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Carter breaks WR logjam, part of seven-man HOF class

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Three first-year eligible candidates pushed through, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s long debate over wide receivers and coach Bill Parcells finally ended.

Parcells was elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame after an all-day meeting Saturday, joined by guard Larry Allen, wide receiver Cris Carter, tackle Jonathan Ogden and defensive tackle Warren Sapp.

They will be joined in Canton by seniors candidates Curley Culp and Dave Robinson.

Parcells pushed through after the longest debate among the selectors of any candidate, roughly 55 minutes in duration.

And Carter survived a logjam of receivers that included Andre Reed and Tim Browns, whose presence made it hard for any of them to get through.

Those five modern candidates pushed through from a strong group, as running back Jerome Bettis, wide receiver Andre Reed, defensive ends Michael Strahan and Charles Haley and cornerback Aeneas Williams were eliminated in the vote from 10 to the final five.

Linebacker Kevin Greene, wide receiver Tim Brown, guard Will Shields and owners Ed DeBartolo Jr. and Art Modell fell out in the voting from 15 to 10.

Next year’s first-year class doesn’t appear to be as strong as this year’s, with first-time eligible candidates including Marvin Harrison, Derrick Brooks, Tony Dungy.

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133 Responses to “Carter breaks WR logjam, part of seven-man HOF class”
  1. jojopuppyfish says: Feb 2, 2013 6:02 PM

    No Ray Guy = HOF is illegitimate

  2. fdugrad says: Feb 2, 2013 6:02 PM

    Great for Dave Robinson. Still do not understand why Jerry Kramer is not in.

  3. darkneptune73 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:03 PM

    Carter finally deserves it. Thank you for seeing the light. To the fans if Andre Reed and Tim Brown, I send my condolences. Maybe next year. Or the following year…

  4. tdk24 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:03 PM

    Carter and his mom look pretty good in that picture.

  5. commonsensedude says: Feb 2, 2013 6:06 PM

    Thank God Chris Carter is finally in. It made no sense at all that he wasn’t in yet.

  6. jintfan says: Feb 2, 2013 6:06 PM

    CC is very deserving, congrats!

  7. 1972wasalongtimeago says: Feb 2, 2013 6:06 PM

    My guess is that during the Bill Parcells HOF montage, his time in Miami will be noticeably left out.

  8. tdk24 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:06 PM

    With Allen, Carter, and Sapp, will this be known as the class of druggies?

  9. 1972wasalongtimeago says: Feb 2, 2013 6:06 PM

    Cris Carter’s too for that matter

  10. rjc32586 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:07 PM

    Happy for Parcells, as he deserves to be in. However, it would have been more fitting had he made it last year (when the two teams he coached to the Super Bowl were squaring off) or next year (when the game is in the Meadowlands).

  11. jimw81 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:07 PM

    Tim Brown sabotaged Tim Brown

  12. jakec4 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:07 PM

    Ravens first pick ever is going into the HOF, and their second pick ever won’t be too hard behind. Congrats to J.O. and the Ravens. A model of team competence on draft day, and the eventual Super Bowl champs in little more than a day.

  13. goldrush36 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:07 PM

    Great… Congrats to you Cris Carter you were definitely deserving. So please now SHUT UP lol.

  14. jimthebuilder27 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:07 PM

    Finally Cris Carter gets in! What took so long?

    Dave Robinson is in too! That’s 22 Packers in the Hall of Fame! :)

  15. libradad53 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:08 PM

    I think Model deserves it, but hey, terriffic class. Can’t wait to here Warren Sapp give his speech…

  16. packerpride03 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:08 PM

    Warren sapp is a disgrace to human society

  17. nepo784 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:08 PM

    Cris Carter= Original Fraud

  18. thegregwitul says: Feb 2, 2013 6:09 PM

    As a Bucs fan, I’m happy for Warren Sapp making it in the first ballot. The numbers don’t lie; one of only 12 players to make two all decade teams, defensive player of the year, Super Bowl champion and the prototype for every DT that came after him. Click the thumbs down and hate away, but the HOF got it right.

    Looking forward to Derrick Brooks making it in next season. A true class act and one of the best LBs ever, the anti-Ray Lewis, Brooks let his game do all the talking and stayed out of trouble while giving back to the community.

    Ronde Barber and John Lynch should also make it to the HOF, but they won’t be first ballot guys. Ronde should be first ballot, but I have a feeling the two of them will be on the ballot for a bit before making it in.

    That was one nasty Buc defense, happy to have been there to watch the full run.

  19. dybzinski10 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:10 PM

    Glad the newer younger voters finally learned the real story about Art Modell, and not the revisionist history being told in Baltimore. Look at the facts, not half truths, and justice prevails.

  20. dolfanatik says: Feb 2, 2013 6:10 PM

    Art Modell didn’t get in? Must be trying to avoid media attention when Ravens win. (Planned win that is)

  21. thegrey7 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:10 PM

    Too bad Warren Sapp made it instead of one of the other far more deserving candidates.

  22. mooreyb says: Feb 2, 2013 6:10 PM

    Congratulations to Chris Carter’s who was overdue for enshinement to the HOF.

  23. dolphins512 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:11 PM

    Congrats to Chris Carter! Very well deserved.

  24. souldogdave says: Feb 2, 2013 6:11 PM

    I’m sorry, but Sapp? HALEY HAS FIVE RINGS.It’s a crime, and to me this vote has no integrity.

  25. nfl fan says: Feb 2, 2013 6:12 PM

    Thank you Michael Strahan, I took your spot.

  26. steelers88 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:12 PM

    Thank God Chris Carter got in!

  27. rajbais says: Feb 2, 2013 6:14 PM

    The voting committee did a better job than last year even though I disagree with Strahan being left off with Jonathan Ogden getting ahead of him.

    However, it is still time to ban the writers and fire HOF Vice President Joe Horrigan if he wants to keep them as voters. Horrigan seems to be a nice man and may have had a good intention by having local writers representing each NFL team in order to campaign for their hometown gridiron greats to be recognized and ultimately enshrined. But as we throw our hands up in the air and curse out profanities (with our moms outside of the TV viewing room, however) as the worthy guys get snubbed again maybe it is time for his integrity and judgement to come into question.

