All-Pro voter: Marshall, Green won more games than Megatron

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Tim Ryan, the former Bears defensive tackle and current FOX analyst who was the lone All-Pro voter not to select Lions receiver Calvin Johnson, says he cares more about wins and losses than catches and yards.

Although neither Ryan nor FOX’s PR department responded to requests for comment from PFT, Ryan did tell The Sports Xchange that he chose Bears receiver Brandon Marshall and Bengals receiver A.J. Green over Johnson in large part because Marshall and Green won more games.

“Of course he had a great year and he is a great receiver, but I look at more than statistics and I thought a couple of other receivers had a better season, Brandon Marshall and A.J. Green,” Ryan said. “Johnson was targeted a lot and was often the only thing the Lions had going, but he also dropped a lot of passes and they did lose 12 games. I felt Marshall helped Chicago win games and Green helped Cincinnati win games. I think that is more important than statistics.”

But here’s the thing: Football is a team sport. Measuring a wide receiver by how many wins and losses a team has doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, because no wide receiver wins or loses a game by himself.

Yes, the Lions lost more games than the Bears and Bengals, but does anyone seriously believe that’s Johnson’s fault? When Johnson caught 10 passes for 164 yards and a touchdown against the Titans, but the Lions’ defense and special teams fell apart in a 44-41 loss, was that an example of Johnson not doing enough to win? When Johnson caught 12 passes for 207 yards and a touchdown against the Vikings, but the Lions lost 34-24, was that an example of Johnson not doing enough to win? When Johnson caught 13 passes for 171 yards and a touchdown against the Colts, but the Lions’ defense gave up two late touchdown drives in a 35-33 loss, was that an example of Johnson not doing enough to win?

And if we’re counting losses against individual receivers, shouldn’t we count it against Marshall that he caught just two passes for 24 yards in a loss to the Packers, and just two passes for 21 yards in a loss to the 49ers? If the Bears had won either of those games, they would have made the playoffs. Doesn’t Marshall deserve some blame for that? And how about Green catching one pass for eight yards in a loss to the Steelers, and three passes for 44 yards in a loss to the Cowboys? If the Bengals had won either of those games, they would have won their division and opened the playoffs at home instead of on the road. Doesn’t Green deserve some blame for that?

It’s also odd that, if wins and losses are Ryan’s means of measuring receivers, he chose Marshall (whose team didn’t make the playoffs), and Green (whose team made the playoffs as the sixth and final wild card in the AFC). Why not a receiver on a division winner, like Atlanta’s Julio Jones, Houston’s Andre Johnson, Houston, Denver’s Demaryius Thomas or New England’s Wes Welker?

As for Ryan’s claim that Marshall and Green were more deserving because Johnson “dropped a lot of passes,” well, that doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny. Although dropped passes aren’t an official NFL statistic, Stats Inc. counts them. And Stats Inc. found that Johnson and Marshall dropped the same number of passes last season, while Green dropped just one fewer. So Johnson dropped the same number of passes as Marshall while catching four more passes than Marshall, and Johnson dropped one more pass than Green while catching 25 more passes than Green, and somehow dropped passes are the reason that Marshall and Green were better than Johnson last season?

Johnson led the league in catches and broke the NFL’s single-season receiving yardage record by a big margin, and it’s silly to hold it against him that he did it while playing on a losing team. All-Pro recognition is an individual honor, and no receiver had a better individual season than Megatron.

111 responses to “All-Pro voter: Marshall, Green won more games than Megatron

  1. Strong argument but it would be naive to not consider personal bias also played into Ryan’s vote. I’m sure he’s a fan of someone, or he just detests the Lions and always has. Nobody will remember Megatron wasn’t a unanimous choice for 2012 All Pro team when he delivers his Hall of Fame speech.

  2. Ryan also said on sirius last week ray Lewis would be a non-factor and this week he would be exposed by manning in coverage as a liability. Still waiting for that. And while we are on the topic, if wins are all that matters, why isn’t joe flacco an all-pro when he has more wins in the first five games of his career than any qb ever. I am not suggesting flacco is but it seems many people say all that matters are wins and losses yet these same people continue to dog flacco.

