Todd McShay backlash builds

Many NFL scouts have a sore spot for failed NFL scouts who enter the media and attempt to critique the work of NFL scouts who have not yet failed.

Even more NFL scouts have a sore spot for guys who were never NFL scouts, couldn’t be if they wanted to, and then attempt to critique the work of folks who became NFL scouts.

Once upon a time, Mel Kiper was the primary target of NFL scouts; Kiper has been supplanted by his on-air protege/rival at ESPN, Todd McShay.  As McShay’s profile increases, and as he takes on the likes of quarterback Jimmy Clausen for reasons that many league insiders believe have no merit, McShay becomes a magnet for criticism.

“Most people at my level feel he is a joke,” a veteran NFL scout told us via e-mail.  “People in the league respect Kiper.  He is not a true scout but he does work at it.  A lot of his info he gets from connections in the league, and over the years he has made quite a few.  When he was younger he used to burn some bridges.  He doesn’t do that any more.”

So what about McShay?

“McShay does not have any good connections,” the source opined.  “Higher-ups in the league think he is an arrogant asshole.  A know-it-all.  And he really knows nothing.  Whatever he says about a quarterback, take it to the bank, it will be the opposite.  Remember, last August he stated that Jevan Snead was better than Colt McCoy and would get drafted in the top five.  He has yet to publicly retract that statement.

“One of the reasons the kid came out was because of what McShay said.  The family thought McShay knew and everyone else was wrong. . . .  He has problems with game management, accuracy and leadership among other things, but pretty boy Todd thought he was great because of one good game (the Cotton Bowl) a year ago.  McShay is a pretty face who comes across like he knows what he is talking about.  He does have good presence, but knows nothing.”

A common name we’ve heard when it comes to McShay is Andre Woodson.  McShay championed Woodson during the 2007 season.  Woodson ended up being a sixth-round pick, and he’s now out of the league. 

The teams knew that Woodson wasn’t as good as McShay was saying.  The problem is that the player and his family don’t have access to what the teams are thinking.  The player and his family see and hear the stuff that gets played on television, and they tend to believe it when ESPN attaches to the talking head the phony, official-sounding title of “director of college scouting.”

But not all draft experts fall into that category.

“The best guy in the amateur scouting/draftnik business in Mike Mayock,” the source said.  “Mike does more film work then any of those other guys put together.  He is the only one who has access to the NFL dub center where all the college tapes go before they get distributed to the teams.  He watches hours and hours of tape.  You might not always agree with his evaluations but he works hard at it and you have to respect that.”

The source ended with a prediction regarding Clausen’s prospects. 

“On draft day McShay will look like a fool because whether or not you like Clausen as a person he is very talented,” the source said.  “He has more training and game time in a pro system than any quarterback in the draft.  His improvement from ’08 to ’09 was tremendous.  If Notre Dame had a defense, Charlie Weis would still be there coaching.  Offense was not the problem. 
I will agree that Clausen may have some A-hole in him but he is extremely talented.  He has a strong arm and is very accurate.  Plus he has played a lot in a pro system.”

In our view, McShay does present well on television, where the requirement isn’t to know what you’re talking about but to seem like you know what you’re talking about.  But we’ve heard from more than a few people who work as NFL scouts that McShay doesn’t know what he’s talking about.  Right or wrong, those voices will only get louder in their criticism as McShay gets more air time — and as he becomes more pointed with criticisms of players that NFL scouts regard as erroneous.

138 responses to “Todd McShay backlash builds

  1. “Even more NFL scouts have a sore spot for guys who were never NFL scouts, couldn’t be if they wanted to, and then attempt to critique the work of folks who became NFL scouts.”
    well that about sums up everyone on this site

  2. “Even more NFL scouts have a sore spot for guys who were never NFL scouts, couldn’t be if they wanted to, and then attempt to critique the work of folks who became NFL scouts.”
    sums up 99% of the people on this site

  3. hahaha. mel kiper who thought Big Mike Williams was the best NFL prospect in 10 years!!!
    ahahhahahahah GO THE BMW!!!!

  4. I’m sure all scouts from different teams have different opinions. No a shocker that Mcshays opinion about a player is different from another scout. Just like a scout for the Steelers might have a different opinion a player than a scout for the Ravens or Bengals.
    Those other guys are just jealous they don’t get to be on ESPN.

  5. Kiper and McShay are both the ultimate douchers. They speculate on the same crap, argue with each other, then speculate on something different the next day. Then after draft day they go “oh, I predicted that pick on February 26th, even though I changed my mind 546 times after that”. I’m sick of them. A draft prediction is just that….a prediction. It’s like saying who will win the Super Bowl before the season starts and getting paid for it.. Oh wait people do that too. Its garbage.

  6. Sounds to me this “Source” has an axe to grind. Normally you dont hear stuff coming form someones mouth unless its personal. JS

  7. I guess its a good thing that you and the boys present yourselves so horribly on your PFTV updates that way your credibility is completely legit. Did the scout happen to mention your website on his hit list? Didn’t think so.

  8. Still say Guile Clausen is overrated, ESPECIALLY in the accuracy category. Golden Tate saved his arse several times every game I saw Notre Dame play.

