Locker didn't get a first-round grade from Advisory Committee

For those of you who admire the dedication and/or question the sanity of Washington quarterback Jake Locker for deciding not to enter the NFL draft in what could be the last year of the big-money windfalls at the top of the pecking order, the decision to stay in school isn’t as honorable and/or stupid as previously believed.

As pointed out in the Associated Press article regarding Locker’s decision not to forgo his final season of college eligibility, Locker had submitted his name for consideration to the NFL Collegiate Advisory Committee, which estimates where a player might be drafted.

Despite a proclamation by ESPN’s Todd McShay that Locker would/should/could be the first overall pick, a league source tells us that Locker didn’t receive a first-round grade from the Advisory Committee.

The source concedes that Locker might have still be drafted in round one given the value of the position, but the source insists that McShay was flat wrong in his assessment of Locker.

“That’s the problem,” the source opined.  “McShay is clueless.  Up until three weeks before the 2008 draft, he said that [Kentucky’s] Andre Woodson would be a first-round pick.  He went in the sixth and is out of the league.”

And the source explained that these opinions come not from the same-old rant by NFL scouts that guys like McShay and Mel Kiper have the luxury of popping off with no accountability as long as it all sounds good (the same-old rant has a significant amount of accuracy, by the way), but from concerns that guys like McShay do kids a disservice by pumping up their expectations.

“The problem I have with people like McShay saying stupid things is parents and others who ‘advise’ these kids think McShay knows what he is talking about,” the source said.  “And they believe him before they believe the Advisory Committee.  Then, when the kids go a lot lower than projected they are pissed and/or depressed. . . .  This stuff happens every year and we have to deal with the broken hearts because people who don’t know what they are talking about put visions of grandeur into young players’ heads.”

This item isn’t intended to be a shot at McShay.  But if the Advisory Committee didn’t give a first-round grade to the guy that McShay had at the top of his board, then something is wrong with this picture.  And we’re inclined to think the defect doesn’t come from the Committee made up of folks who scout players for a living — and whose ongoing careers depend not on their ability to talk smoothly about their views, but on whether enough of the players whom they believe to be good players become good players.

65 responses to “Locker didn't get a first-round grade from Advisory Committee

  1. “guys like McShay and Mel Kiper have the luxury of popping off with no accountability as long as it all sounds good ”
    Pot, meet kettle. No one in the business takes less accountability for the things they write than you, Florio.

  2. I think the advisory committee is way, way, way off the mark on this one. Locker would’ve been one of the top two QBs off the board and an absolute LOCK to go in the top-10. In my mind he was easily the best QB prospect in this draft. Whoever advised Locker, if that is indeed what happened, is the one who’s clueless.
    I don’t think I’ve ever found myself in the position of defending ESPN before, but McShay and Kiper and every other draft analyst was right on Locker and the advisory committee was dead wrong.
    And while maybe McShay’s prediction on Andre Woodson was off, where did he have, say, Matt Stafford or Jason Smith or Tyson Jackson or Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe or just about 99% of guys picked in the 1st round last year or any other recent year? With an exception or two probably just about every one was predicted to be picked within say 10 spots of where they were actually picked, and most were picked either exactly where they were projected or within a pick or two of that.

  3. I wish we could get stats, like a list of all the players McShay/Kiper said were going to be good, and a list of all the kids the advisory committee said would be good and compare.

  4. realitypolice, may want to police the reality that you lack reading comprehension.
    Not that it matters to a troll like you though.

  5. To be fair, Jake Locker was going to be a first round QB in the 2010 draft. Considering all the teams with needs at QB, and the fact that at worst Locker was going to the third QB off the board, I’m going to have to side with McShay on this one.
    I don’t particularly like the mock draft madness that takes over the sport every March, but that’s an entirely different issue.
    Oh, and those same advisory boards placed Mark Sanchez out of the first round initially.

  6. I am sure it probably the same committee who would have projected Tom Brady as a 6th round pick as well…that’s why they call them projections they can be just as much as wrong as they are right.
    Not that I get paid to scout for the NFL or anything but as of right before he decided to come back for his senior season he is the only quarterback in my opinion who I would have taken with a first round pick. Most of the other usual “first-round projections” at quarterback have questions ….
    Tebow? Will he be able to play quarterback with success?
    McCoy? Does he have the arm strength to throw outside the numbers in the NFL?
    Bradford? Will his shoulder fully recover?

  7. @autumnwind- you’re an idiot. I am born, raised and educated as a husky; and frankly may be one of Lockers biggest fans- but he is not ready for the NFL. He has potential and all the tools needed to be successful as a pro but he’s not there yet.
    Up until Sark came in, Locker essentially ran the Wildcat. (thanks willingham) Only this season did Locker actually start to stay in the pocket and go thru his progression. That was the main reason I was lobbying for him to stay. If he stays healthy, this season will be exactly what he’ll need to be a good pro.
    So Autumn, if you’re going to attempt to impose your knowledge, either have a clue or stick to groups of people that are as clueless as yourself.

