Drew Brees: Saints believe strongly that we’ve been wronged


Drew Brees is happy to be back with the Saints and glad that his offseason ended with a lucrative new contract, but he’s not happy about everything else that went on this offseason.

Specifically, Brees is unhappy about the NFL’s handling of the investigation into the team’s bounty program, and he’s displeased that the Saints will be playing without their suspended head coach Sean Payton this season.

That’s the word from Peter King of Sports Illustrated, who spent an hour or so with Brees at the Saints’ camp. Brees told King that the Saints, both the individual players and the organization as a whole, believe strongly that they have been wronged by the NFL.

According to King, Brees says there’s a difference between paying a player for performing well in a game and paying a bounty for injuring a player, and what the Saints did was the former, not the latter. And Brees says the Saints view the suspensions of their teammates, coaches and General Manager Mickey Loomis as motivation.

That “us against the world” mentality may prove to be much more effective as motivation than the tactics that Gregg Williams employed.

72 responses to “Drew Brees: Saints believe strongly that we’ve been wronged

  1. Ok, now that camp has started, let’s stop talking motivation and bounties and all that nonsense and talk about on the field.

    1. The saints defense made Alex smith look like Arron Rodgers(that’s amazing)
    2. The saints lost the best guard in football to a division rival (Bree’s performance in predicated on that o-line)
    3. The saints have gone the offseason without the head coach
    4. The saints will start the season for 6 games without their current coach
    5. Giants/eagles/cowboys/bears/49rs/Seahawks/falcons all still have much better defenses.

    It’s not the saints against the world. It’s the saints against the team across the field. If they don’t win and win often early. It could spiral out of control

  2. Drew Brees used to be one of my favorite players. Between his constant whining (and at this point, that’s all it is) and his contract issue (which, in my opinion, will hurt his chances of winning another Super Bowl, as the Saints won’t be able to surround him with enough talent) I just can’t stand him anymore. Every time there’s an article about him I just cringe because I know what it’s going to be. I’d have so much more respect for him if he would just zip it, show up, and lead the team. It’s not like they’re going 3-13 because of this. They’re still the favorites in their division, and will likely have a home game, if not a bye, in the playoffs. The coaching staff has taken their punishments like men (save for Vitt’s whining), why can’t the players?

  3. The NFL’s made its point. There are enough legal questions about the suspensions that the NFL should just drop the suspensions, and let the Saints and everyone else just concentrate on playing football.

  4. Saints believe strongly that we’ve been wronged.

    They know they did it, but don’t feel the league did a good enough job of catching them. What exactly did Greg Williams admit again Drew? What did he apologize for again Drew?

  5. And when they fail, he’ll say it’s because of the “drama”…poor little Saints.

  6. “best guard in football”

    I think that is up for debate. His old teammate at RG isn’t bad and there is a guy by the name of Mankins too.

  7. It’s time for Vilma, Brees, Vitt, Payton, and all the Saints to show a little humility and own up to their mistakes on the bounty issues. Then we can all move on.

  8. Gee, Drew…the explanation is your management and coaches started the mess your team is in now. They have accepted their punishment.

    Adapt, don’t cry.

  9. Brees really needs to stop whining. The punishments have already been handed out and the league will not reverse it. So please stop rehashing old wounds and just deal with the punishment. Your team needs you now more than ever…. focus on that instead.

  10. Drew Brees is on executive board of NFLPA – ask him why they rolled over during negotiations when they could have bargained Goodell’s powers? They took the money and now they want to complain how these issues are adjudicated?

  11. Drew Brees needs to shut up. The more he talks the less I respect him. He hasn’t earned the right to complain this much, not a single NFL player has.

    Why doesn’t Drew Brees act the leader we all thought he once was and say he is sorry.

    He hasn’t said sorry once. He is the captain of that them and the leader of that locker room. It’s his team.

    All he has done is drag his feet and kick and scream. Peyton Manning would never do what Brees has done. Tom Brady would never drag this issue into months of endless tweets and interviews and condemnation. Brees has been on an all out assault on the NFL and it’s not the way a high profile NFL star should act. It’s not the way a leader should act.

    The Saints need to be accountable. They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I know Saints fans are pissed. I know the feeling. But the facts are it doesn’t matter how many other teams were doing it, the Saints got CAUGHT. Just like the Patriots got caught. But the Pats never fought the NFL and the Pats took their medicine.

