Browns’ Joe Haden: “The fans are definitely on the players’ side”

Browns cornerback Joe Haden says he has no doubt about whose side the fans are on in the lockout.

“The fans are definitely on the players’ side,” Haden told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “Definitely on the players’ side. The owners? Come on. They’re making billions and billions. We’re making millions, but they’re making billions. It’s like, Come on, guys.
Let’s just get an agreement, let’s get everything right. It was good before the lockout. Let’s get it back to the way it was. I’m ready to play football, fans are ready to watch football. The owners are ready to sit in their suites and watch football too, so let’s just get it all together.”

Haden’s opinion doesn’t mesh with the poll we took of PFT Planet: Our poll showed that 37.9 percent of fans blamed the players for the labor mess, while only 24.4 percent blamed the owners. (Another 37.4 percent blamed both the players and the owners.)

But the fans we hear from aren’t interested in taking sides, except to say that they’re on the side of getting a deal done in plenty of time for the season to start.

144 responses to “Browns’ Joe Haden: “The fans are definitely on the players’ side”

  1. He can claim it all he wants, it’ll never make it true. Just a bunch of hot air. I don’t think many fans have any interest in supporting either side at this point. Just shut up and figure it out ya bunch of clowns.

  2. I’m not on anyone’s side who holds up NFL games being played. So, sorry Joe but speak for yourself.

  3. Well, now that Joe Haden, he of one year in the league has proclaimed this as fact, i’m sure the owners are going to rush back to the bargaining table.

  4. Oh Joe, get ready to be called ignorant, greedy, dumb, burger flipper without the NFL etc….The 37.9 percent on this site are very vocal. 3…2..1…

  5. You ain’t speaking for me Joe Haden. I’m on the fan’s side. I think both the players and the owners are being absurd. Git her done and let’s move on. You will all still be rich.

  6. I want a deal to get done like everyone else, but if were taking sides here, I’m with the owners.

  7. You players are no different then XBOX, Wii or any other games. When we get bored with you in the trash. We have very little patience with the rich as you may not know we aren’t rich.

  8. …and another player who opens his mouth making himself look dumb. The owners aren’t making billions. They may have billions, but not because of what they are making from the NFL.

  9. Yeah your right Joe the same people whose union leader is more worried about his political aspirations than getting a deal done. Not to mention trying to get read of the beloved NFL draft….

  10. Someone needs to tell these guys that We The Fans just want football. Nobody really cares who wins of loses or who is right or wrong! The fans are on the players side? I’m on the side that gets this over and done with. Nothing more nothing less. Personally I think both sides need a reality check. You’re dividing over 9 Billion dollars. For gods sake just make a deal before you do what baseball did and do irreparable harm to the game that you claim to love.

  11. This guy has to get out there more – he has no sense of what the fans want. The fans don’t identify with either the millionaires or the billionaires in this struggle, but they sure realize that it’s the players who walked away from negotiations and it’s the players who filed an antitrust suit that threatens to dismember the game. Fans don’t want football, which provides the most competitive product thanks to a relative parity, due to draft and free agency and salary cap rules, to resemble baseball, where a few teams dominate due to being big market teams. So no, we don’t side with the players. The players, if they knew what they were arguing for don’t even side with the players (as evidence from the Gonzalez article earlier this afternoon).

  12. I’m unemployed looking for a 40+ a week job that If I’m lucky will pay me at least 40,000 a year and Joe Haden thinks I’m on the side of players that are crying about making hundreds of thousands of dollars to even millions to play a freaking sport for a living. Wrong.

    It’s the owners game, they own the teams. If you dont like their rules go get a normal job like everyone else and people that dont mind playing a professional sport for a living like myself will gladly sign up for a measly 50,000 a year.

  13. I’m not saying the players are some innocent group of victims, but the fact that there will be no football is 100% on the owners. There is no dire fiancial situation forcing them to shut down the season. I’ll agree that the players are a bunch of greedy d-bags, but so are the owners.

    I’m going to focus my anger on the group ultimately responsible for me possibly not getting to watch football. The owners.

    Let the lawyers do what they do, but let the season go on under 2010 rules.

  14. Joe, you are living in a dream world if you think there are any heroes in this mess. The players should have hired someone who wanted to get a deal done and not a lawyer who just needs to”win” to further his own career.

  15. Soory Joe…I dont think too many fans are on your side…what happens when all us fans boycott going to games and just watch on tv?…You still get paid but the owners…you know the ones that have the FINANCIAL RISK,they are going to lose a lot of money…you guys must be smoking crack to think that us fans could be on any side…WE AS FANS ARE PRETTY SICK OF IT…


  16. The Green Bay Packers, the only team in the NFL with open books since they are a publicly-owned team, turned a profit of $14 million last year (according to Sirius NFL radio).

    Nothing to sneeze at, but that doesn’t quite equal “billions and billions”.