  3. A former Bear picking a Bear over a Detroit Lion. It’s a biased homer pick to say the least. Ryan is garbage and should go work work ESPN/TMZ where every story is biased. Garbage! And I don’t like either team.

  4. All this proves is what most of us already know.

    Just because someone played football and now gets paid to talk about it doesn’t make their opinion any more valid than anyone else’s.

    I love the fact that we live in an age where we can use advanced stats to hold these guys’ feet to the fire a little instead of accepting their pronouncements at face value.

    Before Stats, Inc., no would have known for sure that Ryan was wrong about Johnson’s propensity for drops.

  5. Calvin Johnson had yardage and receptions, but that’s about it. He had 5 receiving touchdowns on a team with 4 wins. Last time I checked you don’t win games by most receptions or yards, you win by having the most points. I can see the justification to not vote for him.

  6. “Johnson led the league in catches and broke the NFL’s single-season receiving yardage record by a big margin, and it’s silly to hold it against him that he did it while playing on a losing team.”

    I really don’t think it is silly. How much of Johnson’s yardage total was ‘garbage time’ yardage racked up in losing efforts? I haven’t looked into myself, but if it was significant then I have no problem with a voter preferring a guy like AJ Green who put up quality numbers (including more than twice as many TDs) on a playoff team. Why did Johnson’s big numbers not translate into more TDs … maybe if he’d scored more his team might have won more games? Not knocking Calvin Johnson, just saying I don’t think a voter is “silly” to discount some of the catches and yardage totals given the circumstances.

  7. It’s idiotic if wins are seriously considered a factor for any position other than Quarterback. Ergo, Ryan is an idiot. Honors voters should be at risk of having privileges revoked in much the same way Drunk Drivers can lose their license for rolling into a ditch, 3 sheets to the wind.

  8. If I was All-Pro voter (a right which is earned) and I knew that my selections, based off my opinion, were going to be blown up on ProFootballTalk I would just keep them to myself

  9. Scoring points and winning games I what matters in this league and it does play into decisions over individual honors. AP wouldn’t even be considered for MVP if his team hadn’t won their last 4 games.

    Megatron didn’t win or accounted for 5 tds. A.J. Green scored a TD in 7 or 8 straight games this season. Brandon Marshall had a great year as well.

    Megatron is clearly the best wideout in the league. But sometimes when you don’t win you don’t get the recognition. That’s just how it I.

  10. A former Bear picking a Bear over a Detroit Lion. It’s a biased homer pick to say the least. Ryan is garbage and should go work work ESPN/TMZ where every story is biased. Garbage! And I don’t like either team.

    If you ever listen to T-rock on Sirius, you would know he is the exact opposite of a Bears homer. He is an objective talking head. He has strong options, but def not a Bears homer

  11. I bet if we looked at this guy’s fantasy football team his starting wr’s were Marshall and Green.

  12. So wait…because Chicago and Cincinnati have better teams then Detroit, that means Marshall and Green are better then Megatron?

    Marshall’s team may have had more wins, but the Bears and the Lions were both in the same spot week 18. At Home.

  13. Are you suggesting that Brandon Marshall or AJ Green didn’t have All Pro years? If you don’t think Marshall had an impact, look at the past 60 years at WR for the Bears. AJ Green and the Bengals are/were suppose to be the 3rd best team in the AFC North, back to back years they’ve made the playoffs. Tim Ryan isn’t saying that Calvin Johnson isn’t a great WR, but given the circumstances of this year, he thinks 2 other WR were more deserving, big deal.

  14. I agree with the heart of this article, but I have to disagree about one thing. Andy dalton is more to blame for any of aj’s bad game than aj. Seriously, he missed him on wide open tds at least 5 times this year

  15. “All-Pro recognition is an individual honor, and no receiver had a better individual season than Megatron.”

    Sorry but that’s wrong.
    Considering TDs are worth far more than yards I’d say quite a few receivers had a better season.
    I’ll take 12 TDs and 1382 yards over 5 TDs and 1964 yards.
    Considering Megatron had all those extra yards and catches where did the TDs go?
    The Lions lost games because their stars didn’t score enough TDs.

