Joe Montana: I can’t call Tom Brady, or anyone, the best ever

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Tom Brady’s childhood idol is one of the few people who isn’t ready to proclaim Brady the best ever.

Hall of Fame 49ers quarterback Joe Montana, whom Brady has called his favorite player of all time, said he can’t declare Brady the best ever because he doesn’t think players from different eras can be properly compared.

“I think that it’s really hard to put anyone in that bucket,” Montana told the Hallmark Channel. “Even before he got five — you look back to some of the guys some people don’t even know, Sammy Baugh or Otto Graham, I can’t remember which one but one of them won like seven or nine championships and so far ahead of their time. It’s so hard to compare guys from then to now, how they would compare here and how we would compare back then.”

For the record, Graham is the quarterback who won seven championships, four with the Browns in the All-America Football Conference and then three more after the AAFC folded and the Browns moved to the NFL. Baugh was a two-time NFL champion and perhaps the greatest example of a player who simply can’t be compared to today’s quarterbacks: Baugh was not only a quarterback who led the NFL in passing yards four times, but also a punter who led the NFL in punting average five times and a defensive back who led the NFL in interceptions once.

Asked if he could call himself the best ever, Montana demurred.

“I still can’t say that of myself because of just what I said,” Montana said.

At that point in the interview, Montana’s wife interjected that Montana does call himself the greatest when they’re alone at home. Perhaps Montana is just putting on a modest face by declining to answer the question.

385 responses to “Joe Montana: I can’t call Tom Brady, or anyone, the best ever

  1. Montana has never been accused of being modest. He knows that Brady is the GOAT, but he doesnt want to admit it. Which is fine, he is a competitor, like they all are. Unfortunately, for him, everyone saw what Brady did Sunday night

  2. Soon to follow for sure 150 posts by the Pat’s frat boys calling Montana a heretic. What he said is very intelligent and spot on but not something the wet behind the ears New England crowd would buy. It’s Tammy or nobody……amusing.

  3. He’s right, to a point. I’m pretty sure that either he or Brady could have played the position in the early days of pro football but the same can’t really be said vice versa. That said, it’s perfectly reasonable to compare Montana and Brady.

  4. “At that point in the interview, Montana’s wife interjected that Montana does call himself the greatest when they’re alone at home.”

    __________

    lol, narcissistic pillow talk

  5. I’m comfortable enough in my opinions that I can respect other peoples POV. Especially comfortable listing to the opinions from a guy that is actually in the conversation.

    I think Tom Brady is god in cleats but I would never expect that everyone else on the planet would or should share that same opinion. In fact I look forward to WELL THOUGHT OUT different points of view.

  6. This is what I’ve always said, comparing a player from one era to another is futile because of the way the game evolves.

    There will come a time when someone wins 6 Super Bowls and shatter Brady’s record but will NEVER take away the fact that he was the greatest of his generation.

  7. Montana does have a valid point (not taking into account the last paragraph). Its always going to be difficult to compare guys who, in essence, played not only in totally different eras but also totally different games. Graham and Baugh (and Montana as well) were not protected like the modern qb’s are. If defensive players could do now what they used to be allowed to do I KNOW that the stats of many of today’s great qb’s wouldnt be close to what they currently are.

  8. Embarrassing for Joe. Whether you are a Patriots fan or hater, there is no denying Brady is the best ever. Period.

  9. There is so much more competition these days AND we are so much better off economically. Not too many stories of kids having to quit football to get a job at the factory. Most of the best athletes in the country are playing the game.

    I think the best of this generation are likely the best ever because they have a better opportunity to be better. Counting championships is a tough way to do it, though. Did Peyton have Belichick? Did Marino have Jerry Rice?

    That being said, Montana is on to something. Let’s get rid of GOAT, because that’s difficult. Best of his generation is enough of an honor.

  10. Montana never lost a Super Bowl, but he was one-and-done and awful in THREE CONSECUTIVE postseasons, ’85, ’86 and ’87. The myth about Montana is that he was a flawless performer in the clutch. Truth is that no one is perfect.

  11. Tom Brady is clearly the GOAT. I bet that hurts Montana’s ego. Too bad, so sad. Suck it up buttercup.
    Just say it…Tom Brady is the Greatest Of All Time. Now that feels good, doesn’t it?!

  12. Ahem..

    Don’t make a fool of yourself, Joe.

    Baugh? I mean, we get it, he was the best passer when the forward pass became more part of the game, but come on.

    Graham was a fantastic winner, but the league had like 8 teams in it, with no cap or free agency.

    Plus, he had Marion Motley, Jim Brown and Leroy Kelly in the backfield behind him.

    I mean….Please.

    1. Brady
    2. Montana
    3. Graham
    4. Unitas
    5. Marino (best pure passer I ever saw as a Pats fan of 35 years)

    I think you need to consider the eras, respect the eras, winning is certainly important, since the QB is the most important position in sports, but it’s pretty easy to come up with a top 5 list and who the #1 QB is now.

    No debate left.

    If there was no cap and no cheating commissioner against the Pats, they’d never lose.

  13. Before SB 51: “Montana, you are the best”
    Montana: *crickets*

    After SB 51: Brady weins 5th ring passing Montana
    Montana: “You know it is hard to call anyone the best”

    Coincidence??

    ….yeah right….take a back seat Joe.

  14. Salty Joe! – well, it certainly can’t be mega-cheat Montana with siliconed jerseys, sticky Rice and headsetgate, not to mention PEDs which were league-common back then. Then of course he played before salary cap and FA. Bottom line is Brady over 16yrs is much greater than Montana was over that best 8-year spell.

  15. I think Joe is right. You take Joe, John Elway, and other past greats and place them in today’s NFL, where the QB and receivers are better protected than ever. How many more Super Bowls would they have won, how much better would there stats be?

    It’s a question that can’t be answered. I think Tom Brady is the best QB of this era, and Joe was in his playing time. Will it be awhile before anyone matches what Tom has done, I would imagine so, but maybe not. The NFL keeps pushing for offensive safe football. High scores = more viewers. Me personally I miss the days of defensive struggles where two opposing defenses just ate each other’s offense. That didn’t make for what the NFL called “good TV football”.

    Rant off and my point is if the NFL keeps going the way it’s going Tom Brady may not be the greatest of “all time” for very long. Which btw I think would tickle Goodell pink.

  16. Lol! Funny Tom has never hesitated to say people were better than him, even though it’s clearly not true. Someone is getting VERY insecure about their legacy…..but it isn’t TB12!!!!

  17. “Soon to follow for sure 150 posts by the Pat’s frat boys calling Montana a heretic. ”

    Kind of like Steelers frat boys talking about 6 Rings*?

  18. As a Pats fan whose been watching the NFL for over 50 years I have to agree.

    Playing in a 32 team league with the cap is much different than playing in 10, 12 or 16 team leagues without the cap and when defenders had some much more latitude.

    I used to love watching the great Steelers teams with the Steel Curtain defense play. If you put that defense on the field now they’d draw a flag every play. There was a reason completion percentages were far lower back then.

    By the same token we have no idea how well some of those old timers would be able to assimilate and adapt to the modern game which is faster, with far more rigorous physical conditioning and strength, and far more complicated.

    I for one am happy to see Brady as the best of the modern game and cap era. I really don’t care about the best of all time thing.

    Declaring him so doesn’t take away from Montana’s greatness or anyone else’s. Montana was an equally unique player.

  19. He’s right. The position and sport now coddles the QB position and is slanted to favor offenses. It’s a different game…QBs and receivers used to be treated as football players, you know, that could be hit and tackled.

  20. How has Brady fared against competent coaching and a tough pass rush in past games? Don’t allow your recency bias to cloak the truth, there is no greatest of all time. Times have changed and thus the game has changed. Brady is great, just not the greatest, not even close.

  21. The protections afforded the QB and the penalties assessed in the secondary for hand-to-hand combat make the game so different for quarterbacks.

    The one thing that Montana had Brady share is that when the NY Giants hit them in the mouth during a playoff game, it did not go well for either.

  22. Agreed Joe,
    You cant compare Brady’s dink and dunk with max protection game to what QB’s did in the old days when they had it much tougher.

    Plus, you must considers the cheating scandals…

  23. Here are Joe’s and Montana supporters’ arguments: HE’S JOE MONTANA. Secondly, the Patriots have faced sub-par SB competition most of the time. (Actually, twice, and they lost both of those games.)

    Jim Burt and Leonard Marshall fixed his wagon. Was he one-and-done three times in a row? Hmm. I liked Joe, but anyone who saw Sunday’s game, and doesn’t think on fortitude alone TB is the greatest, that person is chock full of it. In four of the five wins, fourth quarter AND and overtime drives to win it outright or keep it alive when televisions were being switched off or altered to something like Heidi. SB36 McLeon (Rams) before the final drive: ‘Tom Brady: he’s over-rated.’

    I pity the deniers. Their posting privileges should be rescinded.

  24. Yeah even though he has a point, He never said this before Brady did what he did. Now that he isn’t considered the greatest, he wants to make sure no one else is considered so.

  25. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:28 AM
    Soon to follow for sure 150 posts by the Pat’s frat boys calling Montana a heretic. What he said is very intelligent and spot on but not something the wet behind the ears New England crowd would buy. It’s Tammy or nobody……amusing.

    —–

    perhaps, but you had to drool in your own post first, right?

    lol, you’re no better than the ones you complain about.

    Do I think Brady is better than Montana? I can say yes, but the rosy glasses of history will always leave me a soft spot for Montana. That’s just how it works when you grow up watching/hearing about them rather than be an adult watching them. I suspect once Brady retires and ten years after that I’ll feel the same way about him. Or maybe the stories I tell my kids if I ever have any will make them feel the same way about Brady I feel about Montana.

    And in the end, he’s right. It’s a different game. Easier on the QB as a player, impossible to keep the same players in free agency and salary cap. Not to mention the athleticism and sports science of today’s players vs. earlier decades.

  26. Tommy is being hyped by the NFL ,Madison Ave and every media outlet as the greatest of all time simply to cash $$$$$$$$$

  27. Brady surpassed Joe years ago. It’s not really even close anymore.

    Even the biggest Montana supporter doesn’t have a leg to stand on now. What argument is even left?

    And please spare me the “Montana is 4-0 in Super Bowls”. Montana getting bounced early in the playoffs (including several 1 and dones and home losses) doesn’t count as a strike against Brady.

  28. I am on record regarding my man crush on Otto Graham. That said, Brady has pulled away. He has achieved every possible outcome in his era, including most Super Bowl wins, Super Bowl MVPs, and all the post season records. Although overshadowed by Butler, Brady’s comeback in 2014 against the league’s top defense (which had hung 43-8 on Peyton the year before) was already the difference. This year was just the icing. What more could he even do at this point? It is over.

  29. If Tommy would have played during Joes era Tommy may not have even cracked the Top 5 at that time

  30. If he’s being sincere, he has a valid point. Brady is certainly the greatest this century, but I hate dismissing some of the legends of the past such as Graham, Unitas, etc. The rules were certainly different also, so matching stats is pretty much useless. Let’s just enjoy watching Brady play without having to categorize his or anyone else’s place in history. At the same time let’s recognize that these older legends help build the NFL into the great game that it is.

  31. faithful49er707 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:33 AM
    Joes’s the NFL’s GOAT at the QB position, Jerry Rice was the GOAT at WR and Al Bundy was the GOAT to come out of Polk High

    ————————————————————–

    You got the faithful 49er part on lock bud. Last i checked Moss could catch without stickum on his gloves.

  32. hehateme2 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:40 AM

    Agreed Joe,
    You cant compare Brady’s dink and dunk with max protection game to what QB’s did in the old days when they had it much tougher.

    Plus, you must considers the cheating scandals…
    —————————–
    Brady is not a “dink and dunk” QB, that’s ignorant.

    I’ll give it to you that QB’s got beat up more back then.

    But you also have to consider how much bigger, faster and stronger defenses are today.

    The biggest point your missing is that Brady is doing in the FA era with a completely different core each time. He doesn’t have a cast of HOF players in place for his entire run.

  33. You can’t compare across eras because if you did, all the old-time quarterbacks would not even be in the conversation anymore. There are several quarterbacks who played in this century who are better than any of the ones who played earlier. We tend to have these nostalgia colored glasses that skew the past and make it seem better than it was. It wasn’t. Really.

  34. You’re right, Joe.

    In a tougher, faster, more competitive league today with more emphasis on parity and it being nearly impossible to install the kind of dynasty the 49ers had… Brady really has no equal.

    Brady has held it down longer, and better than Montana in a tougher league. The argument is over.

  35. I mean….Please.

    1. Brady
    2. Montana
    3. Graham
    4. Unitas
    5. Marino (best pure passer I ever saw as a Pats fan of 35 years)

    ————————————————————-
    And none of the other 4 were caught cheating…..#Onlychowdsgiveadamn….

  36. He’s right fan-boys. GOAT is for tennis, boxing, speed skating, track and field and your batman versus superman discussions.

    Its stupid in a team sport, especially one where the rules have change so dramatically.

  37. There are 4 things I know for a certainty as this debate goes;

    Tom Brady has the most Super Bowls in his trophy case

    Joe Montana was the best big game QB I’ve ever seen

    John Elway willed teams to win in situations no other QB could

    Aaron Rodgers is the most physically gifted QB I’ve ever seen

  38. Brady is the best of the modern era, how’s that? I mean I cant really speak on anyone who played when there were like 8 teams. Joe is my hero followed by Young and then Warren Moon but it is what it is man. Lol, let it be.

  39. 1. QB’s used to call their own plays.

    2. They used to have to be one of the toughest on the field.

    3. DB’s are spectators now. DL can breathe on the QB.

  40. i totally disagree, the game has evolved a lot. this evolution made the game a lot more physically demanding and a 100 times more mental, players need to know so much more information today and still be in top physical condition.

    take a guy from those eras and put him in todays NFL he would be lost in the playbook and play calling and wouldnt physically even make a teams roster

    take a guy from today and put him in that era and he would be in the best shape of the entire league and would know the entire playbook inside out within a day.

    the game is certainly a lot different today, but its no question that difference is that its wack loads harder

    will give props to the guys of that era as the only thing they have on today’s players is they were tough SOB’s

  41. He’s right of course. Incomparable.

    It’s a bar stool type of conversation. Bar stool conversations are worthless by definition, imo.

    But we CAN say Brady is better than HGH head Peyton Manning. That much is unequivocal
    again imo, which makes it my bar stool conversation, which is again, worthless.

    And the “cheating scandals”? You mean the completely debunked nonsensical scandals?

  42. elitekane says:

    Yeah even though he has a point, He never said this before Brady did what he did. Now that he isn’t considered the greatest, he wants to make sure no one else is considered so.
    —————–

    COMPLETE BS. He has always said the same thing about not being able to compare different eras. It was even brought up during ESPN Pardon The Interruption segment when he was asked between Brady and Manning being GOAT about five years ago and he gave the same exact answer that there was no anwer.

  43. FoozieGrooler says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:53 AM
    At least Brady and the Patriots do lead Montana and the 49’ers in one key area.
    Fines and sanctions for cheating.
    Patriots 2 – 49’ers 0

    Yeah you may want to check that

    It’s called google

  44. Aww, Joe is jealous of Brady, thinking he was going to his grave known as the greatest.

    The guy has been dead quiet for 20 years and now he’s all vocal about it.

