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NFL still might disclose 2015 PSI summaries

footballs Getty Images

One year ago tonight, acting on a complaint from Colts G.M. Ryan Grigson, the NFL decided to test the air pressure of the footballs used by the Patriots in the AFC championship game.

The readings, generated by gauges that varied by roughly 0.5 PSI, showed that the Patriots’ footballs consistently were below the minimum of 12.5, the number to which the balls were set before the game. It later became clear that the NFL didn’t realize as the measurements were being made that a basic scientific principle known as the Ideal Gas Law resulted in the pressure dropping as the footballs went from a warm environment to a cold one at Gillette Stadium.

And so the misinformed, knee-jerk presumption of cheating poisoned the process from the get go. False information regarding the actual numbers created a presumption among the media and fans that someone did something they shouldn’t have done, setting the stage for a scorched-earth Ted Wells investigation that inevitably cobbled together enough pieces of circumstantial evidence to justify what appeared to be a predetermined conclusion.

Armed with unprecedented knowledge that weather conditions may indeed take the footballs used in a given game out of compliance with the 12.5-to-13.5 PSI range (both due to cold and due to heat), the NFL opted not to gather in 2015 exhaustive data for the purposes of understanding what happens when the temperature is 90 degrees or 9, and everything in between and beyond. Instead, the league has opted to use only a random testing procedure, periodically removing footballs from service at halftime for testing, and then testing the replacements at the end of the game.

The league has not yet committed to making any of the PSI information public. However, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the league may be releasing a summary of the data between the conference title games and the Super Bowl.

Without the raw numbers, few will put much stock in the summaries. Then again, the only way anyone would believe that summitries or raw numbers are accurate is if they undermine the notion that the measurements generated one year ago tonight suggest cheating.

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285 Responses to “NFL still might disclose 2015 PSI summaries”
  1. skooter519 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:17 PM

    I wonder if the Pats will get their draft picks back and an apology from Roger Goofball.

  2. bleck5 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:17 PM

    The NFL wont release them because they know they made a fool of themselves AGAIN.

  3. exodus316 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:19 PM

    They are going to release “summaries” in the two weeks before the Super Bowl? How would that not be anything other than an attempt to again make this story the main topic of discussion? Blatant attempt to control the narrative.

  4. newtonfb22 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:19 PM

    With the testing being random they can pick out the numbers that favors them because the public doesnt know which games were tested and which were not. They should have done the test for every game and released the information for every game.

  5. ly008 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM

    Well said, Mike.

  6. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM

    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts

  7. alan226 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM

    The NFL will only release the results if they are bad for the Patriots. Otherwise, the Patriots will be looking for their draft picks back. And rightfully so…..

  8. patsfiend says: Jan 18, 2016 8:24 PM

    At 2am on a Saturday morning via a press release sent by carrier pigeon to a mailbox on Park Ave. The numbers don’t lie, and they exonerate the Pats. Bring it on, d-bags.

  9. aljack88 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:24 PM

    You forgot to mention that 3 of the 4 Colts’ that were tested were also below the minimum.

  10. dickshotdogs says: Jan 18, 2016 8:24 PM

    And I’ll provide the crow, Rog.

  11. pauldeba says: Jan 18, 2016 8:25 PM

    they will never have documented pre-game measurements, which gauge, time in the warm room or room temperature from last year’s AFC Finalist Participant game, so this info will be worthless

  12. truthprofessor says: Jan 18, 2016 8:25 PM

    The procedure that thy used is also very important.

    My guess is that the NFL had the balls pumped up to 13 inside at room temperature, pregame.

    Teams then played with the footballs outside in the cold for a half.

    Then they took them back inside. But not for immediate pressure measurement, rather to let them sit inside for hours while they warm all the way back up to room temperature, while the 2nd half was played with the backup footballs.

    Thus… voila! No loss of psi!

    Then they will say with a straight face “playing with footballs outside in the cold has no effect on PSI”.

    The haters will eat it up.

    Those with a brain will say “but wait… PSI goes down with temperature, so they should have measured PSI while the footballs were still cold, as they did in the Jan 2015 AFCCG.

    Then those with a brain will be completely ignored.

  13. rolf1015 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:25 PM

    This was all supposed to be about the “Integrity of the Game”. If that is so important then they need to release ALL the numbers to show transparency. Even then, I will be skeptical as this really should have been done by an independent party that can be trusted, not by the NFL as they have lied throughout this ordeal.

  14. redrew says: Jan 18, 2016 8:25 PM

    We already know the NFL will not be releasing an honest comparison. Prior to this year, balls were inflated indoors and then brought to the field. Deflation in cold weather due to the ideal gas laws was a certainty to all except NFL officials). This year, ball inflation takes place outdoors and therefore no cooling will occur on cold days. The NFL will present data that shows no PSI reduction. Once again, the NFL has manipulated the process to achieve their desired conclusion. Get ready for the NFL partners like ESPNFL to immediately accept the NFL’s manufactured data.

  15. rideforjesus says: Jan 18, 2016 8:25 PM

    Ok random testing whenever and where ever they chose.

    Sounds fair when you want data.

    But oh wait…… they could have made it a requirement across the league and gotten over 672 PSI readings from every team…..every game … Based on 42 footballs a game checked…. before and midway and after that means 3 test points per ball…..they could have had over 2016 data points per game.

    Say on a conservative approach they measure 12 games a weekend…..That gives them 24192 data readings each and every weekend if 14 teams play.

    Then they could have over 387072 data points for the whole season.

    That amount of data could determine if PSI levels change.

    They had the means, the equipment, the people and the potential for incredible amounts of data.
    But… they didn’t…. and now they say they will release data… I bet you that the data will be under 10000 readings…. At best.

  16. smasonsmith says: Jan 18, 2016 8:26 PM

    Unless they release the raw numbers (including temperature and timing data) and the procedure followed, the summary is worthless.

  17. docsmith54 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:26 PM

    NFL: “Summaries”
    Jim Mora: “Playoffs?”
    NOAA: satellite temperature data is wrong

    Anyone else?

  18. marima07 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:28 PM

    Roger Goodell has used the word integrity more than anyone else, and yet he has generated more distrust and cynicism against the league than any previous commissioner.

  19. avengers2014 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:30 PM

    “However, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the league may be releasing a summary of the data between the conference title games and the Super Bowl.”

    “May” being the operative word which depends on two things.

    1. The Patriots winning the conference Championship.

    2. The ability to skew and cherry pick the data to make the Patriots look poorly.

    After release of the transcripts of Brady’s testimony, it is clear the league will never release anything that does not fit it’s agenda.

  20. thundersnacker says: Jan 18, 2016 8:33 PM

    The numbers will only be released if the Pats are in the super bowl …and the methodology with which those numbers were generated will be suspect.

    Heck, it generated great ratings last year, why not another smear campaign? It’s not like the general public gives any time to critical thinking (or reading comprehension) anyways.

  21. dansardo says: Jan 18, 2016 8:34 PM

    The scientific community has already fully debunked the wells “bag job” quite a while ago, no need to continue rehashing this.

  22. patsfan56 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:35 PM

    Trying this again..Heeree we GO. Instead of talking football, Roger wants to make this a focal point to disrupt the Patriots and AGAIN ruin all our fans enjoy watching the revenge tour speed ahead! Roger-get a job..

  23. Ralphie says: Jan 18, 2016 8:36 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    _____________________________

    You seem to care. Hovering over every story that’s posted about the Pats with your baited breath comments. Yeah, you REALLY care. It’s eating you up. You can’t get it out of your head. Time to get a life. Ha ha.

  24. ricko1112 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:38 PM

    This is pretty simple. If you still believe NE tampered with the footballs, you’re pretty simple.

    Science, common sense, the Wells Report, and a trial have thoroughly debunked this whole Deflategate nonsense. It didn’t happen. In fact, there are only about 12 people on Earth who still believe Deflategate was real!

    Of course the NFL isn’t going to release any data. What kind of fool thinks they would?

    The NFL is too busy scheming to help Manning win in his final year!

  25. bencoates57 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:38 PM

    The NFL will wait for the Patriots to qualify for the Super Bowl and then announce only incriminating data.

  26. Cunning Linguist says: Jan 18, 2016 8:39 PM

    Anyone who trusts anything the league has to say on this subject needs to have their head examined.

  27. learysdisciples says: Jan 18, 2016 8:39 PM

    And now we have a Genius.

  28. nikki0220 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:43 PM

    The only reason the NFL would do this prior to the appeal hearing is if the data supports their case…so stay tuned for well report 2.0 with faulty calcs and illogical conclusions…

  29. patriots123456 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:44 PM

    They may have data, the real question is, who at 345 Park Ave. is intelligent enough to comprehend it?

    Remember they spent 5 million the first time and totally blew it.

  30. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:45 PM

    Kraft runs this blog.

  31. descendency says: Jan 18, 2016 8:46 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts

    ———-

    Even as an ignorant pats fan, I can admit that there are lots of things that look bad about the Patriots, but all I ask is that the NFL actually have proof of deflated footballs.

    You have lots of great points about things that they did that were suspicious.

    That said, the amount of pressure that the footballs “lost” (gauge pressure goes down due to change in temperature) as well as how poorly the league kept track of the gauges used – I don’t see how you can even say for certain that the Patriots deflated any footballs ever?

    I don’t care if you have the smoking gun at this point. I just want to see the body. There isn’t a body or even a missing person’s report at this point. There is just a bitter team in Indianapolis claiming that the Patriots like to do something.

    The league tried to pay 5 million dollars to get a “scientific report” that scientist around the world laughed at. That doesn’t mean the Patriots didn’t at some point deflate balls. All I ask is that the league show us those balls. At 70 degrees (for over a few hours). In a normal climate.

    If the league really cared about PSI, they would inflate/check the balls before the game on the sidelines instead of in an officials locker room where millions of fans can’t see and the temperature is likely to be different.

  32. dodgerlakerfan1969 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:47 PM

    factman66, so you’re all about the “facts” but the “fact” that psi data might reveal that there was never ball deflation is meaningless? That’s the definition of hypocrisy. Congratulations free thinker. You’re more like the sheep that Goodell wants you to be.

  33. weepingjebus says: Jan 18, 2016 8:47 PM

    Wouldn’t trust the numbers even if they did release them. After seeing how Exponent tried to disguise the significant differences between the two gauges so that the NFL could pretend it didn’t matter, the league has no credibility left on this at all. They didn’t understand the science from the start, and rather than admit it they lied to cover it up. Probably trying to get hired by the U.N.’s committee on climate change.

  34. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:47 PM

    I’m willing to bet that for every 1 real Pats fan on PFT there are 10 fake Pats fan comments. Cheaters to the core up there, I tell ya.

  35. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:49 PM

    How many Pats fans sockpuppet accounts exist here?
    Over/under 200

  36. godelligoodelligoo says: Jan 18, 2016 8:50 PM

    Goodell beleives in climate change?…dont think so!

  37. FinFan68 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:50 PM

    ^*drop this fiasco

  38. m8gaman says: Jan 18, 2016 8:50 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    ====================
    It’s hilarious that your name couldn’t be further from the truth!

  39. longlasting2824 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:51 PM

    NFL will save it for Super Bowl week if the Pats are in it, with cherry-picked data. Just to ‘distract’ the Pats. But I bet that worked out very well last year, NFL? (roll eyes)

  40. frogcooke says: Jan 18, 2016 8:52 PM

    As anyone with a brain knows its not so much the random measurement taken as the it is the proccess in which it was done.

    Room temps, outdoor temp, weather conditions (wet vs dry), psi, time psi taken, how long it was at temp before being tested. Etc etc.

    Its much more than a simple psi reading and i dont trust the nfl to not screw it up or only release data that benefits them.

  41. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 8:53 PM

    All Patriot Haters know absolutely nothing about football and just aren’t very bright.:)

    Discuss.

  42. redrew says: Jan 18, 2016 8:53 PM

    Mark Brunell is prepping his outrage followed by an extended cry

  43. riverhorsey says: Jan 18, 2016 8:53 PM

    “The readings, generated by gauges that varied by roughly 0.5 PSI, showed that the Patriots’ footballs consistently were below the minimum of 12.5.”

    Well what were the READINGS ?

    You guys are great at telling half the story. I feel like I might as well be reading the Enquirer

  44. redrew says: Jan 18, 2016 8:54 PM

    Goodell lied…Brunell cried

  45. 6thsense10 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:55 PM

    Does anyone think with the league appealing the delfategate ruling in court that they would do anything to jeopardize what little chance they think they have to prevail by releasing data that disputes their original accusations?

    None of the clowns from the league front office have any credibility with most fans….from lies told in bountygate, to lies told during the Ray Rice scandal, to the underhanded way they colluded to cap team salaries during an uncapped year…..the league has no credibility.

  46. thecape15 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:58 PM

    No matter what they do there will be variables.

    Where are the balls for the defensive team kept right before halftime? In a bag during rainy weather? That would impact the results.
    What about Cam Newton giving balls away? Those aren’t tested.
    Where will the balls be tested? Inside? So the last ball to be tested will have different PSI that it had on the field?

    And finally. Why did the refs leave the kicking footballs in the hotel room before the New England in Kansas City game? (They needed a state trooper to get them to the field on time.)

    Because nobody cared about footballs until this witchhunt began. And now they look like the Three Stooges trying to pull something together.

    Even in the NFL hates a winner.

  47. nflfan1 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:59 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    _____________________________
    You neglected to mention the FACT that Manning also lobbied for QBs to prep their footballs along with Brady. Please tell the whole story or apply for a job at ESPN where half reported truths are acceptable.

  48. Ralphie says: Jan 18, 2016 8:59 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:49 PM

    How many Pats fans sockpuppet accounts exist here?
    Over/under 200
    _________________________

    Somebody call a wambulance!

  49. plum54 says: Jan 18, 2016 8:59 PM

    The NFL already admitted in Federal court they had no evidence. In his 40 page decision Judge Berman quotes from the Wells / pash report the uncertainty any tampering occurred.
    There was no tampering!

  50. hivelocityimpactsplatter says: Jan 18, 2016 9:01 PM

    Oh boy, here comes the Patriots Internet Defense Team, in full jihad mode.

  51. Della Street says: Jan 18, 2016 9:02 PM

    weepingjebus says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:47 PM
    Wouldn’t trust the numbers even if they did release them. After seeing how Exponent tried to disguise the significant differences between the two gauges so that the NFL could pretend it didn’t matter, the league has no credibility left on this at all. They didn’t understand the science from the start, and rather than admit it they lied to cover it up. Probably trying to get hired by the U.N.’s committee on climate change.

    ______

    This, right here. The fact that Exponent manipulated the length of the gauges in the report, alone, is truly disgusting. An “unbiased,” “independent” report it certainly was not and every rational thinking person should be PO’d that the NFL is this dirty. And this is just a top of the iceberg in this ridiculous farce.

  52. rideforjesus says: Jan 18, 2016 9:02 PM

    Factman66……not sure what your trying to get done here.

    Why all the hate?

    Spygate… we paid the fine and lost the draft pick… biggest and largest fine and draft pick loss ever in the NFL up to that point in time.

    Now explain to me again spy gate bought the patriots what?

    Do you even know why the filmed from the location?
    do you even know what they tried to do with the data?

    Do you truly think that they were able to use it in game?

    No Factman66 they made the decision to film from the wrong place after being told not to….shame on them and they paid the price.

    Now explain to me since the taping stopped… how did we manage to go 16 & 0? Did the taping help us before?

    And if the deflating of a football stopped ( which I think didn’t stop because it is the law of physics) how did Tom Brady pass for more TD’s and more yards than anyone this year? Both were closely watched afterwards each year….

    Factman66… I ask you to truly look at the facts here and answer me back.