    If he told Rich Eisen on his podcast that he overviews the process, off-the-field matters cannot count or be spoken of in the debate process. He said they will stop the voter in his or her speech if off-the-field or personality is mentioned in the argument or discussion and emphasize that what they player and coach did on the field and what the executive in the front office can used for the argument.

    “On and off-the-field behavior is not to be considered,” Horrigan said.

    Clearly it does matter in the eyes of the voters. As fans, ex-players, and media hosts constantly rationalize the lack of a candidate’s entry based on personal dislike or bias from voters the voters keep using hindrances that clearly regard what should not be considered.

    Do you need good behavior to be good teammate? Likely, yes. Does bad behavior play a big role in being a bad teammate? Of course.

    Guess what factors into one’s candidacy? … Whether the player was a good teammate?

    No Joke.

    For instance, Hall of Fame voter Nancy Gay discussed how Tim Brown’s worsened his chances by accusing Bill Callahan of sabotaging the Super Bowl XXXVII game plan with Fox Sports Radio’s “FS Primetime”.

    Tim Brown’s comments “call into question whether Tim Brown was a good teammate. Was he so concerned about his own performance in that game that he was looking for a reason for why they lost.”

    What?

    So let me get this straight. He was NOT a great player because of his selfishness (which was also likely key for his success) and the writers determined it by SPECULATING after he accused Bill Callahan of sabotaging the game plan while having NO DEFINITIVE EVIDENCE of their own to directly prove his selfishness.

    It gets better. Though they’re not eligible to be candidates Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are considered likely to go in because of their career numbers, but Hall of Fame voter Rick Gosselin seemed to say “not so fast” in an article he wrote about the two in November 2011.

    “There’s no guarantee either Moss or Owens will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Frankly, there’s no guarantee either will ever have a bust in Canton.”
    “Football remains the ultimate team game with 22 moving parts on the field every snap. But [Terrell] Owens and [Randy] Moss weren’t the ultimate team players. Too much “me,” not enough “we.”?”

    Gosselin went on further writing about how when “the numbers start to blur, you must look at the impact of a player.

    In his final 12 seasons, Owens participated in one playoff victory. All five of his teams — San Francisco, Philadelphia, Dallas, Buffalo and Cincinnati — couldn’t wait to rid themselves of him. Does that sound like a Hall of Fame player?

    Moss, 34, played in one losing Super Bowl with New England. In the five years Moss played together with Carter at Minnesota, forming arguably the most prolific receiving tandem in NFL history, the Vikings managed to win just three playoff games.”

    Apparently every team has wins because of one player. They want to bring up the teammate argument to keep them out, but a team accomplishment defines a player individually? Now you know why people find it stupid when others advocate for Jim Plunkett’s enshrinement. If team accomplishments defined individual players why are Charles Haley, Randy Cross, and Roger Craig not in Canton?

    The fact is there is no real definition of a teammate!!! There is none!!! You could be a good teammate by verbally supporting regardless of the support’s authenticity; busting your butt for your teammates on the field, make key plays for others, treating them with courtesy in the locker room, giving pre-game speeches, etc.

    However you are technically questioning behavior because behavior determines character and character determines how you were as a teammate. If these writers want to show how great players were as teammates on the field they should do so on coaching tape, but the last time I checked coaching tape determines player greatness or weakness and not the caliber of teammate one was. As they are clearly as factoring behavior despite terrible denials the last thing you want is for these individuals to attempt to break down tape.

    When the Hall of Fame voting committee claims or at least puts us under the impression that it is trying to put the best players in are we that dumb enough to think that if a player have told another teammate “keep your chin up” that helped him execute memorable plays that symbolized his greatness?

    Does Peter King telling us that as he “strongly advocated” for Art Monk because he was an “unquestioned leader on a three-time Super Bowl champ, superb downfield blocker, retired as the all-time receptions leader, never squawked for the ball with some other me guys in the locker room” not make him worthy for his judgment or integrity to be questioned? We should because being an “unquestioned leader” or having never “squawked for the ball” does not factor into how great one plays.

    It is likely the same as Jeff Ireland asking Dez Bryant if his mom is a prostitute because Bryant shutting up really defines how well he runs a skinny post that eventually leads to a touchdown, getting his team back onto the scoreboard. Plus, how were quarterbacks like Dan Marino not defined as selfish when he wanted to throw it while Jimmy Johnson wanted to run it or when Eric Dickerson had a reputation of wanting the game to be about his stats?

    Peyton Manning is considered a likely shoe-in Hall of Famer when no one criticizes him for wanting to “chase all the record books” or speculates about his team when the avid passing game (likely under Manning’s behest) has likely led his teams to come off as predictable as he has more one-and-outs than any great signal-caller in NFL history. When Bob Kravitz tells Jason Whitlock on his podcast that “he’s a control freak, calculated, and very calculating,” a “monumental pain in the ass,” and that “it’s gotta be his way or no way” this should not bode well for the voters who emphasize that being a good teammate matters; particularly when this comes from a respectable writer like Kravitz. It also does not when Peyton asked for a $34 million signing bonus, got it, and had a salary that prevented the Colts to get better players around him. How is that not selfish? If it was not why was he so insecure around Dan Patrick after DP asked him the question?

    Do we have to get into Brett Favre?

    I am on the record on a PFT message board stating the following with respect to Favre

    “Peter King for example told NFL Network that the “cancer in the locker room” argument would be used for Randy Moss during his time with the Raiders (but not the Vikings).”

    “Plus, I’ve heard three different NFL columnists during radio interviews give stories that have players and management painting Favre as a distraction or as a selfish guy that is hurting the team.

    Those columnists are Jay Glazer, Adam Schefter, and Ross Tucker. Glazer had some stuff with regard to Favre in Green Bay and NY; Schefter talked about how Green Bay management told him that Favre “ruined our summer” in 2008, and Tucker had stuff from his Vikings teammates talking about how distracting his retirement flirtation was becoming.”

    Regardless, being a good or bad teammate is indicative of and tied to behavior. That is rational, true, and an unethical argument to define or belittle one’s greatness. You think that they’re playing code games and define off-the-field factors only as using drugs, beating up women, and getting arrested.

