Butler, Dawson, Doleman, Kennedy, Martin, Roaf are Hall of Famers


Six new members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame were selected today in Indianapolis: Jack Butler, Dermontti Dawson, Chris Doleman, Cortez Kennedy, Curtis Martin and Willie Roaf.

The 44-member selection committee’s voting process starts with 15 modern-era candidates and two seniors candidates and then eliminates five modern-era candidates at a time until they’re ready to give up-or-down votes to the final five modern-era candidates and the two senior candidates.

The first five nominees eliminated were Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown, Eddie DeBartolo, Kevin Greene and Will Shields. The next five eliminated were Cris Carter, Charles Haley, Bill Parcells, Andre Reed and Aeneas Williams.

That left this list of modern-era finalists: Dawson, Doleman, Kennedy, Martin and Roaf. They all got in. Also selected was Butler, a cornerback with the 1950s Pittsburgh Steelers. The other seniors candidate, former Lions and Redskins guard Dick Stanfel, was voted down.

It’s notable that all three wide receivers up for selection were voted down. It’s been tough for wide receivers to distinguish themselves in recent years as passing numbers continue to explode and dwarf the numbers put up of receivers in years past. It’s also surprising that Shields was among the first five voted down — he seems to have a strong case as one of the best linemen of his era.

But today is less about the men who were voted down than about the men who were voted in. Six great players have been given the highest honor an NFL player can receive.

128 responses to “Butler, Dawson, Doleman, Kennedy, Martin, Roaf are Hall of Famers

  1. No, Parcells/Brown/Carter/Shields/Haley got robbed. All were better and more impactful at their positions than Doleman and Cortez. Congrats to all though.

  2. You just know that right now, somewhere, Cris Carter is crying in bed, punching his pillows screaming IT’S NOT FAIR!!!!.

  3. Cris Carter deserves to be in there. Think of all the highlights. She excelled with average QB’s. I’m happy for Chris Doleman. Congrats #56

  4. I am thrilled to see Curtin Martin get in. Better man than he is a player.

    This is an elite group, so some people will get left out, but it’s a shame that Chris Carter didn’t get in. They say the receivers cancel each other, but CC’s numbers are way better than the others. CC was a true stand out.

  5. Little known fact: The committee was having a tough time deciding, so they called Cris Carter and he forgot to add himself to the top five…

  6. I think they got it wrong. The last five eliminated makes a stronger case. I guess old people have to get in eventually.

  7. Chris carter played for the vikings. The only hall of fame he belongs in is the hall of perpetual losers.

  8. Wow Curtis Martin over the Bus?!?! WOW! I really thought this was gonna be a Steelers Class with Butler, Dawson, and Bettis…o well 2 aint bad… but really… Curtis Martin over Jerome Bettis?!?! Still in shock! In HOF ranking I figured Faulk>Bettis>Martin. Wow …just wow. Dawson in before the back he blocked for… interesting.

  9. Thought Parcells was a lock.

    payback for the skewerings?

    Need the vote list please, anon.?
    Make yourselves useful, eh?
    As far as sportswriters?
    Never get between them and the free buffet.

  10. I always thought Martin was more of a compiler of numbers and never a running back that dominated games.

    I still don’t understand how Haley or Carter didn’t get in. Haley only player in NFL history with 5 rings and he played significant roles on all those teams.

    As for Carter by far one of the best WRs of the 90s an all he did was catch TDs.

    Congrats to those that made it.

  11. It doesn’t look like Carter and Reed would ever get in with the finalists from this year that got selected.

  12. Brown had more Tds rec yds and was a terrific kick returner and reed lasted longer in cuts?? And where’s Flores plunkett and guy oh and branch.. Hall of fame is a biased joke

  13. Parcels and CC are the 2 that should have made it. CC was elected to the all decade team in the 1990’s. How can he not be in the HOF?

    Giants were bad when Parcells took over. He took them to 2 SB wins. Pats sucked when he took over and turned then into SB team.

    If they should have gotten in 2 have to be replaced. I would say Dawson and Kennedy (but those 2 are both HOF worthy, just not over CC and Parcells).


    look at his #s , then look at his QBs

    r u serious?


    im not happy,

    this is ridic!.

    HOF ashamed of urself, bias fools,

    thats why when u play u gotta get the rings,

    so when u get snubbed like haley,

    u go back and shine the rings and laugh.


    they jealous.

  15. If real football men voted, (ex-players, coaches, and front office personnel) instead of the media, Charles Haley with over 100 sacks and FIVE superbowl rings would be in the Hall

  16. Personality shouldn’t matter but it does. Haley was a nut case (read the book Boys Will be Boys) and I bet that hurts his case. That’s the only way that I can justify Doleman over Haley.


