coaching. He has them playing to the last whistle. Good for him.” Everyone forgets to notice that he just lost another game.

  115. patsfan22 says: Dec 3, 2012 4:28 PM

    I’m totally okay with this, I think Schiano would actually welcome opposing teams faking a kneeldown and trying to score, that would be even more risky.

  116. anderds1 says: Dec 3, 2012 4:31 PM

    Yeah, what gives with Schiano getting his team to play to the clock strikes 0:00 if they are within a score of tying or winning. I much prefer watching last years team when they quit playing in the second quarter under Rah.

  117. justintuckrule says: Dec 3, 2012 4:36 PM

    Instead of the victory formation against this scrub team and its coach, I hope Denver or New York runs a GB sweep right toward the Bucs sideline and rolls up on this bush league coach’s knee. Hey, just playing til the end coach!

  118. lofmarks says: Dec 3, 2012 4:58 PM

    Scrub Team? #1 D vs the Run, Awesome Offense… this guy has done nothing short of a miracle with this team and his discipline. Denver barely won that, the week before Atlanta squeaked by. 6 losses this season, all by 8 points or less. Pretty amazing if you ask me, they could be and 8-2 team really.

  119. cospgsmadman says: Dec 3, 2012 5:00 PM

    Just wait till one of the guards for Freeman knees gets blown up. maybe then Schiano will rethink his high school harry thinking. I bet the defensive line feel like bozos but they are doing what is told to them. grow up Schiano !!!

  120. fallcoon says: Dec 3, 2012 5:04 PM

    Then it is time to run up the score. Big time.

  121. broncfanwa says: Dec 3, 2012 5:08 PM

    Love me some Broncos, and seeing them clinch the AFC West title yesterday was magnificent. But i really don’t have an issue with the Bucs trying until the last minute to win the game. Put yourself in their position: if Denver had been behind by less than a TD, there’s no way i’d have wanted Von and the boys to just lay down and give up until the fat lady finished the last note. It ain’t over til’ it’s over, and if you don’t want your QB to get hurt, well, maybe he should be on the bench…

    That said, of course, anybody who hurts Peyton will be on my permanent “coal in the stocking” list!

  122. granadafan says: Dec 3, 2012 5:14 PM

    Teams should just run up the score on the Bucs, college style. Up by 20 with two minutes left? Keep passing, trick plays, fake field goals, call timeouts, and no more prevent defense.

  123. christophershearin says: Dec 3, 2012 5:17 PM

    wow, according to these people, the 2nd half of the game shouldnt be played, who ever is up at halftime should be declared the winner in the name of player safety!

  124. onebucplace says: Dec 3, 2012 5:17 PM

    Somewhere the New York Giants are weeping.

  125. louiegrandie says: Dec 3, 2012 5:28 PM

    As a result pretty soon everyone is going to be trying to run it up on you. I hope that someone lines up in a “victory” formation and then throws a quick pass for a touchdown on the last play.

  126. goodolebaghead says: Dec 3, 2012 5:31 PM

    Did any of you know this worked for Schiano several times in NCAA games?

  127. richc111 says: Dec 3, 2012 5:33 PM

    This is exactly what happened last time. They were one score ways from tieing, the ball was in Denver’s part of the field. If the ball is dropped, they would have got 2-3 plays from the Denver 35 to try to score. Just play the game. Why should the other team quit when you do. I can guarantee you if they were down 2 scores or 90 yards from the goal line it don’t happen.

