Pete Carroll offers novel excuse for kicker-icing backfire

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Falcons kicker Matt Bryant Norwooded a 49-yard field goal attempt that came after a timeout was called at the end of Sunday’s NFC playoff thriller, and FOX cameras promptly showed an incredulous Seahawks coach Pete Carroll apparently arguing to an official that the Seahawks didn’t call the timeout.

Eventually, FOX showed a replay of Carroll calling the last second timeout.

And so it is that Carroll has become the latest coach to wait as late as possible to ice the kicker, and to have the kicker miss the kick.  And make the Mulligan.

As it turns out, Carroll was upset not because he was trying to disavow the timeout after clearly calling it.  Carroll said during his post-game press conference that he was miffed because he had been told before the game that, under those circumstances, the kicker would not be allowed to kick the ball.

It’s common for coaches to talk to officials before a game about things that will or may happen during the game.  Most notably, Saints coach Sean Payton gave the crew a head’s up before Super Bowl XLIV that he was planning a surprise onside kick.  Carroll explained that this oddly specific topic came up on Sunday because Ravens kicker Justin Tucker apparently finagled a practice kick between overtimes on Saturday night.

But what did Carroll expect the officials to do, physically block the Falcons from kicking the ball?  Throw a flag for delay of game?  Carroll admitted that the officials didn’t know what they would do if someone took the practice kick.

So why push it by pushing the timeout to the last possible second?

Carroll has been coaching long enough to know that it’s not unprecedented for teams to take late timeouts before critical field-goal attempts, and for the kicker to get a practice kick if the timeout comes too close to the snap.  Plays routinely commence after a late timeout is called.  Absent a clear statement from the league that the procedures are changing and that any team that snaps the ball after a timeout is called and, in the case of a field goal try, kicks the ball will be penalized, it’s unreasonable to think that the officials will do anything other than say to the coach who called the timeout, “You should have called it sooner.”

And that’s what Carroll should have done.  Or, better yet, he shouldn’t have called it at all.

The truth remains that no coach is ever criticized for not icing the kicker.  That’s the single best reason to never do it.

174 responses to “Pete Carroll offers novel excuse for kicker-icing backfire

  1. Personally iceing the kicker is pretty classless. I don’t see a problem with teams taking a practice shot if they have the whistle blown on them. Prehaps that will finally put an end to iceing….

  2. I think what killed Seattle was all the missed opportunities in the first half. What was with the play calling at the end of the second quarter? They get a field goal out of that miss and they probably win the game.

  3. The whole thing is stupid. It is stupid that you call a time out before they kick and it is stupid that you want to penalize a kicker for a practice kick. Nevertheless, you have a time out and it doesn’t matter when you can use it.

  4. People jus love to nit pick, when the team wins you get to mush credit , when the team loses you get to mush lame, that’s life in the nfl, secound guessing by fans , players ,media and everyone else involved

  5. Does Pete Carroll think the ref should throw his body in front of the kick. He is a jackass and a terrible coach and if he had just stayed out of the way the Seahawks would have won.

  6. I kinda gotta agree with Carroll here. I thought he called timeout “soon enough” before the play was going to start. I’ll give credit to the long snapper, holder and kicker for going through with it anyway. But it seems to me that the timeout was called before the snap was imminent. So should the league make a rule to penalize a team for practicing a field goal after the whistle is blown?? probably.

  7. Classic: Important kick -> Head coach ice the kicker -> kicker take pratice kick and miss, just to make the kick that counts making the coach look stupid.

    Morten Andersen said that he appreciated every time a coach tried to ice him, because it gave him extra time to prepare and most times a free practice kick.

    Practice should be to, not take a timeout, and it should be called “hurrying the kicker”.

  8. Pete needs some wine with that cheese.

    If you’re gonna be a weasel and wait til the last second then you run the risk of allowing a practice kick. That TO would’ve come in handy on their last drive thanks to the shanked squib kick. Bad job all the way around by ol’ Petey.

  9. I’m very happy to see Cheat Carroll, and loud mouth, smack talking, but burned when it matters Richard Sherman get bounced from the playoffs! But sad to see Russ Wilson out. Keep ya heads up Seahawks fans you have a bright future with this kid leading your team. He has the “it” that people talk about when referring those special players.

