Moss looks to be at his New England crossroads

Earlier this year, Mike Freeman of CBSSports.com stirred up a hornets’ nest by suggesting that Patriots receiver Randy Moss had reverted to his old “play when I wanna play” habits, which had undermined his time in Minnesota and characterized his two seasons in Oakland.

We sprinkled some jet fuel onto the fire by musing that Moss possibly sensed that special things would be happening this year in Minnesota, and that maybe he’d prefer to be back in purple with a clear front runner.

The talk of Moss dogging it disappeared fairly quickly, with Moss churning out highlights that conjured images of the things that a much skinnier version of Randy from Rand used to do.

But now the whispers are returning, thanks to the failure of Moss and three other teammates to show up for work on time today.  Our old friend and colleague Tom Curran of Comcast Sports Net New England sums up the situation perfectly.

“It’s unfair to go so far as to say he’s reverted to not caring, but he
is frustrated by the fact that he’s seeing more attention from defenses
and, thus, less attention from Tom Brady,” Curran writes.  “It’s been humbling for him to
be shut down for three consecutive games and he’s edging closer to
disengaging with each silent game.  And his lack of attention to the
detail of getting to the facility on time mirrors his lack of attention
on Sundays.  Build the world around Randy and he will happily sit on the
throne you point him to.  Tell him he’s got a supporting role and run
the risk of him letting you down.”

Curran also points out that the other two veterans who were late on Wednesday — linebacker Adalius Thomas and linebacker Derrick Burgess — are showing strong signs of not caring.  As to Thomas, Curran explains that Thomas has “taken a certain satisfaction in seeing coach Bill Belichick’s genius questioned this season.”  Burgess, per Curran, simply doesn’t seem to care if the team wins or loses.

The recent developments have prompted running back Kevin Faulk to wonder whether Belichick’s decision to embarrass the three players by sending them home will push them over the edge.

“It’s no reason to go in the tank,” Faulk said, per Curran.  “It’s more reason to
fight.  That’s what I’m going to do.  It’s not the time to say eff it. 
But am I concerned?  Yes.  I’ve been concerned since Indianapolis.”

Meanwhile, quarterback Tom Brady’s wife had a baby on Tuesday, and Brady was at work yesterday and today.

“We’ve got to make the commitment to each other,” Brady said.  “And if it’s Monday
and it’s Tuesday and coach wants us to come in on Monday and work or
stay for a two-and-a-half-hour practice on Wednesday and Thursday, then
with no bitching and complaining, just doing the job.  I think at times
we all feel a little bit sorry for ourselves . . . But in the end,
you’re either gaining ground on a team or you’re losing ground, and I
always prefer to be gaining ground and getting ahead and staying ahead
over the course of the week through walkthroughs, through meetings,
through post-practice film, through you’re film study on Tuesday,
through all of the treatment that you’ve got to do.”

So now we know why Brady has been more vocal.  Several key players apparently have lost sight of what’s important, and Wednesday was the day that coach Bill Belichick decided to make them accountable.

As to the fact that driving conditions were less than ideal today, it’s not an excuse.  Former Patriots tight end Christian Fauria tells Curran that the failure of Thomas, Moss, and Burgess to show up on time is “unbelievably careless.”

“Bill used to say, ‘It’s New England.  Make sure you leave yourself
enough time to get here,” Fauria said.  “And that doesn’t mean you can call 10 minutes
before 8 and tell me you’ll be late.  Regardless of what time you’re
supposed to be here, leave time for inclement weather.'”

And so a storm was unleashed inside the facility today, with Belichick sending the stragglers home.  Whether it causes Moss and company to buy in or opt out remains to be seen.  Either way, the message has been sent, and the team will be better off for it in the long run, regardless of the specific outcome of the 2009 season.

105 responses to “Moss looks to be at his New England crossroads

  1. Did it ever occur to you that maybe he’s just getting older and maybe his body just cant do what it used to, instead of accusing him of dogging it??

  2. It’s all Belichick’s fault for going for it on 4th and 2. And Brady’s careless INTs (along with Belichick not kicking a field goal) cost them the Miami game.

  3. I imagine some of this has to do with coach deciding to go for it on fourth down againts the Colts. How does it taste Billy?

  4. The Cheats are a mess ! They’re coming apart at the seams. Bill Jellyprick has lost his edge. The team’s imploding.

  5. Maybe Akshun is right about Moss getting older, but he set himself up for this with his past behavior.Will he have an Allen Iverson moment?I’m guessing no, but time will tell.

  6. Gee… Burgess and Moss quitting on the team? What a surprise. People act like Oakland was dumb for getting rid of Moss. They werent. He was going to be a punk in that locker room until he went somewhere that was winning. They had to get rid of him. The mistake Oakland made was acquiring Moss, not releasing him.
    As for Burgess, he’s done. For once Oakland got the better of New England in that deal. Oakland got a 3rd or a 4th for a washed up Burgess. Good move for the Raiders.

  7. All this cause the weather prevented him and 3 others from getting to the meeting on time?
    What a crock of shyte!!!

  8. Thomas has been les than stellar this year, and his days are obviously numbered here. Burgess has never shown much of anything, and is clearly not one of the leadership stalwarts that this defense is missing. His chances for a job here dwindle every week.
    But Moss? That guy has come too far and shown too much for this to be a sign of a major setback. Without a doubt Tom Brady and he have a solid conection, and Moss is drinking the kool-aid and will be okay.
    Why does the media always want to pull this guy down? He’s been a solid teammate since walking into 1 Gillette Place.

  9. Moss leads the league in receiving yards and touchdowns why would he be frustrated? Whenever Moss’ teams start losing he gets the finger pointed at him first no matter where he is at; its amazing. Culpepper is doing poorly get rid of Moss; he still sucks….the raiders are doing poorly get rid of moss; they still suck…the patriots are doing poorly get rid of moss; they will meet the same fate; plus Moss can go to the Colts or another Contender and put up roughly the same numbers.

  10. When the going gets tough, Moss quits. Simple as that.
    Phenomenal talent. Smart player. Hall of Famer. But the guy has no heart in the face of adversity.

  11. The weather is horseshit out there right now. I have read that they were late because of the snow. Do some more research before you put moss on the ropes with your headline. I would gladly take Moss back here in Minnesnowta. Lock it up.

