Should NFL give Pats their draft picks back?

AP

The NFL has taken from the Patriots a first-round pick and a fourth-round pick (along with $1 million) for the team’s role in #DeflateGate. Peter King of TheMMQB.com argues that the league should restore the forfeited draft picks.

The NFL should do that, but it won’t. It won’t do it because there’s no mechanism that the Patriots can use to get the picks back. The Patriots chose last year not to fight the sanctions, closing the door on any opportunity to change the outcome. So if the NFL would alter its course now, that would be a gratuity for one franchise, which would surely raise the ire of one or more of the 31 others.

The league had a chance to make a reversal something other than a favor to the Patriots, but the NFL failed to take halftime or postgame PSI measurements for all 2015 games. A 333-game database of evidence could have shown that the Patriots were clearly guilty or (more likely) that the results were inconclusive. The league chose not to do that, for the same reason folks choose not to get on the scale the day after Thanksgiving.

Come Thanksgiving of 2016, the Patriots will be trying to win yet another division title without the benefit of its lost picks. Meanwhile, the NFL likely will still be trying to enforce through the court system the suspension of Tom Brady — and the NFL undoubtedly will still not have corrected the false information leaked to the media in January 2015 about the PSI readings.

219 responses to “Should NFL give Pats their draft picks back?

  1. Should they give them the picks and money back for spygate too?

    Nope. Not for anything. This is the most disgusting tainted franchise in all of sports. Good riddance and can’t wait for Brady’s suspension to be upheld soon.

  2. There is no way the league does the right thing. There are 31 teams that want to see the Patriots executed regardless of the fact there was no crime. Kraft knew it and chose not to rock the boat with his business partners

  3. In all the texts exchanged between equipment guys, there was only 1 of them talking specifically about PSI. That was from Jastremski saying football were supposed to be 13 PSI, but the refs way overinflated in a game against the Jets.
    No other texts mentioned PSI, never mind that Brady wanted footballs lower than regulation.

  4. I’d say yes but how do you make it up to the Saints for taking away their coach and draft picks for something that was totally fabricated to try and head off a multi billion dollar lawsuit.

  5. We don’t need the picks back. The NFL has to do this to make the rest of the league competitive with us. They don’t want the Pats in the Super Bowl for the next 5 years.

  6. If the league can’t do the right thing and return the picks, the NFL has officially become a poor man’s version of the WWE, a scripted reality show targeted for a male audience.

    Thanks to Goodell & his band of failed former NY Jet employees, the competitive NFL has gone the way of the typewrite, it’s a relic of a bygone era. No one should take the NFL more seriously than they take the Kardashians.

  7. Are you kidding me? There is so much circumstantial evidence those balls were deflated no reasonable person would conclude differently.

    Just stop all the nonsense that the science is flawed and it was a witch hunt. Quit deflecting the truth Patriot homers.

    Your boy is guilty. CHEATER.

    If the Pats were innocent than Kraft would have negotiated a lesser penalty for obstruction. No one guilty accepts the full punishment.

    So just stop the nonsense right now. GUILTY and TAINTED.

    Kraft cheated on his dying wife

    Belicheat cheated on spy gate

    Brady cheated in deflate gate.

    Case closed except Brady needs to be suspended.

  8. They should but they won’t.

    The rest of the league can thank the Colts that one team can make up complete bullcrap about another team, have no solid evidence to back it up and still have the NFL fine the accused team $1m and take their first rounder away.

    Losing a first round pick for something you did and admitted doing is one thing. But losing it when you did nothing wrong and repeatedly said so is quite another matter altogether.

    Thats what really vexes us Pats fans the most. A first round pick gone purely on fiction not facts.

  9. King is such a homer for the Patriots. I can hear Kraft telling King he real should bring this point up in his MMQB column, it would start a conversation. King is on the path to being irrelevant because his true colors are documented and being exposed.

  10. As a Pats fan, I obviously want the league to give us our draft picks back; but, it wont happen. So instead, I’d like to thank the fans of other teams who can see what happened here and who are standing up for what’s right. It could happen to your team too, people. Ask the Saints fans.

  11. It’s funny reading some of the comments. Children nowadays are raised with the ‘blame someone for my inadequacies’ mentality. Maybe it’s the everybody gets a trophy mentality, until of course, you get out into the real world of professional sports.

  12. I am sure the majority of these comments will be pretty biased as always towards the uneducated Pats hater crowd but it would be insane if you knew all the facts and don’t think they should get their picks back. The NFL has literally been the only side caught lying in this whole thing…

  13. The 16 PSI game against the Jets was in Foxboro. Goodell was shocked to hear that at Brady’s appeal. He assumed the game was at the Jets because McNally does not travel to away games.

    Goodell said Brady conducted a scheme to deflate footballs. But how could he when the recently played Jets game was at Foxboro? There was no scheme.

    Again, Goodell was SHOCKED to hear the game was played in New England. We should be talking about this more.

  14. Kraft chose to accept this to appease the other owners. One thing all Billionaire owners agree on is none of them should do anything that might cost the rest of them one red cent…
    Same reason Benson accepted the bogus punishment for Bountygate. The bottom line is the only thing that counts.

  15. mikermiker says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:46 AM “Should they give them the picks and money back for spygate too?”
    ————————————-
    Pats were guilty of spygate and admitted it. Took their punishment and said nothing else about it.

    Deflategate is completely different, league is punishing based off an assumption. They have no proof at all something happened the day of that game.

  16. with the NFL, there’s a difference between getting things right and getting things wrong.

    And that difference is Roger Goodell, Jeffrey Pash, Mike Kensil, Troy Vincent, Dan Blandino and Dave Gardi.

  17. Goodell should make a public apology to Mr. Kraft and the Patriots. Then give back both draft picks and the $1 million dollars it stole from them. You can’t keep the best franchise in sports down.

  18. This New England Patriots “dynasty” team will

    FOREVER

    be remembered as cheaters. Nothing the pats brats

    EVER

    say or do will alter that.

  19. People with a brain:
    “Yes!”

    People without a brain:
    “No!”

    People talk about the “deflator” texts, explain the text message from McNally (a.k.a. “the deflator”)to Jastremsky saying “how about you deflate and lose that jacket”. It was married up to the Green Bay game, in Green Bay, when McNally saw Jastremsky on tv wearing a jacket. In that context, “deflate” would seem to mean “shed”. As in, shed that weight… Just saying.

    Everyone wants to pick and choose which texts are the smoking gun and which ones are irrelevant. The “deflator” certainly gives the appearance as something nefarious, but its not something that proves guilty. That is no more “proof” than a bank being robbed by a guy wearing a red shirt, and you have a text message in your phone from 7 months earlier where you state you were wearing a red shirt. That hardly means you robbed that bank. But in the eyes of the haters, that is beyond a shadow of a doubt that you robbed the bank, if you weren’t a bank robber, you wouldn’t have ever worn a red shirt

  20. To all you trolls and idiots who do not know how the NFL works let me educate you. The NFL (teams) have no recourse but to sue in court, since each team is 1/32 of the partnership then you be suing yourself to recover a 1.0mm fine and draft picks. That would amount to poor business decision cost/benefit ratio analysis says no payback. Only the raiders sued and the payback was multi year and huge annually by moving to Oakland. Then nfl will begin to implode as Cuban predicted in the next 3-5 years if nothing changes (goodell?). Greed will bring an end to the money train. Don’t believe use the pro bowl game as your evidence no one watches and it is going to be canceled. When the TV revs dry up which they will as viwership falls so the NFL will fall proportionately.

  21. Even if any of the circumstantial evidence is true, the penalty was asinine. I hope Brady wins next week just because Roger is such a DBag. Everytime he says he is fighting for the integrity of the game I throw up a little in my mouth.

  22. As a pats fan I absolutely love this. Every independent look at the wells “report” has discredited it, including everyone with any kind of scientific background.

    And the morons that hate the pats become more unhinged every time independent source makes it clear the wells report was just a bag job and that continues to happen again and again.

    The nfl can keep the picks. The pats would have rolled to another title if they had just a few less injuries than they did and that isn’t going to change next year.

    Its very very good to be a pats fan and that isn’t going to change for quite a while either. Let the meltdowns continue!

  23. factman66 says: Feb 22, 2016 10:44 AM

    Is this a joke?

    The Pats can have their draft picks back when Robert Kraft gives back the spygate trophies.

    Why would the Patriots return SB trophies from 2001, 2003 & 2004? You do realize that it was legal to record signals from the sideline up until 2006 (and it still is, but only in certain locations)? You’re not that dumb are you? Let me guess, you think they cheated with the Tuck Rule, right?

  24. There is plenty of evidence saying they were doing something.

    Many confuse Brady’s over turned suspension as the league not having anything on him. His suspension was over turned because he wasn’t told in advance what the penalty would be for this.