  8. Kiper and McShay do this stuff for a living. When it comes to the NFL draft, Mel Kiper knows what he’s talking about. Sure, sometimes he misfires on his evaluations…but jesus, look at all of the GOD AWFUL teams in the nfl who misfire in all 7 rounds of the draft every year. Who are the people running these teams? With all of this money being thrown around all over the place its amazing to me that a guy like Daniel Snyder hasn’t throw a fat check at Kiper to be the Redskins “head draft consultant.”

  9. Mel Kiper is more of a college player expert. He doesn’t know enough about the NFL. He makes errors just like anybody.
    McShay is an ignorant and dumb kid with no common sense or logic. He makes ESPN look bad and Mel worse just because Mel has to be in the same camera shot. Any NFL fan who can shave has more experience than McShay.
    Since I rarely watch ESPN anymore I wonder why they hire pimple faced punks like McShay and other really stupid people.
    Shaun King criticizing Brett Favre’s play, dizzy broads on “cold pizza” discussing Tom Brady fashion, and Tony Kornhoser admitting he doesn’t understand people with balls.
    It is a Disney network telling kids under 10 what to think of sports. McShay is spewing his worthless crap to children too dumb to turn him off.
    Back in the 80’s ESPN was popular because 24 hours a day there was always a game on. Now it is all talk shows of people wwho don’t know what they are talking about. Put the games back on!!

  10. If the kids don’t have the mental capacity to get a degree in 3 years and summer school they should not leave early. Not a money issue, just more of a maturity issue and being able to handle it.
    A lot of the kids don’t have the mental capacity to be in college, but that is another story.

  11. If Russell can go #1, why not Locker who has pedigree and have played and suceeded under Sarkisean’s pro-style system.
    It all takes one team folks to draft a guy in the first round even though all the 31 teams don’t think that Locker is not a round one fit. That could be the Rams who might end up getting #1 overall pick.

  12. Florio, Woodson was given a 3rd round grade by the same committee. Where is there accountability?
    Locker is by far a better prospect than Woodson, and I guarantee you these people know far less about prospects than Kiper/McShay.
    Locker will NOW probably be a 2nd round prospect at best next year, as he as demonstrated he has zero confidence in himself and obviously football isn’t a priority for him.

  13. THANK YOU! Guys like AutumnWind999 are so blinded by what these television analysts say in regards to prospective draft picks. Locker is a 1 YEAR WONDER!! Turned out that the USC win was nothing!! We have not seen him on a big stage at all. Guys like Bradford, Mccoy, Tebow, even Clausen have been seen in big games! Espn is a machine, they can have guys pumped up. You can turn to NFL Network and they will have another qb as a lock for the top spot. It’s all fodder. Mark Sanchez according to espn was going to be a low first rd draft pick, how did that turn out? LOL at saying the draft advisory committee is wrong and Mcshay is right…

  14. All I ever needed for proof about how full of crap these guys like McShay and Kiper are was Tyson Jackson last year. Up until maybe 2 or 3 nights before the draft, nobody had him going higher than maybe 10th or 11th. Then word spread the Chiefs were going to take him, and magically, he is on their mock drafts going to KC. Think about it. If these really knew what they were talking about, don’t you think they’d be working for a team? Especially McShay, given his age. This is not to say that they aren’t very knowledgeabe. They put much into their jobs. They just aren’t the so-called experts they are made out to be.

  15. Autumnwind999
    You are a moron. Mel Kiper just looks at the old BLESTO and National Scouting Reports and bases everything off of those – which are done during Junior year – anything under junior year and these guys are purely speculating. Only near or when a guy talks about coming out early do scouts give out real evaluations – something that Kiper uses as his bread and butter. I’m also sure he just gets the BLESTO/National stuff because when it comes to teams like the Colts who still draft from the same teams/schools that have ranked football players in the same draft class but not given a hard look by most scouts – Kiper has some deer in the headlights look. Colts, Skins, Pats, Raiders and Ravens have their own independent scouting department – so the Kiper suddenly isn’t as keen on the athletes and their rankings – but thats just a coincidence right? Im sure he can afford to buy the rankings off of somebody seeing the poor financial compensation a young scout gets compared to what Mr. Glasses McGelFro gets paid for his ESPN draft analysis so that other people out of the loop can be armchair GMs. Pathetic.
    Autumnwind999 – you show your ignorance when you make ridiculous remarks about the talent of Todd McShay and Mel Kiper. You know nothing.

