Carl Johnson admits Visanthe Shiancoe TD should have counted

Vikings coach Brad Childress was furious Sunday night when Visanthe Shiancoe caught what was ruled a touchdown pass on the field, only to have the catch incorrectly changed to an incompletion on the replay review. On NFL Network Wednesday, V.P. of officiating Carl Johnson acknowledged that Childress had a reason to be angry: The Shiancoe touchdown should have counted.

“We wish the ruling on the field would have stood as a completed catch,” Johnson told Rich Eisen on the “Official Review” segment on NFL Total Access.

Johnson said that when a referee is reviewing a play like Shiancoe’s diving catch, he needs to look to see whether the ball moves at all when it hits the ground, or whether the receiver’s hands separate from the football. And Johnson said the referee in this game mistakenly thought the ball was bobbled, even though it wasn’t.

“In the referee’s judgment, he thought that there was movement — there was some loss of control,” Johnson said. “However, as we further assessed the play, we saw that there was not enough to change this call.”

Johnson didn’t specifically address Childress’s comments, which earned him a $35,000 fine. But it’s clear that Johnson is saying Childress is right: Shiancoe scored a touchdown, and a mistake by the referee took the touchdown off the board.

The “Official Review” segment also examined Ben Roethlisberger’s late fumble against the Dolphins, which was incorrectly ruled a touchdown on the field, then overturned on replay and ruled a fumble.

Miami fans are angry that the Dolphins weren’t awarded the recovery of the ball in the end zone, but Johnson said the referee correctly applied the instant replay rule — and he said the on-field ruling of touchdown was just a mistaken judgment.

“It’s just a judgment call,” Johnson said. “If, in an official’s judgment, a runner broke the plane, we want him to rule touchdown.”

62 responses to “Carl Johnson admits Visanthe Shiancoe TD should have counted

  1. No Shit.
    Tell us something we don’t know.
    Like a repeat of the NFC title game.
    Ref’s are worthless as replay.

  2. “It’s just a judgment call,” Johnson said. “If, in an official’s judgment, a runner broke the plane, we want him to rule touchdown.”
    -Especially if it is a Pittsburgh Steeler carrying the ball.

  3. “Sorry Mr Childress, we accidentally gave the game to the Packers. We will make up for it come Novenmber 21st.”

  4. Why do they keep saying the ball didn’t move? It clearly moved when he hit the ground. Hell, it was almost trapped between the ground and his forearms.
    Boo hoo hoo Queens fans.
    Packers got ripped out of a game on a BS call saying Francois was over the center on a punt. It was clearly wrong. Do you hear us bitching? No. We know sometimes we have to beat the other team and the referees.

  5. i cant stand how they keep saying they got the Roethlisberger call right, because of the replay rule.. sure thats rule when it comes to replays whats the excuse for getting it wrong on the field in the first place.

  6. On a related note… he also admitted that the Queens were overall a pretty bad team and would have found a way to lose the game anyway.

  7. so there was loss of control… but not enuff? well, way to be strict on the rules there sparky.. some loss of controll would mean no catch. /sigh

  8. This doesn’t excuse the fact that the Umpire was staring at Roethlisberger as he fumbled and should have immediately thrown the bean bag to indicate it as such… watch the replay, the guy just stands and stares like he’s an ESPN producer outside his neighbor’s window – minus the extracurricular activity.

    If he indicates fumble quickly enough it should have prevented the linesman from calling a TD and as a result allowed them to follow the scrum to determine who actually recovered the ball.

    I’m a Pats fan… didn’t care who won the game as long as it was legit.

  9. how can there be “some loss of control” but not enough to constitute losing control? BassAckwards logic…

  10. “It’s just a judgment call,” Johnson said. “If, in an official’s judgment, a runner broke the plane, we want him to rule touchdown.”
    Some Miami fans are complaining about the recovery and that was a judgment call about possession. The real issue is that an official signaled TD and stopped the play, not because he saw the ball cross the plane but because he ASSUMED there was a TD. (where the player’s body happens to be is irrelevent unless touching out of bounds). If there is any doubt, i.e. the official cannot see the ball (they confer on less important plays and get the call right all the time) or the ball is loose, let the play continue so it can be justly sorted out via replay. I think any questionable score should automatically be reviewed without costing the coach a challenge…save those for catches/fumbles not resulting in a potential score. There is too much at stake for the teams to not properly use the technology available. The Dolphins got jobbed by the knee-jerk call, not the replay.

