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Roethlisberger: QBs are judged by rings, so Brady is the NFL’s best

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Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger says that if you want to measure the greatness of a quarterback, you just need to look at the success of his team. Which means that in Roethlisberger’s opinion, the best active quarterback in the NFL is Tom Brady.

Roethlisberger told 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh that Brady winning three Super Bowl rings and consistently leading the Patriots to the playoffs makes it clear that he’s the best in the NFL.

“I speak off championships,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s no disrespect to some of these other guys that are doing some amazing things in the NFL right now. But to me, it’s about wins and championships, and he’s got more championships than anybody. So to me, he’s the best quarterback in the league, and he’s done it for a long time. . . . The number one factor is championships.”

Although Roethlisberger presented his comments as praise for Brady, it’s a little self-serving for Roethlisberger to say quarterbacks are judged by championships. Roethlisberger has two rings, which would mean he’s tied with Eli Manning as the second-best quarterback in the NFL, if you judge quarterbacks by rings.

But, frankly, that’s ridiculous. Does anyone seriously believe Roethlisberger and Eli Manning are better quarterbacks than Peyton Manning? And does Roethlisberger also think Trent Dilfer was a better quarterback than Dan Marino? Or Jim Plunkett was a better quarterback than Brett Favre? Or Joe Flacco has already accomplished more as an NFL quarterback than Fran Tarkenton?

Brady has played well in many big games, but as Bill Belichick noted when asked if Brady is a clutch player, what makes Brady great is that he has played well consistently. If Adam Vinatieri had missed a couple of Super Bowl-winning field goals and Brady only had one ring instead of three, that wouldn’t make Brady a worse quarterback than Roethlisberger. Brady’s greatness goes deeper than three Super Bowl rings.

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173 Responses to “Roethlisberger: QBs are judged by rings, so Brady is the NFL’s best”
  1. johnnyjagfan says: Oct 30, 2013 9:33 AM

    Translation: Since my team sucks right now and we haven’t been competitive for a while, it’s not my fault and I don’t suck. See my Super Bowl rings? I’m great!

    Gross. Glad he’s in the ‘Burgh this year. I hope he smells how bad it is and always remembers it.

  2. geniusry says: Oct 30, 2013 9:34 AM

    This is the best article MDS has ever written. Well done.

  3. wipackman1265 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:35 AM

    The only disagreement I have is guys like Archie Manning or any other guys who didn’t win because their defense was bad or their kicker missed wide right….. Brady is great for sure though …I’d take ARodg right now.

  4. marcuswelby70 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:35 AM

    Spot on Mike!

  5. blue18hutthutt says: Oct 30, 2013 9:36 AM

    Honestly, his post-season resume has been very Peyton Manning-esque since he won his last Superbowl on the backs of some elite Ds

    2005 – back breaking pick 6 in the redzone with the game in the balance

    2006 – should’ve thrown a game-ending interception but Troy Brown rips the fumble to give him a second chance – eventually does get a chance to throw a season ending interception following week against the Colts while giving up a 21 point lead

    2007 – greatest choke job of all time, bar none. “We’re only going to score 17 points?” turns out Plax was being generous. Barely beat a crippled Chargers team while throwing 3 INTs against a zero-ACL Rivers. Led team to season low output in points (to say the least) after averaging 30

    2009 – completely annihialated by Ravens – got some nice garbage time stats with the game well out of reach. Led team to season low output in points

    2010 – completely abused all game by the Jets D, started hearing footsteps and auto-sacking himself. Got some nice garbage time TDs against a prevent D that make the game look closer than it really was. Led team to season low output in points

    2011 – lost to Giants in Superbowl once again. Should’ve lost the previous week after throwing 0TD and 2INT against the Ravens. Threw a horrible 4th Q interception in the Superbowl by trying to do his best Eli-imitation, overthrew Welker to ice the game and missed open receivers throwing behind them. Once again led team to season low output in points

    2012 – completely shutdown by Ravens D and once again led team to season low output in points

    If Brady hadn’t won 3 Superbowls in his early years (mostly because of his D), we would be talking about him as this generation’s Dan Marino, who can’t win the big one

    Thumbs down this all you want Pats fans but it doesn’t change the inconvenient truth

  6. smokingconch says: Oct 30, 2013 9:36 AM

    Coming from a Steeler’s fan… I think I know why Ben decided QBs should only be judged on past Super Bowl rings this year…

  7. wvuandsteelers says: Oct 30, 2013 9:37 AM

    That would make Terry Bradshaw the greatest ever…..and I’m OK with that.

  8. shibbyleigh says: Oct 30, 2013 9:37 AM

    The only reason this sausage is claiming rings are what matters is because he has two thanks to a great defense and doesn’t want to be remembered as ONLY a rapist. He will be a champion rapist in my eyes forever.

  9. abninf says: Oct 30, 2013 9:40 AM

    So Philly has never had a good QB. Zero rings.

  10. twonis says: Oct 30, 2013 9:40 AM

    I think the ‘greatness according to rings’ is too one dimensional to be considered legit. I think that once you shake out the also-rans you can use the ring factor to get down to picking a winner.

    And that’s why Joe Montana is #1. And yes, he beats out Terry Bradshaw.

    And I’m a lifelong Packer fan. I’m hoping that one day I can say that Aaron Rodgers take that throne, but for now it’s Montana.

  11. exnavysub says: Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Let’s be honest here, this QB and rings talk needs to stop. The 3 Super Bowls they won, the first Brady did very little.
    And the other two, he was still more of a game manager. The Defense was really the MVP of the Pats’ Super Bowl victories. Yes, Brady was important, but I do believe he get a heck of a lot more credit than he deserves.
    And in reality, the first shoudlve never happened based on the the Brady rule in the Raiders game.
    But, whatever. It seems you arent allowed to do anything but praise Brady. Remember that the Pats went 11-5 without him, with a horrible Cassel.

  12. historyisyourfriend says: Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    I agree with what Ben is saying – with so many QB in the no defense league putting up video game numbers in the regular season, the true test of the elite QB is the playoffs/Superbowl and doing it more than once.

    Its the classic Eli vs. Peyton debate – do you want the regular season greatness then one and out in the playoffs? Or do you want borderline great play in the regular season and 2 Superbowls based on clutch play when the pressure is up?

    For me I want the guy who’s play elevates when the postseason hits. Regular season numbers don’t mean much when you go one and done for most of your career in the playoffs.

  13. Joemontanaflacco says: Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Actually, QBs are judged by how many times they were named Superbowl MVP, so Flacco is better than Roethlisbooger.

  14. tv426 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    BS – if that were true then everyone that played for whatever SB team for that year was the best possible in the NFL at their position during that season. Yeah, right!

    QBs are important but last I checked no QB “wins” or “loses” games without the other 52 players on the team.

    Look at Brady and his numbers this season to see the relative importance of all those “other” guys!

  15. Kayne East says: Oct 30, 2013 9:42 AM

    Somebody check on forsbergler, his head might have just exploded

  16. tavisteelersfan says: Oct 30, 2013 9:42 AM

    Yeah lets judge them by trying hard and being a good sport instead.

    Winning is winning.

    Not winning is common.

  17. wewantmoretebowandfavrearticles says: Oct 30, 2013 9:42 AM

    Roethlisberger said wins and championships are the criteria to judge a quarterback, with championships being the number one factor. He did not say championships were the only criteria, so you can spare us the trite “Trent Dilfer was a better quarterback than Dan Marino” accusation. After all, there is only so long a GM can prop up an average/bad quarterback with good roster management before they stop winning games (Schaub).

  18. h3min1230 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:42 AM

    What makes Brady the best ever is not just his rings, but the way he can adapt and dominate in any offense. From winning super bowls with average recievers to shattering records with elite talent to the 2 TE set. He can do it all.

  19. deathonwings410 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:43 AM

    Eli and Roethlisberger in the playoffs > Peyton Manning in the playoffs.

  20. puckthefatriots says: Oct 30, 2013 9:43 AM

    So says the guy with the 22.6 QB rating in a Super Bowl win. Now that’s greatness.

  21. phrancheyez says: Oct 30, 2013 9:43 AM

    It’s hard to argue with him here. A lot of people will never regress on their opinion that Manning is the best, but the NFL is about championships. I don’t like the Patriots or Tom Brady at ALL, but I’d never argue that BB or Tom Brady are two of the best in their roles of all time.

  22. psj3809 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:44 AM

    Think also its a case of being in the right place at the right time. Brady is an exceptional QB, trade him to the Jaguars tomorrow and does he go 12-4 ? Nope. Brady was the perfect fit for the Pats and the coach.

    Manning used to get slated about being a choker in the playoffs. Some of his past losses included the crazy Steelers loss, the Jets putting up a ton of points and Lamar Smith of the Dolphins rushing for 200 yards. Yet still people seemed to blame Manning for past playoff losses.