    Haden fails to realize that the owners are running a business. A business exists to be profitable. Joe Haden doesn’t have ANY money invested in a team. He signs a contract, he gets his money. The owners have to make sure that the business model is viable for years to come.

  17. The only “side” I’m on is my own, which wants you idiot players and you idiot owners to settle this idiotic mess and play some damn football.

    you guys are trying to destroy the game by eliminating the draft and what not …

    I can’t say for sure that i’m on the owners side, but i’m Definately NOT on the players side for that reason alone

  19. I have an idea, let’s eliminate all types of professional sports. We will have the Olympics to showcase athletic talent but that’s it. That should solve the problem, which is that both the owners and players are too greedy!! Let these owners and players make $20k-7ok per year like the average person working a “normal” job and see how they like it! The fans should “strike” if there is an NFL season and just not go to the games and make them all work those “normal” jobs and they’d quickly realize they had it VERY good and were just too greedy!

  20. I’m a diehard Browns fan. Always have been. I live in the Cleveland area and I can tell you for a fact that Haden is wrong. We are mostly against the players right now. The owners own the teams because it’s an investment. Let them make however much they want. That’s how it works. The players get paid millions to catch a ball and do something that I do in my backyard every weekend for FREE. So I think the players should sack up and make this thing happen. Sorry, Joe.

  21. I am all for seeing the players get what they deserve, but because of the players lawyers, I do blame the players for not negotiating and getting something done, rather than just posturing. Until the PA lawyers drop the facade, I am with the owners on this.

  22. Come on Joe, why would you offer up your opinion on this? This is where you take the easy way out and say you “Just want to play football”.

  23. Joe Haden you are most definitely wrong. The fans are on the fans side. I have an idea maybe the players should take a little less and maybe the owners should take a little less. That money saved could be passed on to the fans so we can actually afford to take our families to games. Billionaires fighting with Millionaires GIVE ME A BREAK!

  24. Definitely, Joe?

    How stupidly presumptuous of you. When you guys walked away from negotiations, you painted just as big of a target on yourselves as the owners did. Both sides are guilty of ignorance and greed. Now you know.

  25. earth to Joe Haden

    earth to Joe Haden

    come in come in

    what planet are you on and stop smokin that herb

    I am not saying if I am on anyones side but everyone I talk to blames both sides equally or for the most part feel the owners are less to blame

    you are a pinhead my man!

  26. Joe….Joe….Joe….sit here by me, now, listen carefully:

    The billionaires write your checks. They made you a millionaire. They WRITE the checks, Joe. Repeat, they WRITE the checks, Joe. They are your BOSS, Joe. We all have to do what our BOSS says, Joe. You included. You are an EMPLOYEE. Hired help, Joe. You get paid to do what you are told, Joe. After all, Joe, most of you players would be flipping burgers if you weren’t playing football, Joe. Tom Brady would be selling insurance, Joe.

    Be grateful, Joe. Be thankful, Joe. You are a millionaire. Now go kiss your team owner’s behind and apologize.

  27. Um, Joe. Hate to break it to ya but the fans are “definitely” not all on your side. And I would know cuz I’m a fan and I’m not.

    Oh, and another thing, thanks for insulting us by assume we’d be on your side just cuz you have less money than the owners.

  28. I would love to see the books that shows any team makes Billions of Dollars the entire league makes 8 billion a year half of that goes to the players the other half the owners!

    4 billion divided by 32 subtract expenses equals what?

    less than 125 million I would bet even less than half of that an NFL team is not Microsoft the profit margins for most teams are probably less that 10%.

    Do NFL owners make a lot when they sell a team yes they do! But isn’t that why you get into business to make money?

  29. Does Joe Haden know that D. Smith and his fellow lawyers are trying to kill the NFL as we know it – get rid of the draft, free agency, salary cap, etc.?

  30. He’s mistaken — the fans are on the fans’ side — we want football and are looking for a hero who can get it for us.

  31. Once again yet another one that should keep his mouth firmly closed.. ohh of course he is a Brownie what have they done lately

  32. Hey Joe:

    Joe Haden most likely got his info from DEmo Smith. Either that, or he is the most out of touch with reality player in the league.

  33. Sorry Mr. Haden you are above and beyond wrong. Keep talking though, you might convince a few fools along the way.

  34. I just go back to Art Rooney’s net worth. One of the best owners in football (And I am not even a steelers fan) and he is only worth what? 150 Million?

    I fail really find it hard to believe that Art Rooney means about the same to football as Albert Haynesworth. Even though their bank accounts are similar.

    Owners get rich from something else and invest in a football team. I think the players need to be informed. I agree though no one cares about all this. Make a deal and let the offseason begin.

  35. The players aren’t buying/driving the media like the MACHINE the NFL is doing. Haden should read the comments on here.

    I do not understand how anyone could be on the owners side. Both sides had an agreement. The players would go back to work now. The players already have said they will give the rookie wage scale.

    The owners want another billion off the top. Lets blame the players for not just giving it to them.

