An early look at the draft stock of Robert Griffin III


Robert Griffin III will graduate from Baylor with a 3.67 GPA. He just won the Heisman Trophy and his NFL stock will never be higher.

Griffin has another year of eligibility, but there’s little reason to think he’ll return to school. So what will his draft stock look like? Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News, one of the foremost draft analysts, thinks Griffin will be a top-ten pick.

“[NFL scouts] are looking at what Tim Tebow and Cam Newton are doing, this is a better version of Cam Newton and Tim Tebow,” Gosselin says.

It’s very early in the process, but top-ten may be conservative. There are at least some analysts that think Griffin is a better prospect than Andrew Luck, so he already sounds like a decent bet for the top-five.  Griffin seems like a kid that will only impress teams more the more they talk to him.

ESPN’s Jon Gruden couldn’t contain his excitement over RGIII during Monday’s telecast. Gruden indicated that the Rams, for instance, should look very hard at Griffin despite the presence of Sam Bradford on the roster.

We suspect there will be enough people that agree with Gruden to inspire a lot of Luck vs. Griffin debates next year.

88 responses to “An early look at the draft stock of Robert Griffin III

  1. Lord knows if it’s one thing Gruden is an expert at, it’s analyzing and developing a Quarterback.

    I mean look at the list of top notch signal callers he drafted and developed from his years in Oakland and Tampa Bay.

    Oh wait a sec…

  2. I don’t think teams will be more impressed the more they talk to him. He comes off as a dick head in interviews. Somewhat “Newtonian”, but with a thin layer of politically correct varnish covering his meglomania.

  3. Sure the Rams ought to look at putting RG3 on the roster.

    At $22 million guaranteed for 4-5 years he’s a bargain compared to Bradford.

    But it makes no sense to have both. The Rams have gaping holes all over, and can’t afford to have 2 franchise QBs.

  4. If Bradford had Cam Newton’s contract you have to wonder if they would take a look at Griffin, but he doesn’t. He has Tom Brady’s contract so they are pretty much stuck with him.

  5. Since he is a “black athletic quarterback” I see teams wanting to convert him into a wide receiver or return man. Because we all know teams won’t custom fit their offense to fit his skill set like Tebow.

  6. Gruden saying that line made me shake my head, it’s not Bradford’s sucks, he just doesnt have alot around him, plus he had no healthy line this year and his WRs didnt play great.

  7. Looks like 3 QBs in the top 5…Cleveland, Washington, Miami will be positioning themselves for these picks.

    Can’t imagine, Carolina, st. Louis, Tampa bay, Minnesota, will be looking at QBs.

    Will be a VERY interesting first round for NFL draft.

  8. Can you mention one college QB that Gruden doesn’t like.

    “This guy (insert name here) has a bright future.”

    I would draft him rather early but he would need to be willing to play multiple positions. I would pitch to him, throw to him and maybe develop him as a qb if he could improve technique.

  9. Griffin’s awesome, but he’s not a better prospect than Luck. Any “debates” between the two are nothing but the products of anonymous NFL personnel men trying to game the 24 hour media cycle.

    RGIII is the clear number 2 QB, and nothing’s going to change that. Not such a bad place to be, really.

  10. RGIII has loads of talent, but has similar flaws to a running QB despite not actually being a zone-read QB. Bad Mechanics, breakdowns in footwork, misses easy throws because of it, etc.

    His system doesn’t challenge the interior of the defense like he will have to in the NFL. He’s an outstanding deep ball thrower (just ask Oklahoma), but a lot of his throws are screens (which is why he has such a high completion percentage). I’ve watched a couple of Baylor’s games and in most of them the intermediate game goes out the window in crunch time.

    His speed won’t be effective in the NFL (despite the fact that he has world class track speed) because he’s a long strider. He’s faster than a lot of guys who we call fast, but he can’t change direction at game speed because of how he runs. Mike Vick could cut and break ankles at around the same speed and Cam Newton is slower but has way way way more agility. He’s going to have to rely on his (very talented) arm in the NFL to win games.

    RGIII will impress people throughout the pre-draft process (smart, hard working, great talent, etc) and will fly up boards. Andrew Luck will go before him in all likelihood, but RGIII will be the second QB (especially if Barkley doesn’t declare).