  9. Would be nice of these guys had to admit to their mistakes either in air, or in a meeting somewhere. Sort of like the real world!

  10. sometimes i feel all hope is lost, like no1 seess the obvious wrongs in society that i do. but stories like this restore my optimism! bout time this guy was exposed and dissected for the hack that he is. i think he also recommended that vernon gholston go before #6.

  11. Exactly why I avoid ESPN analyst at all cost… NFL Networks programming can be stale, but they are right most of the time.

  12. I don’t understand all the “pre-draft” hype that gets created for players. The bottom line is that there are some very distinguishing factors that come across, and then there are some that don’t. You won’t REALLY know until the player steps foot on the field in a game time situation.
    I’m sure Sam Bradford’s accuracy is /excellent/ when he’s running around a practice field in a t-shirt throwing to an unguarded receiver. Different story when Dwight Freeney is on the other side of scrimmage.

  13. kiper and mcshay are 2 of the 3 reasons i quit watching espn. (chris “please stfu” berman, the 3rd)

  14. I’ve been saying that for a while now about Mcshay … where did this guy come from? it seems like he just showed up one day? and if he was never an NFL scout, how is he allowed to scout college talent????? Honestly can anyone tell me where this guy came from?

  15. Dr. Phil of draft scouts. Love seeing these guys get ripped!
    A history major or something who thinks he is a shrink and a TV personality who thinks he’s a draft scout.
    I guess I shouldn’t talk I think I know it all too.

  16. spot on Mike Mayock, he’s the only draft ‘expert’ I bother listening to
    I watch football on ESPN only on Monday nights for MNF and Cmon Man segments

  17. I knew he was an idiot the first time they put him on there. Never heard him say anything worth while. It’s sad that he has the influence to make kids think they are more valuable than they are. That can really ruin NFL careers and, at worst, ruin lives.
    Mike Mayock is definitely the person to listen to if you want to get the closest to what NFL scouts are talking about. Not 100% but the NFL scouts aren’t 100% either.

  18. I’m surprised he didn’t mention McShay’s Oompa Loompa-esque fake tan at last year’s draft.

  19. I think you’re all a bunch of idiots and never listen to word you say…. Guys that do…. Still live in mommy’s basement and eat Cheetos for dinner…just sayin

  20. A BS artist on BSPN not getting the respect he deserves? Say it ain’t so. Hard to imagine a piece more well written and correctly descriptive that this one. Hit the dumb@## right on the head with this one.

  21. This sounds like TV envy from a bunch of people who don’t matter. McShay’s numbers have never been better – and that’s is all that matters.

  22. couldn’t be said about a nicer guy. Well, I don’t really know that he’s nice but that’s what his family says.

  23. Ummm, somebody overlooked the fact that, in his latest top 20 selections, Mayock has Clausen dropping to #20. Sounds to me like “the best guy” and the “joke” are on the same page with this one and Florio missed the boat.

  24. Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly has done a good job in the last couple of years of picking what players will be. He doesn’t always get the draft positioning right (or defaults to what everyone else is saying), but when he says a guy will be good, in recent years, that guy has generally measured up. When he says a guy, even those that are highly touted, will “stink”, they generally fail to meet pre-draft expectations. He’s far from perfect, but for a guy working for PFW, he does a better job of identifying prospects than a lot of the “mainstream” guys on ESPN, etc. It’s not only about players the Pats take or might take, but just general ‘who he likes/dislikes’. They get access to player tapes to review (not sure whether it’s the “exclusive tape” Mayock is privy to, or something else), and he attends the Combine annually, so it’s not just based on what is being said, or the limited view of what he saw of a given player on TV… Check him out sometime, even if you don’t like the Patriots!

  25. “McShay is a pretty face who comes across like he knows what he is talking about. He does have good presence, but knows nothing”
    Oh are you a little moist w/irony today?!?

  26. Parents shouldn’t advise their kids to leave because of some talking head. Say what you want about Mcshay but you can’t blame him for the problems of some players that are out ifthe league. Kiper comes off as arogant to me.
    I’m sure some people in the biz think you are douchey florio but you don’t see espn writing about it.

  27. Duh – McShay has struck a nerve- and probably from a failed or fired NFL Scout – which there are scores of – just look at any of the perennially losing teams that never seem to upgrade their talent because they keep whiffing on Day One of the Draft.
    The Draft is more crapshoot than rocket science. The few teams that continually seem to get it right are just that – very few! Andy lucky! Most are mediocre-poor and/or unlucky.
    Gimme a buck for every GM that screws up a draft, plus a buck for every time Kiper is stumped on Draft draft day – and the bar will be open on my tab.

  28. Whatever, I like how NFL execs make their jobs seem like rocket science. As an avid NFL fan who doesnt miss a game, Im sure I could handle McShay’s or any NFL personnel reps job. They are all exremly lucky to be there b/c they probably know someone. Its not what you do, its who you know…..THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE PEOPLE !

  29. I can’t beleive real scouts even read what these people like kiper and mcshay have to say. If I was a GM and my scout was reading their input I’d fire them

  30. Agreed about Mayock. He’s the best and he’s not arrogant like the others. You get the sense he really enjoys what he does for its own sake, not for the air time it gets him. Oh, and he was the only one who predicted the Eagles would get Maclin last year. That’s about the craziest hit on a prediction I’ve seen in recent years.