    They still had a guy called the “deflater” , texts about deflating the ball, the guy taking the balls to the bathroom and so many other things.

  25. RC gave up the picks and the cash to show his loyalty to the league feeling as though they would prove their case on deflate gate.
    The have not and in good faith all penalties should be replaced of course with the apologies RC expects.

  26. I’ve never seen so much hate for a team Before In my life,it’s not even a big deal what they’ve been accused of and its only blow out of proportion because it’s them any other team doing this its forgotten about in a week

  27. Keep the picks, Roger. We don’t need them. The Patriots will continue to beat your precious parity teams even when you take away their helmets and make Brady throw into a wind machine. You aren’t worth another second of our time, because you are dumb and corrupt and now the entire world knows it.

  28. factman66 says: Feb 22, 2016 10:44 AM

    Is this a joke?

    The Pats can have their draft picks back when Robert Kraft gives back the spygate trophies.
    …….

    Uh, it might be a while considering Kraft does not have a “spygate trophy” in his possession. No such award exists that I am aware of. And Pats never won a title anyway after taping from sidelines was made illegal.

    But humoring your flawed logic, the 49ers should give back their stickum’ and steroid trophies you think they have, and the broncos should give back their salary cap, HGH, silicon spray and steroid trophies, the seahawks their PED trophy and the ravens their deer antler spray trophy and many many other examples.

  29. The 333-game database of the 2015 games doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that an investigation determined that the Patriots cheated in the Championship game the year before. The Patriots have been caught cheating in the past to, so the NFL was wise to spend more time watching out for how the Patriots were going to try to cheat in a the next time. They got caught videotaping and with deflated footballs. Chances are, if the NFL was spending too much time monitoring the Patriots for more videotaping scandals, they never would have caught them cheating with the PSI. Maybe the Patriots are bugging locker rooms or listening in on other private conversations that they shouldn’t be. Robbers don’t usually go back to the scene of previous crimes, but they’ve been known to be repeat offenders, just as the Patriots have proven to be.

  30. Goodell and the owners are the ones cheating and they’ve been caught stone cold with Deflategate.

    To think NE has lost 3 draft picks and almost 2 milllion dollars in a decade because Belichick mocked Mangini in broad daylight and Goodell entertained the Deflategate witch hunt for another chance to maintain any parity he thinks he has left in such an over-staturated market?

    If Kraft doesn’t want to sue under RICO, Brady should sue and he’s win easily.

    I wouldn’t be shocked if the judge kicks it back to Berman and Berman starts entertaining the idea that Goodell is in breach of the NFL’s Constitution and ByLaws:

    “The commissioner is someone with unquestioned integrity.”

    That’s NOT Roger Goodell. He’s corrupt and has committed fraud, with defamation against Brady.

    Brady must sue to bury him, others involved and those at ESPN once and for all.

  31. I am generally not a conspiracist, but given the fact King is a lackey for all things National Football League I could see someone telling King to send up a trial balloon and see how fans respond.

  32. warrensip says: Feb 22, 2016 11:15 AM

    There is plenty of evidence saying they were doing something.

    Many confuse Brady’s over turned suspension as the league not having anything on him. His suspension was over turned because he wasn’t told in advance what the penalty would be for this.

    They still had a guy called the “deflater” , texts about deflating the ball, the guy taking the balls to the bathroom and so many other things.

    ……………..

    But “deflating” the footballs is perfectly legal before you give them over to the referees which lots of teams do. And the science does not back the NFL. The Wells report and as backed up by MIT even states that under those field conditions that day, the Pats balls should have come in at approximately 11.2 to 11.5 PSI. If you average both gauges’ measurements that day, the Pats footballs come in at 11.3, perfectly acceptable and as predicted.

  33. Wells Report says:

    1. Patriot footballs should have been in the range of 11.32 – 11.52 psi at halftime of the AFCCG.

    2. On the gauge that Walt Anderson recalls using, the average psi was 11.49, which is on the HIGH END of THEIR OWN RANGE!

    This “investigation” and resulting report have been a joke from day one, and anyone who is too blind to see the truth is just a hater taking the opportunity to hate on the team that continues to win.

    Roger will not “the right thing” as just does what the owners want to keep his $30M+ job, regardless of what is”right”.

  34. Many confuse Brady’s over turned suspension as the league not having anything on him. His suspension was over turned because he wasn’t told in advance what the penalty would be for this.
    ==========
    Judge Berman made it abundantly clear in his ruling that the league had no evidence and he believed Brady, the only person who testified under oath about it. Moreover he made a point of publically the appeal transcripts, which exposed bold faced lies made by Goodell.
    So while the stated grounds for the overturning hinged, as it had to, on legal points and collective bargaining law, had there been any kind of real evidence, the process would not have had to have been so questionable in the first place,

  35. Anyone who doesn’t think the Pats deserve their picks back is motivated solely by a desire to see the Patriots lose, rather than any sense of fairness.

    The evidence – for those paying attention – is beyond weak, it in fact points to the Patriots being innocent.

    I don’t want to hear your “what about [blank]” questions, they have literally all been answered and if you don’t know the answers by now, me telling them to you won’t change that. Just google it.

  36. *When the Raiders get compensated for years of abuse from the league

    *When the Saints are compensated for losing Payton for a season

    *When the cowboys are given their cap space back

    *When the Redskins are given their cap space back

    By the way, how many of those actions did Bobby Kraft personally endorse?

  37. Aww but if they give the picks back what will all the whiney losers have? Nothing. No hope and a terrible football team that can’t beat the patriots. If you can’t beat them in the field might as well kick and scream and cry to mommy.

    People who hate the patriots are the same kind of people who sue when their unathletic children get cut from teams

  38. I’m resigned to the fact that RG whose credibility is at an all-time low, will not turn around and concede anything to NE, regardless of whether it’s the right thing to do.

    The Kraft’s IMO folded their hand way to early.

    Oh well, patiently awaiting the court decision in early March.

  39. Well, at least this article gives Pats fans something else to do besides commenting that every washed up and recently released NFL superstar should sign with their team.

  40. If you ever get grab and charge with a murder that you had no part in it, then say yes I’m guilty and pay the price, or if you are really innocent you never confess that you did it…Mr. Kraft, you said you were guilty when you did not fight the charges. Bill

  41. sueb45 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:55 AM

    No, its cant happen to any team. If any of the other 31 teams were randomly checked i can promise you that 11 of their balls would be well under the legal limit. I can promise you (with the exception of manning) that none of their QB’s openly lobbied to get rid of low PSI rule (motive). I can promise you that it just so happens the ball boys for other teams take the balls to the one place in the stadium without cameras after inspection. I can promise you the other ball boys on other teams dont txt eachother threattening to go to ESPN about their qb, or refer to themselves as the Deflator. I can promise you other QB’s wouldnt destroy their phone. These are amazing ‘coincidences’ that just wouldnt happen to any other team- b/c quite simply they arent cheating.

  42. rogerWWEgoodell says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:30 AM

    False, Brady claims he ‘always’ destroys phone, but the one prior to the one in question was not destroyed. Brady claimed he had no idea what the PSI rule was and that he had never even heard the term “psi” until 2014. He was playing dumb. He lobbied in 2007 to get rid of the low PSI rule b/c he said he prefers his balls under 12.5. Now why on earth would you lie about that? Every college and pro qb knows the rule and they know the EXACT psi they prefer their balls to be at. But the 15 yr vet just ‘wings it’ and has no idea what PSI is or how he likes his balls prepared?!?!?! rrrriiiigggghhhhhttttttt.

  43. I’m not a Patriots fan – I support the Vikings.

    Yet I believe that the Patriots should at the very least get their 1st round pick back for 2016.

    The League hasn’t been able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Patriots knowingly broke any rules, and to me the whole ‘investigation’ was a knee jerk witch hunt.

    The League should have had much better processes in place for checking ball air pressure before/during/after games, and I’m sure they do now.

    Give the Patriots their draft choices back – at most move their selections to the very end of the related round – and just levy the fine. Hell, make them pay the fine and remove the same amount from their salary cap figure for this year if it makes Roger Goodell’s ego feel better.

  44. rogerWWEgoodell says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:30 AM

    Ever notice how the only side in this that got caught lying over and over is the NFL?

    —————————————————–

    Ever notice how Brady was the one who destroyed
    evidence and had the gall to complain that he and Don Yee complained that that they did not know Brady would be punished?

    Are you kidding me? Goodell is not going to drop this case. Brady is going to move his 4 game suspension to the first 4 games of 2016.

  45. “Are you kidding me? There is so much circumstantial evidence those balls were deflated no reasonable person would conclude differently.”