  17. Bill Parcells doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame.

    Bill Belichick belongs in there twice. Once for his own career and once for making people think Bill Parcells MIGHT be a Hall of Famer.

    (Seriously, compare Parcells with Belichick on his staff and without and then tell me he deserves consideration).

  18. Letting Curtis Martin walk, and hiring Pete Carroll, were probably the only two bad decisions Robert Kraft ever made as owner of the Pats. Would have been nice to have Martin on those superbowl teams instead of Antowain Smith.

  19. It’s nice to honor the old guys from the 50’s.60’s. But just make it an honor not an induction. More emphasis should be placed on someone current fans may actually remember playing. Same thing for coaches and owners. Ok, they had a good career so honor them but not induct them into the Hall.

    There’s nothing worse than listening to some old codger trying to speak or someone’s kid giving an acceptance speech.

  20. Shields should be in hall already no question he was the best interior lineman in NFL history. It’s sad guys like him and dt have to wait for what should rightfully be there’s.

  21. The HOF rules and procedures are idiotic. My feeling is that if the guy qualifies, he should get in on an up-or-down vote. It shouldn’t be limited to only a certain number of inductees per year.

    Seems like more and more, the clowns who vote have no idea who the past greats are or what they accomplished amongst their peers. They seem to vote on guys based either on today’s standards and stats, the market they played in, or if they won a Super Bowl.

    Put down your Xbox controllers, voters, and look at some game film and read the stat books.

  22. Not that these guys weren’t good players, but I think there are better players still waiting to make the hall. Week class. (the omission of cry baby carter makes up for it though)

  23. Makes no sense. Curtis Martin was a stats compiler who never distinguished himself with a Super Bowl run a la Jerome Bettis. Doleman was one-dimensional. Meanwhile Cris Carter broke all kinds of records except those held by J Rice and was a perfect sideline receiver. Who’s Jack Butler? There’s too much persuasion based on personalities in this voting. They should have more voters and a higher percentage required for induction.

  24. Dre Reed was robbed again! He was second besr wr of his era behind Rice! Irvin admitted it and Rod Woodsonhas said he deserves in!Hands down best corner said REED was hardest wr he covered.NO THUMBS DOWN FACTS ARE FACTS!

  25. Every year all you see is Bengals and Browns players getting in . OWAIT thats all Steelers players LMAO

  26. Hats off to Dawson. A good guy and a total rock on the Steelers’ offensive line throughout the 90’s after Mike Webster. Hopefully Pouncey follows in those footsteps.

  27. I hate Haley but he shld make it over Doleman. I don’t think Kennedy shld hve made it. I put Bettis or Carter in over Kennedy. Sorry Tuna fans, I don’t think he has done enuff to be HOF worthy. Dawson is deserving of the honor. The man totally changed the way the position is played. He set the modern standard for centers.

  28. Congratulations to Curtis Martin. A great man on and off the field. A genuine football player who represents what’s best in professional sports. And an interesting group overall. Two linemen, two defensive players and a tough running back. A real football group.

  29. Congrats to Cortez Kennedy!!! He was Defensive player of the year, played on only one team, never went to a superbowl, and was almost never hurt in 11 years straight.., and played on a team that went 2-14. It’s nice to see that his efforts were recognize by his peers, even tho he was never in the limelight, and was not a household name!!

  30. Brown and Carter not in is a joke. HOF voting is laughable and I don’t even take the HOF seriously.

    I know I’m a Raider homer but that’s 2 Raider WR’s who should be in – Branch and Brown. The fact that Branch is not in is a travesty.

    Look up Swann vs. Branch sometime if you want a laugh.

  31. I don’t know if Cris Carter is a nice guy or not. And I really don’t give a rip. He was the 2nd best receiver after Rice of the modern era. He’s earned it. It should not be a popularity contest.
    Congratulations to this years class.

  32. Butler shld hve been in a long time ago like LeBeau shld hve. I agree Doleman shldnt be in, espc over Haley. Not sure Cortez shld be in either. Dawson shld hve been in a while ago. He was the best at his position for over a decade and he sets the standard that modern centers play today. Centers pulling is common now, but b4 Dawson, no one cld do it. Look at the Steelers rushing totals during his tenure. CC and Bettis hve to get in next year. Reed doesn’t deserve to be in.

  33. Martin was better in the playoffs than Bettis. Bettis may have been a more marginal more of an impact in the regular season. I say this as someone who doesnt like the Jets or NE. I think Hines Ward would actually merit a HOF over Bettis because Ward played WR on a running team and actually was clutch in MANY playoff games. He was probably the most consistent Steelers in all those playoff games. Bettis had maybe 3 or 4 good games?

