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St. Louis PSL holders sue Rams

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The Rams have taken the American pastime from St. Louis to Los Angeles. So it’s time for another American pastime.

The filing of lawsuits.

Not that there’s anything wrong with the filing of lawsuits, if they have merit. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t.

In St. Louis, the first lawsuit filed in the aftermath of the relocation of the Rams to Kroenkeworld alleged that the team violated the Missouri’s Merchandising Practices Act in claiming that they lied when saying they had no intention to move. The second lawsuit alleges that the fans who purchased Personal Seat Licenses in St. Louis retain those rights in Los Angeles.

Via the Associated Press, the class-action complaint argues that St. Louis PSL holders have “the right to purchase season tickets for the assigned seats for each and every football season through the year 2025.”

Although the final analysis will hinge on a full examination of the PSL contract — which possibly contains enough small-print legalese to support the argument that the licenses don’t transfer — it makes sense for people who paid a lump sum for the right to buy tickets through 2025 to claim that they should receive compensation of some sort for the final 10 years of the arrangement.

More lawsuits are possible, with the claims limited only by the creativity of the lawyers crafting them. While none of it will bring the Rams back to St. Louis, it gives the fans who are upset by the outcome a way to demonstrate their anger — as long as their claims are supported by the existing laws on the books or a good-faith argument for an expansion of the current legal principles.

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63 Responses to “St. Louis PSL holders sue Rams”
  1. joetoronto says: Jan 22, 2016 10:59 AM

    Kroenke is a crook.

    That is all.

  2. floratiotime says: Jan 22, 2016 10:59 AM

    Robbed by a business. It’s the Amerikan way.

  3. The collective IQ of the haters is lower than the PSI of Brady's game balls says: Jan 22, 2016 11:00 AM

    I LOVE how they aren’t suing for their money back, but rather suing to keep their PSL’s in the new stadium. LFAO

  4. leroysbutler says: Jan 22, 2016 11:02 AM

    The hell with season ticket rights in Los Angeles. Nobody from St Louis is going to games in LA. Season ticket holders should receive the pro-rated value of what they paid for the PSL.

    This is another reason why PSL’s are a scam.

  5. mikebinrookline says: Jan 22, 2016 11:04 AM

    Sorry but anyone dumb enough to pay a PSL deserves to lose their $.

  6. whodey83 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:04 AM

    Shut up Joe

  7. mrheavyhustle says: Jan 22, 2016 11:06 AM

    I don’t like this at all. Take the team from the hardworking city of St.Louis. Like California or even LA for that matter needed another sports franchise. They have plenty already. Just more traffic and such for greedy California and its people. Then they want to claim Raiders or Chargers in LA also SMH Ridiculous

  8. ReligionIsForIdiots says: Jan 22, 2016 11:09 AM

    That photo is fitting.

  9. dohczeppelin says: Jan 22, 2016 11:11 AM

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think the PSL holders have a very fair point. They got screwed (even more so than everyone else who’s forced to buy a PSL) and that fact is indisputable. They should be compensated monetarily (1/10 of the value every season for the next 10 years would be fair) or retain their PSL so they can sell it on the open market to people in LA (the team should be forced to help facilitate that sale in that scenario.)

    PSLs are a cash grab and a scam to begin with but this is taking it to a whole new level.

  10. switchwitch59 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:13 AM

    Don’t know about the first one but absolutely the PSL crowd should get their money back.

  11. mogogo1 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:14 AM

    “The second lawsuit alleges that the fans who purchased Personal Seat Licenses in St. Louis retain those rights in Los Angeles.”

    That would be some serious money for St. Louis fans when they resold to the rich LA crowd. A little backstory: The Rams contract guarantees that a PSL is good FOR ALL FUTURE SEASONS and you can resell your PSL. That is the fans’ basis for the lawsuit. But the contract also stipulates PSLs are for those EXACT SEATS which the Rams will say doesn’t apply to the new stadium in California. It will be interesting to see what the courts say.