    Robert Kraft took the reigns and should his leadership and took the punishment and his team and this league moved on.

    Mr. Benson needs to step up and stop this. He owes it to the 31 other owners. Take accountability, take your punishment and move on.

    If not, I hope Rodger takes more draft picks away. At this point, the Saints are hurting the integrity of the league beyond just the crime of bounties. This endless media assault needs to end.

  12. “[A]ccording to a source close to [former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg] Williams, the NFL has also misrepresented what Williams said in interviews with the league. According to the source, Williams never admitted a ‘bounty program’ was in place and that the league ‘rephrased his statements to satisfy its needs.’ The source also said Williams never identified any players for their involvement in a pay-for-performance or bounty program.”

    NO coach admitted to a bounty program. 9 Saints have said under oath there was no bounty program..

    Why would they just lay down and take kicks from the NFL when they didn’t do anything? How can you people be so dumb?

  13. 1.) that saints defense signed the best two ILB and the best DT on the FA market, and have a new DC who happens to be one of the best in the league. Btw, the 9ers had about 100 yds of offense after 3Q of that game before Gregg williams starting playing man to man on Davis.

    2.) The saints replaced that guard with Ben Grubbs, pro bowler from the Ravens, and still have the best guard tandem in football.

    3.). The Saints have one of the best coaching staffs on the NFL – Spags, Charmichael, & Kromer have all interviewed for/have been HC in the last few years – and paytons program has been in place for 6 years. Barry flippin Switzer took over the cowboys after JJ and Ron a super bowl for christs sake. Talent wins.

    4.). Hes out 6 games. Who isn’t? Brees, Colston, Ingram, Graham, Sproles, moore, etc.

    5.) how do you know those teams will be better? Robinson/Greer have been great in camp so far, there are 4 1st round picks on the DL, they added two new starters at LB, added depth on the dline & @ LB, Harper/Jenkins ate a talented young safety combo who will actually play some zone under Spags , and there is a completely new scheme under a great DC.

    Sleep on the team w the best QB statistically over the last 6 years, an offense that set every record possible last season and brings every player back, that went 13-3 and were a tiebreaker away from hosting SF in that div game, 63 reg season wins, 3 div titles, 4 playoff appearances – 2 NFCCG & a SB over 6 seasons. Pick Carolina or Atlanta like everyone else. Don’t be butt hurt when they Win the division again though.

  14. Besides ridiculously playing with semantics and technicalities in attempting to minimize clear and unambigous violations desrving punishment, what Brees, the Saints and their fans fail to see is that this isn’t just one thing. Sure the bounty deal is the worst of it, but don’t forget the improper vicodin use, refusing to follow NFL attendance/timing requirements at the Superbowl, internal shenannigans with Benson’s daughter, wiretapping allegations, and on and on. Perhaps Brees and his teammates should be surprised that they weren’t “wonged” by the NFL more.

  15. Saints will win the NFC South and are a very strong contender for the Super Bowl.

    Nine Saints players have testified under oath in person in Federal District Court or by affidavit that Goodell’s version of what he said happened in New Orleans is not true. Goodell relied on the handwritten notes of a former Saints employee who was fired by the team because he failed to show up for work and went “missing” twice during the season, with one of those times just before the Super Bowl.

    Roger Goodell accused the Saints of doing something they did not do. He punished the Saints for something they didn’t do.

    For all of the people who think the Saints will crash and burn, I hope your team is not lined up in front of them.

  16. Wow on one hand if the players don’t say loudly enough they didn’t do any thing wrong then the comments on here are they must be quilty; if they do say they didn’t do anything wrong the comments say to shut up and take your punishment and quit whining. Brees wasn’t accused of doing anything wrong yet he’s criticized for standing up for his teammates and his coaches. So when Goddell is going after your team (and he will) and the evidence is iffy- what do you want your QB to do??

  17. Drew Brees: Saints believe strongly that we’ve been wronged
    The Saints weren’t wronged. They were just wrong. What gets lost in this debate is that whether they were paid for injuring a player or not, it’s still wrong. It’s a violation of the salary cap provision. More importantly, unless I’m totally misinformed on the ethics of these guys concerning reporting income. it’s also income tax evasion. A Federal crime. So quit whining, Brees and company. You’re all Federal criminals.

