Orlando Pace still bitter about the Patriots, 16 years later

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It’s been 16 years since the Patriots’ dynasty began with an upset win over the Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI. It’s been 10 years since the Boston Herald reported that the Patriots taped the Rams’ walk-through practice the day before that Super Bowl. And it’s been nine and a half years since the Boston Herald apologized for that report and said it was false.

But through all that passage of time, many Rams players have remained angry at the Patriots. The latest is Hall of Fame left tackle Orlando Pace, who said this morning on PFT Live that he still doesn’t like the Patriots and still wonders if their superb game plan was aided by cheating.

“There’s a little bit of suspicion there. I think guys all feel that way,” Pace said. “They had a pretty solid game plan for us, so I don’t know. . . . They knew exactly what we were going to do down there.”

All these years later, no evidence has emerged that the Patriots actually did film the Rams’ walk-through. So why do so many Rams players think it happened? Pace hinted that the reason may just be it’s hard for them to accept, as such a talented team, that they never won another Super Bowl after bursting onto the scene as the Greatest Show on Turf in 1999.

“You look at all those Hall of Famers and you just saw missed opportunities, and that was one of them because we should have had multiple championships,” Pace said.

Heading into that Super Bowl, no one would have thought that the Rams were already done winning Super Bowls, while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.

284 responses to “Orlando Pace still bitter about the Patriots, 16 years later

  1. He should be.

    Putting your body and livelihood on the line and preparing to win a title, only to be robbed by cheaters and their co-conspirator officials aiding and abetting them. I’d be bitter also.

  2. “Pace hinted that the reason may just be it’s hard for them to accept, as such a talented team, that they never won another Super Bowl after bursting onto the scene as the Greatest Show on Turf in 1999.”

    And there it is. Its oh so easy to refuse to accept your own failures by blaming them on non existent cheating. Americans used to have more spine than that. About time one of the Rams spat out the truth of the matter.

  3. while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?

  4. He knows damned well there is no cheating. Cheating is self-defeating and can’t be tried anyway. The reason that Rams team never won another Superbowl is because they WEREN’T as good as advertised. They showed that in struggling to a lackluster NFC Championship win against the Bucs in 1999, escaping a stronger Titans team in their one Superbowl win, losing to the perennial doormat Saints in 2000, then finally getting exposed by a Patriots team stronger than anyone gave them credit for.

    The fact is the Patriots won because they gameplanned for everything – they played (and play) SITUATIONAL FOOTBALL where everyone else insists on freelancing and depending on athleticism.

  5. I guess saying you got cheated feels better than saying we got whipped by a better team.

    And I am very much looking forward to Terripet embracing the Patriot Way 30 seconds after McDaniels is announced as the new coach in Indy.

  6. Uhhh there is no evidence because the NFL destroyed the tape.

    If the NFL had shown what was on the tape maybe there would be closure… But it’s disingenuous to say there in no evidence when the key piece was destroyed.

  7. Hmm. Kurt Warner says the Pats won because their corners played physical and threw off the timing. I don’t need to steal your playbook to beat up your receivers…

  8. Don’t let a false narrative get in the way of facts. If only the Patriots had superior game preparation, the GOAT QB and the GOAT coach to somehow explain the reason for their success. But it’s easier for the haters to say they should’ve won. Like some grand force was just going to give it to them.

  9. terripet says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:58 am
    Cheaters will cheat every opportunity they get

    3 6 Rate This

    ———————-

    Losers refuse to learn, are entitled narcissists, and sit in basements posting on messageboards all day and night.

  10. No one will ever know exactly what the Pats did considering the tapes were destroyed. So there will always be someone bitter about it. It may take away from the earlier years, but its hard to take away from what they did since then.

  11. Same exact thing happeend with the Panthers. First half the players said that the Patriots KNEW exactly the play called. In second half the Panthers changed up the signals and look what happened…scored a bunch of points and almost won.

  12. Why did Roger (Pats franchise MVP) destroy the tapes?!?!? You don’t destroy evidence of innocence that can restore credibility!

  13. terripet says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:58 am
    Cheaters will cheat every opportunity they get

    —————

    Yes….the Colts pumped in fake crowd noise for years…..but the still couldn’t beat the Pats. So Bill Polian petitioned the league to change the rules to impede defenders’ abilities to cover receivers and they still only managed a single SB win aided by the refs calling a non-existent “face guarding” penalty against Ellis Hobbs in the AFCCG

  14. If they were as great as they believed they were they would have won the year after and the year after that. They lost that is all it was. The Patriots lost their perfect season when they lost to the Giants but you don’t see them crying like babies about. They should have won they didn’t they don’t blame anyone but themselves. Grow up you lost take it like a man.

  15. That “Journalist’ ( also known as a best selling fiction author, to those who can read), just started seeing the light of day around here on the radio.
    There must have been a 10 year Radio wave Gag order on him in the Boston market. Its been a glorious 10 years as well.

    No surprise whatsoever, he has resurfaced on that dumpster-fire, soap opera radio station known as WEEI.

    Blow it up and Staht OVAAAA EEI, NO-One listens to you anymore

  16. thetooloftools says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:00 am

    Why would the Boston Herald reported it if it wasn’t true? They did because it was true plane and simple.

    ============================

    Why would the Boston Herald print a front and back page retraction, an unprecedented move for a major metropolitan newspaper?

  17. .
    Pace failed to mention that Martz forgot about the run and consistently threw into nickel and dime coverage. He failed to mention that Martz made Marshall Faulk a non factor. Saying the Patriots cheated sounds a whole lot better than we choked against a vastly inferior squad.
    .

  18. bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Why did Roger (Pats franchise MVP) destroy the tapes?!?!? You don’t destroy evidence of innocence that can restore credibility!

    ==========================

    Too bad the tapes were shown the to media before they were destroyed.

  19. “All these years later, no evidence has emerged that the Patriots actually did film the Rams’ walk-through.”

    So Goodell admitted to destroying make-believe tapes for what purpose, then?

  20. Yep sure the Pats didn’t cheat…just like how “the deflator” was referring to losing weight.
    Keep living in denial Pats fans..keep saying that the rest of us NFL fans are just jealous.

    The Pats Dynasty**….an asterisk for every time they were CAUGHT CHEATING.

  21. Mr Wright says”

    says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:55 am

    He should be.

    Putting your body and livelihood on the line and preparing to win a title, only to be robbed by cheaters and their co-conspirator officials aiding and abetting them. I’d be bitter also.

    ______________________________________

    Please explain how the Giants didn’t cheat against the Pats in SB 42.
    Strahan ADMITTED the Gnats were faking injuries to slow down NE offense.
    Then the same cheating was caught not long after on Nat’l TV against Sam Bradford and the mighty mighty St Louis Rams.
    All the evidence anyone would need is on youtube. Ready and waiting for you to look up.

    You must really hate your own team as well..
    Giants****

  22. Mr. Wright 212 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:55 am
    He should be.

    Putting your body and livelihood on the line and preparing to win a title, only to be robbed by cheaters and their co-conspirator officials aiding and abetting them. I’d be bitter also.
    /////////
    Really? Bitter over innuendo, heresay and speculation? Isn’t life too short?

  23. The Rams were arrogant and somewhat old school in the sense that they do what they do regardless of what the other team does. They were unable or unwilling to change their game plan, which has been a Hallmark of the Patriots. I don’t hear former Patriot players whining and complaining that the Giants somehow cheated and knew their game plan in 2007 when it was the Patriots that had the great offense. But that’s also a Hallmark of the Patriots. They never look outward. They always look inward.

  24. We all know the Patriots taped the practice, or at least had people there to see it. Matt Walsh didn’t blindly ask for an indemnity agreement for no reason…he knew he had damaging info on the Patriots. He even admitted to setting up the cameras DURING the Rams practice.

    Besides, the Patriots had 8 tapes on hand where they recorded coaches signals from Sept 2000 – 2002. And we’re supposed to believe that the Patriots wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to record the Rams practice, the day before the biggest game in their franchise history? Give me a break.

  25. The whole walk through tape, which was thoroughly debunked, was supposedly showing the Rams red zone offense. The Rams red zone offense went 2/2 in that game with 2 touchdowns. Its a trash argument. Maybe the Rams should look more into their 3 turnovers or the missed FG they had as reasons.

  26. usdcoyotesfan says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:57 am
    while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?
    /////
    I think most people measure the NFL dynasties based on post-merger performances.

  27. sidepull says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:11 am
    The greatest show on turf was getting planted in he turf that game. The Pats D was laying the wood.

    ——–

    The defense will go down as one of the best ever. Not a lot of big names like the Ravens’ but as a unit and Belichick’s coaching they were just as good.

  28. Pace hinted that the reason may just be it’s hard for them to accept, as such a talented team, that they never won another Super Bowl after bursting onto the scene as the Greatest Show on Turf in 1999.
    —————————————

    This is exactly right, and telling regrading how the Pats were able to gameplan so well. Martz was completely unwilling to adapt his offense and thought he could force his high powered passing attack down a defense’s throat. Belichick realized this in their regular season matchup and knew that by hitting the receivers and disguising blitzes he could potentially disrupt the timing key to they Rams offense. He did the same thing to Marchibroda and Kelly ten years before. And Martz continued to refuse to adapt, the rest of the league learned the same lesson, and the Rams “dynasty” was done.

  29. Orlando should look at videos produced by the Patriots. In them they detail the preparation that takes place, the Malcolm Butler INT is a classic example of the
    Pats being prepared for a particular play. Sour grapes Orlanda, admit that you were not as well prepared as the Pats, admit that Bill is a much better coach than Martz.

  30. Maybe they should have told Orlando, and every one else who wants to believe the practice taping thing to Google John Tomasse and Boston Herald and he would realize that the “taping practice” story was 100% fabricated and they had to print a full retraction.

    The taping during the first game in 2007. IN FULL VIEW of everyone- not clandestine absolutely happened, and it was a rule violation- no problem agreeing with that, but tying that to the “taping practice” thing is the obvious sign of the stupid or irrational Patriot hater.

    Jeez, its not like there hasn’t been SB upsets before.

  31. “The Boston Herald reported that the Patriots taped the Rams’ walk-through practice the day before that Super Bowl.”

    “So why do so many Rams players think it happened?”

    Uhh.. Pretty obvious why they would think that.

    The more compelling question is how did the article get past multiple editors and get printed if it was blatantly false and why did it take 6 months for the Boston Herald to issue a retraction? It’s not like this was the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

  32. These old Rams players like Pace, Faulk and Warner still can’t believe they lost. They still think they were the better team to this day. Well, why then did the Patriots go on to become the greatest dynasty in the history of the NFL while the “Greatest Show On Turf” could only muster one playoff victory over the next 4 years?

  33. rhinojr says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:05 am
    Same exact thing happeend with the Panthers. First half the players said that the Patriots KNEW exactly the play called. In second half the Panthers changed up the signals and look what happened…scored a bunch of points and almost won.

    —–
    So I guess the Panthers cheated too because the first half was a Defensive struggle and the second half was all opened up scoring.
    shaking my head – more loser mentality.

  34. People believe what they want to believe. It’s getting worse and worse these days. It’s all OK to the freedom to believe what you want. But it becomes dangerous when “belief systems” start dictating policy instead of factual information. That is were we tread into dangerous waters.

  35. usdcoyotesfan says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:57 am
    while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?

    The Packer won 5 Super Bowls in less than a decade? Show me the rings! Not those old single bar facemask 14 team/ 14 game (or 12 game) rings. Real Super Bowl Rings.

  36. FatBaba says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:13 am
    The fact that they were 1 and done says more about them than anything else. They were full of themselves.

    ——————-

    The original Seahawks.

  37. You often find that the “greatest” dynasties are those that were either built on hypocrisy, corruption, or were cheating. As the old adage goes…”if you ain’t cheatin’, you aint competin'” The Patriots have made a living on this. They’re frauds. Always have been, always will be.

  38. It’s different when the fans complain. That’s just what they do. Players are another story. I’ve always said that if a Coach isn’t turning over every Rock, and trying to do everything he can to help his team win, and that includes exploring the boundaries of the rules, he’s not doing his job. Nobody likes to see teams get away with penalties or faking injuries for timeouts Etc, and we know it’s gone on, and it can certainly help your team and shouldn’t be allowed, but let’s be real, it’s not a perfect system and not a perfect game. Teams have to be able to adjust.

  39. rhinojr says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:05 am
    Same exact thing happeend with the Panthers. First half the players said that the Patriots KNEW exactly the play called. In second half the Panthers changed up the signals and look what happened…scored a bunch of points and almost won.
    /////
    Wow, the Panthers made some “second-half adjustments” that made them more competitive!
    Why is it that some fans of losing teams can’t just accept the fact that the better team won?

  40. I remember when Belichick embarrassed Joe Montana in the 80s until 1991 in the playoffs. Montana’s offense had one touchdown in those 3 playoff games vs Belichick’s defense.

    Elway in super bow 21 and Jimmy Kelly in super bowl 25 (greatest offense of the 1990s) didn’t complain when they were upset by Belichick’s defense. They didn’t cry cheaters.

    Something happened 15 years ago in this country where we blame everyone else for our failures and want to disclaim someone’s else’s greatness.

    It’s why I abandoned the party on the left back in 2014. No responvilty and always complaining about other people.

    They are exactly like these whiners who can’t see that Belichick just works harder and has a football IQ of 160.

  41. dcnupe3 says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:17 am

    We all know the Patriots taped the practice, or at least had people there to see it. Matt Walsh didn’t blindly ask for an indemnity agreement for no reason…he knew he had damaging info on the Patriots. He even admitted to setting up the cameras DURING the Rams practice.

    Besides, the Patriots had 8 tapes on hand where they recorded coaches signals from Sept 2000 – 2002. And we’re supposed to believe that the Patriots wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to record the Rams practice, the day before the biggest game in their franchise history? Give me a break.