  36. anyone who pays attention to the issues is pro player..the blind sheep who listen to whatever the frauds goodell and pash say are the only ones pro owner (except for on this site it has been taken over by accounts for all the league personell,owners and interns)

  37. Not to take sides because I hate them both, but gun to my head, I’d side with the owners every time.

    Why? Because I read the news, which is full of players who are completely out of touch with reality comparing themselves to slaves and Godell to Nazi policemen.

    Also because the NFL still officially exits, the NFLPA* is a sham and “does not”.

    Also because they play a sport for a living, which is not a job. I could careless hearing about these players who barely make ends meet, save your measly $300K salary them.

    Owning an NFL team is a job not a hobby, they bare all the financial risk and make decisions that are affect more than just a first down.

  38. This is a completely delusional take on the situation. Like Smith says, most fans are on the side of getting a deal done. A very small amount of people are actually taking the player’s side, and I think the majority of those people are uninformed.

  39. I think that poll’s results are skewed…

    Everyone knows that the owners lackies are always on here to vote in the owners favor.

    I have been lurking this thing for years and have only recently (since the lockout) seen so many new posters, who all seem to vote in league favor, it’s obvious.

    PFT also panders to the owners… but you guys do it in a very subtle manner that escapes most people.


  40. I”ve been a fan for over 30 years, and I side with the owners if it means no draft or free agent rules.

  41. He’s clueless – like most, if anybody – we’re on the owners side.

    These idiot players are just passing through – the owners are here to stay

  42. Us fans clearly believe both sides are at fault for this lengthy lockout, but of course we are going to side with the players…haden is stating the obvious. Fans watch, root for, and idolize the players, not the owners. That aside, both the players and owners need to swallow their pride and get this thing ironed out, for the sake of the fans and for the game. Wheres the integrity? It is a game still isnt it?

  43. Al Davis was sitting around one day, watching the news of the Libyan conflict going on, and he sees this one dude just lobbing absolute precision grenade throws blowing all kinds of stuff up in the battle.

    He immediately gets on the phone to find this soldier and bring him in to Oakland for a workout. Eventually the soldier agrees to come work for Al Davis and train to be the new Quarterback for the Raiders.

    The Raiders end up winning the Superbowl with their new quarterback, and Al Davis is ecstatic! He can’t believe it. So he talks to his quarterback “OMG! We just won the Superbowl! I’m so grateful to you! I’ll give you anything you want! Anything! You name it, you got it.”

    The quarterback ponders the question for a moment. “All I want to do is call my dear mother…”

    Al: Oh… okay then. Get her on the line!

    The quarterback eventually calls his mother, and he tells her “Mother, things are amazing! I just won the Superbowl! And I was the MVP in the game!” His mother responds… “Who cares! Your father has been murdered, your brother has been shot, and your sister has been raped!”

    Quarterback: “Oh my lord, really?”
    Mother: “yes! I can’t believe you made us move to Oakland!”

    Thumbs up if you’ve never heard the joke… thumbs down if you have.

  44. He’s right. ESPN Sportsnation has done many polls on this. The fans consistently side with the workers/players on a 3-to-1 basis. Some of our favorite players make very little money compared to the stars of the league and the owners, especially.


  45. Hey he is just going by what he is hearing from his people n friends etc etc…but he is wrong in the end.Only 1 person that i know is actually on the players side.I am on the Owners side for the most part but they are BOTH to blame

  46. lol. they are making billions and we are making millions…and most fans are making under 50k. I don’t think the fans care either way other than having something to watch on tv on Sunday when they are not working. if i was a player, i would not be complaining about making millions when most of the “fans” will never make 1 million during their lifetime.

  47. Joe you are a class act and a hell of a DB but you are dead wrong here buddy…we are NOT on the side of the palyers….

  48. Sorry Joe, but the fans are on the side of playing football and once you players start missing game checks you will come running back to the negotiaing table with your tails between your legs. The owners have all the leverage so let’s just get deal done now before you start losing real money and end up agreeing to the same deal in September that you could agree to now.

  49. Joe Haden is an idiot. I’m on the side of my team, and in extension, football.

    I really don’t care about the players save for how well they contribute to the team winning. And when they’re gone, I don’t care…

    Every year new ‘football heroes’ are drafted. Every year there are new surprises. And every year is the final season for a lot of very good players who will never be heard from again…

  50. Haden said it himself…it was good the way it was before…making his big paychecks..he definitely spent all his money already and wants this agreement done asap

  51. Insofar as the players as represented by Kessler want to eliminate the draft, the salary cap, the salary floor, and all free agency restrictions I do not support the players.

    Insofar as the owners want to threaten to cancel football games until the players give them exactly what they want, I do not support the owners.

    I just want a new CBA, is that too much to ask?

  52. For all its posturing to gain favor with the public, the league has made clear by its actions on many issues (European expansion/UK games, for one) that it doesn’t care what fans think about anything. And Haden shouldn’t get c*cky because no matter what side we started on, if they don’t resolve this mess before it drags into the season, we’re all going to be fed up with the whole bunch of them!

