Jim Miller relies on religion to justify intolerance of homosexuals

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The fact that the NFL isn’t ready for openly gay players continues to be proven by the words and actions of men who currently occupy, who previously inhabited NFL, and who will be joining NFL locker rooms.

From 49ers cornerback Chris Culliver’s over-the-top rant against gay teammates to Notre Dame Manti Te’o’s bizarre “farrrrrrr from it” response to Katie Courtic’s,” Are you gay?” to Colorado tight end Nick Kasa’s nonchalant reaction on The Dan Patrick Show to the inherently inappropriate “Do you like girls?” question he faced at the Scouting Combine, it’s obvious that football and homophobia go hand in hand.

Now, a former player who I know and like has joined the fray with an argument that simply doesn’t hold water.  Former NFL quarterback Jim Miller recently told WSCR in Chicago that intolerance is justified by religious beliefs.

“There are some religions that are just not going to accept a gay individual in the locker room,” Miller said.  “So now, are you as an organization going to bring that element into your locker room and think everything is going to be OK?

“Last time I checked, whether it’s Christianity or Muslims or other religions that are out there, they’re just not going to accept it.  They’re just not.  It’s just not realistic for Mike Florio or any progressive or liberal to think that everything is going to be OK in the locker room and we should all just wise up and accept it.”

Miller separately said he “could care less” about a teammate’s sexual orientation.  Still, if his position is accurate, then gay coworkers would be rejected in every American workplace.  After all, every American workplace consists of Christians or Muslims or people who practice other religions that, according to Jim Miller, aggressively object to the mere presence of homosexuals on the same payroll.

The problem with most religions is that the relevant scriptures have enough passages that can be isolated and spun to justify pretty much any position someone wants to adopt.  For example, the Old Testament is rife with outdated and confusing rules and regulations.  In contrast, the New Testament is founded on principles like loving one’s neighbor.

For those who believe sexuality is a choice (I don’t), the concept of free will makes matters that occur behind closed doors the business only of the participants and their maker.  For those who believe that sexual orientation is no different than hair color or nose shape (I do), how would Jesus treat such people?  Would He drive out with stones the perverse sexual demons that were hard-wired into their DNA?  Or would He love them and accept them?

But, hey, maybe I’m just taking specific Biblical passages out of context.  I mean, maybe God wants us to reject His creatures for the way He created them.

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152 responses to “Jim Miller relies on religion to justify intolerance of homosexuals

  1. Everyone must define “intolerant” This word constantly used by media.

    Just because one does not want to be forced to agree with that lifestyle, does not mean they are “intolerant”. If you believe it is wrong, that is what you believe. That does NOT mean you are intolerant of those who participate in that lifestyle.

    You cannot force things on people no matter if you say it 1000 times. Maybe the media can quit accusing those who have religious values of being intolerant, and instead, just leave everyone alone????

  2. Wow, I can’t believe we are still this intolerant in this day and age. Who cares what someone does in the privacy of their bedroom? Really?

  3. It probably be wise to stop blabbering now about Old Testament and New Testament texts of which you have no understanding.

    Jesus was big on the Old Testament prophets (even mean old Moses, see John 5:47) and the Old Testament law (see Matt 5:17-18).

    Jesus also said that if you loved Him you would also love His Commandments (see John 15:10).

    Also the quotation “Love your neighbor as yourself”? Yeah Jesus is just repeating what Moses wrote in Leviticus. (See Mark 12:31 and Leviticus 19:18).

  4. Jim Miller relies on religion not to hurt others, murder others, not to steal, not to lie, not to cheat, ya know, all those things getting so popular with the “new culture” of this country. Strange times man.

  5. Florio, you’re right and you’re wrong.

    People do not choose what they’re attracted to. However, there is a decision made every time one acts on an attraction.

  6. We have gays and lesbians at my workplace and I could care less. They are good people. I just don’t want a gay to ask me out…awkward. One difference from my workplace and the NFL workplace is that we don’t shower together.

  7. Florio, why do you continue to flog this horse? NBC already has an unfortunate reputation for their journalists being activists in disguise. You’re certainly entitled to your point of view but should also recognize that diving into the culture wars is a bad move for your employer.

  8. Once again, this shows, the best religion is no religion. It always strikes me how many have been threatened, harmed or killed in the name of that person’s religious followings.

  9. Steeelfann, ask a Native American if those things are “new.” Maybe you shouldnt have slept through U.S. history class.

  10. Miller played football. Locker Room chemistry is quite different than working in a cube job. There’s lots of reasons various players aren’t drafted by teams and it can range from things as simple as personality types. Which can be affected by various religions to orientations. Heck, some teams might want the absence of religious players on their teams.

    I think any coach, any team, or any organization is going to try to win as many games as possible.

    This is just trying to spin out a story. A bit of a stretch I might add.

    And your OT analysis is a bit off. There’s a lot of ‘rules’ there, but for different people. Also, it’s a narrative. New Testament isn’t so much built on be nice to your neighbor. In fact Jesus talks about Hell more than any other theological topic.