  12. Yeah, Moss is dogging it and he is on the way out yadda yadda yadda.
    Oh wait, but Moss is leading the league in receiving yards, is second in the league in receiving TDs and has the third highest yards per reception average out of all the WRs in the top 10 in yardage.
    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-n=1
    Yeah, he is REALLY dogging it.
    GTFOH
    Some folks just have too much time on their hands.

  13. looks like brady and his henchman belichick are having more than defensive problems. don’t worry, the league and commissioner GOOFBALL will correct and protect you though!!!!!!!!!!

  14. “When your rich, you don’t write checks. Straight cash homie…”
    God, I miss the ghetto ass Randy Moss

  15. There are 53 players + 8 practice squad players on the team= 61 players.
    57 players were on time.
    Every player on the Patriots are treated the same, regardless of their stausd within the league.
    Tom Brady’s wife gave birth the day before.He was there.
    Funny, 2 out of the 4 players were former Raiders, coincidence?
    I applaude Belichick’s disipline.
    The snowstorm was not a surprise except to Steelersfan in CT.
    Lets hear the stupid responses on how this displine is a terrible thing.

  16. As a Vikings fan, I want Randy Moss on my team. I have always wanted him on the Vikings from draft day in 1998 and that has never changed. It’s too bad he was traded. But that’s in the past.

  17. Hey Florio, aren’t you the same clown that said Moss was going to be cut before the 2007 season?

  18. moss is a bum. i love how some here say it is the storm, well 50 other guys and coaches made it on time. act like a grown up and leave earlier than normal.
    i agree raiders shouldn’t have traded for him but were right in shipping his ass out of town. burgess was less than a leader in oakland as well.

  19. Rice and Harvin are the future in Minnesota. Don’t need and or want him and his play when I feel like it attitude.

  20. We has been going through the motions for weeks now. You can easily see if the ball’s going his way or not in the next play by his demeanor.
    Simply put, he plays when he wants to play.
    The shame of it all of course is that he’s extremely talented and should own all receiving records by now. But he never will, and his attitude is the reason.
    He was all happy to go to NE because they were serious contenders at the time. Now, Minnesota is a serious contender and NE is not.
    As for Burgess, let’s face it, the Raiders ripped off NE in that one big time, he’s done.

  21. Florio, if you’re going to copy and paste from other sources, you might want to at least keep the typeface the same font and size.

  22. A couple of things here…. If Moss is becoming the player that was on the raiders I don’t fell sorry for the PATS at all. They should’ve known what they were getting. For now, I’ll chalk it up to the double team, poor coaching, and a line that cannot block.
    The real problem with the PATS is coaching! I’m not sure if Belechick has been reading his own “genius” clippings the last few years or not but look at the mistakes they’ve made this year. The OC looks lost, forget about defense. The best one this year is BB saying Clay Matthews wouldn’t fit in the 3/4…Looks like he’s doing well in the Green Bay 3/4, Your welcome Packer fan!
    By the way, has anyone else noticed BB is horrible in the draft? What good is all the 2nd round picks when they don’t make the team?
    Clearly it’s time for the PATS to spend money on coaches and players and stop being cheap.

  23. Man, there sure are a lot of morons in here that think “cheating” somehow won NE games……..if you think this, I suggest you leave and go to a site where your simpleton ideas and lack of an IQ might be appreciated, like TMZ or something.
    People really are embarressingly stupid!

  24. Isn’t it possible, that Adalius Thomas plays bad, because he is old, and heavy, and slow?
    The defense might quit, because BB quit on them. NE would have won the Miami game, if they kick the FGs instead of going for it on 4th down.
    Maybe some give less effort, because they see, what BB did with Seymour. He clearly made the team worse, by trading him. Maybe Thomas and Moss and the others want to win now, not 2 years from now.

  25. jb10 says:
    moss is a bum. i love how some here say it is the storm, well 50 other guys and coaches made it on time. act like a grown up and leave earlier than normal.
    I don’t know if it snows where YOU live, but I’m an hour from Foxboro, grew up down the street from there. I know the weather, and the area. Not making excuses for the guy, but if one a$$clown gets sideways in his SUV because he thinks his four wheel drive means he really can drive through anything, then what are you gonna do, no matter how much time you’ve planned for.
    Not saying that’s what this was, none of us knows how late Moss was, or why he was late. But I doubt Bellichick did this so cavalierly. Bellichick is no idiot, and if he had to send Moss home as an example of no favoritism, then so be it.

  26. moss will be fine. adalius thomas? well, he is horrible anyways. i think they should just cut him and burgess. they have done nothing and the pats might as well go with all youth at this point. adalius, as a pats fan, i can truly say that i cant stand you. your a waste of space. biggest free agent bust in patriots history. good riddance(i say this because the writing is on the wall- see Patriot Reign- Steve Martin-Defensive tackle, ask what happened to him when he became a dick)

  27. Moss is being called out for the way he whiffs on plays where he’s not being fed the ball. His protection of his quarterback and team is downright awful. I thought the same thing this past weekend when he didn’t block the defender… ‘he’s taking this play off’. He’s an ass and always has been. Say what you will about Terrell Owens, but… I can honestly say I think Moss is worse. Terrell gets ridiculed for his passionate bull crap, but at least he cares.
    For once Brady has said something I respect. He’s right about the committment and the teamwork. Add respect into that mix… a good team NEVER disrespects a good leader and Belichick has proven (especially to Moss) that he can recreate an image for damaged goods. For that… they should’ve walked to work in the storm.

  28. The only thing I agree with of the whole article is as follows:
    Either way, the message has been sent, and the team will be better off for it in the long run, regardless of the specific outcome of the 2009 season.

  29. It was right to send them home, traffic problems or not.
    It’s your job, get to it.
    I have worked dead end jobs and great jobs and I have known one thing in all of them…. It will always be the same people having the same excuses.
    It will always be the same people whose kids get sick on Mondays.
    It will always be the same people coming in late with car trouble.
    It will always be the same people who can’t find a baby sitter and it will always be the same people who can’t be there because of the weather. That is unless it snows on payday. Then they can always find a way to get to work to pick up their check.

  30. golongboyee says:
    December 9, 2009 5:02 PM
    Man, there sure are a lot of morons in here that think “cheating” somehow won NE games……..if you think this, I suggest you leave and go to a site where your simpleton ideas and lack of an IQ might be appreciated, like TMZ or something.
    People really are embarressingly stupid!
    _______
    The ONLY ones here who are embarrassingly stupid are you Pats fan MORONS.
    And as regards “cheating”, one thing IS certain….the Pats supposedly AREN’T cheating THIS SEASON…and they are LOSING. Coincidence? Who knows…but the fact remains that the Pats have not beaten ONE SINGLE TEAM OVER .500 this season…and that is a FACT. LMFAO!!!!!!!!

