To expand on strength of schedule- NYG had toughest in league this year- opponents were 140-116 (.547) and Skins opponents were 125-131 (.488).

So I would think you just punked yourself with your own stats.

Good luck this weekend.
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Again, who the hell is talking about the Giants? I sure wasn’t.

And while comparing strength of schedule by points may, in fact, be a more valid measure of strength of schedule than winning percentage; I’m not totally sure how I can punk myself with my own stats when you use a completely different set of stats, and compare them to teams I was never discussing.

Oh look, RGIII has a better forty time than Vince Wilfork, so therefore Griffin is rookie of the year right?

See, it’s easy to win arguments when you totally change the subject and measure of comparison.

Hey jwreck
i wasn’t going to bring it up, but since you did, here you go…the Skins had the easiest schedule in the NFC East, courtesy of their last place finish last season. So they could possibly end up in a 3 way tie and make it to the playoffs courtesy of their weak schedule.

The Giants played the 49ers, while the Skins got the Rams. The Giants played the Packers, while the Skins got the Lions…. I would take an educated guess and say that would be two more losses for the Redskins and out of playoff contention. We will see, since they will get 2nd place Seahawks or 49ers in first round more than likely. If they win that, they will probably get the Packers. If they win those two, I will concede that they are worthy.

In a tight division, getting the 4th place schedule is a big difference than the 1st. Lets see how they do next year with a tougher schedule.
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hey ballsack
I wasn’t going to bring it up, but since you did, you have the reading comprehension of an orangutan.

Your argument would make some sense if I was comparing Griffin and Eli, but if you spent one second reading what I wrote, you would clearly see I was comparing Wilson and Griffin’s strength of schedule.

Lastly: “[Washington] could possibly end up in a 3 way tie and make it to the playoffs courtesy of their weak schedule.” C’mon man, ties are decided by divisional records, and, last time I checked, every team in NFC East has the same schedule when it comes to playing other teams in the NFC East.

While I respect you being the only rational person on PFT, who not only actually wants to talk about football in full, understandable sentences, but also knows what he’s talking about; a lot of your arguments are not so much disagreements as simple misunderstandings of my original post.

First off, I said “Shanahan is not saying Luck is a bad quarterback”, as he clearly is implying that Griffin has had a better season. Brady is better than Ryan, but does that mean Ryan is a “bad quarterback”? Clearly not.

Second- Obviously Bruce Arians’ offense requires more difficult throws than Shanny’s. As I said, that explains both Luck’s passing yards and interceptions. Also, as I said, that’s not because Griffin can’t make those throws: it’s because Arians’ offensive strategy is an aggressive vertical attack; Shanahan’s is to keep the ball in Griffin’s hands, eat up the clock, and keep the defense off the field.

Next, if you remember the Luck/Griffin draft debate last year, one point every expert made is that Luck and Griffin both throw very good, and very comparable deep balls. If you watch more tape of Griffin’s play this year, you’ll see that the vast majority of his deep throws are between the numbers: typically 8, 6, and 2 routes (yeah, I played high school ball too, brah). As for throwing for 4400 yards, the fact is that Griffin’s YPC is noticeably greater than Luck’s; Luck just throws 13 more times a game. Clearly, Griffin’s deep ball is not the issue: Washington’s play calling, run game, and offensive system have much more to do with Luck’s greater passing yardage.

My argument about game-winning drives is entirely conjecture and opinion. And while I did clearly state that Luck is clutch and performs very well under pressure, I was just making the point that because of Luck’s turnovers (which, you’ll remember, I excused earlier while discussing the difference between an Arians offense and a Shanahan offense) seven comeback wins isn’t as impressive as it could be.

Additionally, I would point out that, with the exception of the Steelers game, in which Washington receivers set the NFL record for total drops in a game, Griffin has kept the Redskins in every game they’ve lost this season until the final drive. In other words: of Griffin’s six losses, only one has been by more than seven points; and despite playing a vastly easier schedule, only one of Luck’s five losses has been by seven points or less.

Third down conversions is a very impressive stat, and a great argument for Luck. However, bear in mind that Griffin’s top two receiving threats, including 3rd down superstar Fred Davis, have been out almost the entire season, while Future Hall-of-Famer Reggie Wayne, one of the greatest 3rd down players ever, is having a career year. And while the Redskins are 25th on 3rd downs, they are only 7 points behind the Colts (42% vs. 35%).

Fourth down percentage, however, is not a great argument. While the Colts are 1st in the league, they only have 8 attempts. Meanwhile, Griffin is third in the NFL, despite 17 fourth down attempts.

Last, if you want to argue that Luck had a better rookie season than Cam Newton, fine, I agree with you 110%; I just didn’t think that’s what the discussion was. And clearly Luck is not “objectively” the ROY. If it was objective, there wouldn’t be any discussion about it. Luck had a better rookie season than Brandon Weeden: that is an objective statement.

In summary, Griffin and Luck had the two best rookie seasons of all time. I think Griffin is better, you think Luck is better. And “objectively” there’s no conclusive argument for either player. This argument could go on for pages and pages, but why don’t we just agree that Griffin and Luck are both superstars and leave it at that?