    Also, Andre Reed played on a passing team. So there is a backlog of receivers who compete in such offenses. I think WRs who blocked a lot in run first offenses should be given some benefit of doubt over someone like Andre Reed who is also worthy, but not great enough to scream injustice. If he gets in, more power to him.

  34. footballprophet says: Feb 4, 2012 6:25 PM

    Curtis Martin?….are you kidding me, who,s next”……Shone Greene

    Did the Wizard ever get back to you on that brain?.

  35. Chris Carter may be a childish immature jack wagon, but he his also the best sideline receiver in history. Even early in his career, when he was high he dominated. Better overall than Reed or Brown. Should be in.

  36. ROAF!!!!!!!

    He should’ve played his entire career as a Saint if it wasn’t for Joe Horn and the clueless FO we had with Haslett and Mueller but oh well. One of the greatest O-Linemen in league history and fitting that Carl Nicks is carrying his number on with us right now.

  37. Reed practically invented the YAC that so many wr do now. Carter and Brown were nice but basic! In 80s and 90s Rice and REED were the highlightd! Honestly Rison was better than Carter and Brown.

  38. Bills only threw the ball 48% of the time during the K-Gun era…..shows you how valuable Reed was as a receiver…..was asked to block 52% of the time. Compared to others, he certainly didn’t get as many “touches”.

    Plus look at his playoff stats. When he retired he was second only to Rice in playoff #s. His candidacy is hurt by Brown and Carter, just like theirs are hurt by him.

  39. Andre Reed caught passes while playing in the worst weather in the league. If he and Carter don’t get in next year than collusion has taken over the voting process.

  40. thefiesty1 says:
    Feb 4, 2012 6:33 PM
    It’s nice to honor the old guys from the 50′s.60′s. But just make it an honor not an induction. More emphasis should be placed on someone current fans may actually remember playing.

    Hey, Fiesty1, I’m ‘current’ fan and I remember those guys playing!

    Just lucky, I guess.

  41. I still remember Curtis Martin’s first game.

    SI did a great piece on it at the time, it was against Cleveland and he was a starting 3rd round pick.

    If it’s online, dig it up.

  42. Good for Roaf

    As a lion fan it makes me hate Chuck Schmidt even more for trading out 5 pick to the Saints for Fat Swilling


    I would have loved WR as a Leo

  43. How the hell is Charles Haley not in the hall of fame?!! He only has 5 superbowl rings. The voters need to get drug tested. Also Chris Carter needs to be in there to, best wr to play the game not named Jerry Rice.

  44. How in the world did DeBartola and Charles Haley not get in? DeBartola changed how NFL teams operated, hell Jones took notes from DeBartola on how to run his Cowboys organization, and Haley was just a force that OL’s and QB’s could not deal with.

  45. I went to Curtis Martin’s first game as a pro, in 1995 Pats vs Browns(aka Ravens) opener. Martin scored the winning TD on a last second dive into the end zone. Little did I know the 3rd round rookie that he’d be in the hall of fame. Congrats to Martin.

  46. @daysend564 I think you underestimate Doleman. He had more career sacks, tackles, INTs, and forced fumbles. He played longer but he did still hold a slight edge over Haley in sacks per game. I think both are HOF players but I would take Doleman over Haley.

    Doleman- 150.5 sacks, 8 interceptions, 44 forced fumbles, 914 tackles during his HOF career in which he played in 232 games

    Haley-100 sacks, 2 interceptions, 26 forced fumbles, 485 tackles during his (what I believe HOF) career in which he played in 169 games

    Haley of course has a big edge in SB rings, though I don’t allow that to judge my basis for the HOF vote. I due consider it when the player is borderline like Haley. Put him in.

  47. Really CC belongs in . Congrats to Dolmen. Im a Vikes fan so regardless of any ahole status Carter belongs in. He was one one of the best and as bad as its been would still be a #1 receiver on a few teams .

  48. I am a huge Redskins fan and for years I was say Art Monk was getting robbed by not getting in now you are telling me that Andre Reed and Chris Carter are not getting in again this a travesty of a whole new degree I do not know what more these two could have done to get in. I thought the hall of fame was based on what they did as individuals and not as a team they should not be denied because of lack of superbowls

  49. This is my opinion. Tim Brown ahead of both C.Carter, and A.Reed. Now I rank the 3.

    1-Tim Brown played in 255 games in his 17 year career. He had 1,094 career receptions for 14,934 total receiving yards. Brown scored 105 career total TDs. He had 19,679 total all purpose yards during his career when you add up his receiving, rushing, and kick and punt returns. He had a 9 year stretch where he had at least 1,000 yards receiving. Had questionable QBs most of his career. Should have been a 1st Ballot HOFer in my opinion.

