Multiple suspensions expose Cowboys, Steelers to major fines

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Nearly a decade ago, the NFL crafted a policy aimed at promoting good player behavior by requiring teams to surrender a portion of a suspended player’s lost salary as a fine, if multiple players are suspended in a given year.

In 2013, the then-five-year-old policy likely cost the Seahawks more than $60,000 for a trio of suspensions to offensive lineman Allen Barbre, safety Winston Guy, and cornerback Brandon Browner. The Rams likely faced a similar problem in 2013, due to multiple player suspensions.

As noted by Adam Schefter of ESPN.com, the policy that was first applied to the Cowboys in 2008 will be applied to them again, given the suspensions of Randy Gregory, DeMarcus Lawrence, and Rolando McClain. The policy as currently written requires in the event of three suspensions the payment of 25 percent of the collective forfeited base salary to the league, with a maximum payment of $250,000.

With Gregory due to make $608,406 in 2016, Lawrence on the books this year for $920,604, and McClain owed $1.25 million, the Cowboys easily got to the $250,000 ceiling. (Absent the limit, they would have owed 25 percent of $1.095 million, or $273,750.) If another player is suspended, the Cowboys will be required to cough up a full third of the lost wages for each suspended player.

The Steelers could be facing a similar problem, with the full-season suspension of Martavis Bryant and the looming suspension of running back Le’Veon Bell. The policy requires the forfeiture of 15 percent of the lost salary when two players are suspended. With Bryant due to make $600,000 this year (he’ll lose all of it) and Bell slated to earn $966,900 (he’ll lose $235,294 if the suspension is upheld), 15 percent of the lost salary equates to $125,294.

“It’s obviously so important to us in drafting guys with the right character but sometimes things happen that are unforeseen,” Cowboys COO Stephen Jones said earlier this year. “Right now, I totally get that it may not look like it in terms of the mishaps we’ve had here, but it’s certainly very important to us and something we’ll continue to evaluate and try to be better.”

Ultimately, giving up a chunk of the salary that otherwise won’t be paid won’t deter teams from taking risks on players who may be predisposed to engaging in behavior that could get them suspended or provide an even stronger incentive to keep troubled players out of trouble. To get the attention of teams, they must face the potential loss of draft picks.

Previously, the possibility has been considered in connection with multiple violations of the Personal Conduct Policy. That idea never went anywhere. If the league truly wants to reduce suspensions under all policies, that’s the best (and perhaps only) way to do it.

70 responses to “Multiple suspensions expose Cowboys, Steelers to major fines

  1. ….”sometimes things happen that are unforeseen.” Cowboys COO Stephen Jones said. Quite a statement coming from a team that drafted Gregory and signed McClain and Hardy. It’s now wonder they haven’t sniffed the playoffs in many a year with that mindset. All teams make mistakes with players, but man, the Cowboys are like junkies with it.

  2. “It’s obviously so important to us in drafting guys with the right character but sometimes things happen that are unforeseen,” Cowboys COO Stephen Jones said

    Right, because who would have ever guessed that a guy who was forced to retire for a year due to his issues or a guy that wasn’t even able to pass the drug test for the combine would continue to have issues. I’d almost have respect for Jones if he just said “Yeah, we just don’t care as long as they can ball out”

  3. My interpretation of the policy is the league is not allowing teams to save money because they have suspended players who are not getting paid.

    They are forcing the team to not have the services of the player – but to still have to pay for them.

    I would be surprised if the owners would allow draft pick forfeiture except under narrow circumstances

  4. It’s obviously so important to us in drafting guys with the right character but sometimes things happen that are unforeseen,” Cowboys COO Stephen Jones said

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You, sir, have a future in the Clinton administration

  5. They may be facing a fine, but a NFL team can find 250k in it’s couch cushions. That’s not much of a deterrent, at least compared to losing important players for extended periods of time.

  6. “America’s teams” but the Steelers are a “model” franchise. Hard nosed football right? If these weren’t the biggest bandwagon teams in the league, they’d be getting A LOT more flack.