  11. why even talk about this? If the officials aren’t going to change the score (and thus the outcome of the game), what’s the point? All this does is pour salt in the wounds of the bad feelings about poor officiating.

  12. Oh geeez, as if Viking fans don’t spend enough time whining and perpetuating their perceived victim status. Now they have an official admitting a bad call as if this is the only horrible call made and the Vikes are the only victims of bad officiating.
    This will be their “dangling chad” to hang onto during the cold, winless Minnesota winters. From here forward they will yell they were robbed and if that one touchdown had counted, Brett would have turned the season around and they would have won the Superbowl!

  13. How hard does the NFL really need to make this? It without question a touchdown catch, Why is it the NFL and their Ref’s do not know this? The whole process for review plays is such a circus. Like Bill Parcels said years ago “Just make the right calls”… Childress should not be fined either…

  14. How is it that these so called professional referees, with instant replay, can still be so inept?
    I’m not surprised that some people think the NFL is fixed.

  15. With all the miscues and bad offficiating the Vikes still were only nipped at the wire. I still like the Viking chances. If the Pats take the Vikes out this week all bets are off. Should be a great game!

  16. So an official could have cost the vikings the game and an official could have cost Miami a game (since they could have recovered if it was called a fumble like it actually was).
    Nice to know that 2 games were decided by officials and all we get from them is an opps, we wish they would have done better.
    Year after year and nothing changes.

  17. Two things:
    “In the referee’s judgment, he thought that there was movement — there was some loss of control. However, as we further assessed the play, we saw that there was not enough to change this call.”
    Enough what? Not enough movement? Does that mean you saw some but not enough? Or there wasn’t enough evidence to overturn?
    “It’s just a judgment call,” Johnson said. “If, in an official’s judgment, a runner broke the plane, we want him to rule touchdown.”
    That is funny as hell. It is a judgement call but you are telling them to rule it a TD. No wonder the officiating is all jacked up.

  18. Make it like the NHL have the NFL headquarters watch everygame and they decide the call on all reviews. It will save a ton of time on the reply and their call will be final. They then can’t come out 3 days later and say the refrees messed up. It would be so much more efficent.

  19. As a Vikings’ fan, I think the officiating was generally poor for both the teams. The Vikes just got the worst of it.
    If the game were called right, then the Quarless TD wouldn’t have counted. Harvin’s catch at the end of the game shouldn’t have been ruled a TD in the first place. Imagine if it were more than two minutes left and the Packers had no challenges. Now that would have created some controversy.
    I don’t think either team played exceptionally well and I am looking forward to the rematch at the Dome.

  20. I don’t think it matters what we give these guys, it’s not going to be enough. Every week. Every year, we have disturbing and egregious mistakes in officiating.
    I don’t know what the answer is. Make the refs full time so all they do is this? Have lifeline phone calls available to the league office so they don’t really screw up? Have an ombudsman at the games to review all disputed calls involving scoring plays?
    And then the fans of each team that gets jobbed have to live with knowing that a bad call decided the game, and maybe their season. It’s no wonder these guys are so hated.
    The emphasis needs to be on getting the calls right. It doesn’t matter how long it takes or how the referees look. Get all the calls right and the officials and the NFL will look better for it.
    It’s that or I’m bringing my rifle to the games…..

  21. There was absolutely no thought process going on when the official looked at the play during the game. Oh well, he didn’t blow the game. Brett Favre did, GET HIM OUT OF MINNESOTA!

  22. Part of a vast conspiracy to deny the Vikings a shot at the Superbowl, first there was the NFC championship game in New Orleans, now the Sunday night in Green Bay.
    Both games have two things in common, the Vikings lost and the Vikings had more turnovers than their opponents. Ignore for the moment that the ref’s also had questionable calls against the other teams and also ignore the statistical odds against winning a game where you turn it over more than your opponent, this is clearly a NFL mandated conspiracy to rob the Vikings of the glory that should be theirs. In fact, if they win this year’s Superbowl against such long odds, they should immediately rename the trophy from Lombardi to Col Klink/ Mr. Noodle/Putz-his-name Trophy to honor the biggest whiner, I mean winner, in the NFL.

