We’re officially out of the Wonderlic business

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I never understood why advertisers cared about the 18-35 demographic until I turned 36, and all of a sudden stuff that I cared about for years no longer seemed all that important.

After more than a decade in this business, things that once seemed important to me now are trivial.  At one point, the Wonderlic scores generated by incoming players seemed to be critical pieces of information.  I’ve now come to the conclusion that they don’t matter, and that I no longer care.

So we’re permanently out of the Wonderlic business.  Moving forward, we won’t try to discover Wonderlic scores.  We won’t mention Wonderlic scores reported by others.  And we won’t poke fun at someone who generated a low score.

The outcome of a 50-question test that the NFL keeps using primarily because it provides an apples-to-apples comparison from one year to the next has no relevance to football abilities.  Players routinely don’t give their best effort when taking the test.  Many give no effort.  Many don’t even know that the test will be taken.

Some have learning disabilities.  Some with learning disabilities have agents who don’t know or care to request an accommodation.

As mentioned by Barry Petchesky of Deadspin, Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has disclosed this year’s Wonderlic scores for some of the receivers with the kind of snarky opening sentence that would prompt widespread derision if it came for someone less experienced or revered or decorated.  McGinn, however, will continue to avoid widespread criticism — in part because he has at least one attack-dog friend in the media who admittedly has launched a “preemptive strike” to shout down potential critics.

If you want to see the scores that McGinn has posted, that’s your prerogative.  And if you want to think those scores matter, feel free.  If you want to get a laugh about it, don’t feel guilty; I’ve done it, too.

But I’ve now come to learn via a protracted exercise of trial and error (emphasis on “error”), that it just doesn’t matter.  And it’s no longer important.  And I’m done caring about the outcome of an outdated test — especially since there’s a new computer-based test that is supposed to measure a “wide range of competencies” but that McGinn didn’t even mention.

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110 responses to “We’re officially out of the Wonderlic business

  1. But…. what happens if the Wonerlic scores reporting wins the PFT topic poll? I want to see some scores so I can see just how many of these players coasted through college just because they could play a game well. Student athlete, my ass!

  2. “I’ve now come to the conclusion that they don’t matter, and that I no longer care,”

    except to give a link to where the scores are reported so people can see them. No point in not being able to make fun of others, even though giving credibility to the scores is beneath us.

  3. Commendable. Their’s no way that a racial aspect cannot be included in the reporting.. in the receiving of the information. We also cannot ignore that teams have released/leaked these scores to tank prospective athletes earning potential. The long lasting effects on the athletes earning potential outside of the football field is also an issue. We’ve never had additional information on learning disabilities.. testing abilities.. etc. How many of the athletes were under IEP’s during their school careers?
    Again I think your stance is commendable Mr Florio..

  4. You don’t think that extreme outliers on the Wonderlic are noteworthy enough to justify a 30 second blog post?

    I’m willing to bet that there would be a post pretty quickly if a QB gets a score of 1 or 0.

    I guess the point is, never say never?

  5. First of all, keep your petty personal beef out of the posts, if you please.

    Second, the Wonderlic does matter for QBs. And I would argue that ridiculously low scores are somewhat of a red flag. Is it the end-all be-all? No. But it i

  6. I don’t think anyone will be surprised that NBC news has decided to show their bias by not reporting on things that don’t fit their politics. (See Kermit Gosnell). The only thing surprising is this unexpected display of honesty and for that I am thankful.

  7. I used to want the Dolphins to pick Tavon Austin, but now that I know he’ll never go on to become Team Physician I hope they go CB.

  8. Sounds like you finally took the test yourself, PFT. Coverups don’t last as a rule. One of your disgruntled employees gonna leak that score, and it will follow you for life.

  9. So because you don’t care about the Wonderlic scores anymore you’re ruining it for all of us? Makes sense.

  10. A NFL website about information is now going to limit that information because the editor doesn’t think its relevant or fair. So I assume you will stop posting drug test results and 40 time because that could affect someone negatively.

    When is your next post on how awful the Redskins name is or promoting some other lefty cause?

  11. whatever happened to the SAT’s..

    are you telling me the football god’s that created the wonderlic test have a better test compiled than that of our national school boards (probably).