  18. Not sure how the players wanting to see the evidence used against them hurts the integrity of the game. False evidence hurts the integrity of the NFL. The veracity of the evidence is the most important thing. The commissioner has an obligation under Federal labor law to ensure a fair and unbiased process. When the evidence against any player whether it be a Saint or any other team is hidden or otherwise suspect the process is no longer fair and the player is at a disadvantage. People believe what they hear on TV and seldom bother to look any further to see if the facts support what some TV host repeated.

  19. Drew makes a good point. Public outrage was fabricated by an accusation that there was a pay-to-injure-bounty-system that occurred in every game for three seasons. But yet, there’s still not clear proof that it happened in just one game. Based upon what you’ve seen, is there any way that the Saints deserve to have their head coach and players suspended for a year, lose draft picks, and be fined half a million dollars? Of course, the fans of other teams support Goodell to weaken the Saints, but they know it’s not fair.

  20. mjkelly77 says: Jul 29, 2012 7:15 PM

    “…It’s a violation of the salary cap provision.”


    The NFL specifically said it WAS NOT a salary cap violation. You can’t have it both ways, believe the NFL and its “investigation” but not the conclusion that is was not a salary cap violation.

    The FACTS here are that the NFL accused and punished the Saints of running a three year pay for injury “bounty” program. The FACTS are that the Saints, as many other teams have done, had a very minor pay for performance program. They were told to stop a “bounty” program, which they did not have, and are the only team in NFL history to be punished for a pay for performance program.

  21. As a Purdue fan who used to root for Brees, I think New Orleans ex-Mayor Ray Nagan showed the way to the Saints, Saints fans and the residents of New Orleans that the easiest thing to do is play the “Victim” card rather than accept any responsibility for what they have done or not done.

  22. Lots of jealousy and wishful thinking in here.

    Last in the division? I heard that crap before last season too.

    The fact is that the Saints’ offense is just as strong as last year and the D will be improved.

    Deal with it.

  23. This may or may not get read seeing as how it will be at the bottom of the list, but a couple of things:

    1) will the media please move on from bounty-gate? We, the fans, are tired of hearing about it.

    2) The Saints have a valid point about being wronged, especially since Goodell’s punishment was likely more to send a message to other teams that he’s not to be effed with or lied to.

    3) the Saints will finish with a 12-4 record. Just b/c Payton isn’t there doesn’t mean the boat will sink. Such reasoning is illogical, especially since the assistant Coaches and returning players know how he thinks and runs things. Brees is a coach on the field, and Pete Carmicheal, Jr. called the plays on Offense last year. Where’s the drop off? Spags? The guy who’s defense stopped NE from being the first modern era team from going undefeated? Riiiight…

    4) If you have a fire that’s burning, meaning a lot of guys who are in their prime and on the backside of their prime, punish them, their coach, their GM, and a few others, all its going to do is make them stick together more and make the fire go white hot. Don’t be surprised if the Saints have some statement games…

    5) Can Chad Johnson have a kid and name him OchoCinco Johnson or something so we can talk about something other than bounties? I’m tired of football “analysts” giving their two-cents about the whole situation and predicting doom. Especially the talking heads. Watch the film and actually look at the work as a whole…the Saints will be fine.

  24. How do you think Saints* fans would react if first game of the season a defensive player laid a late and flagrant hit on Brees that knocked him out for the season??? We all know Brees would want an explanation from the league and Vilma would want proof that the defensive player wasn’t paid for the hit.

  25. What’s Brees complaining about.

    The NFL team owners; (including Saints owner Tom Benson); voted in favour of upping and extending Goodells’ tenure and deal. Goodell got a huge vote of confidence from the ownership group.

    If Brees has a beef with anyone, then it should be with the same guy who just upped and extended his deal too; Tom Benson.

  26. It looks like a federal judge thinks the players were wronged as well. At Vilma’s hearing, she called the NFL’s case “borderline ridiculous”.

    We’ll find out in a few days. Can’t wait to see the public reaction.

