James Harrison says KC tragedy not a gun problem


Steelers linebacker James Harrison has never been afraid to take an unpopular stand.

But the avid gun collector said Wednesday that the fault for last weekend’s murder-suicide in Kansas City was with Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher and not the gun he used to kill his girlfriend and then himself.

“It’s a big issue as far as what happened and everything, it’s a sad story,” Harrison told USA Today’s Jim Corbett. “But the fact of it being part of the guns. . . . They want to say it’s guns and all this other stuff. It’s ridiculous. He did it. And he alone is responsible for it. It has nothing to do with the guns.

“Somebody goes out and kills somebody with a knife, you going to blame the knife? Somebody goes out and kills somebody by pushing somebody in front of a train, you going to start cutting off the guy’s arms? You going to start blaming people’s arms now? It’s the person who did it who is responsible.”

Harrison said he’s long been “fascinated” by guns, and that he owns around 20. He was pictured in Men’s Journal magazine with a pair of handguns across his chest, and insists that individuals need to be able to protect themselves.

“It’s not an athlete thing, it’s a human thing,” Harrison said. “If you go and say, ‘All right, now we’re going to take guns away from everybody, and the only person who is going to have guns are the police.’ . . . if that was a good thing and that’s actually how it would go, then that would work.

“But the two people who are going to have the guns then are the police and the criminals. So now I know I can break into every house in the country that doesn’t have a gun in it because they’re no longer allowed to carry handguns. That’s not going to solve things. It’s only going to cause more problems.”

Harrison’s stance, and taking it today, might not be considered particularly sensitive. And many won’t agree.

But the only Amendment that comes before the Second is the First, giving him the right to his opinion as much as others who have used the tragedy in Kansas City as a chance to win political ground from the other direction.

124 responses to “James Harrison says KC tragedy not a gun problem

  1. It’s difficult to argue his logic.

    Regardless of whether you own a gun or think they should be outlawed, Harrison’s reasoning is accurate.

  2. He’s 100% correct. It’s a shame that standing up for the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution is considered an “unpopular” stand.

  3. As a Canadian, I’ve always assumed that the comparatively lower amount of gun violence up here was attributable to our less permissive gun laws. But, if someone wants to believe it is because we are culturally or morally superior to Americans, I won’t argue.

  4. Actually, guns being present do greatly increase the chances of a spur of the moment murder being committed. Also, there is no evidence to suggest that having a gun actually keeps you any safer.
    Some studies actually show that it increases you’re likelihood of being a victim, but all the ones I have read about usually have some sort of flaw.

    However, if you want to make the argument that civilians should have firearms for purpose of making sure the government never assumes too much power and to maintain the ability to start a revolution if need be, I’m all ears.

  5. “Harrison’s stance, and taking it today, might not be considered particularly sensitive. And many won’t agree.”

    I didn’t find Bob Costas pontificating on the issue of gun control a mere 36 hours after this murder and before we knew ANY of the background/history/problems involving Belcher to be particularly sensitive either.
    First time ever I’ve agreed with James Harrison on any topic. He is right on.

  6. Not taking a stand here politically.

    The problem I see is that it was just too easy to shoot her, and then himself. In a moment of anger, would you pull over to the side of the road and start stabbing someone in a fit of road rage?
    In a moment of intense rage, with a gun in the wrong hand…this just happens too often.

  7. Hey Darin, How will many not agree? Every point he made is valid. Insensitive timing, probably. Sometimes the PFT commentators lack, how should i say it…fortitude. Cool the First Amendment protects our freedom of speech, i never knew that

  8. James Harrison makes THE point in this argument. It’s not the gun; that’s simply a tool. It is human responsibility. Good on you, James. If this is an unpopular opinion, please note that it is the VAST MAJORITY one as well. Of course, not the spineless P/C crowd.

  9. Hell yes. He just went from the bottom, to the top. No wonder he’s been so successful despite a “lack of talent.” He has a brain.

  10. bradyapplaudstheflag says: Dec 5, 2012 6:56 PM

    “As a Canadian, I’ve always assumed that the comparatively lower amount of gun violence up here was attributable to our less permissive gun laws. But, if someone wants to believe it is because we are culturally or morally superior to Americans, I won’t argue.”

    Is Canada even a real country? Most people think of it more like a suburb of Buffalo.