  128. dallascowboysdishingthereal says: Dec 3, 2012 5:34 PM

    It’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt…

  129. dkeyser says: Dec 3, 2012 5:40 PM

    He preaches to play till the there are all zeros on the clock, yet when his team is winning at the end of a game his guys are taking a knee.. What gives? He would be singing a different tune if one of his offensive lineman got their knees blown out

  130. wjmoffatt says: Dec 3, 2012 5:44 PM

    louiegrandie says: Dec 3, 2012 5:28 PM

    “As a result pretty soon everyone is going to be trying to run it up on you. I hope that someone lines up in a “victory” formation and then throws a quick pass for a touchdown on the last play.”
    —————————————————————-

    Yeah we as Bucs fans would love that smart guy, let us have an opportunity at getting the ball back, thanks

  131. govtminion says: Dec 3, 2012 5:45 PM

    I find myself wondering how the Bucs fans would react if another team did this to them and Freeman got hurt. Same idea, right?

  132. wjmoffatt says: Dec 3, 2012 5:47 PM

    And pretty sure people will get no matter what, look at what happened to Bill Gramatica when he went out for the year celebrating a field goal! So if you get hurt from this, then you were probably going to get hurt eventually any was.

  133. randyschwimmer7 says: Dec 3, 2012 5:55 PM

    goodolebaghead says:
    Dec 3, 2012 5:31 PM
    Did any of you know this worked for Schiano several times in NCAA games?

    ——————————————–

    Last I checked, this isn’t the NCAA…..so we don’t care.

  134. hedleykow says: Dec 3, 2012 6:09 PM

    The only thing that would top crashing the victory formation play would be to throw the challenge flag after the play to make absolute certain there wasn’t a turnover.

    I’d pay double to see that.

  135. justintuckrule says: Dec 3, 2012 6:39 PM

    The strategy is simply to catch the winning team sleeping. Otherwise, why wouldn’t TB submarine the winning team’s OL for the entire game in the hopes of forcing fumbles? Answer – because it’s a chicken s- move. Nothing more.

    And to the poster who called Schiano this great humanitarian for signing LeGrand to a contract….puhlease. The move was a complete self-absorbed, “look at me” move (coincidentally no different than his bush league look at me victory formation garbage). Otherwise, why call a press conference without LeGrand there to announce it????

  136. onebucplace says: Dec 3, 2012 7:09 PM

    If a team that was going to kneel down instead runs a play then fantastic — the Bucs have more than done their job since they’ve forced the other team to change the way they’d normally play which is how mistakes happen. If Payton at the end of the game pulls out of the knee and throws a long touchdown pass — so what? If we were going to lose it doesn’t matter — plus the fact the ball is in the air at all makes it possible for something bad for the offense to happen.

  137. TheDPR says: Dec 3, 2012 7:59 PM

    One of the rules the CFL has that’s better than the NFL: must run a play…no kneeldowns.

  138. kalib933 says: Dec 3, 2012 8:28 PM

    In Schiano’s coaching career he has has his teams force 4 fumbles with this play and recovered two of them. How is that not proof enough that this is a legitimate strategy and not classless? One could argue that icing a kicker is cheap and classless as well. But it is a strategy that works. Everyone needs to find more important things to be upset about. No one has ever been hurt during this play and they won’t be anytime soon.

  139. therealhazer says: Dec 3, 2012 9:00 PM

    Play until the final whistle. Period.

  140. kinguga says: Dec 3, 2012 9:03 PM

    Schiano would slit his granny’s throat for a nickel, but the Bucs are 6-6 and in big trouble. They’re youngry again. Who cares?

  141. ryanmac44 says: Dec 3, 2012 9:11 PM

    I think Manning should have dropped back and fired a pass at Schiano’s head on the sideline.

  142. dannybuggs says: Dec 3, 2012 10:18 PM

    I keep making this point, and Florio or someone keeps deleting my post, so I’ll try again: Schiano’s strategy of trying to blow up the Victory formation NEVER WORKED IN COLLEGE. NOT ONCE. The only time Rutgers ever recovered a fumble was when they jumped offsides against West Virginia. Congratulations, Rutgers. You jumped ahead of the snap and knocked the ball out of the quarterback’s hand. Wonderful.