  31. I would criticize these scouts as well if they think Kiper has any credibility as a scout or an agent of ESPN acting as scout. Vernon Gholston??
    Both of these guys are jokes, as well as the majority of scouts. Let’s face it, the draft is always overvalued. If these scouts were truly good, then they would have the know-how to see that a proven NFL vet is almost always the better play then a draft pick. Yet these guys continue to send their teams up the river without a paddle in hopes of getting lucky on a draft pick that makes them look brilliant. WR’s are obviously the best representation of this fact, as teams seriously consider drafting a WR in the first round, when there are multiple RFA WR’s who are proven to be elite (i.e. V.Jax, Miles, Marshall).
    In the end, though, they are necessary evils, and fans of the sport should draw conclusions based on their own review of game footage, etc. I just wish my team would stop listening to the Mel Kipers around the league before the draft!

  32. McShay blows!! He called Armanti Edwards wanting to play qb in the NFL “laughable” and said he shouldn’t even waste his time.. Sorry you sucked at Richmond Mr. McShay, but everyone knows how big a douche you are… everything you say will come back to haunt you, and if you don’t correct your mistakes you’ll be out of your “job” in a few years.

  33. cbatchel is right on. Maybe these network should have 4-5 scouts and then come up with one opinion.
    Anyway, I’m sure Kiper and McShay are bringing home way more coin than most college scouts are (plus they don’t have do drive around the country for 4 months…).

  34. So how much is ESPN paying you guys to post those idiotic comments on here to try and protect theirs and Todd’s reputation? Why does the scout have to have an axe to grind just bc he is critical of some guy who claims to do what they do yet has never actually gotten paid to do it in the NFL?
    I’m pretty sure they would prefer being the real deal than some phony who gets ridiculed on a daily basis. Why would they be jealous of some guy for being on TV when he repeatedly makes himself look like an ass on TV?

  35. I’m no McShay fan, but the “real” scouts can’t seem to get it right most of the time either.

  36. Mel Kiper also ripped the Colts for taking Marshall Faulk over Heath Shuler in 94, so neither of these guys really know anything.

  37. I think a problem with the “draft guru” business is that a conventional wisdom begins to develop among the mock drafts of all the talking heads. It doesn’t do ESPN any good to pay both Kiper and McShay to reach the same conclusions, or to have Mayock opinions be identical as well.
    The result is somewhat arbitrary differences in opinion to shake things up. McShay decides the #5 ranked cornerback should actually be a first rounder, because this bucks the trend and gets people talking! Mayock then writes that he’s seen the film on a consensus top-10 player and feels he’ll slide to the second round because, well, because it’s a good story, that’s why!

  38. The “source” is a joke. Own what you say. Put your name on these statements. No matter what you believe about McShay, there is tape of what he says, wrong or right. Hiding behind anonymity is weak.

  39. Everyone thought Andre Woodson could be a first round talent until his senior season. As for Kiper, I’ll always remember him calling the Colts a laughing stock for taking Faulk over Dilfer.
    It’s not an exact science, but McShay does come off well in his presentation, that’s why he’s on TV.

  40. Please, the guys in the NFL are just as bad as the dumb talking heads on TV.
    Just look at how many “knowledgeable” NFL Scouts have made terrible calls as to talent. Where were the scouts saying that Ryan Leaf was terrible, Jamarcus Russell, Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, etc etc.
    These guys need to just admit the truth…no matter how much they all think they know, or how talented they believe they are in gauging talent…..
    it’s all BS and just a crap shoot half of the time.

  41. The reality is there is a lot of luck in the Draft and for every good pick a GM has he probably has 3 that are terrible. I mean Ozzie drafted ogden, boulware and lewis, but he also picked boller, travis taylor and mark clayton in the first round.
    Mel Kiper has been doing this since 1976 and I think a heck of lot of his analysis is just as good as 70% of the league GM’S. For the most part 90% of the people on this site probably could evaluate talent if it was there job and meet the standards of many NFL organizations. The work and effort this guys pretend to put in is a joke! Picking a good employee is something millions of people do every day. Some better than others but give them half the tools NFL GM’s have to evalautate talent and it would be difficult not to be successful.

  42. Of all the draft “expert” talking heads at least Mayock seems to study a huge amount of film. I think he has at least a bit of respect.
    The best you could say about Kiper is that he has made a nice living out of the NFL draft and has been doing his shctick since high school.
    As for McShay, most of the people who write their fan-biased ridiculous opinions on this site have as much accuracy and legitimacy. He is an idiot not worth watching, reading, or paying attention to.

  43. @ doworkci: you may want to read Florio’s post from the other day when he “mentioned” that all he did was post other author’s work that had since been debunked (re: McNabb trade rumors)……

  44. This is commonplace. No different than most of the idiots CNBC trots out as experts to tell us whats happening in the stock market

  45. Regardless of McShay’s opinion on Clausen, he is an idiot. He had McCoy & Suh going 1 & 2 for a long time. I had Bradford going #1 since January. McCoy should not even be in the conversation at #1 or #2. Suh should be in the conversation for the Lions, but if it isn’t him then the Lions will go LT. And Clausen will go in the Top 10 guaranteed. He may even go #2 if someone likes his April 9 workout enough to trade up to the Lions, who would gladly trade out of that spot.