    2-C.Carter played in 234 games in his 16 year NFL career. He had 1,101 career receptions for 13,899 total receiving yards. Carter scored 130 career total TDs. He had 14,184 career all purpose yards. He had a 8 year stretch where he had at least a 1,000 yards receiving each year. Clearly with T.Brown having a 5,000 plus yardage advantage over Carter it is to me a no contest who was better. Carter should one day be elected to the HOF. Maybe not 1st ballot but some time soon after Brown gets in.

    3-Andre Reed played in 234 games during his 16 year NFL career. He had 951 career receptions for 13,198 total receiving yards. Reed scored 88 career total TDs. He had 13,710 career all purpose yards. He only had 4 seasons over a 1,000 yards and never 2 in a row. I wonder what kind of numbers he would have put up if he played in a dome his whole career instead of out in the cold Buffalo winters. The only reason I put Carter ahead of Reed was the TDs. In fact as an Eagles fan if I could take either player in their prime I think I would take Reed over Carter. Should be in the HOF some day, just not before Brown, or Carter.

  50. Love this hall of fame class!!

    Curtis deserved this more than any other candidate he was always underrated. He avoided the spotlight and did not bring attention to himself. It’s too bad he hurt his knee in his last season or he would have had a shot at the all time rushing record with 3-4 more good years.

    Carter and parcells have to get in next year!

  51. Chris Doleman over Charles Haley??!!!The writers should have watched Haley dominate in every Super Bowl he played in.Curtis Martin was a nice player but not a HOFer.Parcells i believe is just as deserving as Madden.Cris Carter was robbed again…Best hands of our generation!!Surprised that Bettis was not voted in as the NFL and the media love the Steelers.

  52. Martin enshrined while TD won’t get a legit sniff is an absolute crime. The former was fortunate enough to play in the right region, the latter simply dominated…albeit in a fly over state. The HoF is a myth, and literally a media creation.

  53. Curtis Martin is a great man. But during his era, the best running backs were clearly Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, and maybe I’m forgetting another. At best the 3rd best of his generation. Belong in the Hall? Well, he does more than many others in there.

  54. Nothing against Doleman/Martin/C. Kennedy, but they shouldn’t get in before Brown/Carter/Haley.

    They need to figure out a better selection process and start taking care of the older players that have been passed over such as:

    Kramer (GB legend)

    Cliff Branch (revolutionized the game with his pure speed, Darrell Green type longevity AND won three Super Bowls)

    Jim Plunkett (won two Super Bowls)

    Tom Flores (NFL QB, 1st Latino Head Coach AND winning two Super Bowls…That is a heck of a career).

    NFL is riding high right now, but it definitely needs to get its HOF voting fixed ASAP!

  55. You’ve got to be kidding me. Are the voters the moral police or something?
    Curtis Martin over Charles Haley?
    We need fresh blood on the voting committee.

  56. @ fightonjohn5
    Somehow, I knew that once the final results were released, we’d get some Raider fan whining about the Raiders getting hosed because of Plunkett, or Guy, or maybe even Flores. Thanks for giving us the triple play of a couple of guys that don’t deserve to be in the Hall and a punter. Ray Guy was a great punter, but dude, he was still just a punter. it’s not as if the HOF is covered up with punters and they’re just picking on him. As to Plunkett and Flores, well, look at their careers and try to make a case for them, because it’s sure easy to make one against them.

  57. For all the Kennedy haters the guy made 8 pro bowls in 90s matching both Reggie White and Bruce Smith for the most in the 90s by a defensive lineman.
    The others to match that output from their positions were Jerry Rice, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Derrick Thomas. So that’s the kind of dominate career Tez had in Seattle and the reason why he is now in the hall of fame!

  58. Dermontti Dawson!!!!!!! Yesssssss!!!!!! The guy was the BEST center of a generation!!! Offensive linemen are too often overlooked. He should have gone in his first year of eligibility, but at least they’ve finally righted the wrong.

    Don’t want to get into a stats debate, but I love Curtis Martin. Obviously, as a Steelers fan, I’d like to see Bettis make the cut as well as Kevin Greene. Haley deserves it and so does Brown.

    The continued exclusion of Cris Carter is some kind of mass insanity.

  59. Martin over Bettis? I’m not so sure about that one.

    I love Cris Carter getting looked over as much as anyyone, but I thought at least Andre Reed or Tim Brown would have gotten in. Those wideouts get no love.

    And let me tell you. When the old timer came out and announced they narrowed the list down to 10 and would be back later with the top 5, I turned that crap off right then and there. Just give me the names you old codger!