    Hilarious.

    Sort of disrespectful towards Brady to pretend Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh played the position better.

    Otto Graham, as great as he was, would be dismantled in today’s game as slow footed as he was.

    Same with Unitas.

  45. Fair enough. Could a 6’4″ 225# guy survive in the ’60s? Probably not.

    If you measure by pure success then yes, Brady is the most successful QB of all time. That is indisputable – even for a hair-splitter like Montana.

  46. Unless all in the list of best of all time played against each other, I have to agree with Joe. However, it is clear that Colon Krapperneck is no where in the list or ever will be!

  47. It’s not about who is the greatest.
    Joe just didn’t have the good graces to be humble in this moment. Without the 11 pro bowlers and a great coach Montana would be a different story.
    Brady ALWAYS puts team first. Class act.

  48. I mean, that’s not out of line to say. I’m as big of a Brady guy as there is, and I think he’s the best that I’ve seen, Montana included…but what’s the correct measurable? Brady just wins, and that’s huge, but also a product of coaching and a good surrounding team. A guy like Marino…dude could just chuck it, straight up, what an arm. Elway, great QB. Warren Moon spun the tightest balls you’ve ever seen, and Brett Favre slung balls into tighter spots than anyone. Peyton had an arm with a brain to match. Aaron Rodgers just makes ABSURD throws, and is mobile enough to buy time to make and complete more than others. But I never saw Bart Starr or Otto Graham’s careers, so I can’t speak on them. Same for Staubach. Add in what Montana is saying about eras, and how the salary cap and free agency affects the argument, and that’s just way too many variables to get any type of solid answer. Brady is my guy, and I stand by that, but I can’t rationally say that there can’t be any debate or there’s one right answer. We’re lucky to watch any of these guys, and I try to just appreciate that.

  49. It’s true…it’s difficult to compare players from different eras but Joe is basically in the same era. Now players like Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham are from different era’s and is hard to compare for a multitude of reasons, that group with this one. I am a Montana fan and always have been, but also a Brady fan, but still both great QB’s but if we have to have a list we could simply say what is the current power rankings for QB’s in the modern era and if we are being honest for argument sake I would have to put Brady No.1 and Montana No. 2. It will certainly change as the years go by and if Brady wins number 6, it becomes hard to keep deferring to Montana as someone that should share the No.1 power ranking. Finally let us say they were the greatest of their playing days but if you force me to choose, after watching last Sunday’s Super Bowl for now I have to go with Brady after coming back from sure defeat behind 25 points, and winning number 5 and I love Joe Montana and think he’s one of the greatest that ever played.

  50. adding to my post above, as for the number of championships debate. prior to the superbowl era there were two winners each year as there were two leagues. this meant when you won a championship you werent even the best in the world you were just the best in your league. the superbowl era started and then every championship meant you were the best in the world. two championships every year also meant more opportunity to get one with less competition

  51. hey people, last time I checked, 4-0 is 4 games above .500 and 5-2 is 3 games above .500. same for Bradshaw

    and if Marcia played when Bradshaw played, he would have been out of the sport after the first huge hit

    Joe also never had illegally taped signals called into his headset

    Joe never communicated with equipment guys

  52. Otto Graham put up championships when alternate league (AAFC) only had eight teams and players drove truck and sold insurance in the off-season. Montana is doing some fancy footwork around the question of best quarterback in the Super Bowl era. It’s not a discussion he really wants to get into, but I’ll answer it for him. It’s Tom Brady and the final chapter hasn’t even been written yet.

  53. “Brady is a great QB, there is no question. But the fact remains that the Pats win with or without him.”

    LOL, win what? Talk to me when they win a Super Bowl without Brady.

  54. otto graham. GOAT.

    #pft boston’s tears are scrumtrulescent

    btw, this goat thing is really, really worn out.

  55. I am more comfortable with factual statements than superlatives.

    player X won Z# games…
    player Y achieved a, b, c…

    and it’s not like boxing.
    Montana never fought Brady.

    they played against different defenses with different controlling variables. (use of stickum by receivers Rice, and others, use of performance enhancing drugs, use of steroids, ability to buy as many players as you could afford)

  56. At least Brady and the Patriots do lead Montana and the 49’ers in one key area.
    Fines and sanctions for cheating.
    Patriots 2 – 49’ers 0

    —————

    Wrong.

    1. Crisco on OL jerseys.
    2. Stick Um for Jerry Rice.
    3. Salary cap.

    49ers 3, Pats 0*

    *Goodell caught twice concocting phony scandals against the Pats, with one of them debunked and proven in a federal court in August 2015.

    The other one (Spygate) debunked and proven by BB getting support from Bud Grant, Chuck Knox, Parcells, J. Johnson and BIll Cowher, all of whom exposed Goodell (and Dungy) as a liar.

  57. I think QB’s from most any era can read defenses and throw the ball well. What’s really changed is what defenders are allowed to do now versus then.

    Back in the day QB’s got hit unmercifully after releasing the ball. Corners could grab, hold and hit receivers pretty much at will. Receivers could push-off and hit back too.

    For me, Brady is better than Montana because of what I’ve witnessed. Best ever!! I’d even rank Elway and Aikman over Montana. But, what do I know?

    Today, Brady is the GOAT!

  58. Walsh used to do a scam where he’d have 20 plays written down and then say his headset went out and force the other team to use hand signals.

    Lying = cheating.

    Rice used stick’um. Cheating.

  59. hey Joe….. Is it safe to say since you left the game, Tom Brady has been the best QB in the game for the last 25 years???

    Or how about you just say in this era…..He is the best to play the position…

    then your safe… no one can bitch… and life moves on…

  60. This man calls himself the GOAT behind closed doors. He had Jerry Rice and Stick Um on his side.

    The debate is over Joe. From this point forward Brady will always be considered the GOAT by the mass majority of people.

  61. Team sport. Best QB of all time? Yes. Best player of all time? There’s no way to judge that. It’s a team sport. Rings require teams, coaches, etc. If Brady won 5 on 5 different teams with different coaches, it would mean more than doing it with the hoodie 5 times, no?

  62. “I am more comfortable with factual statements than superlatives.”

    Except cheating and stuff like that. I bet they don’t count.

  63. There really is no way to measure it because of the different eras. Montana played when defenses could actually hit qb’s, which shorten Montana’s career, especially when he played against the Giants and Bears defenses. Brady hasn’t faced defenses like that except last year against the Broncos and the 2 times he lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl. If defenses could play like the Steelers of the 70’s, it would make things more comparable.

  64. Montana is wrong. Athletes in today’s NFL would crush the NFL of old. I am old enough to remember players from Joe’s era who smoked and drank regularly. Those guys were not nearly as conditioned as today’s players are, not even close. The average NFL player today would easily beat the cleats off Joe and is teammates.

  65. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:28 AM
    It’s Tammy or nobody……amusing.
    ======================

    Amusing is your infantile need to denigrate one of the best of all time by calling him a girl’s name, that and your disappearance for 2 weeks after the AFCCG. It’s nice for us that you are back to entertain us with your misery “ad noseum” though. It’s all the sweeter now, sweet and salty like a good snack.

  66. The difference being, Joe played most of his games at least dazed, if not halfway knocked out. Not the case for Brady. If a defender even touches a quarterback’s or a “defenseless” receiver’s helmet in today’s wussified era of football, the defense is penalized 15 yards and an automatic first down. My little sister could play quarterback in the NFL today, and her stats would look pretty good just on the yardage she’d gain by roughing the passer and defensive pass interference calls. Joe is absolutely right: there is no comparison.

    “Defenseless” wasn’t even a word before Brady came along.

  67. thrifty says:

    Feb 10, 2017 10:45 AM

    The snowflakes pats’ fans are going to have a meltdown. Lol
    ————–
    Nah we’re fine, the glow off of our 5 Lombardi’s shines bright today.

  68. What nonsense 🙂

    Put guys like Baugh and yes even Joe himself in today’s game and not only would they not be successful many of them wouldn’t make the roster.

    The game is way more complicated and the athletes are so much better today than back in that era. There is zero comparison. None of these guys today are playing fat and out of shape,playing drunk or with lungs full of cigarette smoke. Brady and other QBs today would light those teams up like a gas can.

    Hilarious how people romanticize the past eras when they don’t have a clue.

    🙂

  69. I love how you bozos completely missed the humor in what Montana’s wife said.

    It’s just a game. Don’t be so serious all of the time.

  70. “Brady is a great QB, there is no question. But the fact remains that the Pats win with or without him.”

    You sure about that? Playoff appearances without Brady:

    🙂

  71. @elitekane

    Last I checked all Moss did was catch deep passes and sideline get out of bounds passes.

    Both Rice and T.O. caught deep passes
    Sideline passes
    WR screens
    Both went over the middle
    Fades
    Crosses
    Digs. Those guys did everything, even block

    Your boy Moss wasn’t even willing to try and block…..

  72. redlikethepig says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:04 AM
    Bill Belichick is the GOAT. Tom Brady was the QB lucky enough to play for him.
    =======================

    Until the discussion centers on Belichick when the narrative will be he was lucky enough to have Brady. Brady has Belichick, Montana had Walsh, Starr had Lombardi, Graham had Brown. All of them the best of their era.

  73. In 2009, the NFL added a rule to prevent QB’s from being tackled at the knees. It’s actually nicknamed the “Brady Rule” because it was added to address Brady’s torn ACL in the Chiefs playoff game. The NFL didn’t change the rules to protect Montana.

    Taking that into account, Montana would have had a longer career with the same changes to NFL rules to protect QB’s. Imagine Brady going up against Lawrence Taylor with the 1984 definition of “roughing the passer”. Brady would probably not still be playing QB at the age of 39 if the NFL hadn’t changed the rules to protect QB’s from being savagely tackled like running backs.

    You also need to consider the recent rule changes to protect defenseless receivers. Safeties and corners pull up instead of destroying them. You think a smaller receiver like Julian Edelman or Danny Amendola would make it a full 16 games plus 3 playoffs games if a safety dove into them helmet-to-helmet without penalties? Very doubtful.

    Needless to say, I think Joe is right. Brady and Montana came from very different eras. In 2017, the NFL has changed the rules to prevent concussions and promote the passing game to protect its player while also boosting TV ratings.

  74. I’ve had boy been watching since the jezar days, but let me put it in light of what Bill Walsh said. When asked about football rules changes he said you couldn’t pass in the old days like now. ( 1981) no 5 yard rule on WRs means Blount could hold up a war off the line and never let him go. Merlin Olsen said the fearsome foursome would purposely jump offsides just to knock the qb down. Qbs ran for their lives after turn overs and Devon jones slapped silly ol on his way to the qb. To evaluate now and then is really hard. But imo Montana faced Ryan’s 46 defense, the eagles Reggie white and Jerome brown, Dallas doomsday, Giants with LT, Minnesota with milliard and doleman and fangios saints ( mills Jackson etc…) name a qb who won like Montana against the greatest defenses of all time. I think Brady would be broken in two in that area as he would have been physically beaten down. But reasonable people differ.

  75. Of course Montana is right.
    The rules change. The game changes.
    In addition to Graham and Baugh, Bart Starr won 5 World Championships and 90% of his playoff games and is the all-time leader in post season QB rating, even though receivers and QBs got smashed around a lot more then.

    BTW, I have no problem calling Brady the best QB today.

  76. I love how people say Joe is the greatest and Rice is the best ever. Wouldn’t that cancel each other out??? Brady has done this with average Joe receivers, in an area that is built to keep this from happening. When the players are stronger, faster and smarter than ever. With all due repect to all these old time guys, I think they would walk on to a field right now and be confused by what they see in the defense and blown away by how complicated the offense is. Brady is the best hands down.

  77. FoozieGrooler says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:53 AM
    At least Brady and the Patriots do lead Montana and the 49’ers in one key area.
    Fines and sanctions for cheating.
    Patriots 2 – 49’ers 0

    ======================================

    the confidence in which some people debate while being so clued out to the facts are truly hysterical

    assuming you have ignored all the facts, science and basic understanding of the rules lets assume the patriots have cheated twice

    pats under brady cheated = 2 times

    montana’s 49ers

    -Rice took to Twitter to admit after admitting to using stickum, and that it was more than “a little illegal.” He tweeted: “I apologize ppl after doing my research about stickum!,” Rice said. “The NFL banned this in 1981. All players did it!

    – At a June 2015 charity event in Pittsburgh, former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Joe Montana confessed that, in the 80s, his “offensive lineman used to spray silicon on their shirts.” Montana said they continued the practice “until they got caught.”

    -The San Francisco 49ers were notorious during Bill Walsh – Joe Montana era for allegedly faking headset problems to force opposing team to turn theirs off so Montana could run scripted drives against a defense that could no longer get adjustments from coaches. Bill Parcells claims the 49ers twice disabled the Giants’ phones in the mid-’80s.

    -The San Francisco 49ers were quietly accused by other league members of skirting the salary cap during their dominant run from 1981 to 1994.
    Despite the supposed restraints of the $34.6 million salary cap, the 49ers remade their defense and filled gaps on their offensive line to position themselves for a Super Bowl run. The complaints intensified after the signing of cornerback Deion Sanders, who was just one of San Francisco’s eight key free-agent acquisitions, six of whom have been to the Pro Bowl.

  78. If a defender even touches a quarterback’s or a “defenseless” receiver’s helmet in today’s wussified era of football, the defense is penalized 15 yards and an automatic first Down


    That would have some merit… except for the fact that Brady won 2 rings before the Polian rule changes that favored offense and protected QBs.

    Go figure.

    🙂

    #BradyIsGreat
    #BradyWouldBeGreatInAnyEra
    #HeProvedIt
    #GOAT

  79. As a Patriots fan I personally do not need to have everyone and his dog call Brady the greatest ever. Its all but impossible to compare different eras.

    Different people have different views. Fans of Manning will always want him to be called the greatest. At the end of the day it does not matter. You call whoever you want the greatest, it does not change a single thing in the universe!

    One thing I would say, its rare to find a ‘Greatest’ who played on a bad team. People need to remember that when they talk about the subject, without a supporting cast no player, coach or owner would ever be ‘The Greatest’

  80. I think Artvan15 has it right. Just too many variables to cross over from era to era. This is true in any sport, not just football. Can one really compare Babe Ruth’s accomplishments to anyone of today? Not honestly anyway.

    I like Artvan’s sentiment, Montana was the best of his era and Brady the best of his. The rest of it is conjecture, but makes for good discussion.

    By the way, I’ve been a Pats fan and Brady worshiper forever.

  81. After the past three seasons with Brady pounded physically in two super bowls and one championship game there are still the tough guys who refer to Brady as “Marcia” and “Tammy”…really? You ladies could not survive ONE play of NFL football.

  82. edelmanfanclub says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:29 AM
    AFCCG

    Brady: 7-4
    Montana: 4-3

    Bradys been to the same amount of SBs than Montana has AFCCG and has more SB wins. Stop with the 4-0 talk. Brady is better.

    ____________________

    I meant CG in general. Montana had 6 in NFC 1 AFC. (4-3). Brady has 11 (7-4) all AFC. You get thepoint.