    Just make these kids take the SAT’s yet again.
    That way you know if you’re coaching a stone or a sponge.

    Vince Young could be listed as a reason why the Wonderlic test, or any test, is 100% necessary.
    If they can’t read the playbook, how can you expect them to learn it.

  12. Very petty article “I did not break the news about the wonderlic scores… so it does not matter to me wha wha wha wha”

  13. I dont think the 3 articles a year of extreme outliers (like someone getting a 4 or a 45) is too much. I like to see them…

  14. The Wonderlic test only seemed to make sense for the true skill (thinking) positions (QB, Offensive/Defensive line). Didn’t seem to matter with the glamor/diva positions (RBs, DBs, WRs, etc).

    Wonder how many Hall of Famers cared about the test. Let someone else dwell on non-nonsensical test scores. Wise decision!

  15. I support this.

    the test should be a one-question multiple choice question that says “are you smart enough to take a test?” and leave it at that anyways.

  16. stillers1229 says:
    Apr 18, 2013 3:48 PM
    You shouldn’t be poking fun at anyone anyway. You’re supposed to be a professional.

    2 4 i Rate This

    Report comment
    ———————————————-

    If it was a professionally reported website, then he wouldn’t cherry pick the news and add his commentary. He would report the scores he sees in the news because it has some degree of “newsworthyness” so to speak. Most of this website is opinion and baseless conclusions anyway, so why not report a solid number now and then to boost some reporting credibility.

  17. You mean we shouldn’t poke fun at overpaid millionaire babies who were just past along because they were good football players, who now score poorly on a test?

    Maybe they should pick another profession if they can’t stand the heat. McDonald’s or Walmart might hire them. They won’t have to take the Wonderlic test for employment at those places.

    As for those who think the Wonderlic doesn’t matter just ask the Titans. If they had paid attention to the Wonderlic maybe they would have avoided that mess.

  18. If you really want this article to carry wait, why dont you find scores on a couple athletes who have had time to blossom within themselves and show their true colors. Lets say Peyton Manning and Pac Man Jones…..

    Now if they both scored similar scores I would agree with this article……

  19. Who else read that the receivers’ scores were leaked and immediately thought “Cordarelle Patterson scored a 10?”

  20. How can a player NOT know that the Wonderlic test would be administered?

    Its been done since the 1970s.

    I can understand not knowing if you were the 1st class they surprised it on you. Or being under prepared for it.

    Simply not knowing that you’re going to be taking the test, to me that speaks volumes about how much preparation and dedication you have to the job. Especially the guy who claims he been wanting it all his life.

  21. Why stop there? You might as well stop posting bench press reps if you think the Wonderlic has no bearing on a player’s aptitude to play this increasingly complex game.

    Mario Manningham could be 10x the WR he is if he were smarter. He never could learn the playbook and it took him til his last year in blue to finally get on the same page as Eli. You think his Wonderlic is irrelevant?

    Shame on you PFT.

  22. The wonderlic, just like the combine, the east-west game and the senior bowl are simply tools used in determining where to put a guy in the draft order…It is not the end-all in determining a guys worth as a player… What ultimately determines a guys worth is all of that, plus the medicals and the tape on the kid… With the tape being closer to the end-all than anything else…

    I don’t know what the hub-bub is all about regarding the Wonderlic….

  23. The Wonderlic test asks questions like: What is the ninth month of the year? How many feet of rope can you buy with $.60 if a foot costs a dime? Which number is smallest? (7, .8, 31, .33, 2) I will miss knowing the true geniuses of the NFL. It is a useless test though: Blaine Gabbert scored higher than Aaron Rodgers.

  24. Though we have roundly criticized players for years about their scores, pft will now play the part of the bigger man by calling out a fellow journalist on a practice we literally only stopped doing.

  25. If you’re in a job interview for a potentially multi-million dollar job, and your employer asks you to take a test, are you going to blow it off? If you do, I believe you have some issues, and that attitude will probably show up somewhere else.

    It’s a timed 12 minute test. I don’t want a guy on my team who can’t focus for 12 minutes.

  26. Sports smarts and IQ smarts are different things. I played high school sports and the smartest on court/field players in no way correlated to the best students, or as it turns out professionals.

    In my high school sports days there was one guy who just always seemed two steps ahead of everybody in every game we played. He never graduated high school and was seemingly slow when talked to him but on the playing field he was a friggin genius.