  11. Bob Costas was the one that started this whole debate when he took a halftime show and turned it into an anti-gun political rant. If Harrison is insensitive because he said something today, how much worse was the Costas comment three days ago?

  12. I agree with him that people kill people, guns don’t kill people. But all you have to do is look at the statistics, in England where not even the Police carry guns, they had a whopping 23 people killed by guns last year whereas the US averages over 23 gun deaths per day.

    Having said that, I still say no to gun control because to me all those gun deaths are good for population control.

  13. I totally agree with Harrison on this. All you have to do is look at crime statistics in areas where guns have been banned and you’ll see that crime goes up when you take away people’s guns.

  14. He’s absolutely correct.

    As for the timing, I seem to recall some sportscaster inappropriately using this tragedy and the platform of a football broadcast to call for gun control. That called for a strong and immediate counter-response, regardless of what would otherwise be seen as unfortunate timing.

    Good for you, James.

  15. spartan822 says: Dec 5, 2012 7:08 PM

    I totally agree with Harrison on this. All you have to do is look at crime statistics in areas where guns have been banned and you’ll see that crime goes up when you take away people’s guns.

    Truth. Specifically here in NY where they fudge statistics and don’t report on the news even a fraction of the crimes. We live just like Harrison described; as the only people who can carry are cops and criminals.

  16. What’s up with some of the Canadian trolls commenting on how their country trumps ours due to our perceived lack of gun control?

    Not the time or place for those type of comments. It Makes you look petty and silly.

  17. Its pretty pathetic that many people thunbs down positive stories on here, yet no one thumbs downs support for unregulated gun ownership.

    Pretty disgusting. But expected.

    I’m sure this won’t make it through the administrators.

  18. Our Founding Fathers were brilliant men, no doubt about it. However, I think when one reads the Second Amendment literally, it’s obvious that they intended the people to “bear arms” as an organized militia, not as millions of individuals as is the case today. The genie is out of the bottle, we cannot go back. Yes, people kill people, but it’s much easier to kill someone with a gun. Handguns have only one purpose, and that is to kill another person. I’m a small woman and my survival rate against a baseball strike to my torso would be greater than my survival rate against a bullet in the same location.

  19. marijuana is illegal (in most states) does that keep people from lighting up? if you put laws on gun control then people will still find a way to get them and with our stupid idiotic generation now a days they will probably want to get access to a gun just to defy the law since defiance is the “in” thing now.

  20. Guns don’t kill people. People kill people. Guns make it incredibly easy and expedient for people to kill people. That’s all they do. I ask all of you, would you rather be held up by someone with a gun or with a knife? At least with the knife, you stand a chance. No one’s saying gun control eliminates murder. However, it does make it much more difficult…especially in a spur of the moment case like this. Yes, he could have killed her with his bare hands, but the point is that she stood a greater chance w/o the gun. He kissed her forehead as she lay bleeding. You don’t think he wished he hadn’t shot her? He did something he couldn’t take back in a moment of blind rage. Who amongst us hasn’t? The difference in this situation is the gun.

    Also, not making any light at all of this horrible tragedy, James Harrison should be careful himself. This could be a cautionary tale for him. With all of the possible concussion related side effects and what I would imagine to be a fair amount of natural rage and aggression in his personality (based on the way he plays), he may want to think twice about having guns in his hands at the wrong time. Blackouts, disorientation, fits of rage are all potential side effects of the kind of brain trauma he’s had.

    Before you write me off as a lily-livered, pc, freedom hating liberal, please know that I do believe in the 2nd amendment because people can’t always trust their government. That said, I highly doubt this murderer was part of a “well regulated militia”. The world is very different now than it was when the 2nd amendment was written. Gun control doesn’t mean gun abolishment. I wouldn’t trust most people on the street with my laundry, why should we all be forced to possibly trust them with a gun?
    Gun owners that I respect know that gun ownership is a solemn responsibility. When I was taught to hunt and handle a fire arm, I was put through 2 safety classes, plus my grandfather gave me his lecture series. It was serious business.

    I guess what I and Whitlock and Costas are trying to say is, that while certain gun rights are a part of the fabric of this country, a gun culture that approaches guns casually…like fashion accessories or status symbols are incredibly dangerous. So, after every terrible story of gun violence comes out nearly every day, we can just keep repeating over and over, “now’s not the time to talk about gun control” “it wasn’t the gun’s fault”. As if the Aurora killer could have over taken a theater with a knife…or even a non semi-automatic for that matter.