    The history of the teammate argument is one I am extremely unaware of, but I first heard about it when Steve Sabol mentioned it to WQAM with respect to a Hall of Fame hopeful who was not enshrined in 2010. I forget the player’s name, but after that I went further to find out more over the years and got slight clues at best. Then I saw the proverbial “tip of the iceberg” from Gosselin in 2011 and the “nail in the coffin” from Gay in 2013.

    Another garbage argument: player removals. If they were so good why did the teams get rid of them?

    In the same November 2011 article Gosselin mentioned this about Terrell Owens and Randy Moss.
    “Like Owens, each of his five teams — Minnesota, Oakland, New England, Minnesota again and Tennessee — couldn’t wait to unload Moss.”

    Apparently terrible general managers, owners, coaches, and free agent and draft busts never existed on Owens or Moss’s teams. It also seems as if they do not have to take any financial or business account with regard to players. The voters seem to act as if no politics, contractual disputes, philosophical conflicts, a salary cap, free agency, and a league that demands for parity exist while there are other enshrined players who were rid of by various teams too.

    James Lofton, Eric Dickerson, Rod Woodson, Warren Moon, George Blanda, Chris Doleman, Richard Dent, Deion Sanders, and future and likely shoe-in HOFer Brett Favre all played for at least 4 teams. That’s right! At least 4!

    Doesn’t a team have to outbid your new team in free agency or create room for you by removing others in order for you to stay? What about politics and circumstances?

    In the case of Favre the need to play a first rounder like Aaron Rodgers played a role in his departure despite finishing 2nd in MVP voting the season before. He did not help his cause with Green Bay by retiring because if he did there was no coming back for him. Also, if he is available in July why not keep him?

    Seriously! That goes for the Falcons and what happened when the Vikings ended 2010? Leslie Frazier shut the door on the possibility of Favre coming back. I first read that on PFT. Plus, the Jets could have prevented him to go to the Vikings because in order for him to be a free agent he had to be released while retired. You do not think that he would have played once training camp came around? He really cared about that streak, as we learned in 2010. That being said his release ultimately happened and, more than likely, voters will not take this into account.

    Let’s not even talk about the locker room particularly when it is most synonymous with Terrell Owens as his candidacy will likely be discussed when he becomes eligible. That should be disregarded too because it and its moments are LITERALLY off-the-field , hence not worthy of discussion. Teams need players to practice, work well in the weight room, and maintain themselves physically in tip-top condition too, but they still kept cigarette smokers like Fred Biletnikoff or Mike Ditka in Canton even cigarettes hurt your endurance and are not used by today’s players so they do not slow down. Why continue to debate for more smokers? Cigarette smoking football players were detriments to their teams because they could have seen other non-smokers and realize that the non-smokers had an athletic advantage.

    Through the willingness to self-contradict, perform blatant hypocrisy, and clearly violate voting rules the writers are also showing us that they likely believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. It is possible that they care more about presenting fairy tales. They should just admit that they care about voting for unicorns, fantasy characters that fit the magical tale despite overruling themselves with the selections of Lawrence Taylor, Michael Irvin, or anyone else who carried a DUI arrest or conviction. Heaven forbid that you could have literally ended a life.

    What these writers are doing is conspiratorially theorizing and they are willing to sacrifice whatever journalistic integrity and voting morality or sanity they have in order to keep players in or out.

    And the people who are upset are not helping as their only rationalization for a player’s lack of entry is that he is disliked by voters. I am starting to believe people like Peter King and Nancy Gay when she describes the “misconception”.

    “I don’t know of anybody that holds a particular bias against any of the candidates because this guy snubbed me in the locker room or is a jerk to me.”

    “I can’t sleep at night if I keep a guy out of the Hall of Fame because he didn’t do an interview with me. That’s ridiculous”

    King told Dan Patrick in February 2012 that he never “heard it one time. … Cris Carter [before his 2013 enshrinement] is not being left out of the Hall of Fame because people think he’s a jerk. I don’t hear it Dan!”

    With all that said Joe Horrigan might continue to claim that he refrains a voter from using off-the-field criteria or behavior, but he clearly is not doing a good job of it. He is showing us that he is powerless and being treated like a doormat. If he wants power he needs to replace all the writers with formers scouts turned analysts or media members who can pass a scouting test conducted by Blesto and National Scouting, the two scouting services that gather all the draft names for every team’s prospect board. At least scouts know organizational inner workings, the employers, their fellow employees, and judge greatness by watching coaching tape.

    They are better options when guys like Rick Gosselin’s best response for the lack of wide receiver enshrinement is that “there is no longer any magic in the numbers.

    Cris Carter believed he was a first-ballot Hall of Famer with his 1,101 career catches. So did Tim Brown with his 1,094 catches. They retired as the second and third all-time receivers in NFL history.

    But Carter has been a finalist for the Hall of Fame four times and has been passed over by the selection committee each time. Brown has been a finalist twice and is 0-for-2.

    The committee is trying to get a grasp on the concept of 1,000 catches. Is that statistic a result of the ability of a player — or the style of the game today?”

    Every draft year and free agency comes and scouts evaluate all sorts of players. They rank talent and playmaking based on coaching tap, but only factor in behavior or off-the-field factors because money affects personality and those who are not mature enough to handle it mess up the team’s salary cap as players unworthy of their current pay. Just go ask JaMarcus Russell, Adam Jones, Lawrence Phillips and free agent veterans like Braylon Edwards and Jason Babin.

    At least ex-scouts like Daniel Jeremiah and Russ Lande reveal us their honest opinions through tape studies on how well or poor players and teams are playing. That is right. They are not determining greatness by factoring in the caliber of teammate that one was which is a sign that they have sanity and fortitude. For the case of a future candidate like Terrell Owens one scout had the guts to tell me that Owens was “worthy [of Hall of Fame enshrinement] from [a] talent standpoint. His personality will make it difficult for [writers] to put him in.” Ex-NFL scout Matt Williamson of ESPN.com’s Scouts Inc. said June 2011 that Terrell Owens was an “easy Hall of Famer. He’s a lock. Like him or not get used to it” and that his greatness should overcome the notion that he is known to tear apart teams. He also noted that he would put him in Canton over Cris Carter while noting that Carter is worthy of enshrinement.