    Why all the hate? I am praying for ya….

  53. PanchoHerreraFanClub says: Jan 18, 2016 9:02 PM

    Of course the Pats cheated, it is a no brainier.

  54. smasonsmith says: Jan 18, 2016 9:03 PM

    “The readings, generated by gauges that varied by roughly 0.5 PSI, showed that the Patriots’ footballs consistently were below the minimum of 12.5.”

    Well what were the READINGS ?

    You guys are great at telling half the story. I feel like I might as well be reading the Enquirer
    ===
    That line you quoted is talking about the readings during the AFCCG last year.

  55. chesswhileyouplaycheckers says: Jan 18, 2016 9:04 PM

    Without truly independent testing overseen by someone the equivalent of a federal judge or the pope how could anyone believe a single number the league would release? The league has zero credibility

    Will Pash or Well$ get to edit that summary?

  56. dsigrey says: Jan 18, 2016 9:04 PM

    If the Pats best Denver they will release bogus numbers in an attemp to make the Pats look guilty and distract them from the task at hand.

  57. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:04 PM

    You know why we mock you Patriot Hater? Because your team – and by association you too – are simply not MAN enough to own your shortcomings. Period.

    Whining and crying and squealing like little weenies about those big bad mean Patriots instead of doing something about it, like working harder and smarter so you can compete with US on the field… and in the case of the fans… demanding better of your own team. I know if that was me that’s what I certainly would do.

    Keep it going girls.:) I just love thinking about your look of despair and rage as you come to this board and pound furiously on your keyboard when the World Champions keep piling up win after win after win after win after win…
    :)

  58. davew128 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:06 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    *********************
    Google predestination paradox and post back with results.

  59. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:06 PM

    I just don’t believe what the NFL has to say!😥😥😥😥😥
    — Me doing a Mark Brunell imitation reading this summary
    :)

  60. rootpain says: Jan 18, 2016 9:07 PM

    Boy I hate that “source with knowledge” thing. Why can’t the NFL just publish that sort of information directly and completely themselves.
    Anyway it’s anticlimactic. Everyone has already accepted the science that the NFL wasn’t previously aware of. And at this point no one believes anything that comes from the NFL.
    Three things the league can do to regain some of its integrity:
    1-Fire Goodell
    2-Cancel the appeal
    3-Return the team draft picks and Million dollars.
    Nothing less is acceptable and certainly releasing a summary of the data means nothing.

  61. stevegrogannakedbootleg says: Jan 18, 2016 9:11 PM

    Ohh please no accusations before the Superbowl
    cuz it worked so well last year

  62. dagator8888 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:11 PM

    Please quit with the Pats apologies. They cheated. Everyone knows it and it has been an issue for years. They have been caught so many times with their hand in the cookie jar that the explanations are ludicrous. Yes, weather affects balls, but for both teams not for only one! Combine that with the pages with “the deflator” and Brady destroying his phone just enforces that they are systemic and coordinated cheaters. Anyone that thinks having an underinflated football in rain or cold is not an advantage then they have never played the game. Check out Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis’s stats with Pats and with everyone else. His fumbles tell a story.

  63. pauldeba says: Jan 18, 2016 9:12 PM

    I hope they smugly release what they think indicts the Patriots only to be shredded for all the flaws and lack of conclusive info. My hole is along the lines of the next pope being catholic

  64. chesswhileyouplaycheckers says: Jan 18, 2016 9:13 PM

    TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:04 PM

    You know why we mock you Patriot Hater? Because your team – and by association you too – are simply not MAN enough to own your shortcomings. Period.

    Whining and crying and squealing like little weenies about those big bad mean Patriots instead of doing something about it, like working harder and smarter so you can compete with US on the field… and in the case of the fans… demanding better of your own team. I know if that was me that’s what I certainly would do.

    Keep it going girls. I just love thinking about your look of despair and rage as you come to this board and pound furiously on your keyboard when the World Champions keep piling up win after win after win after win after win…
    ———————————–

    As a lifelong Pats fan and season ticket holder since ’82 it pains me that people like this have attached themselves to the team I care about. Clowns like this give the rest of us a bad name

  65. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:14 PM

    Summary: We lied, Brunell cried, our appeal died and here are your draft picks and money back.
    :)

  66. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:15 PM

    Check out Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis’s stats with Pats and with everyone else. His fumbles tell a story.


    The delusion in Patriot Hater really is beyond comical. That’s why I love reading this board.
    :)

  67. mistrezzrachael says: Jan 18, 2016 9:16 PM

    Ya Sure…Not a shot they release them. They will release non binding summary.

    Funny…all summer we heard about how decresed PSI was the reason Brady passed so well…and the Patriots seldom fumbled, and how their rate was so far below the rest of the league.

    New rules, same results…where are all the PFT experts now??? Deflated?

  68. wahoo21 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:17 PM

    The NFL will issue a statement that the Ideal Gas Law does not exist and that a combination of Boyle’s law, Charles’s law and Avogadro’s Law has no place in the NFL

    King Roger Approves this statement

  69. dmc1542 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:18 PM

    The good thing about all this is it is a nice litmus test to gauge how dumb and gullible someone is. Truth is most pole think brady cheated. Most people are morons

  70. itsfootballfolks says: Jan 18, 2016 9:20 PM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:58 PM
    Kraft may not run this blog, but there is a moderator who’s Johnson is firmly inserted in Kraft’s pocket

    Ah, roger goodell and the kensil / pash tools so dislike it when they don’t get their way.

    Corrupt dictators always get their just comeuppance.

  71. jag1959 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:24 PM

    “However, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the league MAY be releasing a summary of the data between the conference title games and the Super Bowl.”

    “May be releasing a summary” provided Exponent can ‘massage’ the numbers to the desired outcome. Everybody remembers Well$ pet lab Exponent right? You know the one that ‘proved’ dumping oil waste in the Amazon, secondhand smoke, asbestos and crashing Toyotas were all safe. The one nofactsman would fit right in working for

    With Mort not available will it be Rappoport tweeting out an advance phony # this time?

  72. DennisT says: Jan 18, 2016 9:25 PM

    Who knows what the data might say, but can we not see through the timing of this story. The leagues pr assault continues. They couldnt wait a few weeks to leak this story?????

  73. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:26 PM

    As a lifelong Pats fan and season ticket holder since ’82 it pains me that people like this have attached themselves to the team I care about. Clowns like this give the rest of us a bad name

    —-
    No offense but the problem is you and many other Pats fans are treating this board as something it just isn’t and hasn’t been for a long time. There are much better places to discuss Patriot football and not have every topic being hijacked by the obvious. I just shake my head when I see long and well thought out replies to Patriot Hater drool only to not be read at all. Just an exercise in futility but hey it’s not my time.

    Once I learned that I also learned it’s MUCH fun to throw it right back in their face and expose the fact that Patriot Hater weenies can’t take what they dish out.

    You’ll figure it out.:)

  74. harrisonhits2 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:32 PM

    Poor liarman, his head is imploding and the extreme pressure on his brain from his collapsing skull is making it impossible for him to recognize actual facts.

    Science deniers. SMH I have to wonder liarman if when you get on a plane if you’re praying the engine elves have enough magic pixie dust so the plane won’t crash.

  75. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:35 PM

    I doubt whatever the NFL has to say is all that relevant.

    Once Brady/ballboys defamation suit is filed and Kessler asks for discovery… THAT is when the fun begins and when the truth finally sees the light of day.
    :)

  76. duffelbagsports says: Jan 18, 2016 9:36 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    ————————————
    Uhhh Peyton Manning was the other advocate for the rule change but that fact might get in the way of your point.

  77. gofor2with3pointlead says: Jan 18, 2016 9:37 PM

    The truth is, most people are certain Brady cheated dmc. The difference is Wells was too lazy and incompetent to establish irrefutable evidence, even when he was supplied with more than enough money to bury the whole organization up to their lying lips.

  78. Unchained81 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:37 PM

    Um, the Pats are back in the AFC title game AGAIN and probably back in the Super Bowl AGAIN. Safe to say Brady has proven this PSI nonsense to be just that – NONSENSE. It was a league driven agenda about something they’ve never cared about before – air pressure. Give me a break with this stupid controversy!

  79. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:38 PM

    Once the appeal is denied will Goodell be fired then?

    Or will Kraft tell him to his face at the Lombardi trophy ceremony?
    :)

  80. themboys5150 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:40 PM

    Were still not done with this… Geez..

  81. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:44 PM

    he difference is Wells was too lazy and incompetent to establish irrefutable evidence,

    —-
    Gee… an investigator can’t establish irrefutable evidence when none exists. You don’t say!:)

    I would love to hear the NFL front office admit the real reason why they did not want the ballboys to testify under oath at the appeal hearing. Any intelligent and objective observer already knows the real reason but I want to hear them say it.
    :)

  82. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:44 PM

    The reason people stopped reading Pats fans comments is because of the hashtag troll. The reason people skip over those comments are because of the obvious self-thumbs ups. Literally, the hashtag troll created the toxic environment here, most people bash the Pats because of him.

  83. dtroxallday says: Jan 18, 2016 9:45 PM

    Good grief. People still care?

  84. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:48 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:44 PM
    The reason people stopped reading Pats fans comments is because of the hashtag troll. The reason people skip over those comments are because of the obvious self-thumbs ups. Literally, the hashtag troll created the toxic environment here, most people bash the Pats because of him.

    —-
    ^
    Case in point about Patriot Hater weenies:) Always whining, crying and squealing about something instead of contributing something useful and interesting.

    #WellItsTrue
    #JustPointingOutTheFacts
    #AdmitItYouCantGetEnoughOfMe
    #IOwnYou

  85. getyourownname says: Jan 18, 2016 9:48 PM

    The League botched the case, no doubt. But to claim this was a witch hunt with nothing more to see is to ignore the obvious about the “weight losing” Deflator, the texts between equipment managers, the video of the attendant going into the bathroom that had no urinal carrying a bag of balls, the stonewalling by Brady and his yapping agent and the ultimate timely destruction of his phone, and other evidence that anyone in the real world knows is questionable, at best. Even Mr. Florio wrote earlier that Brady was not exonerated, just that the NFL is a modern version of the Keystone Cops.

  86. fndraiser says: Jan 18, 2016 9:50 PM

    The Wells report documented that the pressure in balls inflated in a warm room and then placed in a cold environment for over an hour lost pressure when remeasured . Just as the Ideal law states.

    If the pressure measured the same that would be evidence of tampering.

    Any data collected should reflect the conclusion of the ideal Gas law ,otherwise it is a fabrication with some nefarious intent and without integrity

  87. r8dernation says: Jan 18, 2016 9:50 PM

    Thumbs up if you’d rather see Super Bowl II.

  88. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:51 PM

    Fire Roger Goodell and let’s Make the NFL Great Again ™
    :)

  89. rcosborne59 says: Jan 18, 2016 9:52 PM

    It will prove little since for starters there is no definitive proof that the ref measured the psi prior to the deflategate game or recorded it. Plus unlike before the measurements were controlled and I assume measured with just one meter. Lastly should we trust Goodell and his minions to be honest if the results make them look bad.

  90. billswillnevermove says: Jan 18, 2016 9:52 PM

    TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:06 PM
    I just don’t believe what the NFL has to say!😥😥😥😥😥
    — Me doing a Mark Brunell imitation reading this summary
    …………
    Look at me, I’m 12 years old with my smiley faces. Mommy can I go out and play. Discuss.

  91. johnkgc says: Jan 18, 2016 9:53 PM

    That seems like an awfully strange time to consider releasing this info. Kind of like waiting to give the verdict from the Wells Report during training camp. Trying their damnedest to create a distraction for the Pats.

  92. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 9:56 PM

    Look at me, I’m 12 years old with my smiley faces. Mommy can I go out and play. Discuss.


    I don’t know, ask your mommy if you can go out and play. Why are you asking me?
    :):):):):):)

  93. Ralphie says: Jan 18, 2016 9:59 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:44 PM
    The reason people stopped reading Pats fans comments is because of the hashtag troll. The reason people skip over those comments are because of the obvious self-thumbs ups. Literally, the hashtag troll created the toxic environment here, most people bash the Pats because of him.
    _______________________________

    You can always get another miserable hobby instead of hovering over PFT 24/7 waiting for a Pats post that you can troll. For instance, I’m sure there’s a hospice site that you can troll.

  94. eyeandfootballofhorus says: Jan 18, 2016 10:04 PM

    factman66…

    …he is really sumthin’

    why are so many people here giving a pass to the NFL as to their supposed ignorance if the ideal gas law, something even kids intuitively know, and learn formally by 7th grade? if you ask me, they well knew if they measured at room temperature at the start, a more drastic-sounding reading would result after a half of football outside. scoundrels…

  95. veddermn8 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:05 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM

    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts

    …………………………………

    For a guy named factman you sure do not have many facts.
    Brady AND Manning led a coalition of a group NFL of QBS who all wanted the opportunity to break in their own footballs. Not just Brady.
    Deflator text was in May, many many months before AFC game and was not in a conversation about footballs, completely irrelavant.
    Footballs in the bathroom actually prove the guy couldnt have deflated the footballs to the accuracy he did in that amount of time.
    “league wide rumors”… from who Mike Kensil and Jim Harbaugh? not a credible piece of evidence.
    “quote from Brady that he likes balls underinflated” that is a stone cold lie, show me and cite it. this was NEVER said by Brady anywhere.

    Here is a fact for you, according to Ted Wells and MIT, the Pats balls under those conditions that day should have measured between 11.2 and 11.5 PSI, and if you average both gauges, guess what the Pats balls were at? 11.3…case closed, I just drank your milkshake, sorry.

  96. rolf1015 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:05 PM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:37 PM

    “The truth is, most people are certain Brady cheated dmc.
    The difference is Wells was too lazy and incompetent to establish irrefutable evidence…”
    _____________________

    That is because “most people” were “too lazy and incompetent” to read all the facts in this case and be objective. Much easier to just read the headlines and hate on the team and QB that always beats your team.

  97. nbptma1 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:06 PM

    Mike Kensil or Troy Vincent will leak the information (incorrectly) to Chris Mortensen the day before. The information will be incorrect because they know Mort is clueless.

  98. nolasoxfan2012 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:06 PM

    Every scientist who has looked at the data – other than those employed by the NFL – have derided the NFL’s interpretations. Yet, here we are – a year later, still fighting a court battle, the Patriots still with huge penalties. Roger Goodell and his cronies are despicable clowns.

  99. veddermn8 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:10 PM

    Even the NFLs new protocols are extremely flawed as the require the footballs to still be measured in the officials room, INSIDE. The only accurate way to measure the balls is to let them sit outside, and measure them outside. It eliminates the temperature change variable bringing them inside invites. Such an obvious mistake which shows that rich dont equal smart.

  100. nflfan1 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:12 PM

    dagator8888 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:11 PM
    Anyone that thinks having an underinflated football in rain orCheck out Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis’s stats with Pats and with everyone else. His fumbles tell a story.
    ————————–
    The Patriots still had the 2nd lowest amount of lost fumbles this season. Perhaps Green-Ellis’s stats changed for the worse after leaving the Pats because his coaching changed and the emphasis on in-game ball security wasn’t a priority in Cinncinnatti because they don’t bench you for the rest of the game when it happens like they do in NE. Thus the main reason former Patriot Steven Ridley is a FORMER Patriot.

  101. firecracker87 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:12 PM

    I totally trust their time tested scientific testing.

    /sarc

  102. tylawspick6 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:15 PM

    Unless the NFL filmed themselves doing this process, I have no interest. They could have easily fudged the numbers and no one would ever know.