  31. I love how all you haters jump on here & revel in a non-story….because the Patriots aren’t 10-2 the media is crying like chicken little..the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!
    7-5, in 1st place in the east & a favorable schedule where they control their own destiny….yeah, something to be extreemly concerned about…..idiots!!!!!
    See ya in the playoffs where everyone’s season starts at 0-0 no matter how their regular season record goes…..
    Because it’s the Patriots & they are feared no matter what, they are & will be for years a contender when it matters……Too bad your team wasn’t in such kaos…..enjoy watching the playoffs from the cheap seats at home with your team….

  32. *****************LOOK*****************
    THE PATS HAVE A EGO PROBLEM AND IT STARTS WITH THERE HEAD COACH.
    1. HE CHEATS. U ALL KNOW ITS TRUE AND IF WASNT HELPN WIN THEY WOULDNT OF DONE IT.
    2. THE TUCK RULE. GET REAL HE TUCKED AND HELD THEN FUMBLED. GET REAL. TAKE AWAY THAT SUPER BOWL. REALLY TAKE IT AWAY
    3. THERE SUPER BOWL MVP IS GONE. ADAM VINITARI.
    4. ITS FUNNY HOW ALL OF A SUDDEN BRADY DOESNT HAVE A D THAT WILL SCORE 21 AND GIVE HIME THE BALL AT MID FIELD HE KEEPS LOSING GAMES AT THE END.
    5. HA HA HA HA HA HA THEY SUCK. GET USED TO IT. BOLTS OR COLTS WIN .

  33. the phrase “It’s been humbling for him to be shut down for three consecutive games” is horribly wrong since, you know, he scored in 2 of them.
    you sports “reporters” sure are determined to try to make sure everyone thinks this guys a team cancer, and to ignore that he’s had a good enough year to be the #1 scoring WR in three of the fantasy football league’s i’m involved in. disgraceful

  34. Randy Moss has always been a player that doesn’t care.
    Everyone knew it before he was not allowed to be at multiple colleges or when he struck down a law enforcement officer with his vehicle containing drugs.
    Almost all of his receptions are outside the numbers on the field because he refuses to go to the middle of the field.
    Lazy, Unmotivated, and Undisciplined his leaving games early, taking plays off, assaulting game officials, and dope smoking ways are a cancer to every team he has been on.
    He is a quitter and a team can never depend on him when behind on the scoreboard because the lazy guano for brains always gives up. He is as Joe Buck described him “disgusting.”
    He has worn out his time with the Patriots, the 3rd team so far.
    His time in the NFL is near the end. There was ample reason nobody wanted him on draft day except a team that coddles criminals.

  35. Amazing! Here’s the verbatim quote Brady gave to his wife’s gynecologist. Eerily similar:
    “We’ve got to make the commitment to each other,” Brady said. “And if it’s Monday and it’s Tuesday and doc wants us to come in on Monday and work or stay for a two-and-a-half-hour breathing practice on Wednesday and Thursday, then with no bitching and complaining, just doing the job. I think at times we all feel a little bit sorry for ourselves . . . But in the end, you’re either giving birth to a new generation or you’re losing ground to Travis Henry or Shannon Sharpe, and I always prefer to be gaining ground and getting ahead and staying ahead over the course of the week through walkthroughs, meetings, film, whatever you’ve got to do.” What kind of film study is that?
    Maybe he should watch a Tiger film, to learn how to put on the hat.

  36. Good for Bill slap those over paid fools in the mouth
    All you NE haters are assholes BB is the best coach in the NFL he know football which is more then I can say for you fools
    There are rules and if your late your screwed if all of the team thats 50 some players got there on time why did these few not?
    Answer they did not leave early enough to get to work
    The Pats are having a bad year but damn if they have not ruled the NFL for a long long time

  37. I’m a Pats fan and here’s what I think:
    Moss is a freaking CAPTAIN on this team. The fact BB had to send him home tells me a whole lot. When a captain is part of the problem and not part of the solution it’s very bad.
    And I never EVER thought the Raiders were dumb for trading him. When a new regime comes in, they HAVE to get rid of guys who don’t buy in or who have set poor examples or it will kill their chances of turning around the culture. No matter how well Moss did in NE, it had to be done by the Raiders. I never made fun of them for “being dumb” or whatever people say derogatorily about them for that trade. As the fan of a team I realize that just becuase a player didn’t do well on my team doesnt mean I will be mad if he does well elsewhere. All that matters is how that player fits on YOUR team. Period.

  38. Thomas and Burgess haven’t done anything for this team this year. Bill made the right call. If you are late then there is a consequence. As for Moss, he is drawing double coverage and still managing to score and make some plays. Belichick calls him one of the smartest players he ever coach. I doubt there is any underlying issue with Moss. Just more Patriot bashing. Team of the decade ….bitches

  39. florio, youre so dumb it makes my head hurt. moss has been in NE for a few years now. how many times in that time span have you been late to work? no one is perfect and sometimes circumstances come up where you end up being late because its not a perfect world. the snow just added to the problem. the fact that a group of players were late when there is a blizzard isn’t a reason to think they don’t care anymore, douchebag

  40. IM GONNA USE BOLD BECAUSE MAYBE SOMEONE WILL REALIZE HOW FOCKING STUPID THEY ARE FOR SAYING THE LEAUGE LEADER IN TD’S AND YARDS IS DOGGING IT.

  41. I love all these Vikng fans talking about Moss going back to Minnesota next year. In the immortal words of the Boston based Rock Group Aerosmith DREAM ON !
    ALLDAY 2010Repeat Champions???????????
    Try winning a Super Bowl first or better, try to win your division which you have not done.
    The Vikings have NEVER won a Super Bowl and will not this year. Favre always reverts to his chuck it up toward the end of every season. Remember the 2008 NFC Championship?
    If I was a Vikings fan, I would be searching for hotels in LA so I could continue to follow my team after 2012.

