NFL responds to Williams Wall ruling

The NFL has issued a statement in response to the decision from Judge Gary Larson to stay the pending state court action brought by Vikings defensive tackles Kevin and Pat Williams aimed at blocking their four-game suspensions for allegedly violating the policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances.

Both players tested positive last year for Bumetanide, a prescription diuretic that’s on the list of banned substances.  They claim that they took an over-the-counter weight-loss supplement (StarCaps) that had been spiked with Bumetanide — and that the league knew about this fact and failed to share the information with the players union.

“Today’s ruling recognizes that this case may well be decided by the federal court of appeals within the next several weeks and that no useful purpose is served by litigating the same issues in two different courts,” said the statement forwarded to us by NFL spokesman Michael Signora.  “We continue to believe that issues regarding the application of the collectively bargained NFL-NFLPA policy on performance enhancing drugs should be resolved under federal law and that the policy should apply uniformly to all players.  The other sports leagues and USADA support that important principle.”

The league’s statement doesn’t mention the fact that its lawyers wanted to press forward with the Minnesota litigation if the federal appeal fails, forcing Kevin and Pat Williams to contend with the issue during the 2009 season.  Judge Larson has decided that, if the federal appeals court allows the state court action to continue, the state court case will not go to trial before the end of the coming season.

As to whether the federal appeals court will rule in favor of the league, we looked at the issue in May 2009, based on a United States Supreme Court decision from April of this year.

Our understanding of the law is that state-created statutory rights can be overcome only if the Collective Bargaining Agreement specifically mentions that claims arising under the statutes in question are subject to the grievance procedures created by the CBA.  Since the drug testing policies don’t expressly encompass that claims arising under the Minnesota statutes on which Kevin and Pat Williams rely, the league is facing a fairly compelling argument that the CBA can’t undermine the claims arising under Minnesota statutory law.

In other words, if we lived in Delaware we’d be placing some of our lottery-ticket money on the Williamses.

48 responses to “NFL responds to Williams Wall ruling

  1. you might want to fix the font. after the quote it doesn’t go back to the typical PFT style.

  2. the wall will play entire season. gary larsen is a great man who knows all about the purple pride i assume haha eat shit dewey and bob and jimmy and all you haters

  3. God, I hate spineless legal contortions. And the legalese used to describe it.
    You’ve also got to wonder what sort of precedent this would/could set, turning the CBA into a hunk of swiss cheese which the states could navigate/manipulate/supercede–essentially at whim–on behalf of their home teams/players.
    Craptacular.
    For the Chillzillionth time:
    The league provides an enormous, comprehensive list of APPROVED dietary and medicinal supplements, which they GUARANTEE is 1000% “safe”.
    Stray from that list at your own legal/moral/physical peril, you fat dumbass.
    They also make it explicit that labels CANNOT be trusted.
    How much clearer can it be? Everything else–the hotlines and memos and blah blah–those are just courtesies extended by the league, they are not freakin’ entitlement programs.
    Were it not for some corrupt judicial horn-sucker/purple-helmet polisher (who apparently worships Stuart Smalley, too)–this case, like the disappointing prognosis for the Queens’ upcoming season, would be open & shut.
    Or, like the Williams sister’s hungry-hungry-hippo mouths gnawing on a cheeseburger, or each other’s endzones–OPEN & SHUT.
    This jurisdictional hop-scotch is all just a shell-game.
    You say without a pre-emptive clause in the CBA, the state’s laws can’t be overcome, but how are the parties involved in drawing up the CBA (or any other contract) supposed to PREDICT which grievances might be filed (and therefore pre-empted)?
    I’d also love to hear of past instances where a state law superceded a specific and legitimate binding contractual agreement between employer & employee…
    Florio? Anyone?
    In the meantime I’ll be over here, singing some old school rap:
    “The Fat Boys are back…Rock the boat, don’t rock the boat, Fat Boys, don’t tip the (love) boat over…”

  4. My feeling in this is that if the NFL knows something is spiked or possibly is it should listed. The NFL needs to give up on this one there are too many rulings against them in regards to this.