  53. Gullible poster of the day:

    centexhorn says:
    Apr 23, 2011 3:59 PM
    He’s right. ESPN Sportsnation has done many polls on this. The fans consistently side with the workers/players on a 3-to-1 basis.

    Dude, it’s called freeping. That’s where a small amount of people use vote bots or otherwise spam a non-scientific, non-controlled poll to skew the results. For example:

    The conservative American Family Association (AFA) said it will not take the results of its marriage poll to Capitol Hill after a majority of respondents favored same-sex marriage, according to a Thursday report in Wired News.

    You understand now? On-line polls are meaningless. It just takes the concerted effort of a few partisans and a simple macro to destroy them.

    Another term for on-line poll skewing is to ‘phrangulate.’ Never really caught on. Not like freeping.

    Anyway, you’ve got to be dumb as a box of rocks to think those Sportsnation polls mean anything. Without unique IDs in the voting, the freepers destroy them.

    You get a better idea here, where the comments require someone to log into a unique account and say what they’re going to say. And those comments do not run toward ‘favoring’ the players at all.

  54. No Haden, we are not on your side. We are actually pi$$Ed at both the players and owners. Get a damn deal done.

  55. Yeah, Joe Haden is a Stand up guy, overall pretty cool dude, and great football player, but I think he’s basing his comments on all the fans he runs into at events around Cleveland. Of course they are going to support him and the players when they meet him, they are jock sniffing fans. I’m pretty sure they got the quote at his charity bowling event where he was putting a few drinks down with some of Cleveland’s finest. Anyways, I don’t support either of the suits on both sides. Most of the players and all of the fans want this done. When you get the pencil neck geek lawyers and De Smith involved is when it all gets clusterfudged. Go Fans Go Browns.

  56. Perhaps Joe should look up what the word “Definitely” means. Theres an old joke he could learn to help him remember..

    For a homework assignment a teacher asked her 3rd grade class to think of a sentance for each of their vocab words. The first word was Definitely. First she called on little Susie.
    Susie said “The sky is definitely blue”
    “Well” said the teacher “sometimes the sky is black or grey.”
    Next she called on little Joey
    “Grass is definitely green”
    “Well sometimes the grass is brown like in winter” she said. Then she called on little Timmy
    “Do farts have lumps?” He asked
    “I dont see what this has to do with anything, but no they dont” she replied
    “Then i definitely sh*t my pants”

    There ya go Joe..that should help ya out a bit

  57. I’m sorry, but Sirius Radio has its numbers wrong. For the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010, the Green Bay Franchise had a net income of 5.2 million dollars. Income from operations was 9.8 million, and the difference in the two numbers represents the loss on investments the franchise has held.

    Regardless, the number is down from 35.8 million net income at the inception of the latest CBA. The decrease over that period of time is why Mark Murphy, and anybody with half a brain, can say that the current situation is unsustainable for Green Bay; and I’m sure for many other teams.

    As things stand now, awaiting the numbers from the year ending March 31, 2011, 11 members of the current Green Bay roster will EACH make more than the Packers as an organization made.

    That just doesn’t fly. The CBA has to work for the teams as well as for the players. The players insist that they are “partners” in the NFL, that they deserve 50% of every revenue dollar that comes in the door, but they don’t want to be responsible for any expenses nor for any capital expenditures.

    For example if the players are indeed partners, can a union supporter out there tell us why the players will not contribute to the cost of a new stadium in Minnesota, but the taxpayers of Minnesota, all taxpayers, not just football fans, are expected to contribue?

    That doesn’t fly either.

  58. Dumbo has a peanut for a brain.

    1.)No Fans aren’t on your side

    -Millionares vs Billionares
    Once again I’d side with the owners because at my job I can’t just stop working to demand more money so why can you dumbo? if I did I’d get fired…

    Plus it’s not millioares vs Billionaress because what owner makes a profit of a billion dollars in one season? so really players are making billions s0 it’s billionares vs billionares

  59. How is this on the players?

    It was the ownership and Goodell who decided to wait til the last minute to get a deal done…

    its the owner’s who want the superior leverage over the players so they locked THEM OUT, as opposed to continue to negotiate a new CBA.

    Thats what all the buzz is supposed to be about – Lifting the LOCKOUT ENFORCED by THE OWNERS.

    Lift the dam lock out, go argue over your millions while you play football and theres no bad guys – see owners..this isn’t so dam hard is it?

  60. I know its not much but I’m not even watching the draft, I’ll be listening on the radio. I’m so disappointed in every aspect of the NFL right now I’m not going to contribute to their TV ratings and add to their pleasure in the assumption that no matter what they do, the fans will always be there. Makes me sick

  61. Billions? Umm Joe…the owners do not make billions. In fact according to Forbes only the Redskins are worth more than a billion dollars coming in at 1.1 billion

    The top 5 franchises by value are:

    Washington Redskins NFL Daniel Snyder $1.1 billion
    Dallas Cowboys NFL Jerry Jones $923 million
    Houston Texans NFL Robert McNair $905 million
    New England Patriots NFL Robert Kraft $861 million
    Philadelphia Eagles NFL Jeffrey Lurie $833 million

    Joe you are grossly misinformed. Are the owners making many millions? Yes, and they deserve to since they are the OWNERS and you are an EMPLOYEE.