  7. As a Redskins fan, when I saw the schedule… I said well at least we have the Steelers and Cowboys in weeks 1 & 2 because like death and taxes, they always have suspended players to start the season. This year they have not disappointed again.

  8. Owners of NFL teams are billionaires. $250,000 is the equivalent of $25 to someone who makes $100k. I’m not sure I’d call that a “major fine.”

  9. Patriots got fined $1 million, lost 1st and 4th round pick just for a text message from Dorito Dink. Don’t feel bad for the Steelers and cheating Mike at all.

  10. Take away the Cowboys’ 2nd round pick next year. It’s not like Jerrah uses it wisely anyway, though one could say given that, that’s really no punishment.

  11. Let’s look at some things that are associated with this post…

    -Pete Carrol
    -Jeff Fisher
    -Jerry Jones
    -Steelers (Empire of steroids, coke, and cheap shots since 1970)

    But thats none of my business.

  12. The NFL allows players with red flags to participate in the combine, and allows them to enter the draft. Thus telling teams it’s okay to draft them and have them on their team. Then turn around and want to make the team pay financially and with draft picks for taking a chance on a player the NFL, through their actions, deemed as someone they want representing the NFL.

    How about the NFL not allow a player to participate in the combine, and not allow them to enter the draft if there are red flags. If a player with red flags wants in the NFL, they’ll have to enter as an UDFA and be paid as such. If a player presents with no red flags for a minimum of 2 years before entering the draft, then he should be allowed to participate in the combine and enter the draft.

    In the event a player tests positive for a banned substance just before the combine, he should be immediately dismissed and taken off the draft eligible list.

  13. Stay classy Cowboys. That team owes its Super Bowl wins in the Jerry Jones era to Jimmy Johnson. Otherwise it’s been a train wreck.

  14. LOL @ The Cowboys, SKins, etc, claiming to be concerned about character.

    What;’s next, Baltimore will chime in and say the same thing?

    The Skins are supposed to be considering Greg Hardy.

    LMAO

    At least the Pats with Hernandez knew of his past and thought he was genuinely matured and past all of his high school antics.

    They were wrong, paid for it by giving him a new deal ahead of schedule, but never backed him once the murder charge made it obvious how guilty he was.

    Baltimore backed Ray Lewis and now has a statue of the creepy double murderer outside of their stadium, for crying out loud.

  15. Yeah, Stephen, sure. Who writes your scripts… Trump? Your whole organization turns a blind eye in hopes of finally winning something again. “America’s Team”? What a joke.

  16. This reminds me of…..

    Hey fellas, look what I found in my wallet. Your years salary. (Flips money at the FBI agents) I call them fun coupons. See that?

  17. “It’s obviously so important to us in drafting guys with the right character but sometimes things happen that are unforeseen,” Cowboys COO Stephen Jones said

    “Don’t let someone tell you this country isn’t great – that we need to make it great again.” Michelle Obama

    You see, you just need to set the bar as low as possible to make you happy.

  18. Steelers and Cowboys….. what have they really done in the era of free agency? Unrestricted free agency as we know it today began in 1993. So I ask what have these two franchises done in the span of time.

    Tomlin inherited a team from Cowher 2 years removed from winning a super bowl and has coached in 2….won 1 loss 1 in 9 seasons

    Cowher was also 1 & 1 in super bowls.

    In fact since 1980 the Steelers have been to only 4 super bowls (winning 2 and losing 2) in 35 years.

    Cowboys – since 1996 they haven’t been to a super bowl- that is a 19 year stretch of not making to the big game.
    They have gone through 6 head coaches.

    These franchises just don’t have the metal toughness in the upper management to control the players keep them in check. In the end any team in that mode of operation is doomed to fail……sign bad players you end up with losing records… they will and do effect a team.. records bear this out.

  19. The teams are not losing any money to the fines. They are just keeping a little less than they could have. If they are fined $100K but do not have to pay $2M in salary for the games missed, they are still saving $1.9M during the suspensions.