    This might be the controversial player to enter into Canton once he is eligible, but his future candidacy along with others’ show why the process is not only flawed, but corrupt.

    If the scouts and game tape analysts are willing to be more discrete about player abilities, study them objectively through tape, and not clout their thoughts while violating Hall of Fame rules they should be the judges. They can show us on TV or online by breaking down the tape and no way will they emphasize on player personality when the only thing that can be revealed is ability.

    The writers are too disingenuous to vote as they keep claiming or leaving us under the impression that player greatness matters. I hate to offend PFT’s very own and Hall of Fame voter Darin Gantt individually because I have found him to be fair after reading his work on PFT, but voting brethren clearly they do not take accountability for their judgments by not revealing what happened in the voting room. This happens even though they want sports figures to be accountable and now they are showing us that they are too unintelligent to vote.

    Joe Horrigan needs to recognize that his voters are the problem. If he is unwilling to he needs to go, hence making the Hall of Fame a less corrupt place and one that truly defines greatness.

  28. jakec4 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:15 PM

    The voters tolerance for drunks and crackheads has never been an issue, but Art Modell not getting in posthumously is some serious grudge holding.

  29. stairwayto7 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:15 PM

    A drunk Chris Carter and a bankrupt,pot head smoking and snith named Sapp get in? If Sapp did not work for NFL Network he would not have gotten in.

  30. shogunassasin30 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:15 PM

    You could not possibly comprehend, the enormity of the FU** I do not give, for you Warren Sapp haters. So youre traumatized that he rejected some of you fan boy autograph requests, OH NO’S!!

    In the end, it does not matter. As it shouldn’t. The Bucs defense in the 90’s and early 2000’s is one of the greatest of all time. The guy that made it go was Sapp. I’m a Bronco fan and I live in CO in case you think im not being objective. In any case, for about a 6-7 yr period, he was not only the best DT in the leagye BY FAR he was one of the top defensive players. He redfined the under tackle position and was not a pass rusher only. Voters are smarter than you. And they got it 100% correct.

  31. pjofar77 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:16 PM

    Tony Dungy? Nice plug for your colleague. Hahahahahaha. I remember him as the guy who couldn’t get it done in Tampa

  32. cinvis says: Feb 2, 2013 6:17 PM

    Unbelievable,. The voters (the media) actually voted for the best players instead of who gave the best interview. :shocked:

  33. hatesycophants says: Feb 2, 2013 6:18 PM

    Good class.

  34. randyschwimmer7 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:18 PM

    Kind of shocked Strahan didn’t make it.

  35. eweezy32 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:18 PM

    How is modell still not in? Blows my mind

  36. raiderlyfe510 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:19 PM

    Sapp & Carter on before Charles Haley & Tim Brown.

    The pro football Hall of Fame has no credibility at all. To call a player a Hall of Famer now means absolutely nothing to me.

  37. commonsensedude says: Feb 2, 2013 6:19 PM

    Some HOF voters from Cleveland must still be taking some posthumous shots at Art Modell. I knew they were bitter enough to keep him from getting in during his lifetime but this is a little ridiculous.

  38. bubbalynch says: Feb 2, 2013 6:19 PM

    Cris Carter before Tim Brown? What a joke! A big farce the HOF is becoming! Sapp? 1st timer? Smh

  39. manilovethepftcensors says: Feb 2, 2013 6:19 PM

    If Cris Carter wasn’t a complete tool he would have already been elected. I can’t stand listening to him talk on ESPN. He is the worst.

  40. schaeff08 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:20 PM

    Derrick Brooks, Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2014

  41. themagicfanguy says: Feb 2, 2013 6:20 PM

    Kramer should be in, as should Strahan.

  42. sbmcintosh36 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:20 PM

    Congrats Cris you deserve it,Strahan needed to be in before Sapp that’s wrong

  43. purpleguy says: Feb 2, 2013 6:21 PM

    Congrats to CC — not the nicest human being but he deserves to be HOFer. And as to the comment above, Art Monk couldn’t hold his jock, which is clear by the nomination process. Lastly, who’s the dude writing War and Peace above — geez.

  44. poiuyt7 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:21 PM

    Jerry Kramer not getting in the HOF is a travesty. He was a member of the NFL’s 50th Anniversary Team, a member of the NFL 1960’s All-Decade Team, and was instrumental in the greatest play of arguably the greatest game in NFL history. What more could he have done?

  45. trevector says: Feb 2, 2013 6:21 PM

    Congrats to CC, two years too late, but awesome nonetheless.

  46. xplicitpits says: Feb 2, 2013 6:25 PM

    All in all great class! No complaints all worthy!

  47. otto00 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:25 PM

    CC over TB is a travesty.

    However – this pales in comparison to Cliff Branch not being in while Lynn Swann is.

  48. butteredsanta says: Feb 2, 2013 6:26 PM

    For all the whiners complaining about the Art Modell grudge imagine if DeBartolo had fired legendary Bill Walsh, forced Joe Montana from the team by insulting him and humiliating him and them moved the 49’ers. Would he even be considered? Of course not. Screw Modell. As the Raven says “Nevermore”.

  49. dt58 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:26 PM

    Good for Carter. Now get Shields in there

  50. greeneblitz says: Feb 2, 2013 6:27 PM

    Buffalo Bills receiver Andre Reed shafted again, and for this clown Carter of all people.

  51. scoobies05 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:29 PM

    congrats to jon ogden and all of the members of the hof class of 2013. the greatest individual honor a pro athlete can acheive isw the hall of fame.

  52. link49 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:29 PM

    What the hell is B Parcell in HoF ? Art Modell & Tim Brown must be in b 4 this fat guy…is fiasco to the Football

  53. emperorzero says: Feb 2, 2013 6:29 PM

    I never thought he was a first-ballot Hall of Famer, but it’s criminal that Charles Haley isn’t in by now. If Tim Brown couldn’t make the cut to 10, good luck to most of the wide receivers coming up then.

  54. andrewfbrowne says: Feb 2, 2013 6:30 PM

    Andre Reed has been a finalist now 7 times. That makes him 0-11 on Superbowl weekends for his life. That is rough. He deserves better. He was my favorite Bill growing up. My high school had a faculty versus the Bills charity basketball game when I was in high school and he dunked on my English teacher. Loved him for that and the way he fearlessly went over the middle during his career. Don’t give up 83!!! Fight on. Also, what is up with the manifesto up there?