  12. km2266 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:14 AM

    It would be justice, if the PSL holders from St. Louis own the PSL for the new stadium in LA through 2025. This relocation will still happen, but is getting more and more expensive for Kroenke every day.

  13. vetdana says: Jan 22, 2016 11:15 AM

    My Lawyer once told me ” You can sue anybody for anything but, whether you collect anything or not, is an entirely different matter “. I hope the St. Louis PSL holders do find merit in this ” legalise” and make the new Kronke Venture., a little more than uncomfortable !

  14. phluffyclouds says: Jan 22, 2016 11:17 AM

    Baseball is Americas pastime drrrp

  15. savethebs says: Jan 22, 2016 11:17 AM

    PSL lawsuit makes some sense.

  16. JCM1217 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:19 AM

    How many people in STL were saying this stuff when the Rams originally moved to STL from LA?

  17. sf546 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:20 AM

    mrheavyhustle says:
    Jan 22, 2016 11:06 AM
    I don’t like this at all. Take the team from the hardworking city of St.Louis. Like California or even LA for that matter needed another sports franchise. They have plenty already. Just more traffic and such for greedy California and its people. Then they want to claim Raiders or Chargers in LA also SMH Ridiculous
    —————————–
    But it was okay when those greedy Midwesterners took the team from all those hardworking Rams fans in SoCal 20 years ago?

  18. jucam1 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:27 AM

    Yeah, there are def no hard working people in L.A.! And yeah! This all those people’s fault! Only the hard working people in St. louis deserve a team! I like dumb people. It’s why politics are what they are in this country. They blame other people, or a city, or luck. The reality is that financially it seems to make more sense to take the former L.A. Rams, back to L.A. I am not sure if that is true, but please remember and NEVER forget, these sports teams DO NOT belong to any city. It doesn’t matter what kind if significance or “civic” duty you think they owe you, they are not a property of the city they live in. If they were, you could get to vote on free agent budgets and how much hot dogs can cost. These teams are a privately owned entity that can and at times will have the opportunity to move the franchise if enough funding can not be sucked out of the local fan base. LA spent almost 20 years with a football team because they didn’t provide the funding the Rams wanted back then for a new stadium. This is not your team, this is a tax exempt organization that is legally allowed to charge you for watching. You just happen to be the customer just like customers everywhere else you will like it and shut it. Blaming other cities is dumb

  19. theashleyguy says: Jan 22, 2016 11:28 AM

    I think someone can make the PSL issue quite interesting by invoking the provisions of RICO–that is the anti-racketeering law. In Salinas vs. The United States, the courts determined that the government must prove:
    1. the existence of the enterprise (Rams and NFL)

    2. the pattern of activity (by allowing both Rams and Chargers there is a pattern)

    3. the effect on interstate commerce (California and Missouri)

    4, the conduct of the defendant in relationship to the enterprise. (Kroenke’s behavior as well as the NFL’s).

    That’s a criminal statute. That’s jail time!

  20. granadafan says: Jan 22, 2016 11:28 AM

    mrheavyhustle says:
    I don’t like this at all. Take the team from the hardworking city of St.Louis. Like California or even LA for that matter needed another sports franchise. They have plenty already. Just more traffic and such for greedy California and its people.

    Don’t blame California, blame the greed of NFL owners like Kroenke or GEORGIA FRONTIERE who moved the team from LA to St Louis. Now you know how it feels to gain and lose a team. Oh, and we’re just as hard working in California as you are in Missouri, and we’re a better state. There’s a reason why so many people want to move and live here and flee Missouri

    That said, I hope the plaintiffs take Kroenke and the NFL to the cleaners in this lawsuit.

  21. purpleguy says: Jan 22, 2016 11:29 AM

    I wish the best of luck to those St. Louis PSL holders — they paid for the right to buy those season tickets till 2025 and the club is breaching the PSL agreement by no longer playing in the stadium for which they bought the license. My fear is that there is some goofy, fine-print exception language in the contract, and if you’ve ever seen one, there’s a lot of it. If Kroenke has any heart (which I doubt), he’ll reimburse those license holders.