  46. I remember when McShay said Jamarcus Russell had the best pro day of any qb that he had ever seen.

  47. when ESPN attaches to the talking head the phony, official-sounding title of “director of college scouting.”
    Years ago they just moved on to the next year with no one remembering what they said the year prior. After 3 years of watching a draft pick one has given them enough time to really show what they are. I go over what all these, “when ESPN attaches to the talking head the phony, official-sounding title of “director of college scouting.” and what they had to say on players from drafts 3 years prior.
    If you are looking for a good laugh you should try it sometime. There is a reason Mike Lombardi and others are not wanted in the NFL The best out there is Brandt and why they do not have him on more I will never know. The rest are nothing more than a joke.

  48. McShay has as much respectability as Florio.
    Florio, when are you gonna publicly retract this statement from the ’08 offseason: “The Atlanta Falcons are at least 5 years from competing”????
    Guess McShay isn’t the only one running his mouth off as if he is an NFL insider…

  49. Bricketh says:
    March 31, 2010 1:20 PM
    Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly has done a good job in the last couple of years of picking what players will be
    Mendenhall is ridiculous!!!! – Quote from Andy Hart (you got to listen to the show for the joke)

  50. McShay is about as dependable as a broken condom. I don’t get why ESPN continues to waste money on his salary.

  51. ouch!!! you gotta take it like a man when you are getting hammered for being a phony scout

  52. The saddest thing is that Todd Cliche and Mel Hyper charge for their “analysis”.

  53. The proof is in the pudding. If McShay sucks for a long time, he’ll be gone. If he drives revenue, but still sucks……..then we may have something to complain about.

  54. Well, I believe Kiper probably demanded too much money from ESPN, so they had to develop someone to become the next expert, remember ESPN is all about the money.
    Kiper didn’t call the Colts out for taking Faulk over Dilfer, it was Trev Albers over Dilfer, and you could argue he was right. Neither had a great NFL career, but Dilfer won a SuperBowl.
    The scout is a douche. Give McShay credit (even though I don’t like him either) that he is calling someone over-rated, and going out on a limb. Time will tell with this one, but in the top 10, the best of the best scouts are only correct 50% of the time, so I don’t know why he is singling out McShay for being wrong about Woodson and Snead. Also, most scouts had Snead as a Top 5 pick until his senior year, so technically, I haven’t heard any of them retract that statement publically.
    I agree with most of you, that Mayock is credible and quite enjoyable to listen to. The NFL network is much better for the draft, as ESPN has lost its luster. Though ESPN stealing Adam Schefter, was a good move, they just need to give him a more prominent role.
    The great draft debate will never end…

  55. “Most people at my level feel he is a joke,” a veteran NFL scout told us via e-mail.
    Ummmm – most people at MY level (midwestern football fan) feel he is a joke.

  56. No so called “scout” or “draft expert” is right 100% of the time. Heck they’re not right 90% of the time or even 80% of the time.

  57. I think, at least I hope, the majority of people realize Kiper and McShay are not scouts, so you have to be careful when you listen to what they have to say. They exist only to sell a product.
    I’ve never listened much to either, but I have recently began to pay attention to what Mike Mayock has to say. He’s certainly the most accurate of the three.

  58. Kiper rules. He got into the draft for the right reasons, he’s the godfather of it all, and I bet he would even admit that he’s more of a connections guy than a tape guy. But I think he’s as good at the latter as anyone. Grading football players is far from rocket science folks. A lot of non-NFL scouts who watch tons of football know what traits make a corner successful.

  59. all the guys in the media don’t know Jack…if they did, they would be working (or still working) for a NFL team.

  60. In today’s information age the gap between ace NFL scout and armchair QB isn’t as large as the NFL scout wants you to believe.
    All these “scouts” should be thankful they have a job in football–they have to be among the most dispensable positions in any industry. Any halfwit football fan could evaluate talent if someone paid them to do it year round.

  61. From fans to the majority of pundits, the hoopla surrounding the NFL draft is one great big sham.
    Fans are way more deluded than pundits.
    It amuses me every year how fans claim to know the first thing about Iowa’s RT, and have the audacity to claim Iowa’s RT would be a good pick in the 5th round, but poor poor value in the 4th.
    Fakers the lot of them.

  62. Call me a hater, I don’t care, cuz I do hate ESPN, and I love it anytime they get knocked off of their high horse. LMAO

  63. For everything I love about the NFL (and draft day is certainly near the top of the list), there is no bigger waste of time than trying to predict who goes where and to what team. “Mock Drafts” are a waste of time. It’s a crapshoot, plain and simple, and all the months of speculation go out the window as soon as the first trade is made. Ultimately, these guys are lucky to hit on a half dozen picks in the first round (although Mayock did predict 11 correctly last year).

  64. Kiper is the safe bet. If you followed Kiper’s draft order to a tee, more often than not you’ll make the right choice. There are always obviously busts, but nobody can accurately predict that all the time.