  16. Hey realitycheck, yes florio pipes off on a website, but first those were not his words, they were stated by a “source”. There is a huge difference between figures like Mcshay and Kiper, JR then to Florio. College kids in some instances listen to Mcshay and Kiper, Florio writes a popular website.
    As for being accountable, really none of these guys have to be accountable. These players have to be accountable for their own decisions. Not Kiper or Mcshay. Hell, I could start a college NFL draft website, are these kids gonna listen to me? Hell no, the problem is when these guys don’t get drafted they look to everyone else but themselves for possibly not being good enough and not getting anything out of their college education.
    I don’t feel sorry for any kid that gets a free ride to college and squanders it because in their minds all they are gonna play in the NFL one day.
    Back to Florio, he writes a good football website. Who cares what he says. If you are reading it as though it is law, then that is your fault.

  17. Anyone can be wrong. You Lord Florio should be the first one to admit that.
    It could be the advisory committee, it could be McShay/Kiper, hell, it could be me…..
    The one person that absolutely isn’t wrong is Locker. He is getting his degree! Good for him! While I wish I had more, $$ isn’t everything in this world!

  18. Well there you go putting the cart ahead of horse people. Jake Locker announced his decission BEFORE he recieved the report from the advisory committee. He based his choice on his heart, and his desire to get the Huskies back to prominance. So, the report had no impact on his decission at all.
    Check your dates

  19. Did the advisory committee recommend that Jamarcus Russell come out early two years ago? I have a feeling they aren’t any better than the self-procliamed draft gurus.
    Given the number of guys drafted in the first round who are either busts or just have underwhelming average careers, NFL scouts (which the advisory committee is comprised of) don’t have the greatest track record either.
    Part of the problem is many players’ draft status rises and falls based on the combine and individual workouts, yet underclassmen have to delare in January before they can be individually evaluated.
    Todd McShay could easily say Jake Locker ins a top-10 pick in December, the after his spring workouts drop him to late in the 1st round or even out of round one (as this advisory committee projects). That’s what happened to Brian Brohm.

  20. SeaColt 213,
    You are a dipsh!t.
    I’ve seen Locker play several times and felt that he was the best QB I’ve seen long before any scouting reports, mock drafts or whatever. To me, Locker is a cross between Steve Young and Big Ben. Incredible athlete who has a knack for making things happen.
    SeaColt, you probably are in denial but 90% of that Huskies team blows. You probably overlook that and don’t realize they probably wouldn’t have won a game all season without Locker.
    You say “He has potential and all the tools needed to be successful as a pro but he’s not there yet. Newsflash, genius: almost no rookie QB is ready for the NFL. Guys are drafted all the time on potential. On measurables — which Locker has in aces — and intangibles, which he also has more than any other college QB coming out this year. I understand you’re probably bitter because you were “born, raised and educated as a husky” and the Huskies haven’t been relevant in a decade. Plus you have an obvious interest in seeing Locker return so your weak-azz team will win a few games again. Try again, but the “my favorite team’s star QB — the guy who virtually everyone else thinks is going to be a stud in the NFL — really sux … but I love him” approach is really strange.

  21. bootang25 says: “All I ever needed for proof about how full of crap these guys like McShay and Kiper are was Tyson Jackson last year. Up until maybe 2 or 3 nights before the draft, nobody had him going higher than maybe 10th or 11th. Then word spread the Chiefs were going to take him, and magically, he is on their mock drafts going to KC.”
    I think you are confusing mock drafts from rating players. Kiper and McShay may have rated Tyson Jackson as a mid-1st round pick. But a mock draft is projecting how the draft will play out. When word leaked that KC would take Jackson #3 overall, and it was found to be a credible source and not a smokescreen, then Kiper and McShay did their job and placed him in their mock drafts as going #3 to KC.

  22. MikeTysonWillEatYourChildren,
    First of all, stupid name. I’m sure you thought it was hilarious and clever when you came up with it in your parents’ basement while playing D&D online, but it’s embarrassingly lame.
    Second, you’re a liar. You have no idea what these guys base their reports on. You don’t think Kiper and McShay actually watch games and assimilate what they see with their eyes the information they get from scouting services and sources in the business? How many former NFL QBs are walking around at ESPN? Think they might enlist those opinions in addition to their own and those of myriad scouts and sources. Your entire breakdown is B.S.
    My point isn’t even to defend Kiper and McShay. Please, I have plenty of problems with those guys as it is. My point is that Locker was absolutely going to be a top-10 pick, probably a top-5 pick and possibly No. 1 overall. End of story. The kid is going to be a great QB.
    So direct your venom for Mel Kiper Jr. elsewhere. I know he probably banged your wife or something but that’s not my problem. I have no stake in defending Kiper or McShay.
    But I do know when I see B.S. and the idea that Locker wasn’t going Round 1 is B.S.