    If the team had to forfeit ALL of that salary AND an additional fine then it might have some teeth.

    A better solution would be to actually pay the player and have the player pay a fine equal to the salary for the games missed and then fine the teams. The team pays for services that do not happen and get fined. The player counts that money as income for taxes but then SPENDS it on the fine rather than simply not getting paid as much while also not getting taxed as much.

    Make it harder for the dirtbags to actually get in the league. Maybe rework the payment process for the agents. If an agent gets a percentage of each game check rather than each contract then they might be less inclined to represent a guy who will likely get into trouble and will be a bit more active in protecting the stupid clients from themselves.

  20. As an NFL Exec said recenlty:

    If this was the Pats, there’d be full scale investigations going on and severe punishments to follow.”

    Yep.

    Goodell and the good ol boys (not including Kraft or the Pats), run the league, cheating at every turn.

  21. vaughnchef, fyi the Cowboys were in the playoffs in the 2014 season… not really what I would call “many a year”, more like a year.

  22. Honest Mike “Twelfth Man” Tomlin sets a bad example for his team by blatantly cheating and then blatantly lying about cheat. The players think they can get away with it just like Honest Mike did.

  23. nflrulebook says:
    Jul 28, 2016 10:15 AM
    Patriots got fined $1 million, lost 1st and 4th round pick just for a text message from Dorito Dink. Don’t feel bad for the Steelers and cheating Mike at all.

    ****

    To be fair, that punishment was for the long track record of cheating, not just a text message, or taking balls to the bathroom, or smashing cell phones, or….. well, you get my point.

  24. “12th man Tomlin”

    bawahah!

    Love it!

    On field cheating gets him a 100K fine.

    Made up “cheating” by the Pats gets draft picks stolen and multiple millions.

  25. @rideforjesus who said:

    “Steelers and Cowboys….. what have they really done in the era of free agency? Unrestricted free agency as we know it today began in 1993. So I ask what have these two franchises done in the span of time. Tomlin inherited a team from Cowher 2 years removed from winning a super bowl and has coached in 2….won 1 loss 1 in 9 seasons.”

    ===> Tomlin “inherited” an 8-8 team; a record that Tomlin has matched or bettered all 9 seasons, averaging between 10-11 games/season. How many other NFL coaches have zero losing seasons in their first nine years in the league? Three: Vince Lombardi, George Allen, John Madden. They’re all (obviously) in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

    “In fact since 1980 the Steelers have been to only 4 super bowls (winning 2 and losing 2) in 35 years.”

    ===> First off, nice job of cherry-picking a date – the year right after the Steelers won 4 Super Bowls in 6 years. Secondly, what does 1980 have to do with your theory about the post-Free Agency Era? The Steelers have been to 4 Super Bowls in the post-Free Agency Era – winning two of them. Very few teams can match that.

    “These franchises just don’t have the metal toughness in the upper management to control the players keep them in check. In the end any team in that mode of operation is doomed to fail……sign bad players you end up with losing records… they will and do effect a team.. records bear this out.”

    ===> Yeah, strong read on Tomlin and the Steelers. Really spot-on, Perfessor.

  26. To be fair, that punishment was for the long track record of cheating, not just a text message, or taking balls to the bathroom, or smashing cell phones, or….. well, you get my point.

    Really, if that is the standard reason for assessing stricter penalties than should be applied for an offense then I guess all of the teams in the NFL should be held to that greater standard. Lets see The Broncos for cap issues. The Cowboys for cap issues and personal behavior issues etc… the list will get quite long. The real reason the Pats were so severely penalized was because of the fact that they have been so good for so long people just dislike them. You can blame BB and his dry personality, you can blame whatever you want but the reality of it was that the penalty far outweighed the offense and the offense was never really proven to have occurred.

    If RG uses the same exaggerated penalty schedule to the Boys I wonder if JJ will still be as adamant obout what a good job he is doing?