  60. Curtis Martin was a great player. Those acting like his entry is a travesty obviously know nothing.

    Tim Brown still not in is a joke though. He’s better than everyone who made it in with the possible exception of Willie Roaf.

  61. Congrats to DD, Martin, Doleman and Roaf. I’m very pleased with the voting this year with one objection.

    As an unbiased football fan, Martin being elected was completely deserved. He was 10x the running back any of the other eligible ones were. He was also a stellar individual off the field. He did everything extremely well. He wasn’t just some 300 lb lineman toting the rock for 3 yards and a cloud of dust for a dozen years just to pile up stats. He was dominant his entire career.

    My only real qualm is wondering WTF on Kramer still not getting any love? Best eligible player not in the HOF yet!

  62. Can’t really complain about the class as a whole but… You’ve 3 WR’s who deserve to be in, and you can’t even pick one of them? And what about Haley?

  63. Congrats to Tez Kennedy… Well deserved, not many D-Tackles dominated the line like you did, even when your double/triple teamed constantly!

  64. The fact that Curtis Martin and Marshall Faulk got into the Hall of Fame before Roger Craig makes the Hall of Fame a joke.

    Without Craig, the Niners don’t win 3 of their Super Bowls. First player to go 1000-1000. First played to score 3 touchdowns in a SB. Only player to go to the Pro Bowl as a fullback and halfback. This guy was much more deserving than Martin and Faulk and he doesn’t get any consideration.

    Cortez Kennedy was overrated.

  65. I’m a big fan of the NFL, and I haven’t heard of any of these guys. Not to say they don’t deserve it, but I can’t recall seeing or hearing them mentioned on NFL network in all the years of top 10s and other films they do. And all the players I do see on the top 10’s seemed to have been snubbed… again.

  66. @raiderredleg
    Branch (revolutionized the game with his pure speed) Oh really??? I thought that was the guy that was already in the Hall. The one that was in the league 7 years before Branch. The one responsible for teams creating zone defenses to cover him. The guy with the Olympic Gold Medals. The guy who used to carry the title “World’s Fastest Human”.

    Flores (NFL QB, 1st Latino Head Coach AND winning two Super Bowls)
    Well that playing career certainly wasn’t Hall of Fame worthy. As to being Latino; So what? I’m sure that LULAC is proud, but are we going to put in the 1st person of Chinese heritage, too? If you want to put him as a coach, he goes in after Johnson and Seifert who also won Super Bowls, but with overall better winning percentages.

    Ah yes, Jim Plunkett. On the plus side, two Super Bowls.
    On the down side; All Pro teams; Zero. Pro Bowl teams: Zero. Years led the league in passing; Zero and only in the top 5 ONCE. TD to INT ratio; MANY more INTs than TDs including a year where he led the league with 25. Overall winning percentage; .500. Number of years with a winning record during a 15 year career; Four. Career completion percentage; 52%. Plunkett is something like 15,000 yards behind Drew Bledsoe in career yardage and nobody is clamouring for Bledsoe to be put in the Hall.

    He should be happy with a couple of rings because the rest of his career does not equal HOF.

  67. 1bigtex says:
    Feb 4, 2012 10:30 PM

    @ fightonjohn5

    Somehow, I knew that once the final results were released, we’d get some Raider fan whining about the Raiders getting hosed because of Plunkett, or Guy, or maybe even Flores. Thanks for giving us the triple play of a couple of guys that don’t deserve to be in the Hall and a punter. Ray Guy was a great punter, but dude, he was still just a punter. it’s not as if the HOF is covered up with punters and they’re just picking on him. As to Plunkett and Flores, well, look at their careers and try to make a case for them, because it’s sure easy to make one against them


    You will have to admit that Ray Guy does have HOF worth type of career…It comes down to the position he played.

    The other three Raiders have lots of reasons why they should be in the HOF and ONE BIG reason not…AL DAVIS.

    Davis in his later years had passionately spoke on behalf of all them (BTW…No matter what else Davis was, he did care greatly for his former players).

    NO WAY was the establishment ever going to let Davis see any of them in the HoF while he was alive.

    With Davis now dead it will be interesting to see what happens going forward with all three (Don’t think Guy will ever get in). Ditto for Ken Stabler…Will never get in and probably doesn’t deserve to anyway. While a great QB with a SB ring, he didn’t win enough or have a productive enough career.

    Funny thing is…If they had played for another team (think Packers or Steelers) and won multiple Super Bowls (with Branch winning three in 76, 80, 82) to go along with resumes to include the first Wild Card team to win a SB, first Latio NFL Head Coach I think any fan of another NFL franchise would rightfully so want to question their exclusion from the HoF.