    But there IS direct physical evidence that the balls were NOT artificially deflated. So what do you do now? Trust circumstantial evidence that suggests something may have happened, or trust the actual ball readings which prove that nothing happened? What-to-do? I guess we know which way you (and the NFL) chose…

  46. Why exactly should they not give them back the picks? Besides the fact that you don’t like them (that isn’t a valid reason). Brady wasnt guilty of anything, even if he was it has nothing to do with NE they deserve those picks back and the fine should be donated. Owners don’t have a union, but I am having a hard time seeing why they were even disciplined in the first place.

  47. A real commissioner would be MAN enough to own his mistake and give back the picks because it’s the right thing to do. We all know who we have in Goodell, so they won’t give the picks back.

    A REAL man owns his faults and shortcomings and can admit to mistakes. Wussies point fingers, whine and blame others. 🙂

    That’s why Patriot Hater keeps making excuses instead of demanding better of their own team so they can compete with the 4 time World Champion and undisputed NFLs Greatest Dynasty Patriots. And that’s why we superior fans of the 4 time World Champions enjoy laughing at them.

    🙂

  48. For those bringing up Spygate – you are showing your true colors and ignorance about that issue.

    Spygate is not about spying – it is about videotaping coaching signals from an “unauthorized location” in a stadium. If they had filmed from the coaches booth instead of the sidelines, then there would be no such thing as Spygate.

    In reality, if you have a catchy -gate phrase, it sticks and people forget what that particular “gate” was really about.

  49. clelek05 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:27 AM
    100% should get picks back. Keep the million dollar fine for not cooperating

    ——————-

    They were cooperating just fine until they realized that they were being railroaded.

  50. They were clearly were in violation of kinda keeping the ball at the lower limits of the regulations, in light of faulty measuring equipment, faulty reporting by Mort, and unclear practices by how the balls are handled.

    Good thing the league kept records all year proving the ideal gas law but won’t publish the findings. Integrity!

  51. No. The league should not.

    Yes, the league screwed up on this, but they did the same with the Saints, Washington and Dallas. None of them have gottten anything back.

    Kraft should have fought it, but once he capitulated, there is no reason for the league to turn over a new leaf and atone for errors.

  52. thewigglr says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:01 AM

    Goodell should make a public apology to Mr. Kraft and the Patriots. Then give back both draft picks and the $1 million dollars it stole from them. You can’t keep the best franchise in sports down.


    A REAL commissioner who deserves his $35M a year and a REAL man would do that.

    A REAL commissioner would never let such a thing get far. If Tags and Rozelle were commissioner this kind of thing would never see the light of day.

    Real commissioners show leadership not arf and clap for certain owners who can’t be bothered demanding better of their teams to compete with a team that has won more Super Bowls than any team in the last 25 years and more games this century than any other NFL team.

    Not this guy.

    Fire Goodell.

    #SayMyBoardName
    #WhatIsMyName

  53. Yes, the league screwed up on this, but they did the same with the Saints, Washington and Dallas. None of them have gottten anything back.

    —-
    Just like two wrongs don’t make a right…

    3 wrongs and 1 right >>> 4 wrongs.

  54. If Brady is found ultimately not guilty (as he should be given that the NFL itself admitted it had no evidence that he did anything wrong) the honest thing to do would be to return the draft picks and the money. Anything short of that amounts to grand larceny and should result in the perpetrators being jailed.
    This was a witch hunt from the outset, No evidence, lying , leaking of false information, deliberate attempts to manufacture false evidence, slander. This should have landed Goodell on the street if not in jail.

  55. Its truly funny to read some of the Pats hater comments on here. By now, everyone with the IQ equivalent of Antonio Cromartie knows this entire scandal was trumped-up and clearly a witch-hunt from Day 1. The fact that two of the most influential football writers in America (King and Florio) believe the Pats should get their picks back is a testament to how ridiculous this entire fiasco is. Funny thing is, not having a first round pick won’t hurt the Pats. They will be back in the hunt next year and the year after. Even by lying and cheating, RG and the other owners can’t stop the Patriots. Its truly pathetic.

  56. No, they aren’t getting their picks back…

    Skins and Cowboys didn’t get cap space back for violating “the spirit of the salary cap” in an uncapped year or how about the Saints penalties! as far as I’m concerned Goodell can jump off a bridge.

  57. charliecharger says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:22 AM

    The 333-game database of the 2015 games doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that an investigation determined that the Patriots cheated in the Championship game the year before. The Patriots have been caught cheating in the past to, so the NFL was wise to spend more time watching out for how the Patriots were going to try to cheat in a the next time. They got caught videotaping and with deflated footballs. Chances are, if the NFL was spending too much time monitoring the Patriots for more videotaping scandals, they never would have caught them cheating with the PSI. Maybe the Patriots are bugging locker rooms or listening in on other private conversations that they shouldn’t be. Robbers don’t usually go back to the scene of previous crimes, but they’ve been known to be repeat offenders, just as the Patriots have proven to be.
    _________________________________

    How do you explain the Colts balls being under inflated as well. They just were not as under inflated because the were in the room longer.

    It’s funny I was playing basketball with my son the other day and the ball was soft so we filled it up the ball got left outside in the cold for a couple days and guess what is was soft again.

  58. The hater comments are like reading the book reports of an 8th grade summer school Remedial Reading class:
    Vague, cherry-picked conclusions because they didn’t/can’t read the book and don’t understand the subject matter enough to make educated statements so they just rely on what some other kid told them to support their argument.
    “and so many other things” lmao!

  59. Every college and pro qb knows the rule and they know the EXACT psi they prefer their balls to be at. But the 15 yr vet just ‘wings it’ and has no idea what PSI is or how he likes his balls prepared?!?!?! rrrriiiigggghhhhhttttttt.

    ================

    And yet, if you accept the premise that deflation regularly occurred, it would mean that Brady had different feeling footballs at home than on the road. Let that sink in. ….
    So you are are on one hand saying that he has to have them EXACTLY one way, but if this whole story were true, he would have deflated balls at home but not on the road. That’s just dumb.

  60. Goodell blatantly lies about Brady’s testimony. And would have gotten away with it if Judge Berman didn’t deny the NFL’s request to seal records.

    Goodell let’s an NFL employee – or himself – lie to Mortensen about 11 of 12 balls being underinflated by 2 pounds…and never retract it just to whip the public and media who don’t know any better into a frenzy.

    This is Goodell’s “Integrity” folks. Laughable that the morons otherwise more commonly known as Patriot Hater continue to wave their pom poms for this clown. Says a lot about them. That’s why I love getting literally right in their grill and laugh at them! 🙂

    #SoMuchForIntegrity
    #DontTalkToMeAboutIntegrity
    #FireGoodell

  61. I really wonder (worry?) about the anti-patriots crowd that posts on every Pats related article without fail. Is life so bad that you’re truly fulfilled by posting, idiotic garbage (98% of the time) about a football team? There are a few teams I despise as well, usually Pats rivals to some degree, but I read up on them because I’m interested in knowing what they’re up to due to said rivalry. And I enjoy talking football with their fans. Some of you, and you know who you are, really need to re-evaluate your lives.

    In any case, anybody with half a brain and a shred of objectivity that’s actually taken the time to understand what went into the Wells report, the background/profile of the key players involved from the NFL front office, as well as the culture of NFL ownership can come to no other conclusion than what a sham and shame deflategate remains for the NFL and its fans.

  62. If you vote for me, I will commission a federal investigation into the witch hunt of my good friend Tom Brady. No presidential pardon for Fraudger Baddell on my watch!

  63. luckyforus
    Feb 22, 2016, 10:54 AM EST
    Are you kidding me? There is so much circumstantial evidence those balls were deflated no reasonable person would conclude differently.

    Just stop all the nonsense that the science is flawed and it was a witch hunt. Quit deflecting the truth Patriot homers.

    Your boy is guilty. CHEATER

    That is a perfect answer from all the idiot haters. The most important piece of evidence is the science. So instead of looking at that you choose to just simply ignore it. You said it yourself, all the other evidence is circumstantial. So you choose to believe circumstantial evidence as opposed to actual evidence. Do you realize how stupid that sounds. To me it’s really simple, if Brady and the Pats had cheated the science would have proved that. Instead it did the exact opposite and showed that there was no tampering. We can go back and forth debating circumstantial evidence all day long, because that’s exactly what circumstantial evidence is, debatable, but when it comes to the science there is no argument at all. And all you haters know it so instead I talking about the science you just keep rambling on about everything except the most important thing. If the Pats cheated why didn’t it show when they took the measurements. Its the most basic and most important question that you don’t want to answer.