  27. 12brichandfamous says:
    Jul 28, 2016 10:06 AM

    It’s obviously so important to us in drafting guys with the right character but sometimes things happen that are unforeseen,” Cowboys COO Stephen Jones said

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You, sir, have a future in the Clinton administration
    _________________

    I’d say such an unaware and buffoonish statement illustrates a strong attribute prevalent in the Trump camp.

  28. The “beloved, high-class organization” that is the Steelers were the first wave of cheaters back in the ’70’s with Steve Courson, et al. Now we’re seeing chronic, systemic classlessness again. What say you, bandwagoneers? Hint: cue the Browns bashing.

  29. ecarlso8 says:
    Jul 28, 2016 11:00 AM
    Take draft picks not money
    ——————————————————-
    Exactly. That’s how you get your message across to these teams (whatever the message really is). 250k is chump change.

  30. So the Patriots filmed from the wrong location and ignored a Memo. They also were exonerated by the Wells report and the NFL layers admitted to a Federal judge they had no proof of cheating by Brady or the Patriots in “FRAMEGATE”. A total of 2.5 MILLION in fines, a loss of a 1st and 4th pick and a 4 game suspension to the best player in the league….And you morons say the Pats were under punished…PLAY FAIR HEIR GOODELL!

  31. The Cowboys and the Steelers are the Urban Meyer, Baylor, and SEC of the NFL. They cheat, lie, and will sign any criminal or drug addict as long as they can play football.

  32. “Right now, I totally get that it may not look like it in terms of the mishaps we’ve had here, but it’s certainly very important to us and something we’ll continue to evaluate and try to be better.”

    He’s right, it doesn’t look like it.

  33. I can see penalizing a team for on field issues.
    But how do you justify fining a team because two players took drugs?
    What control does the team have? “If you take drugs you will be suspended”.
    That would work for me, and any rational person making a lot of money (or not). But it doesn’t work for everyone.

    It sounds like someone is suggesting that if players have even a hint of problems, they shouldn’t be allowed to play, just in case there is a possibility they will do something bad.
    Thats just plain unfair.

  34. nflrulebook says:
    Jul 28, 2016 10:15 AM
    Patriots got fined $1 million, lost 1st and 4th round pick just for a text message from Dorito Dink. Don’t feel bad for the Steelers and cheating Mike at all.

    ****

    To be fair, that punishment was for the long track record of cheating, not just a text message, or taking balls to the bathroom, or smashing cell phones, or….. well, you get my point.

    +++++

    To actually be fair, why would you fine and punish a specific franchise player for a transgression from a videographer who no longer works for the team?

    Woes for the next patriots player who happens to wear the wrong color socks on game day and is piled with a huge punishment for a completely unrelated minor infraction that happened 12 years ago when he was still in grade school.

  35. “$250k is a major fine??? they fine the Pats that for farting in public!”

    Actually if Belichick were to fart near a player from another team he’d be immediately charged with making a poison gas attack and Goodell and his cronies would try and fabricate criminal charges against him.

  36. Why should a team lost draft picks because one player smoked pot, and other took some drug?

    I think this is racist because quite a few black college football players have smoked pot.
    It might lead teams to avoid drafting blacks and they would justify it as “the risk they commit an offense that gets us penalized”.

    I think it’s better to focus on players like Greg Hardy rather than a pot smoker.

  37. vaughnchef says:
    Jul 28, 2016 10:03 AM
    It’s now wonder they haven’t sniffed the playoffs in many a year with that mindset.
    ===============

    Except they were in the playoffs a year ago in 2014. Any other nuggets of wisdom?

  38. chuckshontaspads says:
    Jul 28, 2016 11:08 AM
    So the Patriots filmed from the wrong location and ignored a Memo. They also were exonerated by the Wells report and the NFL layers admitted to a Federal judge they had no proof of cheating by Brady or the Patriots in “FRAMEGATE”. A total of 2.5 MILLION in fines, a loss of a 1st and 4th pick and a 4 game suspension to the best player in the league….And you morons say the Pats were under punished…PLAY FAIR HEIR GOODELL!
    ================
    You’re wrong. They were docked a 1st rounder for spygate plus the 1st and 4th and the fines for……nothing.