  83. Are you serious Bazooka Joe? you won 4 had Jerry Rice and other hall of fame players. Brady won 5 with and one was with a lacrosse player at receiver. That says it all. I’m a Pittsburgh fan so I’m not being a homer.

  84. As a Pats fan, I am thrilled that Brady is at the forefront of the conversation, and I also loved watching Montana growing up and was so jealous because, well, the Pats mostly sucked back then. I’m cool with people having different opinions on this, and expect that many Niners fans will back their guy. That’s what fans are supposed to do.

  85. Brady is the GOAT
    But I have seen Montana play. When you could clobber qbs and wr….think ronnie lott.
    It was as different time and Montana had no equal.

  86. nestrongsafety says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:10 AM
    Montana is wrong. Athletes in today’s NFL would crush the NFL of old. I am old enough to remember players from Joe’s era who smoked and drank regularly. Those guys were not nearly as conditioned as today’s players are, not even close. The average NFL player today would easily beat the cleats off Joe and is teammates.
    __________________

    An empty argument. If those guys were playing now they would be conditioning with today’s methods and if today’s players were playing then they would be having a beer and a butt after the game. It is impossible to fairly compare players from different eras, the context is completely different. Even in the Super Bowl era we have the hard and fast line of pre and post cap and free agency delineating players from before and after ’94.

    The closest we can come in comparing Brady and Montana is looking at the talent each had around them and conjecturing what they might have done with each other’s supporting cast. There can be no doubt Brady would have lit it up with Montana’s guys but it’s hard to imagine what deviltry Belichick might dream up with Montana’s skill set to play with so even that doesn’t give us anything to hang our hats on. All we are left with between them is counting rings and from a comparison standpoint that leaves a bit to be desired.I had the good fortune to watch both throughout their careers and would give the nod to Brady because I think he did more with less but freely accept YMMV.

  87. Della Street says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:28 AM
    You are now irrelevant, Joe. Go away.
    ========================================

    LOL, you’re telling a hall of fame QB and one of the best ever “irrelevant”? In what strange world do you live is that in any way, shape, or form normal or even an intelligent thing to say? If Joe cool is “irrelevant” with his credentials and accomplishments, then how low does that make you are anyone else bashing Montana?

  88. Plenty of stories out there about Montana being a dee eye cee kay when he was a player – especially to Steve Young, so I highly doubt he is simply being modest.

  89. How can anyone use the phrase greatest of all time when the story is still being written. If the NFL shuts down then we a defined timeframe. Until then, all we can say is greatest to date.

  90. rob471773 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:43 AM
    Brady surpassed Joe years ago. It’s not really even close anymore.

    Even the biggest Montana supporter doesn’t have a leg to stand on now. What argument is even left?
    ________________

    Joe was a MUCH better playoff performer. Joe had a 95 passer rating in the playoffs, compared to a relatively pedestrian 89 for Brady. Joe had a 127 rating in Super Bowls, compared to a 95 rating for Brady. Joe threw zero INTs in Super Bowls. Brady threw 5 including a hideous pick six (which was part of the deficit he had to come back from). Brady has already played 16 full seasons while Montana did his damage in only 11 (Montana was injured a lot due to the punishing hits of his era). Give Montana 16 seasons in SF and he would’ve had 5 rings, all the while playing much better than Brady in big games. For good measure, Montana also had the same amount of MVP’s despite playing 80 fewer games.

  91. rob471773 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:43 AM
    Brady surpassed Joe years ago. It’s not really even close anymore.

    Even the biggest Montana supporter doesn’t have a leg to stand on now. What argument is even left?
    ________________

    Joe was a MUCH better playoff performer. Joe had a 95 passer rating in the playoffs, compared to a relatively pedestrian 89 for Brady. Joe had a 127 rating in Super Bowls, compared to a 95 rating for Brady. Joe threw zero INTs in Super Bowls. Brady threw 5 including a hideous pick six (which was part of the deficit he had to come back from). Brady has already played 16 full seasons while Montana did his damage in only 11 (Montana was injured a lot due to the punishing hits of his era). Give Montana 16 seasons in SF and he would’ve had 5 rings, all the while playing much better than Brady in big games. For good measure, Montana also had the same amount of MVP’s despite playing 80 fewer games.

  92. it never gets old reading, and laughing about, the deranged comments from Brady haters! This is a bad time for them, meaning from 2001 to the present !

  93. Joe is right. Different eras. Brady has no doubt performed of the course of his career, but he’s also been protected from the type of punishment Joe had to take. Head shots, knee shots, late hits, guys leading with the crown…..Every time Brady gets breathed on he gets up talking to the refs.

    The simpered truth of the matter is that if Brady had played in Montana’s (not to mention the older guys mentioned) era….his body might not have been in condition to play as long as he has. If Montana played in this era he might have played another five years…..and probably at a high enough level to win the Super Bowl Young won.

    I don’t think there really is such a thing as GOAT in football. A player can dominate his own time period….but as rules change the game changes and the players change with it.

  94. Montana’s the best I ever seen and Brady couldn’t hold his jock. Montana and Bradshaw never lost a superbowl. Without the help of Seattle and Atlanta, Brady could be 3-4 in superbowls besides Manning still owns him.

  95. Whoops..LeRoy Kelly came later. My bad. But, the point stands.

    Graham had an incredible run game to help him along.

    No need to explain it’s well known on here that you are an idiot in addition to being Gomer the Homer……and thanks for the endless dumb comments that always make me laugh…priceless.

  96. Are you serious Bazooka Joe? you won 4 had Jerry Rice and other hall of fame players.
    ===

    Montana won 2 WITHOUT Jerry Rice.

    Ronnie Lott is his only HOF teammate with 4 Rings.

  97. Tom Brady is the greatest modern era quarterback to win multiple championships with an amazing coach and a consistently strong defense.

    Montana was the greatest 80s/90s ero QB to win multiple championships with an amazing coach and a consistently strong defense.

    Marino was the best pure passer this league has seen to date.

  98. I’ve noticed a few things,

    – Steeler fans (the whiny ones here, not the real ones) seem to be the most upset that Brady and NE has been so successful. Wonder why that is?

    – Now that Brady has passed Montana we’re dredging up Graham & Baugh. Why not Twinkletoes Flintone? I hear he was unstoppable.

    -If we’re going back to leather helmet days I guess that means that Montana should never have been considered GOAT either.

    -There must be 2 Joe Montanas- the one I watched at ND, SF & KC and the one that was much better who exists only in the halcyon memories of those who only saw him on old highlight reels.

  99. I’m sure that Joe was a great player in his day but it is time for him to kiss Tom Brady’s rings.
    Tom has acknowledged Montana as his childhood hero who was a good role model who helped to inspire him towards football as a little boy.

  100. Joe Montana make some good points. However I do know that Brady does have one punt that was downed inside the one so it’s possible that Brady is a better directional punter than Sammy Baugh LOL. It is impossible to cross Generations but it is entirely possible that Sammy Baugh never played in front of more people then Tom Brady Sees at a normal Patriots training camp practice. I’m not quite sure the level of athlete across the board in the National Football League pre 19 seventies is anything like today’s animal. Yeah the rules favor the offense but somebody watch the hits that Brady took in the Super Bowl makes makes me wonder of the guys from yesteryear could take that kind of pounding.

  101. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:28 AM
    Soon to follow for sure 150 posts by the Pat’s frat boys calling Montana a heretic. What he said is very intelligent and spot on but not something the wet behind the ears New England crowd would buy. It’s Tammy or nobody……amusing.

    —-
    Not as amusing as 36-17 was!

    🙂

  102. jviva77 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:31 AM
    Are you serious Bazooka Joe? you won 4 had Jerry Rice and other hall of fame players. Brady won 5 with and one was with a lacrosse player at receiver. That says it all. I’m a Pittsburgh fan so I’m not being a homer.

    And his #1WR was originally a QB. And Malcolm Mitchell is a rookie. And one of if not his best weapon, Gronk, didn’t even play!

  103. jviva77 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:31 AM
    Are you serious Bazooka Joe? you won 4 had Jerry Rice and other hall of fame players. Brady won 5 with and one was with a lacrosse player at receiver. That says it all. I’m a Pittsburgh fan so I’m not being a homer.

    And his #1WR was originally a QB. And Malcolm Mitchell is a rookie. And one of if not his best weapon, Gronk, didn’t even play!

  104. In a tougher, faster, more competitive league today with more emphasis on parity..
    ===

    Why do people waste keystrokes on that?

    There is no real parity.

    The same 5 or 6 teams have been at the top since the turn of this century. The Pats clearly ahead of the rest of the pack.

  105. Just because Brady has been to and won more SBs does not make him better, or the best.

    I’m guessing all pats fans think Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Phil Simms were all better than Marino.

  106. The athletes are far superior today. They take care of their bodies year round.

    Athletes in otto graham”s day would never make the practice squad today. 4 of Otto”s championships came in a league with only 8 teams.

    In Montana’s day which was not that long ago. The linemen were no where near the size they are today.

    Montana needs to suck it up and bow to the GOAT.

  107. Also important to remember that the game was in many ways easier in the old days. There were far fewer teams so you didn’t have to game plan against as many different offenses/defenses, and the much shorter seasons meant you didn’t have to win nearly as many games to make the playoffs or win a championship. The great Otto Graham would routinely win his championships after 8-2 or 9-1 season and a one or two game playoff streak. By that metric Tom Brady would have 15 championships.

  108. Actually what stands out to me is that Joe chose now to come out with this. He was at peace back when a lot of people said Brady was goat but there was still room for debate. Being secure in that room for debate kept him satisfied. But now with Brady’s more recent accomplishments there really is no room for debate any more. A lot of people came forth and admitted this shifted their thinking that Brady now had it. It obviously shifted Joes thinking too because the change in his behavior gives that away. Its ok Joe, all things come to pass. In fact so will Brady. He will sooner or later have to experience the same thing Joe is, someone will come along and take this crown. (Cowboys fans are already declaring its Dak but lets just wait and see) Its really the beauty of sports though so lets just enjoy it.

  109. What a stupid argument for everyone to be having. If the best QB ever ends up playing for a crappy team, he won’t be known as the best QB ever because he won’t win games. Are we going to pretend that if Jim Kelly had won the 4 Super Bowls he went to that he would somehow have been as good as Joe Montana or Tom Brady? Is he any less good because Scott Norwood can’t kick and his defense couldn’t stop the Redskins or the Cowboys? Is Tom Brady better because he had Vinatieri for a few Super Bowls? Can we accept that there are a lot of other guys on the field that have to help and therefore we really have no idea who the best QB of all time is? Sure it’s a fun discussion, but completely useless.

  110. The game was just as competitive to win in Montana’s day as it is now, if not harder now. Brady just wins more. He just wins games. Besides holding all the records, and for me that is why he is better. He’s won more, been dominant longer, but people can deny it all they want. Just keeps the motor running for #6, 7, and beyond.

  111. Enough with the MVP argument for Montana. Brady should EASILY have 2 more MVPs. Te 2006 season comes to mind immediately, for example. Reche Caldwell was his #1 WR that year. Case closed.

    It’s MOST VALUABLE, not most stats in a dome against god awful teams like Jacksonville, Tenn or a relocated Houston franchise.

    Brady and Belichick should be winning MVP and Coach of the Year/Exec of the Year awards, ALMOST ANNUALLY, but because people are so disrespectful of their accomplishments and people sick and tired of being forced to compliment them.

    Kids and people born years from now will ask why Brady and BB didn’t get more personal hardware, and that’s the answer, so enough.

    You just saw YET AGAIN why Brady is the real MVP, so eat it.

    Also, I swear the kiddies of today just rattle of rhetoric without ever having seen Montana play, too.

    I swear, Gomer Manning has 2 MVPs in years the Pats won a Super Bowl, specifically because they felt bad for the goober, as Manning padded stats in domes to get those meaningless MVPs, and then would be awful in the postseason.

    Montana also had 3 straight one and dones in 1985, 1986 and 1987 which was Manningesque.

    Brady has done it only twice in a row in 2009 and 2010, right in the middle of NE’s rebuild in the cap era.

    Brady>>Montana.

    Argument was over in 2014.

  112. julyeast says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:01 AM
    hey people, last time I checked, 4-0 is 4 games above .500 and 5-2 is 3 games above .500. same for Bradshaw

    Another genius who thinks it’s better to lose before the Super Bowl.

  113. Put guys like Baugh and yes even Joe himself in today’s game and not only would they not be successful many of them wouldn’t make the roster.

    The game is way more complicated and the athletes are so much better today than back in that era. There is zero comparison.
    ===

    Good lord.

    Imagine what Jim Brown and OJ Simpson could do in this League with the pansies that can’t tackle!

    They’d run for 2000 yards every season!

  114. The thing about comparing eras is not to compare FOR that era but to compare ACROSS eras. Do we think Otto Graham could play QB at a high level in 2017? Maybe…hard to know. Do we think Tom Brady could play QB at a high level in the 1950’s? Almost certainly. When considering this along with comparable championships between Brady and Graham, there is a strong (even if begrudging) case for Brady as the best ever.

  115. I’d love to see Montana in his prime vs. Brady in is prime (which arguably is still now). What a damn game that would be. Someone get working on a time machine please – the NFL would probably fund it for all of that sweet, sweet revenue they’d get for the game.

  116. I’m not quite sure the level of athlete across the board in the National Football League pre 19 seventies is anything like today’s animal.
    ===

    But we also don’t know how the athletes of yester-year would respond to todays weight training regiments (and *COUGH* “supplement” use)

    You can’t tell me guys like Hornung, Herb Adderley, Bob Hayes, Butkus, Bob Lilly ect ect wouldn’t be AS great today as they were in their eras.

    Across the board, sure, the smokers and boozers would probably be out. But there was a MUCH different level of pride and respect for ones self in that era that would have driven many of those players to succeed, IMO.

  117. Merlin Olsen said the fearsome foursome would purposely jump offsides just to knock the qb down. Qbs ran for their lives after turn overs and Devon jones slapped silly ol on his way to the qb.

    Montana played in the 80s, not the 70s. The first rule changes to open up the game happened in the late 70s and led to Fouts, Montana, Marino, Elway, etc., putting up numbers that were not dreamed of when the Fearsome Foursome played. Since then the league has consistently changed rules to favor passers more and more.

    It wasn’t as easy to pass in the ’80s as it is now, but it was a lot easier than it was during the heyday of Merlin Olsen and Deacon Jones.

  118. steelcurtainn says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:43 AM
    Montana’s the best I ever seen and Brady couldn’t hold his jock. Montana and Bradshaw never lost a superbowl. Without the help of Seattle and Atlanta, Brady could be 3-4 in superbowls besides Manning still owns him.

    Or Brady could be 7-0 or 8-0 or 9-0. Sadly we can’t compare Brady to QB’s who weren’t good enough to make it to more than 4 Super Bowls. Sort of like giving the batting title to a guy who went 1 for 1 in his only at bat.

    Montana was the best of his day.Check you calendar, that day was crossed off long ago.

    2 things jump out

    1
    What up w/ these Joe M loving Steeler fans all of a sudden? I like how you all jumped on his wagon once Brady won his 5th. Guess you don’t think your boy Terry (Bradshaw,not Hanratty) was all that good after all.