  62. i’d like to know which fans he is asking.i am a fan and i say fire all the players and let the owners set up their new rules and then go out and draft and sign all new players…………i also think it is very hard for a blue collar worker to sympathize with a player that gets a twenty million dollar contract and then feels the nfl owes him health coverage and a retirement…..i would think at twenty million you can buy your own health care and hire a accountant to set up your own retirement fund…..

  63. Joe,
    You overestimate the average PFT poster if not the average fan.
    They want you to learn your place and think watching MAC level football in their favorite jersey’s are going to make them happy.

  64. act no joe..were on none of ur sides..they make billions u make millions n most of us make thousands n some not even F- u..we want to see football we dont care if u make 300 a week or 5 mil a week..we want football…

    so were on our side..theres 3 sides..owners, players, and us!

  65. “The fans are definitely on the players’ side”

    Stop speaking for the fans, Joe, because you’re wrong.

  66. @iced107 – you left out the fact that it’s the players that have started in motion a lawsuit that will likely destroy the game of football. And having decertified it’s not a unified group bringing it and thus arguably any single one player can push that lawsuit to its conclusion, which may be to reduce football to the shambles and lack of parity seen in baseball. The players have a lot more to answer for than the owners at this particular time. Now, it’s still salvageable, but at this moment it’s the millionaire owners seeking to destroy football with their antitrust lawsuit, versus the owners taking the fan-friendly position of wanting to improve the game by keeping the Peyton Mannings of the league from jumping from team to team each year with no team loyalty for the highest dollar, and by eliminating the Jamarcus Russell style payouts for nonperforming rookies. Hard to say the players are right in this, even if they do deserve a larger slice of the pie. You don’t get people to want to give you more pie when you threaten to ruin the pie for everyone if you don’t get what you want. It’s leverage of the worst kind and it’s called blackmail. Which is sometimes effective, but never popular with fans. It’s like negotiating with terrorists. Nobody ever thinks the terrorists are deserving even if they ultimately get what they demand.

  67. Incorrect, Mr. Haden.

    Maybe he polled the same people Goodell polled about the 18 game schedule.

  68. Hayden played in the SEC..strike one
    Hayden plays for the Browns..strike 2
    No football Hayden can get a job with his college education..STRIKE 3!!!

  69. @moseszd

    No one has any incentive to “freep” such a poll. People just casually answer them. They don’t try to game them. You’re in denial. All of y’all neocons are in denial. People support the players.

    What kind of website is this? Am I on DrudgeReport all of a sudden? FFS

  70. @moseszd

    Not to mention, hundreds of thousands of people respond to the polls on SportsNation. Anybody trying to game them would be a drop in the bucket.

    75% of fans side with the players.

  71. Take out the option to blame both sides – and he’s right.

    More importantly – he can ball – big time baller

  72. Man, you guys need to chill. Obviously, the fans are on the fans’ side. And what the fans want is football. And I doubt any of us fans care about the steamy details of the labor contracts. We just want football.

    As for Joe, he’s allowed to express an opinion. He didn’t steal your ice cream cone. You don’t have to vilify him. I’m more perturbed by Wes Welker’s comments about “we should have a lockout every year” because he’s liking the time off.

  73. @moseszd
    Thank you for an excellent post. Internet polls are ridiculous. I would give more credence to the people that post on PFT, I think they are the hardcore NFL fans. It is more than obvious they are not on the players side, and nearly every time the players open their mouths they make themselves look bad. I have lived through a number of professional sports work stoppages, I hope for the NFL’s sake this doesn’t drag into August.

  74. Sorry Joe, you are wrong. Please wipe the Smith & Kessler cobwebs from your mind. We want all aspects of the game back, not a winner or loser, per se. Winners and losers are for the field, not the courtroom, or the court of public opinion.

  75. Unless you’re making roughly the same amount as an average American, we’re not on your side. We’re on the side that is saying “You guys are all being idiots. Let’s get to playing football.”

  76. “We’re making millions, but they’re making billions. ”

    Yeah, and the fans who are paying you are making dozens. Get real. Get in touch with reality. Get a job.