  39. mcwest1 says:
    Jul 28, 2016 10:25 AM
    The NFL allows players with red flags to participate in the combine, and allows them to enter the draft. Thus telling teams it’s okay to draft them and have them on their team. Then turn around and want to make the team pay financially and with draft picks for taking a chance on a player the NFL, through their actions, deemed as someone they want representing the NFL.

    How about the NFL not allow a player to participate in the combine, and not allow them to enter the draft if there are red flags. If a player with red flags wants in the NFL, they’ll have to enter as an UDFA and be paid as such. If a player presents with no red flags for a minimum of 2 years before entering the draft, then he should be allowed to participate in the combine and enter the draft.

    In the event a player tests positive for a banned substance just before the combine, he should be immediately dismissed and taken off the draft eligible list.

    _________________

    Because they would get sued, and lose, the first time that they try to ban someone. You can’t ban someone that’s never been convicted of anything, and you can’t deny employment for a past failed drug test

    There are federal laws against that

  40. lifetimefan says:
    Jul 28, 2016 11:00 AM
    To be fair, that punishment was for the long track record of cheating, not just a text message, or taking balls to the bathroom, or smashing cell phones, or….. well, you get my point.

    Really, if that is the standard reason for assessing stricter penalties than should be applied for an offense then I guess all of the teams in the NFL should be held to that greater standard. Lets see The Broncos for cap issues. The Cowboys for cap issues and personal behavior issues etc… the list will get quite long. The real reason the Pats were so severely penalized was because of the fact that they have been so good for so long people just dislike them. You can blame BB and his dry personality, you can blame whatever you want but the reality of it was that the penalty far outweighed the offense and the offense was never really proven to have occurred.

    If RG uses the same exaggerated penalty schedule to the Boys I wonder if JJ will still be as adamant obout what a good job he is doing?

    ______________

    First, “never really proven to have occurred” could not possibly be more irrelevant. This is not a criminal court, and nobody was ever in danger of going to jail. There is no requirement for the NFL to prove in Patriots fans minds that it happened in order for a penalty. The NFL went by, whether you agree with them or not, the rules laid out in the CBA that the NFLPA signed.

    Second, they were “severely” punished, because they are serial offenders. It’s the same as any punishment anywhere. If you get caught, you get penalized. If you get caught again, you are penalized more severely.

    The “woe is us” attitude of Pats fans (and the people that run this site) is ridiculous. You got caught cheating, you got penalized. You got caught cheating again, you got penalized again. Doesn’t matter if other cheated too, you got caught, they didn’t. If you are half as good as you seem to think you are, why do you need to keep, at the very least, skirting rules?

  41. @sumkat

    Banning a player from participating in the combine is not denying them employment. Eliminating them from the draft and making them enter the NFL through UDFA isn’t denying them employment.

  42. @sumkat

    Not every draft eligible player is invited to the combine. Maybe I used a poor choice of words. Instead of banning a player from the combine, just don’t invite them to participate.

  43. Don’t worry Steeler fans, Rooney will make a couple of calls to Goodell, and all this will go away.

    We saw multiple infringements from Steeler players or coaches last season, and all these ‘incidents’ went un-fined, un-suspended; had their fines waved-off, or the league office made a few rule changes to excuse them.

    Honestly, honestly, Steeler fans; you have absolutely nothing to worry about here; and LaVeon has already told us he wont be missing any games, so its all good…….

  44. Sumkat…according to Goodell and ESPN the Patriots were caught cheating…The ultimate serial liar and his cronies said they cheated…Again, they ignored a Memo-a Memo, not a rule and were fined 1 million and a first round pick. Then mother Nature took over in January 2015 and lost another million and 1st and 4th plus suspension…You believe in Goodell when it comes to the Patriots then you hate him for everything else…By the way where is that big follow up at ESPN regarding their serial cheating…No piece because there is no proof of any of it . Goodell is a vindictive megalomaniac and a tool of a few chosen owners….Biscotti, Johnson, Mara and Jones.