    So, to those stable, sane, responsible gun owners out there…I don’t want your gun. I want to make it harder for any yahoo walking down the street to get semi-automatic firearms. If that makes me unamerican or weak or socialist or whatever, so be it. It might also make a few of the 1,000’s of innocent victims of gun violence safer. Just my 2 cents.

    My thoughts and prayers go out the child. Hopefully, there’s a presence of love and support for him in his family. Thank goodness he’s young enough not to remember it at least. How terrible

  21. Ban the use of arms!

    Better yet, Harrison himself has hurt players by using his head as a weapon. Ban heads!

  22. We should stick to football on this site, and stay away from politics…..I’ve said that before, and even though I agree with Harrison and could talk guns and gun law all day long, this isn’t the forum for it, really. But I agree with him.

  23. “Steelers linebacker James Harrison has never been afraid to take an unpopular stand.”

    I suspect that one of the few places this stand is “unpopular” is at NBC. Harrison looks way smarter than Costas here.

  24. Way to remain objective there Darin. Many won’t agree and his position is unpopular? Take a look at this board. It appears your liberal perspective is the unpopular one. If someone wants to kill another human being they will do so even if a gun is not available.

  25. He’s right and to be quite honest, this is more common sense than anything. I find it funny how the writer says that this will be the unpopular stance, however, the only comments I’ve seen are to Harrison’s point. The only ones denouncing this point are the writer and..well 2 Canadians.

  26. This is not the time to discuss gun control mr. Harrison. Two families need time and our prayers. You really put the D in dumb jock.

  27. never thought I would or could say this but he makes some good points. if they took away the burners and some tweak “crackhead” broke in my gizz or crib “home” and I couldn’t grab the linden because they took them I would grab desert eaz and tell him. yo cuuuuz I izaint a sucker trick back up and let the glock go ba dat ba dat ba dat.

  28. And as far as I can tell the only “unpopular” stance is Costas. On twitter he was absolutely villified.

  29. List of countries with the highest firearm related homicides rates (per capita), descending:

    Columbia, El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Swaziland, Panama, Brazil, Mexico, Philippines, Montenegro, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Northern Ireland, Zimbabwe, United States…

    At the bottom (ascending)

    Japan, South Korea, Chile, Azerbaijan, Singapore, England/Wales

    Draw your own conclusions.

  30. The inane rambling of an idiot. I really trust the opinons of gun violence from a guy who plays with a ball for a living.

  31. Also, to Harrison’s point, on Foxnews.com there’s an article about a murder investigation of a guy pushing someone in front of a subway train. And all you Canadians chiming in, beat it.

  32. Actually Mr. Wright NY has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the entire country. And one of the lowest crime rates so there goes that theory. Just go look at the violent crime rates in Texas, Florida and Louisiana, republican dominated states with very little gun control.

  33. Can you imagine if there were no guns? You’d have home invasions constantly. Nobody wants to talk about the real lives saved due to guns.

    James Harrison right on.

    Check out Rwanda. No guns hardly at all, almost a million slaughtered. Still blaming guns…………….

  34. Remember the LA riots? People interviewed freaked out because they could not get guns to protect themselves.

    All those who are against gun ownership (sorry, constitution says yes, thanks smart authors), come see me when a electromagnetic shock takes out all the electric. It would take 3-4 days and it would be animalistic chaos. You’d be begging for a gun and ammo. James Harrison just speaks the truth and it makes certain segments uncomfortable. It is still the truth.

  35. I seen the follow up with Costa’s interview and he told a story about how Tony Dungy ask 80 players how many own guns. He said 60 players raised their hands. To me that is a problem. I have no problem with gun owners but like Bob C said why does 80% of a group of young men all own guns. Then he followed up by saying he never heard a story where an pro athlete stopped some crime from occurring because he had a gun. I would make a point that there might be an issue in professional sport with gun ownership. I would ask why do so many own them? I am guessing the answer leads to a bigger issue, which really isn’t related to right to own a gun but why do people own a gun.

  36. Mr. Wright could you refer me to the statistics which you talk about. First of all where have guns been banded and I would like to see those stats, not that i doubt you.

  37. WAIT! i thought this guy was suppose to be an idiot?………………….. RIGHT on there James

  38. James Harrison scored a BULLSEYE!
    Bob Costas was free to speak his opinion.
    Sunday night football was not the proper venue to speak it however. I’m surprised that NBC has not spoken up regarding this
    media driven controversy.