    2
    Evidently I was wrong last week when I thought the comments here could not get dumber.

  119. Amusing is your infantile need to denigrate one of the best of all time by calling him a girl’s name, that and your disappearance for 2 weeks after the AFCCG. It’s nice for us that you are back to entertain us with your misery “ad noseum” though. It’s all the sweeter now, sweet and salty like a good snack.

    Oh no I offend the delicate feelings of one of the most prolific trolls on here by calling Tommy Tammy…..hike up your diaper and grow a pair Percy…..on numerous occasions I have acknowledged Brady to be the best of the non contact Tammy era of QBs. I also think having watched football for 60 years that Brady would not still be playing under the old rules….he hates getting hit and gets happy feet and soils himself if he gets hit with no flag.

    My disappearance was attributed to my weariness with you kids and and your delusional thoughts of greatness …..and toss in rudeness lack of grace in winning and general frat boy irreverence. Hey I know the best team one….I never saw the Steelers going that far with that D.

  120. sportoficionado says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:37 AM

    How has Brady fared against competent coaching and a tough pass rush in past games? Don’t allow your recency bias to cloak the truth, there is no greatest of all time. Times have changed and thus the game has changed. Brady is great, just not the greatest, not even close.

    ————
    Well, Brady has won far more games that he’s lost, so I’d say overall he fared pretty well against tough pass rushing.

  121. aarons444 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:02 PM
    Put guys like Baugh and yes even Joe himself in today’s game and not only would they not be successful many of them wouldn’t make the roster.

    The game is way more complicated and the athletes are so much better today than back in that era. There is zero comparison.
    ===

    Good lord.

    Imagine what Jim Brown and OJ Simpson could do in this League with the pansies that can’t tackle!

    They’d run for 2000 yards every season!


    In the CFL maybe, but not in the NFL. You’re just being silly. They ran against defenses that averaged under 25olbs. They wouldn’t make it out of the backfield.

  122. suncawy says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:10 AM

    There really is no way to measure it because of the different eras. Montana played when defenses could actually hit qb’s,
    —————————–

    Can people please quit posting this untruth?

  123. Another genius who thinks it’s better to lose before the Super Bowl.
    ===

    The 9ers lost to HOFrs and perhaps the best team ever (Gibbs, Parcells, ’85 Bears)

    Who did Brady lose to? Not a single team that is worth remembering.

    Manning, you say? The same Manning consistently PWNED by the Pats every year.

    The Steelers, you say? NOPE. They never played in the years the Steelers won their Titles or went to the Super Bowl after 2004.

  124. Brady has only won 20 games in his career when his defense ranked in the bottom half of the league.

    P. Manning has won 102 games when his defense ranked in the bottom half.

    Less than 10% of Brady’s wins have come when his defense sucked while 51% of Manning’s wins have come when his defense sucked.

    Brady has the better coach, almost always the better defense, and stats show Brady had the better special teams almost always.

    Manning had better offenses the majority of the time but it takes all 3 phases to win championships and Belichick is clearly the best coach.

    Also Manning’s team lost numerous times in the playoffs late because of defense and special teams. Manning gave his team the lead or tie and defense or ST’s blew it.

    If you want to argue Brady is better because of longevity that is a different argument. Manning was clearly better than Brady over Manning’s career. It’s a 53 man team and Brady clearly had the better 53 man team almost all the time and coach every year.

    Arguments about the best ever are ridiculous because of different rules. If Brady took the punishment that Montana and others he would not be playing at the level he’s playing now.

  125. As a long time Pats fan (I’ve been alive for many more years of losing than winning), I just want to say…

    Brady is great. And so was Montana, Marino, Manning, Fouts, Stabler, Elway, etc.

    It’s a team game and you cannot compare eras.

    If Elway was on Bill Walsh’s team in San Francisco, he would be in this conversation. Elway was accurate, tough and could run. (and Reeves was no Bill Walsh)

    Marino was the 80’s version of Manning. Both those players were unbelievable. If either had a defense, they’d be in this convo too.

  126. 98% percent of you never saw Joe Montana ever play………

    Revisionist Brady Ball washers will never see the league history eras full of greatest players

    “All time” only means their lifetime !!

  127. Why do people waste keystrokes on that?

    There is no real parity.

    The same 5 or 6 teams have been at the top since the turn of this century. The Pats clearly ahead of the rest of the pac

    ————————

    True, but that is only recently and it goes to show the Pats greatness and why Goodell is willing to lie and try to cheat them by stealing their draft picks.

    Without faux “scandals” and distractions with draft picks stolen, NE likely wins SB 42 and SB 46.

    I sure would have liked to have seen a 1st rd pick on the field from 2008, during SB 46, as a Pats fans, but Goodell stole it due to a trumped up charge called “Spygate”.

    After SB 42, the Walkthrough Tape lie story dropped on that Friday night by that fat load Tomase from the Herald, who should be out of the business completely, the Pats players admitted it did distract them before the SB.

    Whoever lied and leaked that, cheated the Pats from greatness.

    As for parity, since 2011, it is true the owners have gotten lazy watching their profits almost exclusively come from the boon from the tv deals, but there clearly is still parity.

    Most games come down to 1 play or the 4th qtr’s waning minutes.

    That did not happen, weekly, in Montana’s era.

  128. Brady is the GOAT and always has been. He’s also the MVP. Don’t be jealous, your wife gave you away.

    #saltyjoe
    #kisstherings

  129. The fact is nobody gives two craps about anyones opinion on this board. The only thing that matters is the film.. Joe Montana is the absolute GOAT! Go watch some NFL Films you troll losers.. get out of your moms basement. Why do all NFL former players still choose Montana over Brady in the big game? GET A LIFE. Your opinion is meaningless. 95% of you are under 20 and never watched a football game before 2000.. TROLLS! And most of you barely graduated high school and work minimum wage jobs at burger kings just another reason your opinions don’t matter..

  130. New England here, and Joe is not only correct, he’s politically correct. Can you plug any of the greats into the Pats’ system and get better results? There is no answer. Could you plug Brady into Montana’s Niners and get better results back in the day? No answer. It’s like comparing boxers from eons ago to recent champs. etc. Great talk in the barber shop, but the simple fact is nobody has the answer. Just enjoy the Dead Poet’s Society for what it achieved, and know that one thing in this life is certain, Brady and Montana will be a member some day, and the topic of football talk for many years to come. Now when the hell is kickoff?

  131. Joe can’t say who the “best ever” is. But he can try to sell you sneakers while giving you some BS about how they make you healthy.

  132. Bart Starr… Only QB to three peat. He won five championships in a seven year period. No one comes close to that kind of domination.
    ===

    The 60’s never happened.

    It would call into question that Brady is the best ever, so that decade is ignored.

    And there was no ESPN. So there was no voice that could tell people how great Starr was.

  133. tylawspick6 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:33 AM
    Ahem..

    I am glad you didnt make a fool of yourself, Joe. you made a legitimate point even though the pansy patsie fans are going to protest the story #NOTMYGOAT!

    Baugh? I mean, we get it, he was the best passer when the forward pass became more part of the game

    Graham was a fantastic winner, but the league had like 8 teams in it, with no cap or free agency. they also played real football where men could tackle and they wore leather helmets

    Plus, he had Marion Motley, Jim Brown and Leroy Kelly in the backfield behind him.

    I mean….Please.
    brady? he had pansy rules that didnt allow the defense to defend the pass or tackle the qb! of course his stats look good!

    1. Brady Greatest of HIS generation!
    1. Montana Greatest of HIS generation!
    1. Graham Greatest of HIS generation!
    1. Unitas Greatest of HIS generation!
    5. Marino -gimme a break. one of the best, but not the greatest. his press is better than his play ever was.

    I think you need to consider the eras, respect the eras, winning is certainly important, since the QB is the most important position in sports, but it’s pretty easy to come up with a top 5 list and who the #1 QB is now.

    No debate left.

    If there was no cap and no cheating the Pats would have two rings instead of 5
    ==================

    Fixed it for you!

    no thanks necessary.

  134. kgbdk says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:19 AM
    In 2009, the NFL added a rule to prevent QB’s from being tackled at the knees. It’s actually nicknamed the “Brady Rule” because it was added to address Brady’s torn ACL in the Chiefs playoff game. The NFL didn’t change the rules to protect Montana.

    No, that is the “Carson Palmer rule”. The “Brady rule” was just an add on to the existing rule saying a defender cant lounge low at the QB from the ground like what happened to Brady. As much football as I watch I cant recall the “Brady rule” ever being called. But again the knee became off limits because of the Steelers taking out Palmer.

  135. He’s right about not being able to compare eras, rules have changed so much. Who knows how QBs and WRs from the period when they weren’t bubble-wrapped would perform now and vice-versa? I’m sure Johnny U and Bart Starr et al would love to have been afforded the protection enjoyed by today’s QBs.

  136. tylawspick6 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:06 AM
    At least Brady and the Patriots do lead Montana and the 49’ers in one key area.
    Fines and sanctions for cheating.
    Patriots 2 – 49’ers 0

    —————

    Wrong.

    1. Crisco on OL jerseys.
    2. Stick Um for Jerry Rice.
    3. Salary cap.

    49ers 3, Pats 0*

    *Goodell caught twice concocting phony scandals against the Pats, with one of them debunked and proven in a federal court in August 2015.

    The other one (Spygate) debunked and proven by BB getting support from Bud Grant, Chuck Knox, Parcells, J. Johnson and BIll Cowher, all of whom exposed Goodell (and Dungy) as a liar.
    ========
    you have the GOAT delusion. congrats.
    Its not Goodells fault that your god tommy cheated.
    those were not manufactured charges.
    3 of your trophies should be vacated. period.

  137. Why does the media try and label someone as the Greatest of All Time? It’s impossible to accurately compare QB’s from different generations and eras. The best you can do is say someone is/was the best from a particular era. No comparisons of Brady, Favre, Manning, Montana, Elway, Marino, Kelly, Staubach, Unitas, Starr, Graham, etc… Not even going to get into WR’s, Rice, Moss, Carter, Hutson,… or D Linemen such as Deacon Jones, Merlin Olson, Reggie, Willie Davis,… There are too many variables to try and compare. The game is different now that it was even 10-20 years ago and therefore you cant compare. The rules have changed. QB’s of yesteryear called their own plays. Not now. I don’t mean to dis anyone by their omission from lists above, so no need to call me out on the individuals not in list above. These were just the names that came to the top of my head as I was typing. So I agree with Joe that you can’t name a GOAT, you can only say that the whatever individual was the best of his time.

  138. Hard to declare Brady the GOAT just based on the success of the Patriots. When you have great defense, great special teams, great running game, great offensive line, great tight ends, great coaches, and last but not least, smart versatile great receivers, success just comes with the territory.

    When a team has a winning records with the likes of Matt Cassel, Garoppolo, and Brissette at QB that says more about that system. Now if Brady for example was to take bad teams to the SB like say Elway did, or demonstrate ability unique to him then it is a totally different conversation. As of right now, Brady is simply the greatest SYSTEM QB even if he plays long enough with the Patriots to win 2 more rings.

  139. julyeast says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:01 AM
    hey people, last time I checked, 4-0 is 4 games above .500 and 5-2 is 3 games above .500. same for Bradshaw

    Better check again, we’re using new math now.

    1-1 =.500
    2-1 =.666 or 1 game over .500
    3-1 =.750 or 2 games over .500
    4-1 =.800 or 3 games over .500
    5-1 = .833 or 4 games over .500

  140. In the CFL maybe, but not in the NFL. You’re just being silly. They ran against defenses that averaged under 25olbs. They wouldn’t make it out of the backfield.
    ===

    Jim Brown, CFL running back???!!

    I have now officially seen it all.

    Worst.post.ever

  141. silvernblackpride says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:20 PM
    Arrogant Patsie fans are the worst sore winners !!!

    Not sore, feeling good Louis!

    Now do we feel the need to respond with educational comments? Yeah, we do. 15 years of what your cooking has created this and you have no one to blame but yourself, and a cadre of whiny haters with time on their hands and sores on their bottoms. Perhaps if you guys would find a more useful endeavor beyond trolling Pats stories you’d never hear from us. But if ya coulda, ya woulda.

  142. Can people please quit posting this untruth?

    Now that is the epitome of the soiled diaper response of a true Gomer the Homer. As a Pat’s fan you disagree therefore it must be wrong…..kids need their momma better run for your time out seat.

  143. silvernblackpride says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:20 PM

    Arrogant Patsie fans are the worst sore winners !!!

    and yes cheaters do prosper LOL.

    XXXXXXXX

    Raider fan, call me when your team becomes truly relevant. In the meantime, only use “LOL” with your grade school classmates.

  144. Brady cheated his way to (at least) two of the five, so SB wins is a pretty meaningless metric. And Montana’s o-line and receiver did too. Who knows how many others have over the years.

    what a glorious sport, huh?

  145. Joe is correct, it is nearly impossible to compare QBs from different eras and call one the “greatest ever”. However, when rating them within the context of their eras, it is not so difficult, in my mind, to do so. The best QBs ever, by relative era, are: Otto Graham, John Unitas, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady. One might argue that players like Baugh, Elway, and Marino should be on this list, but I think given the combination of championships won, impact on the game in their era, stats, and longevity, these four are the “greatest”.

  146. Montana is by far the greatest football player of all times. Aaron Rodgers is the greatest QB playing today. If all they went by was super bowl wins, why wasn’t everyone saying Bradshaw is equal to Montana? When you look at the film, nobody is even close to Montana. Rodgers is way better than Brady.

  147. Not a Pat’s fan but give Brady credit. Just think about it..if not for 2 Chuck and duck passes and one amazing catch Brady may have had 7. Just how many times he has gotten his team to the playoffs is ridiculous.
    Please don’t say the afc east has helped him. They are bad because the other owners are impatient trying to catch up to the Patriots. The worst division is my division…the Jags, Colts, Texans, and Titans over last 10 years.

  148. No offensive player, especially QB, from this era (which favors offenses and handicaps defenses to such a degree) can be considered the best ever. Not even Tom Brady. Sure, he can be considered the best of this era, and he is, but ever?

    Nope.

    Passing is too easy now compared to past to 1990s and before.

  149. Football is a team sport
    -What if Marino played with the 9ers?
    -What if Brady didn’t have Ty Law or Malcom Butler?

    You cannot accurately compare players from different era’s.

    Settle down everyone. It is impossible to compare apples-to-apples, but it is good beer+fire conversation!

  150. As a Pats fan I believe Brady is far and away the best QB of this era but the best ever…all you can say is he is in the conversation.

    We cannot compare players from different era’s, the rules change too much.

    We all have our opinions and choose whatever stats we want to when making the comparisons. Some weigh QB ratings to be heaviest others TD’s still other yards etc…

    Sometimes that is what makes the discussion so fun. Other times depending on the individual, the humor is replaced by frustration because of the stubborn behavior of someone that is unwilling to at least listen to the other side of the discussion.

    For me, at the end of the day, what resonates is this. As a kid I watched the success of the Niners, Cowboys, and the Steelers. I disliked those teams because of their wins, I envied their fans for the same reason. Now as a Pats fan the shoe is on the other foot and all I can say is enjoy it. Sooner or later the tide will turn and these memories will be what we will be focusing on.