  64. NFL: leaked false information to sway public opinion, hired shady outside firm known as a hired gun, was caught red-handed lying about what Brady testified to during his appeal, quotes from owners saying this was a make-up call, included in report that TB fully cooperated then decided to punish him for non-cooperation, changed narrative on their own referee’ recollection since it would have exonerated Pats, paid $10M+ and best they could come up with is “more probable than not that he was at least generally aware”, etc etc etc

    This is the group the haters likes to align themselves with. Its pretty pathetic, wouldn’t you say?

  65. Just because the ‘legal’ case was screwed up, doesn’t mean something didn’t happen. I still look at the texts between Pats EMPLOYEES and clearly see something was going on with the footballs. That’s why Tommy’s phone wa ssuch a big deal. League/Goodell haters conveniently dismiss the obviousness of that but whatever. Unless the picks are returned, there is NO exoneration

  66. I’m a Patriots fan who fervently believes that Goodell and his staff and hired consultants consciously tampered with the report to achieve their desired goal. And therefore I don’t believe the Patriots should have ever be fined in the first place.
    However, since a significant component of the case is still under appeal in court, I believe they should maintain the forfeited draft picks and fine until the courts decision is rendered.
    I am certain the court will rule in favor of the NFL PA and Brady. I am sure of it. And with that ruling, the NFL will have lost significant autonomy it previously enjoyed. And Brady will be additionally exonerated. At that point, I believe the owners should do what should have been done all along and that is to fire Goodell and all the other NFL employees involved with Deflate gate and to apologize to the Patriots.
    Would it be nice to have the draft picks back? Sure. Are they essential to the continued Patriots dynasty? Of course not.

  67. footballfanatic says: Feb 22, 2016 11:38 AM

    sueb45 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:55 AM

    No, its cant happen to any team. If any of the other 31 teams were randomly checked i can promise you that 11 of their balls would be well under the legal limit. I can promise you (with the exception of manning) that none of their QB’s openly lobbied to get rid of low PSI rule (motive). I can promise you that it just so happens the ball boys for other teams take the balls to the one place in the stadium without cameras after inspection. I can promise you the other ball boys on other teams dont txt eachother threattening to go to ESPN about their qb, or refer to themselves as the Deflator. I can promise you other QB’s wouldnt destroy their phone. These are amazing ‘coincidences’ that just wouldnt happen to any other team- b/c quite simply they arent cheating.

    …………………………………………

    “I can promise you (with the exception of manning) that none of their QB’s openly lobbied to get rid of low PSI rule (motive). ” That is just not true, I think you are referring to the rule change that Brady and Manning spearheaded and gained a consensus among QBs, that QBs can prepare their own footballs because the ones right out of the box are slick and tougher to throw well. Nothing about getting rid of the PSI rule is in there.
    And if the footballs were deflated, why did Wells and MIT conclude that under those conditions the Pats footballs should have been within 11.2 and 11.5 and using the average of both gauges, the Pats balls came in at 11.3, which is perfectly as predicted? Why is there no text from Brady saying “deflate the balls after the refs approve them”? Why did the NFL consistently and brazenly lie numerous times if their case was so solid?

  68. Do haters that use the destroyed phone argument actually believe what they are saying or, similar to the NFL, are clinging to their sinking ship? The argument is moot and laughable, given the following:

    – NFL already had the phones of JM, JJ, and other Pats employees’ requested (including Belichik). Assuming you get out of your mom’s basement once in a while, texts are two-way. If Brady sent/received, it would be on two phones.

    – During the appeal, Brady and his lawyer provided a third-party prepared summary of all texts/calls/etc. from Brady’s phone for a 4-month period. The NFL decided not to follow-up since it would take too much time to sift through. This was the conclusion, even though they had already spent $10M+ and 6+ months on the investigation at that point.

    – The texts the NFL already had from JJ and JM’s phones linked up exactly with the number of texts sent from TB’s phone…….wait for it……..proving they already had all the texts that were even sent/received by TB.

    Keep sticking with the destroyed phone argument though….it continues to give me a laugh

  69. First 3 posters on the story, same Ole’ crybabies, that can’t accept the greatness of the New England Patriots.

    Guys, it’s called a “LIFE”; try and FIND ONE!

    It is so sad to see ya’ll be the very first responders to a story that contends what 99.99999999999999999999999999999999%
    of the country agrees with….except you buffoons

    It’s like you all have a Patriots Story Alarm/Alert from your browser coded into the PFT website
    Obsess much?

    THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
    THE GREATEST MODERN NFL DYNASTY FRANCHISE

  70. Of course they should but it will never happen. The other owners should be ashamed of themselves. They have stooped to trying to have the Patriots play with a handicap but are not men (and women) enough to admit it.

  71. warrensip says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:15 AM
    There is plenty of evidence saying they were doing something.

    Many confuse Brady’s over turned suspension as the league not having anything on him. His suspension was over turned because he wasn’t told in advance what the penalty would be for this.

    They still had a guy called the “deflater” , texts about deflating the ball, the guy taking the balls to the bathroom and so many other things.
    ====================
    If the facts ever went before a neutral arbiter (noting it still hasn’t) the NFL would have been laughed out of court faster than what’s about to happen to them next week.

  72. you can all complain about how the pats shouldnt get thier picks back, im cool with that as long as you are cool ignoring all the facts and science.

    i look forward to when roger goes after your team, with no basis and i support him

    its people like you who are keeping this moron in charge of our beloved sport. dont complain about him ever when you support him in the biggest farce of the NFL’s history

  73. I am certain the court will rule in favor of the NFL PA and Brady. I am sure of it. And with that ruling, the NFL will have lost significant autonomy it previously enjoyed. And Brady will be additionally exonerated. At that point, I believe the owners should do what should have been done all along and that is to fire Goodell and all the other NFL employees involved with Deflate gate and to apologize to the Patriots.
    Would it be nice to have the draft picks back? Sure. Are they essential to the continued Patriots dynasty? Of course not.


    I really can’t fathom any reason why this clown would still have a job after he gets beaten (again) in court. In fact I bet he won’t. I mean – what’s the point of a commissioner if nothing the commissioner says is able to stick? The league could do so much better than an empty suit in charge.

    I hold a glimmer of hope that the end is only weeks away.

    #FireGoodell

  74. What’s funny about this King thing is this:

    King was on Goodell’s payroll so to speak, with Spygate. They all believed Goodell out of the gate. But, once it became clear the facts in Spygate were misrepresented

    I will never forget a WEEI interview in Boston in Sept of 2007 on the Dale and Holley show where King’s cell phone mysteriously crapped out when King was questioned about backing Goodell in the Spygate lies.

    King now realizes Goodell is a liar, which is why he’s backing the Pats here, as much as he is straddling the fence.

    King is wrong in that he keeps pretending two lower level ball boys joking around some evidence. LMAO

  75. The Pats never tried to hide from what they did during Spygate. They owned it from day 1. Belichick contended from the start what he thought was doing was legal. For those who want to point out repeat offenses by the Pats understand the difference is the Pats never owned Deflategate. Nor should they. It’s fine to point out subterfuge by the Pats so long as you understand it’s pure fiction and based on nothing.

  76. I don’t think we should get our draft picks back. I love my team but I’m also not naive. Something happened when the ball boy is nicknamed “the deflator”, Brady publicly admitting to like under inflated footballs, the deflators bathroom trip and not remember which stall he used, is just too much smoke for there not to be fire. It’s done and now it’s time to move on.

  77. Bill and the Patriots will be fine even without their picks. Bill has compensatory picks coming this year and he has a number of free agents that want to play for him. That said, he has an excellent record of drafting guys that add value in the first round. Despite always picking late in the round he has never had an out and out bust. He has drafted 15 first rounders and only Lawrence Maroney didn’t work out (and he was highly regarded).

  78. footballfanatic says:
    Feb 22, 2016 11:38 AM
    =====================
    How many times does the lobbied to lower the PSI rule have to be corrected? You are conflating lobbying to change ball prep with the PSI rule. They aren’t the same. There are rules for ball prep and a separate rule for PSI levels.

    We had a great opportunity to examine ball deflation in Jan in the Min game. How was that handled? The balls were swapped out. To answer the question on if it could happen to another team I guess we’ll never know. To suggest that is normal would be over reaching. To suggest it would have happened prior to deflate gate would be more over reaching. That singular act proves the NFL knows there “facts” are pure fiction.

    It’s also fiction to suggest every QB would have surrendered their phone. We already know that’s not true and we can thanks BFavre for that. The same phone that would have more than proved if pictures were actually sent.

    But I do agree. The coincidences of the NFL behavior really is hard to ignore.

  79. Belichick’s 1st-round picks: Richard Seymour, Daniel Graham, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Benjamin Watson, Logan Mankins, Laurence Maroney, Brandon Meriweather, Jerod Mayo, Devin McCourty, Nate Solder, Chandler Jones, Dont’a Hightower, Dominique Easley and Malcom Brown.