  65. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Mayock is good, but it just sounds like he has an edge with getting tape. Kiper is great at getting info on the nobodies. Seems like mcshay and mayock only know about the obvious. Also a guy with a good eye is Corey chavous. He’s been doing draftnik for years now.
    I just don’t see why these guys are so good, why aren’t they in the NFL as a GM or director of scouting( 86 kiper who has a scouting publication).

  66. McShay is a bleephole. Kiper is a wormburner. Mayock is king of the TV Draft guys. He clearly knows the game better, and he watches game tape. Maybe it has to do with ESPN (the worst thing to every happen to sports), all they do is hire people with no clue. There ruined Basketball(not every highlight needs to be a dunk what happened to the mid range jump shot or consistant passing to find the open shot), almost don’t cover Hockey, There head Baseball guy looks older then dirt(can’t bash the baseball to much they do have Kruky GO PHILS) and ESPNs Football greats include K.Johnson, M.Hodge, T.Hasselbeck and the best of alltime McShay. Thank god for good sites like, and of course

  67. i don’t have a preference on mcshay.. throw a peson on tv talking about the draft and i’ll be interested to get another perspective. in something as inexact as the draft, i think it shows more about the bitter scout than mcshay to be complaining about someone else’s opinion.
    if clausen does suck in the nfl, is this unnamed scout going to apologize to mcshay and quit his job because he apparently knows nothing either?

  68. McShay
    And 80% of the scouts out there are doucehbags. Why do you think they are scouts.
    Just pay bill Polian and let him do your draft picks….

  69. Always nice to g back and pick out random guys that someone was wrong about. Even the best guys only get about 60% right.

  70. I don’t watch the college game, so I know nothing about the guys coming out of college but like most NFL fans I watch the draft and coverage leading up to the draft to get a sense about the guys that my team are likely to be drafting.
    Even with my very limited knowladge of the college game, I could tell that Mayock was head and shoulders above the ESPN draft guys like Kiper and I stopped watching ESPN coverage and switched to NFLN coverage.
    Mayock is the best.

  71. They’re all overrated, even mayock thinks earl Thomas is better than Eric berry… go get a real job!

  72. So your source for the Mayock analysis (and therefore the McShay rip) is Pat Kirwan.
    He made the exact same comment about Mayock on air the other day – and alluded to McShay without calling him out by name.

  73. McShay is a douche, but not as big of a douche as your cowardly “anonymous source.” Get some balls and identify who you are.
    At least McShay is held accountable for what he says.

  74. I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, even though I agree that McShay, and to some extent Kiper, are no more than crapshoots. I understand the desire for anonymity for this NFL Scout, but I’d love to at least know what team he’s scouting for. How many teams out there have great scouts? The Colts and Patriots were the class of NFL scouting, but now Pioli is in KC. So throw the Chiefs in, as well as (in my humble opinion) the Packers, Giants, Chargers, Jets, and to a lesser extent the Eagles, Vikings, and Cardinals.
    And before I’m assaulted for that, yes those teams have missed frequently. The Colts clearly have the best scouts in my mind, and yet they missed on Tony Ugoh, Mike Pollak, Tim Jennings, and a few others recently. You can only be right more often than not. If you bet on NFL games and you’re correct with the spread 55-60% of the time, you’re a rich football genius.
    Lastly, in defense of the mock drafters, the evaluation of a player often means putting him in a situation to succeed. I heard someone refer to McFadden as a bust recently and thought, wow, if he had an offensive line, a quarterback, and less competition at his position, he could be dynamite. It seems unfair, or at least premature, to classify him as a bust.

  75. HaHa….why would anyone check out Patriots Football Weekly if they don’t like the Patriots? IT doesn’t seem that the Pats drafts have been very productive recently, so maybe they should be reading what their own scribe predicts.

  76. Finally! People are starting to see the truth! This guy is nothing but a bag of hot air. I’ve never trusted a single word that comes out of this guys mouth. He just kind of seems like a dumbass that thinks if he talks in a powerful, convicted voice, people will believe whatever he says! HE HAS NO CREDIBILITY!!

  77. I used to be a huge ESPN fan, but it is really just trash. From McShay, to Emmit Smith, to Chris Carter, to Tom Jackson, to Tim Hasselbeck to John Clayton. Just a bunch of talentless misguided misfits. They are more concerned of riding the pop-culture wave than reporting about sports.

  78. Mike Mayock is terrible. He thought Eric Berry would to 12th and said that Earl Thomas was better. He also said Suh would fall past 8. Sounds like he knows what’s going on.

  79. Most NFL scouts are arrogant, anal and paranoid.
    I guess I’d be too if I could fail 50 percent of the time at my job and yet keep getting paid.

  80. I’m not defending Kiper or McShay, but they aren’t the ones who drafted selected JaMarcus, Courtney Brown, Mike Williams (either of them), Pacman, or Charles Rogers. Some of these scouts run around like their sh!t don’t stink. Again, not an ESPN apologist, but scouts have been high on some duds as well, its just their GM that ends up taking the fall.

  81. There was a guy back in the day…Secor was his last name from Redeye Sports and…..he was better than all of them and had inside connections all over the NFL…..I miss his analysis.

  82. For all you guys calling for this source to be outed, they remaiin anonymous not bc they are scared of publicly criticizing McShay or they are cowards, but bc their employers don’t want them making comments like that on the record.