    After Cam Newton, it’s really hard to argue that the game film says he won’t succeed in the NFL.

  11. Darnit! I can’t believe people are just waking up to this guy. Darn Heisman. Had him on my Skins wish list since he started the year with MORE td’s than incompletions. And he didn’t just dink his way to a 72% completion rate either. He makes too much sense for Danny Boy Snyder to take.

  12. Robert Griffin 3rd book smarts,winner,strong arm ,accuracy,fast runner andrew luck to colts and robert griffin to, i see some teams without qbs trading up to get him,minn and rams have qbs so they dont another one ,Trades will happen fairly early in 2012 draft

  13. If I were Indy and a team in the top 4 wanted Luck I would swap picks, rape them, then take the better QB RGIII.

    Luck will be Tim Couch or at best Carson Palmer. So overrated.
    He won’t even be Eli much less Peyton.

  14. A bit of a stretch to call him a better prospect than the guy who is currently rewriting the record book for rookie QBs in the NFL.

  15. Using Gruden as a benchmark for player evaluation is like using a trophy to indicate your kid is good at peewee sports (everybody gets a trophy now).

  16. Chucky hasn’t done sh*t. He took a TB team that was on the verge of a superbowl when Dungy couldn’t take ’em over the top. I guess if Dungy had Peyton manning he coulda. Tells you alot about Dungy too.

  17. How is the kid better than Newton. When everyone and their mamas said Newton would flop? These college scouts are a joke, every year they fail epically and then the next year rolls around, and all of a sudden they’re experts again.

    Seeing as how Newton is having the best rookie QB season in NFL history, I surely doubt RG3 will come within a fraction of what Cam has already done.

    Enough with the hype already.

  18. I am sure that wherever he goes Mel Kiper will be wrong and then complain for the next 5 years (see Brady Quinn)

  19. RG III, RG3, Robert Griffin The Third, RG Three, Robert Griffin 3, Robert Griffin III. Couldn’t think of anymore.

  20. Redskins. We need someone who can run for their life if needed. Our O Line stinks. Even more so if Trent Williams decides again that smoking weed is more important than playing in the NFL.

  21. Whoever wants him better finish the year worse than the Skins because there’s no way this guy is dropping past them, anyone who thinks differently I submit to you exhibit A – Rex Grossman. Right now they’re 4th based on strength of schedule and the Vikings and Rams aren’t taking a QB. The browns could trade up with their extra 1st, and the dolphins may be desperate enough to give up future picks for him, but he’s definetly going top 5. Should be a really entertaining draft with all these talented prospects slated to come out.

  22. This guy is the best thing that could ever happen to the Washington Redskins.

    Which means they’ll not even consider drafting him, because why break character?

  23. Andrew Luck, Terrelle Pryor, and Blaine Gabbert were all rated substantially ahead of Griffin coming out of high school at the same time, and competing with each other at the same recruiting camps. Gabbert and Pryor both beat him to the NFL. Matt Barkley was at some of those same camps as well, though he is a year younger. He was considered the best prospect of the group. Griffin is hugely overrated, and wouldn’t be a top pick, except for Newton’s early success. But we have to wait to see if that holds up. I don’t think it will.

  24. Dude reminds me of Vick, only, with greater accuracy and a stronger family background. Very high ceiling for this kid. Top five is almost a lock.

  25. I reaaly want RGIII for the Dolphins…but what Cam has done as a Rookie will be hard to beat + Cam is taller with more muscle which equals durability.

    RGIII’s size may make it a little tougher in the NFL…but I still think he’ll be a GREAT QB!

  26. Oh man wasn’t there this same kind of debate the last time the Colts had the number one pick!

    So I guess one will be a HOF QB and the other will be a bust LOL

  27. I’d rather have Barkley than RG3 but I’d rather have RG3 than Christian Ponder… but alas, I’ll be stuck with Ponder…



  28. ok, save this three years from now we will compare the over all # 1 pick Luck, with this 2nd rounder. I’ll put my money on Luck.

  29. fittytuckin says: Dec 13, 2011 1:41 PM

    “Since he is a “black athletic quarterback” I see teams wanting to convert him into a wide receiver or return man. Because we all know teams won’t custom fit their offense to fit his skill set like Tebow.”