  5. Dewey, you truly are an axelrod if that’s what you think.
    The issue in state court isn’t whether they knew about the drug, used it to mask steroid use, or even that the NFL sandbagged them cause they failed to disclose the drug in Starcaps — it’s whether MN state law applies. If the bargaining agreement doesn’t preclude state law, it doesn’t supersede state law.
    In short, MN state law applies on 2 fronts. First, state statutes say that an employee can’t be punished for taking a legal drug, and second, a MN employee can’t suffer adverse action after a first negative test. The bargaining agreement procedure violates both those statutes, and since state law is not precluded in the agreement, the NFL loses.
    The dopes should have put the right language in the collective bargaining agreement when it was drafted. The NFL has admitted that the Williams boys took Starcaps to lose weight off their collective fat asses, not steroids. Yet, the NFL is following the technical terms of the bargaining agreement to punish them, claiming uniform application is necessary. If the NFL can base its position on following technicalities when it has admitted the spirit of the agreement was not violated, how can you now trash the Williams boys for forcing the NFL to adhere to the same technicalities in the same agreement and MN law?
    Well, we know the answer to that question — you’re a cheeser.
    The NFL appealed the case to federal court, knowing it takes twice as long to get anything done in federal court — not the Williams boys. The NFL was the one that asked the state court to delay a ruling. Don’t blame the delays on the Willaims. The NFL should settle this before a court order sets the issue in stone.

  6. Short version of Dewey Axehole’s post…”I’m really worried if the William’s guys are allowed to play because they’ll demolish my team.”

  7. The Vikings First 5 opponents..Browns, Lions, 49ers, Sh*t Packers, Rams….With or without the Williams Wall (aka mr.set record for most 4th down goal line stops in the history of the nfl) we are going 5-0….Packers, Bears, any team for that matter sh*ts themselves when they know adrian peterson is coming for them…we have the best o and d line in the north…The pro bowl last year should have been called the vikings bowl…we had so many damn vikings on defense it was sad…for packer fans…Even without a qb we have been and still are the team to beat in this divsion/NFC…thats impressive…even with a good qb…you only win 6 games…doesn’t matter…Vikes are dominant….packers hate it…bears try to compete but fall short…GO LIONS!

  8. Dewey, is Codine on the “safe” substance list, or did your Johnny Jolly just not bother to check?

  9. Shout out to Dewey, Bob, Jimmi, and any other doosh bag out there…..remember that sad disapointing look on your faces all last season???? you know the one where it looks like you have just been informed your mother died…while having to take a shit…while drinking vinegar mixed with cow piss…ya that face…what entertainment that was going out to the bars and watching the packer fans throw tempertantrums while holding back the tears…get used to it..this season we only got better…b*tch about the past all you want…the 80’s and 90’s are over old f*cks…I think I’ll close with a late great quote from Shaq Daddy Diesel….Hey Green Bay…Tell me how my *ss tatse? Hey Chicago…Tell me how my *ss Taste? Go Divsion Champs…i mean vikings…..

  10. purple-nurple,
    You were on a respectable roll until you you erroneously called me a “cheeser”.
    Now let’s just cut through the legal technicality crap:
    These fat queens are responsible for WHATEVER it is they put into their bodies–be it horns, frozen hot dogs, wizzinators, Allen’s handlebar moustache, Chilly’s tongue, whatever.
    No amount of legal squirming changes that fact.
    The issue of accountability.
    As for the league asserting that the Star Caps WEREN’T used to mask steroids…how do they know?
    How could they have verifiably proved a NEGATIVE?
    Unless (as seems much more likely), they were just trying to make nice-nice in the PR department, in the partial hope that the gesture of goodwill would help convince the Williams Walri to stop being stubborn lard-slurping jackasses and face their “just desserts” (ha!) like actual men who have a backbone and a little dignity.