    Trent Dilfer was in the right place at the right time, hes a terrible QB yet somehow hes got a ring.

  23. skins9259 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:44 AM

    Brady is king

  24. xlichamps says: Oct 30, 2013 9:44 AM

    Haha, self-serving is right. Nice try Worthlessberger, you still suck.

  25. dickjagger says: Oct 30, 2013 9:46 AM

    As a Ravens fan I have no love for Big Ben but he absolutely right! All that matters in the end is rings, not stats and records. Manning has one ring and he’s lucky to have that after tanking in the post season all the other tries. Great quarterbacks should be measured by what they do all season, not just the regular season.

  26. briandorry55 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:46 AM

    Brady is the most accomplished quarterback in the league…and Ben and Eli are more accomplished than Peyton, yes…does that mean any of them are “better” football players than Peyton? No…but I guarantee you that Peyton would trade some of those passing records for rings.

  27. filthymcnastyog says: Oct 30, 2013 9:47 AM

    “Brady’s greatness goes deeper than three Super Bowl rings.”

    amen

  28. lalaunch says: Oct 30, 2013 9:47 AM

    If David Tyree and Manningham don’t make those great plays then Brady has 5.

  29. jr4real says: Oct 30, 2013 9:50 AM

    Roethlisberger > both Mannings

    So you want Peyton as your QB to take you to the SB? I’ll take Ben any day over that choker.

  30. 6ball says: Oct 30, 2013 9:52 AM

    .

    Brady is not only consistent over the course of games. He’s been consistent for more than a decade.

    Patriots win totals since 2001 : 11, 9, 14, 14, 10, 12, 16, 11*, 10, 14, 13, 12, 6.

    * Brady on IR

    .

  31. arcross12042004scorp15 says: Oct 30, 2013 9:53 AM

    Jim Kelly drives his team to the 30 yard line, Scott Norwood misses. Brady drives his team down for 2 last second field goals Vinitari makes them both. Brady is great, Kelly is not ?

  32. bullcharger says: Oct 30, 2013 9:53 AM

    It has to be a combination of championships, playoff performance, regular season wins, statistics, who else was on the team, etc.

    For example, Montana is widely considered the greatest QB ever, partially because of his 4 rings for sure, but not only because of that. Also due to his performance in many big games, statistics, etc. However, Bradshaw has 4 Super Bowls and because he had the Steel Curtain, Swann, Stallworth and Harris and his stats weren’t great he’s not even in the conversation with Montana, Unitas, Elway, Marino, Manning, Brady and others for the top few QBs all time.

    Wins matter for sure, and Brady getting his team to 5 Superbowls and winning 3 in 11 years of starting is very impressive, but I agree it’s more than that. Marino with zero and Manning with 1 are right at the top of the QB list too.

  33. ialwayswantedtobeabanker says: Oct 30, 2013 9:56 AM

    Agree completely with PFT here on all levels.

    Thing is, football is a TEAM game – so winning Super Bowls is a function of TEAM performance. A QB is often, but not always, the most influential player on the chessboard. In some cases, an rushing attack can minimize the QB’s impact. In others, the differences in special teams can be the difference in bride or bride’s maid. And in still others, the balance can be swayed by the variances in defensive strength. Then, there are the impacts, of injuries, luck, officiating, etc.

    To oversimplify how QBs should be judged, like Ben does (and he’s MY QB as a Steeler fan) — is indeed, off the mark and not fair in general. Bradshaw does the same thing. I wish they wouldn’t – they place too much emphasis on their contributions, and too little emphasis on those of their legendary teammates and coaches. Some of the defenses Brad and Ben played with were absolutely astounding — some of their offensive mates were too. So yeah, it is kind of self-serving for them to sell it like that.

    By this absurdly misguided standard, Drew Brees and Brad Johnson are equals – as are David Woodley and Dan Marino. Many such ludicrous examples can also be cited.

  34. tiredofyoureferringtoateamaswe says: Oct 30, 2013 9:58 AM

    Ok…yes, Brady is a great quarterback…but judge quarterbacks based upon Superbowls “they” have won? What could be dumber. I guess that means Dan Marino sucked because he has no rings? Trent Dilfer was better than Marino and better than John Elway until the last 2 seasons of his career?
    I HATE this stupid argument. It is and always has been stupid. Eli better than Peyton as he has one more ring? Stupid. Last I checked teams have over 50 other guys on the team out there. They must be doing something. Running game, blocking, defense, special teams, coaching………………..

  35. ialwayswantedtobeabanker says: Oct 30, 2013 9:59 AM

    My comment was NOT to slam Brady – whom I have immense respect for. It’s just that I think Ben’s spin on how to assess QB worth/value is off the mark.

    That stated, Brady was clearly one of the very best ever – he has to be in everyone’s short list of the most elite QBs to take a snap on Sundays.

  36. jbeagles23 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:00 AM

    I’d take Peyton weeks 1 to 17. Give me Brady in the playoffs

  37. jdfrox says: Oct 30, 2013 10:01 AM

    Ben is not the brightest guy on the planet, but the rings are really just a measure of the best team. Sure they are something to consider, but football is the ultimate team game and you can’t say that a guy that has an elite defense, star WRs and a great head coach is a better QB than a guy without those just because he won a ring.

  38. ufanforreal says: Oct 30, 2013 10:01 AM

    Are you kidding me, if Brady didn’t have the kicker he had he might have 1 ring, I say might because if the refs didn’t give him the tuck rule…..well that’s a whole different ball game.

  39. truthfactory says: Oct 30, 2013 10:01 AM

    Brady and Rothlesburger had very bad games in Super bowl wins. I think they each literally passed for less than 150 yds in SB wins. Brady even threw 3 INT’s in an AFC championship game and won!

    These are TEAM victories. For all the “Brady is great in the post-season and Manning stinks” talk that is out there- I actually think Peyton has a higher QB rating than Brady in the post-season. The problem for Manning is his defense has given up an average of 24 ppg in playoffs while Brady’s D has been about 19 ppg. Thats the difference between the 2

  40. bullcharger says: Oct 30, 2013 10:02 AM

    psj3809 says:Oct 30, 2013 9:44 AM

    Think also its a case of being in the right place at the right time. Brady is an exceptional QB, trade him to the Jaguars tomorrow and does he go 12-4 ? Nope. Brady was the perfect fit for the Pats and the coach.

    Manning used to get slated about being a choker in the playoffs. Some of his past losses included the crazy Steelers loss, the Jets putting up a ton of points and Lamar Smith of the Dolphins rushing for 200 yards. Yet still people seemed to blame Manning for past playoff losses.

    Trent Dilfer was in the right place at the right time, hes a terrible QB yet somehow hes got a ring.

    ——————-

    I hate to say it, but Brady might go 10-6 at least if he was on the Jags. He was 5-1 to start the season playing with nobody before he even got Gronk back. The Jags have better offensive weapons for sure. You can never know unless it happens of course. Manning has of course proven he can succeed elsewhere, but look at how much more he struggled in his last year at Indy playing with a relatively weak offensive team.

  41. nflfan22 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:04 AM

    if you want your team to have a terrific season, win tons if games by 2 TD’s, and put up outrageous stats, Manning is your guy. If its playoff time and you want a real shot at a championship? Brady,Ben, or Eli are all better choices. the only stat that matters is winning the big games. plain and simple.

  42. crewdawg says: Oct 30, 2013 10:04 AM

    As much as Eli sucks, I’ll still take him anyday in a playoff game over Peyton.

  43. Rhode Island Patriots Fan says: Oct 30, 2013 10:04 AM

    Kudos to “Big Ben” for an intellectually honest opinion. Of course, his opinion will go over like a lead—or steel, as the case may be—balloon with some Steelers fans.

  44. demons87 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:04 AM

    Brady has been to 5 Super Bowls. 5! Let that sink in for a second. 5.

    For all those teams that have had great defenses, how many of them have been to 5 Super Bowls and more than half of the AFC Championship games in the last 13 years.

    Call him a game manager if you want, but he has consistently had the Pats playing on the last two weekends of the year. Sounds like this game manager is better than your elite QB.

  45. indywilson40 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:06 AM

    Let’s be honest here, this QB and rings talk needs to stop. The 3 Super Bowls they won, the first Brady did very little.
    And the other two, he was still more of a game manager. The Defense was really the MVP of the Pats’ Super Bowl victories. Yes, Brady was important, but I do believe he get a heck of a lot more credit than he deserves.
    And in reality, the first shoudlve never happened based on the the Brady rule in the Raiders game.
    But, whatever. It seems you arent allowed to do anything but praise Brady. Remember that the Pats went 11-5 without him, with a horrible Cassel.

    Finally, someone gets it. Excellent post.

  46. joetoronto says: Oct 30, 2013 10:06 AM

    Rings carry weight, no doubt about it.

