Brandon Marshall says Tom Brady is not the best ever

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Jets receiver Brandon Marshall is pushing back against the idea that Tom Brady has secured his place as the best player in NFL history.

Marshall said that despite Brady’s Patriots winning Super Bowl LI, giving him his fifth Super Bowl ring and fourth Super Bowl MVP award, he doesn’t consider Brady the best.

“He’s not the best player ever,” Marshall told NJ Advance Media. “No.”

Marshall said Texans defensive lineman J.J. Watt, who has won three Defensive Player of the Year awards and has also played some special teams and some offense, is a better all-around football player.

“We get caught up in that whole discussion, that when a quarterback is playing really well, he’s probably the best in the business, and we think he’s the best player,” Marshall said. “And that’s not true. When I think about player, I think about a guy that I can put at corner, safety, defensive end, a guy that I can put back on punt return, chase down kicks. That, to me, is the best player. J.J. Watt, that can play defensive end, tight end, put him at tackle, make him lose some weight and he can probably play linebacker and safety. That’s the best player.”

Who would Marshall call the best ever?

“Man, that’s tough,” Marshall said. “I would put J.J. Watt in that discussion. I would put Reggie White in that discussion. I would put Deion [Sanders] in that discussion. I would put Jerry Rice in that discussion.”

Marshall may be biased in favor of versatile players because he himself was a versatile player who played both safety and wide receiver in college at UCF. But in today’s NFL, quarterback is so much more important than any other position that it’s hard to make the case for a player at any other position being the best player. A non-quarterback like Jim Brown may top the list of the best players in football history, but in today’s NFL the best player and the best quarterback are the same.

176 responses to “Brandon Marshall says Tom Brady is not the best ever

  1. It doesn’t matter

    “Best ever” lists are the definition of subjective and they’re constantly changing by, year, decade, generation.

    Nothing more annoying than a group of people insisting their guy is the greatest ever and you can’t possibly see it differently than they do.

  2. He’s just trying to makeup for saying he’d want to play up there a few weeks back. Transparent media ploy.

  3. .
    Brady played one game versus the Texans this year. Watt played one game versus the Patriots this year. The results :

    Brady was 18/38 with 2 TDs in a 34-16 Patriots win in a playoff game that eliminated the Texans.

    Watt had 0 solo tackles and 2 assists in Houston’s 27-0 loss to Jimmy Garopollo and Jacoby Brissett.

    ” I think about a guy that I can put at corner, safety, defensive end, a guy that I can put back on punt return, chase down kicks. That, to me, is the best player. ”

    The player that most fits Marshall’s description of the best player is none other than the Patriots Julian Edelman.
    .

  4. Salty Brandon, you Jest! JJ is a beast, in his best 4 seasons he’s one of if not the best ever. Trouble is, he’d need to play another 10yrs like that to even put him in the discussion, and yet his back might not last another season.

  5. Best athlete? No, TB is not the most athletic football player ever. But the goal is winning football games, and Brady is the best at that. He did not win 5 SBs by himself, but he has done it over a long span with an ever-changing cast of players around him.

    This Steelers fan grudgingly admits he and the Pats over the past 15 years are the best ever. The Steelers 4 SBs in 6 years is still amazing, but the Pats sustained winning ways is almost unbelievable.

  6. Marshall makes some good points BUT in the modern era the QB position trumps all. Brady is number one and Joe Montana is number two. Argue number three all you want. Marino, Manning, Kelly, etc etc etc. 7 Super Bowls? Winning 5? No argument man. Brady is by far and away the best of them all. At least at his position. Now one could argue best player of all time. Jim Brown and Rice comes to mind. I’m sure there is a laundry list that could be cobbled together. It’s hard to argue against Brady at this point. Brady has done more with less than anyone else. No brainer really.

  7. The only reality is that Brandon Marshall will never be in the discussion for best ever.
    Oh, I’m sorry. Maybe one. Best dumbest comments.

  8. Anybody with eyes and common sense knows that Brady is not the best ever. Ask yourself honestly, if you went back in time and put Brady on a different football team would he have been a sure fire contender?

    Honestly?

    And that’s the power of myth folks.

  9. How have Brady and Watt stacked up head-to-head?

    Brady is undefeated, going 4-0, against Houston when Watt has played, averaging 36 points per game. In those 4 games, Watt has a total .5 sacks, a total non-factor. In fact, the Houston defense improved this year with Watt on IR for most of the season!

    Is Brandon Marshall in the concussion protocol?

  10. what is this love affair all about? He’s an excellent player but its debatable if he’s even the best of today’s defenders much less best player.

    I would not call Brady the best player, only the best QB of all. There is no best player. Too many variables. That only works in games where its you against the game, like golf or bowling or individual track events where time or distance is the determining factor.

    You can match QBs by stats but you can’t (intelligently) compare different positions.

    And anyone who brings Otto Graham into the discussion is dismissed.

  11. I love how he says if Watt could lose/gain some weight he probably play other positions too.

    Ummmm yeah, but Brandon he doesn’t, so what’s your point?

    If Brady ran a 4.2 40 he could probably play cornerback too, but he doesn’t. Watt is a TE as much as Brady is a punter so cmon man.

    What you’re describing is what you consider the best all around athlete who can do multiple things on the field which is fine. But as a poster stated, then Julian Edelman is the best football player ever I guess. A QB, CB, WR, kickoff and punt returner. Guess that settles the Brady vs. Montana argument; its Edelman.

  12. Brandon’s comments may be skewed by the fat that Brady beats his team’s brains in twice a year.

    Then he says JJ Watt? Seriously? The guy’s been in the league, what 3 years, and he’s one of the best players EVER? Reggie White and Deacon Jones are both chuckling over that comment…let’s talk about Watt in about 10 years.

  13. darkgoody says:
    Feb 11, 2017 6:18 AM
    Anybody with eyes and common sense knows that Brady is not the best ever. Ask yourself honestly, if you went back in time and put Brady on a different football team would he have been a sure fire contender?
    ———————
    Whilst people argue about the rules changing to be more of a passing game and protecting the QB etc, those rules affect all teams equally. The biggee changes are Cap & FA, because these rules specifically hurt the best teams the most, in order to enforce parity. In those glory Steeler and 49er years, those teams could stay together for an extended run if the owner paid them. But for just one example of Brady’s teams, less than half of them played in their last SB win 2yrs ago. Turnover in top teams is enormous, and in a team that’s stayed one of the top 3 or 4 for 16yrs, that turnover keeps on happening. Those great dynasties of the past lasted 6-8 years because a great group of guys stayed mostly together, Pats have lasted 16 with an ever changing cast. Even this year 3 starting QBs won games. Incredible. Best ever.

  14. In 15 years Brady has got his team;
    7 SB appearances
    5 SB championship
    4 SB MVP
    Brady is a 12x pro bowl QB
    Brady has thrown more than 300 more TD than interceptions (456-152)
    Brady teams have gone (183-52)

    The one constant to the organization as far as players go is Brady. He’s had many different receivers (cast offs, ageing veterans, undrafted FA) Moss, Tim Brown, Welker, Hogan, Edelman. This guy makes everyone better his football IQ is so much higher than everyone else.