  39. I’m Canadian, so obviously I’m biased. But two things:

    1. These issues need to be talked about. The politicians need to hear what the people are thinking, and it’s events like things that bring the topic to the forefront. So I don’t see it as bad taste or bad timing. I disagree with almost every person in this thread, but your voices need to be heard just as much as those who agree with Costas.

    2. It’s pretty obvious that Harrison is a responsible gun owner, who knows what he’s doing — likely he won’t be pulling a Plaxico anytime soon. If everyone who owned a gun shared his sense of responsibility, I think the issue would be a lot less divisive.

  40. I’m not arguing with the right to bear arms. It’s Constitutionally guaranteed, and that ends the discussion. But the reality is that when Belcher lost it, if the gun hadn’t been readily available, there’s a good chance both he and his girlfriend would be alive now. That’s why the murder rate in our country is exorbitantly higher than the murder rates in countries where citizens do not have the right to own firearms. People may not like to hear that, but it’s a fact.

    True, guns don’t kill people … people do. But people who have guns kill a lot more people than people who don’t have guns.

  41. I agree with Harrison, but his “fascination” with guns bothers me. Half the problem with firearms is that there are too many people like Harrison who look at guns as “cool toys”, They’re glamorized. Firearms need to be respected as lethal tools. You wouldn’t play around with a wild tiger or pose for pictures with one.

  42. This is not England and cops carry guns here. Any comparison to the US is irrelevant.
    Canada actually has more guns per person then the US. You have to take into consideration the over population in most US cities. People per Sq mile. Also Canada has a different media culture. Less negativity.
    Crime is to complicated and vast to think removing one tool will solve the problem.
    Plus if they take our guns, whats next? Anything they want at that point. This so called “free” country would be a lot less free.

  43. If somebody could tell me and other similar victims how one can avoid having their mother shot to death with a gun bought by the boyfriend/husband specifically to kill said mother then I would like to know.

    Not all gun owners are murderers, but murderers who are too lame to do anything but fire a gun from 20 feet away and then kill themselves aren’t worthy of protection brought by the 2nd Amendment.

  44. Harrison is 100% in his assessment of the KC incident HOWEVER is 100% incorrect in his statement of “being allowed to protect” himself. Please! I’m sure the world feels safer with that lunatic being able to protect himself.

    Paranoid much James?!?

    And standing behind that second amendment horse crap is a joke! When they wrote that amendment it took about a month and half to to reload your weapon and it probably did slightly more harm than a sling shot when fired!

    Yeah, 9mm auto is the same!

  45. “But all you have to do is look at the statistics, in England where not even the Police carry guns, they had a whopping 23 people killed by guns last year whereas the US averages over 23 gun deaths per day.”

    You do realize that the entire country is smaller than North Carolina, right?

  46. The last time I checked drunk driving has killed more people then incidence with guns have. And if I put my gun down in front of you is it killing you or anyone for that matter. No it’s not its the person pulling the trigger. People kill people either with guns, cars, bare hands, knives. Even if you don’t own a gun there are a lot more things in you home that can kill you. Take a long look around your home you will find more then one thing that can kill. Heck the ipad I’m using is heavy enough to kill someone. So don’t blame the gun blame the person.

  47. Wtf are you Canadian’s talking about?

    “Canada has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world. There are almost as many rifles per capita in Canada as in the United States.”

    The only difference is the ability to carry a concealed firearms. There is a big difference between the inner city of the USA and the inner city of Canada, whether you want to admit it or not. Comparing America to the UK when the population of America is 5 times that of the UK. 62 mil vs 311 mil – fact is there are a bunch of degenerates in the USA. Point Blank.

  48. I’m absolutely STUNNED by the number of complete f’n morons on this thread!! “Without guns there would be home invasions every day” …”Canada has a different media culture, less negativity”… And my personal favourite, spoken like a true cowboy: “I welcome gun lobbyists to come and try to take my guns away” easy Tex, don’t shoot anyone for wanting to discuss gun laws. Deb sounds like the only American left with a brain in her head (if you judge by this thread). It’s really no wonder the majority of the planet hates your country with ignorant comments like these.

  49. Actually Harrison’s stance IS the popular one. If this isn’t obvious from the fact that the majority of Americans are gun owners, it should be obvious from the fact that legislation has been loosening for gun ownership in recent years, not increasing. More states are adopting concealed and open carry, and reducing background checks.