  16. “But here’s the thing: Football is a team sport. Measuring a wide receiver by how many wins and losses a team has doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, because no wide receiver wins or loses a game by himself.”

    I’ll remember that line the next time a QB is destroyed for a loss on this site.

  17. Yeah, that makes sense. Barry Sanders wasnt a great player either, because most of the teams he played on sucked!

  18. Based on the logic used here, Stafford should of been All-Pro too based on yardage and attempts.

    You’d think Johnson didn’t even make the team listening to some of you. One guy voted no. Heaven forbid! Get over it. Guess what, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Willy Mays were not unanimous hall of famers either. They are enshrined there, so at the end of the day, who cares?

  19. Johnson was double teamed many game and two defensive backs would line up in front on him when the Lions were near the goal line. I have never seen that! Ryan had to leave him off for some other reason because his explanation doesn’t make sense to anyone who watched football?

  20. I like how this writer is totally mesmerized by MegaTron’s yardage total but completely ignores his anemic production in terms of Tocuhdowns.

    Charles Tillman shut him down when they played and the fact that he only has five touchdowns clearly demonstrates that he wasn’t torching guys. Otherwise he’d have gotten a lot more touchdowns.

    A difference of opinion is hardly worth all of the attention and sad (not to mention verbose) attempt at publicly shaming the guy.

  21. Nobody cared about receiving yards until this year. BTW when Jerry Rice set that record he had 15 TDs and went to the playoffs. I think CJ deserved all-pro accolades, but he was not deserving of unanimous selection. Look at Adrian Peterson compared to all other RB’s this season, he was far and away much more effective this season. You can’t say that about CJ.

  22. I just don’t see the fact that Johnson was not voted all pro unanimously as a travesty. Personally, yeah, I would have voted him in. But given the fact that he only scored 5 touchdowns and had 204 passes thrown his way is notable. The catches and yards are great, but at some point all those yards have to be taken with a grain of salt.

  23. First off I like listening to Tim and Pat in the afternoons on Sirius. Pick up a lot of good information from both of them. In this situation, I believe he is wrong. If you’re not a Lions fan you are using the argument about touchdowns being less for Calvin. True, numbers don’t lie but they don’t always tell the complete truth either. Calvin was doubled and triple teamed throughout the season. He was also the complete focus for Stafford based upon the fact that for a significant part of the season Detroit played without its 2nd, 3rd, and 4th receivers and it’s #1 tight end. By season’s end they were playing with wide receivers off the street. Yet he still compiled amazing numbers…just not touchdowns because once they got into scoring position teams knew to double and triple team him.

  24. tbtrojan says:
    Jan 13, 2013 12:21 PM
    “All-Pro recognition is an individual honor, and no receiver had a better individual season than Megatron.”

    Sorry but that’s wrong.
    Considering TDs are worth far more than yards I’d say quite a few receivers had a better season.
    I’ll take 12 TDs and 1382 yards over 5 TDs and 1964 yards.
    Considering Megatron had all those extra yards and catches where did the TDs go?
    The Lions lost games because their stars didn’t score enough TDs.
    They were 6th in the league in rushing TDs, that’s were they went

  25. Anyone who argues that much of CJ”s yards and catches were in “garbage time” are talking nonsense. There was maybe 2 games all year that the Lions were not within a score of winning the game late in the 4th quarter.

  26. Either way, if you’re going to make your point by shoveling stats at us, then use stats that have some meaning. Total drops is meaningless unless viewed as a percentage of targets.

  27. Yeah, because CJ’s low number of QB sacks, hurries, Pass deflections, and interceptions were a direct reflection of why the Lions lost so many games. Wait… huh? What do you mean he didn’t play on defense and had no direct effect on that side of the ball and therefore couldn’t contribute to how the opponent’s did or did not score on the team?!?!

  28. Very well written MDS. You accurately debunked every aspect of Ryan’s lame defense of his lame all pro selections.

  29. I’d like to see the rest of Ryan’s ballot, and would like to know if he was also the only one to not vote for CJ last year?