    Will all of these arguments change your Raider Hater opinion? Probably not, but just wanted to clarify for the the other non-Raider haters that are fans of the NFL. YES Raider fans are passionate, but even the most level headed/knowledgable NFL fan can see that Branch/Flores/Plunkett deserve to be mentioned as HoF canindates and sadly they are no where in the conversation right now and that is regettable…Really, where would the NFL be today without Al Davis and the Raiders?

    Every good “show” needs a villian and the Raiders are certainly it for the NFL. Now that Davis and Rozelle are dead, lets recognize the key players in that part of NFL history that helped make the game what it is today.

  68. I like the class, but do believe that Haley and at least one of the WR should have gotten in.

    Congrats to Dawson. The guys was Rock solid and changed the way the position was played.

    Great day for Pgh Sports fans. 4 of the 6 inductees have ties to Pgh. Butler and Bettis played for the Steelers. Curtis grew up here and went to Pitt and Dolemen went to Pitt. Doleman followed (2) other HOF’ers at Pitt. Hugh Green and Rickey Jackson.

  69. Shields got hosed!!! That guy was undersized yet never missed a game in 14 years and had absolutely textbook blocking skills. I never ever saw a defensive tackle get the best of him in any of his 231 consecutive starts, he was dominating, and the most cereberal offensive linemen I’ve ever seen.

    These voters are blind; Doleman over Haley? No Cris Carter? No Tim Brown? Yet Cortez Kennedy makes it over these guys?!!…really?

  70. @1bigtex,

    All I am saying is all three (Branch/Plunkett/Flores) have HoF credibility/worthy careers and part of the reason they don’t get more consideration is what team/owner they played for.

    Not going to argue Flores verses Siefert/J. Johnson with you, however I do think it is a big deal to not only be the first minority Head Coach in the NFL, but also to win two Super Bowls (one in which they destroyed one of the best offensive teams in NFL history that was trying to win back to back Super Bowls).

    Perhaps Tom Flores is overshadowed by his owner (Al Davis) and always will be, but doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great coach.

    Anyway…If you aren’t going to accept that my points have some validity, then we will have to agree to disagree.

    Enjoy the Super Bowl.

  71. @raiderredleg
    I find it interesting that you decide to just break out the old “You must be a Raider Hater” defense instead of addressing any of my points. Did Cliff Branch actually revolutionize the game with his speed or was it Bob Hayes as I implied? I think Hayes being in the league seven years prior to Branch kind of swings it Bob’s way.
    Did Tom Flores have a HOF career as a QB? No, he was sub .500? Should being Latino have any bearing on inclusion into the Hall? What? Is Canton now subject to affirmative action guidelines? Did Flores have a winning percentage equal to or greater than George Seiffert or Jimmy Johnson? No, and that’s why I said if you want him in, he’s behind those two guys in line.
    Ray Guy was a great punter. There aren’t any punters in the Hall and only one placekicker. The voters have kind of made it clear that specialists are going to have a hard time getting in. Dale Hellestrae was a great long snapper. Heck, if it wasn’t for the veteran minimum salary, Dale might still be playing. I’m not going to jump up and down just because Helley isn’t in Canton. Let’s not pretend that the voters are passing over Ray Guy to put unworthy candidates in.
    And Jim Plunkett, dude, the guy’s career was a couple of really good years and over a decade of mediocrity. BTW, I was incorrect. Plunkett is almost 19,000 yards behind Bledsoe despite playing one year more than Drew. You can’t overlook 34 more INTs than TDs and a career winning percentage of .500 and call that a Hall of Fame career. In 11 different seasons, Jim Plunkett failed to have a winning record. You can’t put a QB with that record in Canton just because he got lucky twice.

    This has nothing to do with being a “hater”. It has to do with looking at the facts. And the facts are that there are valid reasons why everyone of those guys is not in Canton. They were all passed over for more deserving candidates.

  72. @1bigtex,

    And there are valid reasons why all three could be in the HoF.

    You should have quit while you were ahead…Your last post was pretty weak.

    Plunkett was NOT “lucky”…He may not have the stats you think he needs, but his winning two Super Bowls was a whole lot more than luck. Especially the second Super Bowl as a QUARTERBACK beating a great Redskins team decisively.

    Glad Hayes got past his drug abuse and got in…Deserves to be in, but because he was a great player, NOT because he beat Branch to the league by a few years.

    Agree on Jimmy Johnson having a better HC career than Flores, BUT putting Seifert ahead of Flores on any list is just plain silly. He won a SB with Bill Walsh’s players and couldn’t stand on his own in Carolina.

    Already agreed with you on Ray Guy so not sure why you keeping bringing him up.