    It’s about the son coming to be a propitiation for sin. (all those rules you talked about in the OT) So He meets all those ‘rules’ and offers life to those who are repentant.

  11. This guy was a crappy QB and got beat for the starting position repeatedly by Kordell Stewart when he was a Steeler. Who cares what he has to say?

  12. Lots of people rely on religion to justify their own stupidity, ignorance, and bigotry. What are NFL players so afraid of? Someone reaching between their legs for some balls?

  13. Religion now Florio? You can’t hardly get the sports stuff right. Now you’re speaking on religion. You’re a dope, keep your liberal progressive opinions to yourself. Let’s talk about sports.

  14. An inconvenient aspect of this argument. It is true that Gays and Lesbians are accepted in the majority of workplaces. This is not always completely willingly or unbegrudgingly, but they are accepted. However, the VAST majority of workplaces do no involve people being naked and sharing shower facilities. Being ok with a Gay coworker is one thing. Being ok with sharing a shower with them is another thing completely. Things like this take time. I just don’t think we are that far along yet, and it might be quite a while.

  15. Everyone has a predisposition to sin, and different people have different tendencies and predispositions hardwired into them. You and I may not have a choice in what we are drawn too. However, whatever temptation that haunts you, sin is a choice. There are a lot of things that my flesh would like to do, that I choose not to do. I choose Jesus as my Lord and I follow Him.

    Oh…yeah. And I don’t hate anyone. I’ve got many great friends who are gay that I’d jump in front of a train for, and I had 2 gay roommates before I got married. Please quit trying to make Christians look hateful and intolerant.

  16. Look if you believe in gay marraige or not , if your straight and a teammate is gay would you be comfortable talking about sex or walking around naked or any of the normal locker room stuff that straight male athletes do while in the lockerroom knowing that your teammate might be looking at you in a sexual way or listening into your conversation in a way it was not intended. Thats why athletes dont really feel comfortable with gay teammates.

  17. It wouldn’t be accepted any less in the NFL than any other occupation, the difference is Peyton Manning or any superstar doesn’t need to worry about being sent to HR and losing his job if he says something inappropriate

  18. Nothing like that old-time religion! Anyone who isn’t like you is a heathen, or an infidel, or a heretic, so they’re basically not human!

  19. The difference between the typical American workplace and an NFL locker room is simply the connection each player has with each other. They figuratively go to war everyday with their bodies as one and try to portray their hard work as success one day a week. The physical tolls cause an emotion toll, which just like a muscle, comes back stronger than before. You and MDS and Darin and Curtis and Mike and Josh MIGHT be the best of friends like any other workplace in the world, but the bond is different from a sports team. Especially football. And he ignorance of just one of 53, just one judgment or prejudicial comment will thrown off team chemistry and thus success. Teams don’t know how to deal with such a thing, don’t know what will happen and don’t want to take the risk.

    Personally, I think some man will come out and it’ll be a big deal but then sizzle out. It doesn’t matter. The threat and mystery behind what it might be the cause of is why teams are afraid.

  20. I was listening to the interview with Jim Miller and I think he is being quoted way out of context. He said that some people are religious and those people won’t accept a gay teammate. when asked if could, he said he could care less, as long as they can play. He wasn’t justifying it, so much as explaining why it would be tough in a locker room, versus a regular job type atmosphere. I think Miller was BLAMING religion, rather than using it to justify some stance that HE has.

  21. Most workplaces dont require you to shower with people that may be physically attracted to you. Regardless of how you feel about the issue, why is this part of it so hard? The NFL is different for that reason if for no other. I liken it to showering with women for heterosexuals. Am I completely wrong here?

  22. Not that I’m religious or intolerant but to watch you people post sanctimoniously is hilarious. I’m sure if your kid was 12/13 on a travel team and there was a gay coach on his team like you would have him sleepover on trips etc. without a peep. None of you have been in that position so don’t come out here telling us how peaceful and all loving you are. I see half of you critical of how nfl ers who group up in disgrace in inner cities act. That your ok with bashing but a dude says he may think its weird to be in a locker room with a gay dude and you get all nuts. Come back here when your kid is gay or you’ve been on a team with a gay dude. You haven’t you won’t so you can armchair all day right.

  23. As a religious person, I have no problem with gay people. Who are you to judge how a person feels? If you really believe in God accept them for who they are and let him do the judging.

  24. Jim Miller is a coward hiding behind his interpretation of Christianity. I probably shouldn’t bring politics into this but the intolerant attitude is the attitude of most conservative Christians and the majority of those are republicans. These people are living in the past and refuse to accept the new reality which is why they will continue to see their party become more and more irrelevant if they refuse to adapt. I completely agree that sexual orientation is something that one is born with. Who would choose to be demeaned, ridiculed, discriminated against, live in fear because of what they do in the privacy of their bedroom?
    “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
    “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.”
    ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

  25. Way to choose the path of least resistance, Mike Florio! Try standing up for something instead of falling for anything. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I can assure you, Mike Florio, you have biases that you’d wish no one knew about but are too much of a coward to say publicly! Think about it, dude! Whether you want to bash Jim Miller or not what he said is accurate. It might not be politically correct, but it serves as an accurate account of men who work together in close quarters; unlike your business world analogy.