  55. pizzon says: Feb 2, 2013 6:30 PM

    for all of the stats that Carter has how did he get in before Reed who IMO during the early and mid 1990’s was the real reason Buffalo had the success that they had. if the writers want to look at which player had the most impact on his team Reed was that guy how many times did Carter get to the playoffs? to me there is no true guidelines set forth in the voting process its ridiculous. Bettis or Strahan should have gotten in before Parcells as well.

  56. tyler4richardson says: Feb 2, 2013 6:30 PM

    Great hall of fame class, congrats to all. John Ogden, what a beauty on the O-Line. I loved watching that guys career.

  57. daknight93 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:30 PM

    Congrats to all the selected hall of famers!

  58. ghosts go boo says: Feb 2, 2013 6:33 PM

    It’s not a true HOF without Mick Tingelhoff!

  59. yourignorancespreads says: Feb 2, 2013 6:36 PM

    Yes congrats to all who made the HOF. But Tim Brown should have def been voted in and scum sapp gets in screw that

  60. joestemme says: Feb 2, 2013 6:37 PM

    Carter is the headliner, but Larry Allen was the best player in this group. Congrats.

  61. getoffmysac says: Feb 2, 2013 6:37 PM

    John lynch is not a hof player- just sayin

  62. wethog66 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:38 PM

    Sapp in before Strahan and Bettis? Just don’t understand.

    NFL HOF becoming as relevant as the PBA HOF.

  63. rajbais says: Feb 2, 2013 6:38 PM

    Cris Carter was a good pick, but Sapp and Ogden ahead of Strahan?

    Strahan was a no-brainer.

    The candidate pool was stronger and more difficult to break down, but I still feel that the writers do not deserve a vote. Instead it should go to ex-scouts turned writers and analysts who pass a coaching tape breakdown test administered by Blesto and National Scouting (the two services that get all the draft pick names on NFL teams’ boards).

    Then the teammate argument garbage that the writers use can be put to rest. The teammate argument opens the doors for character and personality questioning because teammate developed by character and personal actions which (for the most part) do not involve football plays and those are developed from behavior and personality.

    According to HOF VP Joe Horrigan behavior of any kind cannot be used for Hall of Fame enshrinement argument, on and off-the-field. If either of those were used for this year’s enshrinees the writers no longer deserve voting privileges because defining an athletic career by personality traits as a team or locker room member is unethical and a blatant violation of rules that everyone is not noticing.

  64. dtlb58 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:39 PM

    Congrats to Cris Carter! He truly deserved it.

    For those calling for Ray guy…..You need to do your research. He wasn’t even the best punter in his own division. See Jerrel Wilson. Stop spouting off and read.

  65. shogunassasin30 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:41 PM

    Wow some of you fans should not even be allowed to have an opinion. Sapp at one point was the most feared defensive player in the league. He changed the entire culture of that pitiful loser organization down in Tampa, and made them down right scary to play. Strahan, and definitely Charles Haley did not have that kind of impact. 2 time all decade team, 7 straight probowls as a defensive tackle. Seriously, are some of you that DUMB

  66. raidernation210 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:41 PM

    Once again no Ray Guy, just shows what an absolute disgrace this committee really is. the best player to ever play his position and still these loser writers which most of them i am sure never played a down of football in their life are the ones who decides who get’s in.

  67. football2011 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:41 PM

    Congrats CC! 18th man who played, coached or managed for the Vikings in the HOF and 12th who got there primarily through thier accomplishments as a Vikings. Great Day for CC and the Viking’s organization!

  68. gbatap says: Feb 2, 2013 6:42 PM

    They proved just how much of a sham HoF voting is when they put Aeneas Williams through to the top 10 over Will Shields.

  69. runtheball says: Feb 2, 2013 6:47 PM

    Parcells is overrated. Sapp is a disgrace as a person, but he is deserving same with Haley.

    Greene is underrated excelled at 3 positions. Sack record for LBs.

  70. Shinnbone says: Feb 2, 2013 6:51 PM

    Oh let me make a wild guess and say that “Tony Dungy” will get in on his first try….

  71. jr4real says: Feb 2, 2013 6:52 PM

    Sapp and Carter? JOKE.

    Bettis was better and played longer that both of these bums.

    What a joke.

  72. veence69 says: Feb 2, 2013 6:52 PM

    Say what you want about Cris Carter as a person. You’re only selling yourself short as an NFL fan by not appreciating Cris Carter as a receiver and acting shhty because he’s being inducted into the HOF.

    Go watch a highlight reel of this guy on the field.

  73. vikesfansteve says: Feb 2, 2013 6:56 PM

    CC needs to thank Tim Brown for his drunken tirade against Callahan, basically eliminating Brown and putting Carter in line for induction. That and the fact the lady who kept voting no on him isn’t voting this year.

  74. keakuamai says: Feb 2, 2013 7:00 PM

    First of all congrats to the OF class of 2013!

    I’m pretty disappointed Eddie and Art didn’t get through and believe it’s time for different categories for the HOF; owners, coaches, and players as well as the seniors which already exists.

    Seems like the only fair way to do it. How can you keep an owner out who changed the history of the game and the other who helped his team win 5 world championships?

    Sure one snuck his team out of town in the middle of the night and the other got busted for getting duped by a governor, but that’s ancient history and what they did for the league was and remains unsurpassed.

  75. avanderlay says: Feb 2, 2013 7:03 PM

    No one in the modern era deserves to be a first ballot HOFer more than #55 Mr. Derrick Brooks. An elite presence on and off the field for every minute he was in the league.

  76. thisonesforpat says: Feb 2, 2013 7:04 PM

    Tim Brown just isn’t Hall of Fame. And that was BEFORE the stupid Super Bowl conspiracy nonsense.

  77. autumnwind999 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:05 PM

    No Tim Brown again? Not even in the top 10? LMAO. Who are these socalled voters? Carter is deserving, but not over TB who has 1,000 more receiving yards. Given that, how is Carter in and TB isn’t even top 10.