  45. sumkat says: If you get caught, you get penalized. If you get caught again, you are penalized more severely………
    ===============================
    …… with one important exception; if you play in yellow & black; you don’t get penalized for multiple infringements at all.

    We’ve seen multiple repeat infractions by Steeler coaches who have interfered with play and affected game results, without any reproach from the league office.

    Steelers get a free pass it seems, no matter how many times they ‘bend then rules’……

  46. chuckshontaspads says:

    Goodell is a vindictive megalomaniac and a tool of a few chosen owners….Biscotti, Johnson, Mara and Jones.

    ————————-

    Are you talking about Jerry Jones, the owner of a team that was fined $10M for exceeding a salary cap that didn’t exist? Yeah, plenty of favoritism there.

  47. paulieorkid says:
    Jul 28, 2016 10:56 AM
    You love your Steelers that I can see.

    I hear what you are saying. But must disagree.

    The Steelers have had only 2 losing seasons since the free agent era,(1993).

    They have had 20 winning seasons. But more wins than losses isn’t why you play the game my young man. It is to get to and win the super bowl.

    I took the year, (1986) to show that as a kick off point of the Steeler’s long run of years with few super bowls . i.e. 4 appearances in 29 years or an average of 1 every 7 .25 years

    The real point is how have they done since the era of free agency.

    Now see if this is better,

    Since the era of Free agency the Steelers have had 22 seasons of football.

    They have been to 4 super bowls and won 2. An Average of 1 appearance every 5 .5 years.

    With two head coaches. You ok with this paulieokid?

    Now in comparison since 1993 the following teams have been to the super bowl 2 or more times

    Dallas: 3 times -3 wins (none since 1996). Avg of 1 every 7 years

    New England: 7 times -Won 4 (Last one 2015 ) Avg of 1 every 3 years

    Pittsburg: 4 times – 2 wins (last one 2011) Avg of 1 every 5.25 years

    Green bay: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2011) Avg of 1 every 7 years

    Denver: 4 times – 3 wins ( last one 2016) Avg of 1 every 5.25 years

    Seattle: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2015) Avg of 1 every 7 years

    St Louis: 2 times – 1 win ( last one 2002) Avg of 1 every 10.5 years

    Carolina: 2 times – 0 wins ( last one 2016) Avg of 1 every 10.5 years

    New York G: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2012) Avg of 1 every 7 years

    So I think you can see where I was heading………Win loss & in the playoffs
    Coach Tomlin: .545
    Coach Belichick: .697
    Coach Carrol: .600
    Coach McCarthy: .533
    Coach Coughlin: .632

  48. Always ironic when a Denver fan mentions cheating. They must have either VERY short memories or selective ones.

    On September 17, 2004, the league announced that, for the second time in three years, the Denver Broncos were fined nearly a million dollars and would, once again, lose their third-round draft pick because of salary cap violations between 1996 and 1998.

    Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis contended that the Broncos’ circumvention of the salary cap helped them win the Super Bowl in the 1997 and 1998 seasons.
    Lets not forget the defensive player whose cheating the urine testing protocol caused it to be rewritten, thereby increasing his 4 game suspension to 6 from 4.
    Now that is a history of cheating!!!

  49. Goodell remains the worst commissioner in history. How can you fine a team for what a guy does on his off time? What Ray Lewis did was 100000 x worse and he has statue. The Patriots have been caught trying to cheat as a team twice now. Weed is not an issue in the world any longer, but the NFL acts likes its worse than murder, beating a woman or other violence. GET A CLUE ROGER!

  50. Did a Ravens fan actually say Tomlin sets a bad example?
    Look at your coach, all he does is cry like a little girl…..
    “Waaaah the Steelers grass field is hard to run on, make them fix it!”
    “Waaaah the Steelers get more primetime games than the Ravens.”
    “Waaaah Tom Brady made fun of my ignorance of the rules”

  51. rideforjesus,
    The Steelers won a playoff game last year in the wildcard round. Your average is inaccurate.