  11. DEWEY you are such a TURD….ANOTHER TURD comment from our dearest friend DEWEY.
    Hey DEWEY, question for ya small fry: WHY ARE YOU SUCH A TURD?
    PLEASE ADVISE. that TURD that is.

  12. Florio, I’m not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. I do have to question the how applicable the ruling you reference is. Isn’t the real question about NLRA section 301 and preemption of state law?
    DONALD KARNES, Plaintiff-Appellant, v. No. 02-5054 THE BOEING COMPANY seemed like it was the exact issue.
    Now back to your readers regularly scheduled, Vikes suck, Bears suck, Lions suck, Packers suck intelligent arguments on the merits of the case.
    It’s like the room is full of 5 year olds.

  13. Axehole, way to totally disregard what purple had to say in his post.
    Evidently you don’t understand state and federal laws at all. So, you choose to do what you always do make homosexual comments that weren’t funny when they came out and haven’t got funnier in the present.
    Briggs has always been accountable with his actions too right? Or was it someone else that left the scene of an accident and was smart enough to leave his vehicle there too.
    Do you realize with every word you type, that you are exposed for what you really are?
    A undereducated windbag, with homosexual tendencies. Added with a feeling of inferiority.

  14. I love how everyone assumes being anti Viking means pro Packer fan. I also love how those same people assume that, just because you think the Williams boys should be suspended automatically means your a Packer fan.
    Anyway, I think the issue at hand is whether or not the CBA the Williams boys agreed to when joining the NFL should trump any state law.
    On one hand you have a private contract (The CBA) that was agreed to by both parties in question. On the other, you have a state saying they cannot be suspended because it’s the first time testing positive for this substance.
    My personal thought is the private contract agreed to between both parties should win. I don’t feel a state should have the right to interfere with a known agreement between two private entities. That would be like the state telling me I can’t sell my car for X amount of dollars even though you and I agreed I would sell it to you for that price.
    If for some reason Minnesota law trumps the CBA, perhaps a fair compromise would be to suspend the Williams’ for 4 away games, since they obviously wouldn’t be played in Minnesota. Then both state law and the CBA would be respected.
    And before I get accused of being a jilted Packer fan, I’ve gone on record here plenty of times stating that, frankly, I’d rather we play you when you’re at your best and we’re at ours. I just feel they should be suspended out of basic fairness. They agreed to the CBA when they signed their contracts. They knew the risks of taking substances not on the approved list and have to face the consequences. Basically, they knew the rules and broke them. And now, because of where they live, they won’t be suspended like the other guys who tested positive will.

  15. I really don’t understand why the Williams’ continue to fight this. At least for the time being, Goodell is god. They will be suspended, there is no recourse no matter how many Viking fan judges they get. Give it up already guys, it’s only four games. Best to them over with at the beginning of the season where the schedule is soft, then miss them later and fall out of the upcoming Super Bowl run all Minn fans are predicting..

  16. once again, dewey, you spend to much time putting together your meaningless long rants which i refuse to read due to the fact they are usually more long-winded than the story you’re actually commenting on. get another job or a goldfish to take care of or something