    WHo is Goodell kidding here? College educated adults who are honest, realize he’s corrupt at this point, allowing and enabling teams’ witch hunts against the Pats so he can punish arbitrarily, to maintain parity as best as possible so he can put the Jags in London, sooner rather than later. A crappy team won’t get off the ground in London.

    “You doctored the log books, so I ask you again….Did you order the code red, Sherrif Goebbels?!!”

    LMAO

    I watched Making of a Murderer and thought about Deflategate. It’s the same thing. Exact same thing. Also, I think back to a Few Good Men and I think of Colonel Jessup as Goodell.

    So true.

    Fire and then arrest Goodell.

  103. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 10:16 PM

    For a guy named factman you sure do not have many facts.
    Brady AND Manning led a coalition of a group NFL of QBS who all wanted the opportunity to break in their own footballs. Not just Brady.
    Deflator text was in May, many many months before AFC game and was not in a conversation about footballs, completely irrelavant.
    Footballs in the bathroom actually prove the guy couldnt have deflated the footballs to the accuracy he did in that amount of time.
    “league wide rumors”… from who Mike Kensil and Jim Harbaugh? not a credible piece of evidence.
    “quote from Brady that he likes balls underinflated” that is a stone cold lie, show me and cite it. this was NEVER said by Brady anywhere.

    Here is a fact for you, according to Ted Wells and MIT, the Pats balls under those conditions that day should have measured between 11.2 and 11.5 PSI, and if you average both gauges, guess what the Pats balls were at? 11.3…case closed, I just drank your milkshake, sorry.
    —-

    Oh SNAP. Patriot Hater got completely owned again.

    Well done. Better than I could have done it.:)

  104. nfl123 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:16 PM

    NFL will release numbers if they look good for them AND if Pats beat Broncos. I think NFL wants Pats to win, in part so the Peyton Manning HGH story isn’t brought up before the Super Bowl. I think the HGH thing is real; Al Jazeera is a legitimate news agency. But the story came out when Manning was down. If he pulls off the upset over the Pats, the issue will come back in a big way. But if Pats win, NFL will release numbers that make people think they were right all along.

  105. mdmahoney88 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:20 PM

    First of all, any summary release will only occur if the Patriots win this weekend.

    Second of all, if the NFL tries to make this the story in the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl yet again, any objective football fan that can put aside their Patriot hate for even just one second should finally be able to see the agenda that the league has against one of its franchises.

    If you still can’t see it, or still refuse to admit it, then you’re ignorant and really have no reason to be taken seriously when giving your opinions

  106. unoduotres says: Jan 18, 2016 10:20 PM

    Factman,
    On Jan 26,2015 (Colin Cowherd Show), Bill Polian who served for 19 years on the NFL Competition Committee said that assertions that Brady and Manning had tried to engineer the QBs control of football preparations “were totally misrepresented”. (Polian’s exact words). Polian said that the NFL’s Football manufacturer (Wilson) was planning on making changes to the laces of the football and approached the NFL’s Competition Committee for their input. The Competition Committee was comprised of members from 8 NFL teams.

    A suggestion was made by the NFL Competition committee to add Tom Brady to the QBs testing the new footballs during OTAs and minicamps. The QB testing group did not like the new footballs and recommended Wilson go back to the old footballs.. The old footballs had a slippery sheen on them when removed from the manufacturer’s shipping boxes. Because of this the QB testing group recommended that the QBs be involved in the ball preparation process, to which the NFL Competition Committee concurred.

    This is a Fact , (Factman 66) which can be confirmed from credible public sources. It differs from the unproven garbage and venom, you continue to spew.

  107. dontletfactsgetintheway says: Jan 18, 2016 10:21 PM

    They will release the results if the Patriot’s go to the Super Bowl. 31 owners are so jealous of the Patriot’s success that they will do ANYTHING to bring them down even if they have to lie. They will also get away with it because the Kraft family does nothing to fight back like a real owner, AL DAVIS, would do if he was being screwed by the league.
    I am still waiting for a reason why the Colt’s footballs were below the legal PSI yet nobody (Pat’s haters factman, baltimoron etc) can explain why!!

  108. hivelocityimpactsplatter says: Jan 18, 2016 10:24 PM

    tylawspick6 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:15 PM
    …I watched Making of a Murderer and thought about Deflategate. It’s the same thing. Exact same thing.
    ****
    Only a Patriots fan would like a show that ignores piles of evidence indicating guilt and attempts to create sympathy for a murderer. Makes me think of Deflategate too, come to think of it. Let’s ignore the Deflator taking balls into a restroom. Just like they ignored his blood on her key, in her vehicle, on his property!!

  109. tonebones says: Jan 18, 2016 10:26 PM

    It ain’t the first time the Patriots got caught cheating and it won’t be the last. It’s too bad their legacy has to get tarnished. It’s like Barry Bonds. Look at Bonds’ numbers. That guy is probably a top 5 all timer without those couple seasons of inflated numbers. Maybe he gets 690 HRs without any help. The lower air pressure is to help the receivers hang on to the football. Brady can throw the ball fine when it’s cold and wet, but it is harder to catch. If the Colts had softer footballs, maybe they win the game. We’ll never know. They had some key first half drops, or they would have gone into halftime with a good lead. That changes everything. That’s why the Pats were punished. It doesn’t mean Brady isn’t great. He and Bonds are both among the greatest ever.

  110. tigerlilac says: Jan 18, 2016 10:26 PM

    All but the most pathetic haters admit that the Patriots earn their victories but even many of the non-haters lament the idea of the Patriots in another super bowl. There’s the rub. Between the envy of owners and the fatigue of the average fan with the Patriots winning, the NFL hired a hit man (wells) to take out Brady. They misfired. Hard to try a second assassination attempt with out being exposed. The only was to stop the Patriots now is to (1) hope another team slays the champs or (2) the refs (and their dictators in NY) put in the fix.

  111. rolf1015 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:36 PM

    hivelocityimpactsplatter says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:24 PM
    Only a Patriots fan would like a show that ignores piles of evidence indicating guilt
    __________________
    Well, if you are seeking real facts and “evidence” you can find it right in the Wells Report:

    pg 113:
    “The Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half”

    pg 52:
    “Anderson’s best recollection is that he used the Logo Gauge”.

    pg 8:
    Avg. psi of Patriot footballs at halftime with the Logo Gauge was 11.49 psi.

  112. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 18, 2016 10:36 PM

    The lower air pressure is to help the receivers hang on to the football.

    —-
    All well and good… until you take a look at the Patriots percentage of dropped passes and notice that they logged not the highest, not the 2nd, not the 3rd but the 4th highest dropped pass %…… since 2010.

    So much for that theory.:)

    I think it’s interesting that QB play around the league has been waaay down in 2015 with air pressure checks… with a few exceptions, Tom Brady being one of them. Go figure.
    :)

  113. bullcharger says: Jan 18, 2016 10:36 PM

    tonebones says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:26 PM
    It ain’t the first time the Patriots got caught cheating and it won’t be the last. It’s too bad their legacy has to get tarnished. It’s like Barry Bonds. Look at Bonds’ numbers. That guy is probably a top 5 all timer without those couple seasons of inflated numbers. Maybe he gets 690 HRs without any help. The lower air pressure is to help the receivers hang on to the football. Brady can throw the ball fine when it’s cold and wet, but it is harder to catch. If the Colts had softer footballs, maybe they win the game. We’ll never know. They had some key first half drops, or they would have gone into halftime with a good lead. That changes everything. That’s why the Pats were punished. It doesn’t mean Brady isn’t great. He and Bonds are both among the greatest ever.

    ————-

    Don’t be so ridiculous comparing Brady to a PED abuser. That is literally the most disrespectful idiotic thing ever.

  114. cinzano08 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:37 PM

    Tb12 should have had hgh sent to his house in his wife’s name by a clinic that got busted importing the stuff from China and it would be a non story, right haters?

  115. cinzano08 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:41 PM

    @tonebones it must suck to be you. 45 to 7 and you think it was the ball psi? Even a moron couldn’t rationalize that outcome.

  116. t38267 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:42 PM

    between the Championship games and the SuperBowl is also in the runup to the oral argument in the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

    I smell a rat.

  117. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:42 PM

    I love the fact that Pats fans hang on every word I type. Responding to Mr. Hashtag is beneath my dignity. I don’t play children’s games.

  118. bullcharger says: Jan 18, 2016 10:43 PM

    If the league releases their completely selective, non-scientific data before the Super Bowl it would only make sense to do it if it made them look good. They basically can make up what ever they want. Why not wait a few weeks. Looks like a threat to the Patriots to me. Sad.

  119. lanman11 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:44 PM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    ********************************************************

    You sound both ignorant, AND illiterate.

  120. nfl123 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:45 PM

    No proof a slightly underinflated ball is easier to hold onto (Theisman says the opposite) and the Pats led the league this year in fewest fumbles per play. Explain that knuckleheads.

  121. glaedrfly says: Jan 18, 2016 10:45 PM

    How much air does an under inflated football lose? Compared with one that was inflated to start with? Why do we have to assume the footballs lost air during the game, if it can be assumed the air was already released in a lockerroom bathroom?

    Is there science for that? Does a flatter tire lose more or less air in cold weather than a fully inflated one? See what I’m getting at?

  122. td1439 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:47 PM

    I’m assuming all of the people who keep citing the same circumstantial evidence as definitive proof that Brady is guilty are applying to same standard to the far more relevant circumstantial evidence that Peyton Manning took HGH.

    Because otherwise you’d all be massive hypocrites.

  123. thewarison2001 says: Jan 18, 2016 10:52 PM

    While the NFL & Mr. Wells provided plenty of circumstantial evidence, nothing was more powerful than the ACTUAL evidence.

    Goodell is ON RECORD lying about Brady’s testimony from the appeal.

    NFL sources told Mort that 11/12 Pats balls were 2 Psi under-inflated, when we know that NONE of the Pats balls were 2 Psi under inflated.

    These are proven lies.

    You might think the texts sound bad (although the haters willfully ignore the texts where Brady asked JJ to show the refs the rule book so they know the legal level of ball inflation). It sure sounds bad when you hear Brady had “destroyed” his cellphone.

    But out of context text messages – 2 that mention the word “deflate” – aren’t evidence of a crime. Especially since 1 was sent 8 months before the AFc Champ game & 4 months before the season started & the 2nd was sent when the Pats were in GB and “the deflator” was 1800 miles away in New Hampshire.

    And how did the NFL find out about Brady’s phone? Brady volunteered the information. He said he routinely recycles through mobiles (which most celebs do). It wasn’t like the NFL produced this evidence through deep under cover work. brady told them. He told them he disposed of a cellphone that he was under NO obligation to give, which Wells said he didn’t want.

    Why does everyone forget that?

    Answer: they just want to hate.

    The NFL & Wells believed EVERY WORD Walt Coleman said – EXCEPT which gauge he used. Why? B/c if they did, the Pats balls, by their own scientists, were fine.

    Brady also testified under oath, with penalty of perjury if he was discovered to be lying.

    The NFL didn’t catch him lying. The only liars were the NFL & Mr. Goodell.

    Also, something never mentioned… the NFL admitted in court they had NO evidence of illegal deflation. No evidence anyone in NE did anything wrong. No evidence Brady did anything wrong.

    The NFL just released a memo before last week’s Minn-Sea game that they were worried that balls inflated to 13 Psi would deflate naturally to 9.0 PSI.

    So it’s your prerogative not to believe Brady, but he hasn’t been proven to have lied or done anything wrong. Goodall’s lie in ON RECORD. The NFL sources that told Mort the balls were 2 PSI under inflated lied.

    Why did the NFL have to lie if they had the truth on their side?

    Sorry, but the NFL wants you to look at the text, look at the cellphone, but not the footballs, not the actual evidence, not the lies from Goodell.

    The NFL should do the right thing… apologize to Brady & NE, reinstate Pats fine $ and draft picks & drop the appeal.

  124. patsandwannabees says: Jan 18, 2016 10:53 PM

    Do you think Goodell and his minions read these articles?
    You can see by almost every comment on here that the NFL front office under Roger has lost the faith of all the fans.
    I guess no fans believe his BS about integrity.
    You Roger, have tarnished the shield more than anyone in the history of the league.

  125. ebdug says: Jan 18, 2016 10:54 PM

    Is there even any evidence that the NFL actually tested footballs this season?

  126. bullcharger says: Jan 18, 2016 10:54 PM

    patsfiend says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:24 PM
    At 2am on a Saturday morning via a press release sent by carrier pigeon to a mailbox on Park Ave. The numbers don’t lie, and they exonerate the Pats. Bring it on, d-bags.

    ——–

    What makes you think the data is legit. No impartial third party. Measurements only in selected games. No report of what games they actually measured. No disclosure of gauges used. They can report what ever they want. That would be a reason to release it before the Patriots play in a Super Bowl. They could have released it after every game. Total scam.

  127. ibelievebrady says: Jan 18, 2016 10:57 PM

    This will be fabricated or cleverly worded (like “generally aware”) so it makes the PSI drop look less. We will have no idea the timing of the measurements which is what explains the difference between the Pats drop and the Colts drop. The NFL has an ongoing federal court case. You think they are going to willingly put out info that makes them look bad?

  128. thewarison2001 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:02 PM

    tonebones says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:26 PM
    It ain’t the first time the Patriots got caught cheating and it won’t be the last.
    ************************************************

    First off, they weren’t “caught”. Every scientist in the world has contradicted the NFL’s findings. The NFL admitted – in court – they had no evidence. And Goodell is ON record, lying about Brady’s appeal testimony.

    Secondly, yes, the Pats were caught videotaping signals from the sideline instead of the designated area you are legally allowed to tape signals from in the stands.

    Yes, that’s right. It’s 100% legal to tape signals. It still is (although no one uses signals anymore).

    So I ask you, honestly, how bad a crime was Spygate? If taping signals from a certain area is 100% legal and the “crime” the Pats committed was JUST the location of the camera, how bad a cheating scandal is it?

    Finally, every team has been caught multiple times “cheating”. You name a team, there’s an incident of cheating on their resume. Last year, Carolina, ATL, Cle, Seattle & the Jets were all caught – 100% proven – cheating.

    It’s bonkers that the Pats are held to a different standard. Denver violated the salary cap during their 2 Super Bowl winning years. Are Elway’s titles tainted? Every team tries to bend rules. Every team has been caught. During Eli’s last Super Bowl title year, the Giants were caught ON CAMERA faking injuries. They don’t win vs the Rams if they didn’t. Giants made playoffs by 1 game. Had they not cheated vs Rams, they don’t make playoffs & don’t win the Sueprbowl.

    Manning had HGH delivered to his home in his wife’s name.

    The Jets tampered with an all-pro CB from a division rival.

    The list goes on and on. And in EVERY CASE I mentioned, there’s MORE actual evidence of cheating than ANYTHING in deflategate.

    Before commenting, try google. read & learn.

  129. veddermn8 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:02 PM

    onebones says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:26 PM

    It ain’t the first time the Patriots got caught cheating and it won’t be the last. It’s too bad their legacy has to get tarnished. It’s like Barry Bonds. Look at Bonds’ numbers. That guy is probably a top 5 all timer without those couple seasons of inflated numbers. Maybe he gets 690 HRs without any help. The lower air pressure is to help the receivers hang on to the football. Brady can throw the ball fine when it’s cold and wet, but it is harder to catch. If the Colts had softer footballs, maybe they win the game. We’ll never know. They had some key first half drops, or they would have gone into halftime with a good lead. That changes everything. That’s why the Pats were punished. It doesn’t mean Brady isn’t great. He and Bonds are both among the greatest ever.

    ………….

    One of the gauges had 3 of 4 Colts balls under 12.5 too. And the Colts balls were allowed to warm up, thus raising the PSI, as opposed to the Pats balls which were measured first and were colder.