    ====================

    Matt Walsh’s story was thoroughly debunked. And taping was AND STILL IS LEGAL. A league memo after ’06 season said you can’t do it from sidelines, and Pats still did for the ’07 opener against the Jets. League determined Pats weren’t using it during that game but they still broke the rule and got punished. Please do a little research.

  42. Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:11 am
    bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Why did Roger (Pats franchise MVP) destroy the tapes?!?!? You don’t destroy evidence of innocence that can restore credibility!

    ==========================

    Too bad the tapes were shown the to media before they were destroyed.
    **************************************************************************

    LOL that is an outright lie. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the most bandwagon fans on earth. 17 consecutive blackouts in a row!

  43. This lie about filming practices was perpetrated by John Tomase a so called “journalist” who no longer works at the Boston Herald. The fact that this lie was out there for 6 months before an apology and retraction was made created an unfortunate urban myth.

  44. Pace should instead look at Mike Martz. As the story goes the Rams players were pleading with him to run the ball against NE and he ranted and raved they were going to win it ‘His Way’

  45. bigbadbills says:

    Too bad the tapes were shown the to media before they were destroyed.
    **************************************************************************

    LOL that is an outright lie. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the most bandwagon fans on earth. 17 consecutive blackouts in a row!
    =========

    LOL, its pretty easy to look this up. Reporters said it didn’t have a whole lot of interesting stuff aside from a funny part where the taper focused on a Chargers cheerleader for a while. I guess he got bored.

  46. That was more because you had an inferior head coach. Basically, the Patriots employed the same game plan the Giants did against the Bills when Belichick was the DC, and it worked again. Mike Martz just served it up on a platter because he didn’t run Faulk more. At least Marv Levy had Thomas running in that game they played, but they just didn’t get enough possessions to overcome the Giants grinding out 40 minutes or whatever it was. Patriots did the same thing but used controlled passes when Brady was still very much a game manager.

  47. Goodell destroyed tapes the Patriots had made of GAMES. He did so against the wishes of the Patriots. Those tapes showed other teams doing the same things back at them, in particular, the JETS. Those tapes being around would have made spygate a thing affecting half the league. Better to punish one team and make it go away, I guess. There is no way that the Patriots CHOSE to be that scapegoat. Goddell did it all on his own, to put it to rest for everyone but the Patriots. Bad move.

    There were no tapes of walkthroughs made, so there were no tapes of walkthroughs destroyed. They flat-out never existed. The so-called source came forward and admitted this to the Herald.

    The ignorance of these basic facts among NFL fans is astonishing.

    The Patriots have been better than you for 18 years because they have great coaches, the GOAT QB, work harder than you do, and prepare harder than you do.

    Accept it and respect it. It will not last forever.

  48. He’s not alone and Pats fans have long since reached the point where most of us wouldn’t have it any other way. Most of us have gone from being confused by it to trying to understand it to attempting to combat it to resenting it to ridiculing it to laughing at it and now we just embrace it. The hater is always more disturbed than the hated.

  49. The Rams won ONE a playoff game after that Patriots loss.

    If they were that great they wouldn’t have lost playoff games in 2000 to th Saints, miss the playoffs in 2002. Lose at home to the Panthers in 2003. And end their “dynasty” by losing to Matt Hasselbeck in the 2004 playoffs.

    Sure Belichick cheated. Even though you guys sucked in big games with a horrible head coach Mike smarts, every season after that Titans
    Super Bowl.

    Yeah, Martz would have outcoacjed Belichick had Belichick “not cheated”

    Being delusional can be a cancer to your life.

  50. usdcoyotesfan says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:57 am
    while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?

    —————

    They didn’t give out rings for victories over the Akron spark plugs…

  51. People are always going to be suspect of cheating with New England because of spygate and deflategate. How could you not be? They may be a godd team but there also pretty good cheating which will make a team like them always be disliked. It has nothing to do with winning.

  52. bigbadbills says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:26 am
    Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:11 am
    bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Why did Roger (Pats franchise MVP) destroy the tapes?!?!? You don’t destroy evidence of innocence that can restore credibility!

    ==========================

    Too bad the tapes were shown the to media before they were destroyed.
    **************************************************************************

    LOL that is an outright lie. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the most bandwagon fans on earth. 17 consecutive blackouts in a row!

    ————————-
    Outright lie? It was shown on national TV. Anyone over 20 years old saw it! Some of the most boring footage ever shown. I’m sure you can find it online if you really care but I bet you prefer to hold onto the lies, anything but embracing the truth, the Pats are a great dynasty!

  53. A lot of great teams only win one Superbowl. 70’s Raiders, 80’s Bears, 90’s Packers, 2000’s Colts etc… There are only a handful that truly become dynasties. – 50’s Browns, 60’s Packers, 70’s Steelers, 80’s 49ers, 90’s Cowboys, 2000’s to present Patriots… The Patriots are the greatest dynasty. I’m not a fan, in fact I’m tired of them. But the truth is the truth.

  54. Yeah because it’s never your fault you lost the game. The Super Bowl was just as close as the regular season game the teams played earlier that season when the Rams won by a TD. Get over it. The Patriots cheated by have your kicker, kick the ball out of bounds, by you letting Brady march down the field at the end of the game, by giving Adam Vinatieri a clean pocket to kick from? Shut up with this crap.

  55. Truth is Oralndo Pace is one of the greatest linemen in NFL history. And he never tried. Most seasons he skipped all of training camp. He’d show up a week before the season and be ready to go and he was still just that good. But he could have been greater, he could have been the best that ever done it. Instead, every season he ran out of gas probably because he never bothered to fill his tank with August conditioning and situational work in practice. His laziness blinds him to the sacrifice the greats truly make to be the best.

    He wants to call his opponents cheaters because it’s easier to blame them than himself for the mountains he never climbed. And that must be a part of his legacy as well.

  56. kenberthiaume says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:46 am
    How is videotaping something done in front of 80,000 people with no expectation of privacy considered “cheating”, anyway? It’s ludicrous.

    ————————————–

    No it’s not. Nor is it against the rules. The only rule the Patriots violated was the one that stipulates WHERE you can videotape from (enclosed location vs. sideline).

  57. Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:26 am

    Matt Walsh’s story was thoroughly debunked. And taping was AND STILL IS LEGAL. A league memo after ’06 season said you can’t do it from sidelines, and Pats still did for the ’07 opener against the Jets. League determined Pats weren’t using it during that game but they still broke the rule and got punished. Please do a little research.

    ===============

    How was it debunked? He met with the commissioner and afterwards the commissioner met with the Patriots, revealed the tapes, and then they were destroyed. If you call destroying evidence “debunking” then you’re more of a sheep than I thought. And lets ignore the fact that the Patriots had a person with the position of “Football Research Director” whose job was to manage all of this. Everyone in the organization knew it was going on, with a former Patriots assistant as saying “things got out of control,” in reference to the entire system of covert taping and signal decoding.

    But you’re right – Deflategate, SpyGate…they were all just pulled out of thin air. How’s that saying go? “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”…except at One Patriots Place LOL

  58. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:43 am
    It has nothing to do with winning.
    ______________________________________________________

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…
    That’s all it has to with. If they lost no one would care what they do. Not long ago their GM was actively texting the coach on the sidelines in game but nobody hates on the Browns. In spite of starting the game .5 PSI higher than the Pats footballs 3 of 4 Colts footballs were below the limit, no one so much as batted an eye and no one hates on the Dolts. It has everything to do with winning just admit it and embrace your hate, most Pats fans do. In fact we enjoy your hate very much. Because we know hate is as close to respect as whiners can get and your salty venom is the sea we float on.

  59. “Weren’t the patiorts fined and docked draft picks for recording walk through?”

    No, they weren’t.

    They were fined and docked a pick because their camera was on the sideline 30′ out of the new, league approved position in the stands, for the first half of the first game of 2007.

    Which is laughable because as we all know, the zoom lens wasn’t invented until 2008

  60. ExitStrategy says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:25 am

    It’s not like this is unprecedented. How many times have we seen a more physical team smack a finesse team in the mouth to win a Super Bowl?
    ————————

    Super Bowl 48 comes to mind. Denver went back to their roots in that epic beatdown.

  61. dcnupe3 says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:26 am

    Matt Walsh’s story was thoroughly debunked. And taping was AND STILL IS LEGAL. A league memo after ’06 season said you can’t do it from sidelines, and Pats still did for the ’07 opener against the Jets. League determined Pats weren’t using it during that game but they still broke the rule and got punished. Please do a little research.

    ===============

    How was it debunked? He met with the commissioner and afterwards the commissioner met with the Patriots, revealed the tapes, and then they were destroyed. If you call destroying evidence “debunking” then you’re more of a sheep than I thought. And lets ignore the fact that the Patriots had a person with the position of “Football Research Director” whose job was to manage all of this. Everyone in the organization knew it was going on, with a former Patriots assistant as saying “things got out of control,” in reference to the entire system of covert taping and signal decoding.

    But you’re right – Deflategate, SpyGate…they were all just pulled out of thin air. How’s that saying go? “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”…except at One Patriots Place LOL

    ==============

    Front and backpage retraction. Sorry dude, the story died. And the “destroyed evidence” thing is just plain made up. And simple physics and Goodell lying in open court put Deflategate to bed. And where are the PSI logs? Why didn’t the Steelers get bagged last year for low PSI against the Giants? Why didn’t the Colts get in trouble for both low PSI and admitted to tampering with Pats footballs by sticking a needle gauge in one? Do a little research.

  62. The idea they were taping “walk throughs” was debunked. The NFL investigated it.

    Taping an opposing sideline when they’re giving signals in front of 80,000 people isn’t “cheating”, as there’s no expectation of privacy. Against the rules maybe, but it’s not “spying”. Spying means the person expects privacy and you’re violating it. It’s ludicrous.

  63. People also forget how much smack the Rams talked before and during that game. There’s legendary sideline video of their CBs calling Brady overrated. But they were right about one thing: a dynasty was indeed born in that Super Bowl. Have fun in LA or wherever you move next.

  64. steverolley says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:01 am
    Uhhh there is no evidence because the NFL destroyed the tape.

    If the NFL had shown what was on the tape maybe there would be closure… But it’s disingenuous to say there in no evidence when the key piece was destroyed
    ——–
    Yet another uninformed fan. They didn’t destroy a walkthrough tape because it never existed. You obviously think spygate was taping the rams practice. They destroyed the spygate tapes AFTER the league showed the tapes on each side of the podium when announcing the penalties against the patriots. Quick reminder – spygate was taping the jets during the game from the sidelines which isn’t allowed. You have to tape from an enclosed room. Taping is legal. It’s in the rule book. The jets knew it because they did it to the patriots the previous year with no penalty. The camera (which is allowed to be used) was in the wrong place. That’s it.

  65. jmac1013 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:29 am
    Weren’t the patiorts fined and docked draft picks for recording walk through?
    _________________________________________________________

    No they were not. Spygate happened in 2007. The so called walk through filming (that never happened, read the article above) would have been 2001. The mis-information that is out there on this subject is ridiculous, but hey… it has the Pats in everyone’s head and if that helps them win again than I’m fine with it

  66. fballguy says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:10 pm
    What ever happened to Matt Walsh? He’s been awfully quiet. The kind of quiet only money can buy.

    0 0 Rate This

    ——————–

    Ask Goodell. He’s the one who freaked out about the tapes he had. The Pats have nothing to hide, but Goodell and his cheating owners do.

  67. 16 years of hate and resentment are not good for you. It just eats away at you. Let it go, Orlando. The Patriots put the “Greatest Show On Turf” to bed once and for all. Accept it. They didn’t cheat. They smacked your team in the mouth.

  68. I don’t know Orlando, hasn’t history proven without a doubt that the Patriots actually aren’t flukes—Belichick is more than capable of outcoaching most, and that Brady turned out to be just a little better than anyone thought? Have you noticed? That defensive unit was also just coming into their own, and I’ve never seen a more falsely entitled “team” take the field than that Rams group, who we’re very busy telling each other “dynasty, baby” before the game started, and were not remotely ready for the physicality the Pats brought while keeping their mouths shut.

    The Pats have upended many premature “dynasties” while creating the biggest one. The difference is, the players are commanded to be humble and aren’t allowed to assume anything. Nothing and nobody is ever above the team. The Pats defense was swarming and punishing the Rams that day—it was clear. The Rams did not match it. That’s what really happened. You can take bitter pills if you want to or you can accept the truth.

  69. Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:26 am

    Matt Walsh’s story was thoroughly debunked. And taping was AND STILL IS LEGAL. A league memo after ’06 season said you can’t do it from sidelines, and Pats still did for the ’07 opener against the Jets. League determined Pats weren’t using it during that game but they still broke the rule and got punished. Please do a little research.

    ===============

    How was it debunked? He met with the commissioner and afterwards the commissioner met with the Patriots, revealed the tapes, and then they were destroyed. If you call destroying evidence “debunking” then you’re more of a sheep than I thought. And lets ignore the fact that the Patriots had a person with the position of “Football Research Director” whose job was to manage all of this. Everyone in the organization knew it was going on, with a former Patriots assistant as saying “things got out of control,” in reference to the entire system of covert taping and signal decoding.

    But you’re right – Deflategate, SpyGate…they were all just pulled out of thin air. How’s that saying go? “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”…except at One Patriots Place LOL

    2 4 Rate This

    ——————-

    Who is the source saying “things got out of control”? Could it be unnamed sources are nothing more than heresay, rumor or maybe a disgruntled player BB cut?

  70. steelcurtainn says: “People are always going to be suspect of cheating with New England because of spygate and deflategate. How could you not be?”

    ———
    People could, you know, educate themselves. Spygate was about the Patriots incorrectly interpreting or ignoring a 2006 memo outlining where cameras can be placed. Before 2006, no such camera placement limitations existed, so it is silly to claim someone broken rule that flat out DID NOT EXIST until 2006. Spygate was not about taping practices. That never happened.