  151. Calasade says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:49 PM

    No offensive player, especially QB, from this era (which favors offenses and handicaps defenses to such a degree) can be considered the best ever. Not even Tom Brady. Sure, he can be considered the best of this era, and he is, but ever?

    Nope.

    Passing is too easy now compared to past to 1990s and before.

    ———————————————————

    THANK YOU!!!!!

    If Brady played back in the 70’s he would have only lasted a few seasons.

  152. If this is a discussion about eras, one thing doesn’t add up. If the last two decades are sooooo much easier for quarterbacks, why haven’t we seen multiple repeat SB winners? Why don’t Roethlisburger, Rodgers and Manning have 4-5 SB wins each? Because it is still hard as hell to win a SB! It is no cake walk even given the protection that quarterbacks get.

    So when you have Brady doing it 5 times in 17 years and add to that his 7 conference championships (hence 7 times in the SB), you cannot deny he is the best ever.

  153. GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) in football is a totally subjective thing. What is greatest? Teams do not win or lose because they have a great QB. As the Falcons proved quite poignantly, you need an entire team to play an entire game to win.

    Brady is unquestionably the most prolific, most highly accomplished quarterback in modern NFL (superbowl era) history. All of his stats tell that story objectively.

    But, are accomplishment and accumulated statistics a sign of greatness? Or is it more that he was fortunate enough to be on a dominant team for a very long time?

    I’m a Pats fan and I’m happy to watch Brady and the Patriots play and dominate the league, whether they are the GOAT matters not in the least.

  154. @elitekane

    You can’t be serious are you? Trying to pass Randy Moss as GOAT WR??

    Part of being the bestWR is running routes knowing the balls not coming to you opening up the play for other teammates benefitting the team.

    People seem to forget Randy Moss as a Raider or his final days of the 2nd stint in Minnesota how he would flat out quit in games.

    Your argument is garbage to anybody that actually knows the game

  155. People are confusing greatest with most adored. Montana was greatly respected by team mates and opponents alike because he was great, and nothing can take away his achievements. What we have with Brady is adoring fans, most of who are influenced by more than a small degree of man-crush on him, and will argue over who’s the greatest with the fervor of two seven year olds fighting over an ice cream cone.
    Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Brady lost two.
    Case closed.

  156. The GOAT is a fluid thing. Back in the day, Joe was GOAT. Brady is now. In a decade or so we will have a new person taking on that role and Brady will hopefully mirror what Joe said. I don’t get why people are getting their pannies in a bunch.

  157. Calasade says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:49 PM
    No offensive player, especially QB, from this era (which favors offenses and handicaps defenses to such a degree) can be considered the best ever. Not even Tom Brady. Sure, he can be considered the best of this era, and he is, but ever?

    Nope.

    Passing is too easy now compared to past to 1990s and before.
    —————–

    You know he isnt considered by many to be the GOAT because of any passing stats right? Reading your post and other like it sure seems that way but holy cow are you off base.

    same rules for all QBs since 2004. Other QBs may have better “stats” during this time yet none come close to the winning-that is why he is considered “great”- the winning- not the stats but those stats do help. It’s not like he’s Trent Dilfer, he’s a huge part of why they are there year after year.

  158. averagjoe says:
    Feb 10, 2017 1:19 PM
    People are confusing greatest with most adored. Montana was greatly respected by team mates and opponents alike because he was great, and nothing can take away his achievements. What we have with Brady is adoring fans, most of who are influenced by more than a small degree of man-crush on him, and will argue over who’s the greatest with the fervor of two seven year olds fighting over an ice cream cone.
    Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Brady lost two.
    Case closed.

    —————-

    I can never let that foolish logic go. Montana still lost in the playoffs the years he didn’t make the Super Bowl. That is worse than making the Super Bowl and losing. You have to look at all the years Montana didn’t make the Super Bowl or didn’t make the playoffs and compare that to Brady. If you do that it’s not even close.

    Please at least think about it for a bit. 4-0 in Super Bowls is not a thing.

  159. Montana is absolutely correct. It’s like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds. On the one hand, Babe was the most prolific home run hitter of all time, but he didn’t face the specialty relief pitchers of today and then, Barry Bonds set records that may never be broken and was an all around great player, hit homers, hit for average and was a great outfielder and faced specialty relief pitchers instead of old washed up starters as Ruth did. But, he did use PED’s. It is very hard to compare era’s, things are so different.

    With the modern day emphasis on passing instead of running, guys like Brady, Manning and Brees can put big numbers and points on the board at record numbers. Also, the way that QBs are treated like china dishes today with getting away with intentional grounding and not being hit like Unitas and Starr were all the time is slanted toward QBs of today.

  160. Montana is the best I have ever seen. Followed by Elway and then P. Manning. All three of these QB’s changed the QB position in their era.

  161. While Brady’s obviously in the conversation, I don’t think it’s as clear cut as some are saying.

    Joe Montana still has as good a case. He played for the 49ers until 34 and won 4 SBs…Brady played until 39 and won 5. Neither accomplishment is statistically better and Montana’s 14-5 win percentage with the 49ers is almost equal to Brady’s. It isn’t surprising that the only QB in history to play until 39 for the greatest coach and franchise in his generation also has the most success. Montana may have had more all stars but he also played against tougher competition. Nevermind the 80s Bears and Redskins, Montana had to go against Belichick 3 times in the playoffs. I doubt Brady would have as much success if he had to play against Belichick instead of for him. As well, the 49ers earned all 4 of their SBs without help. Not taking away anything from the Pat’s efforts, but between the Tuck Rule, The stupidest play call in SB history and the biggest choke in SB history they’ve gotten their share of breaks.

  162. Brady is the best of the modern age, basically since they changed the rules to protect QBs in late 1970s. Before that, it was Unitas, and then Otto Graham from the old days.

  163. I’m just curious what team-Montana people say he did better than Brady. Team-Brady points to rings, stats, longevity, lesser receivers around them, salary cap era, MUCH better winning percentage, better td-in ratio, etc etc. But what does Joe have over Tom? Like specifics. Go ahead, I’ll wait……

  164. I would note that Elway got Denver, with the worst defense of any SB teams, get to 5 of them, going 2 and 3. I seriously wonder if any other QB could have done that, including Brady.

  165. In the last Super Bowl Montana won, the play before he threw the game winning touchdown, he threw a pass to a Bengal defensive back that hit him right in the hands. Of course he dropped it. So by most people’s logic, Montana is the greatest ever because a d back dropped an interception?

  166. Brady played for Belichick, Montana played against him. Without him, Brady wouldn’t have 5 SBs and if Montana didn’t play and lose to his Giants 3 times in the playoffs, Montana would have more. Longevity goes to the fact Brady played when QBs were protected and had superior training, diet and supplement info. Additionally, the 49ers “won” 4 SBs with Montana, Brady won 2 and was gifted with 3.

    —————————-

    dmc1542 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 1:50 PM
    I’m just curious what team-Montana people say he did better than Brady. Team-Brady points to rings, stats, longevity, lesser receivers around them, salary cap era, MUCH better winning percentage, better td-in ratio, etc etc. But what does Joe have over Tom? Like specifics. Go ahead, I’ll wait……

  167. “grogansheroes says:
    Feb 10, 2017 1:54 PM

    In the last Super Bowl Montana won, the play before he threw the game winning touchdown, he threw a pass to a Bengal defensive back that hit him right in the hands. Of course he dropped it. So by most people’s logic, Montana is the greatest ever because a d back dropped an interception?”

    Really?

    And Brady won his fifth because the Falcons played stupid at the 22 yard line with 4 minutes to go. And his first when Vinatieri nailed a field goal and his defense shut down the greatest show on turf. And his fourth when Malcom Butler picked off Russell Wilson. Etc. etc.

    See how that works? Sheesh.

  168. “There will come a time when someone wins 6 Super Bowls and shatter Brady’s record but will NEVER take away the fact that he was the greatest of his generation.”

    I hate to break it to you, but there won’t be another QB in the rest of the league’s entire future history to win a sixth super bowl ring as a quarterback in this salary cap era in this same 32 team league. Brady has already achieved the impossible. I could see more QBs winning three super bowl rings but more than five??? No!

  169. Brady didn’t lose the two SB games vs the Giants – the Giants won because the Pats D couldn’t make a stop. The D takes care of business and NE is 7-0 in SB.

  170. I’m just curious what team-Montana people say he did better than Team-Brady.. But what does Joe have over Tom?
    ===

    Competition.

    The 9ers ended the Cowboys run in the early 80’s… The Giants won 2 Super Bowls, and had one of the best defenses of all-time in ’86… Gibbs took the Redskins to 4 Super Bowls in 10 years and won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs… The Bears defense was monstorous from 1985-1988, its unreal they only won 1 Super Bowl.

    The NFC was an absolute dogfight in the late 80’s.. Brady just doesn’t have that same level of competition today.

    Admittedly, it may be unfair to criticize him for that. In a way, it makes him a victim of his own greatness.

    But at this point, I think Montana has the better claim to the Throne.

  171. Honestly, the discussion is fun – but silly.

    If you tell me you think Brady is the new GOAT, I’m not going to argue with you. It’s a valid position.

    If you tell me you think Montana is still the GOAT, I’m not going to argue with you. It’s a valid position.

    If you tell me you think Unitas is still the GOAT, I’m not going to argue with you. It’s a valid position.

    Anyone else, we’re going to argue.

    (I only left Graham off the list because I’m sticking to the concept of the “modern QB,” and that begins in the time of Unitas)

  172. Brady didn’t lose the two SB games vs the Giants
    ===

    14 points in XLII
    17 points in XLVI

    .. his team scored as many points in less than a half of football Sunday.

  173. I saw Bradshaw win the last two of his four. I saw Montana win all four of his. Now I’ve seen Brady win 5. I saw Jordan win six. I saw the Isles win four cups in a row. What else will I see.

    I’ve been a Patriots fan since 1976. It’s enough for me that we all agree that era for era, Brady may not be the best, but that there is no one better.

    Go Patriots! Go Boston! Go Providence!

  174. History is made up many factors and to look at someone today and compare them to somebody in the past with considering those factors is folly at best. Brady is the best of today’s powder puff QBs …..yea Tammy shake that TuTu. But the best of all time …not in my 60 years of watching.

  175. In Joe Montana’s era, there was no CAP. Teams that had deep pockets could get star players/receivers and sign them again and again. Jerry Rice was a star player; however, he openly admitted to using stick-um.
    Perhaps he shouldn’t have been able to be placed in the HOF. I went to six home 49’er games the last year they won their super bowl. I have had the pleasure to watch Brady perform for many years and there is no comparison. Brady is the GOAT and I do not foresee another QB surpassing him any time soon, perhaps never.

  176. Brady won 2 and was gifted with 3.

    ———-
    I’m not sure which 2 you refer to because in all 7 super bowl appearances he led the potential game winning drive. He left with the lead every time if I’m not mistaken. The only one he didn’t lead the team on a game winning drive was the Eagles game in which they speed the winning points with 3 min left. Otherwise even the Giants games he was let down by the defense.

  177. In Joe Montana’s era, there was no CAP.
    ===

    So what?

    Go back and watch the America’s Game shows. Teams are run exaclty the same then as they are now. Players talk openly about how owners/coaches were going to cut them as they got older.

    The 49ers turned over almost all of their team from ’81 to ’88.

    No different then how Belichick and everyone else run their teams today.

  178. Otto Graham is the best ever. He played in an era where throwing wasn’t really the priority and he still finished with the highest yards per attempt of anyone in history.

    And he went 7 for 10 in title games, making it every year.

    Tom Brady is the best of the Super Bowl era though.

  179. Joe is right. Brady would be a water boy compared to past QB’s like Johnny Unitas. Back then QB’s called their own plays and actually ran the offense. They also weren’t protected like they are today.

  180. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Feb 10, 2017 2:52 PM
    History is made up many factors and to look at someone today and compare them to somebody in the past with considering those factors is folly at best. Brady is the best of today’s powder puff QBs …..yea Tammy shake that TuTu. But the best of all time …not in my 60 years of watching.

    —-

    How is he not “tough enough” for you again? I know you’re a Steelers fan and I get that part of it, but Brady has gotten annihilated in many games I’ve watched and not only does he play the next week no matter what, he never complains about any injury he has, much less dramatize it, and he’s had plenty that would keep most qb’s out over his long career.

    Big Ben has 60 pounds on him and he’s out every year with something or other. And I say that while thinking highly of Ben’s toughness.

    He’s easily the mentally toughest qb out there also. His preparation and will to win is unmatched.

    So, because he doesn’t look like a “tough guy”, that’s what it is?

    BTW, calling him Tammy all the time makes you sound like the “kiddies” you chastise so much…

  181. It’s a good argument, but the only reason he is making it is because TFB just eclipsed his legacy. TB12 GOAT.

  182. Stop trying to sell me this “you can’t compare modern day players to the old timers” rubbish.

    Yes the game has evolved, it is faster, more technical, with bigger, stronger players. The league had 13 teams instead of 32. Teams had to navigate only 2 playoff games to win a title instead of 3 – 4. Those titles mean much less than those won by Brady, Montana, Manning or any of the other modern-era greats.

  183. “Without the “Tuck Rule” Brady would have evaporated”

    “Brady is a good game manager. No more, no less.”

    “If Brady played back in the 70’s he would have only lasted a few seasons.”

    “Whatever patsfan4lifesbchamps drones on about…”

    ——

    All of the above is why it wouldn’t matter if Brady leads a 100 point comeback to win a Super Bowl, goes 24-0 in one season, or wins his 6th and 7th in the next 2 years (look out, meatheads–that one could actually happen!), because they’re all too blinded by prejudice and hatred towards the most successful franchise of a generation to be remotely objective.

    So, by that accurate definition, it doesn’t matter what they think.

    Brady is at the very least, in the discussion for GOAT, with a handful of QB’s in history. Rational fans know this–so we shouldn’t worry about some jamoke with 17 different ID’s posting here from his dungeon.

    Period.

  184. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Feb 10, 2017 2:52 PM
    History is made up many factors and to look at someone today and compare them to somebody in the past with considering those factors is folly at best. Brady is the best of today’s powder puff QBs …..yea Tammy shake that TuTu. But the best of all time …not in my 60 years of watching.

    dude please stop. really. just stop

  185. averagejoe5050 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 2:06 PM
    Without the “Tuck Rule” Brady would have evaporated

    OK then,

    No Immaculate Reception, no Terry Bradshaw SB
    No RTP call, No Stabler SB in 76
    No wide Right – No SB for NYG.

    I can do this all day.

    BTW, the tuck rule was a rule and was correctly called.

  186. The Patriots outclassed and outscored the Panthers and Eagles. In the first SB, they wouldn’t have even made it there without the tuck rule. In 48, it took that horrible pass from Wilson to win the game and in 51 it took the biggest choke in SB history to win. In both Giants games, Brady choked by scoring only 2 TDs in each game.

    ——————————————

    I’m not sure which 2 you refer to because in all 7 super bowl appearances he led the potential game winning drive. He left with the lead every time if I’m not mistaken. The only one he didn’t lead the team on a game winning drive was the Eagles game in which they speed the winning points with 3 min left. Otherwise even the Giants games he was let down by the defense.