  77. iced107 says: Apr 23, 2011 4:45 PM

    How is this on the players? ***** Let me show you*****

    It was the ownership and Goodell who decided to wait til the last minute to get a deal done… ****** The Owners made a credible offer giving ground on several issues. De Mo and the players WALKED AWAY FROM THE TABLE and SHAMMY – FIED *****

    its the owner’s who want the superior leverage over the players so they locked THEM OUT, as opposed to continue to negotiate a new CBA. ***** The Players believe De Mo about winning the legal battle – that is why THE PLAYERS NEVER MADE AN OFFER OR A COUNTER-OFFER*****

    Thats what all the buzz is supposed to be about – Lifting the LOCKOUT ENFORCED by THE OWNERS. ***** HELLO, De Mo, COME BACK TO THE TABLE AND MAKE AN OFFER YOU GREEDY A$$HOLE*****

    Lift the dam lock out, go argue over your millions while you play football and theres no bad guys – see owners..this isn’t so dam hard is it? ***** COME BACK De Mo. And why haven’t TOMMY, PAEYTON, and THE REST OF THE PLAINTIFFS NOT BOTHERED TO COME TO COURT – ISN’T THIS IMPORTANT TO THEM? WHERE IS TOMMY AND HIS PONYTAIL?*****

  78. Man, I would love it if someone would cut and paste all this feedback and send it to him…then ask him the same question.

  79. for anybody interested (for example in ESPN poll data) you should read a very short, funny, and educational (OH NO!) book called “How to Lie
    with Statistics” by Darrell Huff – it will change the way you take EVERY ounce of poll data and statistical analysis you see/hear for the rest of your life!

  80. @ravensfan4life52 says …

    if 75% of the fans side with the players then 75% of the fans are idiots.
    Most of the people who can’t wait to jump onto this site and babble about idiot players and their idiot issues have no idea what the issues are.

    @moseszd …

    You’re right about online polls, of course, but not about sites where people have to log on and comment.

    Fewer than 10 percent of most blog readers bother to comment. On PFT, commenters make up an even smaller percentage of the millions of unique readers who visit each month. You can’t draw conclusions about that many readers from the comments of such a small percentage–for the same reason you can’t trust online polls: “It just takes the concerted effort of a few partisans …”

    A simple search will show that within a week of decertification, PFT picked up a large number of new users all posting rabidly anti-player commentary. Given the extremely vocal anti-union sentiment among certain political factions, it shouldn’t surprise anyone to read the same sentiments here. And some “fans” are always quick to grouse about the “idiots” who get paid a fortune to play a game.

    Fans who’ve bothered to study the issues on their merits may be divided between which side is to blame, but should recognize it’s been handled badly by both and is not proceeding in a positive direction for either. It’s in our interest now to stop taking sides and pressure players and owners to find a speedy resolution.

  81. iced107 says:
    Apr 23, 2011 4:45 PM
    How is this on the players?

    It was the ownership and Goodell who decided to wait til the last minute to get a deal done…

    its the owner’s who want the superior leverage over the players so they locked THEM OUT, as opposed to continue to negotiate a new CBA.


    I hate to break it to you but the players broke off negotiations, decertified and filed the antitrust lawsuit BEFORE the owners locked them out.

    For someone who took the time to post on this site you don’t know common knowledge that’s been posted on this site many times?

  82. Wrong, wrong, wrong! He should have been in Austin with Colt and the other Browns that actually want to play again. Check out the latest poll, dumb butt.

  83. Hey Joe, how many tens of millions if not hundreds of millions dollars are you and Dbag Smith and Milk toast Godell going to give those scum bag lawerys? Money that could help how many people on this planet? Players, owners, Godell, Dirtbag Smith, and most of all your army of lawerys, please injest fecial matter, sodimize yourselfs, and expire!!! Do it for the fans you all keep talking about

  84. Joe, lets say you are right, which I do not believe you are but for this post, you are right. Please tell me what good that does for you? I’m retired, I will let you see my books but I cannot pay you, I cannot pay your insurance, I cannot pay your retirement so I would suggest you worry more about your union leaders making a deal. It does not matter Joe. I cannot sign a CBA for you.

  85. What a shock; a player says something, and the conservative, anti-players mob jumps all over it.

    Neither side is right, but you imbeciles sure make the owners out to be saints.

  86. @Deb

    I know the issues. The owners were negotiating like professional business people do. The players walked away like children because they realized they weren’t going to get their way. so do i blame the players and side with the owners? yes.

  87. bensstinkyfingers says: Apr 23, 2011 4:35 PM

    Yeah, Joe Haden is a Stand up guy, overall pretty cool dude, and great football player, but I think he’s basing his comments on all the fans he runs into at events around Cleveland. Of course they are going to support him and the players when they meet him, they are jock sniffing fans.

    DING DING DING DING…winner. I believe Haden DOES actually believe this to be true because outside of fans screaming their displeasure at games and booing which is fairly anonymous, how many fans who players see while out and about or even at TC are going to do anything but kiss their booty to get autographs, etc.?

    I continue to notice that many pro player people remain consistent in their “owner shill” accusations over the past several posts I have read on the labor unrest tonight. I have seen a couple pro owner people make the accusation about pro player people as well but that belief appears to be heavily in favor of player supporters. I have seen new posters appear since the labor unrest on BOTH sides of the fence though. I do laugh when I see it used as a compelling or valid argument for anything…that will never change regardless of which side makes the accusation (or how many times eyes get rolled at me by Deb and she scolds me violently and feels I am referring to her specifically and insulting her in particular which isn’t true. :D).