    Deflategate? It was about playing a football game in 48 degree weather. No more, no less. the NFL did not know that if you drop the temperature, the pressure in a football drops. By the time they figured this out (and google it, the French scientist Amontons figured it out in 1700) they had already declared a punishment.

    Having to rescind a punishment, for any reason (including proof that it was unjust) was a reduction in Goodell’s authority, so he fought it. Judges declared he had every right, due to the CBA, of deciding who to punish, for any reason, or for no reason.

    Bottom line: there is ZERO evidence that any person took any air whatsoever out of any football. The NFL even knows this now. They studied how weather affects football the very next yar and kept the finding to themselves!

  71. TheTruth says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:49 am
    bigbadbills says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:26 am
    Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:11 am
    bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Why did Roger (Pats franchise MVP) destroy the tapes?!?!? You don’t destroy evidence of innocence that can restore credibility!

    ==========================

    Too bad the tapes were shown the to media before they were destroyed.
    **************************************************************************

    LOL that is an outright lie. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the most bandwagon fans on earth. 17 consecutive blackouts in a row!

    ————————-
    Outright lie? It was shown on national TV. Anyone over 20 years old saw it! Some of the most boring footage ever shown. I’m sure you can find it online if you really care but I bet you prefer to hold onto the lies, anything but embracing the truth, the Pats are a great dynasty!

    9 1 Rate This

    You’re delusional if you believe all the tapes were shown. Everyone knows they showed tapes with nothing on them, then destroyed all of them. Perfect way to cover up the cheating BS. The NFL has manufactured the Pats to be relevant to put bandwagon fans in the seats. Its the only explanation as to the cover-ups like the botched deflate-gate investigation or the fact week after week, year after year the pats win with the help of refs. This year alone the pats won against Houston, NY Jets, Buffalo and Pittsburgh because of the refs and refs alone. You can’t even argue that.

  72. seahawkboymike says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:50 am
    Spygate, Deflategate, filming walkthroughs, the list go on and on.

    And you can also add ENDING the Only ONE YEAR Dynasty in the NFL. Patriots ruined the Seahawks

  73. Winners win, losers whine. It’s what they do.

    And by losers of course I’m also referring to the inferior fans as well as inferior teams, many of which post here,

    🙂

  74. Just google press showed tapes for heaven’s sake. there are a multitude of stories written by the folks who were their.

  75. Just re-read the 2015 ESPN report. I almost forgot how dirty the Patriots were. Needed a reminder. What a disgrace this was swept under the rug.

  76. Mr. Wright 212 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:14 pm
    Love watching Patriots fans in deflect mode.

    0 0 Rate This

    ——————-

    Love watching knuckle dragers make fools of themselves. Don’t force me to post the Cowher interview where he backs BB and exposed Goodell and the owners as cheaters.

  77. What I remember about that game is the Patriots played defense with 5 and 6 defensive backs the entire game. They dared Martz to pass and Martz passed despite having a healthy Marshall Faulk ready to roll.

  78. It may be 5 years it may be 20 years but when the patriots have finally broken up there will eventually be all kinds reports and controversy that comes out showing they cheated for years

  79. seahawkboymike says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:50 am
    Spygate, Deflategate, filming walkthroughs, the list go on and on.

    2 14 Rate This

    ———————-

    Actually, morons who believe this stuff, including believing Goodell, as they showcase their stupidity over and over.

    Could it be there is no list and people just make stuff up to satisfy why they’re a loser?

    Did the Boogie Man jump into the elevator and knock out Ray Rice’s fiancee, too? Because Goodell told us he didn’t know what happened AFTER Rice confessed and he aaid there was no tape available to see the inside of the elevator.

    Do you believe that, too? What about the ratings drops and it tied ot the “election”? Believe that, tootz?

    Hmm?

    Shall I keep going?

  80. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:43 am
    People are always going to be suspect of cheating with New England because of spygate and deflategate. How could you not be? They may be a godd team but there also pretty good cheating which will make a team like them always be disliked. It has nothing to do with winning.

    ———

    There is no bigger example of cheating than a team’s head coach stepping onto the field to trip an opposing player.

  81. tylawspick6 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:23 pm
    Mr. Wright 212 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:14 pm
    Love watching Patriots fans in deflect mode.

    0 0 Rate This

    ——————-

    Love watching knuckle dragers make fools of themselves. Don’t force me to post the Cowher interview where he backs BB and exposed Goodell and the owners as cheaters.

    1 1 Rate This

    LOL please do. If a Bill Cowher is your vindication than you are in trouble. #17blackoutsinarow

  82. “You’re delusional if you believe all the tapes were shown. Everyone knows they showed tapes with nothing on them, then destroyed all of them. Perfect way to cover up the cheating BS. ”

    How does “everyone know” that? Where is the evidence? You state things without evidence and then say that “everyone believes that” as if that alone (which is ridiculous) is evidence. Only fools think like that.

  83. Spygate is about camera location. Deflategate is about the power of Goodell to do whatever he wants. There. Gratis for you haters.

  84. Pace, go ask your coach. He said he blew the game plan by not going hurry up until the end. He also said that when he played the Patriots earlier in the season they were the best team they had played in the NFL. The Patriots were close to winning that game too.

  85. jmac1013 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:29 am
    Weren’t the patiorts fined and docked draft picks for recording walk through?

    No the patiorts, whoever they are, were never fined nor did they lose draft picks for recording a walk through.

  86. There is no bigger example of cheating than a team’s head coach stepping onto the field to trip an opposing player.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________
    There’s a big difference tho, The Steelers didn’t pick up trophies with asterisks along the way.

  87. I hope the Patriots win the Super Bowl on an overturned TD by the other team. 🙂

    Getting in Patriot Hater’s grill and taunting them will be DELICIOUS!

  88. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:38 pm
    There is no bigger example of cheating than a team’s head coach stepping onto the field to trip an opposing player.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________
    There’s a big difference tho, The Steelers didn’t pick up trophies with asterisks along the way
    —-
    Cheated to win 5 and the refs gave you 1. That’s 0 legit championships.

    Try again. 🙂

  89. Interesting how no one ever talks about how Aaron Rodgers admitted to cheating by playing with over-inflated footballs and said that everyone did it. Is it because Aaron Rodgers has won next to nothing and Brady is going to his 8th Super Bowl? People love to tear down the winners

  90. jmac1013 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:29 am
    Weren’t the patiorts fined and docked draft picks for recording walk through?
    —-
    That would be the Denver Broncos. 🙂

  91. theoriginalpftpoet says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:25 pm
    It may be 5 years it may be 20 years but when the patriots have finally broken up there will eventually be all kinds reports and controversy that comes out showing they cheated for years

    Been hearing this for 10 years, or is it 15? Hope springs eternal I suppose. So tell us, exactly how has Bill B managed to keep probably 1000 ex patriot players from coming forward? The only ones coming forward are the lame and the jealous. People who “know” what happened. They have no evidence or witnesses but they “know”.

  92. There is no bigger example of cheating than a team’s head coach stepping onto the field to trip an opposing player.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________
    There’s a big difference tho, The Steelers didn’t pick up trophies with asterisks along the way.
    —–

    The Steelers won 2 trophies “along the way”. So if they cheated that blatantly, what else have they cheated with? I think the burden is on them to prove they didn’t.

  93. Bottom line: there is ZERO evidence that any person took any air whatsoever out of any football. The NFL even knows this now.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________
    Where there is smoke their is fire. The team is guilty of cheating in many eyes including mine and I’m not believing one bit New England is as innocent as Patriots fans claim they are. If there in the headlines, suspicion is already there.

  94. ““You’re delusional if you believe all the tapes were shown. Everyone knows they showed tapes with nothing on them, then destroyed all of them. Perfect way to cover up the cheating BS. ””

    What they were covering up if anything, was the fact those tapes showed multiple other teams recording the Pats signals just as the Pats were doing. The tapes were destroyed to prevent a league wide “scandal”. Which given the fact that it is not illegal to record signals or the other team’s sideline, just where you can tape from is pretty ridiculous to begin with.

    The fact is Roger and the other former Jets execs running the league office loathe Belichick for quitting as Jets HC less than a day after he was hired, the loathe the Pats for their success under him and will do anything the can to minimize that success while doing everything in their power to help that pathetic Jets franchise.

  95. January 30, 2018 at 11:11 am
    bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 11:06 am

    Why did Roger (Pats franchise MVP) destroy the tapes?!?!? You don’t destroy evidence of innocence that can restore credibility!

    ==========================

    Too bad the tapes were shown the to media before they were destroyed.
    **************************************************************************

    LOL that is an outright lie. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the most bandwagon fans on earth. 17 consecutive blackouts in a row!

    ————————-
    Outright lie? It was shown on national TV. Anyone over 20 years old saw it! Some of the most boring footage ever shown. I’m sure you can find it online if you really care but I bet you prefer to hold onto the lies, anything but embracing the truth, the Pats are a great dynasty!

    9 1 Rate This

    You’re delusional if you believe all the tapes were shown. Everyone knows they showed tapes with nothing on them, then destroyed all of them. Perfect way to cover up the cheating BS. The NFL has manufactured the Pats to be relevant to put bandwagon fans in the seats. Its the only explanation as to the cover-ups like the botched deflate-gate investigation or the fact week after week, year after year the pats win with the help of refs. This year alone the pats won against Houston, NY Jets, Buffalo and Pittsburgh because of the refs and refs alone. You can’t even argue that.

    ==============

    What evidence do you have that the “real” tapes were held back? And how are the Pats helped by refs when Dion Lewis was clearly and obviously down by contact, yet it was called a fumble against Jags? (see “leg catch”, Baldwin, Doug) or two other obvious uncalled PI’s committed on Gronk and Hogan? Bad calls go both ways.

  96. Goodness Orlando, you sound like a jilted teenager whose date left him high and dry at the homecoming dance or the prom. Get over it already. As someone else pointed, how many playoff games did they win after that Super Bowl loss? Seems to me the “Greatest Show on Turf” was a one and done fad. Never heard from after that.

  97. Yes….the Colts pumped in fake crowd noise for years…..but the still couldn’t beat the Pats. So Bill Polian petitioned the league to change the rules to impede defenders’ abilities to cover receivers and they still only managed a single SB win aided by the refs calling a non-existent “face guarding” penalty against Ellis Hobbs in the AFCCG

    “””””
    Lol at the lies told by Pats fans. Nobody has any respect for Pats fans because you twist the truth.

    Colts did not pump in crowd noise. CBS took the blame and the Colts were never found guilty. Now Pats fans will say that’s part of the conspiracy against the Pats.

    Polian asked the league to enforce the rules. He never asked them to change the rules. Pats defensive guys were constantly holding Colts players. Same thing Pats fans whine that Gronk is being held all the time.

    And I thought Pats fans never whines about the refs.

    Pats fans has been whining about 2007 loss since the second they lost the SB.

    And clearly taping signals has always been illegal. The Colts never did it. The rule was made regarding location of cameras so you wouldn’t have a clear view of the signals. Now they use headsets.

    Answer this ? Pats fans. Why would BB need to tape signals if he wasn’t using them in real time? If you have game tapes you can clearly see the defense called and the time and distance. So what purpose did the taping of signals serve?

    There’s no proof of the Pats taping the walkthrough but we know they taped signals so they obviousky knew all the plays being run. That’s why their first 3 SB’s are tainted. And SB 4 is tainted because of deflategate. Even though it had no affect on the outcome of the AFCCG they were doing it for a
    long time and it could have changed the outcome of a close game.

    As of now last yrs SB is legitimate until the next cheating gate

  98. steverolley says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:01 am
    Uhhh there is no evidence because the NFL destroyed the tape.

    If the NFL had shown what was on the tape maybe there would be closure…
    ———-
    You talking about spygate tapes? excerpts were only played hourly on every sports show in the country for a week solid. pan to coach, pan to clock, pan to coach pan to clock.. over and over and over… other than on national tv for a week non stop you are completely correct, no one saw the tapes.

  99. But I do like how you do agree Deflategate was botched. We can agree there. Physics and the massive conflicts of interest with the Wells/Exponent Report clearly showed that to be true. Goodell shouldn’t have called Wells “independent” in open court and to the public when Wells allowed the NFL to edit Wells report, and then the NFL hired Wells’ colleague to represent them at the appeal hearing.

  100. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:42 pm
    Bottom line: there is ZERO evidence that any person took any air whatsoever out of any football. The NFL even knows this now.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________
    Where there is smoke their is fire.

    Does this apply to a certain QB who like to “meet” his dates in the restroom?

  101. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    Where there is smoke their is fire. The team is guilty of cheating in many eyes including mine and I’m not believing one bit New England is as innocent as Patriots fans claim they are. If there in the headlines, suspicion is already there..
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    Any opinions avowed by Steeler fans are to be discounted in their entirety. After 20 years of failing to beat the Patriots on the field they hold so much jealousy and bitterness that they simply cannot be objective, and find it easier to blame imaginary cheating or referee bias for their losses.

  102. If the Patriots were cheating, they should win those games by at least twenty points. Why let the opposing teams have the chance to score back and win? The Patriots won by what, 3-4 points. Is that your logic haters?

  103. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:43 am
    It has nothing to do with winning.

    (but less than an hour later)

    steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:38 pm
    There’s a big difference tho, The Steelers didn’t pick up trophies with asterisks along the way.
    ________________________________________________

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Says it has nothing to do with winning’ but < 60 minutes later cheating is okay as long as you don't pick up a trophy along the way. Poor Pats haters get so worked up they can't keep their stories straight. You can't make this stuff up.

  104. the line scrolling on the bottom of NFL network TV has been showing the following:

    Patriots are 15-0 in playoff games against teams they did not play in the regular season.

    How is that possible if they need to cheat to win?