  27. purpleguy says: Jul 29, 2012 6:28 PM

    Sure the bounty deal is the worst of it, but don’t forget the improper vicodin use, refusing to follow NFL attendance/timing requirements at the Superbowl, internal shenannigans with Benson’s daughter, wiretapping allegations, and on and on. Perhaps Brees and his teammates should be surprised that they weren’t “wonged” by the NFL more.
    That’s a great list. Too bad nothing on it has anything whatsoever to do with the reasons the Saints players and coaches were suspended.

    I love how these “pay to injure” charges that people were so convinced three months ago were backed up by iron clad proof are now considered so fungible. “Well, sure there’s no proof of any pay to injure program, but the Saints deserve to be suspended by the NFL anyway because Tom Benson’s granddaughter is a bit too immature, and a disgruntled former employee has made unsubstantiated wiretapping allegations that have not been corroborated by anyone in law enforcement or the NFL.” Give me a break.

  28. Stained fans everywhere. Time to accept that SB trophy is worthless with the asterisk that stains it forever. Get Breezy and company to go earn one the right way, to be more specific, without blantent bounty calls attached to it. Too bad thought cuz dat ST-ain’t happ’n!

  29. urcrap says:Jul 29, 2012 10:08 PM

    Stained fans everywhere. Time to accept that SB trophy is worthless with the asterisk that stains it forever. Get Breezy and company to go earn one the right way, to be more specific, without blantent bounty calls attached to it. Too bad thought cuz dat ST-ain’t happ’n!

    My guess you are a fan of a team with an empty trophy case. Vikings more than likely, although Atlanta is a distinct possibility.

  30. My favorite argument of Saints is “we didn’t knock anybody out of game or injury anybody”. Just because your bounty program didn’t work doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

  31. So many of you bought the NFL’s propaganda campaign when this story first broke and laid anonymous judgement like the arm-chair QBs so many of you are. Now you dare sit here and protect your egos by continuing to hate, because to admit you might have jumped the gun would hurt your self esteem too much. Everytime you mock one of us, everytime you post some ignorant non-factual speculative hate, remember that we’re laughing at you. You look like idiots. Bullies trying their best to get under the skin of some kid they think should be ashamed. But Saints fans are not ashamed. And I am going to enjoy every win so much more this season, knowing each and everyone of you is mad anytime something goes good for us. And knowing your schadenfreude is only poisoning your own soul as you grin at our downfalls. You all are only making this coming season that more interesting for the black and the gold, cause we still have a contending team and we have more skin in the game. More to lose, more to prove. I want you to haaaaate everytime you see us on the news. Let the hate flow, I want you to go to bed angry every Sunday night.

  32. flipx99 says:
    Jul 29, 2012 10:23 PM
    urcrap says:Jul 29, 2012 10:08 PM

    Stained fans everywhere. Time to accept that SB trophy is worthless with the asterisk that stains it forever. Get Breezy and company to go earn one the right way, to be more specific, without blantent bounty calls attached to it. Too bad thought cuz dat ST-ain’t happ’n!

    My guess you are a fan of a team with an empty trophy case. Vikings more than likely, although Atlanta is a distinct possibility.

     2 0 

    Me? Nah. I hate football. I just take interest in stuff like cheating. Love to watch others squirm when they get caught. Like the NO Stains did.

  33. To all of you classless idiot fans who say the Saints should shut up, I wonder where you would be if your team had their head coach, their top assistant coach and general manager suspended. I bet you’d be whining your sorry little behinds off. And don’t you hypocrits tell me that your team didn’t have a pay-for-performance program (and that’s what this was, make no mistake), because you’re lying like a dog. This was a travesty and a sham, and the Saints WILL kick all of your team’s butts this season.

    And don’t even compare this to the travesty at Penn State; there is no comparison.

  34. All you Saints haters pls shut up,Drew is THE BEST QB IN THE NFL PERIOD,and all those teams that were mentioned about having a better defenses yeah right eagles ain’t goin to do nothing and the 40whiners got lucky last year cause no one took them as a threat won’t happen again and the giants WILL have a down year cause just like sf last yr took ppl by surprise so will the redskins this year,well except for the first game this yr,Gueax Saints WhoDat

  35. Just because Goodell made a mess out of this doesn’t mean the Saints are innocent. Even if it wasn’t meant for injuries, knowing the NFL is investigating and has warned you, one would think they’d stop ANY kind of reward system that may draw negative attention. Gregg Williams would not have accepted his penalty that quick if he really was innocent. Not only guilty but also arrogant the Saints are on this one. Other teams do the same? Maybe, maybe not. Saints got caught, that’s just it.