    The NFL is about winning and $. Teams don’t care if youre white, black, green or purple. Drop the racial crap for once.

    You dont hear criticism of TJax, Vick, and other running QB’s, yet Tebow gets crucified.

  30. descendency:

    It is curious. The vast majority of the folks that I read – including NFL scout types – say that Griffin III has great mechanics, as good as any QB prospect that doesn’t play in a pro-style offense. A small minority claims that his mechanics are bad. Which group should I listen to?

    And how can the NCAA record holder miss easy throws? And are the breakdowns in footwork due to blitzes and pressure? Baylor doesn’t exactly have many future NFL linemen (or TEs or FBs) in pass protection. As far as the lack of an intermediate game goes … my goodness, what college offense does except for the pro-style schemes that Stanford, USC and maybe 5 other teams run? He is a college QB playing in a scheme designed to succeed on the college level, not in some NFL minor league system.

    Dude, even Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning had warts in their game. If you want to talk about happy feet and poor mechanics when pressured … did you see Manning at Tennessee? The question is whether he has the ability to learn an NFL offense and respond to good NFL position coaching. I’d say that when compared to the other spread offense QBs (a group that includes Sam Bradford and Drew Brees) Griffin III is a very good prospect.

  31. Cut the Mularkey and draft Barkley. The Jaguars can Slack for Blackmon, and the Dolphins are so inept they will Shill for Khalil (OT)

  32. I hope the Dolphins get him and Cowher.But with that said if Sparano would have had Matt Moore instead of captain check down Henne the last 2 years the Dolphins would be headed to the playoffs and Sparano would still have his job.

  33. St Louis: Draft RG III

    To Redskins: Bradford + picks
    that wouldnt be the trade. if the Rams are STUPID enough to trade away their young QB, it will be Bradford to the Redskins and the Rams would get a 2nd round pick and possibly another 2nd round pick, i personally wouldnt do that though if i were the Rams, i would get a WR or OT. for the Redskins, i dont think RG3 fits Shanahan’s system, get Barkley.

  34. RGIII and Big 12 fans won’t like what I’m about to say but, has anyone looked into what kind of defense is played in the Big 12?…

    …I did…but not until after watching video of RGIII and noticing how wide open his receivers seemed to be. I looked up some defensive stats, particularly pass defense stats. What I was seeing on video was exactly what was shown by the NCAA stats…the Big 12 is the worst conference in football when it came to pass defense.

    Now I don’t know how much that should figure into any NFL team’s analysis of the any of the 4 Big 12 QBs listed on draft boards, but it might be something to consider when examining the inflated statistics RGIII and other QBs from the Big 12 racked up.

    Individual QB workouts might take on more significance for teams considering RGIII or any of the other Big 12 QBs.

  35. Luck has to go first, lest, all you expert types will have to admit you know little about evaluating the QB position. Here we are again, listening to the very people who are always wrong. Andrew will be OK, but RGIII has start potential and it has nothing to do with Cam Newton. Cam and RGIII could not be more different. Both have strong arms and can run, but that’s it. RGII has straight line speed, while Cam can make you miss. RGIII throws the best long ball in the nation, but I would not trust him running, despite the fact, he’s fast.

    Andrew cannot live up to the hype. He is a good QB among 5 or 6 on or above his level. He dinks and dunks, but the velocity is not there on his ball. Look for sacks and check-downs.

  36. Hey, don’t get ahead of yourselves. Everyone making this guy out to be the greatest thing since whole wheat bread and already measuring him for a bust on Easter Island.

  37. You already screwed up suck for luck, dolphins! Don’t screw up this one as well!

    Lay a turd for Griffin the third!!

  38. earthtopft says RG3’s a dickhead, then later says that he’s overrated and that he’s only being considered this year because of Newton. Also believes Newton’s success won’t keep up. I’m pretty sure he even implied that Gabbert and Pryor were better than RG3.

    What did he do to you to piss you off so much? I’m gonna go ahead and guess you’re a Big 12 fan that can’t get over Baylor beating your usually superior team?

    Listen to the guy talk, he’s well mannered and seems to be smart. Supremely talented and very accurate. Will fit nicely into a structured NFL team because of discipline instilled in him by his military parents.