The Giants played the 49ers, while the Skins got the Rams. The Giants played the Packers, while the Skins got the Lions….

—————

The Redskins didn’t even play the Lions this year. It’s hard to take your argument seriously if you are incorrect on basic facts like who each team played…

Gmen outlook. Arrows down.
Skins outlook. Arrows up.

I’ve got respect. You won two bowls recently. Our 3 were years ago. The tides are shifting. The Gmen fans around me on Monday night a few weeks ago acknowledged the same.

Great name by the way, it cracks me up. Also, keep hating brotha. Us REAL skins fans are not setting ourselves up for a let down, nor have we waivered on our team throughout. I have lived in the DC area all my life, and am a lifelong skins fan, and associate myself with nothing but lifelong skins fans. Just to let everyone know out there, most of the moronic comments that are put on PFT do not come for the real fan, it comes from that drunk unruley loud mouth so called fan that is trying to stir the pot. REAL skins fans are very nervous about this game this weekend, and most feel if we don’t win, that our team is still heading in the right direction. We will be very disappointed, but at least we can see that light at the end of the tunnel going forward. That’s what the REAL skins fans are saying in the DC area.

As for Luck doing more with less, you all do recall that most pundits had the skins going somewhere around 2-14 this year, right? This team has gotten it done by playing hard and playing together as a team. We may not make it to the SB or hell, may even lose tomorrow, God forbid, but the future in D.C. is bright between Luck, Morris, Kerrigan, Orakpo, Harper, Strasburg, Gio, Zimmerman/n and company.

So I would think you just punked yourself with your own stats.

Good luck this weekend.

Logicalvoicesays is Mike Shanahan! Mike Shanahan is Logicalvoicesays!

The Giants played the 49ers, while the Skins got the Rams. The Giants played the Packers, while the Skins got the Lions…. I would take an educated guess and say that would be two more losses for the Redskins and out of playoff contention. We will see, since they will get 2nd place Seahawks or 49ers in first round more than likely. If they win that, they will probably get the Packers. If they win those two, I will concede that they are worthy.

In a tight division, getting the 4th place schedule is a big difference than the 1st. Lets see how they do next year with a tougher schedule.

Setting themselves up for delicious failure!

Would you trade Griffin for anyone right now? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Level of hype maybe. Russell Wilson has been doing what RG3 has been doing all years except without the fan fare and against stiffer competition. The only bigger injustice of Russell Wilson losing the ROTY award to RG3 would be RG3 losing it to Luck. The NFL’s great white hype.
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Except that he hasn’t. Wilson looks like he’s going to be a star for years to come, but don’t kid yourself, he hasn’t been playing the way he hasrecently all year. In fact, a lot of experts were calling for him to be benched earlier in the season. And let’s not forget Wilson’s real turnaround came when Carroll began viewing tape of Griffin III and getting Wilson to emulate his playing style. Wilson’s stats are bigger, but it could easily be argued that Griffin’s are better. That’s not a debate I want to engage in, however, because it would never end.

The one concrete argument I can make, in response to your claim that Wilson played against better competition is a whole lotta numbers. Check it:
Seattle opponents’ avg. winning percentage: .415
Avg. winning percentage of teams Seattle beat (including the very debatable win against Green Bay): .4
Avg. winning percentage of teams Seattle lost to: .45
Washington opponents’ avg. winning percentage: .456
Avg. Winning percentage of teams DC beat : .445
Avg. Winning percentage of teams DC lost to (Atlanta was crucial): .473

As you can see, Washington has a slight, but overall insignificant, edge in every category, playing slightly better opponents, beating slightly better teams, and losing to slightly better teams than Seattle did. While that edge means virtually nothing, it does mean that Wilson certainly didn’t face “stiffer competition”.

And given that the Seahawks are a noticeably superior team to the Redskins at just about every position, it could therefore be argued that Griffin is a bigger asset to his team than Wilson is to his.

Again, this is no knock on Wilson, personally I’m a big fan of his. Just making the case that Griffin winning the award over Wilson is not an injustice by any means.

Their own fans and the local press even call themselves “The Bandwagon” when they do well, because they only speak up/ become rabid fans when they are having a good season…and when they do you can’t shut them the hell up no matter what.

That 91 yards he put up against the falcons was impressive, lol. Cousins is better.

The east is an easy playoff win for Seattle or Frisco
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While the idea that Cousins is better is simply a joke, there’s no escaping the fact that Griffin was struggling against Atlanta, causing him to force plays with his feet and eventually get knocked out of the game. However, no matter what your opinion of Griffin, that is, unarguably, the only game he has struggled in during his rookie season.

Seattle and San Fransisco are both great teams. And while, presuming the Redskins make the playoffs (knock on wood), the Washington area certainly has good cause to worry about their first playoff game, one shouldn’t forget that they beat the Seahawks last year and lost to San Fran by only two points.

That being said, the night and day difference between Griffin and Grossman; Wilson and Seattle’s scoring rampage; and the 49ers not looking as dominant as they were last year, makes any playoff scenario a very tricky call.