  26. Point missed is there are mamy or most people out there who just dont care what sex practices you have and dont want to hear about it. Of all varieties but thet keep shoving their preferences in everyone’s face.

    Just like I dont need to have your religion shoved in my face!

    And the left was enraged at “dont ask dont tell” No they had to tell everyone what they do 0 we dont care!

  27. Religion is based in the fear of the unknown.

    It is illogical on a good day and stupid all day Sunday.

    Jesus’ mother had an immaculate birth, correct?
    The big boat. The apple tree. The sea parting. Walking on water.

    In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, GOOD GRIEF ….

  28. Why anyone needs a book to tell them how to live or how to treat people is beyond me.

    If you treat people the way you’d want to be treated, most everything takes care of itself. The reality is that every single person on this earth has something about them that they *could* be discriminated against for. Dont judge others unless you want to be judged yourself. Accept people the way they are, because after all, its not hurting you, and move on.

    That should be a basic principle of being a human, not having to be taught through a book.

  29. Jim Miller does not seem to grasp the fact that precepts and reality differ greatly. A 12 year old boy getting raped by an adult male doesn’t care much about the deity of his rapist.

  30. Last I checked its against the law for someone to be forced to accept something against their beliefs. Funny how whack jobs like Florio seem to forget that. Mind you, Miller is not saying anything should be done to keep gays out of the locker room, only that they may not be accepted by their teammates. This leads me to believe Florio would also think that if anyone says that being gay is a sin, they would be guilty of hate speech….which of course would be a violation of their right to religion.

  31. Yeah, let’s all just forget and throw under the rug how the human body was designed to operate…whether designed by a ‘God’ or something actually more realistic, it was designed to procreate and advance the human species…not to accept deviance from freaks.

  32. I am shocked what this country has come to. Christians are not commanded to hate a gay/lesbian. but how can we not call sin, sin? My dear Mr. Florio, who is this Jesus you are talking about? What did Jesus come to save us from? He did not come to “just” preach love thy neighbor as yourself which is the 2nd of the greatest commandments. The first is Love thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind. God is HOLY which means he is “perfect” and does not sin and is not the creator of sin. Did he not create Adam and Eve? How could God be the creator of two men having sexual relations when God himself made them with sexual organs to procreate ONLY between men and women? It’s even simple common sense. God is a God love and forgiveness. And Herein is love, not that we loved God but that God loved us. And sent his son to the the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought to love one another.Therefore, God does love us but to save us “from sin not to sin. We are all just as guilty as anyone who is gay for “all have sinned”. However, for us to call being Gay “from” God or that God is OK with it is to call God a liar. Is God OK with murder, adultery, or lying? Being gay is a sin. God does not condone sexual relations between men. It is our “sin nature” that causes us to “want and desire” sin whether it be lying, murder, adultery, stealing, and even being gay. We all have urges and sin but that does not make it OK with God. What did Jesus die for anyway? So we could all just do what we wanted because we justify it in our own minds. You can’t be saved by Jesus if you don’t think you are a sinner as he called “sinners” to repentance. Consider why this country and world is filled with such selfishness, greed, and killing. It’s because we have gone “away” from God, not because we are less tolerant like God wants us to be. Why are things getting “worse” when all people talk about is God is love but never talk about his judgement. holiness, and commandments?

  33. The NFL is not a church or a religious organization. It is a business, and the workers in any business need to leave their religious beliefs (biases?) at the front door. Full stop.

    Religious beliefs have long been used as an excuse to discriminate, but this has no place in the corporate world of 2013, a world the NFL is certainly a part of.

    The players are employees, and should act as their employers and their union tell them. The problem is that the NFL and its teams are hesitant to speak out on this issue at the very moment when the majority of Americans have decided that gay bias must end.

    As someone else wrote on this site earlier, if the US Armed Forces have accepted their gay colleagues then NFL players should get over themselves and move on.

  34. If religion is truly the justification for not accepting gays in the locker room, then why are the guys who go to strip clubs and hook up with groupies and other sex outside of a marriage welcome? Why are “religious” people quick to condemn and not accept only a certain type of sinner, instead of accepting us all as sinners, all who fall short, all who need grace?

  35. Ha ha, people like Jim Miller would do well to actually read the Old Testament. There are all kinds of great things in there, like when and how to do your animal sacrifices, when to kill people for adultery, instructions not to get tattoos, etc. He should kill an adulterer and plead freedom of religion. There are so many people as stupid as this guy that it’s no wonder everything is going downhill.