    There’s no way anyone but Luck is going 1st overall, but given the success of mobile QB’s that look to throw first (newton, and even Big Ben), he’ll go high.

  39. fittytuckin says:
    Dec 13, 2011 1:41 PM
    Since he is a “black athletic quarterback” I see teams wanting to convert him into a wide receiver or return man. Because we all know teams won’t custom fit their offense to fit his skill set like Tebow.

    You mean like they did with Cam Newton? err…..Tavaris Jackson? er……..Josh Freeman? er……Joe Webb? er………Colin Kaepernick?

    Wake up, fool. The day when black QB’s are routinely forced to switch positions are long gone. Sure college QBs that are athletic but can’t make it as a pro style QB are sometimes switched.

    You know, like Matt Jones, Julian Edelman, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch.

    Oh, wait, those guys are all white.

  40. bobby4413 says: Dec 13, 2011 1:35 PM

    Maybe the Fins can keep Suckin for Griffin!

    You do realize that doesn’t rhyme and makes no sense, right? Well, except for the Fins suckin part. That’s accurate.

  41. Gruden gets excited looking at a poster of a quarterback. He is so cheery on his love for every player that they should make a Care Bear of him …

  42. This is why I wish that Limp-Wristed Eagles owner Lurie would fire Reid and hire Gruden. The idiot-savant head coach resigned Vick for umpteen years at 100 million and he’s way to stupid to draft RGIII. Oh God, why are we so cursed?

  43. The smart thing for the Vikes would be to take the Best QB in the draft, and that’s Matt Barkley. If he’s gone by the third pick, then the next would be to trade that pick and stockpile draft picks, but I really think Barkley is the best QB in the Draft. I would rather them keep Ponder and get some extra picks, then to take Griffen.

  44. Not one NFL personnel guy would take Griffin over Luck. Not one. When it comes to that high of a pick, your career is on the line. No one would bet their career on Griffin over Luck. Neither would I.

    By the way, I have no idea why earthtopft said RG3 is a dick. I have seen him in numerous interviews and don’t get that vibe.

  45. birdsflynorth206 says:
    Dec 13, 2011 3:52 PM
    Although Luck is the most NFL ready, I would take Barkley over Luck or Griffin any day
    Please layoff the crack.

  46. Since he is a “black athletic quarterback” I see teams wanting to convert him into a wide receiver or return man. Because we all know teams won’t custom fit their offense to fit his skill set like Tebow.


    Wrong. I suspect that whichever team ends up with Griffin will have to custom fit their offense to his skill set about as much as the Patriots had to adjust their offense to fit Brady’s skill set. If I were a betting man, I’d bet even up that he goes in the top 3 and I’d take 3-1 odds that he’s the number 1 overall pick.

  47. If RGIII doesn’t make it in the league, then he has a great future as a broadcaster. The guy is very well spoken.

  48. Hes gonna be good. He said little better than newton cause he is a more accurate passer. and as a bucs fan im not sure what to think with us if he is on the board cause i have seen reports they might not pass him…..

  49. slick3 says: Dec 13, 2011 4:11 PM

    This is why I wish that Limp-Wristed Eagles owner Lurie would fire Reid and hire Gruden. The idiot-savant head coach resigned Vick for umpteen years at 100 million and he’s way to stupid to draft RGIII. Oh God, why are we so cursed?

    You’re so right. I can’t wait to trade Vick for a Gruden-groomed QB like Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Chris Simms or Luke McCown.

    Oh, wait.

    If the Eagles hire Jon Gruden, I’ll be convinced that they’ve given up and instead decided to just give the fans what they want. Which is NEVER a good idea.

  50. He said little better than newton cause he is a more accurate passer.
    he might be more accurate, but i rather have Newton, he’s bigger and doesnt have Griffn’s throwing motion which is real similar to Vince Young’s.

  51. A team like Indy hs no business wanting Luck, and a few in the know folks like Phil Simms questions Luck’s ability in the NFL. Regardless, Indy can move that pick, get a ransom for it, and use the 3 or 4 draft picks that they will get to rebuild that team under a new coach. Manning is going to play next year. Besides, why is everyone so giddy about the #1 pick? It’s hit or miss and everyone knows it. Plus, if you do your homework you can snag a Tom Brady with the 199th pick.