  105. I’m not a Patriots fan, but man, do they bring out the bitterness in those they defeat. Personally I think all the cheating conspiracies – as borne out by the evidence – are bunk. And for those who think Goodell destroyed the tapes to somehow “protect” the Patriots – really? This is the same guy who dragged a pointless investigation about footballs out for two years and cherry picked the evidence to punish them. So why would he not nail them to the wall if the tapes showed anything?

    The Rams lost because they showed up to the game assuming they’d already won. They got punched in the mouth and didn’t expect it – and you can see that plainly when you watch the game.

  106. What evidence do you have that the “real” tapes were held back? And how are the Pats helped by refs when Dion Lewis was clearly and obviously down by contact, yet it was called a fumble against Jags? (see “leg catch”, Baldwin, Doug) or two other obvious uncalled PI’s committed on Gronk and Hogan? Bad calls go both ways.
    ********************************************************************************

    The fact they destroyed the tapes lets me know there was more on there. You don’t destroy something that can clear their name.
    It was clearly a fumble having the ball trapped against your leg is not reestablishing possession of the ball. That was a TD for the jags that was taken away. There was one obvious PI against the Jags in the 2nd half that was called the other one called at the end of the first half was BS, not even close. There were no other PI calls against you that should have been called. Learn the rules.

  107. while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?

    Actually if you count conference championships – which Green Bay really won prior to the Super Bowl era, the Packers won 5 NFC Championships and 2 Super Bowls. The Patriots (so far) have won 8 AFC Championships and 5 Super Bowls. Now who’s the real dynasty?

  108. This may be the best video from a non-patriots fan (Arizona Cardinals fan), but this won’t change the minds of fans of other teams, mainly because it’s too hard for people to change how they’ve been brainwashed, but I’m glad this is out there from someone that has zero bias. Watch and Learn.

  109. To the conspiracy theorists:
    Do you have any idea on what it takes to pull of a conspiracy and keep it quiet for 15 years? The only way to keep people quiet is to incentivize them not to do so. So you’ve either got to have a ton of evidence against them for something or you have to pay them huge dollars. Either way you’re talking about a lot of people to keep on the sly and always a risk of them upping the payment. Impossible. The conspiracy with the refs is the best though. You’re basically talking about criminal behavior to pull that off where the penalties to participants as well as the league would be huge. Not only would there be jail time but Congress would initiate an investigation that could result in penalties so large the league would have to fold. Conspiracies are fun until you hold them up to the light of reality.

  110. During the 2001 season, Pats and Rams played one regular season game and again in the SB

    The Pats played the Rams during the 2001 regular season and lost 24-17.
    in that game Rams had 3 turnovers (2 INT and 1 fumble) that resulted in NE scoring 10 points. One of those turnovers was a fumble, in which Brady was intercepted on the very next play. One of the INTs was run back for a TD

    NE also had 3 turnovers in that game (2 INT and 1 fumble) that resulted in Rams scoring 17 points.

    In the SB later that year:
    The Rams also had 3 turnovers (2 INT and 1 fumble) which NE scored 17 from (one of the INT was run back for a TD). NE had no turnovers.

    The Rams stats were similar in both games:
    Warner passed for 401 yds, 3 TDs and had 2 picks in the regular season game
    Warner passed for 365 yards in the SB, 2 TDs (one pass, one run) and had 2 picks

    Faulk had 83 yards running in the first game, 76 yards in the SB.

    For the Pats, the biggest difference in stats was turnovers…. 3 in the regular season game vs 0 in the SB.

    And that was the difference in these games:
    Points off turnovers:
    Rams 17, NE 10 in the 1st game
    NE 17, Rams 0 in the SB

    those are the REAL facts

  111. With all these fabricated stories flying around, it’s gratifying to know that no one really thinks that what the Patriots actually DID do, taping the opponents defensive signals from the sideline after a memo came out saying to stop it, is that big a deal.

    Instead, people have to make stuff up in order to justify their “outrage”. Without the fictional walkthru tape or the destruction of those mysterious tapes that no one ever saw but everyone seems to “know” existed, Spygate amounts to nada.

    Which is what Pats fans have been saying all along.

  112. 2 interceptions and 1 fumble lost is why the Rams lost the game…. not some mystical walk thru video….

  113. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:

    January 30, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    Yes….the Colts pumped in fake crowd noise for years…..but the still couldn’t beat the Pats. So Bill Polian petitioned the league to change the rules to impede defenders’ abilities to cover receivers and they still only managed a single SB win aided by the refs calling a non-existent “face guarding” penalty against Ellis Hobbs in the AFCCG

    “””””
    Lol at the lies told by Pats fans. Nobody has any respect for Pats fans because you twist the truth.

    Colts did not pump in crowd noise. CBS took the blame and the Colts were never found guilty. Now Pats fans will say that’s part of the conspiracy against the Pats.

    Polian asked the league to enforce the rules. He never asked them to change the rules. Pats defensive guys were constantly holding Colts players. Same thing Pats fans whine that Gronk is being held all the time.

    And I thought Pats fans never whines about the refs.

    Pats fans has been whining about 2007 loss since the second they lost the SB.

    And clearly taping signals has always been illegal. The Colts never did it. The rule was made regarding location of cameras so you wouldn’t have a clear view of the signals. Now they use headsets.

    Answer this ? Pats fans. Why would BB need to tape signals if he wasn’t using them in real time? If you have game tapes you can clearly see the defense called and the time and distance. So what purpose did the taping of signals serve?

    There’s no proof of the Pats taping the walkthrough but we know they taped signals so they obviously knew all the plays being run. That’s why their first 3 SB’s are tainted. And SB 4 is tainted because of deflategate. Even though it had no affect on the outcome of the AFCCG they were doing it for a
    long time and it could have changed the outcome of a close game.

    As of now last yrs SB is legitimate until the next cheating gate

    ==============================================

    Polian, member of the competition committee, in effect did get rules changed. By pushing for stricter enforcement of the clutching and grabbing rules, he created more penalties and opened up passing offenses.

    Taping signals was and still is legal, you can’t as of ’06 post season, tape from sidelines though. Pats were stupid and got dinged for it for that 1 Jets game. NFL officially determined zero competitive advantage was gained though.

    Your claim about the “clear view’ is just plain made up. And many other coaches (ie Cowher, Schoettenheimer, Jimmy Johnson) said they tried it but it didn’t really help.

    And your right, the Seahawks SB was tainted because of Deflategate. It gave the Seahawks a distinct advantage because the Pats had to spend time away from prepration to defend themselves from something explained by high school physics. WHERE ARE THE PSI LOGS?

  114. “while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.”

    The Patriots went a decade between SB titles. That would be the weirdest “dynasty” I’ve heard of. It was more like 2 mini-dynasties seperated by 10 years. If you’re going to stretch it out like that, then the 49ers are the greatest dynasty with 5 championships in 14 seasons (81-94). The Pats took 16 seasons to win 5.

  115. ““They had a pretty solid game plan for us…”

    Gee, maybe that’s because the Patriots had Bill Belichick and you had Mike Martz.

  116. bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    What evidence do you have that the “real” tapes were held back? And how are the Pats helped by refs when Dion Lewis was clearly and obviously down by contact, yet it was called a fumble against Jags? (see “leg catch”, Baldwin, Doug) or two other obvious uncalled PI’s committed on Gronk and Hogan? Bad calls go both ways.
    ********************************************************************************

    It was clearly a fumble having the ball trapped against your leg is not reestablishing possession of the ball. That was a TD for the jags that was taken away. There was one obvious PI against the Jags in the 2nd half that was called the other one called at the end of the first half was BS, not even close. There were no other PI calls against you that should have been called. Learn the rules.

    ==========

    So, you still have no backing info that the real tapes were held back. Gotcha.

    And Lewis secured the ball to his hip before losing it. If you can secure a ball with your leg (Baldwin) or helmet for that matter (Tyree), then obviously you can with your hip. Lewis had the ball on his hip and was down a moment before he lost it. If you think you can’t secure a ball with something other than your torso or your hands, then the Patriots should have a perfect season to celebrate.

  117. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:48 pm
    Answer this ? Pats fans. Why would BB need to tape signals if he wasn’t using them in real time? If you have game tapes you can clearly see the defense called and the time and distance. So what purpose did the taping of signals serve?
    —————————————-
    belicheck has explained this – the tapes, as all teams did, reviewed them for tendencies to determine what formations and schemes were rune in different scenarios. Trended by teams as well as coaches.

    Answer me this – Walk us through exactly how this worked in ‘real time’ given the amount of time in between plays where there is limited time in which you can communicate to a headset or signal in your play. Show me the video that shows the Pat’s sideline waiting for the other team to signal in their play before they signal theirs. Because that would mean they have to know the other teams signals cold, quickly come up with a play to counter it and get it in. That would at least potentially support your theory. Please answer – the integrity of all spygate conspiracy theorists rests on your response.

  118. Gee — And Bubba Smith said til the end of his life his Colts threw their Super Bowl game to the Jets, too.
    It’s total nonsense and it means nothing. If you don’t believe me, look it up.
    Everybody who isn’t a Pats fan hates them because they’re jealous of them because they’ve been the best team for almost 15 years.
    The Broncos and 49’ers got caught cheating with the salary cap and were fined and lost draft picks, too — during their Super Bowl years!!
    The Vikings and Falcons both got caught piping loud music into their stadiums when other teams were trying to get plays called into their QB’s.
    So — give me a break already with these phony excuses for losing!!
    And we all know there have players cheating on every team by using PED’s. And how many more are using them that haven’t been caught?
    So stop the whining and crying and get real, folks. I’m a Packers fan and I get sick and tired of hearing all these crybabies who say all this stupid stuff — especially when it’s a former player.
    Vince Lombardi was convinced George Halas used to have planes fly over his practices and film what he was doing. He was so worried about it, he stopped practicing one time until the plane which was circling overhead left.
    Cheating and sports go hand in hand, folks. Look at how many college programs have been caught and sanctioned.
    If you get away with it, it isn’t cheating. That’s the truth and no one can argue with that because we all know that’s how these coaches and players feel.

  119. usdcoyotesfan says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:57 am
    while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?

    —————+
    The Packers never won 5 rings. They dont give Superbowl rings for winning their county.

  120. lanman11 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:23 am
    It’s different when the fans complain. That’s just what they do. Players are another story. I’ve always said that if a Coach isn’t turning over every Rock, and trying to do everything he can to help his team win, and that includes exploring the boundaries of the rules, he’s not doing his job. Nobody likes to see teams get away with penalties or faking injuries for timeouts Etc, and we know it’s gone on, and it can certainly help your team and shouldn’t be allowed, but let’s be real, it’s not a perfect system and not a perfect game. Teams have to be able to adjust.
    ————————————————-

    Exactly – and anyone who wants to pretend that their team is above all this is delusional. Bill Cowher has said publicly that all teams try to steal signals – Troy Aikman has said that Jimmy Johnson used to videotape other teams’ signals, Terry Bradshaw has said they used to deflate footballs all the time. Hell, another team was busted for videotaping signals the year before spygate. What about Mike Tomlin interfering with a runner, or Joey Porter walking onto the field to incite a fight with Bengals players?

    It’s such nonsense to single Belichick out as though he’s done anything beyond what so many others have done. I’m not a Patriots fan, I just get sick of the bitterness so many people point their direction.

  121. I am so sick and tired of all of the former players convinced that their careers were tarnished / ruined by the New England Patriots. Jets, Colts , Steelers, Texans, Rams, Eagles, Panthers…
    Ravens , Broncos … On and on , the incessant whining about the Patriots cheated. The league covered it up, The Refs are in the Pats pockets… blah blah blah blah blah!!!

    Can you just except defeat with grace, and man-up and be a good sport???

  122. Bye Bye trolls, Goodell, cheaters and morons:

    2010:
    Bill Cowher: “You know, let me just say this: To answer your question, no, I don’t think so (it’s not an advantage for one team over another).
    I just know as a head coach, you are always looking for a competitive edge. We had people out there trying to look at signals. We had guys go to games. They would tape the signal caller and also write it down. They would take it back and match up the signals with the game film and certain defenses with certain plays that were being called, particularly the defenses being called, to see if we could come up with some kind of an alert for a signal. So, what they did with videotaping the signal caller, people do it with the people in the stands!!
    These people sitting there in the stands, looking at the signal, writing it down and matching up the 1st and 10 signal. Ok? Then you go back again and the 2nd and 10 and here’s the signal. You do that for a whole game.
    You then go back and match up the defenses with the signal. And you can come up with what the signal was.
    So, you don;’t need a video tape with what they were talking about doing. And people were doing it. WE were doing that. Everybody does that. You’re TRYING to gain a competitive edge. There is nothing wrong with that.
    That’s why baseball players go through the mirage of signals. They’ve got all these different codes. That’s part of the competitive spirit of the game. I think it’s totally overblown. I think if you get caught (signals compromised), then do what we did and go to wristbands, you are worried about it. We started putting defenses on wristbands. Then you find a way to not get caught (signals compromised). When your good at something and people try steal from ya, I think it’s flattering.”

  123. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:42 pm
    Bottom line: there is ZERO evidence that any person took any air whatsoever out of any football. The NFL even knows this now.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________
    Where there is smoke their is fire. The team is guilty of cheating in many eyes including mine and I’m not believing one bit New England is as innocent as Patriots fans claim they are. If there in the headlines, suspicion is already there.

    ———————
    Comments by fans of losing things is not smoke. I mean, you can smell it, but its still not smoke.

  124. Chill_Donahue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:20 pm
    bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    What evidence do you have that the “real” tapes were held back? And how are the Pats helped by refs when Dion Lewis was clearly and obviously down by contact, yet it was called a fumble against Jags? (see “leg catch”, Baldwin, Doug) or two other obvious uncalled PI’s committed on Gronk and Hogan? Bad calls go both ways.
    ********************************************************************************

    It was clearly a fumble having the ball trapped against your leg is not reestablishing possession of the ball. That was a TD for the jags that was taken away. There was one obvious PI against the Jags in the 2nd half that was called the other one called at the end of the first half was BS, not even close. There were no other PI calls against you that should have been called. Learn the rules.