    When you have a QB like Dan Marino though, you can’t discount him knowing he would have won multiple Super Bowls, if he had a halfway decent defense.

    Having said that, I’ve never seen any one better than Joe Montana. :)

  47. esotericmindguy says: Oct 30, 2013 10:07 AM

    Sure, ask the average QB who won super bowls based on his defense.

  48. mountaindont says: Oct 30, 2013 10:08 AM

    This would make Bart Starr the greatest with 5 over all championships

  49. ctg4 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:09 AM

    it’s a combo of a lot of things, it’s not as much about the rings as it is how they played to help their teams get those rings. Peyton is a top 5 all time reg season QB(may even be the best) but in January he melts. Even his only SB win he struggled all postseason except the one great half vs. NE(where Brady led an O w/ Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his top weapons on O to the title game).

    Peyton is a terrible postseason QB, Brady has done more w/ less than Peyton had. Switch the QBs and Indy has 3-4 SBs while NE has 1 or 2 at most.

    In 4 of Brady’s 5 SBs his D blew a late game lead- the first 2 he had time to rescued them, the last 2 he did not. Manning’s D has never blown a SB but Peyton has w/ his INT for a TD to seal SB XLIV against NO.

  50. osiris33 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:09 AM

    Yeah look at John Elway. Without Terrelle Davis running the ball 37 times, he’s the biggest choke in Super Bowl history. But he has 2 rings, so everybody thinks he’s great.

  51. tsmercurio says: Oct 30, 2013 10:10 AM

    Does that make Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino?

  52. terripet says: Oct 30, 2013 10:11 AM

    Ben what are you smoking, Brady is not in the top 10. He is 18% on passes of 20 yards or more that is pitiful, He is all done.

  53. indywilson40 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:11 AM

    Let me remind everyone that Roethlisberger had the worst game ever for a Super Bowl winning quarterback. He was so awful that the Steelers resorted to letting Wide Receivers throw the ball. Nice attempt to stay relevant though Ben.

  54. peytonalwayschokes says: Oct 30, 2013 10:12 AM

    Why does this Brady debate always bring out the Pats haters? He’s won 3 Super Bowls, he is 159-48 all time (17-7 in the ‘loffs) and yeah he’s put up some stinkers but so has literally every QB.

    Look at Peyton and his choke jobs
    Look at ARodge getting smoked by the Giants
    Look at Brees, lost like 11 games last year
    Look at Flacco, he wasn’t special until last year
    Look at Roth has I believe the worst QB rating in a Super Bowl all time
    Look at Eli, he can’t even make the ‘loffs and has been one and done 3 times.

    The bottom line is that he is the most consistent QB year in and year out and he deserves the BEST label even if he isn’t perfect – no one is.

  55. jnbnet says: Oct 30, 2013 10:13 AM

    blue18hutthutt says:
    Oct 30, 2013 9:36 AM
    Honestly, his post-season resume has been very Peyton Manning-esque since he won his last Superbowl on the backs of some elite Ds

    ———————————————-
    Wow! A little obsessed with the Patriots? Most of the Patriots fans Don’t hate #18. I love watching him usless he is playing the Patriots.

    Your post is full of should of….could of. It goes both ways. The refs should have called Eli in the grasp…he completes a pass caught on the helmet? Harrison drops an interception that should have ended the game…
    The fact is the Patriots won those games, and they lost the other games….deal with it.

  56. terripet says: Oct 30, 2013 10:14 AM

    When Brady won these super bowls he had great defenses now that he doesn’t he is an average qb at best.

  57. ctg4 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:15 AM

    truthfactory: Brady’s Ds have allowed less points. You are counting Manning INTs for TDs and STs TDs against the Colts/Broncos Ds.

    Actual pts allowed by defenses:

    Brady’s Pats:
    475 pts in 24 games: 19.8 PPG

    Manning’s Colts/Broncos:

    391 in 20 games, 19.6 PPG

    and this counts OTs

  58. steelersaregodsteam says: Oct 30, 2013 10:15 AM

    Roethlisberger is an incredibly humble person and champion. First-ballot easily.

  59. possumsauce says: Oct 30, 2013 10:18 AM

    wvuandsteelers says: Oct 30, 2013 9:37 AM

    That would make Terry Bradshaw the greatest ever…..and I’m OK with that.

    —-

    Bradshaw retired with exactly 2 more TDs (212) than INTs (210). You’re OK with some real nonsense.

  60. bspurloc says: Oct 30, 2013 10:19 AM

    actually it does make Eli a better QB than Peyton.

    failure to escalate your game play in the playoffs means u r a failure.
    The whole point of stepping onto the field week 1 is to make it to the superbowl not pad your stats.

    The more rings on your finger the better u r.

  61. 87hollywoodhorn says: Oct 30, 2013 10:19 AM

    Tom Brady is way overrated, and hes a hasbeen

  62. bobzilla1001 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:19 AM

    Quarterbacks who have allowed their defenses to do all the heavy lifting throughout their careers have no recourse but to say it’s all about wins, rings and championships.
    Roethlisberger’s TD passing numbers are embarrassing low. He’s quarterbacked far too many bottom-third scoring offenses while being supported by top-5 defenses. Without those elite defenses, Roethlisberger would be another Kyle Orton.
    And he knows it.

  63. 2jivecrew says: Oct 30, 2013 10:22 AM

    Well there’s no question Ben has far better playoff numbers than Manning. You don’t get to 3 Super Bowls if you suck.

  64. bullcharger says: Oct 30, 2013 10:22 AM

    exnavysub says:Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Let’s be honest here, this QB and rings talk needs to stop. The 3 Super Bowls they won, the first Brady did very little.
    And the other two, he was still more of a game manager. The Defense was really the MVP of the Pats’ Super Bowl victories. Yes, Brady was important, but I do believe he get a heck of a lot more credit than he deserves.
    And in reality, the first shoudlve never happened based on the the Brady rule in the Raiders game.
    But, whatever. It seems you arent allowed to do anything but praise Brady. Remember that the Pats went 11-5 without him, with a horrible Cassel.

    ————————–

    Easy to refute that. Brady’s second Super Bowl was one of the greatest QB performaces of all time. 32-29 in an explosion of points. 32 completions, most in Super Bowl history.

    There is no Brady rule. The tuck rule was already in the books and had been called in the 2001 season several times prior to that game. It was also called many times in the 10 years before they changed the rule. The rule is still hard to call now they fixed it by the way. Go take a look.

    11-5 (and missing the playoffs) was 5 wins less than Brady had with the exact same team the year before. That’s the same as going from 10-6 to 5-11. That’s a huge drop off. If you think Brady would have been 11-5 if he stayed healthy in 2008, you are crazy.

  65. kgb108 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:23 AM

    Well lets look at this years regular season stats so far… Brady is one td ahead of Ben. Ben has a higher completion rate and more yards. The steelers are 2-5 and the pats are 6-2. So the argument Ben could be making is valid to a degree. Stats don’t tell the story, championships say more about a QB than stats alone.

  66. countduku says: Oct 30, 2013 10:23 AM

    Now i only wish that the Rex Grossman led Bears had won that Super Bowl game in 2006. It would have made this story epic.

  67. demons87 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:24 AM

    If you are going to discount Brady’s championships because he had a good defense, then you should discount all the Bradshaw/Steelers (Steel Curtain), Montana/49ers (Lott/Haley/Millen) and Aikman/Cowboys (Haley/Casillas/Woodson/Sanders) as well because they had some great defenses.

    Let’s be realistic. You need both parts to be a championship team and there are quite a few teams that have a top quality defense each year. Why does Brady keep playing in the big game though? He must be doing something right because the Ravens, Steelers and Jets with their great defenses have only been to two, three and zero respectively.

  68. stoogy says: Oct 30, 2013 10:25 AM

    Teams win championships not QB’s alone. Ben should know this. His team “defense” carried him to get those 2 rings! This guy is just as dumb as he looks. Go put your hat on backwards and sit on the bench and laugh it off week after week as your getting spanked. “Atleast he has 2 rings”

  69. securb2013 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:26 AM

    Jim McMahon has two Super Bowl rings. 1985-86 Chicago Bears, which won Super Bowl XX and Super Bowl XXXI with Green Bay (as a backup). But the guy has two rings which absolutely kills the rings v. talent theory.

  70. flash1283 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:28 AM

    exnavysub says: Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Let’s be honest here, this QB and rings talk needs to stop. The 3 Super Bowls they won, the first Brady did very little.
    And the other two, he was still more of a game manager. The Defense was really the MVP of the Pats’ Super Bowl victories. Yes, Brady was important, but I do believe he get a heck of a lot more credit than he deserves.
    And in reality, the first shoudlve never happened based on the the Brady rule in the Raiders game.
    But, whatever. It seems you arent allowed to do anything but praise Brady. Remember that the Pats went 11-5 without him, with a horrible Cassel.