  27. PFT reports every other little piece of any NFL related minutia including Goodell’s shoe size, Peyton Manning’s favorite color, and Gronk’s favorite techno song, but you won’t report this? You’ve really turned over a new leaf. Silly. Just post the scores. We love seeing how guys can’t spell their name but will be making millions playing football.

  28. You can make this decision as a corporate backed website, but other sites need page views to say alive and probably will get them from the scores.

    As with most things time will tell whether McGinn was correct in his assessment. For what it’s worth, I’ve always felt McGinn was brutally honest. Hard to say whether this was mean spirited or not.

    What I do know is I’m going to miss your yearly meltdown and spat with other media members.

  29. Tavon Austin (WVU) scores a 7, of course he’s not going to talk about it. For the record I think it’s outdated for football.

  30. We are told everything about players: Height, weight, speed, vertical leap, bench press reps, and measurements of various body parts. Because they’re been monitored while in college we know if they have criminal records or drug histories. We probably know their college grades and attendance records. We even know if they are married or have children, and the status of their parents and siblings.

    But please don’t tell us their score on a standardized test. That would be invasive.

  31. It’s well known that most professional athletes are too dumb to go to college, and most of them would never make it if they had to depend on their intelligence alone. We don’t need the Wonderlic test to tell us that.

  32. Tavon Austin scored 7, while Cordarrelle Patterson scored an 11. I guess we’ll have to keep each other posted.

  33. Correct me if I am wrong here, but isn’t it your job to report news and rumors about things related to the NFL? You can’t pick and choose what you think is news. Yards allowed by a defense doesn’t really matter but the NFL still tracks it.

    If the NFL still uses the wonderlic as a measurement for prospects, then it’s your duty to keep that part in the business. You can’t just discount it because you don’t think it matters. Why not start ignoring individual touchdowns since it’s a team sport?

    This is slowly turning into a dictatorship and not a news outlet.

  34. You forgot to add ” but let me take one more shot at the Cowboys with that Claiborne vid because he scored low hardy hardy harf.”

    Because you are a ” professional”

    BTW, Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48. Because he’s an awesome QB.

  35. People who say test scores don’t matter are usually people who don’t do well on tests.

    Seriously though, I can understand an argument as to the weight the Wonderlic should be given, but to say it is completely meaningless is offbase.

    There are plenty of issues on the field and off that are affected by intelligence and therefor shoudl rightfully factor in to a team’s decision. For example, maybe if a guy like Pac Man Jones was a little birghter, he would have avoided his off field issues. Aquib Talib, Chris Henry, Josh Brent, etc….

    You may not be able to predict on field performance through wonderlic scores, but you can certainly use them to predict work ethic, off field behavior, etc.

    Looking at the Wonderlic scores of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Vince Young, you could probably discern who would be more likely to take part in mid-season shirtless all male tequila parties right?

  36. That’s too bad. I like to know which athletes are merely dumb, and which ones are total morons.

  37. I’d have found this blog post genuine if it wasn’t for the fact that you had linked an article with the scores to this test. Seems a bit hypocritical in my mind, if not simply self-aggrandizing, but then again I only scored a 8 on the Wonderlic.

  38. What exactly does a random question test not about football have anything to do with football?

    AJ Green scored a 10.
    Troy Williamson scored a 21.

    It’s completely irrelevant to NFL success

  39. Well this might just do it — the comments section finally might be killed. Once again the readers of this website disagree with the PC agenda that is being pushed upon them and like we all know, tolerance is a one way street. You must tolerate the behaviour of others, but if your opinion doesn’t match the agenda it will not be tolerated.

  40. And we won’t poke fun at someone who generated a low score.

    YIKES!!!! There’s goes 95% of my posts.

  41. Just so you keep posting the press releases from their teams/agents, that’s all we really need to know…

  42. I don’t care about stuff like agents talking to players early, or whether or not a team had too much contact in practice than is allowed.

    But you post that stuff 25 times per day

  43. “What exactly does a random question test not about football have anything to do with football?

    AJ Green scored a 10.
    Troy Williamson scored a 21.

    It’s completely irrelevant to NFL success”

    I would bet my house that there is a significant correlation between Wonderlic Score and arrest rate in the NFL.