  30. To continue my point from earlier: I liked and respected when the AP bowed out of the CFB voting process. “Our duty is to report the news, not create it.” Bravo!

  31. “Nobody will remember Megatron wasn’t a unanimous choice for 2012 All Pro team when he delivers his Hall of Fame speech.”

    Slow down, he’s not a Hall Of Famer yet.

  32. I can make sense of Tim Ryan’s comments:

    He’s more or less saying that there are a number of wins between the Bears and Bengals that would have been losses had it not been for Marshall’s and Green’s contributions during those games. They, along with the QB who threw to them, were all those 2 teams had on offense this year.

    The same is true for the Lions as well, but the difference is you have to use voth ha.ds to count the wins that the Bears and Bengals had.

    At the end of the day though, its a terrible argument. The Bears and Bengals won games with a sub-par offense due to strong defenses that scored on their own, something that the Lions do not have.

  33. I wouldn’t take anything this guy says to serious. I’ve been a die hard Bears fan since the early 80s and I didn’t even remember Tim Ryan played for the Bears. lol He obviously wasn’t much to talk about. That being said I don’t think it’s even arguable that Marshall, Green and Megatron all had pro bowl seasons. They all dominated most of the season and every WR has an off game now and then. MDS has some points here but seems to forget that it works both ways. One of the reasons the Bears beat the Lions is that Tillman dominated the supposed unbeatable Megatron.

  34. People dog Flacco cause he is not elite or clutch but thinks he is. Bengals were second in the north because of injuries to the steeler defense, we’ll see what happens when they can reload and get healthy(hopefully younger too). Now to the question at hand, I read a bit back the Lions passed the least in the 4th quarter compared to the other 3. And you can’t blame a receiver for a bad defensive performance.

  35. I’m sick of hearing that Calvin’s yards were “garbage time yards” if you actually watched the lions you would know that’s not true plus it’s amazing that he got that many yards when everyone in the entire world knew exactly who was going to get the ball. Best receiver in the league and top 5 all time. Ryan wanted attention and didn’t pick Calvin because he wants to be some kind of football guru which he is not

  36. I like the people who say he doesn’t deserve it because he only had 5 TDs. He was tackled 6 times inside the 2 yard line which directly resulted in a rushing TD because the other team plays him like he is covering a punt.

  37. The concerns about the lack of TDs make some sense until you dissect the situation a bit more. Calvin was tackled on the 1 yard line on 5 or 6 occasions and at the 2 yard line on another play. So he nearly had double digit TDs. I know getting tackled at the one yard line is not the same as getting in the endzone, but it shows you how close the numbers were to being completely in the other direction.

    And by the way, the Lions scored on each of those occasions where he was tackled at the one yard line so it did not affect the team’s overall performance.

    As for the argument about most of his yards coming in garbage time… it is simply not true. Aside from the Cardinals game, the Lions had a chance in every single game this year and thus all of his yards came within the framework of a competitive football game. Megatron is the best receiver in the game BY FAR. Nobody in their right mind would take another WR over him.

  38. As a Lions fan, I really don’t care. I feel like arguing over whether Calvin deserved 2 more votes is something we’re only doing because we weren’t good enough to compete for a playoff spot.

    Don’t get me wrong; Tim Ryan is an idiot for watching this NFL season and saying to himself that Calvin Johnson wasn’t an All Pro. But I just feel like getting worked up over his opinion is a waste of time when there are far more things I can get worked up about, as a Lions fan.

    For example, the fact that they’ve got 22 free agents on their roster this year and next to zero cap space with which to work.

  39. Brandon marshall was targeted a lot as well since Cutler had no one else to throw to.

    I think the biggest difference between Megatron and everyone else (not named Larry Fitzgerald) is the respect with which corners around the league talk about him. No one worries about Brandon Marshall the way they do about Johnson.

  40. Interesting if you asked the players? Johnson is a freak….bigger and faster than every defensive back in the league. I’m sure defensive coordinators had discussions all week that Johnson needed to to stopped and he still set the record for most receving yards in the HISTORY of the National Football league. Do you think other receiver had that much attention every game?