  17. According to Dewey – “The league provides an enormous, comprehensive list of APPROVED dietary and medicinal supplements, which they GUARANTEE is 1000% “safe”. ”
    The league provides a list of 100% safe suppliments, but it is neither enormous or comprehensive. The list has 23 products, all made by one company (EAS – http://eas.com/). The list is comprised of 22 protein products (bars, shakes, snacks) and one multivitamin that’s supposed to boost your immune system.
    here’s the list: http://www.nsf.org/Certified/NFL/Listings.asp
    Also, according to one of Florio’s posts back in May (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/05/26/leagues-confidence-in-starcaps-defense-might-be-misplaced/) – “federal labor law does not overcome individual lawsuits alleging violations of statutory rights, unless the Collective Bargaining Agreement in question specifically includes such rights within the scope of the claims to be resolved via the arbitration procedure created by the CBA.”
    In other words, the NFL can look at the laws in the relevant states that have to do with drug testing, and then put a clause in the CBA stating that all claims coming from said laws will be resolved by the arbitration process outlined in the CBA.
    Poof! No law suits, and everything is handled in-house. Sounds like an easy fix, doesn’t it?
    However, writing that clause into the CBA means that the NFL would have to give something up to the NFLPA at the negotiating table, and the NFL doesn’t want to do that.
    I’d like to see that clause get added into the CBA in return for taking the arbitration/appeal process out of Goodell’s office and into the hands of an independant mediator. That sounds like a pretty good give and take to me. Both the NFL and the NFLPA will get something the want out of the deal, and it will make the whole process look a bit more fair.
    In other words, it probably won’t happen.

  18. SpartaChris says:
    “My personal thought is the private contract agreed to between both parties should win. I don’t feel a state should have the right to interfere with a known agreement between two private entities.”
    In other words if I negotiate a CBA that says employees get $2 an hour and you have to be a certain race to get a job that’s fine?
    You have to follow the law, period. You don’t negotiate illegal things in a CBA.
    Now, the REAL question is this: Does the CBA and underlying NLRA preempt state law? It does not in all cases as Catarpiller lost in the supreme court on this sort of issue. The other case I mentioned the federal district court seemed to have jurisdiction. It’s a complicated case and complicated issue, and I’m not a lawyer so that’s about as far as I can go.

  19. Ragnar”the Viking”,
    Did you mean to say I was AN “undereducated windbag…”
    Oh sweet irony!
    Check your article, there Fagnerd.
    I must admit, it is a bit difficult to seriously argue with the Queens team mascot…
    So why don’t we wait until
    Poe the Raven,
    Billy Buffalo,
    Who Dey the Bengal,
    CB, Chomps, TD, and Trapper the Browns,
    Miles the Bronco,
    Toro the Texan,
    Blue the Colt,
    Jaxson de Ville the Jaguar,
    K. C. Wolf,
    T.D. the Dolphin,
    Pat Patriot,
    Steely McBeam,
    Boltman the Colt,
    T-Rac the Titan,
    Big Red the Cardinal,
    Freddie Falcon,
    Sir Purr (of Carolina),
    Staley Da Bear,
    Rowdy the Cowboy,
    Roary (Go Lions!),
    Gumbo,
    Swoop,
    Sourdough Sam,
    Blitz,
    Captain Fear,
    and Chief Zee
    all weigh in, too, and then we can go from there–with AN “educated” discussion, okay?

  20. The William sisters will watch the first 4 games from the press box, mark it down, that much is certain.
    As for the Biqueens going 5-0 according to some pundits, typical but sad. Ask your field goal kicker who hadn’t missed a field goal all year why he pushed it right in the 4th Qtr of the NFC championship game if he believes in the hype? Ask Denny Green how we could live with that close loss (41-0) the following year’s championship game if he believes in that hype?
    I think I would hold off on any bold predictions until you find a QB, (and a new head coach) but that’s just me.

  21. Dungie Axehole,
    You are a coward, plain and simple. Not to mention a dullard who is too stupid to comprehend what Florio and others have said regarding the CBA. Fact is, the NFL didn’t cover their asses on this one and they should be made to pay the price. They had the facts regarding StarCaps, yet failed to specifically ban the product. Now if they had never gotten the facts regarding StarCaps containing bumetanide, then they could plead ignorance. But, since they knew and failed to warn, they don’t have the right to now punish the Williams boys, especially since StarCaps also failed to disclose the fact either.
    Finally, you need to get off of your high horse, because you might have some ability to spew facts like who is the mascot for each NFL team, but you have zero logic skills.