  80. Are you kidding me? There is so much circumstantial evidence those balls were deflated no reasonable person would conclude differently.
    ===
    Uh huh. And what about the direct evidence that the balls weren’t deflated?

  81. Let me get this straight last year off season. I learned more about the PSI pressure in footballs than I ever wanted to.

    The NFL makes rules changes to show how serious they are about the PSI pressure.

    Then they do not take 1 PSI pressure of any of the games in the whole 2015 season.

    Can you explain to me how the Patriots were not targeted?

    But in the spirit of cheat to win, lets give it up for Peyton Manning. You do know if he was on the Patriots media would still be crying HGH.

  82. What would be nice is for Kraft to send all of the other owners a gift wrapped card, saying they are welcome for the parity gift the Patriots have given each of them. Seriously, what other team has given so much to their competitors in an effort to make them more competitive.

  83. Spygate = Delfategate

    As time goes by we learn it was a fraudulent and misrepresented event, used to punish the Pats for parity and petty jealousy by some NFL owners, namely the ones all entitled thinking their franchise is arrogantly on NE’s level.

    This is why these teams have reps on the Comp. Committee, too. THey change rules, add rules, subtract rules, etc, to go after the Pats.

    If the Pats DO ANYTHING, like implement the Ineligible/Eligible Receiver thing, even though other teams deployed it, it’s deemed “illegal” out of the woodwork, with a rule change administered by Goodell and at least 25 NFL teams.

    So, just who is doing the cheating here?

    A victimized NE team or Goodell and his corrupt, colluding owners like Woody Johnson, Irsay, Bisciotti, etc?

    Harbaugh picked up that phone to Pagano after he lost to the Pats in the divisional rd and basically said “How can I get revenge on Brady?”

    That kicked this whole framejob attempt into gear and now all honest, educated people, including federal judges and mediahead who get paid to bash the Pats, see right through the web of Goodell LIES.

    Sue for defamation, collusion, sabotage and fraud.

    Brady would win EASILY.

    Pats need to get their picks back, or we’ll see you in court Roger, along with Harbaugh, Pagano, Irsay, Grigson Goodelll, Pash, Kensil, etc.

    We’ll see all of your phones and computers, won’t we, Roger?

  84. Ok, guys, really, stop.

    I did it.

    Tom didn’t ask me to….. directly. It was more of a wink-nod thing.

    That’s why Mr. Kraft didn’t fight it. All of you should know, so you stop looking foolish defending us all the time.

    Don’t worry about me, I got a nice cush job at one of his subsidiaries, so my family and I are fine. Tom’s fine too, but he’s still a little salty about it, and won’t text me back for some reason.

  85. Do you think that picture of Goodell is him thinking of more things to lie about?

    I do. It’s what Goodell does. It’s what he is best at. Just can’t trust that face.

  86. There are three possible outcomes from the currently pending NFL appeal pf Judge Berman’s previous to the 3rd Circuit court of appeals due in the next week or two:

    One is that they uphold Berman’s ruling saying that it was within the scope of his jurisdiction, and this is end game for the NFL unless they want to appeal to the Supreme Court, who is very unlikely to want to take up such a trivial matter.

    The second is that that they overturn Berman’s decision outright and uphold the NFL’s suspension as being within their CBA rights. At that point Brady and the NFLPA could appeal to a higher court, but likely would not prevail for the same reasons.

    A third possibility, and the one (as a Pats fan) that I hope actually happens is that the appeals court can remand the case back to Berman’s court for further consideration. Berman has already laid the ground work to investigate and assess the NFL’s case against Brady in his previous appeal decision, but stayed away from it because it was not within the scope of the NFL’s appeal. The appeal was strictly about the rights of the NFL within the CBA.

    Remember, it was the NFL that originally appealed to Berman’s court. If it comes back to Berman’s court on remand that opens up his ability to subpoena all of the existing evidence and evaluate the conclusions of Goodell’s ruling. He may even have the ability to collect new evidence and testimony. That would most likely be an extremely embarrassing situation for the NFL. But it would have been there own doing having appealed Berman’s original decsion.

  87. Ted Wells found the Patriots were not guilty of whatever happened during the AFC Championship Game on January 18, 2015, with Robert Kraft and the coaches unaware of what McNally and Jastremski were (allegedly) doing, with Tom Brady only being ‘generally aware’.

    Punishing the entire franchise, with a $1 million fine and the forfeited draft picks, for the actions of two low-level employees is a huge overreaction. Everyone knows this including, I imagine, Roger Goodell, but he’s not going to change his mind because the 31 other owners don’t want him to.

  88. dal1as says:
    Feb 22, 2016 1:07 PM
    Uh no!! That was was just Peter King begging the league because they are his favorite team.
    _________________

    Mort wasn’t the only one that was used to get the false 2 psi under narrative out there. King wasn’t squarely in NE’s corner until after he realized he’d been used.

  89. unless they want to appeal to the Supreme Court, who is very unlikely to want to take up such a trivial matter.

    —-

    At first I laughed at the idea of SCOTUS agreeing to take the case but now I wonder if the idea is not as silly as it seems… I think there are issues in play here like fairness of arbitration and bias of the arbitrator that might be interesting to SCOTUS.

    There could be a landmark ruling here that would set a foundation for across all of sports and beyond.

  90. Why would they get their picks back? The owner accepted responsibility for his franchise’s actions. Don’t plead guilty and accept the time if you didn’t do the crime. . .

    Plus, this is a REALLLLLLLYYYY good draft. Screw the Pats. Let Bill “I Draft Gronk Party” Bellicheck show the league how good he is without cheating, or at least without getting caught . . . again.

    When are they going to make an OJ style movie about Billy, anyways? We ignorant Americans love our crime and punishment stories, especially when Hollywood gets involved.

  91. King was duped by Goodell on Spygate and Deflategate.

    Now, he’s finally seeing it. Pats fans have known it all along, just like we all knew the mystery walkthrough tape was a lie, too.

  92. Correcting a wrong would not be a “gratuity”. It would be admitting a mistake was made and attempting to make up for it.

    That being said, the NFL will not give them back the draft pick as while it technically has nothing to do with the appeal of Berman’s ruling, flat out admitting that nothing went wrong to the point of absolving the team of punishment would be detrimental.

  93. Its a shame that the nfl wont give the stolen draft picks back. The nfl is a joke run by goodell. If he has any integrity , goodell should apoligize return the picks and then resign. Anyone with a brain can see the patriots got screwed

  94. bigbensbathroomseed says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:54 AM
    King is such a homer for the Patriots. I can hear Kraft telling King he real should bring this point up in his MMQB column, it would start a conversation. King is on the path to being irrelevant because his true colors are documented and being exposed.
    ================
    Except Mortensen and King broke the false PSI numbers within hours of each other.

    Homer indeed. LOL

  95. myhherrmann says:
    Feb 22, 2016 1:37 PM
    Why would they get their picks back? The owner accepted responsibility for his franchise’s actions. Don’t plead guilty and accept the time if you didn’t do the crime. .

    Apparently you are new to football, maybe you should stick to watching the wnba. He never plead guilty, in fact he did the total opposite. Hes a company guy so he didnt sue but he should have

  96. Even though the balls probably were not deflated they were most likely guilty of something else. Probably moved the ball 3 or 4 yards while the refs were distracted. So I think the punishment should stand. I think most non Patriots would agree.

  97. Should they, absolutely.

    Will they, absolutely not.

    Will some one please explain to me how an old guy with a bag of balls and a needle deflate 12 footballs to a somewhat exacting number in 90 seconds yet the NFL with all the people it had on the case at halftime have insufficient time to check all the footballs?

    Furthermore 3/4 Colts balls were under the limit and their punishment so far has been what exactly?

    Complete and utter fabrication. I think as fans we all would like to know the truth, but as it is you never will.

  98. Here’s the best reason I’ve found for why Kraft and New England can’t go after the NFL:

    The Patriots are members of a franchise of leagues and are contractually bound to follow the NFL’s constitution and other legal instruments. The NFL’s constitution makes clear teams can’t take their grievances to court and that any attempt to do so would likely be futile. Like the other 31 NFL ownership groups, Kraft has agreed to abide by the Constitution and assented to not sue the league or other owners.

    If Kraft determines that he has exhausted any internal appeals, he could attempt to take the matter to court. If a lawsuit advanced past a motion to dismiss, Kraft could force Goodell, Vincent and others to testify under oath. The same, though, would be true for Kraft, Brady(who already has testified Under Oath), and Bill Belichick, among other Patriots employees.”

    At this point, it is very clear that Kraft regrets the path he took in May.

    I am not a Patriots fan, but I don’t see how the NFL can keep those draft picks and money after the NFL and Goodell have been lying not only to the media but even to the court itself…IMO, it’s just wrong what the NFL has done and is still doing.