  36. Mike, I’m a big fan of yours but I’ve got some issues with this post. None of this meant to justify Miller’s comments, its my personal reaction…

    POINT 1- You say ” If what you’re saying is accurate, then gay coworkers would be rejected in every American workplace. ” That’s true on the surface. However, in what other job do you get naked and shower with every coworker daily? This point is not an excuse to say gays shouldn’t be accepted, but for your argument not to address this point makes it a bit simplistic. If the LGBTQ community is ever going to be accepted in football these kinds of unique issues in pro sports need to be addressed.

  37. Someone got a dog in this fight? Comparing gays in the workplace and gays in football are two completely different things! Last I checked I didnt have to shower and get dressed with my coworkers while on the clock.

  38. Yep, religion has always been used as justification for committing horrible acts against fellow human beings.

    Murder, torture, oppression, discrimination, censorship, etc…all because people follow the teachings in books that some Middle Eastern sheepherders wrote thousands of years ago.

    Personally, I’d rather see these religious nutjobs playing football than holding political office. If they had any actual power like they did back in the Dark Ages, we’d still be living in the Dark Ages.

  39. ” It’s just not realistic for Mike Florio or any progressive or liberal to think that everything is going to be OK in the locker room and we should all just wise up and accept it.”

    Bravo to you Jim Miller, finally someone in the media tells it like it is.

  40. Guess we will all find out one day what we should all be tolerant of and not. If you believe in the bible it is clear, not everything is acceptable. No matter what society or the talking heads think!!!
    For your sake I hope your right mike!
    God was not politically correct

  41. What is today. First you accuse anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe to be full of hate earlier today, and now this?

    Second, you are presupposing God created them that way. Did he create the pedophile to be a pedophile?

    Stick to football, not moral arguments.

  42. Luckily the Jim Miller and Matt Birk types seem to be in the dwindling minority. Hopefully the world my daughters inherit and pass on to their children will be beyond this nonsense.

  43. Holding true to your religious beliefs is NOT intolerance! No one has to agree with every lifestyle out there. In fact, it appears you may be intolerant of the Christian lifestyle. Now who’s wrong?? What people do in private is inappropriate to be brought into the workplace anyway. Those guys are there to play football, do their JOB.

  44. If you want to believe in god and teach your kids about (insert religion) that’s your right. Please just let the rest of us make our own choices, too.

  45. Its the NFL where because of Jesus the kicker made the kick, the player caught the ball, and the defender made the tackle. Practice, hard work, teamwork, and 40,000 fans cheering you on mean nothing…the outcome is decided by one man in the clouds. They are not ready for the 21st century.

  46. Florio if you believe that it was Hard Wired into their DNA why wouldn’t they be the opposite sex then? I agree it is nobody’s job to say you are going to Hell, we need to.Love God and Love our neighbor. He is the one who judges and I think that it is really beyond our understanding to contemplate the why. I just don’t understand why God would make something that was intended for something else.

  47. Jim Miller did not say, as his opinion, that intolerance is justified by religious beliefs, he simply pointed out that many Christians, Muslims, and ‘other religions that are out there’ will feel that it is.

    And he also pointed out the sad truth that teams will be leery of bringing that dynamic into the locker room.

    And comparing the NFL locker room culture to most ‘regular’ jobs doesn’t wash either.

  48. Actually Jim is correct. I noticed he said it didn’t matter to him of what sexual orientation his team mate was.

    He only said people with strong religious beliefs will have a problem. Here is an example of what he means for a Christian.

    Rom. 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
    Rom. 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    So all he was saying is some follow their religion closer than others.

    In the end we we all have to sort things with God. I believe God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

    That is why I can go to him without fear if I have done wrong. But I do realise there are things he considers wrong.

  49. I listen to the NFL Network on XM Radio whenever I can. It is a great break and distraction from my daily issues.

    Jim Miller is a spot fill in on all shifts and all shows. He works his butt off to give a different perspective of the daily life from the locker room to player view on contracts.

    I honestly believe that this is being taken out of context. Jim Miller will go out of his way to explain his reasoning and is very careful not to offend. I personally would not put too much into this, Jim Miller is not one to step so far out of the box with his comments.

  50. We need an owner like Branch Rickey. Rickey put Jackie Robinson on the field. When some teammates wouldn’t accept Robinson because of the color of his skin, Rickey just traded those guys.

    You can take your intolerance and go play somewhere else.

  51. Religion breads intolerance. Not in all but I have never met a racist person who didn’t “claim” to be a christian.

  52. Us atheists and agnostics can tolerate a lot of things and a lot of whackadoos, but what we cannot tolerate is the use of the phrase, “I could care less.”
    Do us all a favor Jim, and please go ahead and do that.

  53. Florio,

    I agree with your sentiment, but every American workplace does not have co-workers gettin’ naked together in the locker room.

    Admit it. Would you hire a young stud who was gay for PFT if you knew you were going to have to share a shower with him every day?

    It would at least be uncomfortable for most straight men.

    And even though the religious argument holds no weight, you have to acknowledge that people will ALWAYS use religion to justify prejudice.