    Guns, even assault rifles, are growing more and more socially acceptable. AR-15’s are commonplace in Walmart these days. That was unheard of even 2 years ago. There are more gun-based reality TV shows than I can count.

    Look at the comments and the likes and dislikes on this article…overwhelmingly pro-gun.

    Just because a small amount of Americans, which unfortunately includes a large segment the liberal media and Bob Costas, who is apparently a wanna-be liberal media member do not understand or approve of firearms or the constitution, doesn’t mean that this is the popular stance of the public.

  50. orangecisco says: Dec 5, 2012 9:52 PM

    Actually Mr. Wright NY has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the entire country. And one of the lowest crime rates so there goes that theory. Just go look at the violent crime rates in Texas, Florida and Louisiana, republican dominated states with very little gun control.

    I’m sure you saw me mention that they fudge statistics down at 1PP, didn’t you? I live in Harlem, There are numerous gun incidents every week. They mostly all go unreported and rarely make the news. I don’t care about stats when I live it and see it first hand daily.

  51. One key point he makes in my opinion is when discussing how a criminal would feel robbing a house if he knew for a fact that the residents did not own firearms, therefore drastically decreasing their ability to protect themselves if someone were to invade their home. That’s a point many people overlook, they look at the bad side of guns and forget the good side. If a criminal is lurking in a neighborhood where citizens are permitted to own firearms, he is less likely to invade a home knowing there is even a slight possibility the home owners could be armed and could kill him should he choose to enter.

    Obviously tragedies like Belcher are terrible and unnecessary, but banning gun won’t stop them from happening. What about the guy in Wyoming who killed someone with a bow and arrow? The mother in Texas who drowned her five children in the bathtub? These tragedies will still occur, people will always find other ways. It’s human nature. If they want it to happen, they will go at great lengths to make it happen. We can only protect ourselves from so much.

  52. Ah Canada, the nation that gave us Justin Bieber and Robert Goulet. Haven’t you tortured us enough?! You may not share our appreciation of the right to keep and bear arms because you never had to throw off a tyrant as America did. It’s in our American blood, and what James Harrison said today is one of the most patriotic declarations I’ve heard in a long time.

    So as Chuck Heston said in his most Mosaic voice, expressing the ancient sentiment of freedom-loving Americans everywhere, “You can have my gun, Mr President . . . when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.” Same goes for you, Mr Costas.

  53. Without a gun you can be made to bend to the will of someone with a gun.look at any break down in law and order (new orleans and LA ) you can only count on yourself. I find it funny the rich media types are against gun ownership,then go out with their armed body guards around them.

  54. Agree with several of his points…. If the Police were the only ones with guns…. I’m sorry, but that sounds like the start to a depressing sci fi movie.

  55. @Mr. Wright 212
    I used to work in Harlem west and east side as a liquor salesman. I ate lunch in Spanish Harlem , good Cuban cafes, did my biz . I would drive down Broadway from 171 st. Street through Columbia U area, past Grant’s Tome and the Cloisters Museum and on to midtown with many stores and cafes on the way. The only problem I had was meter maids hiding behind trash containers waiting to write me a parking ticket !! $400 a year, cost of doing biz.
    The nasty crime area was by far the lower East Side. Some streets no one around, no stores, no buses, no nothing, hard to believe you were in Manhattan. Very spooky for a day time scene.

  56. And no, guns are not banned here (although they’re on their way to being so), but you have to deal with a ton of red tape just to get a permit, via both the city and state, and you still cannot carry in public unless you are a public official. Not even military are allowed. Mandatory 3 1/2 years unless you plead down or have a squeaky clean image. You learned how strict the city’s gun laws were when Burress sank our sure Super Bowl repeat with his incident.

  57. There are plenty of people who believe what Harrison said is short sighted and moronic, but we have our opinions deleted. This blog is more than a little right-wing, and doesn’t like smarty-pants liberals interjecting reason into a wank fest about the glory of firearms.

    So … do you guys all feel that the best way to peace in the Middle East is to give all the Palestinians guns? I didn’t think so.

  58. You can’t blame guns just like you can’t blame video games. This is ridiculous that as a society we continue to draft way for responsibility and we continue to blame outside factors for our own actions.