  36. first let me be clear, i am a fins fan for life
    in my humble opinion, the saints haven’t done anything that warrants the suspensions of players /coaches. every team WANTS to eliminate the other teams best player.
    in all the plays that mr. goodell says the saints played dirty, not one had gotten a penalty flag. if it isn’t illegal in the game, how can it be illegal in the eyes of the combitchener.
    i say let the games begin (with all players).

  37. stevenfbrackett says: Jul 29, 2012 5:15 PM

    Did all the Saints players attend Penn State? Because all the folks around there seem to think they are being picked on for no reason, too.
    So glad you brought up the PSU case – the contrast in investigations and reports could not be clearer:

    PSU: 430 witnesses interviewed, 3.5 million emails and thousands of other documents reviewed – more than 50 of which were included as exhibits in the 267 page report made public; report’s chief investigator (former head of FBI) holds news conference to provide evidence and conclusions to the public and answer questions from the press.

    NFL: Not “1” of the supposed “50,000 pages” of testimony or evidence made public, only the NFL’s descriptions of evidence and statements – which either did not stand up to press scrutiny, or were later characterized by those who made the statements as inaccurate (remember the “evidence” against Joe Vitt for offenses he was never accused of or punished for?); report’s chief investigator resigns from NFL for unexplained reasons without ever commenting on investigation; woman who had nothing to do with investigation (former Federal Prosecutor) vouches for quality and conclusions of investigation she had nothing to do with; NFL Commissar tells press he will not provide evidence to the public or press, or even to the accused or their attorneys – everyone just has to take the NFL’s word for it, and accept their punishment.

    If you cannot tell the difference, God bless you.

    Thank God Mike Florio is not as clueless as many others who have such uninformed opinions on this case.

  38. Losing more and more respect for Brees. Too bad none of them are standing up and accepting responsibility for getting caught. Stop whining…you got caught…be accountable!

  39. This guy has taken a page out of the Brett Favre book of public relations this offseason. I dont see Sean Payton making a scene and he was suspended for the year. You just got $40 million guranteed so you should be pretty happy with life.

    All I know is there was no vendetta to purposely screw the Saints. Trying to injure people and take away their livelihood is never acceptable. Those guys have families and have dedicated their lives to play in the NFL. Trying to rob them of that because they wear a different jersey should warrant some punishment.

  40. And to think the patriots got a slap on the wrist for cheating through their superbowl dynasty, and the saints trees get a full blown out of scale investigation they di wat all they did wat the great Defenses of the past did and said big hits that Change the momentum of a game will get u paid. SAD now imagine if they did wat the pats did they would hav got kicked out of the nfl. Buh hell im not gonna complain Cuz thats one less team to worry about in the nfc

  41. All you New Orleans Saints haters if Drew Brees thinks the Saints was railroaded this is his opinion he were there and you haters is still sitting on your butts talking. But when this Judge make her decision then we will know who were in the wrong yes all of this is a motivation that we will use on every team we face so they better be ready to play. We going to show no love we has a point to prove to the NFL and the world and the haters to if you people’s think we going to lay down because our head coach Sean Payton is not with us watch the smoke when it settle. We are the team every team better watch we are out for the Super Bowl Championship and going to take it then you haters can go and cry on each other shoulders because we don’t give a cow butt about how you people’s feel we play for our true fans so the showdown is coming. WHODAT’S is back!!

  42. Brees is whining his little self a little too much. But, it is good drama, as people will watch to see Brees get his butt kicked. And, he will.

  43. You’d think that Brees, being on the NFLPA board and all, would understand what is and isnt allowed under the CBA they “fought” for. Pay to injure or pay for performance is a semantics argument, they are the SAME thing. This, along with many other popular arguments by Saints fans, make you look foaming-at-the-mouth insane.

    Gag orders on coaches? Wrong. Vitt has no problem denying the charges, and isn’t being punished for doing so. Also it should be noted that in Hargrove’s declaration co-authored by the NFLPA, he claimed that Vitt and Williams asked him to “play dumb” about the existence of a bounty program in exchange for a starting position. Look it up if you don’t believe me. Maybe Vitt should be thanking his lucky stars that he wasn’t suspended longer for trying to bribe a player. If all of these allegations were false, Sean Payton, who had nothing to do with the system, would be fighting tooth and nail to have his season-long ban lifted. He has more reason than Vilma to fight, yet he stays quiet..this should tell you something.