  22. @josdinoo,
    Hats off to your leg work and insights.
    Let that be a lesson to Vikings fans, then:
    See what blind bias does to you?

  23. WOW…YET ANOTHER TURD COMMENT/REPLY FROM OUR GOOD FRIEND:
    DEWEY
    HEY DEWEY….YOU’RE A TOTAL TURD DUDE…..WHY ARE YOU SUCH A TURD
    YOU ARE TURDARIFIC…TURD BOY
    GO JACK OFF W/ SOME CHEESE TO FIREWORKS AT YOUR FIREWORK STAND TURD BOY

  24. Just to be clear, I do cheer for the Vikings. Now rather than bash other teams fans for inane comments or try to defend some of the inane comments made by fellow vikings fans, I would rather look at the reason why the Williams and the league are taking this court.
    I believe this is more to do about posturing for the upcoming CBA negotiations. The NFLPA would love to have a ruling in its back pocket so they can agree to give up the position of state law trumping the CBA in order to get further concessions from the league. Lets face it, Goodell loves total power and if this ruling protects the Williams against a suspension it widely disrupts Goodells’ plan.
    Now that the league realizes that there won’t be any backing down they should have tried to come to a reduced suspension. They did it for another NFL player for exactly the same Starcaps usage so why not do it for the Williams duo. If the league had suggested a 2 game suspension this would be over.
    While I would prefer that the Williams not be suspended, I would rather them be suspended at the beginning of a season rather then midway through or at the end.
    Then again I would prefer to win or lose with the best possible team on the field for both the Vikings and their opponents. I would hate to win against the packers in a game that did not include Aaron Rodgers or Jennings because it gives the packers an excuse as to why the vikings won, same goes for the bears if they were to lose cutler or forte. I would hate to lose because the williams were missing because again it gives us an excuse as to why we lost. The fans pay more than enough money to watch the game the game and we should get to see the best of each team play and not miss out due to technicalities.
    And Dewey – sorry to say but Cutler isn’t the answer to your prayers, a better o-line is what you guys needed to do. Cutler will be a massive improvement to your offense once he can have some time in the pocket but I don’t believe he will get that this year behind your o-line.

  25. josdin00 says:
    August 5, 2009 4:19 PM
    ————————–
    I’d like to see that clause get added into the CBA in return for taking the arbitration/appeal process out of Goodell’s office and into the hands of an independant mediator.
    ————————–
    That’s a great idea. If that had been the case from the start, none of these suspensions would have been upheld in the first place. Even the league doctor testified that he didn’t believe that suspensions were warrented in this case… and that guy is paid to be on the NFL’s side in these matters. So, there’s no way in hell that an independant anyone would have sided with the NFL on this issue
    $0.02,
    –Z

  26. purpleguy says:
    August 5, 2009 2:50 PM
    Dewey, you truly are an axelrod if that’s what you think.
    The issue in state court isn’t whether they knew about the drug, used it to mask steroid use, or even that the NFL sandbagged them cause they failed to disclose the drug in Starcaps — it’s whether MN state law applies. If the bargaining agreement doesn’t preclude state law, it doesn’t supersede state law.
    ————————–
    So does the entire CBA get tossed out then if the Williamses win? If state law supersedes the CBA, then the NFL probably cannot enforce many of its personal conduct rules.
    So does Michael Vick get a free pass to sign with a team and play immediately? Donte Stallworth? What about other terms of the CBA? Salary cap?
    It’s a can of worms that never should’ve been opened. Honestly, I’m still surprised the NFLPA is backing these guys considering the possible implications.

  27. normnailz says:
    August 5, 2009 5:40 PM
    Ole’ Crazy Eyes
    LMAO!
    —————————
    Whoopsie! Looks like someone just posted a link to their address, phone number and email address on the interglarb.
    http://www.normnailz.com/
    651-329-7771
    normnailz@gmail.com
    Address: 2200 Nevada Avenue S, #116, St Louis Park, MN 55426
    Now pray no one takes it to 4chan.