  187. Montana is the Most OVERRATED QB EVER!!! Jerry Rice would catch a Four Yard Pass and run the other 40-50 yards for the score! Not only was he not the GOAT, He was not even the best of his generation. To go further he was not the Best in his Conference or Division and get this NOT EVEN ON HIS OWN TEAM!!! “Steve Young was MUCH BETTER than Joe!!!” Plus he could Run!

    Marino and Elway among others were also better!

  188. aarons444 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:41 AM
    Brady: 7-4
    Montana: 4-3
    ==

    Brady; no legit competition

    Joe Montana; great competition

    —————————-

    Revisionist history. The defenses Montana faced in the Super Bowl were all laughably inferior. The balance of power was completely within the NFC during Montana’s era and due to the lack of free agency and salary cap, it stayed that way for over a decade. Despite being in the NFC, Montana also played most of his career in one of the worst divisions in the NFL. So most of the criticisms Brady faces about the level of competition within his division would apply to Montana as well.

  189. rob471773 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:14 AM
    thrifty says:

    Feb 10, 2017 10:45 AM

    The snowflakes pats’ fans are going to have a meltdown. Lol
    ————–
    Nah we’re fine, the glow off of our 5 Lombardi’s shines bright today.
    —————
    just like your arrogance

  190. Sorry Joe. It’s over.

    There’s no speculation or wiggle room left. Brady proved he was better by performing in the clutch like no one in history. The whole world saw it in two of the the last three Bowls.

    Be a man, not a weasel. Don’t further tarnish your reputation, I thought you were above it.

  191. Joe Montana is the greatest, Period. Undefeated in Super Bowls 4-0. Never needed his field goal kicker to win his super bowls. Never threw an interception in the Super Bowl, Has a higher QB rating than Brady, Beat hall of fame QB’s in the Super Bowl, Elway and Moreno. Never CHEATED, Spy gate, deflate gate, the tuck rule. If healthy would have won more super bowls….and dont forget patriots fans, seahawks and falcons choke in the the last minutes to give away Super Bowls. Look up stats urself if you dont believe me. And Tom brady idos is Joe Montana!!!

  192. Brady’s offense scored 13 points in his first SB. Th defense won the game.

    Against the Giants the offense scored 14 and 17 points. The offense let the defense down.

  193. luckyforus says:
    Feb 10, 2017 4:30 PM

    Brady’s offense scored 13 points in his first SB. Th defense won the game.

    Against the Giants the offense scored 14 and 17 points. The offense let the defense down.

    ======================

    All 3 of those Super Bowls had Brady driving down in the 4th qtr and scoring to put his team ahead. If defense holds in the last few minutes of the Giants SBs, that’s 7. Convenient to leave that out.

  194. las0023 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 3:49 PM

    The Patriots outclassed and outscored the Panthers and Eagles. In the first SB, they wouldn’t have even made it there without the tuck rule. In 48, it took that horrible pass from Wilson to win the game and in 51 it took the biggest choke in SB history to win. In both Giants games, Brady choked by scoring only 2 TDs in each game.

    ======

    In both Giants games Brady put his team ahead late in the 4th. If the defense holds, that’s 7.

    Tuck Rule is a bogus argument, Pats had it called against them earlier in the year. It was a rule on the books and they called it, what is the argument exactly? And the Seahawks wouldn’t have even got down to that point if Lockett doesn’t catch a pass with his legs.

  195. nestrongsafety says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:10 AM

    Montana is wrong. Athletes in today’s NFL would crush the NFL of old. I am old enough to remember players from Joe’s era who smoked and drank regularly. Those guys were not nearly as conditioned as today’s players are, not even close. The average NFL player today would easily beat the cleats off Joe and is teammates
    ———————————————————

    That has to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve read here. Todays athlete maybe stronger and more gifted than those of the past but you never heard of a player back then sitting out because of things like turf toe or hamstring strain. QB’s today would not be able to compete on that level and most would be on IR by week 8. The game now is so geared to offenses its rather sad. Players get flagged on text book hits because its “visually” violent.

  196. varangia says:
    Feb 10, 2017 1:53 PM
    I would note that Elway got Denver, with the worst defense of any SB teams, get to 5 of them, going 2 and 3. I seriously wonder if any other QB could have done that, including Brady.
    ========================================
    Elway didn’t even win one until Terrell Davis came in and took over Super Bowls.

  197. Who cares, we should enjoy watching great players play. I don’t care who is better then who if I’m entertained great. Judging who is the best ever is a waste of time.

  198. espi49ers says:
    Feb 10, 2017 4:25 PM
    Joe Montana is the greatest, Period. Undefeated in Super Bowls 4-0. Never needed his field goal kicker to win his super bowls. Never threw an interception in the Super Bowl, Has a higher QB rating than Brady, Beat hall of fame QB’s in the Super Bowl, Elway and Moreno. Never CHEATED, Spy gate, deflate gate, the tuck rule. If healthy would have won more super bowls….and dont forget patriots fans, seahawks and falcons choke in the the last minutes to give away Super Bowls. Look up stats urself if you dont believe me. And Tom brady idos is Joe Montana!!!

    ——–

    Making the super bowl is the goal. Montana didn’t make it to the Super Bowl in 11 of his 15 years playing. That means he lost regular season games and playoff games and wasn’t good enough in those 11 years to make the Super Bowl.

    That’s worse than if he made more Super Bowls and lost.

    Put it this way. In his 3 additional Super Bowl appearances, Brady went 1-2. In 3 of Montanas best other years he lost the Championship game instead of making the Super Bowl. 0-3.

    Worse than Brady.

    No Super Bowl Interceptions is impressive for sure. However, From 1982-1996 the NFC won 14 of 15 Super Bowls. The AFC was very inferior competition at that time. Montana did throw 21 INTs in his playoff career in 23 games. 0.91 per game. Brady threw 31 in 34 games. Also, 0.91 per game.

    Brady had to the Previous Super Bowl Champion twice and Atlanta, who where the leagues top offense. That is very strong competition. Eli and the Giants D beat him, but he’s going to the HOF too.

    Jerry Rice was using Stickem. That is cheating!

    The tuck rule is nonsense. That’s just a football play. It was the right call based on the rules. What is Brady supposed to do about that.

    Spygate and Deflategate. Meh. I’ll give you those. They throw some shade on Tommy, but they were pretty silly for the most part. The idea that a deflated ball can help him seems to be laid to waste basically at this point.

    When other teams choke, that means your teams defense made a play generally. That was the case in this game. The defense made plays. Choking isn’t getting sacked. That’s the defense making plays. Could Atlanta have called different plays and maybe won? Yeah. But they didn’t. It’s not a choke job.

    Tom Brady’s idol is Joe Montana because Joe was great. Just that Brady has passed him now.

  199. I think that Brady is much better than Montana was. And that QBs like Unitas, Graham and Staubach were better than both Brady & Montana.

    Montana has for years using been using a self-serving fallacy that he played in a “different era that was tougher on QBs” than Brady. The fact is that despite the 25 year difference in their eras, BOTH played AFTER the 1978 rule changes which effectively crippled defenses in order to artificially inflate QB/WR stats (in order to generate more TV revenue by increasing viewership).

    Before 1978:

    – DBs could have significant contact with receivers beyond 5 years without being called for pass-interference
    – the headslap was legal for d-linemen
    – the enveloping tactics favored by today’s o-linemen (and those in Montana’s era) resulted in holding penalties

    So BOTH Montana & Brady were beneficiaries of the landmark rules-changes although Montana likes to claim that he was subject to the old-school rules.

  200. I have no idea who is the GOAT, but it sure as Hell seems to help to get locked in with one of the best coaches in history.

  201. Subjective opines are just that – no final arbiter can or will ever decide, and even were there consensus said would validate nothing.

    That said, my opine: every QB who has played aft the rule-facilitated changes pass blocking (1973), bump rule (1978) & other assists given nod offenses to date, cannot carry the shoes of those played before them.

    As such, Mssrs. Starr, Unitas, Dawson, Jurgensen, Graham & Baugh are the best ever, those who came aft pretenders, all of them.

  202. aarons444 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:41 AM
    Brady: 7-4
    Montana: 4-3
    ==
    Brady; no legit competition
    Joe Montana; great competition
    —————————-
    Revisionist history. The defenses Montana faced in the Super Bowl were all laughably inferior. The balance of power was completely within the NFC during Montana’s era and due to the lack of free agency and salary cap, it stayed that way for over a decade. Despite being in the NFC, Montana also played most of his career in one of the worst divisions in the NFL. So most of the criticisms Brady faces about the level of competition within his division would apply to Montana as well.

    ————

    To add to that…The NFC won 14 of 15 Super Bowls from 1982-1996.

    The Super Bowls were generally Montana’s easiest playoff games as all his competition in the Playoffs was in the NFC. Hence him not making the Super Bowl in 11 of his 15 seasons.

    Brady had similar competition. Peyton is right there with these guys as one of the top QBs of all time and Brady played him every year and many times in the Playoffs. If it wasn’t for Peyton, Brady makes 3 more Super Bowls.

    Also… as for Brady’s division, he pounds on everyone else the same way. His out of division win percentage is basically the same as his division win percentage. This year he went 4-0 against the vaunted AFC North for example.

  203. Brady won the SB using James White. Think about that.
    Montana had Jerry Rice with stickum and teammates spraying their uniforms with silicone.
    Deflategate and Memogate are sham scandals.
    Brady is not done yet. There is still greatness to be had.

  204. Kerouac says:
    Feb 10, 2017 5:08 PM
    Subjective opines are just that – no final arbiter can or will ever decide, and even were there consensus said would validate nothing.
    That said, my opine: every QB who has played aft the rule-facilitated changes pass blocking (1973), bump rule (1978) & other assists given nod offenses to date, cannot carry the shoes of those played before them.
    As such, Mssrs. Starr, Unitas, Dawson, Jurgensen, Graham & Baugh are the best ever, those who came aft pretenders, all of them.

    ——————–

    Send Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Ben Roethlisberger back in time and it would be like 4 men among boys. Nobody could even knock them down. Those guys were part timers. These are highly trained multimillionaire athletes.

  205. araidersfan says:
    Feb 10, 2017 5:05 PM
    I think that Brady is much better than Montana was. And that QBs like Unitas, Graham and Staubach were better than both Brady & Montana.
    Montana has for years using been using a self-serving fallacy that he played in a “different era that was tougher on QBs” than Brady. The fact is that despite the 25 year difference in their eras, BOTH played AFTER the 1978 rule changes which effectively crippled defenses in order to artificially inflate QB/WR stats (in order to generate more TV revenue by increasing viewership).
    Before 1978:
    – DBs could have significant contact with receivers beyond 5 years without being called for pass-interference
    – the headslap was legal for d-linemen
    – the enveloping tactics favored by today’s o-linemen (and those in Montana’s era) resulted in holding penalties
    So BOTH Montana & Brady were beneficiaries of the landmark rules-changes although Montana likes to claim that he was subject to the old-school rules.

    —————

    You are missing the point where the players are so much bigger stronger and faster that the rules had to change so nobody was killed. Brady or even Kirk Cousins against those old teams would be a slaughter.

  206. jimmyt says:
    Feb 10, 2017 3:33 PM
    Man, Pats fans are cry babies!

    ——–

    You have that way wrong. Our team just won the Super Bowl and we want to talk about it 24×7 and you guys are giving us the opportunity.

  207. jags2daship says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:29 AM
    I agree football is a sport of generations and the game played in his day was a way different

    ———–

    Yes…. it was played by smaller, slower less athletically trained men.

  208. electricboogalo says:
    Feb 10, 2017 10:37 AM
    He’s right. The position and sport now coddles the QB position and is slanted to favor offenses. It’s a different game…QBs and receivers used to be treated as football players, you know, that could be hit and tackled.

    ————

    Did you see Brady get smashed in his last 3 playoff runs? Last year he got killed and still had a two point conversion chance to get to the Super Bowl. The guys hitting him are way bigger too.

  209. “dogballssite says:
    Feb 10, 2017 3:39 PM

    Stop trying to sell me this “you can’t compare modern day players to the old timers” rubbish….
    …Those titles mean much less than those won by Brady, Montana, Manning or any of the other modern-era greats.”

    All this shows is that you know nothing.

    You are a very skilled QB, and I’m going to let you play the game one of two ways:

    First option: Your receivers can’t be touched after they get five yards past the line of scrimmage, and can only be “bumped” once in that five yard zone. Your offensive lineman, while they can’t “hold,” have liberal use of their hands in blocking. Defensive players can’t put their hands on your blocker’s heads. Defensive players can’t hit you above the shoulders or below the knees. In fact, if their hand grazes your helmet, it’s a penalty. Defensive player can’t hit you after you release the ball.

    Second option: Your receivers can be contacted at all times until the ball is in the air. Your offensive lineman are severely restricted from using their hands in blocking. Defensive players can hit your lineman in the head – hard. They can hit you below the knees. They can hit you in the head – hard. They can hit you after you release the ball – hard.

    So which situation allows you to be a “better” QB?

  210. People who think Otto Graham is the greatest really ought to look at his playoff stats.

    12 games
    14 TD’s
    17 INT’s

    In 6 of his 9 playoff/championship wins, his defense held the offense to 10 points or less. While a great QB for the era, he really didn’t shine in the playoffs. Didn’t hurt that had 6 Hall-of-Famers on his team and a Hall-of-Fame coach.

    In three of his playoff games, he had ratings of 0.0 (he was 2-15), 16.1, and 47.9.

    Not that QB’s of the time were putting up numbers like they are today, but Graham just didn’t perform that well in the post-season.

  211. Brady has the best stats in the modern throwing era.
    Montana was the coolest under pressure (is that John Candy in he stands?!)
    Unitas was the toughest and redefined the position.
    Graham was the greatest of the early era.

  212. Make a list of playoff records, Championship Game appearances, on top of Super Bowls and MVP’s, and how many years they did it for at a high level, and then let’s talk.

  213. The defenses Montana faced in the Super Bowl were all laughably inferior. The balance of power was completely within the NFC during Montana’s era and due to the lack of free agency and salary cap, it stayed that way for over a decade. Despite being in the NFC, Montana also played most of his career in one of the worst divisions in the NFL. So most of the criticisms Brady faces about the level of competition within his division would apply to Montana as well.
    ===

    You’re wrong about the division.

    The Rams made the Playoffs 6 of 7 years, and 5 years in a row after drafting Eric Dickerson in ’83. Multiple 10-win seasons.

    The Saints were also no cupcake with their great Dome Patrol defense.

    VASTLY superior to the garbage Brady faces yearly.

    And your first point cancels out the second.

    Getting out of the Conference WAS the Super Bowl. So what does it matter who he beat when he got there? The heavy lifting was already done.

  214. pastabelly says:
    Feb 10, 2017 4:51 PM
    varangia says:
    Feb 10, 2017 1:53 PM
    I would note that Elway got Denver, with the worst defense of any SB teams, get to 5 of them, going 2 and 3. I seriously wonder if any other QB could have done that, including Brady.
    ========================================
    Elway didn’t even win one until Terrell Davis came in and took over Super Bowls.