  42. This isn’t much of a story. And I’m a Colts fan, so I guess you would expect me to jump at the chance to hate on the Pats. But here, I can’t. They were late and sent home.
    My husband is a huge Pats homer, I mean “fan” and he has been really frustrated with Brady’s play…and I keep telling him this: Brady had a serious knee injury and missed an entire season. Truth be told, he hasn’t looked like the same the Brady of ‘old’…at least not all the time. He has had his great moments (in my opinion they still look pretty great!) – but there is inconsistency. What I keep telling him is that he looks like Peyton looked in his first 4 games back after his bursa sac infection (and missing the pre-season). It takes time to get back into that natural rhythm, the 2 unfortunate parts for Brady is that he doesn’t get as much ‘leisurely’ time in the pocket as he used to…and he has a ‘prize’ receiver that does tend to get moody if he doesn’t get the ball…I’m not say he get’s TO’d, but…maybe he just got caught in some bad traffic!

  43. Kind of nice to see Belichick applying discipline to his more visible players. Wish I thought Wade Phillips could do the same. Oh well, a man can dream.

  44. BWIII,
    What the hell are you talking about? Belichick does bad in the draft??? Really? You ar eout of your mind, I will take BB’s draft record up against anyone in the league over the alst 10 years.
    And if you are going to counter that with, “those are Pioli’s picks”, then you probably shouldnt post anymore. You cant have it both ways. Belichick has had one draft since Pioli left, that is waaay to soon to say he cant draft good players.
    So, which is it? Is Belichick poor at drafting, when you havent even given him enough time to see if his picks pan out, or is he terrible, because all of his picks were actually Pioli????
    Just a few of BB’s bad draft day decisions:
    Tom Brady, Richard Seymour, Asante Samual, Brandon Merriweather, Vince Wilfork, Jarod Mayo, Jarvis Green, Gary Guyton, Lawrence Maroney, Matt Light, Danial Graham, David Givens, Dieon Branch, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Dan Koppen, Tully Banta-Cain, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins, Ellis Hobbs, Nick Kaczur, James Sanders, Matt Cassel, Stephen Gostkowski, Jonathon Wilhite, Mathew Slater, Pat Chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Sebastian Vollmer, Julian Edelman……..
    I know, terrible……

  45. I was at the saints game. It was evident to me that he was giving up on most plays. Slowing down on routes. Not blocking 100% on rushing plays. Maybe it was just that game.

  46. The ONLY ones here who are embarrassingly stupid are you Pats fan MORONS.
    And as regards “cheating”, one thing IS certain….the Pats supposedly AREN’T cheating THIS SEASON…and they are LOSING. Coincidence? Who knows…but the fact remains that the Pats have not beaten ONE SINGLE TEAM OVER .500 this season…and that is a FACT. LMFAO!!!!!!!!
    ———————————
    Here I am again saying the same old shit!!!
    My 49ers have not beaten ONE SINGLE GOOD
    TEAM and that’s a FACT!!!
    Oh and they are not in first place
    LMFAO’nnnnn

  47. To ‘Kiss Bills Rings’,
    you just might be delusional. you actually think New England on the road, against a good team won’t demolish them? I do. I think they’re very mediocre and Moss is again, a distraction. Indy at home will beat NE.
    And don’t think Brady can will them into what used to be the Patriots. Sure, you can kiss bill’s rings, but what have ya done for me lately?

  48. # ALLDAY says: December 9, 2009 5:06 PM
    FAVRE WILL BE THROWIN IT UP TO MOSS NEXT YEAR ALL DAY. 2010 REPEAT CHAMPS!
    ======================================
    Uh, I think you need to win ONE time in order to have a chance to repeat.

  49. Pats fans aren’t used to looking “up” like this LOL. The strain on their collective necks is making them irritable and cranky. They’re just another team now and it’s driving them crazy. Oh sure, they keep trying to put on that front, like this is 2004 or something, but it fools no one. The Pats are a slightly better than average team right now, one with a great QB and capable of winning some big games, but a shadow of their former selves. And it’s wonderful!

  50. Yeah I am pretty sure his contract only runs through this year. If I recall a certain QB that now plays for the vikings was pissed that his former team failed to make a move to land Moss. Zygi also was pissed that Red traded away Moss before he took control of the team. I can see Moss back in MN for one more year to get that superbowl ring that has so eluded him.

  51. NE hasn’t won a SB since they took away their cameras, and it’s fun to see things degenerate a little bit more each year.
    There is little to suggest the team will turn the current tide around. Their reign is completely over. Moss is too old, and will become a pain in the ass a bit more each year. The veteran guys who brought them their SB’s are already gone or leaving one by one. Belichick’s “I’m a genius” act is wearing thin, especially for the guys who don’t buy in, a la Burgess and Thomas. Brady looks like a guy who doesn’t want to get hit and, in any event, isn’t pleased with the make-up of the team. And, worst of all, Jim Nantz is running out of ass-kissing things to say about the Pats on-air.
    Its going to be fun to watch the whole thing die a slow, agonizing death.

  52. golongboyee says:
    December 9, 2009 5:02 PM
    Man, there sure are a lot of morons in here that think “cheating” somehow DIDN’T won NE games……..if you think this, I suggest you leave and go to a site where your simpleton ideas and lack of an IQ might be appreciated, like TMZ or something.
    People really are embarressingly stupid!
    ————————–
    Fixed it for you.
    Stay classy Patriots*** fans.

  53. One word, “tool”. Moss is a tool. Sometimes hes a good tool, sometimes bad. Sure he catches the long balls, when hes not going to be hit. Try and remember a time when Randy went up for a ball knowing he would get smoked. Now Reggie Wayne, L.Fitzgerald, those are the types of receivers you want on your team. Moss is a tool, 90% of the time, hes a bad one. One of those players like Owens, that will never win a SB.

  54. CKL: Excellent post!
    It’s nice to see posts here that aren’t full of hate and actually intelligent.
    Good stuff.

  55. The problem is NOT with the coach or Brady, it is with Moss and his two bros from the “hood”.
    These guys are always looking for way to direct attention to themselves when ever they can. They could careless about living bu the rules.
    “Look at me I’m special” is their motto. Some of the things they do to draw attention are wearing the beannies and pulling off their helmets when ever they can to show them off or they’ll wear some sport of different hair style or they’ll wear one sleve on one arm and not the other or they will do all sorts of body gyrations in front of the fans in the stadium when ever they catch a completed pass, stop a runner, make a sack or score a touchdown. Making a sack, stopping a runner, scoring a TD are all part of the game, it is there job to do these things, it is the game of football. These guys from the hood are all show offs!! Why can’t they act a little more likehumble pros such as Art Shell, Bubba Smith, Jim Brown,
    Gene Washington, Walter Payton, Doug Williams
    of the past and Isaac Bruce, Orlando Pace, Joseph Addai, Patrick Willis?
    The situation is going to get worse because the NFL is too timid to get tough with these attention seekers because the “bros” make up the majority of the players and to get tough with these guys would cause the “race card” to be oulled.