  99. Pats fan here and these penalties fall at the feet of Kraft who thought it was more important to keep harmony with the old boys club (that influenced Goodell to impose the penalties) than it was to go down fighting for the name of his franchise. I felt since it happened that Kraft threw his team and star QB under the bus for the sake of peace and harmony with his fellow billionaires.

    NFL leadership, or lack thereof, is a complete joke!

  100. Another Pats fan here, completely disappointed in Bob Kraft.

    It’s one thing to toe the company line, but to do it even when you know you’ve already been railroaded illegally with the misrepresentation known as Spygate, and now this?

    When will this end?

    What is stop these owners to collude with Goodell more so in the future here?

    Stupid non Pats fans actually think Kraft is accepting guilt because he accepted the punishment.

    It’s unbelievable.

    Kraft tried to have his cake and eat it too and now it’s backfired…….

    Unless….Unless……Kraft may have just been waiting for Goodell’s appeal to be slapped down, then to use the 2nd Fed Judge’s ruling as leverage to go back and ask for them back.

    It could very well be, that is what he’s waiting for (the process to play itself out)…

  101. Brady is going to get off on a technicality. Even though that technicality specifically calls into question how the circumstantial (at best) evidence was gathered. But yeah … a technicality.

  102. If PSI is so important to the integrity of the game. How could the league not log all data regarding PSI and the “random” checks that were done? The truth is, they collected the data and did not like it so they threw it out. Goodell didn’t want to look bad to the entire league.

  103. fishyinalittledishy says:
    Feb 22, 2016 2:13 PM

    Even though the balls probably were not deflated they were most likely guilty of something else. Probably moved the ball 3 or 4 yards while the refs were distracted. So I think the punishment should stand. I think most non Patriots would agree.
    _________________________________

    Not a Patriots fan but I disagree with you…How could ANY team do what you suggested? If the Refs are that distracted,(another subject for another day), that means the 80,000+ in the stadium, and the millions watching on TV were distracted as well? Jedi mind game maybe?

    Way out there…

  104. 31 other teams vote no…..in fact, a law suit would ultimately be filed by one or more of the teams if the NFL did an about face and tried to give N.E. an “extra” draft pick.

  105. Giving the pick back is the right thing to do, so of course Goodell won’t do it. No proof & the biggest penalty in the history of the league.

  106. chawk12thman says:
    Feb 22, 2016 3:43 PM
    31 other teams vote no…..in fact, a law suit would ultimately be filed by one or more of the teams if the NFL did an about face and tried to give N.E. an “extra” draft pick.
    =================================
    a law suit? Are you kidding me? Base on what?

  107. balt88 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:50 AM
    I’d say yes but how do you make it up to the Saints for taking away their coach and draft picks for something that was totally fabricated to try and head off a multi billion dollar lawsuit.

    ————————-

    The NFL had the evidence against the Saints. And they got it directly from an employee’s work (ie NFL) computer. Done. Guilty.

  108. It amazes me that so many reputable people with no dog in this fight have stated that the NFL botched this topic and those same reputable people backed it up with real facts. Yet there remain some fans of opposing teams who talk like rabid dogs when it comes to anything Patriots.

  109. Its hilarious that Roger the Clown keeps harping on integrity when he has no clue what the word means.

    I know that integrity is not pounding your chest and making a show of one team in particular to egg on fans to question the legitimacy of that game each and every single time they win a football game. That’s quite the opposite actually.

    Now gimme my $34M salary cause I’m already doing a better job as commissioner.

    🙂

  110. Listen to Tom Brady’s interview on that radio program when those guys bring up the lower psi levels. He cackles like a witch and says something like “now I’ve heard it all.”

    His laughter sounds nervous and forced. I mean it makes Hillary Clinton’s cackle seem genuine. Then he immediately contacted the deflator guy 2x. He later claimed to not know the guy’s number and subsequently destroyed the phone.

    No draft picks or cash returned. Nail Brady to the wall.

  111. When I played against my little brother in Ping-Pong or wiffle-ball, I had to play left handed to make it fair and competitive.

    The Patriots are playing with 31 little brothers.

  112. Of course they should return the picks to the Patriots, otherwise stop using the word “Integrity”.
    ————
    After their documented lies (on the record), NFL HQ has already forfeited the right to ever use the word “integrity” again. I’d trade the picks and cash in a minute for NFL HQ to agree to it.

  113. Listen to Tom Brady’s interview on that radio program … his laughter sounds nervous and forced … then he immediately contacted the deflator guy 2x. He later claimed to not know the guy’s number

    ————-

    Wrong and wrong. Brady sounded surprised/incredulous and he didn’t call the deflator, he called the other guy. If you want your garbage rant to be taken seriously, start with a whole lot less garbage and end with some amount of truth.

  114. Roger will never cave and give those picks back. He has handled Deflategate so poorly he needs to go. Won’t March 3rd be about 15 months into this all?
    I agree with GOODELLMUSTGO, Goodell must go.
    Spygate he hastily acts on in four days and destroys evidence after ruling on it.
    Deflategate he drags out for over a year. He can’t be trusted or believed in either of these scandals IMO.

  115. fishyinalittledishy says:
    Feb 22, 2016 2:13 PM
    Even though the balls probably were not deflated they were most likely guilty of something else. Probably moved the ball 3 or 4 yards while the refs were distracted. So I think the punishment should stand. I think most non Patriots would agree.
    ____________________________________
    You’re being sarcastic, right? If not, this has to be the funniest thing I’ve read in a long, long time!

  116. silverhornet says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:48 AM
    No way. The Pats chose not to appeal. Well, that should tell you all you need to know.
    ******************
    It doesn’t tell us anything, but it says something about you. Did you read the part where there was no mechanism to ever get those picks back? Kraft didn’t have an appeal process like players do.

  117. If Patriots and their fans hate the league so much because they suffer from all the injustice, maybe they should start their own league and bring all their idiotic blindsided fans with them.

  118. NFL won’t be able to give the draft picks back, but they have agreed to add an asterisk to the Lombardi Trophy next to any team other than the Patriots that might win it the next 5 years. And Roger Goodell has agreed to pay a $1Million dollar fine to the Patriots to compensate them for his dishonest, vengeful attempt to distract the media from the Ray Rice fiasco that was still boiling when all this started. You do remember that the Ray Rice mess and the egg-on-his-face court overruling of Goodell (sound familiar?) happened just about a month before the fateful AFCCG…but that’s just circumstantial evidence….

    As time goes on, it becomes more probable than not that people from New Orleans, New England, Saint Louis and all other regions that have been screwed over by the NFL have the opinion that Roger Goodell is an unscrupulous, dishonest person with no integrity.

  119. “As time goes on, it becomes more probable than not that people from New Orleans, New England, Saint Louis and all other regions that have been screwed over by the NFL have the opinion that Roger Goodell is an unscrupulous, dishonest person with no integrity.”
    ================================
    With what appears to be an overwhelming disapproval of Goodell’s performance by fans of just about all teams, the fact that the team owners just sit back and pat ole Roger on the back speaks volumes. It’ll take sponsor threats to create any kind of change. AP sat for a year when a major sponsor threatened to pull their money.

  120. silverhornet says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:48 AM
    No way. The Pats chose not to appeal. Well, that should tell you all you need to know.
    ******************

    Tom Brady chose to testify under oath.

    Roger Goodell chose to tell the ball boys to stay home and not testify at the appeal hearing

    Yes indeed… That should tell you all you need to know.

    Not guilty.

    🙂

  121. The real question is why did Kraft give up the picks and money without challenge? He later had an opportunity to appeal his decision and he didn’t. Pretty odd behavior for an owner that claims his team/player is clean as a daisy!

  122. The real question is why did Kraft give up the picks and money without challenge?


    No the real question is why were the Deflator and the other guy told by the NFL that their testimony under oath was not welcome at Brady’s appeal hearing.

    Pretty odd behaviour for a league with “integrity” and who wanted to know the truth, yes?

    🙂

  123. The main reason that people don’t like the NFL and Roger Goodell is that they don’t admit when they are wrong.

    Of course they should give the picks back!

    anyone saying otherwise is just saying that because New England beats there team up all the time.

    #justthetruth

  124. New England doesn’t own Denver and I say NFL keeps the picks and the bucks. Kraft got caught with his hand in the cookie jar so deep, he thought that would be a quick out. He was wrong. His reasoning that he didn’t want to create trouble for the other owners is hogwash. The Deflategate accusations against the Pats had no bearing on the other teams or their bottom line. In fact the owners, through Goodell, favored the investigation as they were tired of the Pat’s cheating!

  125. yes, they should get their draft picks back. Of course. EVERYONE is jealous of the Patriots and their fans. Give them back and you all should apologize. I’m waiting, turds.