  130. bullcharger says: Jan 18, 2016 11:02 PM

    It’s almost enough for me to stop watching football.
    So dumb to have a feud with your most popular money making franchise. Grow up Goodell and start to do things in fair and reasonable way.

  131. whispersd says: Jan 18, 2016 11:03 PM

    If the NFL has results that contradict the Ideal Gas Law, that would truly be a publishable result! What other long-established scientific principles will they find do not apply in NFL stadiums? Perhaps the speed of light is slower in Dallas? Maybe the gravitational constant is slower in Seattle? It’s important for the NFL to conduct their secret experiments to validate scientific laws that we naively considered to have been resolved a long time ago.

  132. whispersd says: Jan 18, 2016 11:10 PM

    ” Even Mr. Florio wrote earlier that Brady was not exonerated, just that the NFL is a modern version of the Keystone Cops.”

    Even the NFL’s attorneys admitted in court they didn’t have any evidence tying Brady to any ball tampering on Jan. 18th last year.

    Once the NFL realized they’d screwed up, they collectively put their need to keep their jobs ahead of any serious or legitimate inquiry.

  133. artic19 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:12 PM

    Saturday Night Live hit the nail right on the head!

  134. whispersd says: Jan 18, 2016 11:16 PM

    “Only a Patriots fan would like a show that ignores piles of evidence indicating guilt”

    Only a hater would use a phrase like “piles of evidence”. Every time we ask you “what evidence” you bring up things that aren’t actually evidence of wrongdoing, like a text message written in May, the fact that Brady was angry when footballs were over-inflated, or the fact that the equipment took a 100-second bathroom break.

    When we say “evidence” we want things like
    – footballs with pressures carefully measured before the game and recorded, and with pressures measured at halftime that are too low to be explained by science. We don’t have that.

    – any evidence whatsoever from anybody involved that indicated that Brady or anybody else actually wanted balls deflated below 12.5 psi.

    – any evidence whatsoever from anybody involved that indicates any instruction to tamper with, or record of having tampered with football

    What we do have are a number of well-documented lies by NFL league office sources, including most notably a lie told by Roger Goodell about the substance of Tom Brady’s sealed testimony. We literally know that Goodell is a liar. If he had been sworn in like Brady was sworn in, he could be facing perjury charges.

  135. chaunceylabonza says: Jan 18, 2016 11:17 PM

    I can’t figure out if “factman” *chortle!!!* is Wells, or if it’s Goodell himself.

  136. bcgreg says: Jan 18, 2016 11:17 PM

    Might.

    I won’t hold my breath.

    I saw a player who recovered a fumble place the cold football on the heated bench. Don’t measure that one. The numbers will get skewed.

  137. patriotsticketssince1978 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:18 PM

    I love a good tonebones story. Rich in character development, unpretentious delivery, fine story line. All the qualities of great fiction.

  138. baw409 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:19 PM

    So why did they change out the balls a the Vikes Hawks Game at the Half ?? Because they were under 10 PSI. Thats what happens when you play in cold weather…

  139. mmack66 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:25 PM

    getyourownname says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:48 PM

    The League botched the case, no doubt. But to claim this was a witch hunt with nothing more to see is to ignore the obvious about the “weight losing” Deflator, the texts between equipment managers, the video of the attendant going into the bathroom that had no urinal carrying a bag of balls, the stonewalling by Brady and his yapping agent and the ultimate timely destruction of his phone, and other evidence that anyone in the real world knows is questionable, at best. Even Mr. Florio wrote earlier that Brady was not exonerated, just that the NFL is a modern version of the Keystone Cops.
    —————————————-

    The Colts did have softer footballs. Read the Pash Report.

    The Patriots also played BETTER in the second half of the AFCCG, AFTER the footballs had EXTRA air added to them.

    I say extra, because no air had actually been let out of the footballs in the first place.

  140. qbarrel says: Jan 18, 2016 11:31 PM

    Unless they are also releasing the calibration certifications for the gauges they are using, then any/all data that they collect is utterly meaningless.

  141. patfanken says: Jan 18, 2016 11:32 PM

    The Trolls are getting more pathetic, delusional and desperate with every story. But that is THEIR problem not ours.

    BTW- I don’t want an apology from Goodell, he’s not man enough to give one. What I want are our drafts pick back. Not so much for the team. They will survive without them. But I enjoy following the draft and without a #1 pick, it will be a lot less interesting.

    So Roger if you won’t give back the picks because it is simply the right thing to do, or if you won’t give them back because it’s the Pats; how about giving them back for ME. 😀 It will make my April more interesting.

  142. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:36 PM

    Do Pats fans even realize the people know its possible that a ball could lose pressure in the cold?
    People refuse to accept that as an excuse because of the other circumstantial evidence. Your science experiments prove nothing other than you still don’t understand why people think Brady did it.

  143. factman66 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:37 PM

    Charlie Sly was most likely a Pats fan. Would anyone be surprised if he was?

  144. camnewtonisgod says: Jan 18, 2016 11:40 PM

    At least with the game in Denver the Broncos won’t have to worry about faulty headsets in the 4th quarter & on 3rd downs.

  145. lanman11 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:45 PM

    Google “Deflategate, one year later: The anatomy of a failed controversy” and read the article in SI. SI was as complicit as many others in bad journalism surrounding this issue, but this article nails about 98% of the salient points. One exception was not mentioning a person of Brady and Giselle’s stature would certainly have private information on their phones that tabloids would pay big money for, and routinely destroying old phones is commonplace for stars, especially in light of Brady being told he did not have to turn his over, AND the NFL’s now legendary reputation for information “leaks” and manipulation. He was wise not to do so. The NFL only pursues this because of the connection to the CBA. It’s no longer personal. Everyone will be in good cheer when Goodell hands Kraft the Lombardi and Brady the SB MVP. :)

  146. tonebones says: Jan 18, 2016 11:45 PM

    patriotsticketssince1978 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:18 PM
    I love a good tonebones story. Rich in character development, unpretentious delivery, fine story line. All the qualities of great fiction.
    ————————————-
    Thank you for the encouragement. Just trying to fit in.

  147. mmack66 says: Jan 18, 2016 11:52 PM

    You don’t need a calibrated gauge. You just need to make sure you use the same gauge throughout. Oh, and put a straight needle on it too.

    Might also want to uniquely mark each football, and record, on paper, the starting PSI of each football.

  148. gofor2with3pointlead says: Jan 18, 2016 11:56 PM

    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to dig into every fathomable facete of why a cheater would cheat or make it their life’s work disproving a negative rolf, we’re talking about “most people” who are non-homers. You see, there’s no particular nobility in your professed allegiance to a team that’s won a few more games than the average team. In fact, it proves what I’ve always said about NE fans, bunch of tweens that haven’t yet experienced the lean times. And brother, this I know, the lean times are a comin, could be as good a time as any to jump off that bandwagon. You guys are so cute though when you flail at little old me.

  149. amadorcountyca says: Jan 19, 2016 12:00 AM

    What’s not undisputed is the 15 year dynasty called the New England Patriots.

    Cue the cheers.

  150. ikeclanton says: Jan 19, 2016 12:07 AM

    Make no mistake–the league has not forgotten that Brady got the phony-baloney 4 game suspension lifted in federal court and even though the Wells report was proven to be more full of holes than Swiss cheese, they plan to get revenge for looking downright stupid and petty in this whole debacle.

    They’re a wonderful bunch–I can’t wait to see what they fabricate next.

  151. dreadpirate88 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:35 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    —————————————–

    “Deniable plausibility”? LOL. Do the world a favor, “factman” — stop trying to use big words if you don’t know what they mean. You’re embarrassing yourself.

  152. wahoo21 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:49 AM

    glaedrfly says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:45 PM
    How much air does an under inflated football lose? Compared with one that was inflated to start with? Why do we have to assume the footballs lost air during the game, if it can be assumed the air was already released in a lockerroom bathroom?

    Is there science for that? Does a flatter tire lose more or less air in cold weather than a fully inflated one? See what I’m getting at
    ———————————————————
    really ????

    A football does not lose air in temperature change and neither does a tire….they lose pressure or gain pressure with temperature as the variable

    try thermodynamics for an explanation…..4 laws of science

  153. kelsey59 says: Jan 19, 2016 1:19 AM

    Everyone knows the Pats were cheating last year. Why release the results this year. It is irrelevant.

  154. osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says: Jan 19, 2016 1:33 AM

    Now I know why people believe in global warming.

    The Ideal Gas Law is not a “scientific principle.” It a hypothetical approximation of how certain “ideal gasses” (which the air in football is NOT) might behave under laboratory conditions. It has never been scientifically proven.

    Extremely misleading post in order to support your biases, Mike. Take my advice and read some scientific literature on the so-called “law.”

    Or better yet just consult Wikipedia.

  155. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 19, 2016 4:15 AM

    Everyone will be in good cheer when Goodell hands Kraft the Lombardi and Brady the SB MVP.
    —–
    I SO can’t wait till Goodell is forced to make that speech and hand over the trophy.:) The only thing that would make it better is a resignation speech to go with it!
    :)

  156. tdne says: Jan 19, 2016 4:57 AM

    The NFL won’t release any information unless it reflects poorly on the Patriots. After what the NFL has done to the Patriots and to Tom Brady’s reputation with this Colts/Ravens fabricated story, why would I ever believe anything that comes out of the NFL again? They’ll never admit they got it wrong. And, because of the mass hysteria this story caused throughout the country, it would have been important for me that a Patriots’ representative be present at every one of these ‘random’ test locations just to ensure the testing was on the up and up. Only then could I truly believe what the testing results showed.

  157. themanfromtheblacklodge says: Jan 19, 2016 4:59 AM

    Jan 18, 2016 8:59 PM
    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts
    _____________________________

    A small point: the text in which McNally is referred to as the ‘Deflator’ was sent in May 2014, when he didn’t even work for the Patriots and neither he, nor Jastremski, had any idea who would be in the AFC Championship Game, which is the focal point of the NFL’s investigation, and the only game in which footballs had been measured at that time.

  158. realpatsfan says: Jan 19, 2016 5:00 AM

    Like we can believe the results. You know it will have to go through the chain of command, to Protect The Shield….
    Great timing to release the results at at this time of year in the league.

  159. patpatriot7 says: Jan 19, 2016 5:01 AM

    “At least with the game in Denver the Broncos won’t have to worry about faulty headsets in the 4th quarter & on 3rd downs?” Why not? The NFL, not the home team is responsible for setting up and maintaining the sound system. Another fallacy that fans like to grab onto and accuse the Patriots of responsibility.

  160. patpatriot7 says: Jan 19, 2016 5:12 AM

    faction. For someone who claims they present only the facts, where do you get your factual information? Brady and Manning were instrumental in the rule change about ball preparation and were supported by every other quarterback in the league, all of whom have a ball inflation preference. That’s why they allow a range of psis and each team has its own balls.
    The only FACT that I have garnered from your posts is that you hate the Patriots and are a fan of one of the teams that was a victim of “The Curse of Deflategate,” in chronological order from the date they were eliminated Ravens, Colts, Dolphins and Jets. Which one was it?

  161. patriotsfootballleague says: Jan 19, 2016 5:36 AM

    Whoa whoa whoa!! Leave it to NFL office to put on test, trial, and scrutinize mother nature. Where is the investigation into the Colts personnel walking around with needles devised for air pressure manipulation? How about an investigation into falsifying submitted documents and behavior detrimental to the integrity of the game in the form of collaboration between three professional organizations to smear the one, all presented to a Federal judge to falsely and unjustly discredit and destroy one man’s career and reputation. Come on, man, you trolls are pathetic.

  162. dinozzo27 says: Jan 19, 2016 5:41 AM

    The NFL might want to give their refs a checklist so that they don’t forget the balls AND the gauges in the hotel room while they are the stadium like they did this weekend for the Pats/Chiefs game…and these refs will be the same ones checking the PSI???

  163. letmefeelyourlove says: Jan 19, 2016 5:43 AM

    If the NFL wants to bolster its case against the Patriots, releasing just temperature and PSI data isn’t good enough. There were three weather related factors at play at last year’s AFCCG … temperature, rain, and wind.

    Move a football from a warm locker room to a cold playing field, and there will be a drop in psi. A wet football also loses air pressure. Exponent slightly dampened footballs in their tests and recorded a drop of about .2 psi. HeadSmart Labs exposed footballs to more water and reported a drop of up to .7 psi. Finally, it was very windy at the AFCCG, with gusts in the high 20’s. Expose a wet object like a football to wind, and evaporative cooling occurs (think wind chill). The temperature of the ball will be lower than that of the ambient air.

    If the NFL releases only temperature and psi data (if they release anything at all, of course), I see just two possibilities. The first is that they still don’t understand the science. The second is that getting it right isn’t part of their agenda.

  164. ohand16 says: Jan 19, 2016 5:56 AM

    Tom Brady did NOTHING wrong

  165. Don Humphrey says: Jan 19, 2016 6:05 AM

    Nefarious Fools Legion

  166. selfpromotingqb says: Jan 19, 2016 6:05 AM

    This story is meant to distract the Patriots this week.
    Peyton Manning and Ari Fleisher are behind this

  167. yette1 says: Jan 19, 2016 6:28 AM

    The Patriots will be playing in their 10th AFC championship game over the past 15 seasons (thanks, Tom Brady & Bill Belichick), never before accomplished in NFL history.

    Five straight AFC title games matches the NFL record once set by the Oakland Raiders in the ‘70’s, but the Raiders only managed to win one of those opportunities.

    Unprecedented dominance for 15 years, Haters hate..

  168. therea1pmac says: Jan 19, 2016 6:33 AM

    Enough of this fiasco man….just enough.

    People who are jealous of NE’s success will always hate them logic or no.

    Just enough….

  169. graylingskies says: Jan 19, 2016 6:49 AM

    It never was about psi or standards or rules or fair play. It was about keeping Brady off the field and the Patriots out of the playoffs. What happens in Vegas…

  170. John Harbaugh Is A Sad, Whiney Middle Aged Woman says: Jan 19, 2016 7:02 AM

    None of it matters. The Patriots are known, proven cheaters and have been for many years. For Christ’s sake there was a guy on the team nicknamed THE DEFLATOR!!

    All of Brady’s rings have an asterisk, and everybody but Pats fans know this.

  171. Mo Pro Babble says: Jan 19, 2016 7:18 AM

    Jan 18, 2016 4:05 PM
    Won’t matter either way.

    Pats win 34 – 17

    Brady is 0-2 against teams lead by Peyton on the road. Brady is 2-6 at Denver since 2001. Not quite the slam dunk gimme that the homer fans think it is. If you think that Tommy doesn’t believe that this will be the hardest game of the year then you’re just fooling yourself and know nothing about football. No run game, on the road, at Mile High, with a beat up o-line? Tommy knows what’s coming and knows that it’s going to be the toughest game of the year for him. And he’ll lose. Again-


    Using my Factman66 to Rational Thought Process Dictionary I’ve translated.

    “I don’t care what the facts are, they ruin my narrative ”

    Kudos to the guy who asked about the forgotten balls. How in the worlds, after all that’s been said and done in the last year did the minions of Goodell manages to leave the balls and gauges in the hotel?

    This is the group that Factman66 and his ilk are hanging their hopes and prayers upon.

    You bought into a lie because it suited your hater agenda. And that’s all there is to it.

  172. bushwoodcc says: Jan 19, 2016 7:19 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:45 PM

    Kraft runs this blog.
    _______________________________

    It must absolutely kill you that Judge Berman exposed the league’s case for the sham it was. The transcripts proved the NFL lied repeatedly, proved they told Brady they didn’t need his phone as they had everything off it already and it showed the league did everything they could to avoid due process and fair treatment.

    And then when Berman asked them if they had any evidence the NFL answered “No”.