  56. Chin,
    thank you for breaking tradition here, and actually presenting facts and real history. You’re an unusual egg, old boy, basing your interpretations on like… reality! Thanks.

  57. B Eazy says:
    December 9, 2009 5:20 PM
    *****************LOOK*****************
    THE PATS HAVE A EGO PROBLEM AND IT STARTS WITH THERE HEAD COACH.
    1. HE CHEATS. U ALL KNOW ITS TRUE AND IF WASNT HELPN WIN THEY WOULDNT OF DONE IT.
    2. THE TUCK RULE. GET REAL HE TUCKED AND HELD THEN FUMBLED. GET REAL. TAKE AWAY THAT SUPER BOWL. REALLY TAKE IT AWAY
    3. THERE SUPER BOWL MVP IS GONE. ADAM VINITARI.
    4. ITS FUNNY HOW ALL OF A SUDDEN BRADY DOESNT HAVE A D THAT WILL SCORE 21 AND GIVE HIME THE BALL AT MID FIELD HE KEEPS LOSING GAMES AT THE END.
    5. HA HA HA HA HA HA THEY SUCK. GET USED TO IT. BOLTS OR COLTS WIN
    ——–LOOK IM A DUMBASS———

  58. hmmm … gotta love when the cookie crumbles lol
    now I hope people will understand that it wasn’t Brady who won the rings, it was him AND the 21 other guys who played with him who won those three titles
    but I could call this a one-off incident … the weather(wrt snow) has been absolutely pathetic in the North East

  59. Newtrocknee says:
    Pats fans aren’t used to looking “up” like this LOL
    You obviously think that the Patriots came into existence in 2001?
    You fail to forget how many truly awful teams Patriots fans had to endure from 1960-2000.
    Like so many other Patriots bashers, you really need to get a clue.
    ————————————————
    Matt Walsh says:
    It all used to be so easy when sideline cameras were being used. crumble, crumble crumble.
    I get who the “real” Matt Walsh was (you know, the guy who claimed to have taped the Ram’s Super Bowl walk-through, but couldn’t produce any evidence that he did, that liar?), but the next time you post something on PFT that has nothing to do with “Patriots” and “camera’s” will be your first.
    You are a one trick pony, and you beat that sonofabitch to death long ago. Just once I’d like to see you post something RELEVANT to this NFL season; maybe a take on the Saints season, or the Colts, or the Vikes.
    You know, have an actual OPINION for once?
    ————————————————
    @JustBornFlorio; Did you actually respond to your own quote, dude? Not much of an ego, eh?

  60. Between the 4th down call in Indy, and not kicking that FG in Miami on the 6 yard line, Bill has cost his team a chance to win 2 games. And the players know it. Doubt has creeped in, and when the players start to doubt the Head Coach..its over. Is NE going to win a playoff game? I doubt it. The dynasty collapsed under Bill’s stupidity.
    Once a Clevelamd Brown reject, always a Cleveland Brown reject.
    You can take someone out of Cleveland,…aww never mind.
    Oh yeah, the “Tuck Rule”..Hell yeah that was a gift to NE. Horrible call that led to SB #1.

  61. “OMG OMG!!!! there’s blood in the water… Moss did something (FINALLY) he’s a bad guy… he’s a cancer… he plays when he wants to play… I’m tweaking, I’m the media, I’m tweaking… gotta have my moss fix…. it taste so good, feels so good…. come on moss… give me more, I cannot live my life without a transgression of yours.” (Deep breathing, Huffer reporter)
    Once you get one hit of moss… you cannot survive without it. You’re an addicted freaking loser who reports what the negative like no other.
    Breath out, breath in, loser.

  62. @StevieMo ,
    I thought I was the only person who noticed that. Even last year with their fraudulent backup, Cassell, they only beat up on bad teams for the most part.
    They stopped miraculously always being one step ahead of their opponents. Funny how that just happens to coincide with losing the cameras.

  63. ALLDAY:
    “FAVRE WILL BE THROWIN IT UP TO MOSS NEXT YEAR ALL DAY. 2010 REPEAT CHAMPS!”
    I had no idea Moss and Favre were playing with the Saints, how else could they repeat as Champs?
    On the basic story itself, I am not a “fan” of Bill Belichick or the Patriots, but what he did was the right thing to do for the team in my opinion. That team has some talent and a great QB, but they are at risk of not even making the playoffs after the last two performances they put up and he had to do something to shake things up.

  64. Moss, T.O., Ochocinco…all three are “great” when things are going good, but look the hell out when things are less than perfect.
    It’s when things are rough that the true character comes out.

  65. First of all, any player that openly says “I play when I want to play” is going to take plays off, so I am not sure what all of you delusional pats and randy homers are trying to argue. What? that you know Randy Moss better than Moss knows himself? The dude SAID he does it. He has SHOWN he does it time and time again. And now you idiots want to say its not true and its people jealous of the pats and are just piling on Randy? hahahahaha..ok…
    Second, who cares about Moss being second in the league in yards and tds. That makes up what, one-quarter of the total plays the patriots run? a semi-talented receiver and a good QB (Brady) can get those number even with a dude taking plays off. When its his play, im sure he will get yards and tds..when its not. Forget about him blocking downfield, and forget about him running full speed. Thats taking plays off.. and he does. So get over yourselves. Youre either ok with it or not, but dont try to argue that it doesnt happen…
    oh yeah, and he got B****ed by Darrel Revis, twice… and I hate the jets.