  23. Remember when Tom Brady went in the 6th round?
    McShay and Kiper are full of hot air, but just because this “Advisory Committee” says something doesn’t mean it’s gospel. I’m not a scout so I don’t have an opinion on Locker, but there are a number of teams that need a QB, so I tend to think that a team would have picked him in the 1st round whether he’s worthy of that placement or not.
    On a side note, I’d LOVE to hear what the Advisory Committee thinks about Tim Tebow.

  24. AutumnWind999, I love Kiper and think that McWrong is a boob BUT you have to remember that what they say on draft day is a FAR CRY from what they’re saying NOW or even in the next couple of weeks. Remember, their mock drafts end up much closer to the truth by the time that the draft is held and if you were to look at what they say now or even 3 weeks ago, you’ll find that they don’t even come close.
    BTW, you might try going back and you’ll see that Locker didn’t even show up on McWrong’s radar until AFTER Kiper put him on his big board and even after Kiper kept downgrading him, McWrong kept him at the top of his list of QBs. I thought that Mel was wrong when he rated him so high and that McWrong was even worse by cheating off of Mel’s paper. Like it or not, the REAL truth is that Locker NEEDS another year. I’ve seen several of his games through out the year and while it’s apparent that he’s much better than what he was as a freshman, it’s also true that he really needs more work.
    Oh and I’m not one to believe half the things that some people say good about some of these guys that stay instead of leaving. Peyton Manning, for example, was willing to leave as a junior if Bill Parcells guaranteed that he’d take him first but Parcells had his sights set on gettong more picks because the Jets had been raped by the NFL as compensation to the Patriots. Since Bill said “No”, Peyton stayed and a lot of sportswriters were praising him for putting school over money.

  25. Biggest douche bags
    1. Mcshay
    2. Florio
    3. Kiper
    4. Snyder
    5. Cerrato
    6. Fairy Jerry (jones)
    7. Wade Phillips
    8. Eric Mangini
    9. Tony Kornheiser
    10. Anyone who thinks anyone on this list is not a douche.

  26. Everyone has forgotten about Jevon Snead because he has had a down year. I think that guy will be a real good pro. If I am wrong, oh well. That;s the difference between me and McShay as opposed to the scouts whose jobs depend on being right most of the time.

  27. Florio, the problem with your post that for about 10 years now the Advisory Committee has been under attack for not being much help. The board is made up of guys who use to hold jobs, but now do very little scouting and rarely talk to the teams themselves. In the past few years there has been a movement to either end the committee or to update it w/people who actual take their position seriously and will actually do the work rather than being lazy.

  28. Bob Nelson
    Back in the 80’s ESPN was popular because 24 hours a day there was always a game on. Now it is all talk shows of people wwho don’t know what they are talking about. Put the games back on!!
    Come to think of it back in the 80’s there was music on MTV also, instead of another media outlet attempting to brainwash the youth of America….

  29. Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly (the first pundit to have Tyson Jackson going to the Chiefs since that seems to be the popular criterion here) had Jake Locker as his #1 QB for the NFL draft, so McShay was not the only one. Locker is a bigger faster Steve Young who can play QB, RB, WR, or DB in the NFL at a high level. He will be the first pick in 2011, unless he changes his mind and decides to become the first pick of the 2010 draft.

  30. You guys are IGNORANT!!!!! McShay and Kiper are some of the BESTTTTTT in the business!!!! Remember when everyone was bashing the chris johnson titans pick??? Welp Kiper surely wassn’t he said Johnson would be a HUGEEEE pickup for the titans and look at him now???
    Duh you cant HIT with every pick. Its not like they can test for how much HEART a player has or how hard of a work ethic they have! But more then likely there right then wrong.

  31. Locker was not a 1st overall talent this year. Christ the guy hasn’t won a damn thing or put up impressive numbers the entire time he’s been there. He may improve and become a 1st round next year, but he is still pretty raw and nowhere near a top overall pick. This situation reminds me of all the Couch experts who thought Jevan Snead was the shit after one good season at Ole Miss. He really lived up to the hype this year didn’t he? How about we see if Locker can actually win a few games and complete more than 58% of his passes before declaring him the next big thing. He made the right decision. He was nowhere near ready for the NFL, and will have a chance to be drafted much higher in 2011.

  32. Other scouts are saying the same thing, that Locker would be a first round pick. Especially, because he plays in a pro style system.

  33. Maybe it just shows that the draft is nothing more than a coin-flipping crapshoot and that everybody who disagrees that chance plays a huge role simply doesn’t get it?
    I think it is at least as much about what you do with the guys you get as it is who you get.

  34. If Locker went into the draft this year, he would be a poor man’s JP Losman. He just hasn’t had enough work in the college game yet.

  35. I think the dumbest person in this whole story is Locker. It is not admirable to stay in college for your senior season. It’s just stupid. You work your whole life to get a good paying career. Locker is set to be a millionaire. Yet he’s risking injury or a bad season to stay at Washington and play in the furniture bowl next season. Even if he’s a 2nd rounder, big deal.