  173. bushwoodcc says: Jan 19, 2016 7:29 AM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:56 PM

    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to dig into every fathomable facete of why a cheater would cheat or make it their life’s work disproving a negative rolf, we’re talking about “most people” who are non-homers. You see, there’s no particular nobility in your professed allegiance to a team that’s won a few more games than the average team. In fact, it proves what I’ve always said about NE fans, bunch of tweens that haven’t yet experienced the lean times. And brother, this I know, the lean times are a comin, could be as good a time as any to jump off that bandwagon. You guys are so cute though when you flail at little old me.
    ______________________________

    All we ever wanted was the truth. And now that the truth has become obvious (deflation was atmospheric – the NFL’s case was a sham) you want to shift the discussion. Yes, you are that transparent.

    Yep, eventually the Pats will again hit lean times again. But it’s been an awesome 15 year run so far and that is what eats losers like you up. That despite proclaiming doom and gloom for almost 10 years that the Pats keep playing long past the time your team’s season has ended. For a Pats fan since the mid 70’s the past 15 years have been awesome, and the tears of little trolls such as yourself are just icing on the cake. Because when it does finally come to an end, we’ll still have one of the greatest runs of success in NFL history to back on.

  174. thenameisredskins says: Jan 19, 2016 7:42 AM

    So, reading between the lines.

    The league hasn’t decided when, or if it will release the findings of its cherry picked data to the public. Much of this decision will depend on a couple of things.

    First, the league wants to make sure the Patriots are in the Super Bowl. They will want to have this controversy continued over 2 years. Of course, if the Patriots do not make it to the Super Bowl, they will wait to release it in the offseason.

    Second, the league will want time to manipulate the data to support their weak, and uneducated accusation. Since noone knows what games and which footballs were tested, the league can, and probably will, use the results that most favorably support their accusation from last season. They do need to substantiate the ridiculously expensive Wells Report after all.

    Finally, there is absolutely no way possible that the league will admit to any data that would allow the Patriots to come back at them and recoup their draft pick and fine. Roger will present the findings in such a way that no conclusive evidence was ever found either way.

    Bottom line, the league was duped by two very bitter representatives from two beaten franchises. If the league was smart, they would be sending a nice bill to the Ravens and Colts and taking a first round pick from both teams, and giving them to the Patriots. Maybe even look at suspensions for Grisgson and Harbaugh.

  175. patsfiend says: Jan 19, 2016 7:54 AM

    @bullcharger. I hear ya, but look at it this way, if the data is not legit, we’ll all know it the second it comes out. I think if anything the distraction steels the Pats, so bring it on.

  176. rolf1015 says: Jan 19, 2016 7:57 AM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:56 PM
    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to dig into every fathomable facete….
    ________________________
    Thanks for making my case – I understand that you and “most people” just don’t have time to review all the key facts in this case and you would prefer to grasp onto anything that could possibly support your presumption of guilt. I suppose reading every Patriot article on these sites and reading/posting comments is much more productive use of your time.

  177. kissbillsrings says: Jan 19, 2016 8:04 AM

    Until the NFL gives back the draft picks they STOLE from the Patriots, issues a apology to the Patriots Organization & their fan base & throws out their frivolous ongoing litigation against Brady, NOTHING the NFL will be worth mentioning in regards to the PSI/deflategate hack job is worth listening to!!

  178. bullcharger says: Jan 19, 2016 8:17 AM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:56 PM
    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to dig into every fathomable facete of why a cheater would cheat or make it their life’s work disproving a negative rolf, we’re talking about “most people” who are non-homers. You see, there’s no particular nobility in your professed allegiance to a team that’s won a few more games than the average team. In fact, it proves what I’ve always said about NE fans, bunch of tweens that haven’t yet experienced the lean times. And brother, this I know, the lean times are a comin, could be as good a time as any to jump off that bandwagon. You guys are so cute though when you flail at little old me.

    ——–

    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to write about things they hate on a public forum and admit they get joy from simply getting a rise out of the people that are actually there to have a reasonable discussion.

  179. footballfanatic says: Jan 19, 2016 8:22 AM

    Will pressure drop? yes. Will it drop by 2 full PSI- not even close. If that were the case then balls at Lambeau would drop by 4psi by halftime……..and amazingly no qb has ever noticed this phenomenon? Oh and if the balls lose pressure………they’d all go down at about the same rate seeing as how they are all in the same conditions. All colts balls measured within .5 psi of eachother at halftime, the Pats balls were spread out over 1.6 psi………..weird how their balls just dropped random amounts while the Colts balls all dropped about the same amount.

  180. sonhoodoo says: Jan 19, 2016 8:26 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:36 PM
    Do Pats fans even realize the people know its possible that a ball could lose pressure in the cold?
    People refuse to accept that as an excuse because of the other circumstantial evidence. Your science experiments prove nothing other than you still don’t understand why people think Brady did it.
    —————————–

    Does that actually make sense to you?

    The entire investigation began because of the direct evidence of the loss of psi. Without that to begin with there would be no investigation. But, it turns out that direct evidence doesn’t actually exist and you even admit to that. So instead of simply calling it a day, you actually choose to take circumstantial evidence as “proof” of something you admit didn’t happen.

    I will try to make it easy so even you can understand it. Bob is dead. He is lying dead on the ground. They think Bill did it and go through his phone records where he has a text asking about poison. Then two guys he works with went to a Poison concert. But, it turns out Bob isn’t really dead. It just looked that way. You are the guy still trying to convict Bill of murder.

  181. patriotsticketssince1978 says: Jan 19, 2016 8:33 AM

    Exclusive excerpt from the psi report to be released……………

    “$1.49 for ten chicken nuggets? hahahaohohohahahyukyuk.”

  182. cb3313 says: Jan 19, 2016 8:34 AM

    Well “factman66” you seem to be confused. You fell for only reading ESPN & NFL headlines and didn’t investigate the so called “facts”… Your argument is based on opinions and not Facts. Similar to NFL and ESPN. Here, let me help you:

    1. Fact: Manning and Brady lobbied for the rule change of preparing footballs. They were speaking for all NFL QBs, including your team’s QB. (You forgot to put that in your post.)

    2. The word deflator appeared ONCE in a text from MAY. NFL not even in season, so obviously has nothing to do with AFC Championship game in question. FACT. (I guess if HGH appears in any of Manning’s text, he must be guilty too, right?)

    3. Destroyed Cell Phone – Again, you fell for the headlines and didn’t look at the FACTS. Fact – Wells told Brady he didn’t want his cell phone. The fact that Goodell then tries to use that against Brady only helps prove the frame job. (Remember your free thinking. Think on that.)

    4. “League Wide Rumors” – Unsubstantiated Rumors = Crybaby Soup. Proof = Credibility. Where is your proof of any of these rumors? Crickets….Zero credibility on yours or the other Haters part. FACT.

    5. Brady said in jest after Gronk spiked the ball that he liked the ball deflated. Not UNDER inflated. You make a leap without any true supporting FACTS. Only your opinion…Not good enough.

    6. Taking the balls to the bathroom – Proves nothing. The data shows that in 75 seconds it is more likely he was taking a leak, not deflating 12 footballs to exactly 12.5 PSI. (Which the measurements after the game show were in line with the Ideal Gas Law.) You know, SCIENCE…based on FACTS not Hater Rumors/Opinions.

    Here’s a FACT, with supporting PROOF for you: Patriots won the Super Bowl last year under the most heightened game day security ever! See ring #4 for the proof.

    We’ll wave to you in the Loser’s Circle on our way to watch the Patriots pick up another trophy.

  183. eddievortex says: Jan 19, 2016 8:35 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:36 PM

    Do Pats fans even realize the people know its possible that a ball could lose pressure in the cold?
    People refuse to accept that as an excuse because of the other circumstantial evidence. Your science experiments prove nothing other than you still don’t understand why people think Brady did it.
    __________________________________Since you’re the factman66, please explain HOW Brady did it! It’s obvious that you’re just a hater, (and probably not just NE), and that you have NO FACTS.

  184. dsigrey says: Jan 19, 2016 8:38 AM

    TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:15 PM
    Check out Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis’s stats with Pats and with everyone else. His fumbles tell a story.
    _________________________________

    So the fumble stats this season mean nothing to you? Haters drinking the kool-aide.

  185. bigtimebullshipper says: Jan 19, 2016 8:46 AM

    I’ve waited all year for one of the networks to conduct their own psi experiment at a cold weather game. How interesting it would have been to see the talking heads at the Vikings playoff game measure a few sample balls on air before the game, then leave them outside for the first half and re-measure them on air at halftime. Mike, can you find out if any of the networks wanted to conduct such a public experiment but were over-ruled by the league ass hats in NY?

  186. pltn2089 says: Jan 19, 2016 8:50 AM

    With the lack of integrity from Goodells office how can anyone believe they will produce accurate number. That office has no credibilty, I will not believe anything they put out.

  187. sonhoodoo says: Jan 19, 2016 8:57 AM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:56 PM
    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to dig into every fathomable facete of why a cheater would cheat or make it their life’s work disproving a negative rolf, we’re talking about “most people” who are non-homers. You see, there’s no particular nobility in your professed allegiance to a team that’s won a few more games than the average team. In fact, it proves what I’ve always said about NE fans, bunch of tweens that haven’t yet experienced the lean times. And brother, this I know, the lean times are a comin, could be as good a time as any to jump off that bandwagon. You guys are so cute though when you flail at little old me.

    ————

    the irony about your post is that while you think you are making a point about Pats fans, you are actually just saying that you chose not to educate yourself on any facts of what happened because you concluded beforehand that they cheat.

    The best part is that you then reveal your envy about rooting for a winner when you start doing the hokey lean times monologue. “You’ll feel as empty inside as I do someday.”

    And lastly, as a Pats fan who has rooted for them since the 70s I have to tell you, since 2000, the Pats have won ALOT more than the average team. I mean a real lot more. Like an insane amount more. My god, Like “Brady has been to more playoff games than your team has won in three regular seasons” more.

  188. qbarrel says: Jan 19, 2016 9:01 AM

    mmack66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:52 PM
    You don’t need a calibrated gauge. You just need to make sure you use the same gauge throughout.

    ————————-

    Sorry, but um….yeah….you do. If you want to ensure that the balls fall within the NFL-mandated oh-so-critical spec of 12.5-13.5 psi you first need to make sure that the gauge has been checked for accuracy. If you use an non-calibrated instrument for all the measurements, then you are taking a relative measurement which will only give you the delta P. It will tell you how much the pressure has changed, but it won’t tell you whether or not any of the balls ever met spec.

  189. alwaters9 says: Jan 19, 2016 9:05 AM

    Even with a year to amass some capital, the haters are still intellectually bankrupt.

  190. zombiepatriot says: Jan 19, 2016 9:13 AM

    @gofor2with3pointlead

    I have experienced the lean times with the first 6 years of being a fan seeing the team go 28 & 68.

    Then Bledsoe became the QB and there was finally some excitement as there were actually some good years as they’d go 67 & 70.

    Along came Brady and a 204 & 64 record and the good times but right away came the sad fans who would challenge me about being a ‘Patriots’ fan while wearing my t-shirt in a bar (the first time it happened I produced the Patriots wallet I had carried since grade 07… over 15 years). It doesn’t happen as regularly around where I live anymore but it’s because more and more people are keyboard warriors as opposed to actually engaging people in public.

    As to the Patriots I’m going to keep cheering and I’m guessing there are going to keep being people who need to yell out bandwagon and dispense their hate on every Patriots related thread because in the end the team you cheer for is simply not very good.

    Yes, there will come a day when things change. Brady can’t play forever and Belichick can’t coach forever but until that time I’m going to enjoy the ride and hope the next QB and coach to come along can reproduce some of the magic of the past 15 years. After all as a fan all I can do is watch and hope and fell sorry for those who have had that hoped ripped away by a team such as the Patriots.

  191. psousa1 says: Jan 19, 2016 9:16 AM

    All you need to know is the NFL had a second set of footballs in the officials room for the second half of the vikes – seahawks game because they were aware the balls would deflate.

    The officials actually forgot to bring the kicking balls to the KC – NE game this weekend and had to go back to their hotel to get them.

  192. steelpenguin6687 says: Jan 19, 2016 9:29 AM

    I am in no way, shape or form a Patriots’ fan, but I think I speak for a lot of people when I say, “Goodell, Give it a Rest”.

    Something “probably” happened, but IF it did, they are never going to prove it, so move on…

    The League office, and the powers that be, should never have been letting the teams have control over the game balls anyway.

    The game balls should be checked before the game starts, and in the sole possession (unless on the field of play) of a league employee until the end of the game…

    It was that simple….

  193. whywerule says: Jan 19, 2016 9:32 AM

    John Harbaugh Is A Sad, Whiney Middle Aged Woman says:
    Jan 19, 2016 7:02 AM
    ….
    All of Brady’s rings have an asterisk, and everybody knows this.

    Yes, and that asterisk stands for…

    Greatest NFL Player and NFL Leader of All-Time

    There just is not enough space on those rings to spell that out, given all the diamonds on the rings.

    (but I do like your handle).

  194. footballfanatic says: Jan 19, 2016 9:45 AM

    sonhoodoo says:
    Jan 19, 2016 8:26 AM

    Now let me explain it to you so you can understand. The balls were all below 12.5 still, one of which was a full 2 psi low. So yes, there is HARD evidence that the balls were significantly low. In fact, they had deflated 1.5 more than Colts lowest ball. The pats balls PSI at halftime have a variance of 1.6 psi from the lowest to the highest……why wouldnt they all deflate at same rate if its due to temperature (which all were subject to)? In ur ridiculous metaphor…….. bob IS still dead, just like the balls were deflated well below the amt the colts balls were, and in ur stupid metaphor, Bill has been been found of murder in the past (just like his team has been found guilty of cheating before), and in ur stupid metaphore his friends talk about going to the cops about Bill. But yes………bill is innocent lol. Common sense dude, u can ignore that all day long, not one fact proves him innocent and no common sense would say brady is innocent.

  195. dandeman19 says: Jan 19, 2016 9:47 AM

    The haters will NEVER accept the truth. The truth the balls were deflated and it is just as likely to have been natural causes than cheating. There is no proof of definite cheating as is there is equal proof of science being the culprit. But the haters will NEVER accept that.

  196. footballfanatic says: Jan 19, 2016 9:51 AM

    its a coincidence the ball boy happened to take the balls to the one place in the stadium w/out cameras. Its a coincidence the ball boy refers to himself as the deflator. its a coincidence the equip guy talks about going to ESPN about Tom Brady. Its a coincidence they were accused of cheating and their footballs were deflated as much as 1.5 psi MORE than any colts ball. Its a coincidence all colts balls registered within .5 of eachother at halftime but the pats balls varied by 1.6 psi from lowest to highest psi. Its a coincidence Tom brady was an advocate of getting rid of low PSI rule b/c he prefers balls to be less inflated and then his balls turned out to be deflated well below the regulation allowed. its a coincidence tom destroyed his phone. Its a coincidence tom called ball boy SIX times after the game……………that could all be true. OR, the known cheaters (yes its a fact the organization and Bill are cheaters since he confessed to spygate) just cheated again. One is extremely unlikely and one is very likely. Its that simple.

  197. greenmtnboy31 says: Jan 19, 2016 9:53 AM

    Cunning Linguist says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:39 PM

    Anyone who trusts anything the league has to say on this subject needs to have their head examined.

    *************************
    BINGO, we have a winner.

    The NFL has no credibility and lacks integrity. At this point, it is obvious that the institution known as the NFL, under Roger Goodell’s “leadership”, simply can not be trusted.

  198. veddermn8 says: Jan 19, 2016 9:53 AM

    osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says: Jan 19, 2016 1:33 AM

    Now I know why people believe in global warming.