  41. I see the Bears won a considerable amount of games while Mr. Ryan was a player for them. Using his line of reasoning, I guess that makes him a Hall of Famer, correct?

  42. Tim Ryan was just looking to gain some attention, he knew his pick would cause a stir and get him some headlines.

    Just stop talking about it, everyone knows CJ was an All- Pro.

    They should take away his vote for using it for personal purposes.

  43. It took Ryan several days to “respond” to his critics and even then he didn’t have the courage to do so himself but had the “PR dept” resspond. Guess it took a whole department to research some b.s. reason that they thought would suffice. Not even a Lions fan but the idea of throwing chit at the wall and hoping something sticks just doesn’t cut it Ryan.

  44. huhsj says: Jan 13, 2013 1:01 PM
    I like the people who say he doesn’t deserve it because he only had 5 TDs. He was tackled 6 times inside the 2 yard line which directly resulted in a rushing TD because the other team plays him like he is covering a punt.
    Oh he almost got in the endzone, that changes everything.
    I almost won the lottery except I didn’t buy a ticket, think that will matter when I go to try buy a mansion and Bentley?
    Real great players find a way to get those extra 2 yards and the points. He’s a massive man running at full speed towards the endzone, run over the guy and the chance is you fall into the endzone.

  45. I can’t stand Tim Ryan on commentary. He’s terrible. But on this particular issue, I think he’s right. The Lions are becoming well-known to objective fans who watch them as the kings of empty yards. I saw a statistic the other day that said some 30% of all Stafford’s yards were in garbage time. That’s terrible. Calvin Johnson had 5 TDs. 5! That’s terrible for a #1 WR.

    I can’t speak for Brandon Marshall because I didn’t watch enough Bears game to make a proper judgment but AJ Green definitely deserved it more than Calvin. He also got relentlessly double-teamed and still managed to get double-digit TDs. It made me sick to see Calvin and Lions fans celebrating with huge smiles on their faces after he broke the record. You went 4-12!

    Jason Babin had 18 sacks in 2011. Tony Romo had 4,900 passing yards this season. It’s not all about stats. Calvin was dominant yes, but you can’t just look at 1,900 yards and assume he was the best even though his team went 4-12 and many of his yards came in garbage time.

  46. 49-1 enough said – this guy is a fickin’ moron and should have his voting right revoked! No educated man would ever take Green or Marshall over Megatron EVER!!

  47. Breaking Jerry Rice’s record wasn’t enough? Was Johnson supposed to play in the secondary too, so his team could win games?

  48. What a tool , what he fails to relaize this isn’t a MVP vote who had more wins and losses , it’s an all pro who was the best at there respected postion, regardless of record ,

  49. Using wins to judge WRs isn’t sound logic by Tim Ryan. That said, a better argument would’ve been TDs. Calvin only had 5, while AJ and Marshall each had 11. Think of it this way: If a QB threw for 5500 yards and 20 tds, would you vote for him, or a QB that threw for 4000 yards and 40 TDs? Calvin is certainly the best WR in the NFL, but I can see how someone would argue that other WRs may have been more deserving. How much yardage did Megatron get in garbage time while trying to get this record?

  50. most of the time when an NFL player is breaking a significant record, they’re doing it on a winning team going to the playoffs. (i.e. peyton, brady, tomlinson, moss, etc)

    so i could see how this writer has a point. but either way, megatron was the best at his position, so this writer has no idea what he is talking about.

  51. If you were putting together an all pro team and your first WR pick was not Calvin Johnson than you obviously haven’t been watching the NFL the last few years. He is by far the best WR out there and both Marshall and Green are a very distant 2nd and 3rd.

  52. Great argument. I don’t know what is more shocking: that Tim Ryan didn’t vote for Johnson or that a tool like Tim Ryan actually is one of only 50 people that get the privilege to vote for such a prestigious honor? I am amazed that he has a vote. What are his qualifications?