    Tim Brown, Ken Stabler, Cliff Branch, Todd Christensen, Lester Hayes … the list of Raiders snubs just continues to grow, doesn’t it. Very interesting. And by interesting, I mean suspicious.

  78. q1ller says: Feb 2, 2013 7:06 PM

    Cris Carter was without a doubt the correct WR to put in first out of the 3 player logjam, and today’s results confirm it.

  79. bryangy says: Feb 2, 2013 7:08 PM

    Great class, all are deserving. Watching them on NFL Net & all seem suitably humble. Especially Sapp & Carter whom I generally find rather unlikable in their TV persona.

    Thought Shields would be in the final 10 if not chosen but having Allen & Ogden both selected in their 1st year of eligibility can hardly be criticized. Can see him going in within a year or two as seems to be the next OL up.

    Little surprised that Strahan wasn’t chosen with his high profile but can’t see him not making it in next year. Haley likely will have to wait a year or so past that but can’t think of any other pass rushers more deserving not already in HOF.

    Like they said on the broadcast can’t see how the selectors can evaluate players vs owners & even coaches. Really think they should have a separate election process. Btw, surprised Steve Sabol not yet selected as he probably meant more for the millions of fans enjoyment than most anyone else associated with the game. Would have been great if he had been inducted before his unfortunate passing and with his already enshrined father.

  80. dirtydrew says: Feb 2, 2013 7:10 PM

    Sapp before Charles Haley and is 5 rings. Ridiculous. And Parcells should have to Waite for Tom Flores and George Siefert. The fact Jim Plunckett in not in the hall is lame.

  81. upstaterules says: Feb 2, 2013 7:11 PM

    Wrong wr went first. How did he do in the playoffs?

  82. johnnyhambone says: Feb 2, 2013 7:12 PM

    well now we know why the nfl network didn’t fire warren sapp last off season. The vote was rigged so sapp would get into the hall of fame . the nfl network is now gloating to have 4 hall of fame dummies who don’t know how to speak english(faulk,sanders,irvin,sapp) on their pathetic pre game show.

  83. bartlettruss says: Feb 2, 2013 7:13 PM

    They say that off the field matters don’t count, but Tim Brown can’t break the top ten? Give me a break. It’ll be interesting to see how they handle Marvin Harrison next year with the accusations swirling about him and a murder for hire….

  84. randallflagg52 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:15 PM

    Pretty solid HOF class, with the exception of Parcells. I think Haley or Brown should have gotten in instead of him.

  85. pgh15212 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:17 PM

    Tony Dungy better get in the Hall-of-Fame. He was the first coach to ever sell his soul for a championship. Well, it was his son’s soul. What a terrible father and husband. He would rather coach Peyton Manning instead of being there for his family when they needed him most.

  86. bmoresabres says: Feb 2, 2013 7:19 PM

    Chris Carter piled up meaningless stats and did not participate in one Super Bowl. I can vividly recalled how he was laughing on the sidelines one year when the Vikings were rolled in a playoff game against the Giants. Art Monk waited years and was a Super Bowl champion. Carter if anything is the champion of coke.

  87. steviaquinn says: Feb 2, 2013 7:28 PM

    If Ray Guy isnt in the HOF , why even have a Hall of fame?

  88. raylangivens2 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:32 PM

    If Chris Carter got in then Issac Bruce better get in next year, he was a much better receiver, has a ring, and caught the go ahead 80 yard touchdown pass in the SB.

  89. jrosenbaum says: Feb 2, 2013 7:35 PM

    One of my favorite YouTube videos is of Jets fans chanting “We want Sapp! We want Sapp!” Then the Jets drafted, I think, Kyle Brady. We can see now why that was a draft day blunder.

    Obviously Sapp is not that great of a human being, but there’s no denying him coming on the scene turned Tampa Bay into an elite team for nearly a decade.

  90. kingpel says: Feb 2, 2013 7:39 PM

    Damn. Watching Cris Carter sulk every year was the most entertaining part of this entire HOF event.

  91. nygfan56 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:42 PM

    You can imagine my dismay with Strahan not getting in and Sapp in, as the results are what they are. Us fans are subject to the bians whatver it is for any of the finalists.

    CC is a very good receiver but … HOF ???
    Andre Reed also very good but …HOF??

    Happy as all get out for Parcells to get in and he
    deserves all of it. What he did for NYG and Pats’!
    Just to here him speak he is a football GOD!!
    If you don’t think so you don’t know squat about football!!

    Go NYG

  92. nygfan56 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:45 PM

    Sorry my previour thought was:
    Us fans are subject to the bias wha tever it is …

  93. stevenwilliams2013 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:45 PM

    Is that Cris Carter’s wife or another football player sitting next to him?

  94. mrlaloosh says: Feb 2, 2013 7:51 PM

    Finally Carter can stop whining!

  95. azjam says: Feb 2, 2013 7:52 PM

    Very haapy that Chris Carter got in. I think its an excellent class. Congratulations to all.

  96. 1972wasalongtimeago says: Feb 2, 2013 7:54 PM

    Just remember, not one person Parcells drafted in 2008 is still with the team (and he had the #1 pick), and the Head Coach he picked has since been fired by not one but TWO teams.

  97. MTLighthouse69 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:54 PM

    And they still haven’t put Don Coryell in the HOF. How pathetic is that?

  98. waggs12 says: Feb 2, 2013 7:55 PM

    First of all, Cris Carter deserves to be in, and anyone disagreeing is biased. For those of you saying Tim Brown and Andre Reed should be in before Carter, let’s just look at the stats that some of you say we should all look at.

    CC – 1,101 Rec, 13,899 Rec Yards, 130 TD’s…the teams he was on made the playoffs 10 times out of his 16 years and they were 4-10 in total playoff games with 0 Super Bowl wins

    TB – 1,094 Rec, 14,934 Rec Yards, 105 TD’s…the teams he was on made the playoffs 6 times out of his 17 years and they were 6-6 in total playoff games with 0 Super Bowl wins

    AR – 951 Rec, 13,198 Rec Yards, 87 TD’s…the teams he was on made the playoffs 11 times out of his 16 years and they were 11-11 in total playoff games with 0 Super Bowl wins

    So for those that say the HOF has no credibility because Carter made if before Brown and Reed, look at the stats. Brown definitely should make the HOF, and although Reed was good, his numbers show that he couldn’t carry CC or TB’s jock strap. If anyone else wants to argue about it, your points are now invalid.