  126. Speaking of Deflator, say again why the Pats fired him if he did nothing wrong? Tick tock

    —-
    Except they didn’t fire him.

    🙂

  127. don’t worry all you cry baby *Patriots fans can now use this as ammo for your revenge tour 2.0 in 2016 cause it worked out so well this time around.Ya’all looked just so dominant in the AFCC game..It’s a bit ironic too that you guys lost more than usual and fumbled more than usual this season as the NFL kept an eye on you but yeah, I know it’s the NFL’s crooked refs to blame cause that doesn’t sound like a crazy,pathetic excuse or anything….Stay delusional *Pat’s fan….I can’t wait to mop the floor with your sorry team next season in Pittsburgh where you can’t cross wires to gain an advantage….And you won’t be able to roll over to the Jets either to avoid playing us in the playoff’s again next year….Pittsburgh leads series 15-13 ….gonna be 16-13 after next year. the picks are gone, not EVER coming back…the evidence is insurmountable the ideal gas law proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that human tampering had to occur in order for that much pressure to be lost…The *Patriots cheat,they lie,they bribe judges,they pay off refs,they cross wires in headsets,they use illegal formations,they spy on visitors in the locker room, they illegally record other teams signals and worst of all *Brady wears uggs and is a metro sexual sissyboy.

  128. gaffya says:
    Feb 23, 2016 5:11 PM

    Stay delusional *Pat’s fan….I can’t wait to mop the floor with your sorry team next season in Pittsburgh where you can’t cross wires to gain an advantage….And you won’t be able to roll over to the Jets either to avoid playing us in the playoff’s again next year….Pittsburgh leads series 15-13 ….gonna be 16-13 after next year. the picks are gone, not EVER coming back…the evidence is insurmountable the ideal gas law proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that human tampering had to occur in order for that much pressure to be lost…The *Patriots cheat,they lie,they bribe judges,they pay off refs,they cross wires in headsets,they use illegal formations,they spy on visitors in the locker room, they illegally record other teams signals and worst of all *Brady wears uggs and is a metro sexual sissyboy.

    —————————-

    Do you seriously think the Pats lost to the Jets on purpose just to avoid meeting the Steelers in the playoffs? In case you forgot, the Pats missed out on HFA by only one game, meaning if they had beaten the Jets, the AFCCG would have been played at Gillette (and possibly with a different end result).

    News flash for you – the Pats would much rather have faced the Steelers at home than the Broncos in Denver. The Steelers have nobody to blame but themselves for missing the playoffs since they couldn’t even manage a win against the lowly Ravens when they had absolutely everything on the line to play for.

    I won’t bother with addressing any of the other foil-hat-inspired falsehoods in the rest of your rant.

    Oh yeah, and Big Ben is a drama queen and a diva – the first player in NFL history to ride the cart off the playing field for a shoulder injury.

  129. gaffya says:
    Feb 23, 2016 5:11 PM
    don’t worry all you cry baby *Patriots fans can now use this as ammo for your revenge tour 2.0 in 2016 cause it worked out so well this time around.Ya’all looked just so dominant in the AFCC game..It’s a bit ironic too that you guys lost more than usual and fumbled more than usual this season as the NFL kept an eye on you but yeah, I know it’s the NFL’s crooked refs to blame cause that doesn’t sound like a crazy,pathetic excuse or anything….Stay delusional *Pat’s fan….I can’t wait to mop the floor with your sorry team next season in Pittsburgh where you can’t cross wires to gain an advantage….And you won’t be able to roll over to the Jets either to avoid playing us in the playoff’s again next year….Pittsburgh leads series 15-13 ….gonna be 16-13 after next year. the picks are gone, not EVER coming back…the evidence is insurmountable the ideal gas law proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that human tampering had to occur in order for that much pressure to be lost…The *Patriots cheat,they lie,they bribe judges,they pay off refs,they cross wires in headsets,they use illegal formations,they spy on visitors in the locker room, they illegally record other teams signals and worst of all *Brady wears uggs and is a metro sexual sissyboy.

    —–

    And…..inhale….ahhhh.

    🙂

  130. gaffya says:
    Feb 23, 2016 5:11 PM
    ==============
    The fact the revenge tour stopped at the AFCGG with “properly inflated balls” still speaks to the complete nonsense behind the deflategate sham. The Pats were the third best teams in fumbles last year with a grand total of one more than the previous year. Am I missing the irony there? Or am I “delusional”? Oh I know unless you’re a Steelers fan you’re not smart enough to figure it out.

    This just in the Pats were responsible for every single headset communication problem last year – rolleyes

  131. gaffya says:
    Feb 23, 2016 5:11 PM
    ==============
    Baltimore says Hi. If it weren’t for the Jets the Steelers would have been watching the Pats play not once but twice.

    🙂

  132. Just let Brady play Denvers D again… The flat football won’t matter when Brady is getting the crud beat out of him. Please… Just send him to Denver again.. He will be “handled”.

  133. artvan15 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:51 AM
    We don’t need the picks back. The NFL has to do this to make the rest of the league competitive with us. They don’t want the Pats in the Super Bowl for the next 5 years.
    ————————————————————
    Is that the Official Patriots excuse “If we don’t make it, it’s cos the league are against us!”
    Never beaten by a better team, there is ALWAYS an excuse.

    I don’t want to put it to you the wrong way….but the Patriots don’t win the Superbowl every year. Your comment makes it sound like they do.
    I’m sure Robert Kraft would like them picks back.

  134. @babygaga, gaffya, etc. :

    eddievortex says:
    Feb 22, 2016 2:18 PM

    Here’s the best reason I’ve found for why Kraft and New England can’t go after the NFL:

    The Patriots are members of a franchise of leagues and are contractually bound to follow the NFL’s constitution and other legal instruments. The NFL’s constitution makes clear teams can’t take their grievances to court and that any attempt to do so would likely be futile. Like the other 31 NFL ownership groups, Kraft has agreed to abide by the Constitution and assented to not sue the league or other owners.

    If Kraft determines that he has exhausted any internal appeals, he could attempt to take the matter to court. If a lawsuit advanced past a motion to dismiss, Kraft could force Goodell, Vincent and others to testify under oath. The same, though, would be true for Kraft, Brady(who already has testified Under Oath), and Bill Belichick, among other Patriots employees.”

    At this point, it is very clear that Kraft regrets the path he took in May.

    I am not a Patriots fan, but I don’t see how the NFL can keep those draft picks and money after the NFL and Goodell have been lying not only to the media but even to the court itself…IMO, it’s just wrong what the NFL has done and is still doing.
    ______________________________

    A commenter posted this, maybe it will help you out.

  135. King is such a homer for the Patriots.
    ———————————-
    Mmm…an SI writer from New Jersey who has worked for Cincinnati Enquirer and Newsday is somehow a ‘homer’ for the Patriots.

    Apparently anyone who doesn’t yell ‘cheater’ at the Flying Elvis logo is a ‘homer’.

  136. They will get their picks back.. This was a publicity stunt and Brady was in on it… Kept the NFL in the headlines all off season…

    Now we have the same situation with Peyton.. And that will magically disappear before next season.

  137. Addressing all the completely fabricated falsehoods perpetrated on this thread would take too long, but the only one that matters is below:

    Factman et al. – they got “caught” in the AFC Championship last year.

    Actual fact: No, they didn’t. They were accused, and the balls tested were clearly within a range consistent with ambient temperature changes. The balls therefore, were not artificially deflated.

    ANYTHING above and beyond that concerning phones, texts, headsets, judges, etc. is immaterial. The sting operation against the very successful Patriots organization was rightly foiled. Judge Berman (the only unbiased party to rule on the case) was correct. No evidence = no penalty.

    Give the picks back that were unlawfully stolen out of spite.

  138. all the opinions in the world do not change the 3 SIMPLE FACT’S
    1.The *Patriots were caught cheating…again.
    2.The draft picks and money are never ever ever coming back like,ever.
    3.The NFL is going to win the appeal and *Brady will spend the 1st 4 games of his LAST season on the bench……..

    these things are undisputed truth.and absolute certainties….
    have fun pressing thumbs down

  139. The corrupt NFL commissioner and his lapdog Troy Vincent have stolen the Patriots first round draft choice and forbid them to obtain another pick in the first round. If I were Robert Kraft I would call a team picking in the late 20’s of the first round and tell them to select the player the Patriots want. I would then wait until the day after the draft and swing a trade with that team for the player selected in the first round. The Patriots are a deep team without a large number of glaring needs so if I were Kraft I would over pay slightly just to make this deal happen solely to outmaneuver and stick it up the backside of the NFL in general and Roger Goodell in particular.

  140. factman66 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:44 AM

    Is this a joke?