    The Ideal Gas Law is not a “scientific principle.” It a hypothetical approximation of how certain “ideal gasses” (which the air in football is NOT) might behave under laboratory conditions. It has never been scientifically proven.

    Extremely misleading post in order to support your biases, Mike. Take my advice and read some scientific literature on the so-called “law.”

    Or better yet just consult Wikipedia.

    ________________

    Or consult your garage on a cold day and try dribbling that basketball you keep out there. I play hoops once a week at a gym and store the ball in my trunk. Every week I need to pop the needle in and give the ball some air so it bounces right because I live in a cold climate. Its not hard to understand.

    And the ideal gas LAW (which is a scientific term that requires a massive amount of verification and research) is described as ” a good approximation to the behavior of many gases under many conditions”.

  199. Mo Pro Babble says: Jan 19, 2016 9:58 AM

    footballfanatic says:
    Jan 19, 2016 9:51 AM
    its a coincidence the ball boy happened to take the balls to the one place in the stadium w/out cameras. Its a coincidence the ball boy refers to himself as the deflator. its a coincidence the equip guy talks about going to ESPN about Tom Brady. Its a coincidence they were accused of cheating and their footballs were deflated as much as 1.5 psi MORE than any colts ball.

    That’s not coincidence, it’s a flat out lie. They didn’t test all of the colts balls. Why do you suppose that is, I mean since you are all about coincidences?

    You’re making my point about Hateroid (lack of ) logic.

  200. thenameisredskins says: Jan 19, 2016 10:00 AM

    footballfanatic says:
    Jan 19, 2016 8:22 AM

    Will pressure drop? yes. Will it drop by 2 full PSI- not even close. If that were the case then balls at Lambeau would drop by 4psi by halftime……..and amazingly no qb has ever noticed this phenomenon? Oh and if the balls lose pressure………they’d all go down at about the same rate seeing as how they are all in the same conditions. All colts balls measured within .5 psi of eachother at halftime, the Pats balls were spread out over 1.6 psi………..weird how their balls just dropped random amounts while the Colts balls all dropped about the same amount.
    *****************************************
    Then please explain why 4 tires on a vehicle, all inflated to the same 35 PSI will lose pressure to varying amounts? With the recent temperature drop in Maryland, the tires on my jeep, which are all new, lost 6 PSI on one tire, 4 PSI on two tires and 3 PSI on one tire. When the temps go back up, and I drive the vehicle, using friction on the road to heat the tires up, the pressure goes back up on all 4 tires. This is not some kind of voodoo science. It’s normal.

  201. dandeman19 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:01 AM

    OK did you have your toilet cam in there? Walt Anderson said that is not uncommon for equip ppl to use or not use the refs lockerroom toilet

    The deflator thing started in May of the year before so said the date of the text

    Your deflate numbers are wrong one ball was that deflated the rest not as much

    Brady and P Manning were advocates and the league had them get a petition going that many QBs signed

    Tom destroyed his phone after Wells said he did NOT need it per the Wells report

    Last allegation are one thing proof is another so I ask another hater who’ll run as that is what they do Aside from 07 when have the Pats cheated?

  202. dandeman19 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:03 AM

    Obviously the other guy has never had to pee either out of nowhere after being outside

  203. Patskrieg says: Jan 19, 2016 10:03 AM

    Possible ways this will play out:

    Scenario 1: The study shows no conclusive results or advantage gained from PSI one way or another. Failing any evidence to throw this back at the Patriots, the media dubs this a non-story and pretends that they never cared about PSI in the first place.

    Scenario 2: The study shows no conclusive results or advantage gained from PSI one way or another. Some random blog puts together a series of charts and graphs that no one could possibly understand beside the person who wrote it, claiming that it proves the Patriots cheated. Slobs like Bob Kravitz will retweet it 6 months later, and no one who pretends to believe it will ever read anything but the headline, even long after it is debunked.

    Scenario 3: The study shows no conclusive results or advantage gained from PSI one way or another. Idiots nationwide will still cling to their belief that they don’t need facts of any kind, despite massive factual evidence to the contrary.

  204. dudeicle says: Jan 19, 2016 10:09 AM

    So…. if the Patriots advance and the numbers favor the league…. the psi values will be released.

  205. letmefeelyourlove says: Jan 19, 2016 10:12 AM

    footballfanatic says:
    Jan 19, 2016 8:22 AM

    All colts balls measured within .5 psi of eachother at halftime, the Pats balls were spread out over 1.6 psi………..weird how their balls just dropped random amounts while the Colts balls all dropped about the same amount
    ____________________________________

    Not weird at all.

    The Patriots ran 15 of the final 16 plays at the end of the first half (the last play of the half was a Colts’ kneel down). The play clock stopped numerous times during the Pats’ drive. There were three incomplete passes, three time outs, plus the two minute warning. Where were the Colts’ balls during all the time? They were in a ball bag protected from the elements. And they remained in that bag until half time was nearly over.

    What happens when you put a bunch of footballs together in a closed environment like a ball bag? The warmer footballs will cool off while the colder footballs will warm up. In fact, leave them together long enough and the temperature of all the footballs will be the same.

    So, here’s the bottom line. The Colts’ footballs would have been closer in temperature to one another compared to the Pats’ footballs, since the Colt’s footballs were kept together in a ball bag while the Pats’ footballs were in play. This means the psi of the Colts’ footballs should have varied less than the psi of the Pats’ footballs. It would have been weird if that had not been the case.

  206. veddermn8 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:17 AM

    If we are going to follow the NFL’s logic that since Brady got rid of his phone (but still gave all cell data and went even further and provided emails which the league promptly leaked to the public) that means he was involved in a “scheme” because he “destroyed evidence” and needed to be suspended 4 games, why hasn’t Cam Newton or any other Carolina Panther been suspended? They get rid of evidence every home game when they give away footballs after a TD. And with the new random testing protocols, that seems like tampering with the evidence.

    What a farce, the league doesn’t care about football air pressure at all. Goodell just wanted to assert his power, period.

  207. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 10:17 AM

    Maybe we can look forward to Exponent recording the measurements despite the fact they can’t seem to understand that the variances between two different gauges means it’s impossible to have the same starting PSI.

  208. rob471773 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:26 AM

    Translation: IF the PATRIOTS make the Super Bowl, the NFL will release some cherry picked PSI measurements that support the NFL’s case and the Wells Report. The NFL is still butt-hurt that the Patriots are dominating the sport despite their best efforts to rail road them. The NFL is still bitter about getting publicly embarrassed and they need to resort to creating another fictional controversy out of thin air.

    The only way I would even consider looking at these results would be if they were done by a scientific research company mutually agreed upon by the NFL and the NFLPA, the process would also have to be extremely well documented with ZERO NFL or NFLPA involvement in the process. The NFL should find out about the measurements the same time the public does. The and only then could the results be trusted.

    I can see it now, the NFL will pick a handful of games, the NFL will have full control of the testing process and recording of the numbers with no other witnesses. They’ll probably take the balls out of cold weather games, put them in a 78 degree room for 2 hours and then test.

    NFL is not to be trusted, anything they say on this will be disregarded by any reasonable person.

  209. greggallmansliver says: Jan 19, 2016 10:30 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 8:23 PM
    Nobody other than Pats fans care. They’ll scream “Told you so, haters” and proclaim it’s proof of no foul play.
    The rest of us won’t forget the lobbying for rule changes by Brady to allow me offenses to prepare their own game balls, the Deflator, the texts, the destroyed cell phone, the Deflator taking illegally taking the footballs into a bathroom, the league wide rumors, and quote from Brady saying he likes his footballs a bit underinflated.
    Deniable plausibility means nothing to free thinking people when they analyze facts

    ________________________________________

    * Brady and Manning lobbied the NFL with most QB’s signing off.
    * Deflator – it was his job, as documented in Wells report he received the box of balls from the league. First thing he did was deflate them to the minimum
    * Illegally take balls to bathroom??? The law covers no such thing. Wells report indicates not uncommon.
    * League wide rumors = Facts????? what rumors?
    * Brady said he liked balls at minimum

    No substance bro. Need to change your handle.

  210. lscottman3 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:35 AM

    looking at why some people continue to disregard the facts of this issue it becomes apparent that people want to believe what is convenient. Look at Chris Carter for example and his pronouncements regarding Chandler Jones. It was his true hatred of the Patriots, probably coming from ending his carreer with the Dolphins, that predisposes his corrupt mind to say Jones smoked PCP.

    people don’t understand that around NE we see reminders of our past revolutionary attitudes regarding despots and unfair treatment. We see this and we cannot sit idly by and let such a travesty of misjustice continue. Yes we protest, its in our DNA.

    We know the facts and we know at the end of the day justice will triumph, and if it doesn’t we will never forget.

  211. sonhoodoo says: Jan 19, 2016 10:37 AM

    footballfanatic says:
    Jan 19, 2016 9:45 AM
    sonhoodoo says:
    Jan 19, 2016 8:26 AM

    Now let me explain it to you so you can understand. The balls were all below 12.5 still, one of which was a full 2 psi low. So yes, there is HARD evidence that the balls were significantly low. In fact, they had deflated 1.5 more than Colts lowest ball. The pats balls PSI at halftime have a variance of 1.6 psi from the lowest to the highest……why wouldnt they all deflate at same rate if its due to temperature (which all were subject to)? In ur ridiculous metaphor…….. bob IS still dead, just like the balls were deflated well below the amt the colts balls were, and in ur stupid metaphor, Bill has been been found of murder in the past (just like his team has been found guilty of cheating before), and in ur stupid metaphore his friends talk about going to the cops about Bill. But yes………bill is innocent lol. Common sense dude, u can ignore that all day long, not one fact proves him innocent and no common sense would say brady is innocent.
    —————–
    No one said the footballs didn’t lose psi. Clearly they did. The point, which the poster I responded to admitted, is that they lost pressure due to entirely explainable physical laws. The point being – nothing actually happened except in the tiny tired minds of those who cite “common sense” without having any.

    And, I am not sure where you are from, but you seem to laboring under the theory that people have to prove their innocence. They don’t. You need to demonstrate guilt and in a case where you can’t even show something happened, you can’t demonstrate anything.

  212. tim8450 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:39 AM

    The league is not content to ruin one superbowl, they are going for a two-fer. What a waste.

    What a way to diminish the game just to prove, what point? That the Pats get their wins by cheating? That they don’t fumble because they like the balls at the low end of the acceptable range? I think they have proved this year that this was not the case.

    It’s well known that Gronk-spiking the footballs causes measurable deflation. Let’s hope those footballs measure a little bit low at halftime and the end of the game due to the weather and massive repeated touchdown spiking.

  213. bullcharger says: Jan 19, 2016 10:41 AM

    patsfiend says:
    Jan 19, 2016 7:54 AM

    @bullcharger. I hear ya, but look at it this way, if the data is not legit, we’ll all know it the second it comes out. I think if anything the distraction steels the Pats, so bring it on.

    ———

    Good point… and there’s probably enough critical mass in the media to pick apart any kind of unfair summary of the data.

  214. gassiusclay says: Jan 19, 2016 10:45 AM

    so this story is now being reported OBJECTIVELY, but wasnt when it first broke…makes no sense

  215. eddievortex says: Jan 19, 2016 10:46 AM

    A fourth-grader in Sacramento discredited the science of the Wells report for her school science fair project. She actually proved the NFL wrong.

    Hmmm, that pretty much surmises the folks over at 345 Park Avenue…4th graders!

  216. mmack66 says: Jan 19, 2016 10:47 AM

    qbarrel says:
    Jan 19, 2016 9:01 AM

    mmack66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:52 PM
    You don’t need a calibrated gauge. You just need to make sure you use the same gauge throughout.

    ————————-

    Sorry, but um….yeah….you do. If you want to ensure that the balls fall within the NFL-mandated oh-so-critical spec of 12.5-13.5 psi you first need to make sure that the gauge has been checked for accuracy. If you use an non-calibrated instrument for all the measurements, then you are taking a relative measurement which will only give you the delta P. It will tell you how much the pressure has changed, but it won’t tell you whether or not any of the balls ever met spec.
    —————————–

    At this point, the only thing that matters is showing that the footballs do in fact lose pressure due to cold temperatures.

  217. bleedsoe9mm says: Jan 19, 2016 10:49 AM

    if it shows even a minor drop in psi (which it will) the pats should no only get their fines and picks back , they should get a public apology they also should get an extra 1st this year and an extra 2nd next year as compensation .

  218. peopletrains says: Jan 19, 2016 10:57 AM

    This is just an issue to take the attention away from concussions.

  219. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 11:05 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:42 PM
    I love the fact that Pats fans hang on every word I type. Responding to Mr. Hashtag is beneath my dignity. I don’t play children’s games.
    ===========
    Probably because the child would win.

  220. mmack66 says: Jan 19, 2016 11:07 AM

    osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:33 AM

    Now I know why people believe in global warming.

    The Ideal Gas Law is not a “scientific principle.”
    ——————————-

    So you are still maintaining the position that objects filled with air are unaffected by temperature?

  221. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 11:13 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:36 PM
    Do Pats fans even realize the people know its possible that a ball could lose pressure in the cold?
    People refuse to accept that as an excuse because of the other circumstantial evidence. Your science experiments prove nothing other than you still don’t understand why people think Brady did it.
    ==================
    You honestly believe the NFL even has a case without the Exponent fabrications? Ummmm … ok. That is literally hilarious.

  222. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 11:14 AM

    factman66 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:37 PM
    Charlie Sly was most likely a Pats fan. Would anyone be surprised if he was?
    ===============
    So now Manning cheating is the Pats fault?

  223. Mo Pro Babble says: Jan 19, 2016 11:15 AM

    I can understand hating the Patriots for ruining your dreams but what is it about some people that they need to return here daily to prove their ignorance? I’m hoping it’s just a fan thing since the thought of Hateroids behind the wheel of a car scares me to death. The total disconnect from reality suggested that the whole red/green/yellow light thingy might be a bit too sciencey.

  224. DennisT says: Jan 19, 2016 11:16 AM

    As some with an MPH in environmental Epidemiology and an MD and a published researcher I can say that it is very easy to cook data to manipulate results.

    In fact It is so easy that sometimes the best scientists in the world do it AND DONT EVEN REALIZE IT!!!! So Even if they release data you have to ask if it is quality data or if it biased, flawed or cherry picked. Or as the saying goes among my statistician colleagues “Garbage In= Garbage Out”

  225. harrisonhits2 says: Jan 19, 2016 11:17 AM

    “The Ideal Gas Law is not a “scientific principle.” It a hypothetical approximation of how certain “ideal gasses” (which the air in football is NOT) might behave under laboratory conditions. It has never been scientifically proven.”

    There it is, the most stupid thing I’ll ready all day.

    Uh, the Idea Gas Law was proven fact in something like 1700s I believe. Its been an established fact for hundreds of years.

    It effects all gasses and there is a huge amount of real world empirical data that shows it is a fact.

    Keep denying science though. I imagine you must get really fearful when you get on a plane and are worried the engine elves might not have enough magic pixie dust for the plane to fly all the way to the destination.

    SMH

  226. osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says: Jan 19, 2016 11:33 AM

    harrisonhits2 says:
    Jan 19, 2016 11:17 AM

    “The Ideal Gas Law is not a “scientific principle.” It a hypothetical approximation of how certain “ideal gasses” (which the air in football is NOT) might behave under laboratory conditions. It has never been scientifically proven.”

    There it is, the most stupid thing I’ll ready all day.

    Uh, the Idea Gas Law was proven fact in something like 1700s I believe. Its been an established fact for hundreds of years.

    It effects all gasses and there is a huge amount of real world empirical data that shows it is a fact.