    He is the best player in football. He came back this year after a 4 game suspension and threw for 28TD to only 2INT that’s just craziness

  15. I guess I will be in the minority on this, but I don’t know if Brady is the best QB of all time. I believe he played for probably the best coach ever. I ask you to switch him and Montana or Marino or Elway with coaches, teams and eras and who do you think has the most Super Bowl wins? Do you believe Brady would have more with the 1980’s Dolphins, 49ers or Broncos? Do you think Bill wins five with either of those three QB’s? We have seen NE and Belichick without Brady: 11-5 with Matt Cassell and 3-1 with Garrapolo. What has Brady accomplished without Bill?

  16. A great QB means you can win the Super Bowl.
    A great defensive player means you have one less
    piece to the puzzle to fill in.

    Who affects games more ?

    Houston doesn’t seem to fare so well when they meet up with New England.

  17. These G.O.A.T. debates are the most mentally deficient conversations I’ve ever been exposed to.

    Comparing stats is ALL the great thinkers who debate this stuff have to fall back on. Folks looking to engage already have their predetermined end route mapped out so arguing the point is sorta like peeing into the wind.

    The league has been around for nearing 100 years. In that time, the game has morphed from a game played by crazy men into what we have today — a mix of Arena, Madden and Powder-puff Football.

    I’m a fan of the game first, although I love my Packers. Still and the same, there is no way that any fan of today’s game can dispute the Brady/Bellichek Pats and Brady himself mastering that offense being the best in “today’s game”. 5 Championships in 16 years is pretty impressive stuff.

    In a different time … a different game …. you have a mix of teams with absolutely superior QB’s for a period of years … coming and going as long as the QB’s health allowed.

    In the 80’s of course, serious changes in the way the game was played gave us the 49’ers dynasty and Joe Montana — who I grew up watching dominate the league.

    70’s … well … Steelers with THAT defense.

    60’s – No dispute … Packers Starr wins his 5 World Championships in 7 years – still the gold standard for those who measure rings…

    BUT THEN… a fan of the game recognizes Otto Graham who as QB of the Browns won consecutive Championships with the old All American League…a league which was pooh-poohed by the established NFL until the NFL absorbed that League. Otto Graham brings his inferior team from an inferior league and kicks the NFL’s arse, winning the first “World Championship” in his first NFL season. Based on that criteria … Otto Graham has more Championships than any QB, won in a time where it was still a man’s game played by men under rules befitting men — not owners trying to protect their big dollar assets.

    Not taking a thing away from Tom Brady. In today’s pussified game, Tom is the best QB out there. No one, not even Aaron Rodgers, Manning 1 or 2, Brees, Favre … makes no diff … Brady is the best in this generations game…and you can’t put him into a time machine and transport him under center to the 75 Steelers to compare Tom today to Tom of someone’s dream yesteryear.

  18. Prior to last Sunday, no QB in NFL history had more super wins than Terry Bradshaw, yet I didn’t hear anyone saying he was the greatest player of all time. Not even the greatest QB. Everyone always talked about Joe Montana, but Montana, Bradshaw, and Brady were all tied with 4 SB wins. Is it because people are too young to remember Bradshaw? Do people take more into consideration than stats? Or, did some people actually watch Bradshaw play football and say that winning the most super bowls doesn’t automatically make you the best QB? Troy Aikman is next on the list with 3 wins. Does that automatically put him above all other QBs in history? Above Roger Staubach? Elway? Unitas? I’ve never seen anybody’s list that had Aikman or Bradshaw above those guys. Oops. We might have to go back and revise history. I saw all these guys except Unitas. My eyeballs tell me Montana was way better than all these other QBs, and there is a big gap between him and all others. My eyes aren’t lying, and I’m not wearing a 49ers jersey. I don’t even like the 49ers.

  19. MARSHALL MARSHALL MARSHALL!!!!!!

    Actually, your opinion doesn’t even count at your own position. Just shut up.

  20. Seriously, does he have to be the best ever? Who cares? Enjoy the ride (not me, of course). I like to bunch the great QB’s together and say they’re all great. It depends on what flavor you like. Brady is great at getting the most out of every player around him and his ability to play the game at high level for as long as he has is even more impressive. You can call him the greatest ever. I personally like John Elway, but Brady is just as great or even better if you that’s what you think.

  21. Tom Brady is good…and for clarification, I do consider him to possibly be the best ever. But you have to consider 2 things.

    He played with, what really cannot be debated against because of what he’s done in the free agent era, the best head coach of all time. You can argue about Brady…you cannot argue about Belichik. He is the absolute greatest coach to keep that team playing that well over such a long span of time. There is Belichik, then there are the rest of the coaches in history.

    Also, one season that Brady essentially missed, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassel. The same Matt Cassel that basically washed out of the league after leaving the Patriots for big money because he just wasn’t good.

    All I mean by this is that Tom Brady, arguably, isn’t even his own teams MVP. If you can plug in a 3rd rate QB and still win 11 games (granted they missed the playoffs that season, which is just bizarre at 11 wins), what does that say?

    I’m not saying Tom Brady isn’t good or that he won’t be considered the greatest of all time. I’m just saying that when you play for a guy who is the LEGIT BEST COACH EVER, how much is because of you and how much is because of the guy who took a QB most people forgot about to 11 wins?

    No one in here can argue that if Garoppolo was QB they wouldnt win 11 or more games. You can say it’s unlikely, but can Garoppolo really be worse than what Matt Cassel was? I suppose it’s possible…but I would hope for the Patriots, that’s not the case and he’s a little better.

    When evaluating any player, there are so many variables. No two players, even playing at the same exact time period, have the same variables surrounding them. Every situation in the NFL is unique…from who you have coaching you (including position coaches) to who you play against, who you play with, who you practice against, what your practice schedule is, etc etc etc. I could go on and on and on.

    So maybe Tom Brady is the best ever. But because of all of this, it will be debated forever too. It’s the usual ‘You can’t please everyone’ scenario.

  22. He has broken the records of all the most holy Montana, who had Jerry rice…For a decade..Tom Brady has no peers, do actually think the current group of NFL QBs,,could do what he does? Wilson, Cam, even Rodgers?
    Save your breath

  23. You can argue that Brady is not the best ever, but your argument sounds ridiculous when the player you name instead is JJ Watt.

    If he had said Lawrence Taylor, or Jim Brown or someone who is at least in the conversation he’d sound like he might have a clue what he’s talking about.

  24. Who the best player ever is always going to be subject to a fun debate. Even the criteria for judging that is subject to endless beaten.

    But the argument how Brady would have done on filthy talent rich teams of the past like the 49rs, steelers or packers isn’t much of a debate. If he had, there would not even be any discussion who the best QB was

  25. JJ Watt??? Wow. Houston just did way better without him.

    He can’t play offense. Taking a few snaps is meanigliess. Mike Vrwbel caught Super Bowl passes for TDs. Doesn’t mean a thing.

    Special teams? No. Just no.

    Let’s see Watt out in a passing pattern with Hopkins. I dont tbink so.

    If Marshall is trying to say that QBs aren’t proficient in the all around football skills and therefore shouldn’t be considered as the best football players all time, I can accept that. That’s his opinion.

    QB is the hardest position in all of sport in my opinion, but it doesn’t make it the most athletic so it is tough to compare Walter Payton to Peyton Manning.

    That argument isn’t directly related to Brady. Montana wasn’t going to be rushing the passer in his spare time either and if you go back to Otto Grqham the linemen were 220 and the same size as the QB.

    It’s long past the Bronco Nagurski time in football. It’s hard to compare across positions when the game is so specialized.