    That’s a lot of revisionist history.

    His first SB #’s are almost identical with Montana, I’ll give you that. Keep in mind it was only his 14 game plays.

    His second SB vs Caronlina had nothing to do with the D. After the first 10 minutes that game was a shootout. Brady passed for over 350 yards and set a SB record at the time. Hardly a “game manager”

    Then 3rd SB every time the eagles scored the Patriots matched them on the very next drive.

  71. blu4l1fe says: Oct 30, 2013 10:30 AM

    He does make a bit of a good point, but SB rings are not the overall lithmus paper that totally makes a great QB, and I do agree with the assessment that his opinion, of course, is a bit self-serving.

    There were some QBs that, at their time, were definitely SB-caliber but just couldn’t, in one way or another and due to circumstances of course (including the team that surrounded them), get over the hump and win the big one. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino just to name a couple.

  72. weepingjebus says: Oct 30, 2013 10:32 AM

    Tom Brady is the all-time NFL leader in postseason victories, passing Montana last season. There was a factoid after the NE-Saints game that that was the 38th time that Tom Brady had led the Patriots back to a win after being tied or trailing in the 4th quarter. 38 times.

    Frankly, it’s amusing listening to folks call him overrated.

  73. Steeley McBeam says: Oct 30, 2013 10:33 AM

    No QB joins the league saying “I want to have the best stats ever.” They enter the league with the sole goal of winning Championships.

    QBs have the biggest impact of any single player on the field in determing the outcome of the game. While there are certainly exceptions like the 2001 Ravens, the overwhelming majority of the time an elite, clutch, QB is the one hoisting the Lombardi.

    Look at the current SB winning QBs — Ben, Brady, Manning bros, Rodgers, Brees and Flacco.

    Each of those QBs are elite and thats a pretty good start to a list of top QBs. Some of the young guys will get them eventually but those are the top dogs in the league, and thats exactly what Ben said.

  74. mrsmell says: Oct 30, 2013 10:36 AM

    Some QBs will be remember with their SB teams. Some QBs will be remember cause they were that good on the field. I rather be remember for being that good.
    If Big Ben could harness how Peyton controls the game, I have no doubt he could be an all time great with his escapability.

  75. blu4l1fe says: Oct 30, 2013 10:38 AM

    peytonalwayschokes says:
    Oct 30, 2013 10:12 AM

    Why does this Brady debate always bring out the Pats haters? He’s won 3 Super Bowls, he is 159-48 all time (17-7 in the ‘loffs) and yeah he’s put up some stinkers but so has literally every QB.

    ————————————————–

    It is quite hilarious how you, obviously a Brady fan, can just focus on his seemingly “flawless” career and achievements and then say, in the same breath, the failures of other QBs in his generation. Did you read your post before you submitted it?

    You just essentially mentioned every failure of each QB (while seemingly forgetting to include that some have also won a SB), without including Brady’s.

    Let’s see where to start, ok, since I am a Giants fan, yeah, Eli, and his team, looks horrible right now, and yes, he’s looked bad other seasons as well. But let’s see, Eli’s first SB, was against a WHAT? An undefeated NE team QB’d by none other than Brady. Oh, and yeah, almost forgot, Eli’s 2nd SB win was, wait, hold on, against a seemingly destined NE team, again QB’d by Brady.

    I am not saying, by any means of the imagination that Eli is perfect, but by your post, you essentially said Brady is without actually saying it.

    So, dude, your assessment is a total FAILURE. I get that you’re a Brady fan, but your bias is as clear as day!

  76. tavisteelersfan says: Oct 30, 2013 10:38 AM

    Steelers had an amazing defence and a power running game for almost all of Cowher’s era … yet could not win until Roethlisberger came along. Coincidence?

    How did the Pats do before Brady, 49’rs before Montana. There have been three defences I’ve seen win a SuperBowl (Ravens, Bucs and Bears) but generally you need 1st class QB.

    Oh and how about dem Cowboys.

    LOL.

  77. sylar1888 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:38 AM

    So I guess Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino because he has a ring and Dan doesn’t. I hate that logic of a QB is better than another because he has more rings. I’m sure the other ten guys on offense, the eleven on defense and special teams don’t make any difference on whether or not a team makes it to and wins a Super Bowl. Dumbest logic ever…

  78. bullcharger says: Oct 30, 2013 10:39 AM

    terripet says:Oct 30, 2013 10:11 AM

    Ben what are you smoking, Brady is not in the top 10. He is 18% on passes of 20 yards or more that is pitiful, He is all done.

    ——————

    To quote Belichick, stats are for losers, the final score is for winners. 6-2. 3rd best start in the time Brady has been in NE.

    It was nice that Brady had all the stats, but they also went 1 and done twice in the playoffs in that stretch and didn’t win either Super Bowl. Stats don’t mean anything.

  79. sdnative1904 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:40 AM

    I assume this theory does not jive with Mike’s QB Power Rankings ??

  80. raiderlyfe510 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:40 AM

    Stats and wins will get a QB into the the discussion of the greatest of all time, but once you get into the discussion your championships will determine where you’ll be placed among the all time greats.

    Brady is 3-2 in Superbowls and the Super Bowls he lost was due to a Assante Samuel dropped game-ending interception and a miraculous play where Tyree catchers a pass with his helmet. He still almost completed a 70 yard pass to Moss that would have got the Pats in FG positions….the other loss was due to a Wes Welker dropped pass that would have iced the Giants.

    Montana’s the greatest. He would have had 6 superbowls. But Belichick and the Giants defense knocked Montana out of two different playoff games…Brady’s second.

  81. shayeezy says: Oct 30, 2013 10:42 AM

    peyton manning is a choke artist. EIGHT one and dones is not a fluke.

  82. citizenstrange says: Oct 30, 2013 10:46 AM

    It’s a good thing for Roethlisberger that quarterbacks are not judged on how many wins they get when their defense gives up over 20 points because he has like five of those in his career.

  83. seadan1973 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:46 AM

    Brady isn’t in the “best QB” discussion until he wins after spy gate! That is the only way he puts that controversy behind him. Pats fans may not like reading that but it’s true.

    They got caught cheating, I tend to think that the slight edge they had with cheating, was just enough to put them over the top.

    Don’t wanna hear spy gate?? Win now..

  84. doctorrustbelt says: Oct 30, 2013 10:49 AM

    This is the type of interview that you would expect from a declining quarterback on a declining team that has officially been kicked into 2nd best quarterback in the AFC North by a red headed quarterback who only played three quarters this past Sunday.

    325 yards — 5 td — 1 int — 125.7 QB Rating
    (IN THREE QUARTERS)

  85. packfanaj12 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:51 AM

    A good QB… there is so many aspects for a good QB. Superbowl rings are one way to identify who probably had a lot of success, but there is much more to that a good QB. There are many amazing QB’s that have never won a Superbowl… you need to have a great front line for a QB to have time to make plays, you need a RB to compliment to passing game, and obviously a good receiving core to pass to… Not to mention a defense to give the QB more possession time. Super Bowls are won by great teams… which usually have great QBs to lead the offense, but that is not ALWAYS the case.

    Things great QB’s know…
    -Personal stats do not win games
    -A QB cannot win the game by themselves
    -Always be motivating your team… even when things look grim
    -Play through the pain if you can (That’s right… I said it Jay Cutler… pshaa on the groin tear)
    -Take the blame when needed
    -Always know one can improve even if called the best
    -Be humble

  86. dcpatfan says: Oct 30, 2013 10:53 AM

    thank you Ben…for letting us all realize what we already knew.

  87. mugsymagpie says: Oct 30, 2013 10:56 AM

    Blue18hutthutt, some good points but no entirely accurate. 2006 IF reche Caldwell does not drop ball that hit his chest. Game over pats not colts in Super Bowl. 2007 pats lose Super Bowl Brady had hurt ankle but drive them down to td. Defense lets up. Bad loss but a loss. 2003 Brady lit up Carolina. So you need to be a wee more accurate. Good try though. How is big blue doing? Eli?

  88. maraneso says: Oct 30, 2013 10:56 AM

    mountaindont says: Oct 30, 2013 10:08 AM

    This would make Bart Starr the greatest with 5 over all championships

    ____

    But we already knew this…Once again the truth is confirmed.

  89. fatsolio says: Oct 30, 2013 10:57 AM

    Oh and Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson and Joe Theismann are better than Dan Marino and Jim Kelly and are on par with Steve Young, Favre, Warner, Aaron Rodgers, P. Manning, Brees. I await Trent and Brad’s hall of fame inductions.

    Jim Plunkett and Bob Griese are better than all those guys too as are Ben and Eli.

    Aikman is one of the top 4 all-time and Bradshaw is as good as Montana and better than everyone else as well.