  59. I love all the thumbs down for people who have the audacity to post FACTS and STATISTICS about how the United States has a disproportionately higher homicide rate than any other industrialized country. If we truly are the greatest nation on earth, we should have the lowest homicide rate, but these right wingers stammer and plug their ears like little children whenever someone forces them to think critically about a VERY serious issue, because their gun makes them feel like a big, tough man. Gun owners are insecure little people who let their fear and ignorance dictate how they live their life, and their obsession with guns is antisocial, nasty, and irrational. Plus, they wear their fetish for guns like a badge of honor, which I’m sure Jesus would be so happy about.

    And outside of the 2nd Amendment, these clowns, without a doubt, know NOTHING about our Constitution, probably can’t name who wrote it, and sure as hell can’t articulate the various powers outlined in it.

    I am sick to death of these people holding us back from joining the rest of the civilized world in the 21st century.

  60. I agree with Harrison on this 100%. Not only is the crime rate going to increase if guns are banned, but powerful criminals will also make big profit off of selling guns illegally. Just as drug lords do with illegal drugs.

  61. Well it certainly seems the “unpopular” view is incredibly popular on this web site. Gee I thought they determined popularity by the number of people that like something. But somehow NBC has it in their heads that the opposite is true apparently.

    It seems that the view that Harrison is right is running 11-1 above the view that Harrison was wrong. Are we sure that doesn’t make his view the popular one? The first post here speaks about Harrison being correct in his views. The “thumbs up” for that post are currently at 1100+. The “thumbs down” are 100. I would call that a landslide victory for those that support the second amendment. But NBC sees it as proof that Harrison is insensitive and that he takes unpopular views without fear. No wonder the news networks are hemorrhaging viewers in the last decade. They take the polar opposite view over the one the citizens of this country actually take. I wonder if they remember why Bill Clinton lost the congress back in 1994? I do. It was because he attacked the second amendment. It wasn’t a popular thing to do then either. Now they sling mud at someone who speaks up in opposition to their propagandist, Bob Costas and they have the gall to claim he is insensitive for bring up this issue. What a joke that is. Pot Kettle Black But liberals always circle the wagons when people see them as they truly are.

  62. I am a Canadian. I am against gun control. But I am also for free speech. I hear the US has that in their constitution too. If you want to so fervently protect one part of the constitution maybe it would help your cause if you would do the same for every other part of the constitution.

    Just saying.

  63. I am a Steelers Fan, and a James Harrison Fan! I am not a fan if guns, but my husband is! I have children that hunt with there father but I know thar because he taught them gun safety that my children know how to use a gun and what they are meant for. I agree that a gun in the hands of the wrong individual, can be a deadly weapon. However, I know gun safety courses are offered for hunting. Are they also available to anyone that purchases a gun? My father was in WWII and my mother had to hide his guns because he talked of harming himself after his experiences during it. People are the real weapon and maybe someone needs to look further into getting guns out of the wrong hands! I have even thought that I should have my own gun for protection, for the safety of my family and myself. Not to harm another human being!

  64. @ bradyappluadstheflag then just stay the hell up there and watch your crap canadien football!!!!!!!

  65. @floriodontquityourdayjob:

    I feel safer with Harrison owning guns than I do with you having an internet connection.

    So let me follow your logic… a majority of the PLANET hates me for no reason other than my citizenship, yet I’m “paranoid” if I’m concerned for my safety? Are you like 13 years old?

  66. Canadians hate Americans plain and simple. They find any reason to bash Americans and they are using the comments section of this story as rationale to do so. They have this unbecoming chip on their shoulders.

    I’m American and not a big fan of guns, but I’m even less of a fan of people making assumptions that all Americans are ignorant trigger-happy cretins.

    I don’t see any of the American commentors bashing your super-high tax rates or the fact that cannot pronounce your O’s correctly.

  67. I don’t think that anyone who is arguing that the gun culture in America is an issue is suggesting that the gun just hopped up and killed Belcher and his girlfriend on its own. And while limiting access to guns won’t stop someone from pushing someone in front of a train, stabbing them, beating them with a bat, strangling them or any other way of killing someone, it will make it much more difficult.

    It would also cut down on criminals breaking into a home, finding and stealing your gun that you use for protection and shooting you or someone else with it. It would cut down on innocent bystanders being shot because the criminal firing into a crowd and missing their target. It would cut down on kids finding their parent’s gun and shooting themselves or others. It would cut down on kids being able to go into their grandfather’s arsenal and shooting up their school.