  22. stipez says: Jan 22, 2016 11:30 AM

    I had absolutely no intention to comment, until I did.

    I’d want to retain my PSL so I could scalp tickets in LA, that should be some cash.

    I think anyone who gives the NFL anything beyond their eyeballs on Sunday is a sucker. Keep those Bradford jerseys, maybe the Rams will be back when LA turns into Beijing or The Big One happens.

  23. sundog05 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:31 AM

    Perhaps they can get a new franchise. The Ferguson Looters?

  24. iamtheoven says: Jan 22, 2016 11:34 AM

    The Rams averaged only 43k fans per game in their last year in LA.

  25. pioniere says: Jan 22, 2016 11:41 AM

    If something doesn’t go your way, sue. It’s the American way!

  26. iman62 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:44 AM

    This is what a sore loser looks like.

  27. rcali says: Jan 22, 2016 11:46 AM

    Ha ha, Cleveland just took everyone’s PSL’s away. Best scam NFL has right now and yet sucker after sucker line-up to buy them.

  28. dryzzt23 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:46 AM

    I hope the PSL holders sue on an individual basis. Otherwise some lawyers will reap the lions share of the winnings and that should NOT happen.

  29. welcomehomelosangelesrams says: Jan 22, 2016 11:47 AM

    Hopefully there will be a counter suit coming from L.A. against St. Louis for stealing the Rams in ’94.
    Kroenke righted a terrible wrong!

  30. lrical says: Jan 22, 2016 11:48 AM

    I’m not about lawsuits but I agree with the seat holders

  31. clemenza58 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:49 AM

    Totally get the disappointment in St. Louis but the reality is that this lawsuit (and others similar to it) won’t go anywhere.

  32. jimbo75025 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:54 AM

    To people asking why St Louis fans were not up in arms for the poor LA fans 20 years ago, PSLs did not exist back then.

    Second point for me would be why the heck were the Rams selling PSLs in St Louis anyway? My understanding was that those were used to offset stadium costs-or at least the portion paid for by the team owner? The Rams did not pay for the Edward Jones Dome. Anything that St Louis fans paid for those went straight to Kroenkes pocket.

    I seriously hope that fans in Missouri have put together a listing of malls and other developments in the area owned b Kroenke and are avoiding those like the plague. Same thing for WalMart-if you shop around you can save more money by not buying EVERYTHING from that nasty corporation.

  33. Unchained81 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:55 AM

    Freaking hilarious. Guy lives in St. Louis, wins the suit to keep his seats in LA, sells them for double or triple the price to desperate LA residents, never attends one game from now til 2025. Awesome.

  34. awdlmd says: Jan 22, 2016 11:56 AM

    People bought PSLs for the STL Rams? Seriously? Were they overcome with Bradfordmania? Folesmania?

  35. aarownhere says: Jan 22, 2016 11:57 AM

    baseball is americas pasttime football is a great scam lol

  36. seabrawk12 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:59 AM

    Baseball is Americas pastime drrrp

    __________________________

    Baseball is America’s naptime.

    Fixed it for you.

  37. pastabelly says: Jan 22, 2016 12:00 PM

    He will have to reimburse St Louis PSL purchasers for the portion of the unused amount to 2025. In the overall scheme of things, it’s peanuts.

  38. welcomehomelosangelesrams says: Jan 22, 2016 12:03 PM

    Kroenke’s awesome…….Los Angeles Rams! Deal with it.

  39. razzlejag says: Jan 22, 2016 12:06 PM

    Good point, JCM1217. Didn’t STL steal the Rams from LA in the first place?

    Anyway, how much was a PSL in STL? Why not just pro-rate the last 10 years as a refund to the owners? Say it was $5000 and the guy got in 20 years ago. Since there are 10 years to go, he realized half its value and should get $2500 back.

    Say there were 40,000 PSLs sold and all get back the hypothetical $2500-. That would be a total refund of…wait…$100 million.

    Chicken feed.

  40. jeremycrowhurst says: Jan 22, 2016 12:15 PM

    Do the PSL holders have a contract with the Rams themselves, or is it with the stadium, or some other company like a ticket broker?