  66. Disclaimer: This is not a defense of the Pats, Belichick, etc. This is not a defense, I just want to know the answer:
    Can someone explain how the tapes helped New England win games. Seriously, I really want to know how it helped them. I’m not being a smart ass, someone help me out, because it doesnt make sense.
    Look at it this way. I can tell you what all of my defensive signals are. Let you memorize them for a month, 2 months, doesnt even matter. And you still arent going to know what my defense is going to do. It doesnt matter if you tape the signals, look at them over and over and over, you arent going to know what play my D is running.
    I say that, because every sideline has 4 coaches, not to mention all of the players (anyone see Ed Reed in street clothes signalling the defense on Mon night?). Everyone of those guys is giving signals, you dont know which of those guys is giving the real signal, which is giving dummy signals. You dont know if one is signalling the D line, one signalling the DB’s, etc. You would never know that answer. Plus, it will switch on every drive, if they are smart.
    So, back to my point. You could stand on the sideline, know all of my signals, have a video camera, a stenographer, an artist, etc. It doesnt matter. You still wont figure it out.
    So, there is a 40 second clock. The first 10 seconds is substituting players. Now there is 30 seconds on the play clock. Then the coaches start signalling the defense, now another 8 seconds come off the playclock, leaving the offense 22 seconds to snap the ball.
    Now, for the tapes to be useful, the guy filming, has to go over to the coaching staff (he is at the 20 yard line, so he now sprints a good 30 yards, or more, over to the coaching staff). That has to take about 10 seconds, so you are down to 12 seconds on the play clock. Now, we already established that there is 8 seconds of signalling from the other sideline. So the coaches review the signals 3 or 4 times, in order to decipher the play. That takes 24-32 seconds, then you send in your play, and snap the ball (oh, and you just got a delay of game penalty).
    Again, not wanting to be a wise ass, but how did it help them. Unacceptable answers are as follows:
    1) Obviously it helped them tremendously or they wouldnt have done it – that is a good theory, but in this country, you cant use that argument in court, so you cant use it here either, I dont dispute the point, because no one does anything just to do it, there is always a method behind it, but I want to know specifically how it helped.
    2) If they didnt gain an advantage, Goodell wouldnt have fined them soooo bad – Goodell has no rhyme or reason to his penalties, plus, he specifically told teams not to tape, so he was sending a message, that if you defy him, you get bent over, dry.
    So anyone that can actually tell me, I would love to know, I really want to know the answer. All the blow hards on ESPN cant even explain it, they just want to find a reason to hate the Pats.

  67. Uhhh… my A.D.D. prevents me from reading this. Getting paid by the word Florio?
    Stick to the hort snappers please

  68. Let me keep this simple for you haters.
    Brady: Knee injury from last season, nearing the end of a season (with all the hurting that goes with it) and the O-line is leaking like a sieve but still putting up very respectable numbers.
    Moss: Constant double team without end and also nearing the end of a season with all the wear and tear.. especially a nagging back injury. Still is in the top 3 or higher in the three main WR stats.
    Regarding Seymour.. New England was not going to be able to re-sign him! Wilfork and others need to be addressed first.
    Also, free agency next year is a total crap-shoot! No ceiling.. no floor. New England is one of the FEW teams that is currently making decisions with this in mind.
    And finally… the upcoming draft!! April’s upcoming draft is widely considered to be the best in a number of years.
    Rejoice Haters! For you will have another decade to piss-n-moan. LMFAO!

  69. Bill Cowher
    Please…Give me a break. Look at the coaching staff through all those picks…Since Wiess and Romeo left he hasn’t done shit. And for all those you named I could name twice that number who didn’t work out. BB is now closing on his ninth/tenth year with this team and they are falling fast. Look at all the mental mistakes this year, where’s the coaching? The only time the offense moves is when Welker is on the field, where’s the coaching? Even though Seymour’s contract was up why trade him when you know he was going to produce for a new contract? I thought the idea was to win now not in 2011? What was BB thinking? Where is Ron Brace? How about not even on the team…..How do let Asante get away? Please, this team is cheap and it’s showing on the field.
    I’ve followed this team since the early 70’s and while I’ve always supported them and always will what is happening now is sickening.
    Just look at the colts and where they are compared to the PATS….That’s all I need to back my argument. Bill Belickick is a poor evealuator of talent.

  70. Bill Cowher’s Chin says:
    December 9, 2009 5:38 PM
    BWIII,
    What the hell are you talking about? Belichick does bad in the draft??? Really? You ar eout of your mind, I will take BB’s draft record up against anyone in the league over the alst 10 years.
    And if you are going to counter that with, “those are Pioli’s picks”, then you probably shouldnt post anymore. You cant have it both ways. Belichick has had one draft since Pioli left, that is waaay to soon to say he cant draft good players.
    So, which is it? Is Belichick poor at drafting, when you havent even given him enough time to see if his picks pan out, or is he terrible, because all of his picks were actually Pioli????
    Just a few of BB’s bad draft day decisions:
    Tom Brady, Richard Seymour, Asante Samual, Brandon Merriweather, Vince Wilfork, Jarod Mayo, Jarvis Green, Gary Guyton, Lawrence Maroney, Matt Light, Danial Graham, David Givens, Dieon Branch, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Dan Koppen, Tully Banta-Cain, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins, Ellis Hobbs, Nick Kaczur, James Sanders, Matt Cassel, Stephen Gostkowski, Jonathon Wilhite, Mathew Slater, Pat Chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Sebastian Vollmer, Julian Edelman……..
    I know, terrible……
    ________
    Claiming the Tom Brady pick as a “genius” pick is a laugh…especially given that the Pats took SIX players BEFORE they took Brady…NONE of which lasted more than THREE SEASONS with the Pats (and that was Adrian Klemm, their first rounder that year…the rest were either cut or didn’t do much beyond one season). BTW, most of those picks were Pioli and Dimitroff influenced. Belichick can hardly claim any credit for those by his lonesome. Only a MORON such as you would think otherwise.
    As far as taking someone else’s picks over the last 10 years, I’ll take Bill Polian’s picks any day over Belichick’s. Polian built THREE different teams into powerhouses in his time in the league as a GM…LIGHT YEARS better than Belichick could ever dream about.

  71. B Eazy, I take it you’re on a jihad against the English language? Good job on that but a very poor job expressing your dimwitted opinon.

  72. It is only going to get worse because this team is not the team the brown nose media wasnt you to think they are. They have been in decline for 3 years now and will continue. If not for the cream puff schedules that the NFL seem to hand to New England every year they would not even have the record they do.
    It is only when things atart to go bad that you see true character or lack of it. That trade for Burgess did not seem to work out very well, the Raiders let the dude go for a reason. As this team falls and the last couple good players head towards the wheelchair it is going to be fun to watch.

