Limitations of replay on display in Packers’ preseason opener

AP

Most of the time when the officials blow a call in the preseason, no one says anything because no one cares who wins or loses in the preseason. But the Packers were unhappy enough with the officials in their preseason loss to the Cardinals that they said something about it.

Packers running back James Starks ran up the middle on fourth-and-goal and was ruled down inside the 1-yard line, even though he did extend the ball beyond the goal line. The officials on the field ruled that Starks’s knee hit the ground before he reached the ball across the goal line, and referee Carl Cheffers didn’t see enough on replay to overturn the call on the field.

Packers coach Mike McCarthy said that while it may have been technically true that no replay angles showed Starks’s knees at the time he reached the ball over the goal line, it should have been obvious that his knees weren’t on the ground based on seeing the rest of Starks’s body.

The ball was over the goal line; Carl said he could not see [Starks’s] knee,” McCarthy said, via ESPNMilwaukee.com. “[Starks’s] hip was three feet off the ground so, I mean, I couldn’t see his knee either. You can figure that out. At least three feet off the ground.”

Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers agreed.

“I don’t think my opinion really matters, but it sure looked like it on the replay,” Rodgers said when asked if Starks scored. “We’ve got that beautiful replay board up there, and it seemed that his knees may have been off the ground, and he for sure reached the ball across. But . . . zero on the scoreboard.”

Ultimately, what was really on display was the fact that while instant replay can fix some officiating mistakes, it can’t fix everything. Sometimes there simply isn’t a replay angle that the referee thinks is conclusive, and that means sometimes the referee puts the game through a lengthy delay only to announce that he has to let the ruling on the field stand.

The Packers just have to hope they’re getting all of their officiating mistakes out of the way in the preseason. Unlike last year.

93 responses to “Limitations of replay on display in Packers’ preseason opener

  1. The NFL might not ever figure out how to use replay to get things right consistently. They have no intelligent leadership at the top that has any clue how to solve this very simple problem.

  2. Is there anything more meaningless than whether a call in preseason is missed or not? These are scrimmages, and revenue generators

  3. The Packers have always had to overcome the officiating bias against them by further outplaying their opponents. This kind of disadvantage represents just a minor setback when playing hapless and tasteless teams like the Vikings and Bears – whom they’ve beaten twice each seaon for the past 3 years.

  4. Packers and their lame fans constantly complain and whine about officials calls. I have never seen such sore losers and crybabies.
    Just look back to last season at the 5 year old childlike actions of the Packers and fans after Seattle soundly thumped them all night and Golden Tate made an amazing TD catch up which was correctly ruled a touchdown grab

  5. And I’m sorry but that WAS a catch last year. Next time tell your sorry DBs to knock the ball down, like they taught since Pee Wee, rather than go for the INT.

  6. To the Packer haters… I’ll be laughing the loudest when your team gets hosed by replay in a playoff game or Super Bowl.

  7. The Packers are the Real housewives of the NFL. Bunch of whining babies, get over yourselves your all brainwashed!

  8. The thing about “The Catch.” That game should have never come to that play. There was a PI called on a 3rd down play that was a fantastic defensive play and not PI. It should have been 4th down in Packers territory so they would have punted. Oh but it was called PI and the Packers proceeded to score the only TD they scored that game.

  9. redbirdsrising says:
    Aug 13, 2013 1:47 PM
    And I’m sorry but that WAS a catch last year. Next time tell your sorry DBs to knock the ball down, like they taught since Pee Wee, rather than go for the INT.
    —————————————
    I agree it was a catch, a “double catch” is awarded to the offense by rule. The problem is that the ref missed the blatant PI when Tate shoved a defender to the ground before he went up for the ball. It was a catch, but the catch should have been negated by an offensive PI call. Not a fan of either team, just an objective opinion of the play…

  10. I just wanna say filthy is a idiot.

    His team had a chance to beat mine three times last season.

    They got two.

    I know they one in post season which is worth the most of all games.

    But we did beat them in week 17 to get a playoff birth and that loss on your packers record pretty much sealed their fate as it meant they played the 49ers and Colin Kaepernick made Clay Mathews turn his head and whip his hair around like he was in a shampoo commercial.

    NO BIG DEAL.