  54. Jesus also said “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”.

    Jesus delivered us from the law, with Grace. Which means simply “undeserved favor”.

    Maybe Mr Glaser should expand his own biblical understanding, before questioning another’s.

  55. It always cracks me up when religion is used an excuse to exclude gays but religion never seems to get in the way of accepting adulterers, those who have 8 kids with 7 different women, strip club customers, porn surfers, johns, and even pedophiles, all of whom cause so much more harm to society than gays. Amazing.

  56. why has profootballtalk become a platform to support gay marriage?
    Real Christians do not hate those who live out this lifestyle. We are not here to judge! But our conviction is that we will come before Christ one day, and will be judged according to His word (the Bible).

  57. NFL players are just stuck in their ways.

    They’d feel more comfortable with a murderer(ray lewis) than a gay in their locker room.

    speaking of twisting words… your little deductive reasoning just took what Jim Miller said about gays being accepted in a locker room and made it about all jobs?

    -Jim Miller says Gays wouldn’t be accepted in an NFL locker room.
    -an Nfl locker room is a workplace
    -Jim Miller says Gays wouldn’t be accepted in any workplace

    logical jumps…

  58. To steeelfann on the intolerant comment. Your right if you believe it to be wrong to be gay that is not intolerant. To say you don’t think someone belongs somewhere because they are gay IS intolerant.

    Love the point about people who believe that being gay is a choice. To all of you out there that believe it is a choice to be gay. Well, then that means at some point in your own lives you decided to be straight. IF you made a choice to be straight I hate to be the one to tell you this, but YOUR GAY!!

  59. Nobody cares what they do in the privacy of the bedroom. It’s the non-privacy of the locker room that’s the issue.

  60. How many evangelical Christian fundamentalists love bacon, pepperoni, or pork ribs? If they’re going to pick and choose Bible verses to take literally as an excuse for being intolerant bigots then they need to stop eating pork:

    Deuteronomy 14:8: And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.

  61. Jim Miller is right!!! Christians shouldn’t have to share a locker room with those who get hair cuts or eat shellfsih either!!!!!
    It’s an abomination I tell ya! Leviticus said so!
    Look, no one has to “approve” of what a co-worker does in his own time, but a locker room is an office like anywhere else. You can’t harass or intimidate someone because of their personal choices, so suck it up and deal with it or if you can’t become self employed or find work in your church. Those are your options.

  62. This has gone beyond ridiculous. The hiding behind religion excuse as a reason to hate gays is ridiculous. “god” is supposedly all-loving, yet he can’t look past the fact that a man can love a man, or a woman can love a woman. Stop living by what a fun story book tells you and live in this day in age. Grow the hell up. Life is what you make it, not what some stupid ass BOOK tells you what to do. Santa Claus and god are sitting somewhere very disappointed right about now hahahaha

  63. I agree with you completely Florio but I do think Miller was just shooting straight (forgive the terrible pun). In no capacity do I think it is right or should even be a factor in any workplace but that does not mean it is not. Thats why don’t ask don’t tell was the standard in most circles until very recently. The NFL just happens to be one of the most male oriented, apparently masculine professions there is.

  64. Pretty scary statement by Jim Miller and Florio’s case is fantastic in every way although he did get a little soft on Miller with the leeway. Granted he did tug back with a second thought on that leeway, but in this situation I think Miller’s POV is just excessively out of bounds with being ridiculous, insulting, and out of touch with reality.

    Great video breakdown of this quote, but I am not convinced that people are born a certain way. I think that might be true for some who have a natural predisposition to being attracted to one sex versus another, but I think some people do have the capacity to change their interests and I don’t think it’s that unusual for somebody to be attracted to one gender at one point in life yet prefer the other at another point. I think these are evolving feelings for some, and some like both genders or other categorical classifications. A person can go through surgery to make themselves have multiple genders and I don’t believe that every human is born automatically set to be attracted to one gender versus another versus an artificially altered gender.

    Tastes and opinions and affinities change and evolve throughout a person’s life, and I haven’t see any convincing evidence to the contrary.

  65. An attorney making a living on trivial gossip that really doesn’t matter thinks he can comment, intelligently, on matters of faith, beliefs and integrity. Another example of the failure of the American ‘educational’ system.

  66. Mike, you’re an idiot if you don’t think there aren’t any denominations that are against gays.. Hell look no farther than the friggin’ boy scouts.

    Other religions just have pro-gay priests

  67. Whoa,slow your roll Florio…God did not make people gay,everyone was born Straight,so don’t give me that ”Gays were born that way” crap!

    And I don’t know what Jesus Christ you know,but I know the Real J.C,he has a very loving side,but he also has a stern side.

    To answer your question Florio,yes Jesus would cast that demon/evil spirit of perverse sexuality out!!!