    The Pats can have their draft picks back when Robert Kraft gives back the spygate trophies.
    ================================
    The fact that you have that many thumbs up for your ridiculous rant can only mean two things: A) You and your clan continuously froth at the mouth with your finger clicking OR B) You guys have some kind of Nintendo cheat code to input those likes because anyone with a brain and the knowledge of football would disagree with such utter disgusting rhetoric that you and others continuously spew. Do you really actually believe what you typed? You have to be a hired troll to keep these comments rolling. I get it, where is Ashton Kutcher? No matter if I or anyone else tries to debunk your BS, you’ll never get it or listen anyway. I digress. Like a runner targeting a hurdle, get over it.

  141. Come on now, where there is smoke, there is fire. This punishment is not just for deflate gate, but for the continuing bending, abusing, and breaking of the rules that Belicheat and his minions have become the best at.

    They have proven that they don’t care about the punishment as long as they win the trophy. Disgusting.

  142. gaffya says:
    Feb 24, 2016 11:14 PM
    all the opinions in the world do not change the 3 SIMPLE FACT’S
    1.The *Patriots were caught cheating…again.
    2.The draft picks and money are never ever ever coming back like,ever.
    3.The NFL is going to win the appeal and *Brady will spend the 1st 4 games of his LAST season on the bench……..

    these things are undisputed truth.and absolute certainties….
    have fun pressing thumbs down
    —————————————

    Care to make a wager on that? #1 is unproven. #2 is probably true. I’m betting that there is no chance of #3. Come on, put up or shut up.

  143. So it looks like 3 pro labor judges appointed by Democrats have been assigned to hear Brady’s appeal.

    EXCELLENT news for the 4 time World Champions! 🙂

    And excellent news for all intelligent football fans everywhere. After Goodell loses, his seat HAS to be heating up. No doubt about it.

  144. silvernblacksabbath says:
    Feb 24, 2016 3:06 PM

    They will get their picks back.. This was a publicity stunt and Brady was in on it… Kept the NFL in the headlines all off season…

    Now we have the same situation with Peyton.. And that will magically disappear before next season.


    Nah, but lololol if that were true.

  145. What the hell is going with manning, me thinks he has no intention of retiring and is just waiting to be releashed. Wouldn’t you retire before then rather than be embarrassed

  146. It doesn’t matter if the NFL gives back the draft picks.

    No matter what nefarious scheme the league office comes up with to try and stop them, the Patriots are going to be in the playoffs, and likely in the AFCCG.

    They were a missed field goal away from going to the Super Bowl this last season.

  147. 3. *Brady will spend the 1st 4 games of his LAST season on the bench……..
    ———————————-
    Maybe he will, but it won’t be in 2016, and it won’t be because of a suspension.

  148. If Goodell isn’t the most incompetent, unworthy candidate to ever amass $300 million dollars (to date) in his career, I don’t know who is.

    No one can convince me that there aren’t dozens of more qualified humans to oversee this league.

    The only saving grace is that, in this appeal, he will certainly lose again, but when does this historically inept individual finally get removed from his post? The owners can get another puppet in there that won’t embarrass the office, league, and product at every turn.

    The lesson is, sometimes promoting the guy who started in the mail room isn’t such a good idea.

  149. Hell No!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Patriots are a bunch of cheaters and they deserve to be stripped of picks.

    And Brady will serve his punishment once the league refiles charges on him in April.

  150. And I still don’t understand how the punishment was intended to placate the owners who felt the Patriots weren’t punished enough for Spygate. They got fined and lost a first round pick. Agree or not with that ruling, they paid the piper. There was no score to settle on Spygate. Attaching Deflategate to Spygate is like connecting the Ray Rice debacle to the Concussion Crisis.

  151. Brady will never serve any suspension. Even if he loses the NFL’s appeal, the next step is appealing before all 22 appellate judges. Then SCOTUS. Neither side will give it up. We should all live so long. Brady will be on a beach in Costa Rica with his supermodel wife and kids, retired, long before the final ruling comes down

  152. The only impartial party to date has walloped the NFL in court. Most expect more of the same in appeals court. Not sure how the NFL can justify any punishment after that.

  153. The NFL asserting that 345 Park Avenue is a sovereign nation isn’t going to sway any court in this nation.

  154. BOTH the Pats and the Saints require to have their penalties reversed. The teams were right, NFL was wrong. In order to re-establish any credibility with the public, NFL HQ must once again come to be viewed as competent and fair-minded, neither of which they are considered today. Cut through the blankin’ red tape and do the right thing! Instead, NFL HQ is today run like your worst nightmare of a disfunctional US corporation run by a Legend in His Own Mind (only) doofus with a Caesar complex who thinks he’s infallible but is a bad joke to everyone with a pulse. Get it right.

  155. Absolutely give the pick back as long as on doing so all Pats fans go directly to the top of the Empire State building and jump off.

  156. Bogus “case” based on bullsnot wrapped in hubris and a big pinch of jealousy.

    I hate the Patriots. I really do. But – given their treatment of late – I hope they go 19-0 for the next five years.

    #FireTheFraudger

  157. warrensip says: There is plenty of evidence saying they were doing something. They still had a guy called the “deflater” , texts about deflating the ball, the guy taking the balls to the bathroom and so many other things.
    ==================================

    Um – you mean the texts where the “deflator” said that the footballs in the Jets game were 16 when Tom wanted them 13 psi?

    How on earth do you twist a text citing Brady’s preference for footballs .5 PSI HIGHER than the minimum to be proof of cheating?

    It’s proof the OFFICIALS cheat – that’s clear.

    And on the bathroom thing, noting that the officials themselves could barely TEST 16 footballs before halftime was over, why do you think someone could have perfectly deflated 12 football in 90 seconds in a bathroom stall

    According to Eli Manning’s “deflators” in a NY Times story (Eli Manning’s Footballs Months in the Making) they are told to NEVER leave the footballs unattended

    And yes – that means not leaving them around if they use the men’s room

  158. NO……………AND……… The STEELERS should lose theirs for what PORTER AND MUNCHAK did during playoff game…IF Burfict can be suspended 3 games for alleged dirty hit, Shazier not, for alleged dirty hit, then the nfl should make a example of how coaches shouldn’t be attacking opposing players by taking the STEELERS DRAFT PICKS…ALL OF THEM!!!

  159. they should leave BRADY Alone, pick on him just because HE LIKES DEFLATED BALLS, could be considered SEXIST!!!

  160. beachsidejames says:
    Feb 27, 2016 11:17 AM
    Absolutely give the pick back as long as on doing so all Pats fans go directly to the top of the Empire State building and jump off.

    Sorry, no thanks, that would mean we’d have to enter the filth ridden hole known as NY..

  161. Should the NFL give the Pats their draft picks back? No.

    Instead, the NFL should take their Lombardi Trophies back from the ’01, ’03 and ’04 seasons. The Patriots should just consider themselves lucky that the NFL secretively burned all the evidence for them, and call it a day.

  162. Why is bigblu73 perplexed?

    Even WITH EVERYTHING considered, Wells himself concludes, and the NFL admits in court, that they have no direct evidence that ANYTHING occurred.

    IF it did occur they THINK they know who was responsible.

    And of course since that time the NFL refuses to admit that the Laws of Physics apply to footballs.

    Is this REALLY so tough for bigblu73 to comprehend? Apparently both he and Goodell are of similar intellects.

    IF footballs were deflated, then you have to determine WHO RE-INFLATED them by halftime – because the PSI was EXACTLY where it should be (though the NFL won’t admit this because, they apparently still think the world is flat)

    Please don’t be as gullible as Goodell hopes you are

  163. factman66 says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:44 AM
    Is this a joke?

    The Pats can have their draft picks back when Robert Kraft gives back the spygate trophies.
    =======================
    Are you daft?

    the “spygate” trophies were all earned before “spygate” was a rule…I mean a written memo illegally enforced by the NFL

  164. bigblu73 says:
    Feb 28, 2016 1:10 PM

    OR MAYBE ITS THE PART ABOUT THE BALL GUY GOING TO “USE THE BATHROOM”
    IN A RESTROOM
    WITHOUT
    A TOILET

    THAT HAS US

    “HATERS”

    PERPLEXED
    ________________________

    It was a bathroom that had a commode and NOT a urinal…So how can it be a “restroom” without one, both, or the other?
    No more perplexities now.

  165. silverhornet says:
    Feb 22, 2016 10:48 AM
    No way. The Pats chose not to appeal. Well, that should tell you all you need to know.
    ======================
    Can all you haters truly be this numb?

    Kraft does not speak for Tom Brady, and Brady is going to win his 2nd court appeal hearing. Well, that should tell you all you need to know. No tampering occurred unless you don’t believe in basic science.

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