  11. For a guy who gets a lot of help from The refs(if not for The refs The packers may not have scored a touchdown in The playoffs against The giants. osi still doesn’t know what Rodgers helmet feels like) Rodgers sure down talks them. Maybe they will start listening and you will see what not getting calls really feels like. I feel a 6-10 season coming with many terrible calls and at the end of the season the refs will ask Rodgers How he likes the officiating now… No wait that won’t happen. The media loves Rodgers way touch for that to happen.

    The only good news is the packers have threatened to sit out the rest of the pre season unless this is reviewed and fixed. In response Goodell alerted the media that they can’t have the packers upset and will end the pre season early and fire said official. Making note that the official was a replacement who snuck into the game just to screw the packers one more time

  12. This is rich. Packers complaining?

    – Packers WRs constantly push off

    – Doesn’t matter who’s at LT because they will be holding Peppers and Allen all season long and not get called once for it

    – If it weren’t for the Zebras the Giants game would have been 37-6 as both TD drives came because an official bailed them out on horrible calls.

    Thank your officials Packer fans

  13. whine whine whine whine…. Rodgers and packer fans…. all they do is whine….

    it was a catch

  14. This is either evidence that the Packers aren’t over last year’s loss to the She-hawks or their unearned sense of entitlement. If they were the kind of team their fans say they are, they would have taken their lumps and moved on. But they’re not, so we’re treated this sad display of sour grapes.

    And when you’re a serious contender for 5-11, you have to resort to desperate flailing about the officials. It’s almost the only way you can gain a competitive advantage because with this sad squad, it’s not happening on the offensive line, running game, WR corps, defensive line or secondary.

    Packers=Last.

  15. the packers beat the Vikings twice each of the last 3 seasons? lol…. you need to do some better research…..it’s actually GB 4 Minnesota 2 and they beat GB in week 17 last year to make the playoffs…. get a clue bro

  16. And @puntonfirstdown the refs did use review in the playoffs to a wrong call. Ironically agaianst aour p packers. Yet a rod didn’t mind that. You know the play where Donald driver fumbled and the giants recovered only for the refs to review the clear fumble and rules driver down leading to one of the two(ironically the other td was off a bad call as well) tds scored that whole post season

  17. There is more complaining about the perception of the Packers than anything else.

    Let me ask something; “How many like instant reply to correct the call errors on the field?” Let’s see a show of hands.

    That’s what I thought….almost everyone.

    So call it whining or whatever you want to call it, but call a spade a spade. The guy scored, plain and simple. The burden is not on the Packers to remain silent or not. The burden is on the ref’s to get it right.

    Get it right.

  18. @monnesoulja,
    Don’t act like you dominated week 17. You barely won to make it into the playoffs, only to be shredded the following week. Beating the packers had nothing to do with fate…except for yours. The packers would have lost at home to the 49ers anyways, while you were so lucky to receive another beat down by your big brother.

  19. Not a fan of the seahawks or packers, but that wasn’t a catch. It was an INT as soon as the defenders feet hit the ground. If you can gain possession by wrestling the ball away after the play is dead, why don’t DBs hold up but not tackle a receiver who has caught a ball then wrestle the ball away? Reason: refs blow the play dead after forward progress is stopped. Any stripping of the ball at that point is nullified.

    The only people saying that was a catch are Seahawk fans or fans of non-Packer teams in the NFC North. The rest of the league and the world realizes that call was a joke that had a lot to do with the NFL coming to terms with the regular officials.

  20. Wow – I actually agree with Rodgers here when he said: “I don’t think my opinion really matters”

  21. To all you haters that are posting… You sound like a bunch of 2nd graders… The media asked them about the replay, and they answered there question… No whinning, just there opinion.. I see more whinning from the haters than I do GB fans. I think the haters need to get over it… They’re the ones that keep bringing up the Seattle game… But, yet what do we expect from the people that have a 2nd grade education and still live at home……

  22. puntonfirstdown says: Aug 13, 2013 1:48 PM

    To the Packer haters… I’ll be laughing the loudest when your team gets hosed by replay in a playoff game or Super Bowl.

    —————————————————–
    Don’t forget, the Seahawks got screwed out of a Super Bowl by the refs and replays in that debacle against Pittsburgh.

    The Packers lost a regular season game and it was the end of the world and a bunch of whining and crying for weeks afterward.