    Happy you got to throw in Dale Hellestrae and Drew Bledsoe references, but not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China (or being eligible for the HOF for that matter).

    I am impressed in your knowledge of Dallas Cowboys though…Try branching out a little bit and you will find that there are great NFL players outside of Big D.

  73. Charles Haley & Jerome Bettis deserved to make it. The Bus should have gone in before Curtis Martin. Total crappy tha 5-time SB winner Haley got snubbed. Parcells is overrated. CC should get in.

  74. Congrats to former Viking DE Chris Doleman for making Pro Football Hall of Fame! He’s one of the reasons, during my formative football years, I gravitated to the Vikings to begin with. I guess I also should thank him for 20+ years of heartache and frustration as a result…Hope Chris Carter gets in too someday.

  75. First off, congratulations to all those elected. And allow me to one question.

    What more could Will Shields do?

    14 Seasons
    Missed ONE GAME his entire career
    12 Pro Bowls
    6 time all pro
    NFL Man of the Year-2004

    Things like this are why the NFL hall of fame is viewed as a joke. Here’s the Cal Ripken of NFL guards, and we say ‘eh, make him wait a year.’

  76. No offense, but some have claimed Martin is a “stat compiler.” First of all, the NFL is one the sport where start compiling IMO, is a plus on your record. There are guys like Terrell Davis, or Chris Johnson, or Shaun Alexander, Priest Holmes, who are great RBs but are only great for 3 or 4 seasons. I think the fact that Martin was able to play at a high level through his entire career should be applauded. So he never ran for 2000 yards, who gives. Should Jamal Lewis be in the Hall?

  77. With one significant exception, this is a very good class.

    All the modern-era players are very deserving. It would really have been smart to get a WR voted in, but I can’t see any Fred Dean/Richard Dent level mistakes here. In fact, this follows a common pattern for recent HoF regular candidate votes — add in the first-time no-brainers (there were none this year), elect many of the remaining players who made the cut-down to 10 but not to 5 last time (Dermontti Dawson, William Roaf, Cortez Kennedy, Curtis Martin), and bet a surprise happens (I had thought Kevin Greene might qualify, but it turned out to be a similar player in Chris Doleman).

    Very glad to see Jack Butler get voted in also — again, most deserving.

    The big exception I can see here is Dick Stanfel not being elected. I think there’s no question he was deserving, and as far as I’m concerned he now joins Claude Humphrey as one of the major recent “shame on you” mistakes being made regarding Seniors. This time (and to a reasonable extent last year), the Senior Committee did its job — it was the general voting panel that dropped the ball. I’m becoming more convinced that the current writer’s panel simply isn’t up to the Seniors task and should be replaced by a panel of knowledgeable historians who examine, nominate, and vote players in directly.

  78. @raiderredleg
    The whole point about Hayes has to do with your “Branch revolutionized the game” statement. If you can’t see that it was Bob Hayes’ speed was what “revolutionized the game”, I can recommend a couple of good optometrists.
    As to Bledsoe, dude, the Hall should be about your career. So take a look at Bledsoe career and Plunkett’s. Plunkett comes in a distant second and I don’t believe that Bledsoe belongs in Canton. Like I said, Jim Plunkett had four winning seasons TOTAL out of a 15 year career. When you are really mediocre or worse for 70% of your career, should you be considered an all time great just because you had two good seasons? Of course not!
    If you want to bag on Seiffert’s time in Carolina, then how do you explain Flores’ failures in Seattle? His Seattle record is worse than George’s record with the Panthers.’The Hellestrae reference just points out the problem with specialists. I’m not in favor of putting Steve Trasker in because he was a great gunner or Billy “White Shoes” Johnson in because he was a great return man either. As I said, it’s not as if the voters have passed over Ray Guy to put in someone who is undeserving.

  79. I congratulate all of the 2012 Class of the Pro Football HOF…..but I also lament the exclusion of Charles Haley, Bill Parcells and guys like Kenny Stabler….while Lynn Swann is in the HOF because of 3 catches that NFL Films caught in slo-motion.

    But the real change needs to be found in the voting process. They really have to de-emphasize the media component of the selection group. When a guy like Peter King is at the table with his hatred of teams like the Cowboys and Raiders, his own personal biases and the fact that he’s the mouthpiece for Roger Goodell you realize it’s time to reform the selection group.

    Why not add guys like Steve Sabol, former players, former officials, former coaches and SOME media. Guys like King will work tirelessly to ensure players from the teams he hates (Raiders and Cowboys) never get in (Haley, Stabler, Plunkett).

    King campaigned openly to have Bob Hayes kept from the HOF…..but he really only supports candidates of the Steelers, Giants and Patriots — that is where the problem lies.