  23. Watch the film from that official’s vantage point, it looks like Ben broke the plane w/the ball. That’s why he signaled TD & blew the whistle. You’d have to be have a two-digit IQ, be a Steelers-hater, or a sore loser to think the mistake was deliberate.
    Even PeeWee players understand the whistle ended the play. It doesn’t matter who emerged from the scrum w/the ball because those who heard the whistle or TD call stopped fighting for it. But the last shot from the endzone camera showed Roethlisberger arcing his arm around the ball and pulling it in before the others piled on. So it’s ridiculous to assume it would have been Miami’s ball. Had the whistle not blown and he kept fighting for the ball, it could as easily have been a Pittsburgh TD. Miami got the ball with ample time to score and couldn’t manage to get in field goal range. Move on already.

  24. It’s Karma for Chilly, since he always blames the officials for every loss. According to him he’s never lost a football game straight up. He’s the Bart Scott of coaching.

  25. With all the miscues and bad offficiating the Vikes still were only nipped at the wire. I still like the Viking chances. If the Pats take the Vikes out this week all bets are off. Should be a great game!

  26. Childress is a moron. So what that the official admits the call was wrong in private after the game. Chilly still should have kept his loser mouth shut. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME YOU BIG PU$$Y. His players don’t respect him and neither does anyone else now.
    The previous week, the ref called an illegal formation against the packers on a dolphins punt and the ball was handed back to the fins who scored a touchdown and went on to win with an overtime fieldgoal. The data was overwhelming. The call was wrong. Im sure the officials admitted same to McCarthy but he said his piece post game and moved on. Need I point out every helmet to helmet hit on Rodgers that goes uncalled including critical playoff calls. Refs admit mistakes privately, they are held accountable privately by the league. Thats the system. You don’t like it, look for change, petition the NFL, but don’t go blabbing to the media as if the only reason your team has only 2 wins is because of officiating. With the depth of talent on that team, the real reason they are underperforming is because their coach is a moron.

  27. Call what you SEE officials. Not what you judge to be a touchdown, or hope to be a touchdown guy that lives in Pennsylvania. Refs hold their whistles plenty of times to get it right @ the goal line, except for the guy who lives in Pennsylvania.
    How does he call TD when he can’t even SEE THE BALL?

  28. look. The refs sucked no doubt about it. But to single out as if that was their only erroneous call and cost vikings the game is ridiculous. I mean there were plenty of terrible other calls too, the no late hit late hit on collins, kuhn clearly wasnt down on that 4th and one, frank walker went out of bounds and was first to touch ball on that int..etc etc. this is just more attempts at excuse for failure, like favres injuries

  29. So Childress was right, had the nerve to call them out on it, and he gets a 35k fine for speaking the truth?
    In all fairness, they should rescind that ridiculous fine.
    And by the way, I am not a Vikings fan, just a fan of what’s right.

  30. So while the powers at be are giving out fines and suspensions around the league to players and coaches. Have they ever considered firing, fining and suspending the game officials. These morning after, sorry we blew doesn’t register in the won/loss column and definitely doesn’t ease the agony of fans affected by their teams loss.

  31. nstarqb says:
    October 27, 2010 8:54 PM
    Make it like the NHL have the NFL headquarters watch everygame and they decide the call on all reviews.
    The NFL won’t ever explore this idea because everyone (Including you Florio!) and the NFL knows that IT IS LOGICAL AND IT MAKES TOO MUCH FREAKING SENSE.

  32. I don’t remember this much angst over the 18-4 penalty difference in the Bears-Packers game. I also don’t remember such emotion after the bs illegal formation on a punt in the Dolphins-Packers game—which led to the game winning score. I also seem to remember during Sunday night’s game a non call on interference which led to an INT, a crap late hit penalty which led to points, and a quick whistle on a crucial 4th and 1 which after second effort was achieved. It is obvious that Florio and his lackeys are Vikings fans. Check out his Wikipedia page. It tells you everything you need to know. Let me say this again——the Vikings will NEVER win anything until they get some class. The history of that organization is pathetic and loathsome. Just think Florio, all your loser team has to do is win the next 12 world titles and you have tied the Packers!