    ==========

    So, you still have no backing info that the real tapes were held back. Gotcha.

    And Lewis secured the ball to his hip before losing it. If you can secure a ball with your leg (Baldwin) or helmet for that matter (Tyree), then obviously you can with your hip. Lewis had the ball on his hip and was down a moment before he lost it. If you think you can’t secure a ball with something other than your torso or your hands, then the Patriots should have a perfect season to celebrate.
    *****************************************************************************************
    No genius, the difference is the ball never hit the ground after they trapped the ball and were able to hold on to it. He lost the ball, trapped it, then it came out again at no point was he down with possession of the ball. And my point is the destroyed the evidence. Why would they destroy the tapes if there was nothing to hide? Answer that, I will wait.

  125. bigbadbills says:

    January 30, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    What evidence do you have that the “real” tapes were held back? And how are the Pats helped by refs when Dion Lewis was clearly and obviously down by contact, yet it was called a fumble against Jags? (see “leg catch”, Baldwin, Doug) or two other obvious uncalled PI’s committed on Gronk and Hogan? Bad calls go both ways.
    ********************************************************************************

    It was clearly a fumble having the ball trapped against your leg is not reestablishing possession of the ball. That was a TD for the jags that was taken away. There was one obvious PI against the Jags in the 2nd half that was called the other one called at the end of the first half was BS, not even close. There were no other PI calls against you that should have been called. Learn the rules.

    ======

    “learn the rules”? Cooks was pushed out of bounds and the DB never looked back for ball. Easy flag.

    And both Hogan and Gronk were PI’d with during Jags game. Maybe you should have watched it more closely.

  126. thetooloftools says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:00 am
    Why would the Boston Herald reported it if it wasn’t true? They did because it was true plane and simple.
    ====================
    I legit feel bad for you. Wow!

  127. Where there is smoke their is fire. The team is guilty of cheating in many eyes including mine and I’m not believing one bit New England is as innocent as Patriots fans claim they are. If there in the headlines, suspicion is already there.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Since the Tomlin era, the Steelers have cheated at least twice. Once by having their coach walk on the field and attempt to trip an opposing player. Secondly, by manually deflating footballs during a 2016 game against the Giants. You know, cause when there’s smoke, there’s fire.

  128. Deflect mode? I see you are a Gilmore fan..did you see him sky to deflect that pass to put the Patriots in their 10th Superbowl..man that was awesome.10 superbowls…that’s like saying superbowl 10 times.Brady has been to 8 of them.Do you know hom many other teams been to 10 Superbowls……0

  129. “And clearly taping signals has always been illegal. ”

    Really? Want to tell me why the league issued the memo in between the 2006 and 2007 seasons as to where it was legal to tape signals from?

    It must be a rule that Pats haters are the least informed fans of any sport of all time.

    Lolz

  130. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    And clearly taping signals has always been illegal

    ———–

    luckyforus incognito….where in the rule book is this rule stated?

  131. The 2001 Rams (503 pts) lost 20-17 against the Patriots (371 pts)
    +132 pts.

    The 2007 Patriots (589 pts) lost 17-14 against the Giants (373 pts).
    +216 pts.

    The 2013 Broncos (606 pts) lost 43-8 against the Seahawks (417 pts).
    +189 pts.

  132. sonscompass says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:15 pm
    “while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.”

    The Patriots went a decade between SB titles. That would be the weirdest “dynasty” I’ve heard of. It was more like 2 mini-dynasties seperated by 10 years. If you’re going to stretch it out like that, then the 49ers are the greatest dynasty with 5 championships in 14 seasons (81-94). The Pats took 16 seasons to win 5.

    When you can say that the 9ers won with one coach and one QB and no stickum over 16 years you have a case.

  133. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    Answer this ? Pats fans. Why would BB need to tape signals if he wasn’t using them in real time? If you have game tapes you can clearly see the defense called and the time and distance. So what purpose did the taping of signals serve?

    ……………..

    Why on earth would someone TAPE signals if they were observing and reacting to those signals in real time?

    “Bill!, Bill! … When the opponent’s coach sticks his finger in his ear, that means they’re going to blitz! I’ve got it all on tape!

    “Ok, great.”

    No, really. I’ve got it right here! … let me rewind.

    “I believe you.”

    “Hang on … noooo … that’s the chearleaders … almost there!

    “We don’t have time for this.”

    “Got it! Look! look!”

    “Uh … very nice … just as you described.”

    “Shall I tape another signal?”

    “You do that.”

    “By halftime I should have dozens of defensive signals! We can sit down and carefully analyze them!”

    “You do realize that halftime is only 15 minutes, right? … Why don’t you just keep an eye on the signal caller and take some notes. We can go over the tape during the week.”

  134. John Tomase admitted that he made up the story. He now works for WEEI.com and he also believes that Tom Brady and 80% of all NFL players are on steroids. For what it’s worth, he probably believes that Pace was on Steroids too.

    The Patriots won because they played an overly aggressive game, especially when it came to Marshall Faulk. They “chipped” him to the point where more penalties could have been called but weren’t. Ty Law and the Patriots secondary also got very physical with the smaller Rams receivers. In those days, before Polian got the rules changed, that was acceptable. You combine that with the pick 6 by Law and the Patriots made it a game and won at the final gun (they also changed the rule on the running off of time on field goals as they ran off the final seven seconds on that kick). Orlando Pace really has no realistic gripe. Lose like a man.

  135. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:48 pm
    Answer this ? Pats fans. Why would BB need to tape signals if he wasn’t using them in real time? If you have game tapes you can clearly see the defense called and the time and distance. So what purpose did the taping of signals serve?
    —————————————-
    belicheck has explained this – the tapes, as all teams did, reviewed them for tendencies to determine what formations and schemes were rune in different scenarios. Trended by teams as well as coaches.

    Answer me this – Walk us through exactly how this worked in ‘real time’ given the amount of time in between plays where there is limited time in which you can communicate to a headset or signal in your play. Show me the video that shows the Pat’s sideline waiting for the other team to signal in their play before they signal theirs. Because that would mean they have to know the other teams signals cold, quickly come up with a play to counter it and get it in. That would at least potentially support your theory. Please answer – the integrity of all spygate conspiracy theorists rests on your response.

    “””””
    First you need to answer my question. Every team has game tapes to easily review the tendencies, formations, schemes etc. Therefore what’s the purpose of taping signals when everyone has the game tapes.

    And there is no proof all teams were videotaping signals.

  136. steverolley says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:01 am
    Uhhh there is no evidence because the NFL destroyed the tape.

    If the NFL had shown what was on the tape maybe there would be closure… But it’s disingenuous to say there in no evidence when the key piece was destroyed.
    =============================
    The argument isn’t if the NFL showed the tape. They did. The argument is why the fans didn’t get to see the numerous other mythical tapes. You know, because one tape that showed them taping in the wrong location isn’t enough. Certainly more than one would provide the much needed closure.

  137. rhinojr says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:05 am
    Same exact thing happeend with the Panthers. First half the players said that the Patriots KNEW exactly the play called. In second half the Panthers changed up the signals and look what happened…scored a bunch of points and almost won.
    ===========================
    It had nothing to do with going to their third option. Or that RHarrison got hurt.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  138. steelcurtainn says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:38 pm
    There’s a big difference tho, The Steelers didn’t pick up trophies with asterisks along the way.

    ——————————-
    Neither did the Patriots. You should go up to Patriot place to check them out. They are beautiful and shiney.

    Unless you count Ancient history the Steelers didn’t pick up trophies

  139. bigbadbills says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:26 am
    ******************************

    LOL that is an outright lie. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the most bandwagon fans on earth. 17 consecutive blackouts in a row!
    ======================
    Jay Glazer says “Hi”.

    I guess you weren’t watching the pregame show when he aired the tape to millions.

  140. Hey Patriots haters…

    Please tell me if you have to take medicine for your Patriots obsession?I am doing a study on…I lied..I just want to know for the mere fact that it will really make my day.It is not limited to prescription any over the counter medicine will do..one more question..does your favorite commercial include the words upset stomach,heartburn,indegestion and diarrhea because that would make my day to.

  141. seahawkboymike says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:50 am
    Spygate, Deflategate, filming walkthroughs, the list go on and on.
    =====================
    Give me two more.

  142. Mr. Wright 212 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 12:14 pm
    Love watching Patriots fans in deflect mode.
    —————-
    Agreed, that was an amazing defensive play. I guess Gilmore wasnt a bust after all.

  143. I am in charge of a major newspaper. Our subscriber numbers dropped drastically. So I called in a staff meeting to brainstorm ideas of how we can increase our readership. One of my employees by the name of Orson Welles, suggests printing a FAKE NEWS story that Tom Brady can see into the future, hence can predict the exact spot his receivers are going to be when he makes a throw. That’s how his team is able to win championship games. They print the story, and the next day subscriptions go through the roof. We did that with our radio station as well, just changed the story a bit.

  144. This team’s history during the B.B. years will always be clouded by the question of cheating unlike the runs by the Packers, Steelers and 49’ers. Can argue the point all you want but it is the way it is and will always be.

  145. Come on man…the Pats should NOT have even been in the SB vs the Rams! Had it not been for the bogus overturned Brady fumble in the Divisional playoff game the week before, the AFC championship game would have been between the Raiders/Steelers!!!

  146. dcnupe3 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:57 am
    ===============

    How was it debunked? He met with the commissioner and afterwards the commissioner met with the Patriots, revealed the tapes, and then they were destroyed. If you call destroying evidence “debunking” then you’re more of a sheep than I thought. And lets ignore the fact that the Patriots had a person with the position of “Football Research Director” whose job was to manage all of this. Everyone in the organization knew it was going on, with a former Patriots assistant as saying “things got out of control,” in reference to the entire system of covert taping and signal decoding.

    But you’re right – Deflategate, SpyGate…they were all just pulled out of thin air. How’s that saying go? “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”…except at One Patriots Place LOL
    ====================
    So to clarify, when Goodell says Brady never talked to Jastremski prior to the SB (even though Brady admitted to doing so) we believe that. But when Goodell says the tapes Walsh provided was consistent with what the Patriots handed over we don’t believe that. LOL

  147. Might be hard to accept but the rams were beat up that game. The receivers were literally laying down rather than getting smacked. They were looking past the patriots to dynasty and their coach bought into the whole offensive genius title they gave him. If Madden had his way pats would have taken a knee rather than go for the win with Vinatieri.

  148. fireroger says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:57 pm
    rhinojr says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:05 am
    Same exact thing happeend with the Panthers. First half the players said that the Patriots KNEW exactly the play called. In second half the Panthers changed up the signals and look what happened…scored a bunch of points and almost won.
    ===========================
    It had nothing to do with going to their third option. Or that RHarrison got hurt.
    ——————————
    Both starting Patriot safeties were knocked out with serious injuries in that game.

  149. thetooloftools says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:00 am
    Why would the Boston Herald reported it if it wasn’t true? They did because it was true plane and simple

    ================================================

    because some smarmy little man of a reporter named ron borges hates belichick because bill doesnt want a little yes man to follow him around so that little yes man can get all the exclusives that dont exist. thats why.

  150. Somebody said Knuckle draggers, lmao. Ok if I was a Ram player / fan I would feel aggrieved but I am not. But it is sad that the New England Patriots do have certain issues more than one, concerning fair play because ironically they would still be the greatest team ever but outside of Patriot fans and players there will always be that ” Cheating thing ” hanging over. Patriot fans don’t care but it must be very annoying.

  151. What a complete joke of a franchise. Greatest show on turf cancelled for it’s 17th straight season & it couldn’t have happened to a bigger bunch of whiners. Eat some more pancakes, fatboy!

  152. Both starting Patriot safeties were knocked out with serious injuries in that game.

    “”””””

    Funny how Pats fan states injuries have an affect on a game.

    In the Seattle super bowl Sherman, Thomas and Chancellor played with significant injuries that required offseason surgery. But it wasn’t until both Lane and Avril left the game with injuries that Brady played well.

    It certainly wasn’t the same Seattle defense that Peyton faced. The hypocrisy of Pats fans continues.

  153. Hey it must be Superbowl time. So far we have had an Eagles coach, and 2 Ram players complain.
    RE: Tapes destroyed/Boston Herald–these are two separate incidents.IF you want to see what was on the evil tapes, it takes 2 seconds on google. Down and Distance–then the coach signal guy – rinse repeat. The Taped practice-there was never a tape because the dude did not have one. That story came out 3 months after deflate gate. I know the passage of time blends all the false stories and the real ones together…but the Rams are reacting to something that did not happen, and some idiot reporter didn’t do his due diligence on before publishing…not exactly shocking for the Herald.

  154. Tony Romo has been calling out plays from the braodcast booth all sseason and has been right more than he’s been wrong. Pretty sure Pats know about as much as Tony. Or, was Tony bugging locker rooms, taping walk throughs? The more complaints we hear about cheating the more we are assured that a lot of folks, many of the NFL player, really don’t understand the game. They are on a team because they are big, strong and fast. You can get bigger but the last 2 are perishable skills.

  155. fishyinalittledishy says:
    January 30, 2018 at 2:40 pm
    Somebody said Knuckle draggers, lmao. Ok if I was a Ram player / fan I would feel aggrieved but I am not. But it is sad that the New England Patriots do have certain issues more than one, concerning fair play because ironically they would still be the greatest team ever but outside of Patriot fans and players there will always be that ” Cheating thing ” hanging over. Patriot fans don’t care but it must be very annoying.

    It used to be but then we considered the source so now it just makes us sad for those who insist on remaining clueless or disingenuous.