  28. I could be wrong but I think winning on an appeal (at any level) is generally pretty difficult because the higher court has to essentially tell the lower court judges that they were “wrong” in the way they formulated their opinions.
    I think the “out” that the Federal Court has is to say that the NFLPA agreement’s scope DID NOT specifically outline Federal OR State by State. In essence, the Fed court could say “This contract is not specific enough and it’s not our job to rewrite the agreement, just interpret what is there, so in this case MN Law will be left to decide this.”

  29. jimicos says:
    August 5, 2009 5:41 PM
    purpleguy says:
    August 5, 2009 2:50 PM
    Dewey, you truly are an axelrod if that’s what you think.
    The issue in state court isn’t whether they knew about the drug, used it to mask steroid use, or even that the NFL sandbagged them cause they failed to disclose the drug in Starcaps — it’s whether MN state law applies. If the bargaining agreement doesn’t preclude state law, it doesn’t supersede state law.
    ————————–
    So does the entire CBA get tossed out then if the Williamses win? If state law supersedes the CBA, then the NFL probably cannot enforce many of its personal conduct rules.
    So does Michael Vick get a free pass to sign with a team and play immediately? Donte Stallworth? What about other terms of the CBA? Salary cap?
    It’s a can of worms that never should’ve been opened. Honestly, I’m still surprised the NFLPA is backing these guys considering the possible implications.
    ___________________________________
    Bingo.
    Exactly what I said: “swiss cheese”…”state whims” etc.
    = your “can of worms”
    Or, in other words, a legal Pandora’s box, with far-reaching ramifications.
    All just so two fat cheaters can stick by their original deception.

  30. rastak says:
    August 5, 2009 4:24 PM
    In other words if I negotiate a CBA that says employees get $2 an hour and you have to be a certain race to get a job that’s fine?
    You have to follow the law, period. You don’t negotiate illegal things in a CBA.
    ==================================
    I see where you come from on race, but on wage I disagree. I know there is a nationally mandated minimum wage, but if two separate private parties agree to something different, I think they should be free to do so. No one would be forcing people to work for said company and no one would be forcing workers into staying with said company past their contractually obligated time. If workers want to take the job at the pay rate offered, so be it. Besides, the market will ultimately dictate what a fair wage for that job is.
    But as far as I know, there was nothing illegal about the CBA. The drug policy is the same as a company having an alcohol policy where you’re free to drink outside of work, but not during work, and you can’t be under the influence while at work. If that’s the agreement between employee and employer, then why should the state be allowed to step in and block the termination of an employee caught drinking at work?
    You had an agreement between the union and the league saying players were not allowed to have certain things in their system. Each player agreed to abide by those terms when they signed their contracts. Why should the state be allowed to step in and override an legal agreement?

  31. Ok, let’s put all the chips on the table…
    I am a Vikings fan,
    I would like to see the Williams Wall play all year
    That being said, I don’t think that minimum wage belongs in this conversation, but… a statute is set by the US Department of Labor when it comes to State laws overriding Federal laws.
    From the US Department of Labor website(http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/flsa/):
    FLSA Minimum Wage: The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009. Many states also have minimum wage laws. In cases where an employee is subject to both state and federal minimum wage laws, the employee is entitled to the higher minimum wage.