    Funny how the morons who judge QBs by rings never mention this stuff. They like to just use the ring idiocy for a specific argument that includes like 3 people which always involves Teflon Tom.

    I’d LOVE to see Eli get another ring so I can see how the ring argument magically changes when he has as many as Tommy.

  90. stagpaoa says: Oct 30, 2013 11:04 AM

    I am a Tampa fan, any quarterback is great.

  91. patsfansknowitall says: Oct 30, 2013 11:06 AM

    not by a long shot.

  92. xxsweepthelegxx says: Oct 30, 2013 11:07 AM

    @bullcharger
    “11-5 (and missing the playoffs) was 5 wins less than Brady had with the exact same team the year before. That’s the same as going from 10-6 to 5-11. That’s a huge drop off. If you think Brady would have been 11-5 if he stayed healthy in 2008, you are crazy.”
    ————————-
    Great post. I love how everyone points out “they still went 11-5 with Cassell, Brady isn’t that great.”

    Cassell took over the SAME team that just went 18-1…..a 5 game drop off is ridiculous.

  93. hairpie2 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:20 AM

    blue18hutthutt says:Oct 30, 2013 9:36 AM

    Honestly, his post-season resume has been very Peyton Manning-esque since he won his last Superbowl on the backs of some elite Ds

    2005 – back breaking pick 6 in the redzone with the game in the balance
    -with 2 blown calls, one on the phanton PI called on Asant Sameul, then the blown call when Ben Watson knocked the ball out of Champ Baileys hands..

    2006 – should’ve thrown a game-ending interception but Troy Brown rips the fumble to give him a second chance – eventually does get a chance to throw a season ending interception following week against the Colts while giving up a 21 point lead
    – Entire Pats team sick with flu, Colts turn up heat in Pats locker room, another phantom call “Hand to the head” of Manning.

    2007 – greatest choke job of all time, bar none. “We’re only going to score 17 points?” turns out Plax was being generous. Barely beat a crippled Chargers team while throwing 3 INTs against a zero-ACL Rivers. Led team to season low output in points (to say the least) after averaging 30
    -If you listened to the whole quote, Brady asked if Plax was going to be playing D. Its convienent to leave that out and not take the statement in the context it was delivered. Brady also had a broken foot and led the team to a lead with 2 minutes left. If Sameul doesnt choke, they go 19-0

  94. kulik03 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:20 AM

    Everyone needs to relax and stop jumping down Ben’s throat. You’re assuming that just because he said “rings = the best” doesn’t mean he’d say that he was better than Peyton Manning. The Steelers are playing New England this weekend and he was asked about Tom Brady so he complimented Tom Brady and had to give the “rings” explanation because Tom Brady is playing like crap right now (probably because he has noone around him).

    I’m pretty sure before the Steelers played Denver last year, Ben was asked about Peyton and said the same thing, that Peyton is the best QB or one of the best ever.

  95. r8dernation says: Oct 30, 2013 11:22 AM

    If this was tennis, I would agree, but it’s not, it’s football, which is a team sport. Besides, Bradshaw has 4, I guess he’s better. And Dilfer is better than Marino? Rings only mean you played with a lot of very good players and coaches.

  96. dachozen1 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:22 AM

    There is definitely some truth to that. The only caveat is the talent around the QB and how did the QB perform in big games. There is an argument that Peyton Manning is the best regular season QB ever but he cannot be considered the best with his playoff record. The best QBs dont have whispers circulating about choking in big games either. This is a huge reason why Brady owns this era over Manning for me.

  97. ianimal69 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:29 AM

    For all those pointing out Roethlisberger’s stats in SB XL, let’s not forget that the Steelers never would have even BEEN there if not for Ben leading them to THREE road victories as the #6 seed that year…

    Wild Card Game @ Cincy – PIT 31, CIn 17… 14 for 19 for 208 yards and 3 TDs

    Divisional Playoff @ Indy – PIT 21, IND 18… 14 for 24 for 197 yards and 2 TDs with 1 INT… PLUS a miraculous game-saving tackle on Bob Sanders following the Bettis fumble on the 1-yard line that will one day stand alongside the Immaculate Reception as the greatest plays ever in Steelers history.

    AFCC at DEN – PIT 34, DEN 17… 21 for 29 for 275 yards and 2 TDS with a rushing TD as well.

    So… go ahead and point out his stats and QBR from that Super Bowl… Steelers fans know that Super Bowl belongs to Ben far more than anyone else on that team.

  98. slick50ks says: Oct 30, 2013 11:30 AM

    By any metric, Peyton Manning is a playoff bust.

  99. dickroy says: Oct 30, 2013 11:34 AM

    That means Terry Bradshaw is the best of all time!

  100. CKL says: Oct 30, 2013 11:39 AM

    Yes some QBs are better than others but I am still in wonder over the whole “QB is a dependent position” coupled with ” they are the most imortant position and have a W-L record” thing that some media seem to posit as both being factual constantly. I’d rather have a good QB and a great defense than vice versa.

    Oh and in the TB vs PM defenses argument, it is a fact that PMs defenses, most of the time, gave up fewer or about their season average points wise in the playoffs, while the offense scored far fewer points than their season average. Lately the Pats have been similar which is one reason why I blame the Pats offense more for their two SB losses, and most of their recent playoff losses. TB bears some direct blame for SB 46 especially where he threw that awful INT to a Gronk who never should have had a pass like that thrown to him unless he was healthy (which he wasn’t). He also made some other uncharacteristic mistakes that were crucial. Manningfans can’t blame him or the offense for ANYTHING, that’s what the difference is.

  101. gochargersgo says: Oct 30, 2013 11:39 AM

    “But, frankly, that’s ridiculous. Does anyone seriously believe Roethlisberger and Eli Manning are better quarterbacks than Peyton Manning? And does Roethlisberger also think Trent Dilfer was a better quarterback than Dan Marino? Or Jim Plunkett was a better quarterback than Brett Favre? Or Joe Flacco has already accomplished more as an NFL quarterback than Fran Tarkenton?”

  102. originalsteelcurtain says: Oct 30, 2013 11:40 AM

    “QB Greatness” is a combo of SB wins and being “Great”.

    There is no story here.

    Dan Marino will be knocked down a peg for never winning a SB, Ben (eventually) will be lifted for winning two.

  103. sallust99 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:41 AM

    BIG BEN is 100 PERCENT CORRECT.

    Please name your top 5 QBs of all time in NFL history – I guarantee everyone’s list has a QB with at least one if not multiple championships.

    And I bet with the exception of Marino, everyone else on the list has at least one ring.

  104. flash1283 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:43 AM

    Then here is the question, what do you base your opinion on when saying “one of the best ever”?

    If you take away the 3 SB rings and the 5 SB appearances what determines it?

    Brady,
    4th all-time in passing yards
    5th all-time in TD passes
    343 TD’s to 129 int’s – best ever TD to int ratio
    17-7 Brady led team playoff record (best all time, passing Montana)
    142-41 Brady led team best win % all time (and I say that for the people who say it’s a team game even though the NFL has an official stat for QB W/L)
    The only player in the NFL to ever win a unanimous MVP
    2 of the greatest seasons statistically ever for a QB
    38 4TH comebacks since 2001 tied w/manning.

    And the list goes on….

    As for the argument that he wins because of the division, look at the division Montana played in when they won.
    Also those teams Montana had also had top 5 D’s on all those SB wining teams.

  105. gochargersgo says: Oct 30, 2013 11:44 AM

    What amazes me is that people dont see the flaws in their own arguments. You call 2007 SB the greatest choke of all time, and thus a reason Brady is not really great. Problem? By calling it the GOAT choke, you are acknowledging that Brady led an all time great team that season. I also love the part “if he didnt win those THREE superbowls early in his career, wed be singing a different tune”. Brilliant. Thats like saying “man, if that guy didnt play great for half his career, he wouldnt have been that great.” Brady has been to five superbowls and 7 AFC championships. Find me anyone not named Joe Montana with a resume like that .

  106. thebiblestudent says: Oct 30, 2013 11:53 AM

    Doesn’t that also mean that the back-up quarterbacks (who didn’t play in the Super Bowl, but got a ring) are just as good as the QB who started?

  107. salmen76 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:55 AM

    I agree with Ben. It’s all about the championships boys. I don’t care about stats. I don’t buy hats and jerseys and tickets and flags and jackets and t-shirts and scream myself “hoarse” on Sundays for stats. Stats are just rubbish. Stats are only useful for fantasy football; ya get that “fantasy”. Ha ha. Geaux Saints!

  108. FlashPatterson says: Oct 30, 2013 11:56 AM

    He’s only saying that because he has 2.