  73. Players are late for meetings and punished every week, yet if it happens to the guys that already have a bad rep, it’s big news. With Moss, the team that employs him is basically dealing with the same-old well known crap to obtain the benefits of his game-day production. How is any of this a new news? The real news is the Pat’s slide to mediocrity, not how known malcontents are dealing with failure.

  74. if the ball isnt going his way, moss disconnects from the play. the team could cover for it before, but now they cant.
    look at it like this folks. this was a warning shot to moss. this isnt the first time he has drawn belecheat’s ire. just the first public time.
    the other guys are probly gone in january.

  75. Moss is the single most overrated player to ever play the game. He is a dog, and unfortantly Mike Vick didn’t murder him. NE will not win a SB as long as Moss is there. Hes a loser not a winner. Hollow stats if I ever saw them. Comes up small time after time when it really matters. Sorry Pats fans but he already cost you one SB, remember the end of that SB?One of Brady’s bombs hit him in the hands and he dropped it. He was well covered but the ball hit him in his hands, his hands were free too. He is a loser

  76. Florio, this piece perfectly encompasses the reasons why I come to this site every day, multiple times per day.
    Just a perfect summary of this story complete with historical references and relevant quotes. Keep up the good work.

  77. I agree with Sasquash that Moss is totally overrated, and with everyone that says he’s a tool. He only gives it his all if he can make a great catch and not get hit – I can’t remember him going down the middle. His blocking is a total joke. I do think the guy has amazing talent, but it is always more about him than it is about his team. I thought his giving up on routes caused (at least) one of Brady’s interceptions Sun. Good for BB, sending his sorry a$$ home (to pout, I presume.)

  78. Like Brady said this isnt the same team. So maybe alot of the new players dont have the same makeup as the old patriots. Maybe the players they have now are the kind of guys that need a break during the week to be more effective. Some people are built different ways some people need to be constantly going over things to be as best as they can and others need down time to get the most out of theirselves.
    Its a fact that some people learn better when they have breaks instead of continueous study.
    I know thats not how Bellilchek does things but he has to realize the team he has and if they arent the kind of people that respond well to his coaching style he will either have to change his coaching style (yea right) or get rid of those players.
    I think his ego is so big that he thinks he can put anybody into his system and they will be successful, and once they’re there he change them into whoever he wants them to be.

  79. Brohamma ,
    I doubt we’ll be worrying about that. My guess is that Bellichick will be cashing in his chips pretty soon. I’ve thought he was close to the door for a few years now, and I give him 2 years tops before he leaves in advance of the Patriots inevitable fall back to mediocrity. Brady is 30 something, Moss is 30 something, he hasn’t replaced any of his defensive leaders, and they can’t use the cameras anymore.
    The Patriots haven’t had an impressive win over a team going somewhere since the AFC championship game in January ’08 (and don’t bring up the Cardinals cause who thought they were honestly going to the Super Bowl last year). Whether the Jets can get their shit together, the Dolphins are definitely catching up with them in that weak ass division, which has been their biggest asset during this run.
    So I’d be looking for that, “I need a new challenge” speech from Bill pretty soon before I’d be making all these “next decade” domination proclamations.

  80. Hey leatherneck, you HAVE Randy Moss on your team, his name is Sidney Rice. He’s not the ’99 Moss (no one is), but he’s better than the ’09 Randy Moss. Would you trade them straight up? No, thought not…

  81. I pass the stadium everyday on my way to work. i’m about 15 minutes south of gillette. i left my house today at 7:00 am and it took me about 50 mins to get past it. there are 3 cars off the road on between 495 and rt1, with police and tow trucks responding. it was gridlock.
    ‘chuck soup sales’ is right though, some people always seem to get to work on time, while certain others are always late. I’m not sure which category moss falls in to. in interviews BB always speaks highly on him.

  82. Bill Cowher’s Chin says:
    December 9, 2009 7:06 PM
    Disclaimer: This is not a defense of the Pats, Belichick, etc. This is not a defense, I just want to know the answer:
    Can someone explain how the tapes helped New England win games. Seriously, I really want to know how it helped them. I’m not being a smart ass, someone help me out, because it doesnt make sense.
    Look at it this way. I can tell you what all of my defensive signals are. Let you memorize them for a month, 2 months, doesnt even matter. And you still arent going to know what my defense is going to do. It doesnt matter if you tape the signals, look at them over and over and over, you arent going to know what play my D is running.
    I say that, because every sideline has 4 coaches, not to mention all of the players (anyone see Ed Reed in street clothes signalling the defense on Mon night?). Everyone of those guys is giving signals, you dont know which of those guys is giving the real signal, which is giving dummy signals. You dont know if one is signalling the D line, one signalling the DB’s, etc. You would never know that answer. Plus, it will switch on every drive, if they are smart.
    So, back to my point. You could stand on the sideline, know all of my signals, have a video camera, a stenographer, an artist, etc. It doesnt matter. You still wont figure it out.
    So, there is a 40 second clock. The first 10 seconds is substituting players. Now there is 30 seconds on the play clock. Then the coaches start signalling the defense, now another 8 seconds come off the playclock, leaving the offense 22 seconds to snap the ball.
    Now, for the tapes to be useful, the guy filming, has to go over to the coaching staff (he is at the 20 yard line, so he now sprints a good 30 yards, or more, over to the coaching staff). That has to take about 10 seconds, so you are down to 12 seconds on the play clock. Now, we already established that there is 8 seconds of signalling from the other sideline. So the coaches review the signals 3 or 4 times, in order to decipher the play. That takes 24-32 seconds, then you send in your play, and snap the ball (oh, and you just got a delay of game penalty).
    Again, not wanting to be a wise ass, but how did it help them. Unacceptable answers are as follows:
    1) Obviously it helped them tremendously or they wouldnt have done it – that is a good theory, but in this country, you cant use that argument in court, so you cant use it here either, I dont dispute the point, because no one does anything just to do it, there is always a method behind it, but I want to know specifically how it helped.
    2) If they didnt gain an advantage, Goodell wouldnt have fined them soooo bad – Goodell has no rhyme or reason to his penalties, plus, he specifically told teams not to tape, so he was sending a message, that if you defy him, you get bent over, dry.
    So anyone that can actually tell me, I would love to know, I really want to know the answer. All the blow hards on ESPN cant even explain it, they just want to find a reason to hate the Pats.
    _____________
    You ASSU (that’s make an ASS out of U, but not ME) that the Pats had to decipher and make use of EVERY SINGLE SIGNAL THE ENTIRE GAME, which they couldn’t have done. My take on it is this: Even ONE SINGLE usage of this information procured by cheating could have been enough to turn the game, as most games turn on a handful of plays, and since many of Belichick’s games were close games, that was enough to turn a loss into a win.
    How it COULD have been done: Signals filmed during the first half, tapes brought into the locker room at halftime for halftime adjustments (or even could have been relayed to someone like Ernie Adams, who no one ever sees but is definitely highly trusted by Belichick on all matters regarding football strategy, so that he could start breaking them down by synching them with game tape from the first half). Even if he is only able to get a few of the many defensive signals, any advantage could be useful in the second half, when many times the game was ultimately won or lost. Definitely feasible, though it could have been done a different way than the one scenario that I am presenting as a working example. Your scenario that you presented of conflicting dummy signals was not prevalent BEFORE Belichick was caught and most teams only used one set of signals, and reused them many times over the course of the season, because they weren’t worried about the signs getting stolen. On the other hand, the Pats likely were changing their signals constantly on defense due to the fact that Belichick was actively filming the signals of the other team. Therefore, most of your theory is flawed and cannot be applied to the theoretical reasoning as to how Belichick’s cheating could have affected games. Now, most of what he was doing wasn’t specifically prohibited by the rules, BUT he WAS cheating, no matter how effective or not the cheating actually was overall. THAT you CANNOT get around and even if ONE SINGLE PLAY was affected, his cheating paid off. That you also cannot deny nor try to explain around. Obviously, Goodell DID feel that the filming gave them ENOUGH of an illegal (in respect to the NFL rules violations at any rate) advantage that he felt that the fines were warranted and justified.
    Now, was that the way it WAS done? The ONLY ones that can tell you that would be the Pats’ coaching staff and/or the NFL brass that saw the videotape collection that was conveniently destroyed and never allowed to be seen by the general NFL consumers, namely you and I. So, if you want the real answer, ask Bill. Because either he is a MORON for wasting his time on something that would give him NO advantage or it DID give him an illegal advantage and he was reluctant to give up that advantage even in the face of the memo that was sent out by the NFL the week that he got caught. Considering that all of the NE fan base considers him a genius, that leaves out the “Moron” label, therefore, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing…CHEATING.
    YOU LOSE.