  33. “Carl Johnson admits Visanthe Shiancoe TD should have counted”
    Tell us something that the entire country didn’t already know (outside of green bay that is)……the officials on average screw 2 teams per week out of victory. Johnson also went on to say that the Quarless td should have been ruled an incomplete pass. I agree with a previous poster, do it like the NHL does it… into the NFL command center and have them review it and then the NFL won’t have to embarrass themselves during the week with apologies. Packer fans remind me of the little ole’ lady in wisconsin who buys sweetcorn on sale 12 for a dollar and who sneaks 13 in her bag and tells everyone how good of a deal she got,lol……the worst part is the little ole’ lady actually believes it! LMAO

  34. I go back to the Calvin Johnson TD in week 1. And every week thereafter. I just don’t know what a TD is anymore. I guess I’m learning this new sport called American Football along with all the other millions of fans across the US.

  35. “In the referee’s judgment, he thought that there was movement — there was some loss of control,” Johnson said.
    Hot Carl better push rewind on that little nugget he offered up. There was SOME LOSS OF CONTROL. So, in your own judgement, how do you thrash a referee for making a judgement call wrong, when you end up saying that there was some loss of control? What game are you wanting to play here Carl? Are you living in Majoke’s world where you think you can have it both ways?
    Please enlighten the queen fans on the definition of control Carl, because you’ve been exceptionally explicit so far.

  36. OK, let me see if I understand…
    … you can wobble the ball between your hands,
    … until you bounce it off the ground,
    … and then dribble it under your body,
    … but only for the Vikings, right ???

  37. @bkbroiler
    Typical Packer fan… Do you ever get tired of talking about yourself?? You looked up Florio’s Wikipedia page?? You define loser

  38. Now that I think of it that tool Kevin Seifert from ESPN(he runs the NFC North blog) is a Vikings fan too. What is it with these Viking fans becoming bloggers? I guess after decades of losing it is the best way to get out your frustrations. Florio and Seifert—–SEASON OVER!!!!!!!!!!

  39. There’s a saying that bad calls happen to everyone. The great teams overcome them; the mediocre ones just whine about them. The Fins had 2:30 to move 40 yards for a FG of their own: they moved 4 yards. The Vikings had how long to make up for the bad call? Instead Favre throws 3 picks. Think that might have had something to do with them loosing?

  40. bkbroiler…typical holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, hypocritical Packer fan. You’re one of those idiots that truly believe everything their team does is right.
    I swear, you could put the characteristics of so many Packer rubes next to a checklist of Tea Party-lunatic criteria, and they are a perfect match.

  41. Am I wrong It’sJustAGame? Truth hurts doesn’t it? Why, after all the bad calls over the last few weeks in other games does this get the most attention? Because Florio is a HUGE Vikings fan. This website is great—-but he knows the season is slipping away and he is getting emotional like any fan. The problem is he wants to be thought of as a journalist. It can’t work both ways. Good luck with the 12 titles in a row thing.

  42. “In the referee’s judgment, he thought that there was movement — there was some loss of control,” Johnson said.
    There was some loss of control = INCOMPLETE PASS

  43. Start suspending the referees that make these atrocious calls. It’s simple.
    But that doesn’t take away the fact that the Packers won. Queen “fans” that are saying that 8 point swing would have been the deciding factor in determining the final score is like me saying if the grounds crew at Lambeau cut the grass 1/8″ shorter, Quarless would’ve caught that ball instead of letting that big bad grass monster cut him down, and thus the Packers would’ve still won 35-32. See the logic yet? Just because something happens during the course of the game, that doesn’t automatically reflect what SHOULD happen the rest of the game, thus affecting the final score. You can’t say the queens would have won if those calls were made in your favor. Nope.
    And Debra, quit being such a homer for once. What are you watching through your black and gold lenses that no one else saw or will see?