  44. I read McGinn’s article and he makes no sense to me whatsoever. He draws a correlation of a Wonderlic score to the fact that Sterling Sharpe dropped 8 passes in his rookie year. ….WHAT !!??!? Most people think that if Sharpe played longer he would have been Hall Of Fame worthy.
    Jerry Rice dropped a few passes in his rookie season also. Interestingly enough, he doesn’t mention Rice’s score. I think this guy McGinn is the one who should be getting out of the Wonderlic business.

  45. Yeah right. And if somebody scores a 5 and it gets out you won’t cover it or say a word. Right. I’ll believe it when I don’t see it here.

    The test was certainly right about Vince Young being slightly more intelligent than a piece of wood.

  46. chitownjeff says:
    Apr 18, 2013 3:47 PM
    Commendable. Their’s no way that a racial aspect cannot be included in the reporting.. in the receiving of the information…
    Again I think your stance is commendable Mr Florio..
    __________
    No. As a black man, I am thoroughly offended by these types of comments. I would guess that Jeff is also black, which at least removes the patronizing pretentiousness usually reflected n these remarks; however, I find the idea that we (blacks) are not allowed to be stupid incredibly insulting.

    Black people and white people are both, first and foremost, people. There are stupid black men and there are stupid white men. If you look at a man’s skin and say that man is black, therefore he must not be intelligent, that’s racism. However, if a black man scores a 6 on the wonderlic, and you say he is not intelligent, that’s not racism, it’s fact.

    Even if, and I believe this is what Jeff was driving at, we test 300 NFL prospects and the black prospects score lower on average than the white prospects; it is not a statement on race, it’s not a statement on standardized testing or “the system”. All it says is that these black kids are not as intelligent as those white kids

    The idea that blacks need some kind of special treatment: that black men are not “allowed” to be stupid or ignorant; is just as insulting and prejudiced as assuming a man is stupid simply because he is black.

  47. I took this test, it is nothing more than 5th grade math and logic, all this test proved is how athletes get a pass if they can put points on the board.

  48. As much as I get some sick little enjoyment out of knowing so-and-so is a moron, I also like knowing the occasional guy, who gets a 50/50. I am impressed by the great minds too.

  49. There’s people with degrees in neuroscience that would have a hard time digesting the WR routes in a typical voluminous NFL playbook.

    Tavon Austin is already coming into this league with a significant handicap in size. Are you telling me that him scoring a 7 on an intelligence test is irrelevant??

    Quit being so P.C. !!

  50. I don’t care about the scores, either. But there’s really no excuse. Quite simply, these players and others aren’t in school. They spend all their time in their multi million dollar training facilities or in their subsidized apartment complexes and athletic dorms away from the regular student body.

    Look at Patterson. He came from junior college and stayed there no more than 5 months. Hunter stayed at least three years in Knoxville. You would have expected something would have rubbed off on him, other than proper shower technique.

    Austin? I could be snide and say he went to West Virginia where they put out PSA’s about not burning mattresses when ESPN brings GameDay to campus, but I won’t.

    It’s a sad commentary about college athletics and the shameful job schools,conferences, coaches and the NCAA do in upholding the notion that young men and women are there to go to school.

  51. Seems to be the trend of this site. Wouldn’t want to provoke any classless arguments. The scores are easy to poke fun at…the most pathetic part of this process is that we send these boys into the world many times without a leg to stand on …simply because they are fast and can catch a ball. When they screw up…which eventually happens….or make horrible decisions with their money no one taught them how to take care of ….we read those stories and poke fun once more.

  52. So florio is saying that even though these scores are still used and affect life in the nfl he won’t discuss them because he thinks they’re dumb. What if he decides he doesn’t like the combine?

  53. Why the big hubbub and trashing of the Wonderlic? All other things being equal-speed, hands, etc being equal-one guy scores a 35 and one scores a 6. Which one would you have greater faith in? Personally, I would want to know that a guy who I am preparing to invest millions in knows the months of the year.

  54. Wow, lots of small, petty men on the comment boards today. Lighten up, boys. We all know that you woulda won state if coach had put you in for the fourth quarter.