  52. savagenation2011 says: Dec 13, 2011 3:02 PM

    The NFL is about winning and $. Teams don’t care if youre white, black, green or purple. Drop the racial crap for once.

    You dont hear criticism of TJax, Vick, and other running QB’s, yet Tebow gets crucified.

    The “racial crap” will cease when elements of it are long gone. Currently, they’re alive in well. For instance, I was watching a game a couple of weeks back with Troy Aikman doing the broadcast. A QB throws the ball behind the WR on a crossing route over the middle. Aikman says that the WR has to help his QB out in that situation and make the catch. No reference made about the ball thrown. Fast forward to a week later, another QB throws a ball behind the WR, on a crossing route over the middle, and Aikman’s all over the QB about how poorly of a thrown ball that was. The former QB was White, the latter was Black. Is it selective scrutiny, or is it racism??? Another example, the critics were all over CJ2K after he signed that extension and finally got his money. Yeah he stunk it up a few games, but now, he’s resembling his old self. After he signed his extension for $59 million, Ryan Fitzpatrick stunk it up the next game, and is still stinking, and you barely here a peep from the critics, until recently. Is it selective scrutiny, or is it racism??? Finally, I’m going back on this one, but when one really thinks about it, it is very relevant considering the Tebow-Mania we’re experiencing. Considering Tebow’s style as a QB, and the fact that he was drafted in the 1st-round, and to think that Charlie Ward wasn’t drafted at all, is insulting to one’s intelligence when you say drop the “racial crap”. Dropping the “racial crap”, is essentially turning a blind eye to reality.

  53. More “racial crap” to ponder:

    Taken from the link above:
    “You look at Buffalo’s decision to extend (QB Ryan) Fitzpatrick. It was kind of like buying a stock. His stock went through the roof, and Buffalo said — I am going to buy it. The next thing you know, the price cuts in half. What happens if the Bills start negotiating now — would they have paid what they did? You never negotiate when a guy has all the leverage.”

    CJ2K had all the leverage in the world after rushing for over 2,00o yards. Yet, was he taken care of?
    Fitzpatrick has three or four great games and he’s given a meal ticket. Go figure…

  54. Colts will take Luck. Can’t see Rams giving up on Bradford at this point. My guess, RGIII won’t get past the Dolphins.

  55. @ inallsincerity

    Wow! That’s your evidence of racial bias? Some leap!

    First of all Aikman is an analyst; he has no power or authority in personnal decisions for any team in the NFL. And that is after all, what the original post was talking about.

    But let’s examine your proof non-the-less.

    Aikman, as well as nearly every other analyst, makes contradictory evaluations on similiar plays constantly. Some in favor of African American players and against white (including QBs). I’ve seen it done with two players of the same skin color. I’ve seen it done with the SAME player in the SAME game! It seems they feel the need to make a comment, so they do, regardless if they just said the opposite only moments before. Hardly select scrutiny or racism.

    Onto the C Johnson/R Fitzpatrick comparison.

    Fitzpatrick didn’t hold out; Johnson did. Ryan wasn’t demanding money; Chris was. RF didn’t do his bidding thru the media; CJ did. This may not seem like a big deal – but it is. When you go public with how good you think you are and have a price your’re insisting on attached, then you better produce or you will justifiably get scritinized. As further proof, compare Johnson’s negotiations to Adrian Peterson’s. Two RBs, both at the top of their craft, both black, both looking for new deals. Production aside, they were viewed very differently during their negotiations. By the way, Johnson’s recent big games have come against teams ranked in the bottom 9 in run defense.

    Regarding the second part of the RF/CJ comparison: The contract leverage was different because of the position the two men play, not the color of their skin. A good QB is viewed as much more valuable in today’s NFL than a RB; and you need one to win. QBs are considered more important; RBs are considered replacable. All of the top teams have at least a very good QB and many don’t have a top-tier RB. Besides, Johnson wasn’t coming off his 2,000 yard season. He was coming off a 1300+ season where he averaged a modest 4.3 per carry.

    Comparing Tebow and Ward doesn’t have it’s merits either. One guy valued Tebow as a first rounder and selected him. He was criticized for it.