  32. MN Viking in NY says:
    “That being said, I don’t think that minimum wage belongs in this conversation, but… a statute is set by the US Department of Labor when it comes to State laws overriding Federal laws.”
    Yea, that is the entire issue here. Federal law almost always supercedes state law.
    BUT, from what I gather in my amatuer research, the federal drug workplace act does not apply here. The crux of the biscutt (as Frank Zappa would say) is when a CBA (as enabled by the NLRA) is preempted by state law.
    I have no real idea. I keep reading conflicting passages in opinions and opinions of opinions.
    It seems to me the Williams wall will lose from my research but…….two issues make me pause……
    1) Florio seems to think the April case he references applies. He is a (until very recently)practicing lawyer, while I know jack about law. It doesn’t look like it to me but I never attended law school.
    2) Judge Magnuson has been on the bench for many many years. He is no dummy. He did not remand this to state court on a whim, not caring if he were over-ruled. He must have a solid legal basis to do so, in which case I must say, “What the hell do I know”.

  33. I’ve been away for a while. Thought I’d stop in and see what’s happening.
    The same crap. The same pot-stirring by Florio, which is how he gets paid. Don’t you guys see that he makes a nice living making us fight?
    The same storm of feces spewed by the same idiots. Viking haters live to lurk here and bait true fans into stupid games of vitreolic hyperbole. Yes, Dewey, I know a few spendy words. Notice, though, that I’m not calling you names or insulting your genitals (which would be easy, but other guys are hard at it – pardon the pun). Jimmy and Bob are present as usual, as are the same clot of moronic CheeseHeads and WannaBes with too-limited vocabs and a hard-on to be noticed (pardon the pun).
    Vikings fans, listen up. This toilet bowl will only quit if we all leave. Trust me, the joy of the haters will be short-lived if we all just disappear. Maybe they’ll just go back to their Green Bay sites and drink their beers alone. Maybe Florio will dig deeper into his Lawyer’s vest pockets for new dirt to throw into this electronic freeway. Maybe you all won’t leave and this idiotic verbal spitting match will continue. There are lots of other forums for fans to talk. I’ve been there. It’s cool to see fans talking with other fans rather than in a lather about idiotic morons listed above.
    Lastly, I really hope one of the Williams boys actually hears one of you that uses the phrase “Williams Sisters” out loud. But I expect that, if they did, they’d feel sorry for you.

  34. @MN Viking in NY-
    I agree minimum wage didn’t belong. It’s a federally mandated law. The point I was trying to make is these guys, these men, had a lawful agreement that has since been broken. The consequences of breaking that agreement were also agreed to, and as such they should be suspended.
    For a state law to circumvent the lawful agreement of the CBA to me opens a Pandora’s box, as Jimicos accurately pointed out earlier. What’s to stop states from passing laws that completely void any CBA for it’s professional sports teams?
    If a state wants to have employee laws for workers, that’s fine, but when it comes to an agreement for something like a national football league, they need to respect it.

  35. rastak,
    I am not a lawyer either. SpartaChris brought up the point of federal vs. state wages in the post prior to mine.
    1) I am not saying that I have all the details of this case. I was just letting rastak know that the US Department of Labor disagrees with his sentiment when it comes to paying people.
    2) You’re right. The Federal law dealing with drugs in the workplace does not apply in that case. It doesn’t apply for more than one reason. There is no proof of illegal substances. There is, however, a notion that they were involved. The last time that I checked, citizens of the United States are considered innocent until proven guilty.

  36. MN Viking in NY says:
    “I was just letting rastak know that the US Department of Labor disagrees with his sentiment when it comes to paying people.”
    1) SpartaChris brought up the notion that you can negotiate whatever you want in a CBA. It wasn’t me with that sentiment. I was pointing out how the entire idea is crazy given US law using wages as an example. Federal law supercedes state law. I understand this. Was that addressed to me?
    2) Not sure I understand what you are saying here. Could you clarify your point?