  156. The biggest joke in sports is claiming the Pats cheated. Deflategate was a total joke and the video stuff everyone did, they put cameras in the wrong place it’s not like they were prevented. The NFL seriously has a problem with Patriot dominance and they have tried everything to stop it. One last point, when are they going to hire full time refs? It’s really atrocious

  157. Belichek just did what he always does, take what you do best away from you, in this case the deep ball. If Martz had made the adjustment and started to pound that rock with Faulk behind Pace, they certainly would have won. Instaead they kept passing and passing into the teeth of the Patriots defense plan.

  158. Goodell mishandled the tapes the same way he mishandled the issue of the underinflated balls, creating intrigue and drama for no reason. For a man who claims dedication to the “integrity of the shield,” he’s done more to needlessly cast doubt on the league’s integrity than anyone. This is what happens when you put a corporate hack in charge of a football league.

    As for the “Greatest Show on Turf” only winning one Super Bowl … the ’85 Bears won only one Super Bowl. The great Cowboys team led by Roger Staubach won only one Super Bowl. Unitas won only one Super Bowl. The fantastic Vikings teams of the 70s and Bills teams of the 90s that went to four Super Bowls each never won. Pace needs to be grateful and get over himself.

  159. Matt Walsh’s story was thoroughly debunked. And taping was AND STILL IS LEGAL. A league memo after ’06 season said you can’t do it from sidelines, and Pats still did for the ’07 opener against the Jets. League determined Pats weren’t using it during that game but they still broke the rule and got punished. Please do a little research.

    ===============

    How was it debunked? He met with the commissioner and afterwards the commissioner met with the Patriots, revealed the tapes, and then they were destroyed. If you call destroying evidence “debunking” then you’re more of a sheep than I thought.

    Matt Walsh never “revealed the tapes” because there were no walk-through tapes. He recanted his story, and the newspaper admitted there was nothing there.

    The “Spygate” tapes were destroyed per NE’s request by the league, they showed the sidelines during GAMES. It was legal (still is) to film opposing sidelines. The memo/”rule change” of 2006 concerned only WHERE cameras could be located. The Patriots were made an example of.

    These are two different things, so let me recap:

    walkthrough video = never happened, never existed, never “revealed” to Goodell by Matt Walsh
    sideline tapes = given to the league, shown at a press conference, then destroyed. the Pats (like every other team would be free to do) probably went right back to taping opposing sidelines but from the APPROVED location afterwards

    Holy cow. You are embarrassingly misinformed/mixed up and yet you speak with such an air of wannabe authority. Amazing. Run for president, maybe?

  160. It certainly wasn’t the same Seattle defense that Peyton faced.

    ——-

    yeah, like that first offensive play when the ball sailed by Peyton’s head into the end zone. awesome defensive play.

  161. Deb says:
    January 30, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    As for the “Greatest Show on Turf” only winning one Super Bowl … the ’85 Bears won only one Super Bowl. The great Cowboys team led by Roger Staubach won only one Super Bowl. Unitas won only one Super Bowl. The fantastic Vikings teams of the 70s and Bills teams of the 90s that went to four Super Bowls each never won.

    ——–

    you forgot to mention the Seahawks dynasty.

  162. So, according to Pace and all the hater’s logic, the following Superbowl winning teams MUST have taped their opponent’s walkthroughs:
    Jets
    Chiefs
    Raiders
    Redskins
    Giants
    Broncos
    Patriots
    Saints
    Seahawks
    Sometimes I wonder how such large parts of the population can be fooled so easily so often. Then I hear guys like this speak.
    Won’t be long before President Comacho gets elected. At least we’ll all be able to go to Costco.

  163. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:

    January 30, 2018 at 2:59 pm

    Both starting Patriot safeties were knocked out with serious injuries in that game.

    “”””””

    Funny how Pats fan states injuries have an affect on a game.

    In the Seattle super bowl Sherman, Thomas and Chancellor played with significant injuries that required offseason surgery. But it wasn’t until both Lane and Avril left the game with injuries that Brady played well.

    It certainly wasn’t the same Seattle defense that Peyton faced. The hypocrisy of Pats fans continues.

    ==========================

    Pats won SB last year without Gronk and are back this year without their most reliable receiver and best linebacker for most of the year. Injuries happen and have huge effect on games obviously. The teams that adapt and overcome the best are the ones left standing at the end.

  164. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    And there is no proof all teams were videotaping signals.

    ———

    and there is no proof anyone deflated Patriots balls. you’ll go on claiming all the circumstantial evidence, like you have in the past again and again, but that’s not proof.

    however when former coaches like Cowher and Johnson said everyone did it, I’d tend to believe them.

  165. @the evidencesaysotherwise:
    in response to:
    First you need to answer my question. Every team has game tapes to easily review the tendencies, formations, schemes etc. Therefore what’s the purpose of taping signals when everyone has the game tapes.

    And there is no proof all teams were videotaping signals.
    ——————————————–
    Two points; as you point out they already have game tapes!!! they can see signals, not clearly but they can,so the whole thing is moot.
    Secondly, the additional taping does more clearly focus on the signals. However, that is only so good to the point of what play was called. When paired with game tape, if there was an audible or an adjustment, that can be correlated to what action you took that caused them to make the adjustment. Game tape alone can’t do that for you, it only shows you the result, not the call. If the team called for and presented cover two for example, and then ended up going man because the LB called for it, the fact that changed could be determined only with knowing the signals. So then I’d want to know why the adjustment and I can use that in future games to my advantage. The tendencies aren’t just in the original call but in how the whole game played out. Now – explain how it’s used in real time.

  166. Does anyone REALLY think that, had the Patriots actually been cheating in other ways, Belichick would have willingly handed over to the NFL office videotape cassettes showing clear evidence of that cheating? Seriously?

    The Pats were asked to turn over evidence of their filming of signals from locations that were not approved by the league rules, which Belichick freely admitted to doing. That was what the Jets accused them of doing in September 2007. Those were the tapes that the NFL office destroyed. That—and only that—was Spygate. The NFL office actually allowed footage from these tapes to be broadcast on TV.

    But do you really, REALLY think that Belichick—the evil genius hoody wearing monster—tossed in a few additional tapes that included footage of clandestine filming of other team’s practices, the Rams’ walk thru, or other clear evidence of other forms of cheating? Basically, stuff that the NFL office had not even asked for. Belichick just said, “Aw, shucks. You guys finally caught us. We’ll come clean. The signals filming is only the tip of the iceberg. We’ve been up to a ton of other stuff for years. See for yourself. Here are examples of all the other ways we’ve been using them cameras. You caught us. We’re guilty. We can’t live with the guilt any longer. So here’s everything. Do what you want with it. Just maybe delete it all when you’ve had a chance to look at it….”

    People just do not use common sense.

  167. The charges, the fine, the lost draft picks, the investigation, and reports, the hush money, the destroyed tapes, etc. all point to one thing that the Patriots’ fans continue to deny. And why shouldn’t they? When Brady was ordering his toadies to deflate footballs, every Patriots’ fan suddenly had a PhD in the ideal gas law. Patriots cheat. Plain and simple. That’s why they have an asterisk next to every Superbowl win.

  168. Its funny how none of the many players who played for the Patriots over the past 18 years have ever come out and said “Guess what, we cheated in New England! and here’s how…..”

    Even though many have gone on to other teams later, including Patriot-haters/rivals elsewhere, such as Aqib Talib, Richard Seymour, Ty Law, Derrell Revis, Randy Moss, Damien Woody, Jamie Collins, Chandler Jones, LaGarret Blount, Chris Long, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Drew Bledsoe, Lawyer Malloy). If they really cheated at least some of them would have spilled the beans after the fact. Guys sell their Super Bowl rings to pawn shops for goodness sake

    You know why that’s never happened? Because they didn’t cheat. Get over it haters.

  169. @the evidencesaysotherwise:
    in response to:
    First you need to answer my question. Every team has game tapes to easily review the tendencies, formations, schemes etc. Therefore what’s the purpose of taping signals when everyone has the game tapes.

    And there is no proof all teams were videotaping signals.
    ——————————————–
    Two points; as you point out they already have game tapes!!! they can see signals, not clearly but they can,so the whole thing is moot.
    Secondly, the additional taping does more clearly focus on the signals. However, that is only so good to the point of what play was called. When paired with game tape, if there was an audible or an adjustment, that can be correlated to what action you took that caused them to make the adjustment. Game tape alone can’t do that for you, it only shows you the result, not the call. If the team called for and presented cover two for example, and then ended up going man because the LB called for it, the fact that changed could be determined only with knowing the signals. So then I’d want to know why the adjustment and I can use that in future games to my advantage. The tendencies aren’t just in the original call but in how the whole game played out. Now – explain how it’s used in real time.

    “”””””””

    Point 1. Cameras used to record games aren’t focused on the signals from the sidelines so it’s doubtful you can pick signals up on a game tape.

    Point 2. All you need to know is the defensive formation actually run based upon your formation. The defense originally called is useless info. All you have to do is watch the different formations of the offense, motion etc. and you can determine from the tapes what the likely defense formation will be by studying the tapes. You may not know the original defense because it’s disguised but only the final defense matters.

    So once again give me a non bogus reason why BB was taping signals.

  170. tylawspick6 says:

    2010:
    Bill Cowher: “You know, let me just say this: To answer your question, no, I don’t think so (it’s not an advantage for one team over another). I just know as a head coach, you are always looking for a competitive edge. We had people out there trying to look at signals. We had guys go to games. They would tape the signal caller and also write it down. …

    —————————

    Cowher’s comments on this back then settled the whole thing for me just as the other quarterbacks talking about how they adjust the inflation in balls settled that issue. The reality is that ALL teams are constantly looking for a competitive edge. The players claiming the Pats somehow cheated them out of a win are bitter because they were outplayed. The fans whining about cheating are sore losers. As a Steelers fan, I remember whining that our team cheated and paid refs when we won, and I’d never do that to another team. It’s petty.

  171. So once again give me a non bogus reason why BB was taping signals.

    ——

    earlier you stated that it is clearly illegal to tape signals. Everyone on here debating you whats to see that rule before we came playing this game.

    That is the starting point. You need to prove it is illegal before anything else even matters.

    You played this game during deflategate, under a different screen name. Every comment you made you moved the goal posts further down the field.

    So first, prove that taping is illegal, as you have claimed.

  172. takeyourpunishmentandquitwhininglikeababy says:

    January 30, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    The charges, the fine, the lost draft picks, the investigation, and reports, the hush money, the destroyed tapes, etc. all point to one thing that the Patriots’ fans continue to deny. And why shouldn’t they? When Brady was ordering his toadies to deflate footballs, every Patriots’ fan suddenly had a PhD in the ideal gas law. Patriots cheat. Plain and simple. That’s why they have an asterisk next to every Superbowl win.

    ===============

    So you must REALLY dislike the Montana dynasty where there was actual admitted cheating (stickum, silicon spray on linemen uniforms, PEDs). Too bad physics and Goodell’s own investigative incompetence disproved deflategate, not disputable.

  173. takeyourpunishmentandquitwhininglikeababy says:
    January 30, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    When Brady was ordering his toadies to deflate footballs, every Patriots’ fan suddenly had a PhD in the ideal gas law.

    ——————
    I recall the educational requirement was proven to be somewhere lower than 7th grade.

  174. Deb says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Cowher’s comments on this back then settled the whole thing for me just as the other quarterbacks talking about how they adjust the inflation in balls settled that issue. The reality is that ALL teams are constantly looking for a competitive edge. The players claiming the Pats somehow cheated them out of a win are bitter because they were outplayed. The fans whining about cheating are sore losers. As a Steelers fan, I remember whining that our team cheated and paid refs when we won, and I’d never do that to another team. It’s petty

    —–

    From a Patriots fan to a Steelers fan….Thank you for your honesty.

  175. 345snarkavenue says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:11 pm
    So once again give me a non bogus reason why BB was taping signals.

    ——

    earlier you stated that it is clearly illegal to tape signals. Everyone on here debating you whats to see that rule before we came playing this game.

    That is the starting point. You need to prove it is illegal before anything else even matters.

    You played this game during deflategate, under a different screen name. Every comment you made you moved the goal posts further down the field.

    So first, prove that taping is illegal, as you have claimed.

    ———————-
    Allow me to help….

    http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/digestofrules

  176. Both starting Patriot safeties were knocked out with serious injuries in that game.

    “”””””

    Funny how Pats fan states injuries have an affect on a game.

    In the Seattle super bowl Sherman, Thomas and Chancellor played with significant injuries that required offseason surgery. But it wasn’t until both Lane and Avril left the game with injuries that Brady played well.

    It certainly wasn’t the same Seattle defense that Peyton faced. The hypocrisy of Pats fans continues.

    ==========================

    Pats won SB last year without Gronk and are back this year without their most reliable receiver and best linebacker for most of the year. Injuries happen and have huge effect on games obviously. The teams that adapt and overcome the best are the ones left standing at the end.

    “””””

    So you totally miss my point. I’m not surprised the comprehension level on this site is horrendous.

    My point was that Pat fans are hypocrites.

    It was stated the Panthers came back on the Pats because of injuries. My response was Pats fans compare the Seattle defense the Pats played vs the defense Peyton played. It clearly wasn’t the same defense just like the Pats defense wasn’t the same when the safeties were injured. I’m not making any excuses but simply pointing out the hypocrisy of Pats fans.

    Same thing with holding. Every Pats fan whines about all the holding against Gronk but deny it when the Pats do it against other teams. Instead Pats fans lie and state that Polian is a whiner who tried to change the rules when in fact Polian only tried to get the existing rules enforced.

    How many times have I heard Pats fans accuse the Colts of deflating their footballs because 3/4 were below 12.5 psi. The fact is the deflator had control of the Colts footballs pregame so there’s no way you can prove it.

    How many times have I heard Pats fans say Brady didn’t have to turn over his personal phone. The fact is he was never asked to turn over his phone.

    And the science argument. Fact is none of these scientists ever tested footballs used in a NFL game under the same weather conditions.

    And no Pats fan has ever explained all the circumstantial evidence in deflategate or why BB was taping signals if he wasn’t using them in real time.