    ================

    History has been very kind to Elway. I always felt he was pretty overrated. If not for some late career success handing the ball to TD and his 8 yard helicopter play, he’d be remembered as a choke artist. Remember – he didn’t just lose those first three Super Bowls – he was absolutely annihilated in them.

  215. Montana had no problem with there being a best ever when folks were naming him. Its only now that Brady has surpassed him that he has this issue. That change in stance, because its a change in stance at this time, just sounds like sour grapes.

    Other things that suddenly appeared.. When folks would say it was Montana the Brady haters all were on with that. Now that Brady has supassed Montana is when they suddenly start with the Unitas, Grahm, Naguski, etc… talk. If that was any serious argument it would have been said all along not suddenly appear now.

    And cheating allegations? Come on, at this point everyone knows Brady never cheated, that was total BS. The only ones still saying so are only doing it because they need to cling to something (not unlike Linus’s blanket with the thumb sucking) because its just too hard for them to admit to themselves and others that the guy they hate really has risen to the top by no other means than his own excellence.

    As to you guys that post things like ‘I hate Brady but I have to admit he has earned the goat crown’ I might not be with you on the hating but I do respect you for staying honest with yourself and others.

  216. pappageorgio says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:43 AM
    Joe is right. Different eras. Brady has no doubt performed of the course of his career, but he’s also been protected from the type of punishment Joe had to take. Head shots, knee shots, late hits, guys leading with the crown…..Every time Brady gets breathed on he gets up talking to the refs.

    =================================

    Brady’s been protected from punishment?
    He lost a whole season when his knee was blown out by a low hit.

  217. The Super Bowls were generally Montana’s easiest playoff games as all his competition in the Playoffs was in the NFC. Hence him not making the Super Bowl in 11 of his 15 seasons.

    Brady had similar competition.
    ===

    No, he really didn’t.

    Manning? Yawn. They whipped his tail over and over again. They even had to change the rules to give Manning a better chance to compete after the Pats mauled his receivers so many times. Manning got him once. Big whoop.

    Pittsburgh? Never played eachother the years the Steelers went to the Super Bowl. How is that a rivalry?

    Has Brady faced a mastermind like Belichick? Pfft!! LOL.. Montana did. And Belichick knocked him out of the Playoffs 3 times. Twice LITERALLY! Almost ended his career in 1990.

    Look, I have nothing but respect for what Brady has done. Scary that he’s not even finished. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets 3 more Rings if he’s serious about playing that long. But he’s not beating the level of competition Montana faced. Its not even close.

  218. You are missing the point where the players are so much bigger stronger and faster that the rules had to change so nobody was killed.
    ===

    And we’ll never know how THOSE athletes would fare with life-long weight training, and with todays modern medicine and “supplements”

    Why waste the keystrokes?

  219. I’m a Patriots fan, and I don’t care who is said to be the Greatest Of All Time. Would the GOAT get an award? A big cash bonus? ? A huge “goat” trophy?
    We are arguing about what is an individual opinion. It’s something that can not ever be proven by anybody! Even if Brady were to retire with every QB record in the books, you still have to consider past generations, like Joe did.
    Can’t all you see all this talk is bait for football fans to get wound up?

  220. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Feb 10, 2017 2:52 PM
    History is made up many factors and to look at someone today and compare them to somebody in the past with considering those factors is folly at best. Brady is the best of today’s powder puff QBs …..yea Tammy shake that TuTu. But the best of all time …not in my 60 years of watching.

    dude please stop. really. just stop

    I am sorry I used a word you don’t understand . Tell me was it folly or perhaps TuTu. What can you possibly know about football prior to 2000…..about as much as after 2000…. nothing. So just bite me tool.

  221. ill give it to Brady as the “Luckiest” qb in nfl history….new every play the rams were running, tuck rule, seahawks could have shoved it down their throats withe beast mode at the two yard line, plus who gives up a 25 point lead in the 2nd half. Not that brady was good, the other teams choked and the patriots cheated. The Truth!!!

  222. Please, no one wants to hear anymore of the bedroom talk between Joe and his wife, especially when she confesses that Joe keeps calling himself the greatest while in bed.

  223. Remember – [Elway] didn’t just lose those first three Super Bowls – he was absolutely annihilated in them.
    ===

    Revisionist history.

    1 of 3 was an ‘annihilation’

    The first game was close into the 3rd Q. Phil Simms had one of the best Super Bowls ever.

    The Broncos were dominating the 1st half of the Skins game in ’87 but a series of misadventures in the 2nd Q took the wheels off. The Broncos were 1 play away for making that a MUCH different ball game.

  224. bannedfromchoirpractice says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:13 AM
    The difference being, Joe played most of his games at least dazed, if not halfway knocked out. Not the case for Brady. If a defender even touches a quarterback’s or a “defenseless” receiver’s helmet in today’s wussified era of football, the defense is penalized 15 yards and an automatic first down. My little sister could play quarterback in the NFL today, and her stats would look pretty good just on the yardage she’d gain by roughing the passer and defensive pass interference calls. Joe is absolutely right: there is no comparison.
    “Defenseless” wasn’t even a word before Brady came along.

    ———————————————————–
    Sorry but that nonsense about the quarterbacks being subjected to hits is easily debunked by watching a video from 1976 that’s posted online.
    Just search for: “Roughing the Passer’: The Patriots-Raiders Playoff Game They Don’t Want You To Know About!” on the popular online video site and you can see how a call back in 1976 cost the Patriots a chance to win a Superbowl. Another interesting video is titled: “76 raiders patriots”——————————————————–

  225. mongobo says:
    Feb 10, 2017 5:08 PM
    I have no idea who is the GOAT, but it sure as Hell seems to help to get locked in with one of the best coaches in history.

    —-

    Do you mean Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick?

  226. aarons444 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 6:22 PM
    Remember – [Elway] didn’t just lose those first three Super Bowls – he was absolutely annihilated in them.
    ===
    .
    The Broncos were dominating the 1st half of the Skins game in ’87 but a series of misadventures in the 2nd Q took the wheels off. The Broncos were 1 play away for making that a MUCH different ball game.
    ===================================
    The Broncos were annihilated in this game as well, regardless of whatever the misadventures were. 35-10 at the half is a blowout. The only thing Elway was one play away from was making the final 42-17 instead of 42-10.

  227. Tom Brady – 11 superbowl records.
    Joe Montana – zero superbowl records.

    Superbowl records include all superbowls, including the 2 superbowls that Joe Montana played in.

  228. fritz96 says:
    Feb 10, 2017 6:06 PM
    In both Giants Super Bowls Brady choked with only 2TDs per game. With even a mediocre QB performance the Pats would have won.
    ===================================
    How many Super Bowl winning QB’s have “choked” with a measly 2 TD’s and still somehow won Super Bowl games?

  229. espi49ers says:
    Feb 10, 2017 6:21 PM
    ill give it to Brady as the “Luckiest” qb in nfl history….new every play the rams were running, tuck rule, seahawks could have shoved it down their throats withe beast mode at the two yard line, plus who gives up a 25 point lead in the 2nd half. Not that brady was good, the other teams choked and the patriots cheated. The Truth!!!

    That’s a craaaaaazy leap you just made there, but, if it makes you feel warm and cozy, believe if if you need to.

    The above lunacy is a perfect lesson in how the brain can fool itself to tap into and satiate the pleasure center.

    That the original statement is jibberish doesn’t matter. It’s about feedback loops consisting of cascades of neurotransmitters and a comment on how humans cope with trauma.

  230. luckyforus says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:16 PM

    Brady has only won 20 games in his career when his defense ranked in the bottom half of the league.
    ———————————-

    Out of how many games?

  231. If this PFT comment section was run like a boxing or martial art event then we would see a towel being thrown from the espi49ers corner as the ref stops the fight without even seeing the towel being thrown.

  232. Shocking, The New England internet crashed today with these thoughtful, non-self serving comments by one of the greatest merely stating the obvious that you cant select a GOAT.

    Brady Lovers are still in fetal position, moaning for their beloved Tommy. Sad stuff folks. I love my Raiders but I really have a life and self identity apart from my team. Chowda Heads, not so much. Pity.

    Ohhhhhhhh Tooooommmmmm (Laurie Petrie voice).

  233. Honest Question for Cheetah Nation. In that your life is consumed with loving Tom Brady — you watch every game, you dote on everything he says and does, you do not have a life apart from Tom or the Patriots, you think about him more than you do your friends or loved ones, your parents, you pray for him – in light of all this, do you believe in your fan boy mind that you have a close, personal relationship with Tom? Do you ever talk to Tom? Does he talk back to you? What does he say and is he smiling at you? Talk to me Cheetahs. Tell us all about your special friendship with Tom! Is he your Mommy, your Daddy, your Super Man? Oh please, tell us about Tom. Nobody knows him better than you. Tom is your God, yes?

  234. it is all subjective – there is no way to prove it. It is like saying “Jungleland is better than Thunder Road.” They are both great songs

    Do not like Brady, but he is one of the all-time greats.

  235. Thank you Joe Montana. You said what I have been saying for years. It’s totally unfair to compare players of different eras.
    I’d love to have seen Tom Brady or any other of these present day QB’s play under the rules of the 20’s right up through the 70’s when QB’s were open game for defensive players on every play.
    When the guys back then threw an interception, they literally had to run to the sidelines so they wouldn’t be hit by every defensive player who was near them.
    QB’s of today have it made. The reason they can play until they are 40 is because of the rules, period. I don’t care how tough they are. Brett Favre wouldn’t have made half the starts he made without missing games in those days. They’d have taken his head off at some point, or broken one of his bones.
    Go back and look at pictures of Y.A. Title, the Giants QB in the ’63 championship game against the Bears. He was battered and bloodied during that game. There’s a famous picture of him with both knees on the ground and blood dripping down his bald head.
    And then go back and listen to the late former Rams great DE Deacon Jones explaining how he felt about QB’s. He said he hated all of them and said he tried to kill them on every play. He wore a cast on his forearm with which he batter the offensive linemen along side their heads to knock them senseless, then he’d go after the QB.
    He said he even hated the QB’s on his own team and tried to take their heads off in practice, too. And he wasn’t kidding. That’s how those players felt. They didn’t make the huge money these guys make today and they felt the opposing QB’s were trying to take money out of their pockets. So, they wanted to knock them out of the game.
    I remember one game vividly between the Colts and Rams — two bitter rivals. There is a famous picture of the great Colts LB’er Mike Curtis almost decapitating Rams QB Roman Gabriel. It was one of the most vicious hits I ever saw. Curtis came in from Gabriel’s left side and he went straight for Gabriel’s head. Gabriel’s head went violently to the right all the way down to his shoulder pads with Curtis’s huge arm delivering the blow. Today, it would have been a 15 yard penalty and Gabriel would have gone to the sidelines in the concussion protocol. Not then. Gabriel got back up and continued playing and Curtis got slaps on his back from his teammates.
    I remember QB’s back then who took big hits in a game saying later they had no recollection of anything in the game after the hit. They just kept playing. It was routine and happened every week.
    I respect today’s QB’s. And Tom Brady is a great one. But they play in a cream puff league compared to the greats of the past. Alex Karras had it right when he said they should put skirts on them.

  236. And now, a moment of silence for all the koolaide drinkers to bow and pray for Tom Brady, his Super Model wife, and his BFF ManBro, Donald the President. Glory, glory, glory to God, They have been chosen to lead us!

  237. Montana has a much higher QB rating and 0 interceptions. If he played until 39 for a top team, he’d easily beat Brady’s records.

    ————-

    factpurveyor says:
    Feb 10, 2017 6:40 PM
    Tom Brady – 11 superbowl records.
    Joe Montana – zero superbowl records.

    Superbowl records include all superbowls, including the 2 superbowls that Joe Montana played in.

  238. In fairness, the issue here isn’t whether Brady is the GOAT – and Montana is #2

    That’s been decided.

    But honestly I can’t fault Montana for taking this tact

    If it’s not up to him to say he’s #1 – and it’s not, as he knows…

    Then it’s not up to him to say he’s #2 either

  239. I’ll credit Joe Montana for never throwing a pick or pick-6 in a super bowl game, but he played in four games in comparison to Brady appearing in seven of them. Look at how many pass-attempts Joe Montana had in his super bowl games in comparison to Brady. Montana had 122 in four games whereas Brady has 309 pass-attempts in total. If a quarterback throws the ball more often, they’ll be more likely to throw INTs. Montana was benched in the 1987 divisional round game, whereas Brady has never been benched in a playoff game.

    The Niners even lost 49-3 in a divisional round playoff game with Montana. Brady and the Pats have never lost one playoff game or let alone, not even one football game by a blowout like that. I’ll admit that Joe Montana was the better super bowl quarterback, but none of those Niner teams with Montana ever came back from a 25 point deficit in a playoff game to win. To add to that, appear in eleven conference championships and win 25 playoff games with the same QB. Terry Bradshaw also went 4-0 in SBs, but he’s not recognized on anyone’s Top 5 Greatest QBs of All Time list because of him throwing 212 TDs-210 INTs.

    Hey, Montana never won a fifth super bowl ring, a fourth SB MVP award, or lead the league in TD passes four times in his NFL career like Brady. Brady was the first quarterback in NFL history to win that MVP award by a unanimous vote.

  240. In fairness, the issue here isn’t whether Brady is the GOAT – and Montana is #2

    That’s been decided.
    _________________________________________

    And of course it has been decided by a homer fan boy.

  241. In the 1980s Montana would throw the ball then get nailed by Lawrence Taylor who was coached by Bill Belichick. Perfectly legal.

    In the 2000s Brady gets tapped as he throws the ball then cries to the refs. No wonder he’s able to play at a high level for an extra 5 years and win more Super Bowls.

  242. The DUMBEST question in all sports is comparing today’s players with yesteryear’s. How can you compare todays footballers especially offence when there has been so many rule changes to help that side of the football. Even the records that have been broken in the last few years are a sham. Playing out doors in the frozen north compared to indoors are a big factor also IMO. Its ridiculous. Brady’s one of the greatest lets leave it at that.

  243. Montana is the best. Do you expect Michael Jordan to call Bill Russell the best ever? If you actually watch the guys play, Montana was far better than anyone else. If you only count Super Bowls, then Terry Bradshaw was better than Brady up until a couple years ago. I gotta go with my eyeballs over the latest trend.

  244. He’s right, it’s hard to compare eras. In Joe’s day you didn’t have free agents leave all the time and no salary cap. If his team’s played in today’s NFL he wouldn’t have the luxury of keeping the gang together. Look who Brady won with in his first and who he had with his most recent. Being able to to it with different rosters is the telling part and allows you to compare. No one would argue it is harder to keep a team together.

  245. He’s right you can’t compare eras. Game has changed so much. They are the greats of all time. Leave it at that.
    Tho I would love to see what Brady could have done with Montana’s cast of characters. Marino for that matter too or Elway before he had Terrell Davis and defense. He single handedly took this Crap bronco tea s to the super bowl. One guy does not win a Super Bowl by himself.
    QB’s get the credit and the Blame too.
    Give me Marino or Elway with those 49er teams

  246. People mention how they would like to see Brady play with Montana’s team. I would like to see Montana get to play the Jets, Colts and Steelers in the playoffs instead of the 80s Bears, Redskins, and Belichik Giants.