  26. Brandon has a squirrel brain and is incapable of saying anything intelligible. If and until that changes, I don’t see any reason why anyone would care in the least bit about what he thinks. Gawd help us all if he retires and CBS hires him to have an opinion to share.

  27. I see where he was headed with his argument but he lost me when he didn’t list Lawrence Taylor.

  28. Anybody with eyes and common sense knows that Brady is not the best ever. Ask yourself honestly, if you went back in time and put Brady on a different football team would he have been a sure fire contender?
    ———
    More hypotheticals. Would Brady have been as dominant in the 80’s? We’ll never know. Has Brady taken the situation that was given to him and absolutely dominated? Yes. My argument is based on fact. Yours is speculation. Which one is the myth?

  29. So everybody has an opinion on this, and it’s not unanimous. Big deal.
    But if you look at ex and present NFL coaches and players who chose Brady as the best you will have a long list of impressive names. On the other side you have a bitter Montana, Brandon Marshall and a bunch of anonymous haters. I am quite comfortable with the first list.

  30. Lol JJ Watt of all people? Good player but has disappeared in almost every big game he’s ever played in.

  31. critterkiller33 says:
    Feb 11, 2017 6:51 AM
    Brady & the Pats cheat. How can you call a proven cheater the best?

    4 53
    Report comment
    ______________________

    That’s why Jerry Rice isn’t in the conversation. He admitted using stickum.

  32. To be fair i think its the patriots system. Im not saying Brady isnt elite. But Matt Castle went 11-5 with that team and this year without Brady they were 3-1. Just sayin…

  33. Tom is only jealous of Brandon because he’d like have that Spanky and Our Gang haircut that Marshall has been sporting around.

  34. “And that’s not true. When I think about player, I think about a guy that I can put at corner, safety, defensive end, a guy that I can put back on punt return, chase down kicks.”
    =======================================
    What Marshall meant was that Tom Brady was not the best all around football player and that you could not win with a game with 11 Tom Bradys on offense and 11 on defense. I agree with him. Under Marshall’s definition, I would say that Bo Jackson is probably the greatest football player ever. You could say that Bo might not be able to pass and I would counter that Bo had a gun and one of the strongest arms I’ve ever seen in the outfield. Cam Newton might have an argument with Bo. I’ll take Bo.

    Marshall’s definition is not what most people are talking about though. Marshall likes to draw attention to himself and tries too hard to be a star in the media and on the field. The great ones are singularly focused on football. That’s Tom Brady. It’s not Brandon Marshall. THAT is why Bill Belichick would not put up with Marshall. The Jets sacrifice too much to put up with him as a distraction. For that reason, most people don’t take him seriously.

  35. Agreed…brady is just a system QB. Look how well others have done subbing there. He lacks the arm talent to be elite.
    —–
    Brett favre, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn, all successful QBs and all pretty good system QBs

    Joe Montana, Steve Young, also fairly good system QBs

  36. I used to like BM. Everyone cannot play QB at the NFL level therefore they only should be compared to each other. Brady has no peer. If you go back Montana was surrounded by talent and I never considered him even the best I’ve seen. He was just different. I loved watching him play because like Brady he knew how to win. He wouldn’t have won with who Brady played with though. He would be forgotten by now. No one is going to forget Brady because of how he made the players around him better which is a good quaterback’s best quality.

  37. Pfft. Someone’s obviously not familiar with Brady’s blazing open field speed. Play that tape of Brady juking Brian Urlacher that one time and tell me he couldn’t lead the league in rushing.

    Y’all crazy.

  38. Brandon couldn’t decipher and grasp the Patriots playbook any more than I can read a single sentence of Japanese. Of course he said that, the Patriots are his Daddy.

  39. I would take my chances on Brady in any era.

    We have all seen him transform his body over the years.

    He adjusts his game accordingly from week to week and from year-to-year.

  40. ricardorobertasq says:
    Feb 11, 2017 7:03 AM
    I guess I will be in the minority on this, but I don’t know if Brady is the best QB of all time. I believe he played for probably the best coach ever. I ask you to switch him and Montana or Marino or Elway with coaches, teams and eras and who do you think has the most Super Bowl wins? Do you believe Brady would have more with the 1980’s Dolphins, 49ers or Broncos? Do you think Bill wins five with either of those three QB’s? We have seen NE and Belichick without Brady: 11-5 with Matt Cassell and 3-1 with Garrapolo. What has Brady accomplished without Bill?
    ——–
    You’re really discrediting what quality coaches Bill walsh and Don Shula were aren’t you? I mean arguments can be made they are the best coaches ever, and Walsh created the West coast offense which Montana thrived in.

    Cassell 11-5
    Brady with same team 18-1, see the difference

    Pats 3-1 this year without Brady, shut out by Bills 12-0
    Brady drops over 40+ points on same Bills defense 1 month later, see the difference?

  41. .
    Marshall had 59 catches for 788 yards and 3 TDs for the 16 game season.

    Brady had 43 completions for 466 yards with 2 TDs and a two point conversion in the Super Bowl.

    What’s next? Darrelle Revis critiquing the tackling ability of Dontae Hightower?
    .

  42. LT was third-best all-time in an all-expert list a year or two ago. Brown was second and Rice first.

    The QB has to make the most detailed pre-snap reads, in-play adjustments, and execute afterwards. He also has to take the blame for losing.

    Posters have no idea when LT missed a read – but they pretend to know when a QB has missed one.

    At his best the QB has to know his players, the other team’s players, all alignments and tendencies, coach messaging and the meaning of the situation. Rice? Brown? LT?

    So, how many different players did Brady play with and against? Successfully? GOAT.

  43. Vikings fan here that doesn’t really like the patriots , but after this last game and all the other accomplishments Imo Tom Brady is hands down the best I’ve ever seen. Jj watt is not bringing his team back from 25 pts down in the SB . I’ll take all the rings and SB mvps over defensive Poy and a couple tds at TE. Not to mention he missed the first 4 games. Sounds like some sour grapes from Marshall

  44. Pats 3-1 this year without Brady, shut out by Bills 12-0
    Brady drops over 40+ points on same Bills defense 1 month later, see the difference?


    Ding ding ding we have a WINNAH! 🙂

    Don’t forget…3-1 without Brady would translate to 6-10 over 16 games. Any other opinion is trash.

    🙂

  45. hehateme2 says:
    Feb 11, 2017 6:52 AM
    Agreed…brady is just a system QB. Look how well others have done subbing there. He lacks the arm talent to be elite.

    —-

    That’s GOAT, 5 time World Champion, 4 time Super Bowl MVP, 2 time league MVP, holder of multiple league and Super Bowl records, and the winningest QB that ever played the sport system QB to you.

    Know your place boy and address the man properly!

    🙂

  46. I’m a Patriots fan, but put me in the group that says there’s no definitive way to rank the greatest ever. Different eras, different rules, different players (I mean let’s be honest that most NFL players these days are using cutting edge PEDs).

    If you made a group of all-time great QB’s, Brady would be on the list. But saying “This one is #1, this one is #2, etc” simply doesn’t work.

    I don’t understand people who get so worked up worrying about a ranking that really can’t be made.

  47. gizzmonic says:
    Feb 11, 2017 9:14 AM
    I was allways the last kid picked. that makes me the worst player. Brady is who you would pick first. That makes him the best. Simple
    __________________

    The irony there is Brady was originally picked pretty close to last. In a less whiny age he would be lauded as one of the greatest sports success stories of all time and held up as an example of what can be accomplished through hard work and perseverance. Sadly we no longer live in that kind of age.