  83. Mayock is no better than Kiper or McShay. He’s just more vanilla, so people don’t have a tendency to dislike him like they do McShay now, and Kiper in the past. Kiper is less hard edged now and now people around the league are starting to like him.

  84. This is getting more hits than a Big Ben or Santonio Blunt story…..
    Bricketh says:
    March 31, 2010 1:20 PM
    Andy Hart of Patriots Football Weekly….
    Let’s all go the Patriots Sport Weekly at the same time and take the site down…

  85. You want to see a really bad mock draft, go to and check out Bucky Brooks mock. Its HORRIBLE!!!

  86. “McShay does not have any good connections,” the source opined. “Higher-ups in the league think he is an arrogant asshole. A know-it-all. And he really knows nothing.”
    Making him dead-on perfect for ESPN.

  87. Only a nancy boy would make statements about someone like that and then “prefer to remain anonymous.” Get the testicular fortitude to man up and put your name to your “work”.
    Butt Plug is 100% correct ESPN is a joke, they turn more TMZish every day. Furthermore, who can predict what each team wants? Why not just stick with ranking position players and stop sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong by telling America who will take who.

  88. Mayock’s fanboys don’t even have a clue. Some of you should go back and read what the idiot actually DID say about some of the prospects. I’m not a fan of the guy but I would put him far above McWrong, who is the worst that I’ve ever seen. From what I’ve seen from them over the years, I rate them Kiper, Mayock and pulling up the rear, Todd McWrong.
    I also wouldn’t find much comfort in the words of this “scout” when he talks about how this guy watches “hours and hours of tape” and then says “You might not always agree with his evaluations but he works hard at it and you have to respect that.” It would seem to me that if you’re going to watch that much tape, you might find more common ground with reality.

  89. heY, FreeAgentPro
    “HaHa….why would anyone check out Patriots Football Weekly if they don’t like the Patriots? IT doesn’t seem that the Pats drafts have been very productive recently, so maybe they should be reading what their own scribe predicts. ”
    I think your right, I think they should, especially Andy Hart. He and McShay are doing some pre-draft party this weekend at Gillette, would be interesting to hear what will be said there.
    Hoping Hart exposes McShame.
    Hey Flouride, got any of your moles attending?

  90. I don’t get this. Cowardly nameless detractors sound sillier than McShay ever does. I like him on ESPN, and don’t really get the manipulated uproar. SILLY!

  91. So? What else is new? Most of what ESPN presents to the viewing audience is meant for retards or small children. I stopped watching that channel years ago because they seemed to be more inclined to promote Chris Berman’s f&cking useless commentary than any real commentary of substance. F&ck ESPN. As soon as the NFL Channel came out, I even stopped watching NFL Live. God I hate ESPN.

  92. I’ve been preaching this about McShady for years. I’m not a fan of Kiper either, but he seems to be on the same page as Mayock and a few others. McShady is usually so far off and doesn’t realize it until a week before the Draft when he re-aligns his big board to match up with the know-it-all’s.

  93. I don’t doubt that McShay is full of crap, but it’s not like the scouts’ track record is sterling. Some scout on my Broncos thought trading a mid first round pick in this year’s draft was worth trading last year for a defensive back that isn’t even sniffing the starting lineup.
    That’s why I don’t get why teams are so reluctant to trade for established guys. Brandon Marshall and Donovan McNabb are proven in this league, but teams would rather take a flyer on a draft pick. I know they’re cheaper, but half those guys, particularly receivers and qbs, don’t produce jack.

  94. That’s why McShay and Kiper are “analysts” and not scouts. Their job isn’t to actually make the picks or tell teams what to do, but to speculate on it. They look at the players, and based on what they see, they are able to make assessments and predict what is going to happen. If these guys were scouts, they wouldn’t be working for ESPN. Kiper has been doing this forever, and he is occasionally right. The fact that he’s still doing this means that there has to be some credibility to what he says.
    Personally, of the talking heads on the network, I think Chris Mortensen is the most credible of the bunch, especially during the draft. He’s always checking his phone and making the breaking news. We’ll have to see how Adam Schefter fits in this year.

  95. The McShays, Kipers, and Mayocks can’t know more than the scouts of the NFL teams. Each GM has an army of scouts and staff who help them formulate their opinions and draft boards. The TV analysts are there to gather info from the scouts and GMs, watch a few tapes, and then present them to us in an entertaining format. I can’t stand when these guys come out with their high opinions of themselves and their predictions. When GMs screw up, they get fired. When the McShays screw up, no one remembers because it takes 3-4 years for these guys to develop or not.
    My solution for all of this, I suggest all draft shows and web sites should critique their predictions from 3 years ago. There’s nothing wrong with showing where they hit and where they missed. They can pound their chests when they were right, and they can issue humble apologies on their misses.