  36. I’m sure Locker is a great prospect and all, but I have to agree with the NFL Advisory Committee.
    Physically (where only 10% maximum of all plays come into play) is a superior athlete. Great speed, good arm and size. Perhaps mentally, Locker is even a sharp kid. But looking at his experience, Locker was a pretty good college QB, nothing fantastic. Dig a little deeper beyond this season and you’ll see that this season was Locker’s 1st in a pro-style, or even passing QB-friendly offense.
    Locker has very little experience as an NFL-style QB and in his short experience he did not consistently show accuracy and quick-decision making to warrant sure-fire downfield NFL passer status.
    If I had to compare Locker to any one past draft prospect I would compare him both physically and from an experience standpoint to Akili Smith. Smith was very gifted athletically but as a player, like Locker, he had only one season of success (he was a JUCO transfer) in Jeff Tedford’s offense. If I’m not mistaken, Smith was also a minor-league baseball player before being drafted by the Bengals.
    When Akili Smith came into the NFL, he was clearly in over his head. He lacked the fundamentals, experience, and poise needed to become an NFL starter despite having excellent physical tools.
    I think that Locker’s chance of success will definitely be improved if he returns to college. Of course if he were to have been chosen in the top 10 of the NFL draft this season, his chance of getting paid were better this season as going back to school he could get injured or exposed as a fraud.
    For the record, I had Andre Woodson rated as a 3rd round prospect. I likened his size, athletic ability, and arm strength to Jason Campbell of the Redskins but his loopy release was more reminescent of Tebow (whom I have a 2nd round grade on) as well as having poor footwork in the pocket.

  37. realitypolice, thanks for showing all of us you dont read very well. You pot/kettle comment makes little whatsoever, since Florio was simply summarizing the opinion of the advisory committe source.
    As for this scenario, no one really knows what to expect, but there is an outside chance of going in the 1st round, no less near the top, well then the player should roll the dice. Bradford is the obvious example as to someone making a poor choice. On top of that, anyone in the top 50 who has a shot THIS YEAR to come out should. After the 2010 draft, there is a very good chance the contracts for first round picks will be controlled much like the NBA does it. (BTW – the second round picks getting gauranteed jack will be the compromise by the owners to get it done).

  38. I don’t know whether the Advisory Committee is any better or any worse than the Kiper/McShay’s of the world, but I can say this with confidence: the draft is a crap shoot and ANYone who talks about it as if he is some sort of expert is wrong A LOT. It’s more annoying coming from smug media types, though, because they project a lot more confidence than their statements deserve.
    The “douche bag” description by nationscapital10 above seems to apply, though I wouldn’t have Florio ranked so high.

  39. AutumnWind999 says: December 18, 2009 8:36 PM
    I think the advisory committee is way, way, way off the mark on this one. Locker would’ve been one of the top two QBs off the board and an absolute LOCK to go in the top-10. In my mind he was easily the best QB prospect in this draft. Whoever advised Locker, if that is indeed what happened, is the one who’s clueless.
    From now on, I’ll seek your opinion, rather than anyone who actually, you know, works in pro football for a living. I’m sure you have a better angle from your living room.

  40. McShay and Kiper would make the big bucks scouting for a team if their opionion mattered. Because we all know that ESPN saves their big contracts for former NFL players; just ask Sean Salisbury.

  41. Im a college football fan and i never even heard of Locker up until 3 weeks ago or so.Granted i do not have cable but how can someone iv never really heard of be such a lock in the top 10? i think the advisory committee was right on this one no one would take him before McCoy or Bradford this year. i also read somewhere were some people think Claussen is the best QB and a top 3 pick this year. Thats just absolutely Absurd for anyone to think that of Claussen!

  42. Locker would be drafted in the first round because his talent is so great some team would take a risk on him. This is a guy that Dennis Erickson said was the best high school QB he had seen since Jon Elway. You havent heard of him because he has been playing for suck a crappy team. Thanks Tyrone Willingham!

  43. Jake Locker doesn’t fit the modern day success formula for drafting college quarterbacks:
    1) Senior with 3 years or more of starting experience
    2) 23 or more wins
    3) College graduate
    4) 60% or better completion percentage
    5) 2 to 1 touchdown to interception ratio

  44. Hey autumn wind- read the posts. You are still the idiot. Your insults do nothing but strengthen ny argument of your idiocy. I could punk you all day with your half-thoughts but the fact is The dawgs were 0-12 a year ago and when sark put jake in a pro qb position, they were literally one point from a bowl game (ucla loss)… I refuse to keep explaining bc people like you dont accept logic, you are just right no matter what.
    Locker is a stud, we agree on that. But he’s not ready.