    It’s the same issue with John Clayton lobbying to have Cortez Kennedy in the HOF. Good player, but should he get in ahead of Bill Parcells? Will Shields? I doubt it.

    Same for the person who obviously lobbied to put Chris Doleman in ahead of Charles Haley — I’m sure Peter King was hard at work because Haley wore a star on his helmet. While he will admit it isn’t that petty, he’s not telling the truth. Ever since his feud with Emmitt he’s had a hate on for the Cowboys and he’s demonstrated that in his columns and especially his HOF voting.

    Another example of the yellow bias in the HOF voting……do you think Joe Namath would be in the HOF if it weren’t for Doctor Z? (who was an NY Beat Writer) I doubt it.

    So it’s time to reform the voting process and get the media hacks (see: King, Peter) with their yellow personal biases out of there and leave it up to football people and not individuals who aren’t bitter because someone cut ahead of them in a buffet line or didn’t feel like talking one day.

    You may run into the same problems (grudges, biases), but at least you have people who are selecting for the RIGHT reasons.

  80. @ krashie21,

    Holy cow 1bigtex has a fit when I state Jim Plunkett deserves consideration in the HoF…You will give him an aneurysm by saying Stabler belongs in the HoF!

    1bigtex will go on and on about how Drew Bledsoe had better career numbers than Stabler then beat you death with his “Ray Guy doesn’t belong either” stick.

    BTW…Yours is the best post I have ever read about the HoF balloting…Kudos!

  81. @1bigtex,

    This is my third (and final) attempt to respond to your post above. Hopefully the PFT gods will find it in the heart to finally post one of my responses.

    Plunkett and Flores’ HoF arguement goes beyond stats and I fully admit they may never get in.

    However I think using Bledsoe’s career stats to make a comparison to what Plunkett accomplished is comparing apples to oranges. Plunk’s two SB wins had nothing to do with luck as you claim.

    Quarterbacking the first wildcard team to win a Super Bowl win AND beating a defending SB Champion from winning back to back SBs goes WAY beyond “luck”.

    Eli Manning wins two Super Bowls and everyone is ready to do his HoF bust. Plunkett does it twice at age 33 and 36 and is famous as being the ONLY QB to start and win two SBs, being named SB MVP and NOT be in the HoF…In both SBs he threw for a total of 433 yards and four TDs…Luck my @ss.

    Yes his career numbers are not “Bledsoe worthy” in your opinion (whatever that means), but Plunkett also had the distinction of being the first minority to quarterback a team to a Super Bowl victory (like Flores was to HC a SB winner…TWICE) and the first Hispanic to be named Super Bowl MVP.

    As far as using stats…Using your stats logic then the Cliff Branch verses Bob Hayes is no contest for who had a bigger impact in the game.

    Branch has more SB wins, more All-Pro years, more receptions/receiving yards/TDs than Hayes.

    If Bob Hayes and Art Monk are in the Hall of Fame than it will be a travesty if Cliff Branch doesn’t get in.

    Flores may never get in and certainly his time in Seattle hurts a great deal, but NO WAY is George Siefert is higher than him as you claim…That is just plain silly.

    And for the last time can you quit with the Ray Guy doesn’t belong? I agreed with you three posts ago about specialists not getting in the HoF and not sure why you keep directing that “stick” my way throwing out the names of random special teamers from days gone by.

  82. The stats that compare Branch to Hayes depend on which stats you use. Hayes averaged 20 yards a catch for his career. That’s more than Branch averaged. Branch only had one season with more than 20 yards per catch while Hayes had four seasons including one where he averaged a ridiculous 26.4. Hayes also surpassed Branch in average yards per game by almost 25 per cent. Despite playing about 50 games fewer than Branch for his career, Bob Hayes out scored Cliff Branch by a considerable amount. Branch has a good case for inclusion, buthe wasn’t the one who revolutionized the game with his speed.

    Never used the phrase “Bledsoe worthy”, just said that I don’t think a guy can spend 70% of his career being, at best, a mediocre QB, which Plunkett was, and then be added to the list of all time greats based on two seasons of success. Shouldn’t the all time greats be really good at least half of the time?

    I believe that Ken Stabler has a much stronger case for the Hall based on his career, but he will never get in as long as some of the old time writers are around who remember all the stories about Stabler’s connections to gambling.
    I’m sure that Jesse Jackson is glad that you support inclusion into the Hall based on minority standing, although he’s probably disappointed that you haven’t sung the praises of Doug Williams, the first African American QB to win a Super Bowl. Williams career numbers look comparable to Plunkett’s.

    Seems kind of hard to say that Flores was such a great coach in light of that Seattle record of his now doesn’t it?

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