  109. woogie242000 says: Oct 30, 2013 11:57 AM

    Reality check. You can not in fairness name Brady the QB because of Spygate. I understand most fans tend to ignore spygate but Brady won three Super Bowls because of it. When you list Brady accomplishments you have to account for spygate if we as sports fan are going to say A Rod accomplishments are tinted because of steroids and Barry Bonds accomplishments are tinted because of steroids. The same has to be said Brady and the rest of the Pats

    Just a thought

  110. kingpel says: Oct 30, 2013 11:58 AM

    I think Super Bowl appearances is a better way to gauge it. Once you get to the big game anything can happen, but you are going to need your QB to play well to survive the playoffs. You lead your team through the NFL tournament and you’ve done something.

  111. steelersaregodsteam says: Oct 30, 2013 12:08 PM

    This is why we have six rings, and you don’t.

  112. urbusted2 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:09 PM

    Football is still a team game the last I checked. TEAMS are judged by rings they receive as an unit. As the old saying goes: The Quarterback often receives too much credit when a team wins, and too much blame when a team loses.
    I will say that there has never been a QB as gifted in the acting department as Ben Roethlisberger. I do think he’s a tough guy, but he wants everyone to know it as well. This guy can take a boo boo and make it look like he’s walking on a broken leg.

  113. baltimoresnativeson says: Oct 30, 2013 12:19 PM

    Rings aren’t the only factor. But a big factor. So yes I would take Brady over Manning.

    Manning is the greatest REGULAR season qb however. Very mediocre in the playoffs though.

  114. golforepar says: Oct 30, 2013 12:21 PM

    Big Ben needs to get in line for concussion testing! Football is a team game, how can anyone not have Dan Marino in the top tier of QBs ever!!
    What does a QB have to with the defense? Defense sometimes has won a SB all by itself, so the QB on that team should be considered one of the best ever? FAIL!!

  115. johnnybgood19 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:23 PM

    Joemontanaflacco said:Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Actually, QBs are judged by how many times they were named Superbowl MVP, so Flacco is better than Roethlisbooger.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That means Randy White is just as good a QB as Flacco?????

  116. johnnybgood19 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:27 PM

    BTW…. I believe we can all agree that love him or hate him Brady is a great QB and will go down as one of the best the NFL has ever seen…. top 20 for sure…

  117. chazatlas says: Oct 30, 2013 12:28 PM

    Thanks Ben for clearing the criteria up. It all comes down to the rings.

  118. dlightner13 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:35 PM

    So basically this is bens way of saying he is the 2nd best active qb… better then peyton or aaron or drew… what an idiot.. qbs don’t win super bowls.. teams do

  119. sbc85 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:44 PM

    peytonalwayschokes says: Oct 30, 2013 10:12 AM
    Why does this Brady debate always bring out the Pats haters? He’s won 3 Super Bowls, he is 159-48 all time (17-7 in the ‘loffs) and yeah he’s put up some stinkers but so has literally every QB.
    Look at Peyton and his choke jobs
    Look at ARodge getting smoked by the Giants
    Look at Brees, lost like 11 games last year
    Look at Flacco, he wasn’t special until last year
    Look at Roth has I believe the worst QB rating in a Super Bowl all time
    Look at Eli, he can’t even make the ‘loffs and has been one and done 3 times.
    The bottom line is that he is the most consistent QB year in and year out and he deserves the BEST label even if he isn’t perfect – no one is.

    ====
    You’re right, no one is perfect. I think the main argument is that the number of Super Bowl rings is not what makes Tom Brady the best, because those are team wins. Obviously he contributed to that, but Marino was a great QB who never got a ring. All the examples you listed above except for maybe Joe Flacco have a lot to do with the teams those QBs had around them – for instance, 2012 Drew Brees threw the most TDs and yards of anyone, but he had the worst defense ever. Hard to overcome that, but it’s a TEAM sport. The same goes for Brady, he’s had bad times but obviously he is one of the best. You can argue that Brady is the best for other reasons, but if it was based on Super Bowl rings, Roethelisberger must think he is better than Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, which is a laughable notion.

  120. zack2482 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:50 PM

    Brady has played his whole career in the AFC East. Enough said….

  121. urbusted2 says: Oct 30, 2013 12:58 PM

    steelersaregodsteam says:
    Oct 30, 2013 12:08 PM
    This is why we have six rings, and you don’t.

    WOW! are they sending fans rings now? Cool!

  122. mustardtits says: Oct 30, 2013 1:01 PM

    By his logic, Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino

  123. jasonculhane says: Oct 30, 2013 1:01 PM

    This is like the old cliché saying when there were no other forms of measurements like statistics out there. People in the 60’s would say “Championships measure success”…Its all they had.

    How do ya know those championships Brady won weren’t tampered with? Patriots videotaped their opposition illegally. Just ask Marshall Faulk, “those guys knew plays and formations at the goaline we’ve never run before, checked out of them”….They did all this investigation in baseball with steroids but when it came to the biggest frauds of them all the NFL swept it right under the rug and actually destroyed the evidence without seeing it…

  124. ratsfoiledagain says: Oct 30, 2013 1:12 PM

    lalaunch says:
    Oct 30, 2013 9:47 AM
    If David Tyree and Manningham don’t make those great plays then Brady has 5.
    *****************
    If Adam Ainatieri misses two FG’s Brady is 1-4 in the super bowl.

  125. azarkhan says: Oct 30, 2013 1:14 PM

    Of course Brady is one of the best ever, not only in playoffs but also in the regular season. End of discussion.

  126. indywilson40 says: Oct 30, 2013 1:16 PM

    Pats fans hate to hear the truth, but ZERO rings since spygate is the elephant in the room.

  127. crownofthehelmet says: Oct 30, 2013 1:19 PM

    Ben is so wise and honest, it’s almost scary.

  128. patriotinvasion says: Oct 30, 2013 1:19 PM

    seadan1973 says: Oct 30, 2013 10:46 AM

    Brady isn’t in the “best QB” discussion until he wins after spy gate! That is the only way he puts that controversy behind him. Pats fans may not like reading that but it’s true.

    They got caught cheating, I tend to think that the slight edge they had with cheating, was just enough to put them over the top.

    Don’t wanna hear spy gate?? Win now..
    ___

    Then give me the same exact defense we had in 2003 and 2004, the same coaches, the same coordinators, and then let’s see what happens pre and post intern holding a camera. Oh wait, we can’t go back in time? Then “haven’t win anything since spygate” is not a fair argument if we can’t try with the same teams that won those rings.

  129. jrebar88 says: Oct 30, 2013 1:21 PM

    gochargersgo says:
    Oct 30, 2013 11:44 AM
    What amazes me is that people dont see the flaws in their own arguments. You call 2007 SB the greatest choke of all time, and thus a reason Brady is not really great. Problem? By calling it the GOAT choke, you are acknowledging that Brady led an all time great team that season. I also love the part “if he didnt win those THREE superbowls early in his career, wed be singing a different tune”. Brilliant. Thats like saying “man, if that guy didnt play great for half his career, he wouldnt have been that great.” Brady has been to five superbowls and 7 AFC championships. Find me anyone not named Joe Montana with a resume like that .
    ———-
    John Elway

  130. nyjetsfan08 says: Oct 30, 2013 1:22 PM

    The way I see it, Brady and the Pats win another SB and Brady surpasses Montana, but not by much. Montana was perfect in the post-season. Joe ‘Cool’ was amazing.

    There’s a book on Brady called “Tom Brady Vs The NFL…” that discusses his greatness compared to some of the best QBs in history.

    In the modern era (’78 and onward), I think he’s surpassed Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Brett Favre, and Steve Young, some by the slimmest of margins. I mean, wow, Steve Young was amazing.

    Prior to the modern era, it’s harder to distinguish. Baugh? Luckman? Graham? Starr? Unitas?

    I do think he’s better than Tittle, Tarkenton, Bradshaw, and Starbach and Plunkett.

  131. jnbnet says: Oct 30, 2013 1:40 PM

    woogie242000 says:
    Oct 30, 2013 11:57 AM
    Reality check. You can not in fairness name Brady the QB because of Spygate. I understand most fans tend to ignore spygate but Brady won three Super Bowls because of it. When you list Brady accomplishments you have to account for spygate if we as sports fan are going to say A Rod accomplishments are tinted because of steroids and Barry Bonds accomplishments are tinted because of steroids. The same has to be said Brady and the rest of the Pats

    Just a thought

    —————————————————-
    Wrong! The rule which banned filming from the sideline went into effect AFTER the Patritos won their 3 titles. Filming legally continues, but now it is from designated areas.

  132. apkyletexas says: Oct 30, 2013 1:47 PM

    1. YES. (Eli better than Peyton)
    2. No. (Dilfer was not better than Marino, although Marino generally sucked in the playoffs, but he does get credit for his first great playoff run when the Dolphins lost to the 9ers in the Super Bowl)
    3. YES. (Plunkett better than Favre – clearly you never watched Plunkett in his prime. Plunkett at his best was amazing)
    4. Yes. (Flacco better than Tarkington – if you never saw Plunkett, then you probably never saw Tarkington either. He wasn’t really special. His teams won on the backs of 4 Hall-of-Fame worthy defensive linemen)

    You just named a bunch of great regular season qb’s who have sucked under pressure in the playoffs. I don’t care about the regular season – it’s what you do in January and February that counts.