    Keep denying science though. I imagine you must get really fearful when you get on a plane and are worried the engine elves might not have enough magic pixie dust for the plane to fly all the way to the destination.

    SMH
    ———————————————————
    Actually, I’m an aerospace engineer and author of 6 books on space flight, physics and planetary science. I’ll quote from Wikipedia so you can understand it:

    “The ideal gas law is the equation of state of a HYPOTHETICAL ideal gas. It is a good APPROXIMATION to the behavior of many gases under many conditions, although it has several LIMITATIONS.”

    Just FYI, one of those “limitations” is in regard to the behavior of football bladders in stadiums at 52 degrees.

  227. ss9203 says: Jan 19, 2016 11:40 AM

    Does anyone else see this potential release the week before the Superbowl as troubling as I do? There is no reason why the NFL would be doing it at this time unless they just want to push their agenda and control the narrative and slam the Patriots…I can almost smell the leak to ESPN hours before its release already. Goodell will be asked why release it now, and he’ll spew off some nonsense about the “integrity” of the game and thought it was fair to share. Of course it will be biased and will grab headlines, only to be debunked by the same rational people that killed the Wells report (but by then it may be too late). I just have a bad feeling about this one.

  228. paulrevereshorse1775 says: Jan 19, 2016 11:42 AM

    I wonder if Pash will “numbersmith” the results

  229. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 11:47 AM

    footballfanatic says:
    Jan 19, 2016 9:51 AM
    its a coincidence the ball boy happened to take the balls to the one place in the stadium w/out cameras. Its a coincidence the ball boy refers to himself as the deflator. its a coincidence the equip guy talks about going to ESPN about Tom Brady. Its a coincidence they were accused of cheating and their footballs were deflated as much as 1.5 psi MORE than any colts ball. Its a coincidence all colts balls registered within .5 of eachother at halftime but the pats balls varied by 1.6 psi from lowest to highest psi. Its a coincidence Tom brady was an advocate of getting rid of low PSI rule b/c he prefers balls to be less inflated and then his balls turned out to be deflated well below the regulation allowed. its a coincidence tom destroyed his phone. Its a coincidence tom called ball boy SIX times after the game……………that could all be true. OR, the known cheaters (yes its a fact the organization and Bill are cheaters since he confessed to spygate) just cheated again. One is extremely unlikely and one is very likely. Its that simple.
    ==============
    How confident are you that one or both of us can find 4 Patriots balls within .5 PSI of each other from the AFCCG? I’m more than willing to bet significant money you aren’t willing to take on that effort.

    Brady was never an advocate of getting rid of the low PSI rule. I suspect you are conflating that with his petition to change how footballs are prepared.

    Was there anything the NFL couldn’t have gotten from the phone logs from the destroyed phone that couldn’t have been gotten with the phone itself? More importantly, if the NFL felt that information was so vital why didn’t they do anything with the information they specifically asked for when it was provided? Any chance you realize McNally walked into that bathroom with James Daniel (NFL official) standing outside.

    Is it a coincidence that all QBs provide memorabilia to equipment staff members despite it being illegal? Could that possibly explain the ESPN reference?

    In the end the only thing that holds this sham together is the deflator text. The science and all of these so called coincidences have all been explained ad naseum.

  230. wensink18 says: Jan 19, 2016 11:50 AM

    The Patriots should easily advance to the Super Bowl. It will be tough to win it should they play Carolina. Good news is…they should be in it again next year. Point: all of this foolishness about p.s.i. is a waste of time. Any person of reasonable intelligence agrees.

  231. lscottman3 says: Jan 19, 2016 11:51 AM

    osiris

    Actually, I’m an aerospace engineer and author of 6 books on space flight, physics and planetary science. I’ll quote from Wikipedia so you can understand it:
    ==================================

    so you are an author of 6 books and an aerospace engineer, and you are quoting from wikipedia…..LMAO

    really, and you bold the word hypothetical seemingly not understanding it is the gas that is hypothetical in the equation and there is a different constant that is used for different gases to ensure the equation works with different gases. But as an aerospace engineer you knew that, right?

    Unless your degree was from a matchbook cover?

    Please, tell me you do not believe that in a confined area, such as the bladder of a football, that as the temperature decrease that the pressure inside the bladder does not decrease.

    Tell me please oh mr aerospace engineer, author of 6 books, or maybe you need to revisit wilipedia!

  232. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 19, 2016 11:53 AM

    It’s simple.

    The NFL front office fabricated every single thing about this case to date.

    Why would any intelligent football fan in existence believe anything they have to say now?
    :)

  233. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 19, 2016 11:55 AM

    peopletrains says:
    Jan 19, 2016 10:57 AM

    This is just an issue to take the attention away from concussions.
    —-
    And – wait a sec…coughghghg hghghgh hghghghgh

    Ahem. Now where was I….
    :)

  234. dingusgenius says: Jan 19, 2016 11:55 AM

    An aerospace engineer citing Wiki….

    LOL

    “I’m not an aerospace engineer, but I play one on the Internet”.

  235. wantsomecheesewiththatwhine says: Jan 19, 2016 11:59 AM

    They had the means, the equipment, the people and the potential for incredible amounts of data.
    But… they didn’t…. and now they say they will release data… I bet you that the data will be under 10000 readings…. At best.
    —————————–
    more like the 12 from the minnesota game

  236. dingusgenius says: Jan 19, 2016 11:59 AM

    Wait…there’s actually a guy in here denying global warming and the ideal gas law?

    This country is screwed.

  237. rolf1015 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:03 PM

    Actually, I’m an aerospace engineer and author of 6 books on space flight, physics and planetary science.
    _______________

    That’s great. So if the Patriot footballs started at 12.5 psi (measured indoors) – what would you expect the psi to have been immediately at the start of halftime of the AFCCG?

  238. mmack66 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:04 PM

    ss9203 says:
    Jan 19, 2016 11:40 AM

    Does anyone else see this potential release the week before the Superbowl as troubling as I do? There is no reason why the NFL would be doing it at this time unless they just want to push their agenda and control the narrative and slam the Patriots…I can almost smell the leak to ESPN hours before its release already. Goodell will be asked why release it now, and he’ll spew off some nonsense about the “integrity” of the game and thought it was fair to share. Of course it will be biased and will grab headlines, only to be debunked by the same rational people that killed the Wells report (but by then it may be too late). I just have a bad feeling about this one.
    ——————-

    The league can’t afford to release more horse sh*t related to football pressure. Everyone, except for osiris33, knows that footballs are affected by temperature.

  239. lscottman3 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:08 PM

    hey osiris the aerospace engineer and physics expert, are you sheldon, leonard or howard?

  240. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 12:10 PM

    Will pressure drop? yes. Will it drop by 2 full PSI- not even close. If that were the case then balls at Lambeau would drop by 4psi by halftime……..and amazingly no qb has ever noticed this phenomenon? Oh and if the balls lose pressure………they’d all go down at about the same rate seeing as how they are all in the same conditions. All colts balls measured within .5 psi of eachother at halftime, the Pats balls were spread out over 1.6 psi………..weird how their balls just dropped random amounts while the Colts balls all dropped about the same amount.
    ===
    So many assumptions. So much misinformation.

    Let me clear a few things up for you…

    Spread results: Balls were not used/stored uniformly, and how they were used/stored is unkown. Therefore they were not necessarily the same temperature when brought to locker room, and their initial state (wet/dry/temperature) is unknown. Balls were measured while warming, meaning their temperature was unstable and unknown.

    Lack of spread on Colts balls: Colts ball sample size is smaller (12 vs 4) and Colts balls were measured at the end of half time. This gives them more time to warm to locker room conditions. If you graph the T vs time curves of a number of identical objects of different temperatures warming (or cooling) to the temperature of their surroundings, you will see their plots converge at the temperature of the surrounds. Thus, if you measure them later in that process, the spread between them will appear small.

    2 PSI Drop: Balls did not drop 2 PSI. Largest drop was about 1.5 when measured on Logo gauge – which was the one WA remembered using pregame. 1.5 is about exactly the drop you’d expect to see in these conditions.

    4 PSI @ 0 F: Yes. That’s about right. It’s really about a 3.5 PSI drop. That’s how physics works. Don’t ask me why no one has ever noticed, but it’s probably because their hands are cold and the leather is stiff.

  241. mmack66 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:11 PM

    osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says:
    Jan 19, 2016 11:33 AM

    Actually, I’m an aerospace engineer and author of 6 books on space flight, physics and planetary science. I’ll quote from Wikipedia so you can understand it:
    ————————————

    Most hilarious delusion I have read yet!

    Why would the air inside of a bladder inside of a football react to cold temperatures any differently than every other object that is filled with air?

  242. imodan says: Jan 19, 2016 12:16 PM

    Once again factman66 throws out chum into the water, we bite and he set’s the hook. C’mon people! We all know he does it simply for the attention his mamma never gave him. Stop replying. Stop clicking thumbs down. We are better than this. The troll feeds on attention. Let’s starve him and move him to another feeding ground.

  243. davedsone says: Jan 19, 2016 12:18 PM

    I have learned not to care what the NFL does, or other fans think. Both of them appear to be skewed/stupid/hateful, and I have lost interest in the idea that somehow fairness will be restored. I’m ON TO #5.

  244. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 12:18 PM

    Actually, I’m an aerospace engineer and author of 6 books on space flight, physics and planetary science. I’ll quote from Wikipedia so you can understand it:

    “The ideal gas law is the equation of state of a HYPOTHETICAL ideal gas. It is a good APPROXIMATION to the behavior of many gases under many conditions, although it has several LIMITATIONS.”

    Just FYI, one of those “limitations” is in regard to the behavior of football bladders in stadiums at 52 degrees.
    ===
    No, it’s not. IGL was approximated with work on steam engines. That means it’s perfectly accurate from atmospheric to 250 PSI and shirtsleeve to 1000 F. If you’re really a physicist you’d know that that limitation is referring to VDW interactions.

    But I don’t think you are a physicist. Tell us… what book have you written?

  245. gwhite13 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:27 PM

    Of course they will, right after AFC finals. Ha Ha HA HA HA HA Ha Ha Ha.

  246. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 12:33 PM

    rolf1015 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 10:36 PM
    Well, if you are seeking real facts and “evidence” you can find it right in the Wells Report:

    pg 113:
    “The Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half”

    pg 52:
    “Anderson’s best recollection is that he used the Logo Gauge”.

    pg 8:
    Avg. psi of Patriot footballs at halftime with the Logo Gauge was 11.49 psi.
    ============
    Adding to this, the NFL, Exponent and Wells wants us to believe that Walt Anderson is not capable of remembering which gauge he used despite the more than obvious physical differences beyond the logo. Missing logo, larger needle and a needle with more of a bend = Walt Anderson not able to remember which logo he used.

  247. gisellichek says: Jan 19, 2016 12:33 PM

    Thanks Mike… Excellent summary as usual.

    Why would the League release any data at all … it is a blatant and clear conflict of interest.

    Reason 1.
    The Patriots have been punished already… (Severely) … so lets say the data supports (what we all know is the truth) that there was no tampering… and the League sends data that supports this , what then??? Do the Pats get the 1M and the draft picks back? Why would they do that???

    Reason 2.
    The League has already proven to be liars … why would you believe anything published by them at all?… so the only thing that makes sense is wait and see if the Patriots get into the Super Bowl and then publish a report that the data collected supports the leagues assumptions of tampering… ruin super bowl week again for the Patriots and then control the story going into the Brady appeal hearing!!!

    I pick 2!

  248. dingusgenius says: Jan 19, 2016 12:36 PM

    It’s always hilarious when some armchair Internet “scientist” claims to be something he is so obviously not and then gets summarily owned.

    Well done gents .

  249. veddermn8 says: Jan 19, 2016 12:37 PM

    Wells report and MIT study both concluded Pats ball that day should have been between 11.2 to 11.5 with an accurate gauge.

    If you average both gauges, which varied quite a bit from one another, the Patriots footballs measured in at 11.3….perfectly acceptable. Case closed.

  250. grumpyoleman says: Jan 19, 2016 12:40 PM

    Nobody with a life cares

  251. imodan says: Jan 19, 2016 12:43 PM

    How come the folks here who claim the pats broke rules always ignore the FACT that the Colts illegally inserted a gauge into a game ball on the sideline? A clear, admitted violation. Why was that ball excluded when the league started testing at halftime? Pats fans want consistency and fairness both of which were never applied in the debacle known as deflategate. If the league indeed does release psi data within that timeframe the leadership removes all doubt as to their qualifications to hold those positions. They aren’t. Unless of course, that leadership continues to be pressed by owners who demand a level playing field against New England no matter how many broken laws it takes. Integrity? Meh.

  252. imodan says: Jan 19, 2016 12:47 PM

    osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says:
    Jan 19, 2016 11:33 AM

    Actually, I’m an aerospace engineer and author of 6 books on space flight, physics and planetary science. I’ll quote from Wikipedia so you can understand it:
    ——————————————————-
    Hey genius? Maybe next time quote from one of your 6 books so we can verify your authorship of said books. Wiki? Man I’ve seen some beauts here before but this one might just take the prize.

  253. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 12:56 PM

    gofor2with3pointlead says:
    Jan 18, 2016 11:56 PM
    Most sane people have neither the time nor the inclination to dig into every fathomable facete of why a cheater would cheat …
    ================
    Apparently you were born after 1990 or you’d more than realize why Patriots fans are so annoying. It’s funny you think Patriots fans are going to stop rubbing it in when\if the lean years ever arrive.

  254. fanofschill says: Jan 19, 2016 1:06 PM

    Only way anything can be be believed is if whenever they tracked the PSI at certain games both teams had representatives at halftime and both teams signed off on the results. Based on how they f’d up the process when they thought something was going on I can’t imagine how bad this process went.

  255. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 1:12 PM

    osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:33 AM
    Now I know why people believe in global warming.

    The Ideal Gas Law is not a “scientific principle.” It a hypothetical approximation of how certain “ideal gasses” (which the air in football is NOT) might behave under laboratory conditions. It has never been scientifically proven.

    Extremely misleading post in order to support your biases, Mike. Take my advice and read some scientific literature on the so-called “law.”

    Or better yet just consult Wikipedia.
    ===================
    Ok let’s just consult Wikipedia …

    “Many gases such as nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, noble gases, and some heavier gases like carbon dioxide can be treated like ideal gases within reasonable tolerances.”

    I’m guessing you already know what two gasses make up the air in a football. For those who do not, 99% of the air in the football is made up of nitrogen and oxygen. So I’m at a loss to explain why you feel air in a football is somehow not “ideal”. Maybe somehow nitrogen and oxygen are not really gasses? Regardless if it’s actually the ideal gas law or not I’m fairly certain there must be “something” that rationally explains how air could be lost naturally. Even if we’re struggling with applying the correct scientific principle behind this mysterious “phenomenon”.

  256. dumbaseinstien says: Jan 19, 2016 1:14 PM

    Florio’s article suggests it’s been proven that air pressure dropped by 2 psi due to temperature changes. Psi would drop over time & in lower temperatures, but how long would it take for it to drop 2 PSI in those same circumstances? Am I the only one who finds it telling that after all the money spent by the defense team to debunk these accusations, that no scientific testing has been completed recreating those same weather conditions & how those translate to psi? Why do you think that is? Well, I propose it’s a virtual certainty that the defense team has completed numerous scientific tests & the results have failed to prove that psi can drop by that amount, in that amount of time & at those temperatures. Thus, it has become more effective to just play the hypothetical propaganda game rather than the hard & true proven facts game…like text messages, actual air pressure measurements & the opposing players ability to physically notice the variation in Patriot’s ball’s density compared to Colts balls. Facts are always the inconvenient problem child of any guilty parties defense…regardless of how much money they have to spend on misdirection techniques.