  48. “terripet says:
    Feb 11, 2017 8:10 AM
    Brady on another team would be average he plays in a system that allows him to throw his three yard passes”

    You win..the absolute stupidest thing said here today. Did you even watch the SB? Brady threw for 469 yards…you don’t do that with 3 yard dinks and dunks.

    Did you see the winning drive? Right out of the gate, Brady throws 3 consecutive pass completions that gets them from the 25 to the the Falcon’s red zone. All three passes were some of the best passes of the game. A dime to Amendola, a dime to Hogan and a dime to Edelman. All three passes were thrown into tight coverage.

    He took the Pats into automatic field goal range in three plays before the Falcons could wake up.

    And you know what the difference was between the two teams….Matt Ryan was jumping all over the sidelines….Brady looked like a gunslinger…no emotion…just knew what he needed to do and did it!

  49. I don’t understand people who get so worked up worrying about a ranking that really can’t be made.
    ——–
    Yea it can. Most wins, most playoff wins, most division championships, most Conference Championships and Super Bowls, Most SB Championships, Most SB touchdowns, yards, competions, and more; the two greatest comebacks in Super Bowl history under the greatest duress in history.

    Numbers CAN be compared, 5 is more than 4, 7 is more than 4, on and on. And beyond the numbers, you saw what you saw on Feb. 5 2017, it was real and you’ll never see it again in your lifetime. The longest gut in sports history.

    Unarguably the greatest quarterback, greatest football player and greatest clutch performer in sports history. Just enjoy.

  50. There is no denying that TB 12 is an all time great, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to overlook being paired with the best coach to ever play the game. If people will not acknowledge this fact, it’s hard to have conversation or rational dialogue with these individuals.

    It is not a question of would BB have won Super Bowls without Brady, it’s more would Brady have even been in the league without BB.

    Given that Brady was taken in the 6th round, that is a perfectly legitimate question.

  51. I love Brady, but his division has made it easy for the Pats to advance in the playoffs.

    No competition for the most part from Buffalo, NYJ and Miami for many years. They get a Bye almost every year and when they haven’t…they’ve gotten bounced.

    I admire that they take advantage of this, but easier, is easier.

  52. It seems like Good Brandon got talked into letting his polar opposite, Angry Brandon, out of his cage again.

  53. I’m definitely not a Marshall fan but, in this instance, I might agree with him. Brady is the best QB to have ever played. He’s also the best “pressure” guy to play. He’s the best “leader” to have played….you get the drift.

    Calling someone the best player to have ever played is a useless argument. Guys mostly play one position throughout their careers and it’s impossible to compare a free safety to a running back.

  54. Thanks for that demonstration of ignorance coming from a player that has never won anything:

    15 years.
    How many division championships?
    How many AFC championships?
    How many Super Bowl championships?
    How many Super Bowl game winning drives?
    How many Super Bowl MVPs?

    Football is a team game, not a fantasy sport Brandon. And by the way, Brady isn’t finished yet.

  55. The system argument doesn’t hold water. All quarterbacks play in a system. It just so happens that Brady’s system is about winning championships and he’s fully mastered it. No other quarterback has ever mastered the system of winning in the NFL at the level of Brady.

    The different era argument doesn’t hold water either. If he’s the best of today’s era then he’s the best era, because despite anyone’s nostalgia about the leagues of the past, today’s NFL has the best players in history. Bigger, stronger, faster, more competitive, and playing under rules that enforce parity in ways past NFL and AFL and other leagues didn’t have.

    The best today is the best ever. The best at mastering a system is the best ever. The guy dominates year after year. Period.

  56. best ever ? in todays football “MAYBE ” , like Joe Montana said, ALL THOSE PLAYERS FROM YEARS BEGONE were better ballers than todays game.
    take brady an put him with a 1940-1975 team “he’d be killed ” ,take a player from the same era an bring him to todays football HE’D BE A SUPERMAN.

  57. terripet says:
    Feb 11, 2017 8:10 AM
    Brady on another team would be average he plays in a system that allows him to throw his three yard passes

    Like I’ve said before, you know how great someone is by the absolute garbage they spew in the face of it to soothe themselves, or simply just to hear themselves talk.

    The comments are getting dumber and dumber, guys.

    Try to keep it together for next year’s annual visit by the Patriots to the AFC Championship game and possibly the Super Bowl…yet again.

    It’s looking like it’s gonna be another long year for nitwit nation.

  58. JaminJake says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:04 AM
    …..
    It is not a question of would BB have won Super Bowls without Brady, it’s more would Brady have even been in the league without BB.

    Given that Brady was taken in the 6th round, that is a perfectly legitimate question.

    How is that a legitimate question?

    Of course Brady would have been in the league. That Pats kept 4 QBs on their roster Brady’s rookie season because they knew some team would snap him up if they tried to put him on the practice squad.

    John Unitas was not among the first 100 players the year he was drafted. Was he only great and in the league in his day because of his Coach?

    Bart Starr was the 200th player drafted in his draft, Was he only great and in the league in his day because of his Coach?

    Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd round. Only great and in the league in his day because of his Coach?

    What do you see as the cutoff draft point for a player only being in the league because of his coach?

    Are Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf better than Unitas, Starr, Montana and Brady because they were drafted in the 1st round unlike those other four HoF QBs?

    Where you are drafted has an almost immediate impact on your bank account, it should have no impact on the effort you make, and the success you have, on the football field. As proven by greats like Unitas, Starr, Montana and Brady; and failures like Russell and Leaf.

  59. Isn’t this the guy that lobbied for the return of Ryan Fitzpatrick?

    The debate is whether Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time, not the best player of all time. If you can’t compare the guy to quarterbacks from different eras, you certainly can’t compare him to players at different positions.

  60. Did Marshall go back and watch players who played before he was born to make him such an expert on this subject? I guarantee you I could name a dozen players from the 60’s alone who were great players and Marshall never heard of.
    Enough already with this stupid topic. Tom Brady is the best QB of his era by far and that’s all there is to it. Anything beyond that is purely speculation.
    And — those other guys he mentioned were great players, too. But they are not the greatest player ever either. There is no such thing because different eras have different rules and training methods, plus as we all know, plenty of performance enhancing drugs today.
    Deion Sanders always amazes me that people rank him as one of the best DB’s ever. Yeah, he could cover and yeah, he could do magical things with the ball in his hands via interception or after a punt or kick. But he never made a tackle in his life and the last time I checked, that’s part of football. He looked like a matador whenever a big ball carrier came at him. Ole!!
    He was not better than Darrell Green was, for one. Green was every bit as fast and he could do it all. Deion is a product of all the media hype he got from ESPN and other venues which players from the past didn’t get. His showboating did more to elevate his play than what he did on the field. Don’t get me wrong — he was a great cover corner. But he played the media like a fiddle and they went all in on it. And he is still doing that.
    It’s just stupid to put J.J. Watt’s name in the discussion, too. The same for Reggie White and Jerry Rice. The reason? QB is by far the most difficult position to play. Plus, Tom Brady has been consistently great with constant changes in personnel around him.
    When I see J.J. Watt, Reggie White, Deion Sanders, or Jerry Rice play QB at a high level, I’ll change my mind. But it would never have happened in a million years.
    J.J. Watt. What a joke to even mention him as being a candidate for best ever. He has two jobs. Stop the run and go get the QB. I’m not slighting him at all. He is great at what he is asked to do. But he is replaceable, whether anyone believes that or not. When Tom Brady finally hangs them up, it will take a miracle for the Pats to find someone who is even close to being as good as he is.
    I am not a Patriots fan, by the way. I’m a Packers fan. But the truth is the truth.
    Here’s one that Marshall doesn’t even realize. J.J. Watt isn’t even the best defensive end who ever played. Reggie White was better and Bruce Smith, Deacon Jones, Gino Marchetti, Doug Atkins, Mean Joe Green, Richard Dent. Willie Davis, and Lee Roy Selmon were every bit as good as Watt is, to name a few.
    And Rich “Tombstone” Jackson, who played DE for Oakland, Denver, and the Browns in the late 60’s and early 70’s before a bad knee injury ended his career, might have been better than all of them. Paul Zimmerman, long time NFL sports writer for Sports Illustrated, said he never saw a better defensive end and pass rusher than Jackson. That opinion was shared by many offensive tackles who had to go against him. Unfortunately, he had the misfortune of playing the majority of his career on bad teams in a market that didn’t get much coverage in those days. If I had to rank players who should be in the Hall Of Fame but aren’t because their careers got derailed by injury, Jackson would be #1.
    Jackson was 6’3″ and about 260 lbs. He was lightning quick and as strong as an ox. He once broke the helmet of a Packers offensive lineman with a head slap (which was done all the time in those days, by the way).