  88. Hey Joe! The fans are fed up with 100 dollar tickets, 80 dollar jerseys and rookies getting 45 million dollar contracts! We are on our own side! 99% of us cannot afford Cavs floor seats like You! If you want us on your side, take a paycut and show us you are on our Side!

  89. Deb says:
    Apr 23, 2011 8:32 PM

    Most of the people who can’t wait to jump onto this site and babble about idiot players and their idiot issues have no idea what the issues are.
    Most of those people you refer to tend to be pro-player. How do I know? Because a large percentage of pro-player posts contain gross inaccuracies and contain condescending language (see above).

    You have proplayer posters claiming that the lockout stopped negotiations. Not true. Players wanted to negotiate. Not true as evidenced by not a single counter offer to any proposal (including the ones made days before decertification) and the fact they decertified when the owners wanted to continue mediation.


    Given the extremely vocal anti-union sentiment among certain political factions, it shouldn’t surprise anyone to read the same sentiments here.

    Way to slide that hate/political accusation in there. The fact of the matter is, unions, once they get something rarely if ever give anything back short of being forced to (ie. Bankruptcy). Even with the books open (Maytag) unions typically would rather see a business fail (Maytag/UAW) than take a rational stance where it’s better to take less and protect the majority.

    Please take a look at the NBA who opened their books earlier this year and see how their negotiations are going? The NBA players association is using the books as a large money grab to try to get money from the owners other businesses. It’s a worse mess than the NFL negotiations.

    I would have more respect for the players if they had stayed withing the bounds of normal labor negotiations. The lockout is as valid as a strike would’ve been. The running to the courts crying irreperable harm really bothers me. Also, with the union being intractable during negotiations and lack of counterproposals it would be hard to argue that their primary strategy wasn’t to get a hearing in front judge Doty ASAP.

  90. These playes are as delusional as crack addicts. Nobody is on their side. Nobody is on the owners side either. We don’t care. Just play ball and quit whining. If the owners take their ball and go home these bozos will have to go work at regular jobs.

    I for one am happy just watching high school and college football.

  91. Now there’s a surprise…Someone fom Cleveland that makes any sense.

    Come on Joey…..NOT ANY FANS like what’s going on let alone supporting you and the players.

    Your a good D-back….keep your mouth shut and try to make an interception will ya.

  92. Sorry Joe, it’s ignorant and delusional players like you that leans to the side of the owners by every growing minute.

    Oh yeah Joe, before I log out, one last thing…. For all things practical, stylish and in good taste, take those overpriced and dopey looking black diamonds out of your ears. Please. You have the ears of a fruit bat, and the LAST thing you should be doing is drawing attention to them!!


    Informed NFL fans with normal lobes.

  93. @CKL …

    I 🙄 because it all seems so obvious. But maybe that’s my corporate communications background. Management used to ask me to do some funky stuff 🙂

    Numbers vary, but let’s say PFT averages 7-8 million unique visitors/month, which includes fans, sports reporters, agents, team execs, coaches, players, and people working for the league.

    PR is an important league function, so when the lockout occurred, it’s logical that a couple of league employees already monitoring the site would post some pro-owner comments. Plus many in PFT’s audience are conservatives who are anti-union. They registered to post on a political issue about which they are passionate.

    I haven’t seen nearly as many pro-player comments, but it’s the same thing. Players and player reps are reading the site anyway, so of course some of them have registered to “set the record straight” from their perspective.

    And then there are longtime commenters like you and I who post our opinions on everything, including the labor issue.

    None of this seems terribly Jack Ryan to me. It’s just the way things work in these situations.

  94. @ravensfan4life52 …

    If you understood the issues and the history of this labor dispute, you’d articulate the issues instead of making silly comments about the owners negotiating like grownups and the players walking out like children. That’s not the history of what occurred.

    @eagleswin …

    When I said most people babbling about idiot players and their idiot issues have no idea what the issues are, I wasn’t referring to rational pro-owner commenters. I was referring specifically to people who ignore the issues but simply bash and ridicule players. It’s inappropriate and indicates they have personal problems with athletes that have nothing to do with this labor discussion.

    Your perception that the players never counteroffered is inaccurate–as has been explained to you countless times. These negotiations went on for months and included numerous player offers/counteroffers. You’ve also been informed about management waiting until the lockout deadline was looming to present their package, giving the players no time to act without risking losing their ability to prevent a lockout.

    The Tea Party is proudly and vocally anti-union, and Tea Party governors are actively working to abolish the collective-bargaining rights of government employees in several states. Since when is it an act of “hate” to accurately represent the political viewpoint of a political party? That statement is completely irrational. I didn’t “slip” anything into the discussion. I made a straightforward statement.

    Many conservatives support the Tea Party. The Tea Party is anti-union. So of course, those football fans who are Tea Party members would be vocally opposed to the players. That was a simple declaration of fact, not an invitation to debate the value of unions in society, which I’m not going to do.