  83. JustBornFlorio, there is a flaw in your response. You are basically saying, the Pats filmed in the first half, and then they were guessing in the second half. And that they possibly gained an advantage on a handful of plays, right?
    That may be true, but when you are guessing, sometimes you guess wrong. If you guess that the defensive end is going to blitz, and you plan to throw a screen over his head, and he doesnt blitz, he covers the running back, you just threw a touch down to the other team……..because your guess was wrong
    And, as far as your theory about changing signals, remember Dec 2006, when the Dolphins smoked NE down in Miami, 21-0? Do you know why they smoked New England soooo bad? Because in September, Miami put microphones on their defensive lineman to record Brady’s audibles. Then in the second game, they new EVERY SINGLE play that Brady called. It looked like Miami was in New Englands huddle. Zach Thomas admitted to that. How come nobody cared about that? That is astronomically worse than anything the Pats did. But the difference is Belichick won 3 Super Bowls, was an arrogant prick, so he made an example of. Was Nick Saben every penalized? NO Were the Dolphins every penalized? NO. So I guess New England wasnt changing signals either
    Lastly, if an ineligible player, takes the field, in any sport, at any level (except the pros), all games that the player played, have to be a forfeit. Violating the salary cap (like Pit, and Den) resulting in the loss of draft picks, would also be just as egregious as what New England did, why are they not villified for cheating? Just as an example, if you can pay John Elway, 15 million per season, but only charge 8 million on the cap, that is a pretty significant difference in roster talent. Oh, and that team won 2 Super Bowls, just saying.
    Basically, no one cares about who is doing what, unless they have:
    1) lost a big game to them
    2) seen them have too much success

  84. JustBornFlorio said:
    Claiming the Tom Brady pick as a “genius” pick is a laugh…especially given that the Pats took SIX players BEFORE they took Brady…NONE of which lasted more than THREE SEASONS with the Pats (and that was Adrian Klemm, their first rounder that year…the rest were either cut or didn’t do much beyond one season). BTW, most of those picks were Pioli and Dimitroff influenced. Belichick can hardly claim any credit for those by his lonesome. Only a MORON such as you would think otherwise.
    As far as taking someone else’s picks over the last 10 years, I’ll take Bill Polian’s picks any day over Belichick’s. Polian built THREE different teams into powerhouses in his time in the league as a GM…LIGHT YEARS better than Belichick could ever dream about.
    ____________________________________
    You are going to pick one draft, and dissect it. YOU just made my point!!!!!!! If you are going to claim that all of those picks were Dimitroff and Pioli, that is fine. BUT, that also means that Belichick has only ONE draft under his belt. This year. And so far this year, all of his top picks are playing a significant role. So what are you talking about? Do you understand, my point was simple. You can say they were pioli’s picks, thats fine. But if that is the case, it is way too soon to say Belichick cant draft players. Lets also not forget that Belichicks final year in Cleveland, he wanted to draft Kyle Brady in the first round. He couldnt get him, so he traded out of the first round. He was then fired, the team was moved to Baltimore. Do you know who Baltimore draftd with the pick Belichick gained the previous year? Ray Lewis. He may not have picked Lewis, but his draft moves paved the way to the pick…..

  85. BWIII, again what are you talking about??? First you claim BB cant evaluate talent, then you complain that the coaching is the problem. Then you claim that the team is too cheap, and that is the problem, then you back to claiming that BB cant evaluate talent…..

  86. @ Bill Cowher’s Chin:
    If you are looking for INTELLIGENT conversation with JustBornFlorio, aka PornFlorio aka CornFlorio aka FlorioBorio, then you are barking up the wrong tree. It just ain’t ever gonna happen.

  87. hayward giablommi says:
    December 10, 2009 9:41 AM
    @ Bill Cowher’s Chin:
    If you are looking for INTELLIGENT conversation with JustBornFlorio, aka PornFlorio aka CornFlorio aka FlorioBorio, then you are barking up the wrong tree. It just ain’t ever gonna happen.
    ____________
    More INTELLIGENT than you will ever be, MORON. And that’s “Straight Cash Homie”.

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