  61. It’s time to put all this “system” talk away. Every team and every QB plays within a system.

    And just maybe BB feels really blessed to have a QB for all these years that still works out with his WR’s in the off season. Talk to any of teammates and they will say that he is the most committed player in practice and in the off season.

    I’m sure Brady is very happy to have played for BB the past 17 years, but did you ever think that BB thinks that Brady is like having an extra 3 assistants.

    Brady is just as much a coach as he is a player in the Patriot System.

  62. Team accomplishments are not individual accomplishments. Especially when you are playing on a team with one of the best coaches of all time. I’d sooner call Belichick the greatest of all time than Brady. He has shown he can get it done with anyone.

  63. Asked at SB who he would take in 1 game to decide title – himself or Montana – humble Brady didn’t hesitate. “Joe.”

  64. bigdaddystyle says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:08 AM
    I love Brady, but his division has made it easy for the Pats to advance in the playoffs.

    No competition for the most part from Buffalo, NYJ and Miami for many years. They get a Bye almost every year and when they haven’t…they’ve gotten bounced.

    I admire that they take advantage of this, but easier, is easier.
    —————————————————————

    This idea has been debunked time and time again. The win percentage of the division was very solid compared to other divisions this year. Remember Miami made the play-offs. Its not a slouch division nor has it ever been a gimmie. The problem is the Pats are so good they are by and large the reason those teams look sub par. If you put Pats in another division it would be the same story.

  65. phrancheyez says:
    Feb 11, 2017 7:22 AM

    Also, one season that Brady essentially missed, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassel. The same Matt Cassel that basically washed out of the league after leaving the Patriots for big money because he just wasn’t good.

    ====================================

    That 2008 Patriots team was *LOADED*. 11-5 with that team is actually not that good a result.

    In 2010, Matt Cassel went 10-5 with 27 TD 7 Int, and took KC to the playoffs. He then got hurt and was never the same again.

  66. You can’t compare the way the game is played today and in the past, or the players. it’s the old apples and oranges argument. Unfortunately baseball had it’s PEDS era and football has entered it’s PERC era. [ performance enhancing rule change ] era. My God, Ronnie Lott wouldn’t even be allowed to play today. let alone Butkus, LT, Lanier, Lambert just to name a few, very few.

  67. The fact that Brady isn’t the most athletic makes the case for his greatness. His lanky build and speed was what U of M used to favor Drew Henson, but look how that turned out.

  68. bigdogsolec says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:35 AM
    best ever ? in todays football “MAYBE ” , like Joe Montana said, ALL THOSE PLAYERS FROM YEARS BEGONE were better ballers than todays game.

    ===========================

    Objectively, across all sports, athletes today are bigger, stronger and faster than those of “years begone”.
    They have access to better nutrition, training facilities, medical care, coaching analytics, traveling conditions, etc.

    Yet you labor under the misapprehension that football players of today are inferior “ballers” somehow .
    The 2016 Browns would kill Otto Graham’s 1955 Browns.

  69. Comparing athletes from different eras, different positions, different sports is an exercise in futility. Who knows, if the NFL gets the Tuck Rule play right, Raiders beat Pats, no first Super Bowl, Bledsoe plays following year, maybe Brady doesn’t become BRADY. Lots of very talented athletes never reach the level expected of them…could it be because of the luck of the draw (where they played, coaching staff, organization, etc)?

  70. when JJ watt can be JJ watt for more than 5 seasons, you can talk about JJ watt. Until then only JJ watt can talk about JJ watt.

  71. Joe Montana played at 6’2″, 205 pounds.

    And yet people in here say Brady couldn’t take the pounding the QBs did in the 1980s.

    Montana wasn’t taking any pounding – he was running around like Johnny Manziel and making quick passes in Walsh’s west coast offense.

  72. When the Pats made it 28-20 with less than six minutes left in the game, I knew it was over. Matty Ice? Forget it. Moments like these are exactly when you want Tom Brady as your QB. And he’s not done yet.

  73. bigdaddystyle says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:08 AM

    I love Brady, but his division has made it easy for the Pats to advance in the playoffs.
    ———————————

    Montana played in a creampuff division also. Probably creamier and puffier than the AFC East is today.

  74. philliephaninva says:
    Feb 11, 2017 11:30 AM

    Brady is the greatest cheating, whining, crybaby player of all time! Bank it.
    ————————————————————–
    I’m sorry, we’re too busy to respond to your comments as we are watching the Patriots SB marathon today in which they are all showing all 5 Brady SB wins in their entirety, back to back to back to back to back.

  75. Just watched the NFL Films video of Brady’s first SB run. They refer to the AFC East as the “toughest division in football.” The reason you think it is soft is precisely because of how good Brady has been over the years. You are making his point for him.

  76. As a Pats fan, I couldn’t care less whether or not people think Brady is the GOAT.

    Just enjoying another Super Bowl victory for the team, and the delicious tears of jealous losers like Brandon Marshall.

  77. It is impossible to rate who is the best player ever. There is no matrix for these comparisons. If anything I think we can agree Tom is the most Acomplished qb in nfl history.

  78. Here is my list
    Best arm Dan Marino
    Best awareness Peyton Manning
    Best running qb Michael Vick
    Most creative Bret Favre
    Most accomplished Tom Brady
    Best leader Roger Stalbauck
    Most revolutionary Johnny u
    Best under pressure Joe Montana

  79. His opinion is actually discriminatory against QBs. No coach in their right mind is going to have their QB play defense or return kicks. He’s basically saying the best players are the best players who able to play elsewhere due to the position they play and are athletic (I dont think athleticism as a bonus unless it is used properly). This works against QBs and OL. Anyways has he ever seen Brady punt or catch a pass on a fake? He can do decent amount for just a “QB.”

  80. JJ Watt was a pub release Bob McNair needed something to advertise when his team went south so up stepped JJ and they gave him those DMVP s so boob could promote his team

  81. Many of us who love football tend to put Brady at the top of the list of known cheaters. People who didn’t cheat would never accept penalties/suspensions, no matter what. Since Brady admitted that he cheated by accepting his suspension, I’ll just put him on that list and be done with it. He and Belicheat have practically written the book on cheating in the modern era. That’s why, nationally speaking, the Pats are the most hated team in the NFL. They will always have an unannotated asterisk next to their tainted Super Bowl “victories.”