  44. I, for one, am as happy as can be that the Queens had a TD yanked, and that the Packers got a questionable TD. I wish every score the Packers made was illegitimate. I’m sick of seeing guys like Clay Matthews getting his mask yanked by turds like Loadholt several times a game without them being called. I’m sick of seeing guys like Tramon Williams pushed off before a completion (sometimes with a pass interference called against them) with no call.
    So, yeah, I am happy it worked out like it did. I’m happy to see it roll the Packers way for ONCE since I don’t know when.
    Queenies: suck it. And get used to it. Because your team does, too.

  45. People — and by people I mean a lot of Packer fans who know they were handed 8 points in a four point victory — miss the point of the Shiancoe catch.
    The officials got the call correct on the field (the NFL has admitted as much). But when reviewing, they went back and overturned the correct call and took points off the scoreboard. There’s no excuse for that. I can understand in the speed of the game an official missing a call. But there’s no excuse to miss it when you can go back and review multiple times from multiple angles.
    Especially when the rule of replay is there has to be indisputable video evidence to overturn the call.
    And BTW Packer fans, you can shut up about the bogus self-proclaimed title town. Pretty easy to win titles when there was only 8 teams in the NFL. You have won one true Super Bowl (with Brett Favre). So has Trent Dilfer. The first two were not Super Bowls (they were titled that later). It was a match up of the NFL’s champion — which the Vikings were in 1969 — and the AFL’s champion.
    From the time of the merger (the Super Bowl era) until Favre arrived, you were one of the worst franchises in the NFL, kind of a 1970s and 1980s version of today’s Buffalo Bills or Cleveland Browns.
    You don’t hear Minnesota fans crowing about the Gophers winning 6 national titles in football. Because we don’t need to validate ourselves by boasting what happened 30 years before we were born.

  46. So the cheeseheads still can’t take the fact that their victory was and is hollow and as much as they want to say the Vikings s ck they still can’t be the Vikings in GB with a QB who has two fractures in his ankle. hmm, yeah continue trash talking cheeseheads, have fun in NYC this week.

  47. HA! Someone calls Florio on his Vikings love and he shuts the blog down. That 12 titles in a row thing always works.

  48. why is it that no one has addressed the TD that was called back on the final drive? the ref was 5 ft away, replay shows him staring down at the Viking receivers foot 6-12 inches out of bounds, in the white, and he STILL somehow called it a TD??? that is unbelievable.

  49. Packer fans acting like they never complain about the refs… lol, that takes the cake. It’s not like these are holding/facemask/false starts/encroachment. These are plays that involve instant replay and dire consequences. People have a right to feel robbed…

  50. Did he also admit that Greg Jennings got a first down? Or that the Packers’ were wrongly penalized for a late hit that kept a Minnesota scoring drive alive? Or that the refs blew the whistle too early while John Kuhn was trying to make a first down?
    Sad. Just sad.

  51. To me it would be logical if the replay shows it is a fumble, but replay is unable to determine who recovered the ball, then the call should go back to the officials as to who recovered it. After all it is a lose ball, a ball that is up for grabs, a ball that neither team has possession of until someone recovers it. They owe it to the defense for forcing a fumble in the 1st place. But like always the NFL never thinks out the rules to the end.

  52. Since you scholars don’t seem to be able to understand this from the quote, I’ll try to explain. Johnson was talking when this statement was made. He didn’t type it out the way the way Smith did and distribute it.
    “In the referee’s judgment, he thought that there was movement(by he, Johnson means the ref who looked at the replay) — there was some loss of control (he is continuing his point about the ref. Not making a separate statement. He is not saying there was some loss of control. He’s saying the ref thought there was some, which is pretty strange if there wasn’t evidence to say so) ,” Johnson said. “However, as we further assessed the play, we saw that there was not enough (evidence of any kind, not merely loss of control) to change this call.”
    Does it make a bit more sense to you?

  53. All you fools who claim that the NFL and refs favor the Steelers are saying the following:
    “i am the biggest douche bag in the world. I love watching sporting events that are fixed. In fact, I love watching it weekly over and over again. I know it’s fixed but I keep on watching. I am an idiot. I have no life. I truly believe that the outcome is predetermined. But I still watch it and still get angry when I am right about it being fixed.”

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