    I’ll let Ward’s own agent explain why Ward wasn’t drafted per an SI article:

    There had also been some questions about Ward’s height and arm strength, but the central issue, it seems, was his intentions. “The NFL wanted Charlie to make a commitment to football,” said Ward’s agent, Eugene Parker, after the draft, “but Charlie always said that if a team didn’t take him until after the first round, it wouldn’t be able to sign him.”

    Not seeing any racism there. Now it most assuredly does exist out in the world and probably in some corners of the NFL. But when it comes to the playing field, the NFL sees one color only, and that’s green.

  56. One’s perception is one’s reality…

    @ truthserum4u:

    First of all, Aikman is employed by Fox Sports, which televises NFL games. Secondly, obviously, your perception of Aikman’s analysis differs from mine. In addition, the examples I gave were those that just came to mind, but there are others in Aikman’s position, who make similar comments. I guess you weren’t watching Monday night’s game between the Seahawks and 49ers. During the game, John Gruden suggested that the Rams should draft RG III. Ron Jaworski’s reaction and comments at the mere suggestion of the Rams drafting RG III said it all, he was visibly agitated by the possibility of that happening. Why???
    In regards to the CJ2K and Ryan Fitzpatrick situation. Position should not factor into contract leverage. If you are performing at a level that warrants a pay raise, you should get it regardless of the positon you play. Buffalo took care of Fitzpatrick without his prodding. After CJ2K ran for 2000 yards, he should have been taken care of, as he had obviously outperformed his salary. Forte’ is another example of the aforementioned situation.
    Charlie Ward’s height and arm strength??? Ward was drafted by the Brewers in ’93 and the Yankees in ’94…as a PITCHER. He stood 6’2″, that’s taller than Drew Brees, the same height as Gino Toretta and an inch taller than Danny Wuerffel.
    I’ll end this like I started it: One’s perception is ones reality…

  57. @ inallsincerity

    – The original post was concerning the NFL switching black QBs to another position. Aikman, Gruden, Jaworski and every other analyst have no power in personnel decisions for any team in the NFL.

    – Contradictory statements are constantly made regardless of race.

    – Jaworski was more than likely upset at the suggestions of replacing the #1 over-all pick from just two drafts ago. Why would you replace a young franchise QB who has shown he has the skills to win so soon? Jaws would have been upset if Gruden had said Barkley instead of Griffin.

    – The reality is some positions are more valuable than others. More valuable leads to more leverage.

    – The point of the article excerpt was Ward was passed over entirely in the draft because of his own words; not because of racial overtones you implied.

    – Charlie Ward was measured @ 6 feet even, not his listed 6-2. He was also slight; 190 lbs.

    – The size & shape of the balls in baseball & football are very different. The distance you throw them are also different. The mechanics used to throw them are different. One has nothing to do with the other.

    One’s reality can distort perceptioncausing one to perceive things that aren’t really there. This does an enormous amount of damage to the situations where racism really does exist.

  58. I know what the original post was about. I also know what i commented on. My original comment was made in reference to savagenation2011’s “drop the racial crap…” post. You posted what Ward measured, but not Brees or Toretta. You distinguished the differences in the balls and distances they’re thrown. All that for what??? The fact still remains that racism is still alive and well in today’s NFL. You claim that all they care about in the NFL is winning and dollars. That can’t be true looking at this Thursday night game. The Jaguars cut David Garrard to go with Josh McCown and Blaine Gabbert??? Are you kidding me? It couldn’t be about winning based upon that decision. If it’s about money, why did the Colts waste a few million on Kerry Collins??? It couldn’t be about money based upon that failed acquisition. You want to point out that Aikman is just an analyst and has no say so in any team’s personnel matters. I’m not disputing that at all. However, he is broadcasting to a broad audience and there are certain things he says that can be interpreted wrong and perceived in a particular way. It’s not just Aikman either, there are others. Enough of this, ’cause this is ridiculous. If you want to foolishly believe that the NFL has overcome all of its racial barriers, go right ahead. There are fence-sitters and there are those who turn a blind-eye. You fall somewhere in between, but you’re closer to the latter. Like I said before, the “racial crap” will cease when it doesn’t exist anymore, PERIOD.