  68. Mike, I posted my first problem earlier, my second problem with this is as a conservative protestant (Southern Baptist) seminary graduate your comments on the relationship of the Old Testament and New Testament are wrong and unconvincing. The types of folks who believe the bible is true will reject your argument because it shows a lack of understanding about how the bible (and its testaments) relate. You may not agree with the beliefs of conservative Christians but its important to at least understand them, and know the good arguments from the bad ones. The Washington Post’s editorials by their Ombudsman in the last weeks make this point crystal clear. The best article you can read on this is “Old Testament Law and the Charge of Inconsistency” by Tim Keller and can be found here http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_events/newsletter/?aid=363

  69. “It’s just not realistic for Mike Florio or any progressive or liberal to think that everything is going to be OK in the locker room and we should all just wise up and accept it.”

    Like it or not, he’s right.

  70. For those of you who have never studied the Bible, what Jesus not only would teach, but practice, was to love the sinner, but hate the sin of that person. And yes, if there was ever one person on this earth who had the authority to judge a person it was Him. Jesus not only did not place final judgement on these people, which would condemn them to hell, but the thieves, prostitutes and others who were rejected by society were the people he stayed close to and ministered to. First,he wanted their hearts to be right for Him. He did not associate with the holy men of that time because he believed they were already good, he stayed away from them because he had total disdain for them, believing them to be hypocrites.

  71. You what I find funny. I’ve never seen religion used as reasoning and/or defense for why someone is smart..only ever used for reasoning behind hatred/bigotry/ignorance.

    Hmmm, makes you wonder huh?

  72. Lot of people talking about locker room chemistry probably haven’t actually been in a locker room.

    Played college football with a gay guy and while he wasn’t officially “out” it was pretty widely known / suspected. Guess what, no one cared. We were more concerned if he could play.

    And regarding the Bible quoters I hope none of you : eat shellfish, pork, wear cotton blends or cut your beard. After all you can’t pick and choose right?

  73. I posted this and I think it was removed. Here it is again for you Mike Florio.

    This is New Testament. God loves the sinner but he does hate sin.

    Rom. 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
    Rom. 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

  74. I’ve worked with gay dudes. I felt comfortable around most, but I’ve also been in situations where a couple have been very flirtatious and made me feel pretty uncomfortable. Maybe I’m a bad person, but I would feel pretty uncomfortable sharing a locker room with someone who most likely has a sexual attraction for at least a few members of the team. Gay guys aren’t just attracted to gay guys just like I could still find a lesbian woman attractive. And since we don’t choose who we’re attracted to…

  75. It absolutely is a choice, and its constantly reinforced by a society that has its priorities all out of wack.

    What would Jesus do? He would say “I do not condemn you” because that was not his role here on earth. He would also say “Go and sin no more” (thats the part everyone leaves out).

    To try to remove the religious objection to it is to attempt to tell religious people what they should believe – to decide for them what parts of scripture are relevant or even to interpret it for them.

    This is where I am on this: I have no problems with someone who is attracted to the same sex. Their choice is between them and God, whether they acknowledge Him or not. I try to remain as neutral as I can in discussions about this, because there are bigger issues, but when people are being tarred and feathered because of their values, or when politicians try to bully private companies into submission, I am compelled to get involved.

  76. Miller’s “religious” position is the same one used throughout the ages to justify hating on others. All religions do this to try to convince their followers that they are superior to others. That is why religion is failing. As individuals become more enlightened, they see the truth behind religion & are fleeing it in droves. I think I’ll start my own religion & use it to justify treating others like dirt.

  77. Amazing that so many people think attraction is limited by nakedness. Gay guys are just as attracted to other men by the same characteristics as straight guys are to women…..they don’t have to see you naked to be attracted to you.

  78. Sometimes stupid doesn’t need to be addressed. Freedom of religion is not a pass for a right to discriminate in the workplace or ignore the law. Everyone has a right to work….its the LAW. Get over it and move on. Just like freedom of speech doesn’t allow you to shout fire in a movie theater. It does allow you to prove that you are a stupid dinosaur and I like Mr. Miller’s work for the most part. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

  79. To sin is mans choice. No sin is greater than the another. Can’t blame God for out choices. We’ re all sinners, must just be easier for some to pick on gays. Frankly, without Christ, there’s no hope for the best of us. Sure this comment won’t make it past the hour.

  80. jaginmi just nailed it. If I wanted a sermon I’d go to church. I come here for football news not to be force fed someone’s political position. Whether it be about gays in football or how Washington needs to change their name. Just stick to football.

  81. Good for you Chris, you can’t be forced to think a certain way, they should be tolerant of your opinion

  82. Do people realize that it is PROVEN that being gay is not a choice? There is no need for the word ‘believe’ to come out. Get a grip religious people.

  83. It’s funny how naive some folks are to the bible. It’s also quite humorous that people from all sides of any said debate turn the scriptures around to fit their argument. The most high God is not concerned with your trivial doings. its all about your mindset and heart. People love to think that religion is about oppression, and it isn’t. It’s the complete opposite. Study. Learn the times. Realize how politically incorrect it was. But until then, you all will keep having these meaningless debates. There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. And until people stop trying to skew scripture so it doesn’t convict themselves, but others…. It’s going to be the same issues. And just because something is popular doesn’t mean it is true.