    Remember that Reggie Jackson was Mr. October, and Dave Winfield was Mr. May? There was a reason for that.

  133. RE LEE says: Oct 30, 2013 1:47 PM

    Brady’s stats stinks this year but when Brett Favre says brady’s performance is the most impressive he has so far and that brady is that good even with that kind of stats then you know brady is the real deal. He certainly is up there with the best. It’s not just the ring. It’s when you carry your hapless team on your back and eke out improbable wins. Brady is good even when he is bad. He has the respect of his peers. That, more than the stats or the rings is the hardest of all to win.

  134. aronharris94 says: Oct 30, 2013 1:49 PM

    Leave it to NBC to turn this into an issue. All Ben was doing was giving credit to Brady. Ben has never gotten caught up in the whole who’s the best in the NFL conversation. He’s even said that that he’ll never win passing titles or MVP’s but his goal is to get more championships. Whats left out of the article is when Ben says “He’s got great vision, he’s got big arm strength, a great understanding of offense and defense”, and goes on to talk about leading his team to 6-2 with no name receivers. While he does note the important of championships, he gives credit to his skills as a quarterback. This wasn’t Ben trying to be self- serving, a lot of players feel this way.

  135. dennisofletcher says: Oct 30, 2013 1:51 PM

    I have much more respect for Big Ben now.
    Yes, regardless what you so-called ‘experts’ state, it IS all about the rings you have. Honestly, are you going to sit there and present a debate for me that Fouts, Marino, Tarkenton, Kelly, Kosar, Jaworski, and Moon would be your picks on a championship team?
    I don’t think so.
    Sports are played for one purpose only.
    To win Championships.
    Period.
    I’ll take an Eli over a Peyton anyday. Championship quarterbacks are the ones who produce in the clutch, not glorifying their stats when necessary.
    Oh, you can pull all the stats out of your behind until the cows come home but the only thing people remember are the championships. Elway wouldn’t even be talked about until he got his monkey off his back.
    AND, I am a big time Jim Kelly and Kurt Warner fan but even I have to concede… Jim Plunkett has two rings. Compared to his peers that have none.
    Out…

  136. scoobies05 says: Oct 30, 2013 1:52 PM

    its an impossible arguement. everyone has different criteria. if marino had won one superbowl, he would probably be considered the best ever. football is the ultimate team sport, but qbs get all the credit and blame. in todays nfl, you need strong qb play more than you did even 10-15 years ago when brad johnson and trent dilfer were sb winners. but if its all about rings, would that make charles haley the best fotball player ever

  137. judsonjr says: Oct 30, 2013 1:52 PM

    blue18hutthutt covered alot, but also forgot the AFC championship game for the 2003 season.

    90 seconds left, 3rd and goal from the 6, Pats up 7, Colts have no timeouts left. So basically the Pats need to run 40 seconds off the clock, kick a 25 yard FG and seal the win.

    Instead, Brady goes outside and tries to run the ball in and coughs it up. It was only dumb luck that his knee hit a split second before the ball came out.

  138. kev86 says: Oct 30, 2013 1:54 PM

    Let’s not take things TOO literally. Ben makes a decent points but they can be taken out of context and twisted into nonsense.

    Personally, I’d take Eli, his wins, his durability and his two rings over most.

    You probably wont agree if your QQ is good and has ZERO championships. There are a lot of them.

  139. whatjusthapped says: Oct 30, 2013 1:54 PM

    New England Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh should mentioned in the same breadth as Brady because Tom owes much success to him as he does his defense.

  140. jetsjetsjetsnow says: Oct 30, 2013 1:58 PM

    My formula that would have to be crunched to determine who the best is/was…

    REGULAR SEASON(each category would have to have a cetain weighting)
    -Season Wins
    -Leading Q4 Game winning Drives
    -Completing clutch plays during game time situations
    -#1st Down Conversions
    -Individual Stats
    -Consistency
    -Team Leadership

    PLAYOFFS (Deserves higher weightings than regular season!!!)
    -All the above regular season categories but now just playoff games
    -Playoff game appearances
    -Playoff game wins
    -Playoff team leadership & Consistency
    -Super Bowl Appearances
    -Super Bowl wins

    In my generation Joe Montana & Terry Bradshaw would have to be at the top of the list. Tom Brady* would be somewhere in the top 20 percentile of QBs.

  141. j0esixpack says: Oct 30, 2013 1:59 PM

    Brady’s not only won 3 Super Bowls

    He’s taken his team to 5 (in just a 10 year period)

    You can’t complete every pass or win every game – but 5 Super Bowls in a career is outstanding

    Is there any active QB who even comes close to this????

  142. u4iadman says: Oct 30, 2013 2:02 PM

    This was so accurately researched and written I had to post it again. Credit to the OP:

    Honestly, [Brady’s} his post-season resume has been very Peyton Manning-esque since he won his last Superbowl on the backs of some elite Ds

    2005 – back breaking pick 6 in the redzone with the game in the balance

    2006 – should’ve thrown a game-ending interception but Troy Brown rips the fumble to give him a second chance – eventually does get a chance to throw a season ending interception following week against the Colts while giving up a 21 point lead

    2007 – greatest choke job of all time, bar none. “We’re only going to score 17 points?” turns out Plax was being generous. Barely beat a crippled Chargers team while throwing 3 INTs against a zero-ACL Rivers. Led team to season low output in points (to say the least) after averaging 30

    2009 – completely annihialated by Ravens – got some nice garbage time stats with the game well out of reach. Led team to season low output in points

    2010 – completely abused all game by the Jets D, started hearing footsteps and auto-sacking himself. Got some nice garbage time TDs against a prevent D that make the game look closer than it really was. Led team to season low output in points

    2011 – lost to Giants in Superbowl once again. Should’ve lost the previous week after throwing 0TD and 2INT against the Ravens. Threw a horrible 4th Q interception in the Superbowl by trying to do his best Eli-imitation, overthrew Welker to ice the game and missed open receivers throwing behind them. Once again led team to season low output in points

    2012 – completely shutdown by Ravens D and once again led team to season low output in points

    If Brady hadn’t won 3 Superbowls in his early years (mostly because of his D), we would be talking about him as this generation’s Dan Marino, who can’t win the big one

    Thumbs down this all you want Pats fans but it doesn’t change the inconvenient truth

  143. tcmiller30 says: Oct 30, 2013 2:04 PM

    The strangest part of all of this to me is that Tom “The greatest clutch QB of all time!!!” Brady seems to have post season stats very similar to Peyton “Choke Job” Manning. Which guy would you rather have? There’s a wild card thrown in there for fun as well.

    QB A: 62.7% completions, 2.2 TD/INT ratio, 95.6 QB Rating, 251 ypg

    QB B: 62.3% completions, 1.9 TD/INT ratio, 87.4 QB Rating, 248 ypg.

    QB V: 63.2% completions, 1.5 TD/INT ratio, 88.4 QB Rating, 284 ypg.

    That’s weird. For having two completely different media driven post-season performance stigma’s.. It’s tough to tell who’s who.

    For those of you playing at home. QB A = Montana. QB B = Tom Brady. QB C = Peyton Manning.

  144. mrplow3 says: Oct 30, 2013 2:06 PM

    “But, frankly, that’s ridiculous. Does anyone seriously believe Roethlisberger and Eli Manning are better quarterbacks than Peyton Manning? And does Roethlisberger also think Trent Dilfer was a better quarterback than Dan Marino? ”

    I hate this argument. It’s intellectually dishonest.

    Sure you can get one fluke ring when someone like Dilfer gets carried by one of the best D’s of all time, BUT NOT 3 RINGS.

    It’s absolutely a valid argument to Brady’s superiority over Manning. He has three championships. Show me another fluke QB in NFL history with your weak Dilfer argument that has 3+ rings.

    I don’t like Ben, but he’s 100% correct.

  145. patriotsarespygaters says: Oct 30, 2013 2:10 PM

    Karma is A B1Tch
    NOW Patriots are insecure because they are
    #CHEATERS
    #SPYGATE (0-2 in SB’s since no cameras)
    18-1 CHOKERS
    WELKER made BRADY now BRADY sucks and is among the worst QB’s in the league
    all pats players are made of glass
    They are the worst 6-2 team in NFL history

  146. ryanreitsma says: Oct 30, 2013 2:28 PM

    Does anyone actually take anything that comes out of this guy’s mouth seriously? He should go back to drinking like a champion instead of doing interviews.