  59. What difference does Toretta’s height make, he was a 7th rnd pick? How is his height related to racism in the NFL? If Ward hadn’t made his comment he would have been picked before that. (Still ignoring that fact I see) Brees, regardless of height did not have arm strength issues.

    You made a statement about Ward being a pitcher; implying that meant he had a strong arm for football. I was giving you reasons why that isn’t neccessarily true.

    The cutting of Garrard was a financial decision, the team saved money when it released him. And seeing that shortly after he needed back surgery, perhaps the Jags could see he wasn’t going to help them win.

    What are you talking about with Collins? He got hurt! How could the Colts know that was going to happen?

    If you’re looking for it, you can interpret anything wrong and perceive it in a particular way. You’re examples of proving it as fact so far have been weak at best.

    I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist in the NFL (just look at upper mangement positions). I’m sure it does just about anywhere. I just don’t think it does when it comes to who plays, where they play, how much they play. There’s too much evidence to believe otherwise.

  60. @ truthserum:
    You want to point out Ward’s height, questions about his arm strength, weight, build, etc, sounds to me like your making excuses for teams not drafting him as a QB. Regardless of the fact you wrongly insist that I ignore, I personally think that had a team sat down with Ward, told him that they were going to draft him in the second or third down as a bonafide QB, he may have opted to play football. That didn’t happen and the rest is history. In hindsight, the Garrard situation is easy to explain, NOW. Maybe they knew about his back, maybe they did not. You said and maintain that its all about winning in the NFL. If that’s the case, then the Jags should have been the first to sign Collins, instead of the Colts. He fits the Jag’s offense better than the Colt’s, which was a reach at best. Going all the way back to his Penn State days with Ki-Jana Carter, Collins has always faired well in offenses that had solid running games. Injuries aside, they had to know that! Maybe the Colts signed him because of need and to keep the Jags from signing him, but he surley didn’t fit their scheme. They literally threw away a couple of million dollars. You admit that racism exists, especially in upper management positions. Well, that’s where the important decisions are made, especially when it comes to the draft. I’ll admit, things have gotten better, but there is still a long ways to go. So, I’ll repeat, the “racial crap” will cease when it no longer exists anymore. I don’t have to prove what we both know exists, I’m merely pointing out subtleties of the racism that some like to conveniently ignore.

  61. @ inallsincerity

    I point out Ward’s measurables because that’s what each team evaluates with every prospect. That’s why they measure & weigh everyone and run them thru drills at the combine.

    The problem with having the conversation you suggest with Ward is I think most teams didn’t view him as a legitimate QB prospect, much like the following Heisman Trophy winners: Doug Flutie (11th rnd) Ty Detmer (9th) Gino Torretta (7th) Danny Wuerffle (4th) Chris Weinke (4th) and Jason White (undrafted). The difference is those guys didn’t have the skill set to play any other position, where Ward did. A white Heisman QB comparable to Ward in athleticism would be Eric Crouch, and he was told he would be switching positions. Other white college QBs such as Matt Jones, Julian Edelman & Scott Frost switched positions when they got to the pros.

    Besides, the NFL doesn’t feel the need to entice someone to come play in their league and most certainly weren’t going to start with someone who was a project and had another professional league to fall back on. In any case, it isn’t evident his was a racially motivated situation.

    Who knows with Jacksonville, they’re a mess from top to bottom and they need to figure out where they’re headed and how to get there. Don’t really seem to have a plan right now.

    When I said upper mangement, I wasn’t talking about player personnnel types. I was talking about oppurtunities for placement and advancement for African Americans in the upper echelons of team mangement. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the influence of race when it comes to player decisions.

    I know there have been many great examples of African American pioneers when it comes to playing the QB position, but I’ll tell you, Cam Newton just might be one of the most important. While he was never considered a candidate to move to another position; he was thought to be a work in progress. He had tons of skills but many questioned some of his mechanics, the type of offense he ran in college, his propensity to make a one read and run, his character, his lack of experience, his accuracy and his ability to pick up a pro-style offense quickly and read defenses. Then Newton comes out and almost immediately crushes all of those concerns for the most part. (And despite all of those concerns heading into the draft, Newton despite being black, was still the #1 over-all pick in the draft. Go figure!)

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