  52. Let’s whine and moan about other teams instead of making intelligent comments about the teams who are actually listed in the article. Because that’s what five year olds do.

  53. rideforjesus says:
    Jul 28, 2016 1:27 PM

    Seattle: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2015) Avg of 1 every 7 years
    ____________________________________-
    * Seattle 3 trips, 1 win, over 10 years = 1 appearence average every 3.33 years?

  54. @ rideforjesus who on Jul 28, 2016 1:27 PM said:

    “The Steelers have had only 2 losing seasons since the free agent era,(1993).”

    ===> Your point is factually irrelevant to your prior premise, but since it’s demonstrably inaccurate, I’ll point it out. The Steelers have had 3 losing seasons since ’93: ’98 (7-9), ’99 (6-10), ’03 (6-10). All under Cowher; none under Tomlin.

    “They have had 20 winning seasons. But more wins than losses isn’t why you play the game my young man. It is to get to and win the super bowl. I took the year, (1986) to show that as a kick off point of the Steeler’s long run of years with few super bowls . i.e. 4 appearances in 29 years or an average of 1 every 7 .25 years.”

    ===> You actually selected 1993 and 1980 initially. Now you’re raising 1986. What is wrong with you? Secondly, even assuming your newfound “reasoning” – a team appearing in 4 Super Bowls in 29 years (winning 2 of them) is far above average. Why are you attempting to ridicule it as an obvious failure? Are you familiar with basic stat analysis and a bell curve distribution?

    “The real point is how have they done since the era of free agency. Now see if this is better. Since the era of Free agency the Steelers have had 22 seasons of football. They have been to 4 super bowls and won 2. An Average of 1 appearance every 5 .5 years. With two head coaches. You ok with this paulieorkid?”

    ===> Yes. But I’m also greedy (and spoiled), and want more.

    “Now in comparison since 1993 the following teams have been to the super bowl 2 or more times

    Dallas: 3 times -3 wins (none since 1996). Avg of 1 every 7 years

    New England: 7 times -Won 4 (Last one 2015 ) Avg of 1 every 3 years

    Pittsburg: 4 times – 2 wins (last one 2011) Avg of 1 every 5.25 years

    Green bay: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2011) Avg of 1 every 7 years

    Denver: 4 times – 3 wins ( last one 2016) Avg of 1 every 5.25 years

    Seattle: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2015) Avg of 1 every 7 years

    St Louis: 2 times – 1 win ( last one 2002) Avg of 1 every 10.5 years

    Carolina: 2 times – 0 wins ( last one 2016) Avg of 1 every 10.5 years

    New York G: 3 times – 2 wins ( last one 2012) Avg of 1 every 7 years”

    ===> So in a 32 team league, you “cherry pick” (again) the best other 8 teams over the cherry-picked span – and of them all, I would clearly take the Steelers results over all of them – other than possibly New England.

    And to my point that is pretty much universally recognized by planet Earth (aside from you), the Steelers have (to date) managed to sustain (generally) high level play throughout the Free Agency era.

    To further my point, I cite the Cowboys – the one team you equated with the Steelers as emblematic of Free Agency futility. By STARK contrast, the Cowboys have won TWO Super Bowls since the Free Agency era kicked in (not three as you (mis)represent): ’93 and ’96. ’92 was PRE-Free Agency era. In fact, Free Agency is what dismantled that dominant team.

  55. paulieorkid says:
    Jul 28, 2016 3:40 PM

    I took the 1993 to present super bowl winners anyone with 2 or more appearances in the big game were considered…one offs.. like Oakland were not factored in.

    The cowboys were counted in because 93 was the year they won, 92 was the season. So if you want I will take out the cowboys and now they are 1 less than the Steelers in appearances…

    The Bengals have also managed to have a high level play throughout the Free Agency era…. with nothing to show for it….wining is great… making the playoffs is better… but losing in the playoffs sucks…..

    15 out of 22 years they made the playoffs that is great..but making it all the way through to only win 2 well that isn’t so great

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