  41. peytonwantsaflag says: Jan 22, 2016 12:20 PM

    I LOVE how they aren’t suing for their money back, but rather suing to keep their PSL’s in the new stadium. LFAO
    ——————————-
    because they are smart enough to know they can make more money either by selling the PSL’s if they are allowed or scalping the tickets over the next 15 years.

    it’s not rocket surgery.

  42. schmitty2 says: Jan 22, 2016 12:20 PM

    mrheavyhustle says:
    Jan 22, 2016 11:06 AM

    I don’t like this at all. Take the team from the hardworking city of St.Louis. Like California or even LA for that matter needed another sports franchise. They have plenty already. Just more traffic and such for greedy California and its people. Then they want to claim Raiders or Chargers in LA also SMH Ridiculous

    Let me ask you this….if you were a business owner and had the chance to double your business’ value, would you do it?

  43. harrisonhits2 says: Jan 22, 2016 12:21 PM

    “baseball is americas pasttime football”

    Baseball lost me more than 20 years ago. Haven’t watched a single MLB game in that time and never will again.

    Like golf, its a form of visual heroin. If you want to go right to sleep put it on, not good for anything else.

  44. welcomehomelosangelesrams says: Jan 22, 2016 12:21 PM

    jimbo75025 says: Jan 22, 2016 11:54 AM

    “I seriously hope that fans in Missouri have put together a listing of malls and other developments in the area owned b Kroenke and are avoiding those like the plague. Same thing for WalMart-if you shop around you can save more money by not buying EVERYTHING from that nasty corporation.”

    jimbo – it’s so cute of you to come up with that idea. Because boycotts always work so well. Yes everyone in St. Louis will inconvenience themselves to stick to Kroenke. I’m sure he’s trembling.

  45. kanodogg says: Jan 22, 2016 12:26 PM

    The collective IQ of the haters is lower than the PSI of Brady’s game balls says:
    Jan 22, 2016 11:00 AM
    I LOVE how they aren’t suing for their money back, but rather suing to keep their PSL’s in the new stadium. LFAO

    —-

    The PSL’s in the new stadium can be sold for FAR more than what they paid for the PSL in St Louis. Saavy move imo.

  46. intrafinesse says: Jan 22, 2016 12:37 PM

    In a perverse way, I hope the PSL holders lose, and future PSL holders see that the idea of PSLs is risky, and that you can lose your investment much faster than you realize.

    The NFL has been ripping off municipalities for years, and there is an easy solution. Just don’t contribute tax money (other than some transportation improvements). If the team doesn’t choose your municipality, it’s a shame, but life goes on.

    If a city wants to subsidize a sports team, than a limited number of fans attend, then start subsidizing movie theaters and restaurants and bars and other things people in the city like to do.

    Why should government arbitrarily decide which private business to subsidize?

  47. ricko1112 says: Jan 22, 2016 12:37 PM

    California doesn’t need anymore crappy teams!

    Move to NY! They won’t have any teams once the Bills move to Toronto.

  48. brucetrimble says: Jan 22, 2016 12:41 PM

    @ whodey83
    Joetoronto has a point that extends to all owners who could at any moment decide the current terms of their agreements with municipalities are not profitable enough. Kronke held St Louis hostage while fielding a mediocre team led by a weak HC. It could happen to you.

  49. lesterclan says: Jan 22, 2016 12:50 PM

    You know you can always tell when Gen X or Millennials post on here…the act like the NFL was invented 20 years ago.

    To those who point out that St. Louis “stole” the Rams from LA, you do realize that Arizona “stole” the Cardinals from St. Louis, right?

    Also, slow your gloating, LAers. You have lost at least 3 NFL teams over the years. There is a reason for that. Although, now that I think about it, that is probably some kind of record, so…go ahead a gloat!

  50. barrymichaels61 says: Jan 22, 2016 12:52 PM

    Fans in St Louis are entitled to a refund for the unused seasons, the Rams would be wise to refund all asap to avoid further legal cost, one way or another they’ll pay and the legal cost would most likely exceed the PSL refunds.