  45. Hey asswipe johnson – your formula sure worked for the 2006 draft didn’t it? Jay Cutler never had a winning record at Vanderbilt and had almost identical stats his senior season as Locker’s junior season. Vince Young and Matt Leinart exceeded your criteria – now tell me who is the most sucessful of those three.
    You have genius NFL IQ – better watch out McShay and Kiper, asswipe has a magic formula – only problem is it doesn’t work. Better stick to day job!! Locker’s potential is superior to any other QB prospect this year with the possible exception of Bradford.

  46. crescentbay99, just what criteria for success are you using because there’s none that I see that works in Cutler’s favor unless it’s “Getting a team to incredibly overpay for your services.” Cutler has a
    22-28- 0 record as a starter while Vince Young is 24-12- 0 and Leinart is 7-10-0 (Ironically, his last start was a close loss to Young’s Titans).

  47. edgy – since when does a win loss record mean more than stats when comparing QB’s? Cutler has far superior stats than both Young and Leinart, and he has played on inferior teams – both offensively and defensively. How does a QB impact his own team’s defense????
    Young has thrown 35 interceptions to 29 TD passes & 6,300 yds.
    Leinart has 18 interception to 14 TD’s & 3,800 yards.
    Cutler has thrown 59 interceptions to 73 TD’s & 12,000 yards.
    Case closed!!!!!

  48. crescentbay99, you can talk superior stats until the cows come home and it still won’t take away from the fact that he makes his teams worse. Understand that FROM THE MOMENT that he took over the job in Denver, the defense went to hell. They were forced into covering a lot more short fields with his stupid turnovers and it wore on the team. FYI, last year Denver threw the ball 61.6% of the time while Chicago threw it 54.9%. and this year, it’s reversed with Chicago throwing the ball 63.6% of the time and Denver is throwing it 54.9% and – gasp – the teams are going in opposite directions. Cutler has been intercepted in 74.0% of his games and has a lifetime winning percentage of 44.0 while Orton has been intercepted in 47.8% of his games and has a lifetime winning percentage of 64.4. FYI, Young’s been intercepted in 54.8% of his games and has a winning percentage of 66.7.
    BTW, if you can’t understand how a QB can impact his defense positively or negatively then you don’t know a damn thing about football and you’ve just shown everyone here that fact. CASE CLOSED.
    The problem with Young is that he’s in a system similar to Aikman in that when they get inside the red zone, they tend to run, run and run (You might note that during last year’s 13- 3 season, Collins only threw 12 TD vs 7 INT). The only time that he really has had a bad TD/INT number was his second season and much of that is due to the fact that he had no opportunity to make up for a pick because of the limited offense that they ran. Leinart’s stats don’t look nearly as bad when you consider that after his rookie season, he’s been basically a backup and that’s not conducive to getting a lot of stats one way or the other.
    Oh and Jeff George has SUPERIOR STATS to many QBs out there and he was 46-78- 0 as a starter. He was so enamored with his stats that he wouldn’t throw the ball away and he ended up taking a sack and putting his team in further jeopardy than hurt his completion percentage. He used to gripe about his OL all the time but if you watched the games, you’d see him holding on for dear life rather than hurt his percentage.

  49. crescentbay99 — I retort:
    Aikman: 81.6 (Hall Of Fame – Cutler ain’t making this)
    George: 80.4 (Hall Of Shame – Cutler will be joining him there)

  50. edgy – the QB rating takes all significant factors into place so that a QB’s performance can be rated. This is the most accepted rating for QB’s. Bottom line Cutler = 84 vs. Young = 73. You can argue this all day long but this what everybody else uses except of course you and asswipe.
    Win-loss record can mean very little as there are bad teams, good teams and great teams and a QB has nothing to do with the rest of his team’s roster. Terry Bradshaw won several super bowls and Dan Marino won zero super bowls – your philosophy says Bradshaw is better than Marino which we all know is absolutely not true.
    Believe me I am not a fan of Cutler’s – my point is win-loss record is really meaningless in evaluating a college QB’s NFL potential. Locker is surrounded by 2 and 3 star players. Bradford and McCoy are surrounded by 4 and 5 star players. You put McCoy on the huskies and he couldn’t even get out of the pocket without getting sacked on half the plays. I bet you have never even seen Locker play more than one entire game if any?