  55. The correlation that should be made..and advertised is that between the wonderlic and existing or future length of a player’s police record. Practice and repetition can make even the poorest of test scorers good football players. But it’s a player’s intellect that may be a good indicator about whether or not they’ll know how to react when confronted with potential trouble; either on or off the field.

  56. Its official idiots, they don’t care about the wonderlic test. How many fans can be in my stadium to make me some money, can I get to the SB? End of story…Wonderlic=nothing b/c the athletes already knows that it does not mean anything.

  57. And the bitter, petty chorus erupts: “But we need some low scores to make us feel superior to the players!”

  58. The elephant in the room is the idea that the Wonderlic test is racist, not ineffective or irrelevant.
    I understand that Peyton Manning’s 18 score doesn’t mean he’s less football smart that Blaine Gabbert (42), but let’s not pretend that VY’s 6 wasn’t a big red flag.
    If the Wonderlic test is racist, than so are the SATs. But if you’re going to point out that black players do worse due to a cultural bias on a flawed test, you should also note that the hip-hop culture that dominates the black community belittles education, book smarts, and accuses well-spoken and accomplished blacks of being Oreos and Uncle Toms.

  59. As you get a little bit older you’ll also find things like NFL blog sites really aren’t all that important either…good for about 2 minutes of diversion now and then

  60. forreels says:
    Apr 18, 2013 4:00 PM
    If you really want this article to carry wait, why dont you find scores on a couple athletes who have had time to blossom within themselves and show their true colors. Lets say Peyton Manning and Pac Man Jones…..

    Now if they both scored similar scores I would agree with this article……
    ________________________________
    I don’t know what Pac Man’s was but PM’s Wonderlic was unimpressive for a QB. He didn’t even make the 30s.

    I think that calling McGinn snarky is funny though because authors here are often guilty of snarkiness. It’s best not to be snarky if one wants to call out others for it.

    And in defense of McGinn, he does quote some NFL person as saying Austin’s low Wonderlic won’t be a problem because he cares and wants to learn. I think that’s the correlation, especially with PM’s score being so low for a QB. If a guy’s score is low but he wants to make the effort and he finds coaches willing to teach the way he finds it best to learn, it can be overcome.

  61. I agree that the intelligence measured in the Wonderlic is not directly related to the game of football. It is very similar to how the skills needed for the game of football are not measured in the combine but all media outlets over-sensationalize this. Countless studies have proven the lack of correlation between performance testing and performance but still that is covered, so you might as well cover the Wonderlic.

  62. It is moderately amusing that many of the posters on this site seem to have no awareness of proper capitalization, sentence structure, spelling, or punctuation, and yet feel compelled to comment on matters of intelligence.

  63. Just so we’re clear… you are no longer posting Wonderlic scores, which some people find interesting, but you continue to post stories about some guy named Tim Tebow, which nobody who visits this website finds interesting?

    Hm…

  64. When you think about it, the scores say less about the player than it does about the institute of “higher learning” he came from.

    It’s ridiculous to believe that a guy who scores a 7 ever was a legitimate college student.

  65. @justinsgonnatuck……one of the best comments I’ve read on PFT in a lonnnnnnnng time! Thank you.

  66. lurkerkerker says:Apr 18, 2013 5:12 PM

    The elephant in the room is the idea that the Wonderlic test is racist, not ineffective or irrelevant.
    I understand that Peyton Manning’s 18 score doesn’t mean he’s less football smart that Blaine Gabbert (42), but let’s not pretend that VY’s 6 wasn’t a big red flag.
    If the Wonderlic test is racist, than so are the SATs. But if you’re going to point out that black players do worse due to a cultural bias on a flawed test, you should also note that the hip-hop culture that dominates the black community belittles education, book smarts, and accuses well-spoken and accomplished blacks of being Oreos and Uncle Toms.
    ——————-
    Come on, be honest. That wasnt the “elephant in the room.” It was just your incredibly transparent effort to steer the conversation in a racist direction.

    Yes, I’m saying that you dont have any black friends or acquaintances and that your only “interaction” with black men is through sports.

    You don’t feel comfortable in the presence of black people, but rather than acknowledging *that*, you look for some way to validate your peculiar need to put down the black community as a whole.

    And yeah, I know this will either be deleted, or it will receive a chorus of ‘thumbs down’ from a host of racist morons. Have at it.