  82. Without reading, I’m sure this comment section is full of whiny Tom Brady fans who aren’t from anywhere near Boston and will find a new team once Tom retires. These fans usually consist of 80% millennials, and they are probably also Warriors fans from 2015-present and Cubs fans as of last year.

  83. best NFL players I’ve seen
    1. Brady
    2. Rice
    3. D. Sanders
    4. Adrian Peterson
    5. Jim Lachey I think he gave 2 sacks in 6 years while facing the Bears Giants and Eagles

  84. Cassell 11-5
    Brady with same team 18-1, see the difference
    ________

    Brady went 10-6 with the “same team” the year after Cassel, but let’s not use that year amirite?

  85. That, to me, is the best player. J.J. Watt, that can play defensive end, tight end, put him at tackle, make him lose some weight and he can probably play linebacker and safety. That’s the best player.

    ———–

    And make Brady a little taller, a little more muscular, jump a little higher and he WILL be the best player. His attitude and will to win would’ve made him successful at any position.

  86. bigdaddystyle says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:08 AM
    I love Brady, but his division has made it easy for the Pats to advance in the playoffs.

    No competition for the most part from Buffalo, NYJ and Miami for many years. They get a Bye almost every year and when they haven’t…they’ve gotten bounced.

    I admire that they take advantage of this, but easier, is easier.
    ====================

    Easier than what? What part of a .786 win % in division and a .762% out of it is hard to understand? What would put it in perspective for you? The last 4 years running the Pats have lost the same number of games in 6 to the division as they have in 10 to the rest of the league. All divisions are .500 against themselves yet the AFCE has won more games per team than any other over the last 10 years. Division winners on average for the past 10 years have lost 1.363 games per year in division, New England has lost 1.5. Not sure what metric it takes to make people look beyond what the talking heads say but I am sure the other teams in the AFCE would appreciate some help dealing with NE.

  87. I don’t much care about GOAT talk but find it bizarre that the haters keep trying to diminish Brady’s accomplishments and talent. It’s pathetic.

    Brady has dominated his sport to such a degree that owners of other teams, the commissioner, league officials, and certain members of the media conspired to figuratively kneecap him. Thaink about it, Roger Goodell is the equivalent of Tanya Harding’s boyfriend with more breeding.

    When has a league ever targeted their best player because butt hurt owners of other franchises were sick of him winning.

  88. If you guys want to say something like hardest working ever, sure. Best practice habits and off field routine, no problem. He just isn’t physically talented enough to warrant conversation as greatest ever. More power to him. Still a sixth rounder.

  89. I’ll credit Joe Montana for never throwing a pick or pick-6 in a super bowl game, but he played in four games in comparison to Brady appearing in seven of them. Look at how many pass-attempts Joe Montana had in his super bowl games in comparison to Brady. Montana had 122 in four games whereas Brady has 309 pass-attempts in total. If a quarterback throws the ball more often, they’ll be more likely to throw INTs. Montana was benched in the 1987 divisional round game, whereas Brady has never been benched in a playoff game.

    The Niners even lost 49-3 in a divisional round playoff game with Montana. Brady and the Pats have never lost one playoff game or let alone, not even one football game by a blowout like that. I’ll admit that Joe Montana was the better super bowl quarterback, but none of those Niner teams with Montana ever came back from a 25 point deficit in a playoff game to win. They lost to the Giants 49-3 in the 1986 divisional round. To add to that, when did Montana appear in eleven conference championships and win 25 playoff games with the same QB. Terry Bradshaw also went 4-0 in SBs, but he’s not recognized on anyone’s Top 5 Greatest QBs of All Time list because of him throwing 212 TDs-210 INTs.

    Montana never won a fifth super bowl ring, a fourth SB MVP award, or lead the league in TD passes four times in his NFL career like Brady. Brady was the first quarterback in NFL history to win that MVP award by a unanimous vote. Montana has four playoff one-and-dones whereas Brady has currently two playoff one-and-dones. Brady has never been benched in a playoff game. The Niners lost to the Giants three times in the post-season.

    Montana and the Niners lost to the Giants in 1985, 1986, and 1990. They also lost to the Cowboys in the 1992 post-season as well. Joe Montana led the league in TD passes just twice whereas Brady led the league in TDs four times in his NFL career so far.

  90. I think about a guy that I can put at corner, safety, defensive end, a guy that I can put back on punt return, chase down kicks. That, to me, is the best player.

    _____

    This describes absolutely no football player ever.

  91. darkgoody says:
    Feb 11, 2017 4:35 PM

    If you guys want to say something like hardest working ever, sure. Best practice habits and off field routine, no problem. He just isn’t physically talented enough to warrant conversation as greatest ever. More power to him. Still a sixth rounder.

    It’s a fact: JJ Watt can bench more than Brady so he CAN’T be the best ever.

    Brady is also not the fastest, tallest, shortest, heaviest, lightest, whitest, blackest, or ugliest, in the NFL.

    So Brandon Marshall may have a point.

  92. “Since Brady admitted that he cheated by accepting his suspension, I’ll just put him on that list and be done with it. He and Belicheat have practically written the book on cheating in the modern era. That’s why, nationally speaking, the Pats are the most hated team in the NFL.”

    Fans like you are the reason why the Patsies have so many fans. It wouldn’t surprise me in the very least if the Pats go on to win another championship just to get fans like yourself even more angry. Brady lost on a technicality based on what was agreed to in the CBA. There was no evidence of any wrongdoing, but that will clearly never change your mind. Brady even testified under oath in court.

    The league refusing to investigate the Steelers for having footballs below 12 PSI in their game against the Giants this past season vindicates the Pats. No one cared about the PSI inside of footballs until it concerned the greatest quarterback of all time. The Pats are the most hated, but I’m sure they’re also the most loved just like the Cowboys from the nineties. It’s not one or the other.

  93. jaysayz says:
    Feb 11, 2017 1:32 PM

    Here is my list
    Best arm Dan Marino
    Best awareness Peyton Manning
    Best running qb Michael Vick
    Most creative Bret Favre
    Most accomplished Tom Brady
    Best leader Roger Stalbauck
    Most revolutionary Johnny u
    Best under pressure Joe Montana

    Results, comrade, it’s about results.

  94. Is Brady the best QB ever? Yes! No doubt. No more discussion needed.

    Is Brady the best football player ever? Beats me! Or probably not. Not JJ either! Both are great at their positions but I don’t see how we ever say one guy is the best player ever. Too many positions with varying skills required.

    As for Brandon Marshall…who cares?

    PS: Did Montana put Marshall up to this?

  95. Could 1 unbiased person explain to me why they think that Brady would not have excelled during the 70’s 80’s or 90’s.

    He is a not a new age QB, Brady is a prototype pocket passer that shreds bigger, faster and more complicated defenses than those of their Eras. If anything, he should not be able to dominate like they way he does in today’s game! He doesn’t Dab like Newton or scramble and throw Hail Marys like Aaron, he just wins at a .780 rate with a 3-1 Td/int 7 AFCC wins & of course 5 SB
    You aren’t being disloyal to your team by admitting that a guy from a rival is great.
    .
    PS if you really think he is a cheater, that is just your way of telling the world that you make excuses for every failure in your life!