  53. It’s a travesty that Tim Ryan didn’t vote for CJ. Wins and losses shouldn’t matter a bit. Who cares if CJ didn’t score that many touchdowns – it’s yards that really matter, and CJ led the league by a mile! Who cares if his team was bad? That wasn’t CJ’s fault. What other things is a wide receiver supposed to do besides gain yards?

    Now, re-read the paragraph above, substitute Luke Kuechly for CJ, sacks for touchdowns, tackles for yards, and linebacker for wide receiver. Then you could basically make the same argument for Carolina LB Luke Kuechly that everyone is making for CJ. CJ had ONE writer not vote for him, and Kuechly didn’t even make the All-Pro team. I don’t see why everyone’s jumping all over Tim Ryan for this.

    My point is, there are a lot of things to vote on… people seem to recognize that for other positions, so why not wide receiver?

  54. Yet more “garbage time” ignorance. Football fans should have to pass a test before they are allowed on the internet. The scourge of our interwebs is the misinformation spread by the lazy.

  55. Adrian Peterson was unanimous. Why didn’t Tim Ryan vote for Frank Gore over A.P.? He won more games?

    Why not just make the team with the most wins the Associated Press All Pro Team?

    The guy is anti-Lions, his decision is so bad and so clear we ought to stop talking about it.

  56. It is actually very simple.

    Forget the record and every other stat

    CJ was the best WR in the game last year, often he was the best player on the field.

    If you asked the 32 HC’s and OC’s in the League to choose 1 WR for their team, everyone would say CJ.

    All-Pro, one of the easiest calls ever, except for one imbecile.

    People please stop making excuses, Tim Ryan made a mock of his ballot.

  57. People saying his lack of tds doesn’t hurt. It foes when 39 others had more tds. And mds go on and delete my post again. At least Ryan will back up his argument unlike you. You jut delete any comment that questions you. Be a man and tell me why a player ranked 40t for tds is the best. Again yard don’t mean anything. Brees, romo and Stafford all had 5k yards. How many playoff APPEARANCES did they have this year? 0. Yards are not the be all end all in the NFL and if you can’t understand that then your a dang fool

  58. Again, after last season, teams game planned to limit CJ and keep him between the 20’s. They schemed against CJ getting behind them and keeping him out of the end zone. It’s means they give up or take their chances on the inside and intermediate stuff. It worked. He could not get behind them consistently for scoring big plays. Which is why the guy averaged 100 plus yards a game but could not find the end zone effectively or enough to win. Logically, only 5 TDs off that many yards is ridiculous. The other guys scored effectively despite the same coverage. Historic year, in statistical terms, but something is wrong with this picture when it doesn’t translate into scores or wins. Ryan is perfectly within reason.

  59. Ryan said. “Johnson was targeted a lot and was often the only thing the Lions had going,”……….

    If Megatron is basically the only weapon Detroit has, then he is constantly bracketed, double teamed and focused upon. Wouldn’t that make his accomplishments even more impressive?

    Tim Ryan’s logic is flawed at best. These guys that were on the fringes of being in the NFL, then become an “analyst”, start to think that they are so much smarter than everyone else.

  60. I was pretty flabbergasted when I heard this the first time, but I do have to admit that there are lots of compelling arguments to support his choice based upon convenient statistical nitpicking and indirectly tying that to the wins. I still think the vote should have gone to him of course, but really the big problem here is that when you have a guy like CJ, you just need to go out and get the wins you should get and not create opportunities for this type of a shafting.

    The Lions deserve to get snubbed because no team in the NFL failed harder and with greater disappointment than the Lions did based upon what they had and what they should have done. It serves us right, even if it’s unfair to CJ, but that’s the price you pay when your team lets you down as hard as the Lion’s staff did this year.

  61. Warning: I have done no real analysis to support my comments and I am a huge Jerry Rice fan.

    With that said, there’s a huge difference in piling up yardage in meaningful games and piling up yardage when your team is down in garbage time. If they did a wide receiver ranking similar to the QBR which weighted contributions based on situation and “clutchness” I don’t think Calvin would be in the top group.