  10. So by extrapolation, if the offense runs the play after a false start is whistled, we’re going to call multiple fouls?

    Why would the officials ever even made the comment in pre-game. That was just dumb.

    Of course, after watching the disaster that was Vinovich’s crew in Denver, anything is possible.

  11. Isn’t it ironic that Pete Carroll now finds himself blaming the officials for the outcome of a Seahawks game?

  12. The ATL kicker knew the play was dead and took a free shot to gauge the distance. There was no way he was shanking that kick despite the icing attempt.

    Any talk that Carroll blew it by calling the timeout is bogus. PC will learn from this game and improve before next year’s playoffs.

    Go Hawks!

  13. Honestly that’s what I thought he was arguing. (Keep in mind, just minutes before this play Billick discussed the possibility of SEA kicking a FG and trying to recoving an onside kick, so I take the commentary with a grain of salt).

    The whistles for the time out were clearly blown well before “hike.” I imagine Carroll wanted to ice Bryant without giving him the mulligan. It didn’t work out the way he planned, but I don’t think he was making up a story to save his @ss.

  14. I’ve never understood icing the kicker. Nobody in the history of the sport has ever been criticized for NOT icing the kicker, so why would you do it? No fan or media talking head has ever thought “We surely would have won the game, if coach had only iced that guy”, but attempting to ice the guy opens you up for the possibility of screwing the pooch, just like this. It seems like a control issue to me….the coach is trying to exert the one tiny bit of control left to him in that situation, when he should just let the opposing kicker (attempt to) do his job.

  15. Did anyone else think Bryant didn’t exactly put all his effort into the first kick? To me it looked like he clearly paused after seeing the refs call the timeout, and then decided to kick it anyway, which is probably why he missed it.

  16. Regardless of the kick, the Hawks D allowed the Falcons to get into field goal range far too easily on that last drive. With only 30 secs left on the clock they should have been able to get the job done but didn’t, yet Carroll is getting the blame for his timeout tactics. Strange!

  17. yes that was a bone-headed call on Carroll’s part, but an even bigger mistake is when he went for it on 4th and 1 at, I believe, the Falcon 5 yard line…he took three points of the board with that little bit of stupidness.

  18. Just one of a series of coaching gaffes that prevented the Seahawks from beating an inferior team for the 3rd time this year. Lions, Dolphins and Falcons (and Bears) all benefitted from Gus Bradley’s weak, soft, late game zone schemes. Here’s hoping he gets hired elsewhere and somebody more aggressive is brought in that won’t go panicky-cautious in the final 2 minutes.

  19. More silliness from Carroll. By the time the whistle sounds from the side judge and the remaining refs have timeto blow off the play there are a few seconds or so which have elapsed. The ball may very well have been snapped during that time period. The players should always play through unless they are absolutely sure the play has been called dead. Can you imagine the uproar if a team ever froze and lost a game because they thought a timeout had been called when it had not?

  20. Icing the kicker is counter-intuitive. The idea is that it will cause the kicker to overthink, to get stressed, and ultimately cause him to miss.

    Logically, however, you have to remember these are professional. They practice months to make these kicks. Giving them MORE time to get set likely helps them get to the exact mental place they want to be.

    The highest odds on a miss (not counting bad weather or turf) is on a team RUSHING to make the kick. That’s when someone might miss a block, the hold might be mishandled, the kicker might not line up right…or he might mentally just not be ready enough.

    Icing a kicker likely improves the chances of making the kick.

  21. I’m not so sure Bryant was giving 100% effort when he kicked that FG. The whistle had blown well in advance and it seemed like he was just going through the motions. Think of it in terms of NBA. How often do you see a timeout called and a player, well after the whistle, chucks up a lackadaisical three point shot. That’s what Bryant’s “missed” fieldgoal reminded me of — a half-assed attempt. Personally from watching the game I thought Carroll called it in plenty of time but what are you gonna do? Kicker could just say he never heard the whistle.

  22. It defeats the whole purpose to ice a kicker at the last possible second and give him a practice kick. It’s just idiotic. If you want to ice him fine, but just make sure you do it early enough where he doesn’t get 2 shots at it.