    Strikes, lockouts, suits, and countersuits (which the NFL also vigorously employs) all are strategies commonly used by players in this kind of chess game. It’s pointless to say lockouts are okay but suits are immoral or vice versa.

  95. @Deb

    well let’s see i was talking about who i support and who i blame for the lockout. and the players were the ones who didn’t make a counter offer to the owners last and very reasonable offer and then walked away. do i know the issues and what’s going on. yeah sure. the owners originally asked for $1 billion and they knocked it down to $300 million. They agreed on a rookie wage scale, shorter otas, less contact in practice, giving more money to retired players, making rules that help to prevent concussions, and just about everything else the players wanted and in return the players have offered nothing in return. i’ve been following the possibility of a lockout for the past couple of years. i know the issues. and i have no problem with the players. i have a problem with the players union. oh i’m sorry they’re not a union any more, even though they still operate as one.

    oh and get your facts right. the owners proposed their final offer an hour before the deadline, but the union told them that they had already ‘decertified’ and didn’t even bother reading the last offer. instead they demanded 10 years worth of information that would do nothing to help the negotiations. but regardless of what side you support or agree with they’re all greedy and childish for not getting this worked out. but I’m going to tend to side with the guys who act professional and try to reach an agreement like businessmen, instead of the ones who act like children.

    and while i do support the owners over the players, I do not support the Tea Party.

  96. Owners have the majority of the public support for the simple fact that owners are out of the spotlight. The public has a hard time feeling sorry for players as they are always in the spotlight for negative press. Child support, rape, shootings, drugs, holding out for more money (v.Jackson) or just taking money and sucking (J.Russell). At the end of the day its the owner who is responsible for everything, and if the players can not accept the rules and terms then they should seek other employment like the rest of us do, i mean the NFL is not the only game in town, they can go to canada, areana or what ever that new league is. Nobody is making them enter the draft or play in the NFL they choose to.

  97. @ravensfan4life52 …

    See what you can do if you try 😉

    It’s impossible to tell what people know about the issues when all they do is call players idiots. If you follow everything that closely, you know as well as I do that a lot of people posting here just seem to have player envy. And I didn’t say everyone who supports the owners supports the Tea Party. I know a lot of pro-owner people who definitely don’t. Was just saying that people who are politically anti-union would automatically be opposed to the players.

    Actually, the owners delivered their final proposal at 12:30 pm. that Friday, the decertification deadline was midnight, and the players decertified at 5 pm. Your also mistaken about the owners dropping their $1 billion demand to $300 million in that proposal. The rookie wage scale was still in dispute because of the length of the contract. While the players agreed to a rookie cap, the owners wanted to lengthen the rookie contract to, I believe, six years. That means players would have to wait longer to become free agents and would be capped at lower salaries into their prime earning years.

    Those are just a few of the issues that still needed to be worked out. I support the players, but am not happy with the way the NFLPA leadership has handled this since March. And I’m not sure the rank and file fully understood or supported their legal strategy. I just get frustrated by all the sympathy directed toward the owners. These are billionaire businessmen and nobody’s fools, not poor little shop owners being bullied by a big bad union. And I hate the way “fans” spew so much hate at the players who entertain us. It’s evil, and I’m glad you don’t feel that way.

  98. @jdingo44 …

    Of the 1700 active players in the league only a small percentage are involved in criminal or other inappropriate activity–and some of those accused of crimes are actually innocent but have been targeted by people trying to make a buck off their names. The rest simply do their jobs, mind their own business, and go home to their families. If you look at any organization with 1700 workers, you’ll find at least the same percentage of substance abusers, people involved in domestic disputes, people growing pot in their bathtubs … whatever. The difference is that no one is writing a blog about them so guys like you can tell everyone that all are dirtbags because of the behavior of a few.

    And if you and guys who post similar comments don’t think some of the owners and their family members are abusing substances and involved in kinky sex situations and screwing people in underhanded business deals, it’s amazing you haven’t all drowned in the massive amount of wetness coming from behind your ears.

  99. Actually Joe Haden is right. The only poll I’ve seen on the topic shows that people support the players over the owners by a two to one margin. It’s not even close.

  100. the fans don’t give a flying F### about either side.. we just want to watch football.. I really hope i can get over the sick feeling i get when i hear about this crap, and watch my Vikings!!!

  101. 325K, nope not the number of fans that side with the players, thats the minimum number of dollars a rookie can earn in a year. MINIMUM!!! and that number goes up for each year of experience… Most americans could actually WORK for 10 years and make that much…. These guys get to PLAY a game and make that much in a maximum of 6 months. My man AP said it best, these poor fellows are being enslaved for millions of dollars.

  102. Haden, if you want an agreement, sign the new CBA. Stop blaming the owners because your trade association fought against the reality of sports economics, a reality that left the owners no other choice but to do what they did. You’;re not going to lose a dime with a new CBA.

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