  51. Just because someone has accepted it, that doesn’t mean that it’s the end all. There are several QBs on the list of all time rating whose rating is 5-15 points lower than Cutler and I can guarantee you that most people would take a lot of them LONG BEFORE they take Cutler. Because the rating system FAVORS those with high completion percentages and throw a lot of TD passes, a lot of old timers are well off the list from Cutler but you wouldn’t find one of their coaches who would take him over them.
    Oh and if you want to play that game: Cutler’s QB ratings is 83.8 but inside the 20, it’s 82.7 — a drop. Young’s rating is 73.0 but inside the 20, it’s 91.1 – a rise.
    I don’t give a rat’s ass how many 3, 4 or 5 star players that Locker is surrounded by, he still needs the work. Now, I’m not some 19 year old punk who’s been watching this game for 5 years, I’m 50+ (and the + is for me to know). This isn’t my first season watching players and I can tell you that Locker has great potential but he needs work on his mechanics and more time in the system. If you think that throwing him to the wolves and letting him work his kinks out in the NFL is the right thing to do then you really don’t have a clue.
    Also, I didn’t use their COLLEGE W-L record to evaluate them; that’s their PRO record. Oh and I’m tired of Marino apologizers and their bull *hit. He had several HOF CALIBER players surrounding him but because he AND the media have been throwing them under the bus to elevate him, most, if not all, of those people will never see the HOF. I’m not saying that I’d take Bradshaw over Marino but the line to get DOWN to Marino for a big game starts with Joe Montana and it’s a long, long, long time before you get to Marino (Up to and including the BEST DOLPHIN QB EVER, Bob Griese).

  52. Edgy – this whole conversation wasn’t about if he was ready or not, my response was to asswipe saying Locker din’t fit the profile of getting drafted in the NFL as a QB. I called BS cuz Locker was a lock to get drafted in the first round whereas asswipe said his college win-loss record alone would have prevented him from getting drafted. I am glad Locker is staying and he will no doubt benefit and improve his chances of success when he does get drafted next year.
    You have taken off in another from my point which again says that Cutler also did not meet asswipe’s formula and yet he is now a 4 year starter in the NFL whereas asswipe formula says he would never get drafted..

  53. No, it doesn’t. His formula has nothing to do whether he’s drafted or not. He said that he didn’t meet the modern day “success” formula for being drafted. In other words, he could get drafted but he wouldn’t necessarily be successful.
    As for Cutler, he got promoted to starter because one day Mike Shanahan had a stroke. His team was on its way to the playoffs and he decided to roll the dice with Cutler and boom, the Broncos went to hell in a hand basket. He was a 17-20 starter for the Broncos and now, he’s a 5-9 starter for the Bears. Just because he’s been starting for 4 years, that doesn’t mean that it was the right thing for them to do. Denver was lucky that he whined his way out of town because no matter what happens this year, it’s still a lot better than what would have happened if that snot-nosed whiny bitch was still the starter.

  54. I don’t agree with yur interpretation. This whole article states that according to a source Locker was a 3rd round pick. I interpreted asswipe as saying either Locker wouldn’t get drafted or he agreed with a 3rd round draft or worse – that was my whole point of bringing in Cutler. I don’t care about Cutler and I am not defending Cutler, I was just saying that Cutler didn’t meet any of asswipe’s formula except that he did graduate and fours years later he is a 4 year starter. This whole article is about draft status and had nothing to do with success in the NFL. Cutler is by no means a success at this point but neitehr is Young and Leinart. Cutler does have more starts and a higher rating at this point, yet he came from a losing school with inferior college stats than Young & Leinart. The only QB I could care less about is Jake Locker & as a husly fan I am looking forward to having him for one more season cuz without him the husky would not have a chance at a winning season.

  55. “Jake Locker doesn’t fit the modern day success formula for drafting college quarterbacks”. I ask you how you can interpret it any other way. He’s NOT saying that he won’t be drafted but that he doesn’t fit the mold for a successful QB that IS drafted. I understand what the ARTICLE says but I also understand what asswipe said.
    As for how this turned into a dissertation on Cutler, that’s YOUR fault: “Jay Cutler never had a winning record at Vanderbilt and had almost identical stats his senior season as Locker’s junior season. Vince Young and Matt Leinart exceeded your criteria – now tell me who is the most sucessful of those three.”
    My retort is what criteria you can possibly use as a means of considering him more successful. It seems that your ONLY criteria is that he’s a 4-year starter (Joey Harrington was a 6-year starter, I guess he was a success story, wasn’t he? David Carr was a 5-year starter — another success story, right?) and his W-L record be damn.
    Oh and Young is NOW 25-12. I would rather have Orton OR Young and I feel that both are more successful than Cutler.

  56. Edgy – sounds like you have a man crush on Young.
    I wouldn’t want to build a franchise with Young, Cutler or Leinart. Sounds like if you were a GM, you would all over Young as your QB. I’d rather take a chance on Bradford or Locker. It seems you are also dense as I have mentioned numerous times that I am basing my comparison on the most widely used (by far) QB rating – you cannot argue that Cutler has a higher career rating, that is why Young lost his starting job which he has now gained back. The fact that Cutler has been a starter his entire 4 year career while Young and Leinart were benched is a secondary factor, as how can you say a QB is more sucessful when they are on the bench. And Young must really be an amazing player as he is responsible for the Titans defense as you consider a win-loss record as the all mighty gauge for rating a QB. So that means whoever wins the super bowl is the QB for that year?? Whatever I am done arguing about 3 struggling QB’s. Young is on a little bit of a roll but you know if won’t last just like Cutler’s roll in his 2nd year didn’t last. Young is definitely riding the coat tails of their defense.