  37. rastak, I’m sorry for the mistake in quoting you.
    1) I completely agree with using wages as an example does not belong in this conversation. I’m starting to get mad at myself for even letting it continue as part of the conversation. Just to be clear… Federal law does overrule state law… in most cases. Minimum wage is not one of those cases.
    It’s a moot point however, because NFL players will never have to worry about anything dealing with MINIMUM WAGE.
    Please do me a favor everyone, and drop minimum wage from this conversation.
    2) The point that I was trying to make about the drugs in the workplace act, is that while the substance used by the Williams Wall is not approved by the CBA, it is technically not an illegal substance in the eyes of a Federal Court.
    Look, everyone… I’m a Viking fan, but I am a football fan 1st. I’m just as tired of steroids in professional sports as everyone else. If the Williams Wall is found guilty, and becomes the example for cases such as this, so be it. I’ll be disappointed, but I’ll get over it.
    I would challenge everyone posting here to take a closer look at their favorite team and criminal charges (either Federal or CBA level). Are there any teams in the NFL with a spotless reputation?

  38. I think I got taken out of context. I know there is a federally mandated minimum wage. I know by law you have to pay people at bare minimum whatever that amount is. My statement was intended to be simply hypothetical.
    I think you should be free to negotiate whatever you want in a CBA. I know you can’t, but by using the words “I think you should” means I’m offering an opinion. I further backed that opinion by pointing out that if workers felt the wages were too low, they’d be free to go elsewhere.
    The point I was trying to make, (And obviously failed at. Hey, at least I’m man enough to admit it) is a state shouldn’t be allowed to interfere with an otherwise lawful agreement between two private entities, regardless of that state’s law. Perhaps I should amend that to say that certain exceptions to state laws should be made for agreements with things like a national sports league.
    The CBA between the NFLPA and the NFL is a lawful agreement. Both parties came together and agreed on the terms. Representatives on one side violated the agreement and therefore should be punished according to the lawful agreement. I don’t feel it’s fair for them to be able to hide behind a state law in this case because it’s allowing them to avoid having to play by the same rules as everyone else in the league.

  39. Sparta Chris,
    I agree with your last post in its entirety (almost).
    “a state shouldn’t be allowed to interfere with an otherwise lawful agreement between two private entities, regardless of that state’s law. ”
    This is an oxymoron of a statement. Don’t get excited… I’m not calling you a moron. LOL I’m just saying that an employment agreement in the US has to be lawful on a Federal and State level.
    This makes things more difficult for businesses with locations in numerous states.
    I work for such a company. Many of the rules in the company that I work for are fairly strict due to locations in California. My point is that Cali has many employment laws that rule in the favor of the employee.
    Because of this, many of the rules for the entire company follow the rules set by specific states.
    This promotes fairness on a company-wide level. 🙂

  40. last time here says:
    August 5, 2009 9:25 PM
    I’ve been away for a while. Thought I’d stop in and see what’s happening.
    The same crap. The same pot-stirring by Florio, which is how he gets paid. Don’t you guys see that he makes a nice living making us fight?
    The same storm of feces spewed by the same idiots. Viking haters live to lurk here and bait true fans into stupid games of vitreolic hyperbole. Yes, Dewey, I know a few spendy words. Notice, though, that I’m not calling you names or insulting your genitals (which would be easy, but other guys are hard at it – pardon the pun). Jimmy and Bob are present as usual, as are the same clot of moronic CheeseHeads and WannaBes with too-limited vocabs and a hard-on to be noticed (pardon the pun).
    Vikings fans, listen up. This toilet bowl will only quit if we all leave. Trust me, the joy of the haters will be short-lived if we all just disappear. Maybe they’ll just go back to their Green Bay sites and drink their beers alone. Maybe Florio will dig deeper into his Lawyer’s vest pockets for new dirt to throw into this electronic freeway. Maybe you all won’t leave and this idiotic verbal spitting match will continue. There are lots of other forums for fans to talk. I’ve been there. It’s cool to see fans talking with other fans rather than in a lather about idiotic morons listed above.
    Lastly, I really hope one of the Williams boys actually hears one of you that uses the phrase “Williams Sisters” out loud. But I expect that, if they did, they’d feel sorry for you.
    —————————-
    You’ve really raised the level of discourse here. You’ll be missed.

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