  257. bigbits2 says: Jan 19, 2016 1:17 PM

    Unless they tell us exactly how quickly [to the minute] the footballs were tested after taking them back inside, the numbers will be completely worthless.

  258. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 1:21 PM

    BTW, Osiris (if that is your real name):

    VDW’s equations say that a football that starts at 294 K and 27.2 PSI will measure 25.5 PSI at 277 K. As I’m sure you’re aware, VDW’s equations account for the behaviors of Real Gasses.

  259. larryodavid says: Jan 19, 2016 1:37 PM

    dagator8888 says:
    Jan 18, 2016 9:11 PM
    Please quit with the Pats apologies. They cheated. Everyone knows it and it has been an issue for years. They have been caught so many times with their hand in the cookie jar that the explanations are ludicrous. Yes, weather affects balls, but for both teams not for only one! Combine that with the pages with “the deflator” and Brady destroying his phone just enforces that they are systemic and coordinated cheaters. Anyone that thinks having an underinflated football in rain or cold is not an advantage then they have never played the game. Check out Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis’s stats with Pats and with everyone else. His fumbles tell a story.

    ______________________________________

    Almost everything you wrote is false. Wells/Exponent/NFL lawyers (in federal court) all admit they have no evidence the balls were deflated. How is it that even after all the Exponent numbers are debunked, including that bit about the Colts balls being “less deflated”, some holdouts still exist?

    If “they’ve been doing it for years” I have lots of questions. How have they avoided detection? When they do eventually measure the footballs, after all these years, they don’t find any deflated footballs? How does that make sense? What is wrong with the NFL rulebook that it cannot be effectively enforced?

    At this point you are in the minority. How many conversations have you had where it goes, “Yeah, the balls weren’t deflated BUT Tom Brady still cheated.”

  260. mmack66 says: Jan 19, 2016 1:43 PM

    dumbaseinstien says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:14 PM

    Florio’s article suggests it’s been proven that air pressure dropped by 2 psi due to temperature changes. Psi would drop over time & in lower temperatures, but how long would it take for it to drop 2 PSI in those same circumstances? Am I the only one who finds it telling that after all the money spent by the defense team to debunk these accusations, that no scientific testing has been completed recreating those same weather conditions & how those translate to psi? Why do you think that is? Well, I propose it’s a virtual certainty that the defense team has completed numerous scientific tests & the results have failed to prove that psi can drop by that amount, in that amount of time & at those temperatures. Thus, it has become more effective to just play the hypothetical propaganda game rather than the hard & true proven facts game…like text messages, actual air pressure measurements & the opposing players ability to physically notice the variation in Patriot’s ball’s density compared to Colts balls. Facts are always the inconvenient problem child of any guilty parties defense…regardless of how much money they have to spend on misdirection techniques.
    ———————–

    Exponent, the paid “scientific” consultants for the Pash Report already did the tests, and concluded that the pressure in the footballs would drop to a level consistent with what the readings were when they were taken at halftime.

    They even stated that no evidence of tampering could be deduced from the data. It’s right there in the footnotes.

  261. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 1:48 PM

    Psi would drop over time & in lower temperatures, but how long would it take for it to drop 2 PSI in those same circumstances?
    ===
    It was in TWR. They called them, “Transient temperature graphs”, or something like that. They showed the pressure (an analogue for temperature) of a ball being moved from a cold environment to a warm one. Yes, there was some fudging when they constructed and labeled the graphs, but the basic principle was correct.

    Theoretically speaking, though: on a T vs Time graph, most of the delta-T will be in the moments immediately following the introduction of the object to the environment. This is because heat flow is dependent on temperature difference, and the temperature difference is greatest at the beginning of such a period.

    Not coincidentally: this is why using the Colts balls – measured at the end of halftime – is a terrible control vis-a-vis NE’s balls. IND’s balls, having been allowed to warm for a longer period of time were closer to their original T/P and any difference in initial T/P had been minimized – making the spread smaller.

    There’s a really good 5th grade science project in this…

  262. larryodavid says: Jan 19, 2016 1:50 PM

    dumbaseinstien says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:14 PM
    ….. Thus, it has become more effective to just play the hypothetical propaganda game rather than the hard & true proven facts game…like text messages, actual air pressure measurements & the opposing players ability to physically notice the variation in Patriot’s ball’s density compared to Colts balls. Facts are always the inconvenient problem child of any guilty parties defense…regardless of how much money they have to spend on misdirection techniques.

    ________________________________________

    Many of these are not facts. I guess “text messages” are things that exist, but what fact links the two incidents to each other? In order to prove a ball deflation scheme, the facts need to center on whether the balls were deflated. The reason why the science is important is that “actual air pressure” as you say, is dependent on a number of very important factors. People have done the measurements using footballs, and the results have been published ad nauseum. Exponent did it, and led Wells to conclude that there was no evidence the balls were artificially deflated. In terms of “opposing players ability” I’m not really sure what to say. I think that player was on the record saying he kept the ball as a trophy, not because he noticed a pressure difference.

    It seems you are picking “facts” that predispose your opinion. Just like the NFL. Mike’s just trying to inject some sanity into the conversation.

  263. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 1:52 PM

    Unless they tell us exactly how quickly [to the minute] the footballs were tested after taking them back inside, the numbers will be completely worthless.
    ===
    I would argue it needs to be to the second to be even mildly interesting. Most of the T change will be at the beginning of any period following a transition. Minutes aren’t granular enough for this kind of thing, but seconds could allow some sort of calculation.

    To be truly interesting, though, they need to actually measure the ball temperature with an IR thermometer or else measure them in game conditions, or both.

  264. gstorm0 says: Jan 19, 2016 2:14 PM

    As for the theory they have been doing this for years, why did the Wells investigation not look deeper into that? They had the texts but they didn’t take them seriously until they realized their investigation was coming up empty and by then the Patriots were saying no more interviews.

  265. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 2:29 PM

    As for the theory they have been doing this for years, why did the Wells investigation not look deeper into that? They had the texts but they didn’t take them seriously until they realized their investigation was coming up empty and by then the Patriots were saying no more interviews.
    ===
    And how would Wells and company have investigated something where there is no data (games prior to the ’14-’15 AFCCG) instead of poor quality data? Even Ted Wells knows that if you simply invent a story from whole cloth, someone will call you out on it. Probably.

  266. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 2:41 PM

    The fact that Kensil was leading the sting it shouldn’t be a surprise that basic scientific method wasn’t followed. The irony is the same people claiming Exponent wasn’t debunked by a neutral “scientist” fail to recognize the reason the data was a mess to begin with was because it was gathered by a non-scientist that apparently either failed 5th grade or completely forgot the 1000 year old process for collecting scientific data.

  267. rolf1015 says: Jan 19, 2016 2:53 PM

    smasonsmith says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:48 PM
    Psi would drop over time & in lower temperatures, but how long would it take for it to drop 2 PSI in those same circumstances?
    _____________________
    But none of the footballs dropped 2 PSI – that was from the erroneous Mort Report. If you believe Walt Anderson, the LOWEST ball measured at 1.6 below, but the AVERAGE drop was 1 PSI, which is the exact range TWR predicted.

  268. mmack66 says: Jan 19, 2016 2:53 PM

    The only thing that Wells was tasked to do was to try and find out if the footballs used by the Patriots in the AFCCG were tampered with after the referee inspection.

    That’s it.

    Failing to do that, Wells/Pash, and the rest of the flunkies in the league office tried to claim there was some ongoing scheme to deflate footballs, even there isn’t one shred of evidence of anyone ever discussing such a scheme.

    This is one of the reasons that Judge Berman overturned Brady’s suspension, because the NFL failed to show that anyone deflated any of those footballs.

  269. fireroger says: Jan 19, 2016 2:57 PM

    mmack66 says:
    Jan 19, 2016 2:53 PM
    |
    This is one of the reasons that Judge Berman overturned Brady’s suspension, because the NFL failed to show that anyone deflated any of those footballs.
    ================
    That’s not really true. Technically, Berman vacated the decision because the NFL failed to provide the necessary notice needed to fine\suspend a player for being generally aware of deflating footballs.

  270. dingusgenius says: Jan 19, 2016 3:08 PM

    “& the opposing players ability to physically notice the variation in Patriot’s ball’s density compared to Colts balls.”

    Facts? LOL

    This statement tells everyone all they need to know about you and what you know about this incident.

    The notion that Jackson alerted the Colts equipment staff about the football was dispelled a YEAR ago. The audacity to spew nonsense and attempt to pawn it off as fact makes whatever else you have to say completely meaningless because you’re either lying or uninformed.

  271. smasonsmith says: Jan 19, 2016 3:10 PM

    rolf1015 says:
    Jan 19, 2016 2:53 PM

    smasonsmith says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:48 PM
    Psi would drop over time & in lower temperatures, but how long would it take for it to drop 2 PSI in those same circumstances?
    _____________________
    But none of the footballs dropped 2 PSI – that was from the erroneous Mort Report. If you believe Walt Anderson, the LOWEST ball measured at 1.6 below, but the AVERAGE drop was 1 PSI, which is the exact range TWR predicted.
    ===
    Yo, Rolf: If it’s above the “===”, I’m quoting. I didn’t say what you thought I said.

  272. dingusgenius says: Jan 19, 2016 4:34 PM

    “That’s not really true. Technically, Berman vacated the decision because the NFL failed to provide the necessary notice needed to fine\suspend a player for being generally aware of deflating footballs.”

    Nope. Go read Berman’s decision. It’s pretty short. It was thrown out because there is no notice and no precedent set for suspending a player for “failing to cooperate”…there is precedent of Tagliabue throwing out Vilma’s suspension on the same grounds. He also threw the case out due to fundamental fairness practices relative to federal labor law. He shredded the NFL in half on the details of the investigstion, and arbitration on several levels. That was all after he made a mockery of the NFL in court because they had no evidence of anything, which he didn’t need to do. It’s safe to say Berman thinks Brady didn’t do anything judging by his behavior in court and his evisceration of the NFL in his decision.

    I highly recommend reading said decision.

  273. rolf1015 says: Jan 19, 2016 4:45 PM

    smasonsmith, sorry I missed that, my bad:)

    dumbaseinstien, looks like I was referring to your quote that referenced the 2 PSI drop

  274. robertyoungnewhampshire says: Jan 19, 2016 7:28 PM

    re: Posted by Mike Florio on January 18, 2016, 8:10 PM EST
    footballs

    cobbled together enough pieces of circumstantial evidence to justify
    ———————————–
    While Mike Florio’s over-all tone was right, Mike shouldn’t have claimed that there were enough pieces of circumstantial evidence.
    ———————-
    sonhoodoo says:

    But, it turns out Bob isn’t really dead
    ——————————–
    In other words, the circumstantial evidence is that no foul was committed. All that speculation based on text message is rendered moot by the circumstances being that no air was missing from the footballs.

  275. castlelong1 says: Jan 20, 2016 6:06 AM

    I like the word “summary.” It sounds much better than “our cherry picked outliers.”

  276. castlelong1 says: Jan 20, 2016 6:08 AM

    Quoth Judge Berman, “Where’s the evidence?” during the hearings which only Patriot fans seem to have followed.:)

  277. whispersd says: Jan 21, 2016 12:42 AM

    dumbaseinstien says:
    Jan 19, 2016 1:14 PM
    Florio’s article suggests it’s been proven that air pressure dropped by 2 psi due to temperature changes. Psi would drop over time & in lower temperatures, but how long would it take for it to drop 2 PSI in those same circumstances? Am I the only one who finds it telling that after all the money spent by the defense team to debunk these accusations, that no scientific testing has been completed recreating those same weather conditions & how those translate to psi?

    —-

    You’re the only one who still thinks the footballs lost 2 psi.
    You know, if you want some answers to these kinds of questions, you could start with the Wells report. And then read the AEI report, read Drew Fusten’s commentary, watch the video that John Leonard did, etc. There’s no shortage of scientific commentary at this point ripping apart the NFL for declaring that the Exponent report proved tampering had happened.

    Consider this: Ted Wells himself contends the following things:
    a) Walt Coleman was in error regarding which gauge was used before the game
    b) the two gauges used at halftime differ by 0.3-0.4 psi,
    c) The data shows that the Patriots must have deflated 0.3-0.4 psi from the footballs.

    Occam’s razor suggests that a) is incorrect, and therefore c) is incorrect. The fact that the NFL clings to this absurd accusation is bizarre. A football will lose over a pound of psi on a cold day. Why on Earth would somebody decide to prepare the ball by letting out a mere 0.3 psi? It’s an idiotic accusation. The alleged amount of tampering is much, much less than the amount of pressure loss that the balls will see from nature itself.

    Let’s be blunt here: Mike Kensil ran this investigation without having the first idea about what the pressures should be. He thought he had the Patriots dead to rights when he saw that they were over 1 psi low. But he thought that because he’s ignorant. Also, Kensil made his accusation to the Patriots in a volatile manner, screaming and swearing at people, while promising that they were in “deep trouble”.

    Kensil crossed the Rubicon. Once that happened, he couldn’t just say “whoops, my bad!” And since then we’ve all been treated to an exercise in the NFL trying desperately to prove something that simply cannot be proven, for the inconvenient reason that it never happened.

    Haters love hating and cannot admit their mistakes.

  278. alcottclan235 says: Jan 21, 2016 8:27 AM

    The vendetta the NFL has against the Pats is astounding. They will release “Results” that are cherry picked from their findings that make the NFL look right in their original sting. ( if they ever really tested any balls to begin with). Roger wants to turn the public against the Patriots again on the biggest possible stage. I really hope he has to hand that trophy to Brady after the Superbowl.

  279. mathprof84 says: Jan 21, 2016 10:44 AM

    A football will lose over a pound of psi on a cold day. Why on Earth would somebody decide to prepare the ball by letting out a mere 0.3 psi? It’s an idiotic accusation. The alleged amount of tampering is much, much less than the amount of pressure loss that the balls will see from nature itself.
    ———————————
    AND…..the alleged amount of deflation just HAPPENS to be the exact amount by which the 2 gauges differed. How’s that for a coincidence?

  280. TeeHeeLOLatPatsHaters says: Jan 21, 2016 2:29 PM

    All intelligent football fans in existence are cheering for the appeal court to uphold Berman’s decision, and that is exactly what will happen.

    Goodell and the NFL FO must not have the ability to pick and choose who to suspend just because they feel like it- and that is exactly the power they want. It’s quite chilling if you think about it.

    That’s not how things are supposed to work. This decision will take that power away from them and the NFL is better for it.

    Period.
    :)

  281. fireroger says: Jan 21, 2016 5:48 PM

    I’m kinda hoping it does get returned to Berman (it won’t and it won’t even be close) so he can destroy Goodell on his partiality.

  282. graylingskies says: Jan 22, 2016 9:12 PM

    At this point who’s going to believe anything they say?

  283. dandeman19 says: Jan 22, 2016 10:46 PM

    To all haters riddle me this why is the NY times per an MIT professor reporting that the NFL ignored the ideal gas law?

  284. killitandeatit says: Jan 24, 2016 3:38 PM

    The east coast supports these kinds of word games : Hillary says :” I never sent emails marked “classified” or “top secret”. Well,these documents are never marked in that manner. Real tired of the New England liar word games.

  285. gaffya says: Jan 25, 2016 8:54 AM

    when you’re a *patriot,you cheat.It’s what you do…let this rest.Everybody in the entire universe outside of N.E. knows they cheated then and they still cheat today weather or not they got caught this year.Everyone knows they ordered the balls to be deflated and that’s why The NFL will win the appeal.I don’t think anyone expected them to bribe a judge but no one was surprised either…Berman is getting disbarred and Brady is getting the suspension…

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