  247. This is a discussion that favors older fans. Anyone under 50-55, has no clue how vicious the game used to be. I can remember Buck Buchanan picking up a QB and body slamming him. Legal hit. When I was a kid watching, people would openly say “they have to knock out the QB”. It was a key part of the game. Joe Namath, Bert Jones and numerous other QBs were deliberately injured right out of the league.

    It is very subjective. You can argue Brady is the greatest ever. My take is that Brady is the greatest since they changed the rules in the 70s. No reason to get upset. If you didn’t watch Namath, Unitas and the other greats play, you will never understand the argument.

  248. varangia says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:50 PM

    This is a discussion that favors older fans. Anyone under 50-55, has no clue how vicious the game used to be.
    —————————————————————-
    Then please explain the roughing the passer call in 1976 which by all accounts stole a superbowl from the Patriots and handed it to the Raiders.

    Everyone keeps saying that back in the day players were allowed to hit quarterbacks. Plus football fans should know that the refs call less penalties during the playoff games.

    Just search for: “Roughing the Passer’: The Patriots-Raiders Playoff Game They Don’t Want You To Know About!” on the popular online video site

    I saw hits on quarterbacks in 2016 that were much harder than the hit in that video. Even in the last superbowl. So why the flag in 1976?

  249. mototax says:
    Feb 10, 2017 11:07 AM

    Back in the day QB’s got hit unmercifully
    —————————————————————
    Oh really?
    Montana was drafted into the NFL in 1979.

    But there is a video posted online from 1976 which shows a player being flagged after barely touching a quarterback in a playoff game in 1976.

    Don’t forget that…historically players were always allowed to hit harder in playoff games than in the regular season. Yet we see a phantom call back in 1976.

    Just search the popular online vide site for: “Roughing the Passer’: The Patriots-Raiders Playoff Game They Don’t Want You To Know About!”

    Another interesting video is titled: “76 raiders patriots”

  250. Let me help you with the comparison Joe:

    14 Division Championships is twice as good as 7.

    7 Conference Championships is 70 % better than 4.

    5 Super Bowl championships is 25% better than 4.

    Don’t keep making a fool of yourself.

  251. QUESTION: What do the following NFL legends, some being Hall of Famers, who are not connected to the New England Patriots all have in common?

    Boomer Esiason
    Troy Aikman
    Jim Kelly
    Joe Theisman
    LaDanian Tomlinson
    Deion Sanders
    Shannon Sharpe
    Darrelle Revis
    Trent Dilfer
    Dan Marino
    Reggie Wayne
    Ben Roethlisberger
    Phil Simms

    ANSWER: They ALL have gone on record as saying, “TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK OF ALL TIME.”

    Boom.

  252. Joe was never making this argument that you can’t compare eras before when he and Brady were tied with 4 rings. But, oh, now that Tom passed him and has Joe in his rear view mirror, Joe suddenly comes up with, “you can’t compare different eras.” Please.

    Gimme a break Joe. I was a huge fan of you growing up, but now I’ve lost a lot of respect for you. Tom is Number 1 and you are Number 2, and there is no shame in admitting that fact.

  253. QUESTION: What do the following NFL legends, some being Hall of Famers, who are not connected to the New England Patriots all have in common?

    Boomer Esiason
    Troy Aikman
    Jim Kelly
    Joe Theisman
    LaDanian Tomlinson
    Deion Sanders
    Shannon Sharpe
    Darrelle Revis
    Trent Dilfer
    Dan Marino
    Reggie Wayne
    Ben Roethlisberger
    Phil Simms

    ANSWER: They ALL have gone on record as saying, “TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK OF ALL TIME.”

    ADDENDUM: I left someone important out. Add Terry Bradshaw to the list of legends that called TB12 the GOAT.

  254. luckyforus says:
    Feb 10, 2017 12:16 PM

    Brady has only won 20 games in his career when his defense ranked in the bottom half of the league.

    ————————————————————-

    Lie.
    Year – Pats Total D Ranking – Brady Wins
    2001 – 24 – 14
    2002 – 23 – 9
    2005 – 26 – 11
    2010 – 25 – 14
    2011 – 31 – 15
    2012 – 25 – 13
    2013 – 26 – 13

  255. Worst playoff losses:

    Brady:
    2009: 33-14 to Baltimore; 19 points
    2013: 28-13 to Baltimore; 15 points
    2005: 27-13 to Denver; 14 points
    2015: 26-16 to Denver; 10 points
    2010: 28-21 to Jets; 7 points

    Montana:
    1986: 49-3 to NYGiants; 46 points
    1993: 30-13 to Buffalo; 17 point
    1985: 17-3 to NYGiants; 14 points
    1988: 36-24 to Minnesota; 12 points (Montana benched in this game)
    1994: 27-17 to Miami: 10 points

  256. I was watching the replay of Pats VS Eagles Super Bowl 39 and heard Troy Aikman say that what Brady and the Patriots have done is much harder to do than what he and the Cowboys accomplished. Now Aikman only has 3 rings so maybe Montana has a little more clout but I think it’s a valid opinion to consider.

  257. I enjoy watching Vikings’ fans come up with arbitrary cut-off dates and pointing out that the Packers had so many years of HOF quarterback play and “only” won 2 Super Bowls.

    Meanwhile, the Vikings have zero Super Bowls, had 13 years of HOF QB Fran Tarkenton, and had a HOF coach lead a team with 6 Hall-of-Fame players to no Super Bowls.

  258. In the 1980s Montana would throw the ball then get nailed by Lawrence Taylor who was coached by Bill Belichick. Perfectly legal.

    In the 2000s Brady gets tapped as he throws the ball then cries to the refs.
    _________________

    Its statements like this that are such a farce, and spewed by ignorant, low information fans. Two years ago against the Broncos Brady was hit over 25 times without mercy by Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware when his O-Line couldn’t protect him, but yet he kept fighting courageously to the end. That Broncos defense was called one of the greatest of all time, and carried Peyton Manning to a SB. Cam Newton totally wilted against that same defense after Brady came close to beating them in their house. Brady never “cried” to the refs once, but just kept getting up and came within a 2 point conversion of going into OT in Denver.

    Your statement shows you are a complete idiot devoid of even basic knowledge of football.

  259. Say it isn’t so Joe… It would be hard to admits someone else is better than me too. I think I am the best snow removal tech around but maybe not of all-time.

    Joe, your teams were stacked. What TB12 has done will never be matched. No matter what you, Roger, or ESPN says, TB12 is the G.O.A.T.!

  260. 2 of those came when Montana was on the inferior Chiefs and another 2 came against Belichick’s Giants.

    ————————————–

    carloswlassiter says:
    Worst playoff losses:

    Montana:
    1986: 49-3 to NYGiants; 46 points
    1993: 30-13 to Buffalo; 17 point
    1985: 17-3 to NYGiants; 14 points
    1988: 36-24 to Minnesota; 12 points (Montana benched in this game)
    1994: 27-17 to Miami: 10 points

  261. QBs are much more protected today. Aside from rule changes on head and knee hits, the refs enforce the rules differently now. They let the players get away with much more back then. “Let them play” was the philosophy. Since the 1994 owners meeting the refs are much more likely to call a roughing the passer penalty and defenders play accordingly.

  262. las0023 says:
    Feb 13, 2017 10:02 AM
    2 of those came when Montana was on the inferior Chiefs

    ===================================

    Well, he wasn’t good enough to win his job back from Steve Young.
    Whose fault was that?

  263. Montana was coming up on 37 years old and was injured the prior 2 seasons (1991/1992). Young had led the 49ers to a 14-2 record in 1992, and led the league in TD passes, rating, and completion pct. and ran for 500+ yards and 4 TD’s. Pretty much a no-brainer.

  264. Joe Montana never lost a SB. Joe never let it come down to a FG to win it. Joe never threw a INT. So he sure as heck never threw a Pick 6 in SB. Joe Montana was twice the athlete Brady is too.
    Belichek admitted this year if Marshawn Lynch is given the ball Brady losses 3 SB’s.

  265. I have watched them both. I would take Montana, without hesitation. Brady’s last 2 Superbowls were gifts from the Seahawks and the Falcons, respectively. The Seahawks have a running back named “Beast,” who nobody can stop, and they pass from the one yardline? The Falcons have the ball on the 30, and all they need to do is kick a fieldgoal to put the game out of reach; and you drop back to pass, taking a sack? Patriots should have lost both games. I credit Brady for making plays at the end. I place an asterick by both wins, because he could not have won without help from ignorant opposing offensive coordinators. Brady is by far the “luckiest” QB in NFL history. We can all agree on that.

  266. Lynch was given the ball 24 times against the Patriots in the SB in 2015. The Patriots won.

    Which other Super Bowls did the Patriots go up against Lynch in? They certainly didn’t play the Bills in any playoffs when Lynch was with the Bills.

    So how would Lynch getting the ball against someone else have caused the Patriots to lose 3 Super Bowls?

    This sounds like a very strange thing for Belichick to say. I can’t find any comments like that from Belichick. Do you have a citation?

  267. “Brady is by far the “luckiest” QB in NFL history. We can all agree on that.”

    No, actually, we can’t. “ifs, shoulds and buts” are what you guys (need to) lean on.

    We lean on the actual outcome, which is the only thing that matters.

    Big, big, difference–and there’s no such thing as an “asterick”

  268. wvrocks says:
    Feb 13, 2017 8:34 PM
    I have watched them both. I would take Montana, without hesitation. Brady’s last 2 Superbowls were gifts from the Seahawks and the Falcons, respectively. The Seahawks have a running back named “Beast,” who nobody can stop, and they pass from the one yardline? The Falcons have the ball on the 30, and all they need to do is kick a fieldgoal to put the game out of reach; and you drop back to pass, taking a sack? Patriots should have lost both games. I credit Brady for making plays at the end. I place an asterick by both wins, because he could not have won without help from ignorant opposing offensive coordinators. Brady is by far the “luckiest” QB in NFL history. We can all agree on that.
    ==================================
    Many of us have seen both of them, and they stand on their own merits. It makes no sense to denigrate one QB by saying he received a gift or anything like that. The Falcons could have very easily missed the kick or Lynch could have been stopped. If he was so unstoppable, he would have had more than 13 rushing TD’s in the 2014 season.

    By the same virtue, you could say that the Bengals gave the 49ers a gift by choking on the 49ers 92 yard drive down the field to win the game, or that Montana really didn’t have to do anything when the 49ers held the Broncos to 10 points in a 55-10 rout. I would put an asterisk on that one, because the Broncos offensive coordinator was lousy. Sounds pretty dumb, doesn’t it?

  269. Well JJ ( Jealous Joe ) we know of three facts that are proven to be true:

    1.) You are not the Best

    2.) Tom Brady has risen above you

    3.) Tom Brady is still playing at an Elite Level amongst QBs – Past & Present.

  270. Montana is right – you can’t really compare players from different eras.

    But it IS fun to argue about, especially in these upcoming footballless months.

  271. Given the rule changes over the years, it’s tough to compare. So how about this, Montana was the best of his era…Brady is the best of this era.

  272. One played in an era when QBs were done by early 30s. The other played in an era where most QBs played as well as ever until their late 30s.

    ————————————–

    orrnumberfour says:
    Feb 12, 2017 5:05 PM
    Playoff wins:

    No. 1 all time: Brady – 25
    No. 2 all time: Montana – 16

    Its not even close.

  273. orrnumberfour says:
    Feb 12, 2017 5:05 PM
    Playoff wins:

    No. 1 all time: Brady – 25
    No. 2 all time: Montana – 16

    Its not even close.

    *****************************************************

    Again, we get back to that “era” thing in comparing QBs. The Montana years was a time with less playoff games. Now, there is an extra week of playoff games (Wild Card weekend) and, for the top seed and the next, a week off where they can get in better shape with injuries and such.

    Plus, the league was smaller and the conferences contained different teams. Montana faced a VERY strong Cowboy team in his conference that was a true “slugfest”. There are NO teams in the AFC that would qualify at the level of the Cowboys to “test” the Patriots as they did the 49ers.

    However, there is no doubt that Brady is the best today, but GOAT? That debate will go on and will NEVER be satisfied conclusively.

  274. Given the rule changes over the years, it’s tough to compare. So how about this, Montana was the best of his era…Brady is the best of this era.

    *****************************************************

    OMG!! You are expecting for the Bradyites to abandon their GOAT obsession to disappear???? You are wishing for miracles to happen!

  275. The defense for San Fran’s dynasty always gets overlooked.. They were a complete team!

    I’d give the edge to Brady over Montana, although Marino, Rodgers, Elway are up there…

  276. Montana would’ve been a perfect fit for Belichick’s system. If Montana had played in place of Brady the past 16 seasons in the weak ass AFC East, Patriots would be 7-0 in Superbowls all likely blowouts. Plus, with the Brady rule “or Montana rule in this case” opposing defenders would be forbidden from touching Montana’s legs, so there likely would’ve been even more Superbowl wins. Montana greater than Brady as is Bart Starr, both did much more in fewer seasons. Even Bradshaw faced better competition in his Superbowls, beating hall of famers Staubach and Tarkenton 3 times while facing legendary defenses.

  277. @steelercrazy

    Answer me this: after Montana, predictably, would have put the Patriots ahead at the end of the game (like Brady did in the 2 Super Bowl losses the Patriots had), just how exactly would he help the defense stop the other team from scoring?

    At least your name is half right.

  278. The only way to make the argument for Joe is to use a lot of “ifs”. If this…. If that…. If only….

    The way to make the argument for Brady is to use actual real numbers based on real performances.

  279. If Montana had the highest scoring offense in history he would have scored more than 14 points against the mediocre Giants.

    ————————————-

    ikeclanton says:

    Answer me this: after Montana, predictably, would have put the Patriots ahead at the end of the game (like Brady did in the 2 Super Bowl losses the Patriots had), just how exactly would he help the defense stop the other team from scoring?

  280. Ikeclanton Montana would have the Pats up big at the end of those games, most efficient big game QB there was. No way for the Pats defense to blow the lead.

  281. las0023 says:
    Feb 17, 2017 11:27 AM

    If Montana had the highest scoring offense in history he would have scored more than 14 points against the mediocre Giants.

    =============

    Not really, the Giants D-line would have swallowed Montana whole. He probably wouldn’t even be able to see over the line. Average linemen are much, much bigger and faster these days.

  282. steelercrazy says:
    Feb 17, 2017 12:50 PM
    Ikeclanton Montana would have the Pats up big at the end of those games, most efficient big game QB there was. No way for the Pats defense to blow the lead.

    Montana blew out 2 teams in his 4 wins and one of them was the heavy underdog Denver loss. That was also during an era when the NFC won about 14 of 15 Super Bowls–the disparity in talent was a wider gap between the leagues then. Also, this was prior to free agency and the salary cap which has taken parity to a level which would have turned over the talent on those 49er teams multiple times. Montana would have had to make do without most of the stars on those teams after a while, Montana had that luxury that Brady has never had.

    And you want to quibble over how much Brady beats teams by? He’s done it 5 times, with so many different casts of characters, no-names mostly, that the comparison is silly.

    What I’ll concede to Montana is that he had to get through some loaded NFC teams to get to the Super Bowl, where he an the 49ers usually outclassed the AFC opponent.

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