  23. emoney826 says: Aug 13, 2013 2:21 PM

    @monnesoulja,
    Don’t act like you dominated week 17. You barely won to make it into the playoffs, only to be shredded the following week. Beating the packers had nothing to do with fate…except for yours. The packers would have lost at home to the 49ers anyways, while you were so lucky to receive another beat down by your big brother.

    —————————————————–
    You didn’t shred anyone in the playoff game against Minnesota. We had a backup QB in the game and you couldn’t put a hearty whooping on us in your own stadium.

    How many times did you lose to the 49ers last year?

  24. As a Seahawks fan, I know what it is like to whine about, and be hated for whining about, the refs. Also, I feel a particular connection to Packers fans because of the “Game 3 Debacle” on Monday night last year. The replacements refs altered the outcome of that game in a big way on multiple plays.

    But, what is odd about this story is that the REPLAY is being held up as the critical element. The Refs should be panned here. If his knee is a foot off the ground the refs should be able to call the play correctly in real time without need for a replay booth with limited view angles.

    And that’s another thing: In today’s technological age we have the ability to equip stadiums with the devices necessary to be able to record a play live and then, in replay, zoom around the play in 3D space. Depending on where the (many) cameras are placed you should be able to get views you normally wouldn’t when looking at 4 different replay angles. You put 360 cheap cameras around the ring of a stadium pointed at the field and you will have everything you need to create a fully 3d replay. Problem solved.

    And, as a Seahawks fan, it was not a catch. In any backyard in America that probably would have ended in a fight breaking out.

  25. “Packers coach Mike McCarthy said that while it may have been technically true that no replay angles showed Starks’s knees at the time he reached the ball over the goal line,…”

    Thats all you need to know. There was no conclusive evidence to overturn the call.

  26. This isn’t a limitation. The rule is there to stop subjective review from overturning a call made on the field. That’s why there has to be clear view on this type of call happens in nearly every game and most teams accept it for what it is. The Packers complaining about a pre-season call, guess their the only team in NFL to catch bad breaks.

  27. aaronfraudgers says:
    Aug 13, 2013 1:41 PM

    It’s only preseason and the Packers are already whining about the refs. Go figure.
    ———————————————
    It’s only pre-season and the Packer haters are already out in full-force. Go figure.

  28. The Packers will still be crying about that call in Week 16. And when they get eliminated early in the playoffs by another NFC West team, they’ll say it was this call in the preseason that cost them a home playoff game.

  29. Us Packer fans consitently whine about the refs cause it’s true that they often miss calls. Just like the haters who always whine about the Packers being so awesome.

  30. How is it whining if its true. Is he not supposed to answer the question when asked?

    Did Tate catch the ball? No he didn’t, replay clearly shows him not having possession when he hit the ground. If you dispute that, you’re an idiot. Did Starks put the ball over the goal line? Yes he did. Using simple reason will tell you it’s a touchdown.

  31. I fully respect the Packers organization, coaches, and players. It’s you cheddar huffing Miller swillers that grate on my nerves. As I’ve stated before, I’m really looking forward to the Vikings winning the division this year. Skol!

  32. What a bunch of comical hypocrites. They can’t even stand to lose a pre-season game w/o whining. If you want to see real tragedy, view the game last year when the Pack beat the Cardinals in Green Bay. Home cookin’, baby! Even the TV announcers were talking about obvious penalties the Packers committed that weren’t called.
    Looks like the Packers just might be not quite as good as they think they are (see, San Francisco playoff game.)

  33. Bluestree says:
    Aug 13, 2013 3:18 PM
    Beating the Vikings again this year will be even sweeter than last year. Can’t wait.

    *******************************************

    So you’ve got 2012 covered.

    But will beating them twice again this year be sweeter than when the Packers beat them twice in 2011?

    How bout 2010, when the Packers also beat the hapless, tasteless Vikings twice?

  34. esotericmindguy – “Did Tate catch the ball? No he didn’t, replay clearly shows him not having possession when he hit the ground. If you dispute that, you’re an idiot. Did Starks put the ball over the goal line? Yes he did. Using simple reason will tell you it’s a touchdown.”

    Fail 1. Tate did catch the ball. He had one hand on the ball and had clear control all through the catch. One hand catches are perfectly legal as the rules do not stipulate how many hands, just that the ball is under control.