  99. thatswhatsgooood says: Feb 2, 2013 8:04 PM

    Johnathan Ogden: First Raven ever drafted, first Raven in the HOF in first year eligible.

    Baltimore Ravens football= A first class franchise from the get-go.

  100. classyjacklambert says: Feb 2, 2013 8:06 PM

    I love how everyone says Jerome Bettis isn’t a hall of famer… why? He is a one of a kind cannonball of a running back that had the 5th highest career yard total ever, and he did it with NO ONE at QB until his last 2 seasons when a young Ben Roethlisberger took him to the big show. He broke the will of defenses that knew he was coming up the middle nearly every time, and still had an amazing success rate on converting for the first down or touch down. He doesn’t have an excellent ypa statline… so what? That’s one stat. He barely ever fumbled, played through injuries, and won a super bowl before retiring. Anyone that says he doesn’t belong is either a Steelers hater or a moron.
    Bettis not making the cut is a crime.

  101. In the Weeds says: Feb 2, 2013 8:27 PM

    They take Chris Carter and Sapp–But No Ray Guy and no Charles Haley?

    Nothing less than Disgraceful and Disgusting.

  102. melikefootball says: Feb 2, 2013 8:31 PM

    Nice group but surprised Bettis does not get more consideration since he was in the top 6 of total yards gained when he retired as well as being a tough yard back. Congrats to all.

  103. q1ller says: Feb 2, 2013 8:33 PM

    Waaaay too much emphasis is put on “rings” and who should get into the HOF, especially when it comes to non-QB positions. Football is the ultimate team sport and it’s crazy to hold it against a player if he played on a TEAM that couldn’t get over the hump. But hey, it’s a convenient argument to use by those fans of teams that did win the Super Bowl. Isn’t it now?!

    Should Barry Sanders have gotten in? He didn’t have any rings.

  104. autumnritual says: Feb 2, 2013 8:38 PM

    Alan Page’s HOF bust to Carl Eller’s HOF bust, “When the heck is Jim Marshall getting here!!??”

  105. autumnritual says: Feb 2, 2013 8:47 PM

    1972wasalongtimeago says: Feb 2, 2013 7:54 PM

    Just remember, not one person Parcells drafted in 2008 is still with the team (and he had the #1 pick), and the Head Coach he picked has since been fired by not one but TWO teams.
    ——————————————————
    The above could be one of the most uninformed posts I’ve ever read here. Are you familiar with Parcells’ work with the Giants, Patriots, and Jets – complete resurrections of three franchises! You’re quibbling over the 2008 Parcells Cowboys draft? You’re not too swift, fella.

  106. trapshoot says: Feb 2, 2013 8:52 PM

    Another fan who cannot understand why Jerry Kramer isn’t in the Hall. Robinson certainly deserved it but so does Kramer.

  107. wozzmann1955 says: Feb 2, 2013 8:59 PM

    At one point in a early 60’s season,Jerry Kramer of the Packers was tied with Jim Brown for the leagues leading scorer,,9 games in.He kicked field goals and extra points and oh,he also played guard and was the man who made the fabled Power Sweep go.Chosen first team most years he played(think pro bowl)Was the starter on 6 League Championship games in 7 years,winning 5 of the 6.
    But he’s not in the HOF.
    And they enshrine Warren Sapp?

    Im confusing the HOF voters with the government now.

  108. ralzdmann says: Feb 2, 2013 9:01 PM

    I’m already tired of hearing about Tony Dungy next year….

  109. Deb says: Feb 2, 2013 9:16 PM

    Congrats to this year’s inductees, particularly to Cris Carter, who has been slighted for far too long. I’m thrilled to see Bill Parcells get his much-deserved recognition as one of the game’s great coaches. It’s terrific for the Ravens fanbase to have Jonathan Ogden admitted to the hall on a weekend when their team is playing in the Super Bowl. Hope it’s a double for them with a win tomorrow night.

    Otherwise, I am extremely disappointed about Jerome Bettis, and sorry Kevin Greene didn’t make the final cut. Maybe next year.

  110. 1972wasalongtimeago says: Feb 2, 2013 9:34 PM

    Autumnritual is clearly not a Dolphins fan. Parcells took a big fat nasty stinky dump on our franchise, and when it was clear how badly he failed, he took the remaining millions on his contract and skipped out. Just like Saban.

    In 2008, the Falcons were just as bad as us and look at them since.

    We’re talking about the Hall of Fame. And when we’re talking Hall of Fame, the ENTIRE résumé counts. Not just the good parts.

  111. mmmpierogi says: Feb 2, 2013 9:35 PM

    Looking forward to seeing Bettis and Greene getting inducted together. Surprised Better didn’t get in this year. Good for Cris Carter.

  112. strosfan85 says: Feb 2, 2013 9:38 PM

    Congrats to CC on getting in but cant believe “The Bus” got snubbed again..

  113. bryangy says: Feb 2, 2013 9:44 PM

    To the expert who said Andre Reed couldn’t carry Carter or Brown’s jockstrap and that any debate was invalid – get over yourself. From watching the broadcast Rod Woodson sure indicated that he could and point blank endorsed him over the other two. But then what does he know? Only covered these guys for 15 years and by the way a member of the 75 Yr NFL team and a first ballot HOF himself. Even Deion has praised Reed in the past. And remember Buffalo weather in Dec and Jan is not like playing in the Metro Dome or the Bay Area.

    Don’t see why one has to denigrate another to make a case for the one you favour. Obvious the selection committee had them ranked as Carter, Reed & Brown in that order.

    And Reed doesn’t have to carry any other WRs jockstrap with the notable exception of Jerry Rice (and Don Hutson from the early days of the NFL) – just like every other WR to date.

  114. mgpet says: Feb 2, 2013 9:49 PM

    Warren Sapp’s induction has officially rendered the Pro Football Hall of Fame irrelevant.

  115. kev86 says: Feb 2, 2013 9:57 PM

    Some real egomaniacs kept Strahan out. They take it too far. How can you leave Strahan out? Makes no sense. Baseball is worse.