  51. corvusrex96 says: Jan 22, 2016 12:53 PM

    They suing for the right to PSLs at the Rams new stadium rather than a refund b/c there is nothing in the contract about a refund , they are asking that the Rams honor the contract (which will cost the team a lot of money since they want to sell new PSLs ) in the hopes that the Rams will settle (as they probably should)

  52. welcomehomelosangelesrams says: Jan 22, 2016 12:56 PM

    KROENKE! KROENKE! KROENKE!

  53. welcomehomelosangelesrams says: Jan 22, 2016 1:16 PM

    lesterclan says: Jan 22, 2016 12:50 PM

    Also, slow your gloating, LAers. You have lost at least 3 NFL teams over the years. There is a reason for that. Although, now that I think about it, that is probably some kind of record, so…go ahead a gloat!

    OK, I will…….LOS ANGELES RAMS! As it should be.

  54. kane337 says: Jan 22, 2016 1:31 PM

    The PSL’s for the new Los Angeles stadium just went up.

  55. braceyourselffor12 says: Jan 22, 2016 1:37 PM

    seabrawk12 says:
    Jan 22, 2016 11:59 AM

    Baseball is Americas pastime drrrp

    __________________________

    Baseball is America’s naptime.

    Fixed it for you.

    —————————————————————-

    I’d be salty too if my team was the Mariners. Guaranteed though if they we’re to make the playoffs Seattle bandwagoners would be coming out of the woodwork proclaiming themselves life long fans.

  56. duffelbagsports says: Jan 22, 2016 1:59 PM

    Keep the PSLs, buy the tickets in LA and let the team play before empty seats with no concession or sports paraphernalia money

  57. justanotherfan101 says: Jan 22, 2016 2:03 PM

    Yes, give them a refund on their unused portion of the PSL, that’s fair, then move on. Even though it’s been depicted differently, LA Rams fans were just as pissed off when the team left over 20 years ago as the St Louis fans are now. The main difference is there wasn’t such a big forum for them to vent as there is now.

  58. mackcarrington says: Jan 22, 2016 2:32 PM

    Kroenke didn’t build the stadium in St.Louis. So did that PSL money go into Kroenke’s pocket or St. Louis’ coffers? They should have made a stink about paying PSL’s in the first place. But they were so “passionate” about football they didn’t care. Midwestern rubes.

  59. brucetrimble says: Jan 22, 2016 4:26 PM

    Note to fans of the LA Rams: the city may have changed but the HC did not. As long as Fisher is coaching, the Rams will be mediocre at best. And the owner seems to be ok with that.

  60. welcomehomelosangelesrams says: Jan 22, 2016 4:30 PM

    justanotherfan101 says: Jan 22, 2016 2:03 PM

    “Yes, give them a refund on their unused portion of the PSL, that’s fair, then move on. Even though it’s been depicted differently, LA Rams fans were just as pissed off when the team left over 20 years ago as the St Louis fans are now. The main difference is there wasn’t such a big forum for them to vent as there is now.”

    Post of the day!

  61. fanofpft says: Jan 22, 2016 5:20 PM

    This reminds me of how the pats conduct themselves. It’s not in the rules so it must be OK.

  62. bobthis says: Jan 26, 2016 3:37 PM

    The Rams started in Los Angeles and it’s only fitting that they come home. They did NOT move to L.A. from Cleveland. The Cleveland Rams went out of business after WWII and the name was purchased to start a team in L.A. If it was not for Georgia wanting to take them to her home town of St Louis and become the queen of the midwest they would never have left Los Angeles. She allowed Faragamo, Reynolds, Dickerson and several others walk out of camp. She ran the team into the ground in an attempt to make her case stronger. I do feel bad for the St. Louis fans but the Rams have always been identified with L.A. I’m pretty sure they’ll get another team. Lets hope it won’t take 21 years.

  63. bobthis says: Jan 26, 2016 3:41 PM

    The majority of the PSL money went into Georgia’s pocket. That all happened long before Kronke got there.

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