  96. Patriots as a team wins games, Brady is just the most visible part of that team. Brady along with great defense, great special teams, great offensive line, great running game, great coaches, great tight ends, great receivers, great system win games. If Belichick trades Brady to any other team tomorrow, he will not repeat the success he has had at New England. Ditto Jimmy G. and Brissette. If you want to label Brady then just call him the greatest SYSTEM QB of all time.

  97. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    Feb 11, 2017 6:06 PM

    Patriots as a team wins games, Brady is just the most visible part of that team. Brady along with great defense, great special teams, great offensive line, great running game, great coaches, great tight ends, great receivers, great system win games. If Belichick trades Brady to any other team tomorrow, he will not repeat the success he has had at New England. Ditto Jimmy G. and Brissette. If you want to label Brady then just call him the greatest SYSTEM QB of all time.

    Correction the GOAT is what to call him. Stop pretending to be a pats fan

  98. In the future, a best-selling movie will FOREVER PRESERVE the disgraceful actions of the current NFL office and forever preserve the excellence of this Great Football Team.

    Since the end of the first half of the game in question: Brady 81 Touchdowns, 15 Interceptions; 2 AFC Championship WINS; 2 Super Bowl WINS; and helped his team win enough games to play in the 2016 AFC Championship game.

    New England Patriots and Tom Brady:

    PRIOR to DEFLATEGATE: 5 AFC Championships WINS and 3 Super Bowl WINS.

    AFTER DEFLATEGATE (3 seasons): 2 AFC Championships WINS and 2 Super Bowl WINS.

    DEFLATEGATE FACTS:
    During 19 January, 2015 (day after AFC Championship Game), an official letter sent to Mr. Kraft from the senior vice president of NFL operations (David Gardi) informed the Patriots that an investigation will be conducted.

    1. FACT: On page two, the letter states the following: … “each of the Colts’ game balls that was inspected met the requirements set forth.”

    That statement turns out to be totally not true. Page 8, of the Wells report confirms that 3 of the 4 Colts’ footballs were in fact deflated. Who from the NFL office directed to stop testing the Colts’ remaining 8 footballs???

    2. FACT: The NFL has finally admitted that they DID NOT know anything about the Ideal Gas Law (IGL). That admission is incredible!

    3. FACT: Brady was found guilty by the NFL office based on “ASSUMPTIONS AND DATA THAT IS UNCERTAIN” (quote Wells Report).

    4. What would you do if someone in your family was accused and deemed guilty based on “ASSUMPTIONS AND DATA THAT IS UNCERTAIN” (quote Wells Report)? Could you accept that???

    5. Why wouldn’t Brady turn his cell phone in? …… Would you provide your cell phone to folks that you know are not truthful (19 Jan. letter, etc.)???

    6. FACT: NFL announces creation of PSI rules just hours before leaking story that Brady “destroys” phone. Thus, the public quickly forgets the NFL admits they had no PSI rules or knowledge of the Ideal Gas Law.

    This is AMERICA and King Roger and Troy Vincent are NOT bigger than our great Country!

  99. He’s right. Sammy Baugh is the greatest of all time. He was light years ahead of the QBs of his day and his QB rankings stand up to this day. He was one of the best punters ever. And he played defense too. He satisfies all criteria.

  100. With all due respect to Brady I think Montana and Steve Smith have it right. Brady is among a small group of the best to ever play the game. but to say he is the GOAT is silly. There are just too many variables and factors to consider. The closest anyone can come to a conclusion about some athlete being the best ever is in the running sports or golf; fastest time, the fewest holes, all accomplished by ONE person. Even then there are things like technology and science that were unavailable to other athletes of the past.
    These “GOAT” narratives are what fans and writers NEED to keep a sport relevant and interesting for sports where “newness/freshness” has long given way to same old, same old. Looking back at records and “the greats” with nostalgia only works for awhile till a new generation hungers for their record breakers, their “legends” or else what do they have? The same old and the same old… It’s a contrivance really just like fantasy football is a contrivance to instill interest in a game some would otherwise not have any interest in.

  101. PFT loves the Steelers says:
    Feb 11, 2017 2:33 PM
    Cassell 11-5
    Brady with same team 18-1, see the difference
    ________

    Brady went 10-6 with the “same team” the year after Cassel, but let’s not use that year amirite?

    ==================================

    Brady was coming off ACL surgery. Still threw for 28 TDs vs 13 INT, and had a QB rating of 96.2

  102. Way dodge the subject Brandon! So let me clarify it for you. TOM BRADY IS THE BEST QB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. No debate. No asterisks. No doubt. And I lived to see all of them who could reasonably stake a claim. From the great ones like Bart Starr-Johnny Unitas-Terry Bradshaw-Jim Kelly-Ken Stabler-Dan Marino-John Elway-Peyton Manning; They are all great. But they are fighting for second place behind Brady (who still might add more titles to his unbelievable lore). This is simply no contest anymore.

    And Brandonis a very poor choice to even make this claim. Because he has never even sniffed a playoff, while calling the likes of Jay Cutler, Ran Fitzpatrick and Chad Henne “great ones”.

  103. o0omorriso0o says:
    Feb 11, 2017 8:24 AM
    To be fair i think its the patriots system. Im not saying Brady isnt elite. But Matt Castle went 11-5 with that team and this year without Brady they were 3-1. Just sayin…

    ——–

    You mean the team Brady went undefeated with the year before winning 5 more games on the season and making the Super Bowl?

    Oh… that team.

    Or do you mean this year when Brady went 14-1 and won the Super Bowl.

    Oh… that season.

    Brady is King of the Castle (Cassel).

  104. JaminJake says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:04 AM
    There is no denying that TB 12 is an all time great, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to overlook being paired with the best coach to ever play the game. If people will not acknowledge this fact, it’s hard to have conversation or rational dialogue with these individuals.

    It is not a question of would BB have won Super Bowls without Brady, it’s more would Brady have even been in the league without BB.

    Given that Brady was taken in the 6th round, that is a perfectly legitimate question.
    ———–
    OK, I have seen way too many posters arguing this kind of point, ironically nobody ever talks about “what if you take Montana off the 49ers without Rice”. This argument is a double edged sword and this is how I would go about settling it.

    Put all of the best QBs from all generations on this years Cleveland Browns team and who wins the most games?
    I think Brady would perform greater than Montana, Manning, Elway etc. in this hypothetical situation.

    After watching that 25 point comeback in the SB how can you not crown the king?

  105. Here’s what I hope happens. Bill Bellichick coaches a team after Brady retires. Or. Tom Brady plays for another team near retirement. Then we will know for sure…

  106. Who had the biggest impact on the games they played in, and on the game itself (by leading to new styles of defense/offense)?

    I’m a Niners fan, but you have put Lawrence Taylor into the discussion as well.

  107. Don’t know why winning and super bowl wins all get pinned on one player anyways. Yes superstars contribute to winning in a major way, but if a great player is drafted by an inept organization that can’t be their fault. As a Rams fan I watched Steven Jackson do amazing things, only for him never to experience a winning season. Does that make him a bad player? No. Football is a team game and it’s impossible to pin one player as the greatest ever. Too many positions and too many different components around them that determine success.

  108. In Super Bowl 49 if beastmode had scored with 20-plus seconds we all know on the ensuing kickoff Tom Brady would have been the return man and would have returned the kickoff the length of the field for a touchdown and the Patriots would still be victorious.