  57. crescentbay99, you’re wrong. The thing is that you’ve set the bar for Cutler as being more successful than the other 2 QBs taken in the first round and the bar is set by the fact that he’s started for 4 years. Well, a lot of UNSUCCESSFUL QBs have been give that much time by their teams and no one in their right mind would ever say that they were successful based on that fact.
    You really don’t know a thing because Young NEVER lost his job because of his QB rating and if you want to continue to show your ignorance here to everyone, you’ll continue to use that stupid remark. Oh and just because Shanahan wouldn’t bench him and Lovie has no choice, that doesn’t mean that he’s more successful. My God, most coaches wouldn’t have risked a playoff berth by giving the keys to the car to a rookie when they’re 7-4 and in the hunt but Shanahan did. That little move cost him his job in 3 years and now, the trade could cost Smith his job and frankly, with them out of the playoffs, just what point would there be for them to bench him? Management paid way too much to get him and they’re more likely to get rid of the coach than admit that they didn’t take his track record into account when they went after him. BTW, since he really only started 5 games at the end of his rookie season, I’d call him a 3 1/4 year starter.
    As for QB rating — IT’S A JOKE. Passer Rating: Brian Griese (82.7); Bob Griese (77.1). Just who do you think that anyone in their right mind would take as a QB and your first two guess don’t count…
    What roll in Cutler’s second year? He’s NEVER had a winning record — PERIOD. In his second season, the team started 2-0 and that was the high water mark as they were never over .500 again. In his third season, they started out 4-1 and then finished up 4-7 and they lost a 3 game lead with 3 games to play. In the 4 years that he’s been in the league, Young now has a winning record in 3 of them.

  58. Asswipe Johnson
    Jake Locker is one of the most talented QBs I’ve ever watched at the college level. I don’t care who you throw in the mix. None of the players anyone have mentioned have had to go from a spread/run offense to a pro style and addapted as well. Sure the Huskies wound up 5-7 but there were 3 games they should have won. (the officials gave notre dame the win) and they almost upset #7 LSU week 1. if they have 2 of those games they’re in a bowl and Jake is an underclass allamerican. He’ll Notre dumbass got a bowl invite with 1 more win tha UW. Wait until next year and the whole Huskies program has a full year in their new o and d systems. Then cast your judgment. Until then realize that Jake has more potential than Clausen, Tebow, McCoy or Bradford. That’s why everyone was so up on him

  59. Edgy – I imagine you have a poster of Vince Young wearing jockey underwear in your bedroom.
    As I have said over and over you village idiot, none of those 3 QB’s will amount to much in the NFL. My whole point was that Jake Locker will be a high draft choice even though he doesn’t meet asswipe’s formula, just as Jay Cutler was also a 1st round pick and also didn’t meet asswipe’s formula. Whereas Young and Leinart met his formula but both been busts for the most part. Now go to your bedroom and have an orgasm over Young’s poster like you do every night.

  60. crescentbay99, I’m NOT a fan of Young BUT I know which QB that I’d rather have.
    Again, his formula has NOTHING TO DO with a guy getting drafted. Since you think that you need to insult me then RETARD – he clearly writes: Jake Locker doesn’t fit the modern day success formula for drafting college quarterbacks:
    He doesn’t say that he won’t be drafted, YOU MORON; he says that he doesn’t fit the modern day success formula. He says that while he could be drafted, AT THIS MOMENT, he won’t necessarily be successful.
    The argument ISN’T that Locker wouldn’t be a high draft choice this year OR next but whether he would be successful if he went this year. You’re so focused on any kind of negative word associated with Locker that you simply can’t see what people are really saying about him. If you think that he’s better going to the NFL this year than next then you’re just plain stupid. He needs work and if you can’t see that then it’s really easy to see why you’d rather insult me than actually try to have a real dialog.
    FYI, douche bag, Vince Young doesn’t meet 3 of the 5 criteria: He wasn’t a senior (redshirt Junior) and he didn’t start for all 3 years (he was the starter for 2 full years and the last 7 games as a freshman. I suppose in your mind that’s 3 full years because you keep saying that Cutler is a 4 year starter when he clearly isn’t), he didn’t graduate and he didn’t have a 2-1 TD to Int ratio. Even if I concede the first point, he doesn’t meet 2 of 5 so he wouldn’t have been on the list.

  61. edgy said “Again, his formula has NOTHING TO DO with a guy getting drafted. ”
    Thank you Edhy for finally agreeing with me that the formula was a bunch of crap. That was my whole argument from the beginning. I gues we can agree on something. I think we are done with this subject – like beating a dead horse.
    By the way I hear that they are selling Vince Young blow up dolls on the internet – thought you might be interested.

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