  96. The one flaw in the NFL guys opinion is that its not after the draft where the Draft expert is going to look like a fool or not.
    Its in the next year or two when the player either excels or flops.
    But I guess its really depends on what the draft expert is claiming. If he is simply stating where he thinks a player will go, that is one thing. That’s just evaluating and predicting how the draft will play out. You dont really need to do any film work for that. That is all talkign with your connections and understanding smoke screens from truths.
    If the draft nick is predicting where a player SHOULD be drafted, that is a whole different story. Is Clausen the best QB or Bradford, or someone else? Then it is BS to claim someone making that claim will be shown a fool at the draft. We wont know who is right until the players play in the NFL. If I tell you I think Clausen will be better then Bradford, am I proven wrong when Bradford goes #1 and Clasen lasts until pick 17?
    Finally Kiper (who I do not like) often focuses on “this guy was a reach” statement. Then people rip him saying “but the team needed a Strong Safetly and this was the best SS on the board.” But, if you could have traded down 7 slots and still drafted the same player, Kiper would be correct. That is often what Kiper points out on draft day.
    We are often too quick to rip a draft guy for what he says. But we often dont pay attention to what the guy is actually saying.
    Is it where a guy will be drafted base don what they here. Who could have tried to wait on a guy based on what they hear. Is it where they think a player deserves to be drafted based on their evaluation of the player?

  97. yea kiper and mcshay dont know everything and make mistakes, but NFL scouts are not much better. Russell, Carr, Alex Smith, Harrington, williamson, gholston… etc. the list goes on and on. so if the nfl scouts were so good why are there so many draft busts?!!!?!? kiper and mcshay are no worse than any of these nfl scouts.

  98. Well, maybe scouts are dishing out some “hype money” to these so-called analysts. Hey, i’m JUST SAYING…

  99. Well, maybe agents are dishing out some “hype money” to these so-called analysts/scouts. Hey, i’m JUST SAYING…

  100. Guys, yes Patriots Football Weekly is a team-owned newspaper, but they do a podcast several times per week (twice a week in the offseason) called “PFW In Progress”, which is broadcast through the team site or available in iTunes, and is really good (and funny as hell). Again, it’s not about being a Pats fan, as they talk a lot about general NFL, and sometimes no football at all. Random banter, the guys are great, there is only one Pats homer among them (Andy is actually a closet Steelers fan, but he’s most of the way out of that closet). Aside from the show lead, Fred, the other guys rip on the team (and local/national media) as much, or more, than anyone, and deliver non-homer perspectives on the team. They are certainly not Patriots apologists. Heck, there are fans of other teams that hate the Pats that listen and send emails, specifically some Colts fans that stumbled upon it one time. It’s truly a hidden gem in the world of the NFL, and better than 99% of the content out there. Sorry to sound like an ad for them, but I hate when people make snap judgements just because they see the name “Patriots”. Give it a try, and I bet you will be back, regardless of what team(s) you support!

  101. You mean there are actually people that still watch BSPN? I stopped watching their arrogant biases asses back in the early 1990’s.

  102. LOL the NFL scouts are just upset they don’t have the profile these guys do and routinely have to bounce around the league for a long time. Meanwhile, McShay and Kiper have guaranteed cushy jobs that pay much more than the grunts who have to schlep around the country looking for talent.

  103. From : Second, we talk about Todd McShay getting blasted by an anonymous source on PFT. Is that kosher for Florio to run an anonymous slamjob like that without getting some other side or corroboration? And who is this scout who wasn’t named? That seems awful cowardly, whether you agree or not.
    Now PFT/Florio is getting slammed for being cowardly with his anonymous slamjob. By implication, NBC reaches a new low for sponsoring this crap. I hope McShay puts the screws to PFT for such abysmal journalism standards.

  104. Florio has sunk to the level of a baglady for NBC. He seems to be ragging on McShay to cast doubt upon ESPN as a source of accurate information. One source surmises that NBC may be planning to launch its own predraft show using Florio. Florio is now considered a jealous coward for using an anonymous source to trash a much better known personality like McShay. It’s just pathetic.

  105. When I look at the guys that are doing this, I don’t take into account any of their mock drafts because you could probably give a monkey the chance to fill out one and it would probably be as right as many of them. They get more accurate as the draft gets closer but still, who cares.
    What I would rather focus on is what they have to say about the draftee and the team that he went to. For example, McWrong was all over Jerry Jones two years ago for taking Felix Jones over Mendenhall and he kept saying it was because both Joneses were alumni of Arkansas. The fact of the matter is that Jones was the perfect COMPLIMENT to Barber and Mendenhall wasn’t and they got the guy who could replace Barber, Choice, later in the draft. Any idiot out there would have been able to see who was the right choice but not McWrong. If you go back and watch what he says after each pick, you have to wonder if he ever watched the guys playing before he opened up his mouth. I’ve also seen that if Mel moves someone up on his draft board during the college season, McWrong is usually there to move him up a week later and he may fall in love with that player and keep him at the top of his list while the rest of the football world has written that player off.

  106. Why are the scouts picking on McShay and not the other suedo scouts? Is it because he comes across as arrogant and a know it all like Kiper first did? I’ve seen every single McShay opinion echoed by several other so called media experts. There were many who agreed with his take on Woodson, many who feel the same on Clausen and there were over a half dozen who shared his view on Snead before the start of the season (which is when McShay voiced his assessment). I highly doubt Snead and his family made the decision to enter the draft based on an opinion made nearly five months before, and if I’m not mistaken Snead stated he was entering the draft because of family financial considerations. For any scout to bring up someone’s missed assessment (Woodson seems to be the flavor of choice here) or even several mis-judgements of talent is ridiculous since all pro scouts have done exactly the same and then some. So the scout speaking to you Florio has a perfect record when it comes to his evaluations? I didn’t think so.