    History suggests there is about a zero percent chance of Schiano’s strategy working. As proof, I offer the fact that no one I have seen has ever identified one instance in which a team employing Schiano’s strategy has actually recovered the ball.

    Say what you will about whether it’s just good tough football or bad sportsportsmanship, but the fact is that as a strategy to win games, it’ worthless.

  143. dontgooffwondering says: Dec 4, 2012 12:44 AM

    If it’s so “disconcerting” to put Peyton Manning in harms way, then why not put the backup QB out there to take the kneel-downs when you know exactly what Schiano is planning?

    Better yet, why not put the backup QB out there to play the entire game? That way, there’s no risk that Manning will get hurt at all! After all, you don’t get the “fine china” out for every meal, right? You only get it out for special occasions, like the Super Bowl.

    Or, perhaps Silver can descend down from the summit of Mt. Pious and stop treating Peyton Manning like some sort of demi-god for whom defenses should bow down to.

    He’s a player like everyone else who plays the game and he is subject to the same risks that every other player is subject to. Neck surgeries or not, he has been cleared to play and no matter how prestigious his career has been that does not mean defenses shouldn’t sack him, blindside him or in extreme circumstances, go after the ball in a victory formation.

    If its within the rules, it’s perfectly fine.

  144. CKL says: Dec 4, 2012 9:04 AM

    Lovie Smith’s Bears did this to the Panthers in their playoff game in Jan 06. Never heard one word of media outrage over it. Maybe it’s because the Panthers never whined about it to begin with. Or maybe it’s because Lovie is considered classy, much like Dungy who also “ran up the score” against my team back in 05 with no media outcry. If you are a maverick and/or tough minded HC though, everyone in namby pamby land whines about it.

  145. raysfaninsrq says: Dec 4, 2012 10:40 AM

    “onebucplace says:
    Dec 3, 2012 2:53 PM
    As a Bucs fan I am concerned they were still doing this on Monday.”

    Me too, did they decide that 60 minutes wasn’t enough that they needed to play for another 12 hours… c’mon people who thumbed down this post… “that’s funny right there, that’s what that is”

    I also am a Bucs fan, but have to tell you that I am extremely distressed, not for trying to defeat the V formation, but for abso-f’ing-lutely poor clock management by Schiano. For two games in a row he failed to take advantage of the clock and his timeouts. Had he called timeout BEFORE the two minute warning against Atlanta, they would have got the ball back w/ 40 + seconds instead of 12 at the end of the game and given what the did the week before against Carolina, and needing ONLY a FG to win, could have beat the Falcons. Then against the Broncos he did not use the 1:45 and 3 TO’s he had before the half to try to score. C’mon Coach, you’re rationalization for blowing up the V-formation is to ensure you take advantage of every second on the clock when there’s even .7% chance (saw that on here somewhere, and that’s better than 0%). Then take advantage of the clock when you have it to use and take a lesson in clock management.

  146. turtlehut says: Dec 4, 2012 2:11 PM

    As Tuesday Morning Quarterback noted in September, though Schiano claims that attacking a victory formation worked for him at Rutgers, this tactic never resulted in a turnover, let alone a Rutgers victory. Schiano simply isn’t telling the truth about his unsportsmanlike tactic. Why does the city of Tampa want to be represented by a little bully who breaks a sportsmanship standard observed by everyone else in football?

  147. essentialsausage says: Dec 4, 2012 6:08 PM

    “Voting yes, Greg Schiano and a few thousand blindly loyal Bucs fans. Voting no, everyone else on earth. The nays have it.”
    ————————————————–
    I’m not a Buccaneers fan (I think calling them the “Bucs” is dumb), but I totally agree with what Schiano is doing!