    Instead it’s just lies, deflectiions, blaming others, conspiracy theories etc. It’s because all Pats fans know the real truth is their team cheated in both gates and they’re throwing crap on the wall hoping something will stick.

  177. You’re delusional if you believe all the tapes were shown. Everyone knows they showed tapes with nothing on them, then destroyed all of them. Perfect way to cover up the cheating BS. The NFL has manufactured the Pats to be relevant to put bandwagon fans in the seats. Its the only explanation as to the cover-ups like the botched deflate-gate investigation or the fact week after week, year after year the pats win with the help of refs. This year alone the pats won against Houston, NY Jets, Buffalo and Pittsburgh because of the refs and refs alone. You can’t even argue that.
    ____

    Why does the league want the Pats to win? What do they gain by doing that?

    Got an answer to that? Or you just making stuff up?

  178. tylawspick6 says:

    2010:
    Bill Cowher: “You know, let me just say this: To answer your question, no, I don’t think so (it’s not an advantage for one team over another). I just know as a head coach, you are always looking for a competitive edge. We had people out there trying to look at signals. We had guys go to games. They would tape the signal caller and also write it down. …

    “”””

    Changing Cowher’s words I see. In 2014 Cowher said all teams tried to steal signals. Cowher also said the Pats we’re guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do it. And then he said they got caught doing it with a CAMERA.

    Tony Dungy said the same thing last year when a report came out that the Colts taped signals. Dungy clearly admitted teams tried to steal signals but no technology was used by the Colts. They used their eyes. Big difference.

  179. Lemmy Aksyadis says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:42 pm
    sonscompass says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:15 pm
    “while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.”

    The Patriots went a decade between SB titles. That would be the weirdest “dynasty” I’ve heard of. It was more like 2 mini-dynasties seperated by 10 years. If you’re going to stretch it out like that, then the 49ers are the greatest dynasty with 5 championships in 14 seasons (81-94). The Pats took 16 seasons to win 5.

    When you can say that the 9ers won with one coach and one QB and no stickum over 16 years you have a case.

    Lol this makes zero sense. Since when are dynasty’s limited to one coach or one player? TEAMS have dynasties. As for the stickum, why even bring that up? The Pats have been punished multiple times for cheating, the 49ers weren’t. If cheating = no dynasty, the Pats haven’t had a dynasty. I don’t even hate the Pats. I love how much they irritate the Steelers…but you Pats “fans” really make it hard to like them. So defensive. So arrogant. So annoying.

  180. bigbadbills says:

    No genius, the difference is the ball never hit the ground after they trapped the ball and were able to hold on to it. He lost the ball, trapped it, then it came out again at no point was he down with possession of the ball. And my point is the destroyed the evidence. Why would they destroy the tapes if there was nothing to hide? Answer that, I will wait.

    ==============

    The Lewis football never hit the ground either before he secured the ball to his hip and was down by contact. Not sure where you got that. I’m not a genius, I just watched the replay a few times.

    And why would the NFL show the tapes to the public if they were hiding something? They don’t normally publicize their punishment proceedings (ie see Brady appeal transcript in which NFL sought to have sealed, but it was made public and showed Goodell’s attys lied in court). Why would a newspaper sully its own reputation by printing a front and backpage retraction? You can create any conspiracy narrative you want, but you have to get pretty creative as there isn’t any proof to what your saying.

  181. Tee hee 🙂 Patriot Hater is too dumb to realize it but we thoroughly enjoy the hilarity when they post paragraph after paragraph trying to convince themselves that their inferior team really beat or deserved to beat the Patriots because they must have cheated or something. 🙂

    Keep it going cupcakes! This topic is full of comedy gold!

    Just… epic.

    🙂

  182. Why does the league want the Pats to win? What do they gain by doing that?

    —-
    After the league completely fabricated a cheating scandal to suspend Brady and hurt the Patriots on the field because a few teams (and by association their inferior fans) simply aren’t man enough to put in the work and effort to get better and compete with the 5 time World Champions… suspending Tom Brady for no real reason at all other than to demonstrate that they can…dragging his name literally and figuratively through the courts… having the commissioner publicly label Brady a cheat…. and Patriot Hater still thinks the league loves them some Patriots.

    Yep. You just aren’t very bright are ya. Tee hee 🙂

  183. By the way… there is only one reason why the tapes were destroyed. I’m not going to say how I know this but I just do 🙂

    Because other teams were seen doing the same thing, taping from the sidelines.

    Nothing more.

    Nothing less.

    And if word got out that the dope we have as commissioner pounded his chest and made an example of one team over this even though other teams did it too… well we can’t have that now can we.

    It’s ok. A book is being written right now documenting all of this and the truth will come out one day.

    Are you scared Patriot Hater? 🙂

    Yeah.

    You scared.

  184. sonscompass says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:48 pm

    Lol this makes zero sense. Since when are dynasty’s limited to one coach or one player? TEAMS have dynasties. As for the stickum, why even bring that up? The Pats have been punished multiple times for cheating, the 49ers weren’t. If cheating = no dynasty, the Pats haven’t had a dynasty. I don’t even hate the Pats. I love how much they irritate the Steelers…but you Pats “fans” really make it hard to like them. So defensive. So arrogant. So annoying

    ————————
    I have to ask, but if you are on this article about the Patriots and the Bucs to argue with Patriots fans about your 49rs how does that make them the arrogant ones? After all, you are the aggressor coming in from the outside to push your team.

    And if you find Patriots fans so annoying why do you go onto their articles to engage them in conversation? If you really felt that way would you not withdraw from the annoyance.

    And you dont like discussing the stickum, are you saying then that cheating is ok? You sound almost like you condemn it if accusing the Patriots but you think the 49rs cheating is ok.

  185. From Tony Dungy in 2017

    “What was different with Spygate is that teams had been specifically instructed not to videotape opposing teams signals on the sideline during a game and the Patriots did it anyway. It wasn’t getting signals, it was the processing of videotaping and using electronic equipment during the game Dungy also said of the difference between the Patriots and other teams.”

    So I’m going with Tony, but I know all you Pats fans will argue it was only the placement of the camera even though teams were specifically instructed not to do so.

    So both Cowher and Dungy stated they did not use cameras to video tape signals.

    And a Pats guy was kicked out of Green Bay in 2016 for videotaping on the sideline so the Pats knew it wasn’t allowed.

  186. Lol this makes zero sense. Since when are dynasty’s limited to one coach or one player? TEAMS have dynasties. As for the stickum, why even bring that up? The Pats have been punished multiple times for cheating, the 49ers weren’t. If cheating = no dynasty, the Pats haven’t had a dynasty. I don’t even hate the Pats. I love how much they irritate the Steelers…but you Pats “fans” really make it hard to like them. So defensive. So arrogant. So annoying.

    Why bring up stickum in a comment that challenges pats fans due to “cheating” by their team? Gee, I dunno, maybe stickum was, ya know, cheating? Nothing in your original comment makes sence BTW. It was simply another attempt to irritate people. Just because you didn’t get caught doesn’t mean you weren’t cheating. Rice admitted using stickum so, asterisk, right?

  187. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:

    January 30, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    And a Pats guy was kicked out of Green Bay in 2016 for videotaping on the sideline so the Pats knew it wasn’t allowed.

    ===============

    False. Sorry man, I know you want it to be true. Pats didn’t play GB in 2016. And Schottenheimer and Jimmy Johnson also tried to tape, but said it didn’t help.

  188. Four Wheel Low says:
    January 30, 2018 at 1:25 pm
    usdcoyotesfan says:
    January 30, 2018 at 10:57 am
    while the Patriots were just beginning the greatest dynasty in NFL history.
    —————————————————————
    The Patriots won 5 rings in less than a decade like the Packers?

    —————+
    The Packers never won 5 rings. They dont give Superbowl rings for winning their county.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    The Packers won 5 championships and lost one in 7 years. No team has equaled that. And in case you aren’t old enough to remember — they won in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, and 1967. The three NFL championships in a row has only been done by one other team — the 1929, 30, and 31 Packers teams.
    The Pats have done a great job during their run. But it in no way diminishes what those Packers teams did.

  189. rhinojr says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:05 am

    Same exact thing happeend with the Panthers. First half the players said that the Patriots KNEW exactly the play called. In second half the Panthers changed up the signals and look what happened…scored a bunch of points and almost won.

    ——–

    Sure. That’s why each team did all their scoring in the 2nd and 4th quarters, and went scoreless in the 1st and 3rd —— because only the Pats knew what was coming. Break out your tinfoil hat.

  190. sonscompass says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:48 pm

    Lol this makes zero sense. Since when are dynasty’s limited to one coach or one player? TEAMS have dynasties. As for the stickum, why even bring that up? The Pats have been punished multiple times for cheating, the 49ers weren’t. If cheating = no dynasty, the Pats haven’t had a dynasty. I don’t even hate the Pats. I love how much they irritate the Steelers…but you Pats “fans” really make it hard to like them. So defensive. So arrogant. So annoying

    ==========

    Pats were punished, 49ers ADMITTED it. (stickum, silicon spray on jerseys, PEDs)

  191. tylawspick6 says:

    Losers refuse to learn, are entitled narcissists, and sit in basements posting on messageboards all day and night.
    =====

    OH the irony………………………..

  192. The Pats have done a great job during their run. But it in no way diminishes what those Packers teams did.

    —-
    Well… i could say it’s apples and oranges. 🙂

    The Patriots won 5 Super Bowl championships in a 32 team league. The 60s Packers won 4 NFL Championships in a 14 team league with a playoff format that resembles absolutely nothing to the modern day playoffs… and 1 Super Bowl title.

    Not even close to the same thing.

  193. For the “The NFL destroyed the tapes, it means something extra sinister was going on” crowd, the NFL generally does not share the details of their investigations with the public. Did anyone see the results of any of the tests performed to prove the Falcons were pumping in crowd noise? Were the interviews with the Falcons staff ever made public? Did the league ever publish the evidence that the Chiefs tampered with Jeremy Maclin? Was the tape the Broncos made of the 49ers practice ever shown on TV? Did we ever see the texts the Browns GM was sending to the coaches on the sideline?

    None of the information in these situations was ever shared publicly, beyond a description of the infraction. Based on Patriots-hater logic, all these teams were committing much worse rules violations and the league is covering it up by not publishing all the evidence.

    Really, though, it doesn’t matter if the NFL set up a website where people could view all the tapes they confiscated from the Patriots and Matt Walsh on demand, 24 hours a day for free. The haters would still claim that wasn’t “all” the tapes and the league was hiding the really bad stuff.

  194. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:41 pm
    ——
    Colts fan huh?

    Tell me… why haven’t the Colts finished over .500 since the league started cracking down on PSI in footballs after the Colts footballs were found to be under inflated the night of the 2014 AFC Championshio game?

    Why does Luck get so easily injured since then? He was never known to be made of glass.

    It’s ok I already know why…and so do you. Man that must sting… to be proven that you really are nothing when the cheating stops.

    Ouch!

    🙂

  195. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    From Tony Dungy in 2017

    “What was different with Spygate is that teams had been specifically instructed not to videotape opposing teams signals on the sideline during a game and the Patriots did it anyway. It wasn’t getting signals, it was the processing of videotaping and using electronic equipment during the game Dungy also said of the difference between the Patriots and other teams.”

    So I’m going with Tony, but I know all you Pats fans will argue it was only the placement of the camera even though teams were specifically instructed not to do so.
    ——————————–

    You can go with Tony all you want, but he is wrong. After all, the evidence says otherwise.

  196. I love how Rams players love talking about walk-throughs and redzone. St Louis beat reporters from that Rams era described that pre-Super Bowl walkthru like it was a picnic. Families were on the field. People were eating. Tons of photos were being taken. The Rams felt like they already won by showing up.

    And the Redzone. There were officially 1 of 1 in redzone trips with the game tying TD come just a few yards from outside the 20. So really they were 2 or 2 for 100%. Oh, and that other score? It was Kurt Warners’ first rushing TD of his career. It wasn’t like anyone saw it coming.

    Also, if you’re gonna cheat (which no one did) wouldn’t you blow the other team out? Why keep it close? The Rams player totally lack logic. It’s weak.

  197. mullman76 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:32 pm
    The NFL destroyed the tapes.
    Fact.
    Nothing else needs to be said, the action speaks for itself.
    Enjoy the rest of your day.

    ———

    I’ll bite… What exactly do you think was on the tapes? The Patriots voluntarily turned over all the tapes. They contained the Patriots film of opposing teams sidelines since Belichick got there. They weren’t hiding it. They were filming the sidelines openly. So assume they had film of your favorite teams sideline from every time they played the Patriots. That happens to be what they were punished for also.

  198. johnwaldron8 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 5:47 pm
    For the “The NFL destroyed the tapes, it means something extra sinister was going on” crowd, the NFL generally does not share the details of their investigations with the public. Did anyone see the results of any of the tests performed to prove the Falcons were pumping in crowd noise? Were the interviews with the Falcons staff ever made public? Did the league ever publish the evidence that the Chiefs tampered with Jeremy Maclin? Was the tape the Broncos made of the 49ers practice ever shown on TV? Did we ever see the texts the Browns GM was sending to the coaches on the sideline?
    None of the information in these situations was ever shared publicly, beyond a description of the infraction. Based on Patriots-hater logic, all these teams were committing much worse rules violations and the league is covering it up by not publishing all the evidence.
    Really, though, it doesn’t matter if the NFL set up a website where people could view all the tapes they confiscated from the Patriots and Matt Walsh on demand, 24 hours a day for free. The haters would still claim that wasn’t “all” the tapes and the league was hiding the really bad stuff.

    ————

    Here’s the thing… even if the Patriots were so diabolical to secretly film walkthroughs they would have never given the tapes to Goodell. He was after tape from he sidelines which the Patriots were doing fully in the open. THe Patriots voluntarily handed them over. Goodell destroyed them so the Patriots wouldn’t have them anymore. It was probably every team the Patriots played. Then the Patriots were punished accordingly.