  147. winorlose6burgh says: Oct 30, 2013 2:31 PM

    Big Ben! Best Qb in the league no Qb can play behind the line he does and still get big plays and did we mention he has 2 rings!? And over paid Joe will only get 1 ring why u ask? Cause he’s a bum!!! Ratbirds

  148. steelcurtainn says: Oct 30, 2013 2:33 PM

    Big Ben is one of the best qbs in the league. If he can only better help on offense something he practically haven’t had since he’s been in the league. Amazingly, he has 2 superbowl wins to show for.

  149. Joemontanaflacco says: Oct 30, 2013 2:51 PM

    johnnybgood19 says:
    Oct 30, 2013 12:23 PM
    Joemontanaflacco said:Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Actually, QBs are judged by how many times they were named Superbowl MVP, so Flacco is better than Roethlisbooger.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That means Randy White is just as good a QB as Flacco?????

    ———————————————-

    You got it! When someone is named SB MVP, they automatically become a QB, regardless of the position they actually play. I can’t believe you’re the only one to figure that out. Steelers’ fan, right?

  150. bensstinkyfingers says: Oct 30, 2013 3:09 PM

    Yeah, The rings shouldn’t qualify as QB rankings, considering Ben’s.Dilfer etc. really had little to do with their performance,as more for their defense, and teammates. Ben’s first two years are what made him relevant for a short time. Now he is grasping at straws to make people believe he should be a starting Qb. for the next few years. He is done, and the steelers will not make the playoffs again until he is replaced, as well as many other aged vets, and holes filled. Rebuild is only thing that will turn them from the turds of the AFC North to relevant. Nice try at sounding intelligent though Ruthlessburger.

  151. gavriloprincip33 says: Oct 30, 2013 3:16 PM

    Since rings don’t matter, Romo and Marino are the best QB’s ever…SMH

  152. mightyminer says: Oct 30, 2013 3:19 PM

    By this logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, George Blanda, Warren Moon and Jim Kelly.

  153. patriotinvasion says: Oct 30, 2013 3:20 PM

    Is there any worse argument against the Patriots than “o-2 since spygate!”? If the Patriots had gone 6-10 every year and just fell apart, you’d have a case. But, getting within 1 play of winning 2 of the past 6 Super Bowls is not helping your cause haters.

    Not to mention having better offensive stats and a better overall record since. The only difference between pre/post 2007 is the Patriots defense was MUCH better when they won and has been average from 2007 on. Teams win Super Bowls.

  154. bengalskuta82 says: Oct 30, 2013 3:32 PM

    Hate to agree with Big Ben but it is true. Its about the Rings. The media goes by how pretty you throw the ball.

  155. warhammer420 says: Oct 30, 2013 3:35 PM

    Totally disagree.

    mightyminer said it best… “By this logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, George Blanda, Warren Moon and Jim Kelly.”

  156. beerndrums says: Oct 30, 2013 3:36 PM

    Someone should whisper in ‘Big Bens ‘ ear that Brady cheated
    .

  157. doe22us says: Oct 30, 2013 3:41 PM

    9/21 123 yards 2 ints.. ouch, now he did play better his second go around (anywhere to go but up right). He had a top notch D in both super bowls. To attribute super bowl rings to equal greatness may be a little self serving. Barkley doesnt have a ring but I can name a bunch of no name scrubs that have NBA championships. By his logic Brad Johnson is an elite QB, get the h,,, out of town.

  158. Nofoolnodrool says: Oct 30, 2013 3:45 PM

    Joemontanaflacco says:
    Oct 30, 2013 2:51 PM
    johnnybgood19 says:
    Oct 30, 2013 12:23 PM
    Joemontanaflacco said:Oct 30, 2013 9:41 AM

    Actually, QBs are judged by how many times they were named Superbowl MVP, so Flacco is better than Roethlisbooger.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That means Randy White is just as good a QB as Flacco?????

    ———————————————-

    You got it! When someone is named SB MVP, they automatically become a QB, regardless of the position they actually play. I can’t believe you’re the only one to figure that out. Steelers’ fan, right?

    0 1 Nice try to recover from your stupid MVP comparison, but you failed skippy…oh by the way don’t forget the ravens lost to the lousy steelers .

  159. getyourownname says: Oct 30, 2013 4:19 PM

    People may scoff at Ben for using a stat that ensures he would be part of the group, but that’s silly.

    If he had wanted to do that, he would have used the criterion how much the QB outweighs his average OL. Jamarcus would approve, too.

  160. kingkornkahn says: Oct 30, 2013 4:41 PM

    So Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino and Dan Marino is about as good as Einstein, who has also never been able to win the superbowl. Way to go Einstein.

  161. rpmcanes says: Oct 30, 2013 4:51 PM

    Pats fans hate to hear the truth, but ZERO rings since spygate is the elephant in the room.

    The only place you’ll see that ‘in the room’ is on these message boards because it’s not even there due to that being a totally inaccurate statement. The Patriots are 0-2 since 2004, which incidentally is the same year both coordinators left, Ty Law left, Tedy Bruschi had a stroke, etc.

  162. Deb says: Oct 30, 2013 5:16 PM

    Well, I agree with Ben to a point:

    Brady, in my opinion, is the best quarterback currently in the league. But I’d put Peyton such a close second it’s almost impossible to see daylight between them. The number of championships is only one factor in determining greatness. MDS is right. If you make that the sole measuring stick, you’d have to say Dilfer was better than Marino, Roethlisberger better than Peyton, and Eli better than Favre. It just isn’t so.

  163. pongonfl says: Oct 30, 2013 6:47 PM

    Kind of a self serving observation by Ben.

  164. frank booth says: Oct 30, 2013 11:27 PM

    steelersaregodsteam says: Oct 30, 2013 12:08 PM

    This is why we have six rings, and you don’t
    ==================================

    Do you play for the Steelers? You said “we”. Congratulation on your six rings. Do you generally wear them all at the same time?

  165. Savage Lizard says: Oct 31, 2013 2:59 AM

    Hilarious listening to people hold Eli Manning up as such a great clutch QB. If Assante Samuel and Wes Welker catch balls that hit them in the freaking hands Eli is 0-2 in the Super Bowl.

  166. BringBackTheFlex says: Oct 31, 2013 5:50 PM

    Savage Lizard says:
    Hilarious listening to people hold Eli Manning up as such a great clutch QB. If Assante Samuel and Wes Welker catch balls that hit them in the freaking hands Eli is 0-2 in the Super Bowl.

    ————————-
    If the 9er’s return man holds on to one of those two returns, or if the 9er’s DBs hang on to one of those 2 INTs that Eli threw right to them, the Giants are only in one SB. What Manning had to do with that I’ll never know.

  167. BringBackTheFlex says: Oct 31, 2013 6:00 PM

    Roethlisberger has to say that. Look at what a great SB QB HE is:

    9/21 for 123 yards, 43% comp, 0 TDs, 2 INTs

    Yeah, those SB winning QBs sure are great! Helps to have the #4 and #1 defense bail your butt out too.

  168. Savage Lizard says: Oct 31, 2013 6:23 PM

    “If the 9er’s return man holds on to one of those two returns, or if the 9er’s DBs hang on to one of those 2 INTs that Eli threw right to them, the Giants are only in one SB. What Manning had to do with that I’ll never know.”

    Both times the Giants made the playoffs they barely squeaked in, and then got on a roll. If Eli is so awesome, why did the Giants need every other team in the NFC East to eat it in order for them to make the playoffs?

    And anyone who thinks Eli is better than Peyton just because 2 is a bigger number than 1 is just too dumb to even try to explain this stuff to.

  169. Deb says: Oct 31, 2013 9:04 PM

    Ah, frank booth, my long-lost CFT spouse and bowling partner. Good to see you again, but must you be so nit-pickey? Fans, even when they don’t have Green Bay stock certificates, do share ownership of their teams. The bought their bits and pieces with years of ticket and merchandise money, blood, sweat, and tears. I am one with my college and pro teams. And I am not alone in feeling that connection.

  170. nygrwy says: Nov 1, 2013 11:23 AM

    Brady will never win another Super Bowl. I am a Giants fan and love to watch the patriots and Tom Brady play. However homeboy cannot handle any type of pressure. He is a deer in head lights when the pass rush is coming from him.

    Its actually sad to see his name in top 5 sits on NFL network for fantasy. Guess everyones time comes eventually

  171. igotsanduskied says: Nov 2, 2013 10:34 AM

    How come the Bart Starr people conveniently forget to mention Otto Graham? If we’re gonna go past the Super Bowl era, then Graham is > Starr because he won 7 titles.

  172. dolbythomas says: Nov 4, 2013 7:30 PM

    yea well Montana is the greatest ever

  173. gallopinggilmore says: Nov 5, 2013 9:53 AM

    Big Ben, I can go with that but not being wreckless with the ball and throwing it all over the place when your OC wants you to run helps too.

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