    Criminals don’t go down to the store and buy guns. At least, not many of them. Criminals use stolen guns. And where are those guns stolen from? The factory? The police? Gun store robberies? No, they are stolen from honest citizens who probably didn’t even need a gun to begin with.

    The assumption that everyone who owns a gun is a responsible gun owner and they keep the weapon under lock and key with the ammo separately is silliness. The assumption that criminals would be invading homes left and right if we didn’t all have guns is silliness.

    The assumption that the only thing protecting your rights from the government is your gun is more than silliness.

    The Branch Dividians had lots of guns, how’d that work out for keeping the ATF out? What do you think your Beretta 9mm is going to do against an M1A1 Abrahams Battle tank? Do you think having twenty handguns, eight rifles, and a handful of shotguns is going to protect you from a cruise missile?

    And for the guy talking about an EMP taking out the electricity and everyone coming begging for guns and ammo… Good job plugging an NBC show on the NBC sportstalk pages, but it is hardly a realistic scenario. Might as well say, “when the dead walk the earth…”

  68. Canadians – SHUT UP. The only reason you have the money for free health care is because you don’t need a REAL military, because you are so close to us, no other country will mess with you, because they know they will have to deal with us.

    To quote a line from A Few Good Men, “I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way”.

  69. I’m a gun-totin’, squirrel- and whatnot-shooting NRA member and, like all other gun-totin’, squirrel- and whatnot-shooting NRA members, I will defend to your death the right of any gun aficionado (who said we can’t talk good?), domestic or foreign, terrorist or pacifist (well, maybe not pacifists; I hate them, and liberals, too), demented or “sane”, to buy any and all manner of guns, semi-automatics, bazookas, etc. (even small nuclear arms, cuz they’re “arms”, too, under the constitution).

    Of course, we can’t take any responsibility when the next gun-lovin’ American (or terrorist, for that matter) flips-out and unloads in some school, day-care center, church, shopping mall, etc. and kills several dozen people. That’s not our problem.

  70. So, Mr. Wright, I am to believe that NY “fudges” the statistics but I guess every other state is proud to report how violent they are. looool Get a clue.

  71. I did a three-second search (knowing I could find about 50 articles about this with little effort), just in case anyone tries to shoot back again, as if I’m making things up out of thin air:

    Manufacturing Low Crime Rates at the NYPD: Reputation Versus Safety Under Bloomberg and Kelly
    Posted: 08/13/2012 10:16 am
    NYPD , NYPD Whistle Blowers , NYPD Marijuana Arrests , Compstat , Downgrading Crimes , New York Police Department , Ny Stop And Frisk , Nypd Arrest Quotas , Nypd Downgrading Crimes , NYPD Scandals , Stop And Frisk Nypd , New York News

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    The practice of manufacturing artificially low crime rates increased substantially after 2002 under Mayor Michael Bloomberg and his police commissioner Raymond Kelly. New research based on interviews with 2,000 retired police officers from the NYPD reveals pervasive, system-wide corruption of criminal records and police practices. This research suggests that concern with the department’s reputation for reducing crime, much more than with public safety, drives police policy.

    Mountains of scientific evidence supporting this are explored in The Crime Numbers Game. The bulk of the book’s evidence came from a survey of 500 retired police officers ranked captain and above, as well as from in depth interviews with over 40 retired and active officers.

    A new survey of former NYPD officers includes 10 police chiefs, 36 inspectors, 63 captains, 262 lieutenants, 382 sergeants, and 1,154 patrol officers and detectives. The survey asked officers if they had witnessed words being changed in crime reports or observed other unethical efforts to downgrade serious crimes to lesser offenses. Using the officers who retired before 1995 as a baseline, the survey found that 25 percent of those officers had personally observed unethical crime reporting. Only 28 percent of those who retired between 1995 and 2001 had observed these activities.

    However, in the Kelly/Bloomberg era (2002 and after) over half the officers — 51 percent — had observed the intentional misclassification of serious crimes as petty offenses and other unethical practices, typically multiple times. Officers also reported that since 2002 they had experienced unusually strong pressures from supervisors to downgrade crimes and keep crime numbers low.

    The consequences of downgrading or not reporting crimes can be severe. For example, in 2010 recently retired Detective Harold Hernandez revealed to Village Voice reporter Graham Rayman that a series of sexual assault-robberies in Washington Heights had been downgraded from serious felonies to misdemeanors. As a result, the NYPD missed the crime pattern and allowed a sexual predator to remain at large for at least two months and to commit six more rapes.