  116. derrickbrooks4president says: Feb 2, 2013 10:02 PM

    Congrats Sapp Daddy. You are a total turd of a person, but there isn’t one poster here calling you out that wouldn’t want you on their squad. You were purified hell on the field. I’m glad you were a pot head at The U or the Bucs would never have been able to touch you at number 8 in the draft. Brooks will join you as a 1st ballot hall of famernext year so you and Lee Roy don’t get lonely in the newly built Buccaneer wing in the hall of fame. All the haters from the other teams can suck it! If Strahan would have got that All Pro spitting gap fixed in his grill he might have made it 1st ballot but at least he’s sacking Kelly Ripa!

  117. silvercutlery says: Feb 2, 2013 10:04 PM

    Calvin just called in.

    Said he doesn’t think Chris Carter is in the Top 5 players from this class. Said he just goes by what he sees on tape.

    Says he’s good, but just not Top 5.

  118. kev86 says: Feb 2, 2013 10:13 PM

    Parcells quitting in the Giants the way he did ( late) and sticking us with Handley over Cleveland’s Belichek always will rub mecthecwrong way but I loved him from like 85-90. He was a classic. Def. a HOF coach.

  119. sasquash20 says: Feb 2, 2013 10:19 PM

    Don’t know how Strahan didn’t get in and Sapp did(I think both are deserving but Strahan was better, and I’m an Eagles fan and hate both of them). Same thing with Carter over Brown. Brown had over 5000 more all purpose yards. Again both should get in but Brown was better.

  120. thegloriousone says: Feb 2, 2013 10:34 PM

    I’m please with all of the inductees. Congrats guys.

    I’m especially glad that they didn’t honor that turncoat Judas Modell.

    May he never see the Hall.

  121. sasquash20 says: Feb 2, 2013 10:34 PM

    Issac Bruce makes it a log jam next year as well at WR. Bruce had over 1000 receptions for over 15000 yards (that is more receiving yards then Carter, Brown and Reed all had, Brown does have another 5000 return yards). Please just put them in. NFL needs to let a few extra in every year in my opinion.

  122. thegloriousone says: Feb 2, 2013 10:44 PM

    Warren Sapp’s induction has officially rendered the Pro Football Hall of Fame irrelevant.

    ———————————————————-

    Don’t worry. The Hall regained it’s credibility when it left Modell out. Again.

  123. completefan says: Feb 2, 2013 10:49 PM

    CC in the Hall of Fame.

    C’Mon Man!

  124. kingpel says: Feb 2, 2013 10:54 PM

    And Issac Bruce had a Super Bowl winning 80 yard bomb! Boo-Yah!

  125. musicman495 says: Feb 2, 2013 11:17 PM

    Good group this year – much better than last year.

    And just for the record, I am glad Modell did not get in, and not out of any resentment – I just cannot for the life of me figure out how Art Modell is even being considered for the HOF. As an owner his greatest accomplishments were firing Paul Brown, getting Jim Brown to quit football, and moving his team to another city.

    His team won one lousy title in 40 years, he was not one-tenth as influential in the marriage of television and the NFL as Pete Rozelle, and why he is getting credit for revenue sharing I do not know. It was easy for the owner of the money-losing Browns to ask for revenue sharing from the big market teams. The league’s hero was Wellington Mara who agreed to it. And by the way, Mara deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

  126. hemisweeeet says: Feb 2, 2013 11:17 PM

    No Will Shields? What a crime.

  127. runtheball says: Feb 2, 2013 11:26 PM

    All the WRs have stats. I don’t want to say stats are meaningless, but does anyone really think Donald Driver was a better receiver than Don Hutson or Sterling Sharpe?

  128. pksoze says: Feb 2, 2013 11:33 PM

    Warren Sapp was not even the best defensive player on his team Brooks was. The man was cut and was a total flop with the Raiders. Strahan put up big numbers without a Lynch,Brooks, or Barber(the non annoying version). So yes I believe Strahan was the better player and yes he’s also a better man.

  129. jlilly67 says: Feb 3, 2013 2:18 AM

    Good for u Cris Carter…..it’s about time

  130. nflrule says: Feb 3, 2013 8:00 AM

    Carter had the best hands ive ever seen.Sapp getting in was a reach i think.Dominant DT no doubt but as someone who also thought Strahan was overrated they both did not deserve to get in.Larry Allen was a beast and Ogden as well.Parcells is in because of reputation more than results.If the Bills didnt go wide right,would Parcells be in this discussion?Charles Haley is the biggest joke of all.5 rings-a guy you had to account for all the time who came up big in the big games.

  131. upstaterules says: Feb 3, 2013 10:09 AM

    Chris Carter over Andre Reed? C’mon Man!!!

    Sadly this little segment he does on Monday Night football was the difference!!

  132. cjspiller12 says: Feb 3, 2013 11:09 AM

    To the expert who said Andre Reed couldn’t carry Carter or Brown’s jockstrap and that any debate was invalid – get over yourself. From watching the broadcast Rod Woodson sure indicated that he could and point blank endorsed him over the other two. But then what does he know? Only covered these guys for 15 years and by the way a member of the 75 Yr NFL team and a first ballot HOF himself. Even Deion has praised Reed in the past. And remember Buffalo weather in Dec and Jan is not like playing in the Metro Dome or the Bay Area.

    Don’t see why one has to denigrate another to make a case for the one you favour. Obvious the selection committee had them ranked as Carter, Reed & Brown in that order.

    And Reed doesn’t have to carry any other WRs jockstrap with the notable exception of Jerry Rice (and Don Hutson from the early days of the NFL) – just like every other WR to date.
    _________________________________
    This guy was spot on with his post about Reed. Also, add in the fact that Buffalo actually ran the ball 60% of the time in the K-Gun and Reed STILL put up the numbers he did. Reed was the best WR ever to go over the middle. Reed got robbed again!!!

  133. bond3940 says: Feb 4, 2013 11:38 AM

    I will not talk bad about any player..but how is it that the “Bus” has not been voted into the hall of fame.. 5 all time when he was playing…change the perception that a big back (~>250 lbs)..can make people miss, but also run through defenders…Jerome Bettis should be in the Hall of fame!!!

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