    Fail 2. Yes, Stark’s ball DID cross the goal line. The unresolved question was whether or not his knee was down BEFORE the ball crossed. Unfortunately the video could not show that his knee was up conclusively, ergo the call on the field stands. If the ref on the field ruled touchdown, video replay would have held That up as well. When there is obstruction, they go with the call on the field.

  35. Packer fans are upset because they missed out on the only chance to see James Starks get a td this year.

  36. Open the lock and dams downstream, the flood of tears from Packer fans and players fans has begun! The excuses of injuries, bad calls and “they didn’t beat us, we beat ourselves”, is as synonymous with Green Bay as their Mossy Cade green and piss yellow uniforms!

  37. The Pack was robbed against Seattle. No one cares about this game though so quit whining. I mean it doesn’t matter at this point, if we can move on from Majkowski’s over the line of scrimmage completion surely we can put a preseason TD to bed.

  38. So funny… I know there’s a lot of stupid fans of every team (very much including my beloved Packers), but all I can do is laugh at all these Packer-hater posts because it’s just so clearly obvious how envious y’all are. I’m not saying that to get in on the smack-talk, it’s a genuine observation. Some of you must get up in the morning (or afternoon?) and, first thing, check up on the Pack. Can’t find any other reason for that than envy… Unless y’all are actually real Packer fans trying to pretend their hearts are somewhere else? Either way, it’s really quite amusing.

  39. Looks like the “almighty Packers” couldn’t handle being held scoreless at home by……….the Cardinals(Chris Berman gay high pitch voice)

  40. cornerblitz says:
    Aug 13, 2013 4:10 PM
    So funny… I know there’s a lot of stupid fans of every team (very much including my beloved Packers), but all I can do is laugh at all these Packer-hater posts because it’s just so clearly obvious how envious y’all are. I’m not saying that to get in on the smack-talk, it’s a genuine observation. Some of you must get up in the morning (or afternoon?) and, first thing, check up on the Pack. Can’t find any other reason for that than envy… Unless y’all are actually real Packer fans trying to pretend their hearts are somewhere else? Either way, it’s really quite amusing
    ////////////////////////////////////////

    I couldn’t agree with you more. I have been reading the same repetitive commnets for three straight years. The Packers always prevail. How do them apples taste haters?

  41. As a Pack fan, I say shut up Pack and quit your bitching. It draws a lot of attention you may not want. Oh and coach loose some fricking weight your look like your going to have a heart attack on the sidelines

    Mick , Eau Claire, Wi.

  42. Lol look at all of these morons.

    “I’ve never seen so much whining…”

    Really? Yeah. So after being asked by a reporter about what they saw on the play, they spend 15 seconds unemotionally replying to the question and move on to one of the other 30 questions in the press conference, and then never talk about it again.

    Oh my god, they’re sooo-ooo whiny.

  43. blergy says:

    Really? Yeah. So after being asked by a reporter about what they saw on the play, they spend 15 seconds unemotionally replying to the question and move on to one of the other 30 questions in the press conference, and then never talk about it again.
    ———————————————————
    You’d make an awful publicist.

  44. I agree with Aaron Rodgers when he said“I don’t think my opinion really matters,”. He is right.

  45. I was going to point out these comments were the direct result of being asked a question. They weren’t volunteered.

    I call a case of bad writing on the part of the author. A reader can clearly interpret the first paragraph as leaning towards “the Packers were whining about the call.”

    And then later, the author neglected to say “in response to a question.”

    While reporting is “supposed to be” unbiased. Just a few words here or there can subtlely slant the feel of an article.

    Coach MM should have probably said “It is what it is, we move on.”

    ‘Course, that won’t be nearly as interesting, and when somebody is trying to think of something write about.. we need something more controversial.

  46. go to Packer.com and look up video called “Aaron Rodgers hits target from 50 yards out”

    Note to purple trolls:

    Don’t you wish you had a quarterback like that???

  47. The NFL has really screwed up not clarifying the rule after the fail Mary.

    Logically, Tate did not catch the ball. By the convoluted simultaneous possession rule, you can make a case that he did.

    Unfortunately the NFL wrote the rule for 99% of the situations of simultaneous possession. Those cases are where two guys are face to face, both arms wrapped around the ball by both guys. They failed to account for the situation where one guy has 2 hands on the ball with the ball pinned against his body, and the offensive guy just has one hand wedged in.