  109. m8gaman says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:18 PM
    JaminJake says:
    Feb 11, 2017 10:04 AM
    There is no denying that TB 12 is an all time great, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to overlook being paired with the best coach to ever play the game. If people will not acknowledge this fact, it’s hard to have conversation or rational dialogue with these individuals.

    It is not a question of would BB have won Super Bowls without Brady, it’s more would Brady have even been in the league without BB.

    Given that Brady was taken in the 6th round, that is a perfectly legitimate question.
    ———–
    OK, I have seen way too many posters arguing this kind of point, ironically nobody ever talks about “what if you take Montana off the 49ers without Rice”. This argument is a double edged sword and this is how I would go about settling it.

    Put all of the best QBs from all generations on this years Cleveland Browns team and who wins the most games?
    I think Brady would perform greater than Montana, Manning, Elway etc. in this hypothetical situation.

    After watching that 25 point comeback in the SB how can you not crown the king?

    ______________________________________

    Johnny Unitas would win as many or more than anyone in your hypothetical situation.

    And the best coach ever was Vince Lombardi. He was 9 and 1 post season and won 5 championships in 7 years, and lost a 6th one on the last play of the game when his FB was tackled inside the 10 yard line as time ran out.

    Plus, he won a state championship as head coach of a high school basketball team at a small Catholic school in NJ — the only championship in the school’s history. Lombardi was a teacher there and was asked to take over the basketball team. He knew very little about basketball at the time, and studied books at a library to learn about it.

    And — he coached one year with the Redskins in 1970 before cancer took his life and had them at .500 when they hadn’t had a winning season in years. Sonny Jurgensen, his QB, says to this day it was the best year of his NFL life and says he learned more from Lombardi in that one year than all the other coaches he played for combined.

    Lombardi was also an assistant coach for Army from 1949 to 1953. In the spring of ’51, there was a scandal at West Point and 43 of their 45 players were dismissed. Lombardi, who was the “O” line coach, took a bigger role in coaching them after that, and in 1953 they were 7-1-1.

    Then he became an assistant coach with the NY Giants, running their offense. The Giants had been 3 and 9 when Lombardi joined them. Three years later, with Lombardi running the offense and another great coach (Tom Landry) running the defense, the Giants beat the Bears 47 to 7 to win a championship. Along the way, Lombardi invented “zone blocking” for “O” lineman. Ironically, the head coach of that Giants team said the only thing he had to do as head coach was make sure there was air in the footballs.

    He had played guard and tackle on the Fordham Rams “Seven Blocks of Granite” “O” line in spite of the fact that he was only 5’8″ and 180 lbs. In his senior year, they were 5-0-2 before losing their last game of the season 7-6 and missing out on going to the Rose Bowl. Lombardi was also sent in to play the defensive line on goal line stances.

    Belichick is a great head coach, but there’s a reason Vince Lombardi’s name is on the Super Bowl trophy. If Lombardi were coaching today, Bill Belichick would be missing a few of his rings.

  110. Ok . lets talk about reality . If you asked Tom Brady if he thought he was the best football player ever ? We all should know what his answer will be . ” All I want to do is win football games ” . He could give a rats arse who is or who isn’t the greatest or the best ever . I bet when all is said and done , his career is over and he sets even more records , it still will not matter , for he only plays to win . In my mind Tom Brady is the GOAT , no debate is necessary .

  111. Hey Pats fans, he’s the best QB ever – just accept that and quit trying to get more and more attention than what he’s already getting. Of course they would then try to spin him as the best football player ever, which is a complete joke. But that’s Boston for you – can’t go a day without whining about lack of respect and even when your QB gets the respect you want more and more of it.

  112. Marshall just named who is the most “versatile” athlete. This is so frustrating these days listening to these dopes on TV. Oh i know! I’ll dodge the question by changing the definition of the question! Even though everybody knows what this question was asking, I’ll change the meaning to something that fits my bias!

    His argument reminds me of Max Kellerman, who decides to change the definition of “greatest ever” to something that is not even remotely close to what 99.99999999999% of the population knows what is being asked?

    For instance:

    “what’s the greatest fruit of all time”

    normal people: (name a fruit)

    Max kellerman and Brandon Marshall: “well, to me, a fruit is really just something that has carbon, and to me, if you want the best thing with carbon, I’d go with a diamond.”

  113. Like most people who hate Brady and Belichick, if those two guys were magically transferred to your home team you would instantly lose all hatred for them and see what everyone else sees–the statistical accomplishments in the modern era.

    Even Marshall would be singing Brady’s praises if he played just one year for TB12.

    This my friends is Aesop’s “sour grapes” syndrome at its best.

  114. Whats up with your man crush with Brandon? First you take the arrest meter down because of him and then you give space to a “no win anything” locker room cancer? His opinion doesn’t mean crap.

  115. Rolo Tomassi says:
    Feb 11, 2017 5:32 AM

    How about Brady is the best winner
    Leader Team player.
    Brandon will say anything for a headline
    ——————————————–
    If we’re going to use “Greatest winner” ever then that goes to Bart Starr with 5 NFL championships and 2 Super Bowls. End thread.

  116. My thinking is Brandon Marshall should sign with the Patriots for a couple of years and see what Brady does for his career. Recall when a “washed up” Randy Moss was traded to the Pats for a 4th round draft choice and put up hall of fame numbers for 2 years with New England. Maybe the same thing happens to Marshall and then he changes his mind about Brady? It’s a thought.

  117. Best all-around player who truly embodied the greatest combination of pure athletic skill, prowess, will, power, versatility, sacrifice, and heart – not to mention the embodiment of character that once defined the ideal NFL player:

    Walter Payton.

    There’s a reason the NFL’s “Man of the Year” Award still bears his name.

  118. Come on everybody you guys know Brandon is going to say that this guy is his team’s rival of course he’s going to say that I’m a Jets fan and I can’t stand Brady but deep down inside even I know he’s the best quarterback in the game hands down

  119. Brady:

    Vs. the AFC East: 66-20 (.767)

    Vs. the AFC North: 25-7 (.781)

    Vs. the AFC South: 33-6 (.846)

    Vs. the AFC West: 22-14 (.611)

    Vs. the NFC East: 14-5 (.737)

    Vs. the NFC North: 14-3 (.824)

    Vs. the NFC South: 13-3 (.813)

    Vs. the NFC West: 7-4 (.636)

    Doesn’t look like it matters who he plays against.

    The only team he has a losing record against overall is Denver, at 6-9, but Montana’s record vs. Denver was 2-5.

    This was also from an article in August, so obviously he’s improved in all divisions.

  120. swagger52 says:
    Feb 16, 2017 6:19 PM

    Brady as best ever is like saying A Rod is best ever. There is always an asterisk. In fact, with Brady there are about 3 asterisks.

    There’s a HUGE difference between using PEDs and whatever you think Brady has done.

  121. On the other hand – it’s February, the draft is months away, so without any football to watch or anticipate we have just about nothing to do except

    ARGUE

    Let’s have at it.

    The most important quality for a QB to have is leadership – the ability to inspire his teammates with less than 2 minutes on the clock in the 4th quarter, they’re behind by more than 3 points and the whole season is on the line. (Brady has done that twice in the last 2 SBs)

    DeShaun Watson of Clemson against Alabama in the NC game. I’ve seen him in a few other games and he HAS that ability.

    I know he throws more interceptions than he should, but that can be fixed.

    He’s only 6′ tall – Joe Montana.

    Discuss

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