  84. Dude Florio, talk about FOOTBALL! Who is paying you to lobby for gays? Are you gay? Do you like girls? Talk about football dude! Some people don’t disagree with people you disagree with. Two dudes kissing makes my stomach turn. Nothing you say will change that. Talk about football.

  85. The world will be so better off once people realize once and for all that all religions are a human invention. The existence of a supreme being is unknown. The physical laws of nature explain everything very well, if you take the time to educate yourself.

  86. I miss the days when football was a man’s game. Where players went to war and were ready to throw fists after the game instead of hugging the other team. They may as well play today’s game in skirts because
    players today couldn’t go 3 rounds with the players who built this league.

  87. Since when does believing someone is commiting a sinful act mean you’re “intolerant”. I was born and raised catholic…my brother is openly gay…I love him more than any person in this world…doesn’t mean I think his choice is right. People need to understand that religion is not an excuse for hate…religion is loving a fellow human being.

  88. weak article. next one going to be anout mjd defending bullying in classrooms or online. leave this stuff to the ny times/washpost

  89. “Look, no one has to “approve” of what a co-worker does in his own time, but a locker room is an office like anywhere else. ”

    Except for the whole ‘showering naked together’ thing.

  90. What a weak attempt to spin Miller’s words. HA! All he is saying is that you can expect some people in the locker room to have an issue with it due to religious beliefs. That is a true statement. It wouldn’t bother me personally, just like Jim said it wouldn’t bother him. But you cannot make someone comfortable with it by the use of words. If that is their belief, that is their belief. I think it is sad that people in the locker room would have a problem with it, for sure. But Jim’s statement is correct, and this article is such a weak attempt to spin his words.

  91. This is getting to be less and less about football, and more and more about what ONE writer views as a human rights issue. The site is profootballtalk, not gayfootballtalk or progayfootballtalk. Can we PLEASE stick to talking about PRO FOOTBALL???

  92. i completely agree with Florio on this. Anyone who thinks gay ppl choose their orientation is an imbecile. This is 2013 and times are changing and most people would accept a gay man or woman in this day age. All that matters is if the player can get the job DONE! Sexuality should not be a factor but unfortunately it will take a strong individual to come out while playing in the NFL

  93. Woodstakes
    Did you choose not to be sexually attracted to your sister? What if you felt that way, would you be living a lie if you didn’t marry her?
    Granadafan– don’t just puppet bad arguments. Jesus came to fulfil the law. I won’t bore everyone here, but read the two page article by Tim Keller on the law to see your argument is based on false assumptions. It is one of the worst arguments being made today but people keep repeating it.

  94. Your approach in this article is completely wrong.

    Miller is allowed to have his beliefs whether they are based on religion or not. The problem with many gay activists like Florio, is that they aren’t just satisfied with tolerance of gays, they demand approval which many just aren’t comfortable with doing for a variety of reasons.

    Don’t you think the NFL already has some gays that are basically in the closet? I imagine most players in the NFL don’t care what someone’s orientation is and are accepting of teammates regardless. But they don’t want it rubbed in their faces with some media wennie like Florio demanding they approve of it and questioning the bible and their religion.

    I’m not sure if orientation is chosen or not but I am sure that acting on any tendencies is a choice.

  95. apparently i am not allowed to comment on this article. i have tried twice and neither comment has shown up

  96. I want my football back. This website seems like is now being used to push an agenda. I don’t want to be told how I should feel about homisexuality by a lawyer, I just wanna talk about football.FYI, I played college and arena football, no one wants to shower with someone who is attracted to the same sex. That doesn’t mean that I’m saying all gay guys are attracted to athletes but, it is not with them at athletes comfort zone to shower with someone who possibly may be attracted to him. It’s almost like a heterosexual man showering with a group of ugly females. even if the guy isn’t attracted to them, I’m sure the females still wouldn’t feel comfortable

  97. Gays already are accepted in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers has been a starting QB for years and no one has kicked him out for being gay.

    Seriously? I can see either the Biqueen fans or the inbred Favre lovers must be out of school today. FYI..Aaron Rodgers has bagged more hot chicks than you have in your state..but keep keep thinking that while you have your hand to kee Keep keep you warm Oh And by the way grandma needs her feet rubbed.

  98. You bigoted incestphobes can’t silence me any longer. My hot older sister and I deserve the same rights that you do. It wasn’t our choice. ACCEPT US.

  99. bigdaddy44 says: Feb 28, 2013 5:19 AM

    “He [Jesus] did not associate with the holy men of that time because he believed they were already good, he stayed away from them because he had total disdain for them, believing them to be hypocrites.”

    Looking at a lot of the comments here and the pseudo-evangelicals running and attending mega-churches in this country, looks like Jesus is still right all these millennia later!