  67. funny to me that florio will no longer report on something that is a matter of fact, proven information, yet he writes multiple articles per week based solely on the speculation of when(or even IF) an athlete(s) will come out of the closet. you know, because the latter is so important to the game of football

  68. So how long before our Zen Master Florio decides he doen’t like the new test? I take vacation for the draft each year, I take in as much info as I can get. Does the Wonderlic make an All-Pro, no(Blain Gabbert). Has the combine produced colossal flops, yes(Mike Mamula). Point is, NO ONE KNOWS.

  69. your best post in a long time mike! some ppl just wana poke fun at others so there own lives don’t seem so pathetic.also so many ppl are so jealous of these athlete’s they drool when they read sumthin negative about them.

  70. Since plenty of players score high and bomb out of the NFL in 2 years and plenty of players score less than their shoe size and make the Pro Bowl, the Wonderlic is not an accurate predictor of on-field success. But as a few have pointed out already, I doubt anybody scoring a 7 on the test was completing a full course load at any college or university. It is just further evidence of the corrupt nature of major college sports. Perhaps the Wonderlic stories should just be posted on CFT instead of ignoring them all together.

  71. and while your at it stop worrying about the Redskins name, gay rights or other non-football topics… Thanks

  72. @11inthebox
    How lucky those poor, downtrodden people are to have you here to defend them by bravely calling everyone around you a racist. How long have you had the ability to see into people’s hearts?

  73. No you’re not. I GUARANTEE that the first lame score of a young hot shot rookie you hear of, we’ll see something about it right here. Heck, you even had to write a story about the Wonderlic to tell us you’re not writing stories about the Wonderlick anymore.

  74. It is certainly your prerogative to ignore the scores for whatever reasons you select. Personally, I do not care what a potential draftee’s Wonderlic is, as it has absolutely no influence over my life.. The issue I do not understand is you and your crew not reporting on aspects of football that clearly are important to teams, G.M.’s and owners throughout the league. It seems reasonable to me that prior to hiring a twenty-something scholar-athlete for tens of millions of dollars, that an owner would like to have SOME idea of that person’s cognitive abilities, ESPECIALLY at key skill-positions. The fact that your organization does not have an interest in this area does not mean that you should not REPORT on the area if that area IS, an integral part of the hiring process. If this site was editorial in nature, that would be one thing, however I always thought your mission was to report key and important news, events, happenings etc. Teams continue valuing the test, and as such, reporting about outcomes should be one of your areas of coverage. It is not necessary to be snarky, or pithy, or clever. Simply covering outcomes would be both enough AND fair.

  75. Totally agree, Wonderlic tests prove nothing. It’s the 40 yard dash times we get so many articles about that really matter. Just ask All-Pro receiver Darrius Heyward-Bay.

  76. I agree there seems to be no definitive correlation between Wonderlic scores and actual performance in the NFL.

  77. Why can’t they make a relevant football test? Seems long over due to me. Just seems like there is a certain level of intelligence regarding football that could be tested using a combination of computer simulations and even hands on examples of what a guy knows. I would think it would help in situations where teams want to avoid drafting a guy who is going to turn into a one trick pony or have the ability to run a complicated offense.

  78. “What exactly does a random question test not about football have anything to do with football?

    AJ Green scored a 10.
    Troy Williamson scored a 21.

    It’s completely irrelevant to NFL success”

    I would bet my house that there is a significant correlation between Wonderlic Score and arrest rate in the NFL.

     24 1 

    You would probably end up homeless then. So if said player like Aj green scores a low number like 10 it means he will probably get arrested down the road? There is a large number of athletes who would or have scored above average on the wonderlic and have been arrested for something. Your lousy effort at a comparison is hilarious

  79. The wonderlic is *really* important for QBs only. You should continue to scrutinize those. Without a good head on your shoulders, the difference is Russell Wilson v. Vince Young or JaMarcus Russell.

    WRs and RBs don’t matter. QBs need to show competence.

  80. I just went through the publically available wonderlic scores for the guys on the Profootballtalk Police Blotter. Only one guy on the list (Leroy Hill-25) had a score over 20.

    True Story.

  81. As you can see most prefer to have them posted. I believe if you polled between an article like this or another about Revis you will see you are making the wrong choice.

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