    More evidence came from numerous NYPD whistleblowers. Since 2010 officers Adrian Schoolcraft, Craig Matthews, Frank Polestro, Adyl Polanco, and Vanessa Hicks have talked openly to reporters and TV cameras about the routine downgrading of crimes and the use of illegal arrest quotas by the NYPD. Not surprisingly, they have been punished by the department for doing so. Other officers have discussed confidentially the pressure to keep numbers low with reporters and researchers (including the authors).

    It is important to understand that the official crime rate is a powerful indicator of crime in New York and a broader gauge of how the city is doing. The mayor and other officials, the real estate and tourist industries, and the top brass at the NYPD all have a strong interest in keeping the crime numbers low.

    This research also indicates that the corruption of crime reports is a consequence of the misuse of Compstat (the NYPD’s computerized crime reporting and mapping system introduced in 1995). Ironically, this innovative management accountability system, which was designed to reduce crime, has become twisted. Compstat now serves as a powerful mechanism to ensure that downgrading permeates the whole department.

    At weekly Compstat crime strategy meetings, commanders are held accountable for crime in their precincts. When used in a community-oriented and problem-solving fashion, this makes great sense. But when the upper echelon’s ability to keep tabs on the crime rate and closely monitor officers and precincts is coupled with pressure to keep crime numbers low, the Compstat system is turned on its head.

    There is now a clear message emanating from the top commanders at police headquarters: make many stop and frisks, write many summonses, make many arrests for petty offenses, and downgrade serious crimes. In other words, the NYPD seeks to keep the serious crime numbers low while showing lots of officer activity. The NYPD’s 50,000 marijuana arrests, 600,000 summonses, and nearly 700,000 stop and frisks do little or nothing to make the city safer. Indeed, this unnecessary activity alienates communities and hurts the NYPD’s ability to fight serious and violent crimes.

    This strategy does not involve intelligence gathering, surveillance, or community involvement — nor does it make good use of Compstat. This is a policy created to maintain appearances, not to catch dangerous criminals. When the NYPD protects and serves its reputation for reducing crime, it does not protect and serve the people of New York; these are conflicting priorities.

    In the next year New Yorkers have an opportunity to effect change. The mayoral race is heating up as opposition to the NYPD’s racially-biased stop and frisks, marijuana arrests, and other practices intensifies. As the New York Times and others have suggested, this is an excellent time to install a federal monitor or inspector general with powers to investigate and supervise the NYPD’s practices.

    Eli B. Silverman is coauthor of The Crime Numbers Game: Management by Manipulation and professor emeritus John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

    John A. Eterno is coauthor of The Crime Numbers Game: Management by Manipulation and professor and associate dean of criminal justice at Molloy College in Rockville Centre, New York.

    Jesse P. Levine is a researcher for the Marijuana Arrest Research Project and a student at City University of New York School of Law.


  72. Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.

    And I say that as someone who had a good friend die in the VT shooting.

  73. Sorry to hear that. And frustrated that VT was a “gun-free” zone so that nobody could protect themselves.
    When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

  74. questionableprovenance says:Dec 7, 2012 1:00 PM

    Sorry to hear that. And frustrated that VT was a “gun-free” zone so that nobody could protect themselves.
    When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

    So you really think that in the chaos and confusion of the VT shooting that having more civillians firing off rounds would have been a good thing? You really think that when the assailant walked into that first classroom and started shooting people, someone in the back of the class could have just shot him and they could have gone back to their lecture? If a single person dies senselessly at the hands of a gunman that is still a tragedy! You don’t think that the idea of everyone needing to arm themselves 24/7 would mean our society had completely broken down?

    If we reach the point that getting ready for class means packing your glock into your bag alongside your books and pens it means that the moral fabric of our nation has disappeared and we are living in anarchy.

  75. I mostly agree with Harrison, but would Belcher have killed his girlfriend if he didn’t or couldn’t own a gun? That’s definitely a debate I’d like to be a part of.

  76. from the king of the nat’l violence league. who gives a crap what he thinks. He’d try to kill you anyways if you crossed him. shear goon!

  77. God made man, guns made man equal. Guns made America any way you look at it. It is your right to possess a gun and someday might be your only means to protect yourself. Plus they outlawed drugs but they still seem to get around, I don’t see how outlawing guns would be any more effective.

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