  100. It’s 2013. When are you people going to finally realize it? My sister looks beautiful this morning.

  101. The problem with this kind of talk is that it assumes that there are so many people out there who are intolerant of gays and will stop at nothing to impede their success.

    It is simply not true. If it is then where are all the stories of gays being blackballed by employers or where are the mass amounts of discrimination in the workplace?

    Surely if it was as big a problem as the morally righteous suggest it is then the mainstream media would have no problem reporting it on a mass level since a divided nation is seemingly desired by the media.

    Just like the morally superior claim that gays are stereotyped and such you must make the same argument for religious folk, namely Catholics. Not all are anti-gay as tough as that is to swallow and even the ones who claim to be anti-gay aren’t out there impeding anyone’s chances at success.

    This is a big time media fabrication that is designed to get the general public talking about a non-issue.

  102. Good morning! I’d like to order some Pro Football Talk. Please HOLD the liberal social commentary. Thanks, dude!!

  103. “Tolerance” as a word has turned into what “racism” has. Completely hijacked to the extent it has changed meaning so we now have people saying “reverse racism” when it applies to a minority’s prejudiced thoughts on white people when it’s is simply still just racism.

    Tolerance has been co opted to mean” You must not only accept but also embrace what I am even if it’s against what you believe” .No, TOLERANCE is simply not agreeing with something yet letting the person have their beliefs and respecting their right to do that. From what I’ve seen it seldom applies to the people the “tolerance police” are condemning.

    I say this as someone who is pro gays being able to marry, and be able to have regular families with children, adopted or not and as someone who is also an atheist.

  104. CKL says:
    Feb 28, 2013 11:02 AM

    I say this as someone who is pro gays being able to marry, and be able to have regular families with children, adopted or not and as someone who is also an atheist.


    Can’t agree with you on this. As a man, I cannot replace my wife as a mother, nor could she replace me as a father. Can you imagine your father being replaced by a woman, or your mother by a man?

    Men and women are different for a reason. They have different mindsets, different takes on the world, and complementary roles they bring to raising children.

    No child should be deliberately deprived of a mother or a father. To do so is to use them as pawns in someone’s diluted version of a civil rights battle. Children deserve better than that.

  105. God-Jesus=LOVE FOR ALL

    1. I’m a Chrisitian who believes that God is my Savior and that Jesus Christ his son that he sent to die for our sins

    2. If Gays are allowed in the Military where they Eat, Sleep, Shower, Go to real Wars and Fight & Die together, then I’m sure the NFL and it’s players can figure it out!

    3. Why in this day and age are Players showering together anyway, can’t these teams afford private shower stalls?

    4. If its true that 1 out of every 6 men are gay, then the NFL already has 8 gay players on every team… Just Saying

  106. I agree with both sides. Easy to be tolerant of different sexual orientations in the workplace, but not when you shower together. I can never envision myself being allowed to shower in a female locker room and the women being ok with it. How is that different? And should my expectation be that the women are ok with it? And does everybody else who wants to allow that situation to exist in the NFL think its okay?

  107. Not religious by a long shot but i thought you are not supposed to judge others and i also thought you should treat others as you would want to be treated. Honestly like the idea of religion but there is just too much hipocracy for me to completely buy in.

  108. So “Hate” and “Intolerance” = any belief you don’t personally agree with?

    People of the religious persuasion are “judged” just as much in the public eye by people like Florio for what they believe.

  109. Couldn’t agree more with Florio here: “The problem with most religions is that the relevant scriptures have enough passages that can be isolated and spun to justify pretty much any position someone wants to adopt.” Exactly. Like trying to pretend the new testament isn’t full of threats, bigotry, and misogyny as the author of this column is doing. You can cherry pick the “love your neighbor” and “do unto others” and deny all the “And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.” (1 rom 26-27) and “I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.” (1 tim 2:12), the condoning of slavery, diseases caused by demons, etc. Why do you think there are over 40,000 denominations / brands of Christianity? As Sam Harris so simply put, “If we take Jesus in half his moods, we can easily justify the actions of Francis of Assisi or Martin Luther King, Jr. Taking the other half, we can justify the Inquisition.”
    Can we get back to football, ProFootballTalk.com?

  110. Amazing. Here we are in the 21st century, and people still believe the laws and social standards of a bunch of Bronze Age tribesmen are somehow relevant in our modern, multicultural society. Worse yet, they believe that Bronze Age mythology trumps science and our modern understanding of the world and human nature. Absolutely pathetic, IMHO.

  111. Speaking from a Christian perspective, I take issue with Jim Miller’s comments, as it paints Christians in a negative light and as Florio points out…it is not the true message of Christ. The whole message of jesus was to accept the sinners. He spent his entire ministry with sinners, of all kinds. Yes the Bible states that being gay is sin, but it also says lots of other things are sin, like adultery, murder etc. Bottom line, we are not the ultimate judge…and flat out saying you won’t accept someone because of their lifestyle contradicts the entire message of Jesus.

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