  48. First and foremost Tate left hand and arm were the FIRST THING TO CINTROL AND STOP THE FOOTBALL while jumping in the end zone. Jennings would have whiffed on the ball and hit his chest plate, check an close slow motion replay and that’s obvious. That same left hand never moves off the ball, Jennings simply uses Tates left hand and ball and grabs around it pinning it to his chest, but Tates hand is still on the ball and between the ball and Jennings chest.

    Tate didn’t magically pull the football away from a defender, he had at least some control tye entire time. You see his right hand flail all over the place trying to grab the ball away, this does not change the fact that his other hand wad on the ball and that with that 1 hand compared to Jennings 2 hands wrapped around the ball that Jennings even with leverage could not pull the ball away, and tate even ended gaining complete possession. Having complete possession doesn’t matter but shows how tate must have and obviously had some control.

    Since tate completed the act of a catch (two feet down) and had some possession it is a catch. There is no rule to say one or another player has more possession. That simply doesn’t matter.

    To my eyes it’s an INT, to your the same but technically he interpreted the rules correctly. Having some possession vs completing the act like for an catch doesn’t change the outcome.

    Sports science didn’t do an good job interpreting the rules into this play they simply showed who had more possession or who gained possession first, but having any possession which he clearly did (wrestling the ball away and Jennings not being able to ever get it away despite your weak idea that tate grabbed the ball after although he grabbed the ball first with his left hand) again looks like an int but wasn’t, until you actually go look at the play from an objective point of view you will sound like a moron.

    I’ll admit I looked at first to see if it was correct, what I found was from professional analysts who broke down the play and Used all game footage (unlike they did that night) and I found as many found it to be a catch by definition only.

  49. The Packers blaming the refs? I do not believe it. They’ve never done that in the past, so I can’t believe they would ever whine about it now, especially in the preseason. Blind faith Packer fans know their team doesn’t make excuses. Ever.

    Right?

  50. Preseason or not they have a right to say something. It is good to see a team speak up about it. And for those of you that say it was a catch last year – get an education and glasses!

  51. go to youtube and search for

    “Aaron Rodgers awkward sensitive”

    That tells you all you need to know about aaron…

  52. @stellarperformance –

    OK, that explains why people post on Packer threads, but explain to me why so many Packer fans post on Vikings threads…after all you guys are best, classiest, most knowledgeable fans in the world (just ask you). The Vikings (and any articles about them) should hardly be a thought, but yet there you are all…

  53. Sports would be better without replays. That includes playing and replaying them on the scoreboards. Technology should not rule the game, that’s what officials are for.

  54. The Packers (and other “top” teams) get more blown/missed calls in their favor than the majority of NFL teams do. Just like Michael Jordan and similar superstars in the NBA get away with fouls left and right while every ticky-tack touch they receive draws one.

    Packers think the refs are jobbing someone, and they think it’s the Pack getting jobbed? Pot, meet Kettle….

  55. dcviking says:
    Aug 13, 2013 6:28 PM
    @stellarperformance –

    OK, that explains why people post on Packer threads, but explain to me why so many Packer fans post on Vikings threads…after all you guys are best, classiest, most knowledgeable fans in the world (just ask you). The Vikings (and any articles about them) should hardly be a thought, but yet there you are all…
    ///////////////////////////////////////////////

    I guess it’s tit-for-tat. I’ll do my part to keep it constructive and about football if you’ll do the same. Maybe we can be pioneers. And I only pull the “smartest NFL fans” card when idiots insist on insulting us. Screw ’em. One thing most fans of other teams do not understand about Packer fans and residents of Wisconsin in general; We know we don’t have to take a backseat to anybody from anywhere about anything and we really don’t care if you can’t handle it. Leopards do not lose sleep from the opinions of sheep (I love that one!)

  56. The Packers will go 8-8 this year, losing the division to the hapless, tasteless Vikings, like they will the next three years. Face it, it will be a long time before the high cholesterol state wins anything again.

  57. The call was correct, the ref saw nothing that could overturn it. The bottom line is in football you must dominate to win and Green Bay failed to dominate. You cannot count on the refs to win, an for the record the Vikings fans are the most notorious about whining on calls everyone knows that.

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