    That said, it’s not really Calvin’s fault that his team sucks and if there was a draft of all the WR’s in the league, he would be picked first every time.

    Huge Homer Alert! If you want to see a guy making awesome catches and run after catches in the clutch this year, see Michael Crabtree…FINALLY!!

  62. Citing wins when and TDs when arguing Marshall over C. johnson is pretty stupid considering both of them missed the playoffs. So, both teams failed equally. The Bears’ situation is actually worse considering they only had 1 loss in the first 7 or 8 games of the season. Marshall certainly didn’t lead them to many wins in the second half of the season. Where were his all-pro performances down the stretch, when they were needed most?

    Now, let’s think about the silliness as to why either Marshall or Green would be voted for instead of Andre Johnson.

  63. A lot of Calvin Johnson’s stats feel empty. Detroit was a horrible team who was always losing and always throwing the ball to catch up, which inflated Calvin’s stats. It’s not a coincidence that Stafford set the record for pass attempts in a single season.

    Personally, I still would’ve voted Johnson All-Pro. But just because someone disagrees doesn’t mean that deserves an 800 word moralizing screech basically calling that person an idiot. But then again, I’m not as desperate for attention as Michael David Smith

  64. Tim Ryan’s future opinions now means nothing. Please don’t even bother letting us know his opinion in the future. He is a bright as the color black.

  65. wisewoo says: Jan 13, 2013 12:12 PM

    “Was he a dominant player? Did he win his matchups?”

    Yes, just not against the Bears or Seattle…Still an All-Pro, just like Marshall and Green, in spite of a couple subpar games.

  66. Me, I’d have voted for CJ on yards alone, but Ryan’s argument that wins should count for something has merit, and he is entitled to vote as he sees fit. And those of you overreacting to this are idiots.

  67. Everybody throws out “garbage time” and nobody defines it. Is it garbage time if the team comes back to win the game? Is it garbage time if your team is up by 24 points? Its meaning varies by individual so using that as the basis for an argument is absurd. The only argument really is that he had only 5 TDs. How many are necessary? It doesn’t matter if the vote is unanimous. There is always somebody willing to be “that guy”

  68. Did this voter also select Michael Turner and Stevan Ridley over Adrian Peterson at the RB position?

  69. It’s the same screwed up reasoning that decides who makes the Hall of Fame. A greater player on a poor team may never make it, while marginal guys on Super Bowl winning teams do. That’s total BS in such an extreme TEAM sport where players often have no say in where they play.

  70. I can see where Ryan is coming from. Marshall and Green had more meaningful yards than Megatron did. CJ, though not necessarily his fault, put up a lot of meaningless yards and did a lot of stat padding when his team had no chance of winning. So I don’t see this as a big deal. I mean it’s not like Ryan voted for Jerome Simpson over Megatron.

  71. Wow. There’s a lot of anger toward Ryan for this. I don’t agree with his vote, but of the two guys he voted for at WR, Marshall was the other first team AP guy and Green was a second team AP guy. It’s not like he voted for Danny Amendola and Ben Obomanu.

    The idea that it was a biased vote from a former Bear for a Bear over a Lion kind of goes away when the Bear he voted for was the other first team guy.

    Like I said, if I had a vote, I’d have voted for Megatron, but like it or not, Ryan gave legit reasons for supporting the guys he did.

  72. All you Lions fans whining about Tim Ryan act like the man stole something from you, when the truth is CJ still made All-Pro…And Ryan probably had no clue how his fellow scribes would vote when he submitted his, so the whole ‘he wanted to be that guy’ argument makes no sense, either.

    But y’all just keep on crying, because how dare ANYONE vote against your precious CJ and his record-breaking stats.

  73. I’ve never seen a pft article this long before, you must really be upset he didn’t get the award… get over it… the awards mean nothing.. reminds me of last year when newton won rookie of the year over Dalton… most of the season the lions were playing from behind therefore they were required to throw more. the lions don’t have anyother receiver so of course he’s gonna have more targets and catches and therefore more yards and tds… he had a great season however the voter apparently thought green and Marshall had better seasons… get over it move on…

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