  108. The whole point for McShay and everyone else is to be entertaining. Since he is getting so much press, he is doing his job.

  109. Tompadre says:
    April 1, 2010 6:16 PM
    Why are the scouts picking on McShay and not the other suedo scouts? Is it because he comes across as arrogant and a know it all like Kiper first did? I’ve seen every single McShay opinion echoed by several other so called media experts. There were many who agreed with his take on Woodson, many who feel the same on Clausen and there were over a half dozen who shared his view on Snead before the start of the season (which is when McShay voiced his assessment). I highly doubt Snead and his family made the decision to enter the draft based on an opinion made nearly five months before, and if I’m not mistaken Snead stated he was entering the draft because of family financial considerations. For any scout to bring up someone’s missed assessment (Woodson seems to be the flavor of choice here) or even several mis-judgements of talent is ridiculous since all pro scouts have done exactly the same and then some. So the scout speaking to you Florio has a perfect record when it comes to his evaluations? I didn’t think so.
    ^ This.
    Also, is the story even worth printing if the guy wants to make these comments anonymously? Act like you’ve got a pair of balls and go on the record. Otherwise you’re just jealous.

  110. Mayock is the man. He’s the only one I pay attention to.
    –Amen. The man knows his foosball.

  111. I used to listen to Mel Kiper Jr pick games on the Tony Kornheiser radio show on 980 and he would go 9-1 or 8-2 on a regular basis and I can recall him having perfect sundays on multiple occasions. Kiper knows what he is talking about, he just looks and sounds like a douche.
    The best part of this article is the shout out to Mayock. Mayock is a snake charmer to us NFL nuts, I could listen to him and drift off into lalala land any day of the week. Mayock breaks things down with an attention to football detail that is unparralled. It also helps that unlike most talking heads Mayock has actually been through the draft process himself and has played on a Bill Parcells NFL roster.

  112. NightTrainNeckTie says:
    It also helps that unlike most talking heads Mayock has actually been through the draft process himself and has played on a Bill Parcells NFL
    Funny, I can name several guys that have been through the draft process and played on a Bill Parcells team and aren’t any better than Todd McWrong, who I think is the worst. I think that the “snake chrmer” description is NOT what I’d call a good description because it means that he could say that JaMarcus Russell was Da Bomb and you guys would believe it. Oh wait, he DID heap all that praise on Russell…

  113. NightTrainNeckTie, I know that you were talking about Mayock. I put Mayock in between Kiper and McWrong, with McWrong WAY behind both of them.

  114. Like most NFL nuts, I follow the draft closely. A couple of years ago I tested a sample my “knowledge” against Kiper’s in Round 1.
    The results? I had more Round 1 players right, more players to a given team right, and more players taken in a given draft slot right. In two of the three categories, I beat him by five.
    Skewed sample? Luck on my part? Maybe.
    Or does it more likely help prove what several here have already said, that is, given the time, the tools, the tapes, etc, many of us could be just as good at this thing as Kiper and easily better than McShay. Mayock? I’m not so sure.
    Bottom line though, Kiper and Florio have carved out lucrative niches for themselves doing what many of us could do just as well. And for that alone we should (occasionally at least) give it up to them.

  115. A couple of years ago I picked up the phone and canceled my insiders subscription after watching ESPN and deciding the Todd McShay had officially become a clown….True Story.

  116. I love Mike Mayock, but he thought Jamarcus was the best QB coming out over the last decade. He couldn’t have been more wrong.
    EVERY draftnik and scout gets plenty of them wrong. It’s like trying to hit a baseball…most fail over 70% of the time. A good draft guy is about the same.

  117. To everyone who says, “I don’t watch ESPN anymore”;
    You are typing words you fingers can’t cash. Search your feelings. You know what the truth is.
    And why do some of these boards sound like a middle school ‘your mama’ session?
    Remember back in the day someone would use a great line or word to say something bad about another kid? Then the rest of the school year that line or word was used over and over and over again?
    ‘Douche’ is that word on these comment boards.

  118. We can talk all we want about Mayock missing on Russel and being like “ooooooooooo, he missed on a physical freak that had all the scouts wowed.” or we can talk about the information and break down he has on every player, including the ones going 4th, 5th or later. That’s where scouting prevails. You don’t find hidden gems in the 1st round or even the 2nd round these days. Mayock is the man, but like everything NFL related it’s not an exact science.

  119. Oh, it’s much more than Jamarcus Russell…
    I remember him being high on Quincy Black, if memory serves. Ever heard of him? Nope.
    I remember him ripping Sidney Rice. How’s his career going these days?
    Yes, they ALL miss a large percentage of the time, so how is Mayock superior to the others? He isn’t. He’s just more palatable to some.

  120. So McShay was wrong about Snead, but the league was right about Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Jemarcus Russell, Cade McNown, Rick Mirer, Andre Ware, David Klingler……..?

    Seems like someone has an ax to grind.

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