    “Wheres the evidence?” Alot of it hasn’t been made public. “Why?” you ask? because if it were, there would be retribution called for the “snitches”. A whistleblower has a legal right to be anonymous, and the NFL is rightfully providing that. Multiple former players of Williams confirmed that he ran a bounty system before coming to New Orleans. It’s not unreasonable to assume that this continued. Testimony of both former players and coaches/assistants were collected, but again, most of their identities are being kept secret for their safety.

    “The Williams tape was just rhetoric!” Seriously? You’re telling me that telling players to go after a man’s ACL is just a typical coach speech? Going after Frank Gore’s head?(going after the head of any man with a concussion history is dirty.) What planet are you living on?

    If Brees had no knowledge of a system whatsoever, why was he texting and calling Sean Pamphilon trying to see his essay before he released it? Steve Gleason didn’t want the tape released because he didn’t want his celebrity status with the Saints damaged. Brees was only interested in trying to save Payton, and tried to manipulate the timing of the tapes’ release in a way that would help him. There is audio evidence of Brees trying to do this, again, look it up.

    Goodell Conspiracy – This is the one that REALLY makes you guys look nuts. The NFL has no reason whatsoever to fabricate evidence. You do know that the Saints generate money for them, right? So why in the world would you believe they would go out of their way to bully the Saints without some sort of evidence? This would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot. Which is about as intelligent as believing conspiracy theories. 😉

    Punishment is a bitter pill to swallow, but honestly it’s time to stop denying the truth, because acting this way is only making the situation worse. Everyone knows that being caught doing something wrong and lying about it only creates a bigger problem. You need to think about what adverse effects of a system like this has on the safety of not only other teams, but YOUR team as well. I doubt any Saints fan would appreciate their favorite player suffering a career-ending injury just because an opposing linebacker saw $’s. It is fortunate that the Saints did not end anyone’s career under the system, at least none that I know of. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about Peyton Manning, whose neck woes started when he was high-low tackled by the Redskins in the same manner that Brett Favre was by the Saints. His career could be irreparably damaged because of the actions of Williams, and the individuals who participated in his dirty game. It’s time to move on from that dirty system, to accept what happened, pay your dues, and eventually regain the integrity of your franchise.

  44. bearnmind says:
    Jul 29, 2012 7:07 PM
    So when Goddell is going after your team (and he will) and the evidence is iffy- what do you want your QB to do??
    My team’s QB was in that position in 07. What HE did was go out and set the TD pass record and helped lead his team to 16-0. He sure didn’t sit around crying to the media 24/7 about the unfairness of everything, nor did anyone else on my team. And when Goodell called my team’s HC a liar THREE YEARS AFTER THE FACT in print to Peter King you know what BB said publicly? Nothing. But my team’s players and coaches get called ARROGANT because of this while a bunch of people applaud the guys who cry to the media. I call the way my team handled their wrongdoing smart and being men about it.

  45. Fellow Saints fans, unfortunately everyone else has already made up their minds regarding this issue beginning with the moment Roger Goodell announced the sanctions. For whatever reason, they appear to be incapable of grasping the lack of evidence and the obvious fact that the Saints had a pay for performance, not a pay for injury program, in place (as evidenced by the fact that players were FINED INTERNALLY for any personal foul penalties). If the goal was to injure opponents, personal fouls would’ve been encouraged. It’s time to devote our focus elsewhere; i.e., dropping 45 points on all our opponents like we did last year. Who Dat!!

  46. Funny how Patriots fans now seem to think their team was so heroic. Guess why BB did not say anything about being called a liar — that’s right, because he lied.

    Tell me you don’t still believe BB was telling the truth when he said he did not know that his cheating scheme was against the rules.

  47. I wonder what he would be saying if it was lets say the Vikings that did what the Saints did to Favre and the other OB’s. Laying those cheap shots on him and beat him down while someones collecting a few extra bucks for doing it.

  48. God, when is this guy going to stop whining like a little girl? He’s completely ruined his persona in my view.

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