    If it were anything more the Patriots would not have given them to Goodell. That would be stupid.

    So even if you are in the conspiracy camp, your conspiracy theory makes no sense.

  199. The Patriots won 5 Super Bowl championships in a 32 team league. The 60s Packers won 4 NFL Championships in a 14 team league with a playoff format that resembles absolutely nothing to the modern day playoffs… and 1 Super Bowl title.
    =====

    More talent filling less teams.

    More teams with FAR less talent, especially at QB.

    Easy to see which scenario would be harder to achieve victory………

  200. aarons444 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 5:16 pm
    Patriots – the Barry Bonds of the NFL

    ——-

    Green Bay cheating scandals during their Championship years were much worse. Guys betting on their own games. Shameful.

  201. aarons444 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 6:46 pm
    The Patriots won 5 Super Bowl championships in a 32 team league. The 60s Packers won 4 NFL Championships in a 14 team league with a playoff format that resembles absolutely nothing to the modern day playoffs… and 1 Super Bowl title.
    =====

    More talent filling less teams.

    More teams with FAR less talent, especially at QB.

    Easy to see which scenario would be harder to achieve victory………

    —-
    Simple math, really. First in a league of 32 and then up to 3 or 4 playoff games is far harder than first in a league of 14 and the only “playoff game” is the championship.

    And of course todays athletes would obliterate athletes from back then.
    Not to mention the much lower bar back then when it came to the word “athlete”.

    🙂

  202. Geesh…. for all you people saying the refs handed the Pats their victory over the Steelers this year — that call on Jesse James’ where he let the ball hit the ground while he was still in the process of making the catch was 100% correct. The officials were absolutely right to overturn the TD call.
    If you have a problem with the rules — and everyone does — do not blame the officials because as soon as you do that, your credibility goes right out the window.
    I’m a Packers fan. We get accused all the time of having the officials in our back pockets. it’s an absolute joke.
    Here’s one that happened to them in the wild card game in the playoffs in 1999 against Jerry Rice and the Niners. Late in the game with the Packers leading, Steve Young was driving the Niners down the field. He threw a pass to Jerry Rice on the right side down the field. Rice caught it and was hit by two Packers defenders. He immediately fumbled the ball and a Packers player jumped on it. The officials said he was down by contact and there was no fumble. Steve Young then threw a TD to Terrell Owens to win the game as time was running out. There was no replay system in place, but the tv replays clearly showed it was a fumble and it should have been Packers ball and maybe game over. But it wasn’t to be. I will never forget it and it was a heart breaker. But do I cry about it? No way. The officials called it the way they saw it and that’s all there is to it. if the Packers defense could have stopped Young from hitting Owens with that pass, it wouldn’t have mattered, but they didn’t, so the loss is on them.
    Bad calls happen in every game to every team. The officials do not make them based on who is playing. If anyone believes that all the different officials have favored the Pats for the last 15 years to help them win Super Bowls, I have a bridge to sell you. You probably stop at super market check outs to read the National Enquirer to catch up on the latest news.

  203. @theevidencesaysotherwise/luckyforus

    You going to keep ducking the question of what exactly the nfl rule is about taping signals being illegal?

    As usual, when people start asking you questions about your proof (you have none) your arguments & claims evolve. You ask questions that nobody knows the answer to, including you.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if you post at 8:59 pm…..thats your usual Mo.

    In the meantime, troll on.

  204. And a Pats guy was kicked out of Green Bay in 2016 for videotaping on the sideline so the Pats knew it wasn’t allowed.

    ===============

    False. Sorry man, I know you want it to be true. Pats didn’t play GB in 2016.

    “”””””

    Oops I meant 2006 but you probably knew that. The year before Spygate.

  205. Patriots are the 1st team to play in the superbowl 10 times…..ever.
    Now say that 10 times real fast and you know what you will hear?…Not your team.
    Like I really care what you haters think…you are inferior…not jealous…inferior.

  206. nyneal says:
    January 30, 2018 at 7:37 pm
    Geesh…. for all you people saying the refs handed the Pats their victory over the Steelers this year — that call on Jesse James’ where he let the ball hit the ground while he was still in the process of making the catch was 100% correct. The officials were absolutely right to overturn the TD call.

    ——————-
    To be honest, I gave never cared what their excuse was on that play. For any team to start crying that getting matched to a team they couldnt beat meant they were unfairly bounced out of the playoffs is lame and ridiculous.

  207. You going to keep ducking the question of what exactly the nfl rule is about taping signals being illegal?

    As usual, when people start asking you questions about your proof (you have none) your arguments & claims evolve. You ask questions that nobody knows the answer to, including you.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if you post at 8:59 pm…..thats your usual Mo.

    In the meantime, troll on.

    “”””””

    I gave you 2 examples of well respected coaches that stated using cameras to videotape signals was the issue with the Pats. The NFL limited the areas you could video tape because they didn’t want teams to tape signals and use them in real time.

    In 2006 the Packers caught the Pats videotaping signals and told the guy to stop. He continued secretly taping signals from the tunnel until he was thrown out of the stadium.

    If taping signals was legal why did Green Bay stop it? Why did the league issue the memo after the Green Bay issue restricting the areas you could tape? It’s obvious as Dungy and Cowher explains the NFL didn’t want signals to be taped.

    I also explained there’s no reason to have the signals on tape unless you were using them in real time.

    It’s now 8:49 so I’m early with my post.

  208. While we’re talking about cheating, what about Peyton & the Colts in his rookie season? The season that Tarik Glenn said they used hearing aids to help Peyton in loud stadiums.

    Of course it did’t help much.

  209. You can go with Tony all you want, but he is wrong. After all, the evidence says otherwise.

    “”””

    Tony is right. You accuse anyone with a reasonable response supported by facts as wrong. You guys have no facts just unsupported assumptions to fit your conclusions.

  210. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    You going to keep ducking the question of what exactly the nfl rule is about taping signals being illegal?

    As usual, when people start asking you questions about your proof (you have none) your arguments & claims evolve. You ask questions that nobody knows the answer to, including you.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if you post at 8:59 pm…..thats your usual Mo.

    In the meantime, troll on.

    “”””””

    I gave you 2 examples of well respected coaches that stated using cameras to videotape signals was the issue with the Pats. The NFL limited the areas you could video tape because they didn’t want teams to tape signals and use them in real time.

    In 2006 the Packers caught the Pats videotaping signals and told the guy to stop. He continued secretly taping signals from the tunnel until he was thrown out of the stadium.

    If taping signals was legal why did Green Bay stop it? Why did the league issue the memo after the Green Bay issue restricting the areas you could tape? It’s obvious as Dungy and Cowher explains the NFL didn’t want signals to be taped.

    I also explained there’s no reason to have the signals on tape unless you were using them in real time.

    It’s now 8:49 so I’m early with my post.

    =========================

    Memo is not a rule change, sorry man, you lost again. Signal stealing is part of the game as admitted by multiple well known, well tenured coaches. And your speculation that tapes were used in real time was debunked by the league investigation and is not supported anywhere. Its pure speculation on your part. If you know a teams signs, you use it the next time you play them. The Pats stopped and have been even more dominant. Get some sleep

  211. aarons444 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    The Patriots won 5 Super Bowl championships in a 32 team league. The 60s Packers won 4 NFL Championships in a 14 team league with a playoff format that resembles absolutely nothing to the modern day playoffs… and 1 Super Bowl title.
    =====

    More talent filling less teams.

    More teams with FAR less talent, especially at QB.

    Easy to see which scenario would be harder to achieve victory………\

    =================================

    Agree 1000%, its much, much harder to dominate over a prolonged period in todays game. Free agency and expansion along with better training, position specialization, coaching, and technology make todays game much harder to stay on top for years on end. Its not even close.

  212. Just looking at the difference in wording between this article, and, say, the Dion Lewis article about the Eagles shows some noticeable bias in the writing.

    As a side note to the posters…Even if you don’t think it was illegal, why would you brag about needing to steal signals to win games? Good teams shouldn’t have to do that.

  213. ak185 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 11:09 pm
    Just looking at the difference in wording between this article, and, say, the Dion Lewis article about the Eagles shows some noticeable bias in the writing

    ———-

    I re-read both articles……i don’t see the bias. Please share what you see that I don’t, I’m curious as to what you mean.

  214. “I gave you 2 examples of well respected coaches that stated using cameras to videotape signals was the issue with the Pats.”

    “I also explained there’s no reason to have the signals on tape unless you were using them in real time.”

    ________

    Opinions and speculation are not rules.

    Again, what rule indicates taping signals is illegal? No anecdotes, just present the rule.

  215. Deb says:
    January 30, 2018 at 3:13 pm
    Goodell mishandled the tapes the same way he mishandled the issue of the underinflated balls, creating intrigue and drama for no reason. For a man who claims dedication to the “integrity of the shield,” he’s done more to needlessly cast doubt on the league’s integrity than anyone. This is what happens when you put a corporate hack in charge of a football league.
    ========================
    A thousand times this !!!!

    ~Pats fan

  216. And of course todays athletes would obliterate athletes from back then.
    Not to mention the much lower bar back then when it came to the word “athlete”.
    =====

    We’ll never know what yesterdays athletes would be with todays modern medicine and training methods… and supplements…

  217. takeyourpunishmentandquitwhininglikeababy says:
    January 30, 2018 at 3:41 pm
    The charges, the fine, the lost draft picks, the investigation, and reports, the hush money, the destroyed tapes, etc. all point to one thing that the Patriots’ fans continue to deny. And why shouldn’t they? When Brady was ordering his toadies to deflate footballs, every Patriots’ fan suddenly had a PhD in the ideal gas law. Patriots cheat. Plain and simple. That’s why they have an asterisk next to every Superbowl win.
    ================================
    When the final report implicating tampering adjusts the locker room temperature based on what gauge was used you know they got it wrong.

    #NoPhDNeeded

  218. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    And no Pats fan has ever explained all the circumstantial evidence in deflategate or why BB was taping signals if he wasn’t using them in real time.
    ==================
    I’d be careful wielding that comprehension axe. Just sayin’.

    The Dolphins synched up signals from the game tape to the coaches tape. It’s largely what precipitated Spygate to begin with as the NFL condoned it when Belichick inquired to the league office. The relevant point here is that you don’t need the signals real time to figure it out. The Dolphins established that well before hand.

    So now that it’s been explained to you feel free to provide an excuse as to how it’s bogus or some other ridiculous reason for you to continue on with your rant.

  219. its much, much harder to dominate over a prolonged period in todays game. Free agency and expansion along with better training, position specialization, coaching, and technology make todays game much harder to stay on top for years on end. Its not even close.
    =====

    Really?

    Which is why the Pats own hte League, and the same handful of teams have been at the top the last 20 years?

    Same as the Cowboys, 9ers, Steelers, Packers………….

  220. aarons444 says:
    January 30, 2018 at 5:33 pm
    Thanks to the Seahawks and Falcons for making all this possible.

    Otherwise, the Patriots would be the 70’s Cowboys.
    ====================
    Oh darn?

  221. Theevidencesaysotherwise says:
    January 30, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    And no Pats fan has ever explained all the circumstantial evidence in deflategate or why BB was taping signals if he wasn’t using them in real time.

    ===============================================================

    Explanations have been provided countless times. You choose not to believe them.
    So why bother? Your mind is made up and nothing is going to change it.

  222. aarons444 says:

    January 31, 2018 at 11:10 am

    its much, much harder to dominate over a prolonged period in todays game. Free agency and expansion along with better training, position specialization, coaching, and technology make todays game much harder to stay on top for years on end. Its not even close.
    =====

    Really?

    Which is why the Pats own hte League, and the same handful of teams have been at the top the last 20 years?

    Same as the Cowboys, 9ers, Steelers, Packers………….

    =======

    Much easier to have an extended run when your players, head coaches, coordinators stay the same every year and you don’t need to worry about a cap or free agency. Once you have a good coach and some good players and maybe an owner who is invested, much, much easier to have an extended run back then. Also fewer teams is a big help.

    And yea Pats and Steelers have stayed near the top but that’s because they are the best at the cap. The rest of the NFL has been in constant flux year to year.

  223. Much easier to have an extended run when your players, head coaches, coordinators stay the same every year and you don’t need to worry about a cap or free agency. Once you have a good coach and some good players and maybe an owner who is invested, much, much easier to have an extended run back then. Also fewer teams is a big help.
    =====

    MUCH tougher to win in the late 80s and early 90s when teams were able to build, and retain their talent.

    So tired of you guys with that bologna.

  224. aarons444 says:

    January 31, 2018 at 3:04 pm

    Much easier to have an extended run when your players, head coaches, coordinators stay the same every year and you don’t need to worry about a cap or free agency. Once you have a good coach and some good players and maybe an owner who is invested, much, much easier to have an extended run back then. Also fewer teams is a big help.
    =====

    MUCH tougher to win in the late 80s and early 90s when teams were able to build, and retain their talent.

    So tired of you guys with that bologna.
    ================

    Right…that’s why there are so many more front office personnel, coaches, cap specialists, trainers and scouts today than days of yore, never mind sports agents…because its less work today to get to the top of the NFL?

  225. Did the Patriots then give the Rams next 16 opponents the tapes? Because they went 7-9 the next year after that Super Bowl.. Or could it have just been that the league had them kind of figured out at that point?

  226. “Blow it up and Staht OVAAAA EEI, NO-One listens to you anymore”

    Kirk and Callahan is consistently the highest rated morning radio show in the country.

  227. Bob Kraft is in debt to Goodell for life. He will always be the first one to support Goodell’s future in the NFL in owner’s meetings.

  228. Web Moss says:
    February 5, 2018 at 9:46 am
    Bob Kraft is in debt to Goodell for life. He will always be the first one to support Goodell’s future in the NFL in owner’s meetings.
    ———–

    Indeed.

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