  148. mayhemmatt300 says: Dec 6, 2012 12:50 AM

    What Schiano continues to do is trashy and classless. If you say otherwise, you’re an idiot. It’s absolutely ridiculous to go against the longstanding grain of the victory formation. Only Bucs fans and Manning haters would be dumb enough to agree with this. The victory formation in employed when the opposing team can no longer stop the clock and has no chance of victory. SORE LOSERS

  149. bk9876 says: Dec 6, 2012 10:51 AM

    Mike “I wear a skirt” Silver must want the NFL to stop tackling too because a “Manning” could get hurt! This article is a prime example why real NFL fans are starting to say…when did my sport turn into flag football? We already have enough rules to control the once gladiator like sport.

    For the record, Schiano only does this when appropriate (8 points or less). The opposing team KNOWS its coming….its THIER job to prepare for it…and that would include the oh holy one Peyton Manning and Tom “I got caught with my pants down” Coughlin since I didnt prep my team properly. I dont recall Peyton complaining about it after the game….oh thats right he is old school and knows the game is played until 0:00 is on the clock.

    I vote YES! to this victory formation attack and Hard nosed football.

  150. cow395 says: Dec 6, 2012 11:37 AM

    so simple if their is still time on the clock, you play…..

  151. averien says: Dec 7, 2012 9:23 PM

    In the last 70 years of football at the collegiate and professional level, there have been exactly 0 instances of crashing the line resulting in a win. There have been exactly 4 turnovers, 3 of which came when a team was down by more than 1 score and had literally 0 chance of winning, because there was not enough time on the clock to physically run enough plays to tie, let alone win. Just as part of sportsmanship is winning with grace, part of sportsmanship is losing with it. Crashing the victory formation will not result in a win. It never has. It creates no statistical advantage, or probability toward that effect. It *has* resulted in injuries at the collegiate level, where coaches frankly don’t have as much invested in player safety as they do in the NFL. This, out of thousands of tries, most at the low-tier collegiate level– not just NCAA, all colleges. To claim it gives your team a chance is clearly false, and the risk/reward to your *OWN* team shows that, even if he is actually trying to win, his judgment is so poor that one must question his leadership. He is risking the safety of his players (every collision risks concussion at the least), for a tactic that has never, in the history of the game at a post-high school level, worked (I am unaware of a high school game resulting in victory from this, but high school is played with substantially less disciplined, less talented players than the college or high school level, and flukes are more likely to happen). Giving him the benefit of the ethical doubt– that he is merely incompetent and not a bully– results in a far more grim outlook for the Bucs, and frankly not much better result for the game as a whole.

  152. mwindle1973 says: Dec 8, 2012 1:14 AM

    See the problem is that a lot of people seeming to think this is alright, also seem to think that you could actually cause a TO and get the ball back this way. It’s not possible. If I’m the head coach of the winning team, I’m sending out my back up QB for the victory formation

  153. jjbadd385 says: Dec 8, 2012 9:36 AM

    If Someone has mentioned this, and I didnt see it, Im sorry. But many years ago, I remember Dan Marino and the Dolphins ran up to the line as if they were going to spike the ball to stop the clock, but instead, proceeded to throw a TD pass while everyone was off guard. The next few days everyone was saying “you have to play every play to win”, blah blah blah….. same principle here, you may catch the other team off guard. So I agree, play EVERY play to win…no exceptions.

  154. kc80503 says: Dec 10, 2012 3:32 PM

    Play EVERY play to win? In the last friggin minute when you’re down by a TD, no timeouts, and your chances of causing and recovering a fumble are as good as winning the lottery? Gimme a break…it’s nothing but some last minute theatrics by a chump coach to get in some last minute cheap shots because he didn’t play well enough to win the rest of the game. But hey, if there’s still enough time to cripple somebody, then go for it, right?

  155. justanotherdummy says: Dec 10, 2012 5:51 PM

    Tundey, Brett F didn’t throw the 4th and 26 pass. Donovan McNabb did, completing it to FredEx against the Packers in the playoffs. Favre threw the popup into the center of the field that Dawkins intercepted, leading to the game winning fg.

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