  23. Carroll is just sleazy… Something about that guy really bothers me. Not only because he is the coach of the Seahawks, he is just sleazy…

  24. You want to ice the kicker, the kicker gets a practice shot.

    You do not want the kicker to get a practice shot, you do not try to ice the kicker.

    You want to abuse a time out for reasons other than preserving time or make changes, the kicker gets to abuse the opportunity you offer him too.

  25. Being a jerk cost you the game.

    Seahawks fans have to chew on that the entire offseason.

    Sucks for the fans, but it serves Carroll right for being a jerk about it.

  26. he got exactly what he deserved for a)waiting so long to call the t.o… and b)using the bush league move in the first place… they should get rid of the rule and just let these guys play football, instead of being mad about the kick he should be mad about his teams play through the first 3 quarters!

  27. I kinda hate this practice I would line up let him look at it and then call a timeout let the nerves get to him. Giving a practice kick is so stupid!!! Still a great finish to the game!!

  28. In typical cheating Pete Carroll fashion he tries to act like he didn’t call the timeout and complain that the kicker shouldn’t have kicked the ball. That’s the best possible way you could’ve lost..a last second dagger to the heart. Goodbeye Pete…it’s over.

  29. You can’t blame Pate for calling the timeout…if it had worked in the opposite matter everyone would be praising him. It just shows that you need good to be lucky and lucky to be good

  30. Face it Pete. With everything on the line you came up small. It’s over … and it’s on you.

  31. The NFL can never create a rule that prevents a kicker from taking a practice kick if a coach ices him. I mean, how many times does the kicker actually know that a timeout was called? A lot of the time the players do not hear the timeout and don’t find out that the timeout was called until after the kick was away. Can you imagine if a kicker decided not to kick the ball because he thought a timeout was called and he wanted to avoid a penalty, yet no timeout was called? This season has proved that icing the kicker is worthless. There is never more pressure on a kicker than when he has to step out on the field and has 40 seconds to kick a game winning field goal – timeouts just let the kicker collect themselves and think about the situation. The less time the kicker can consider the kick, knowing they have to trace back to their practice kicks and compensate for wind, trajectory, at a yard maker that may have only been achieved on the last play, I don’t know why any coach would “ice” a kicker.

  32. The play that lost this game was going for it on 4th and 1 instead of taking a FG. This isn’t college, Carroll.

  33. He out-smarted himself. He must have been too “Jacked” and too “Pumped”.
    The biggest issue is that he initially denied doing it. Seems like USC, where he denied that too.

  34. Sorry Pete, these aren’t the replacement refs, so they’re not about to give you another win

  35. Bonehead decision by Carroll after an incredible comeback. Bryant is a veteran at home in a nice comfy dome, please.

  36. I was rooting for the SeaHawks and then remember who was coaching them.

    At least they weren’t playing in those gawd-awful dark uniforms.

  37. Carroll has nobody to blame but himself. How often does icing a kicker actually work? Seems to me like most times it is better to just let him kick it, instead of giving him a practice kick.

  38. The kicker heard the whistle, hesitated, and then hurried up and made sure he got the practice kick in. It was clearly not the routine he used on the kick that he drilled down the middle. And if they’re going to ban icing the kicker, please apply it to the NBA on free throw shooting too.

  39. It was a bad call… Icing the kicker is a iffy thing… just didnt work out this time. Still had a amazing season with a VERY young team! Im a HUGGGEE Steelers fan and i was riding on the Russell Wilson bandwagon… hes a special kid!

  40. I would think at this point, NOT icing the kicker would be more effective. Its so expected now human nature everyone would be anticipate that timeout to be called, at least subconsciously, and might take them out of the routine a little.

  41. He must have seen the NBA ref block Kris Humphries free throw and figured one of the NFL refs would do the same on the field goal attempt.

  42. Carroll is a cheater. Despicable the way he tried to lie to the ref after icing the kicker. This guy is a classless clown.

    Glad to see Seattle lose on an intercepted Hail-Mary.

  43. What comes around goes around. Pete Carroll and company stole the Packers game earlier in the year. And now, they had one taken right out from under them, and it is all Carroll’s fault. People get what they deserve.

  44. Not “allowed”? What, is the ref supposed to run and spear the holder? If he calls a timeout 1 second before the snap it takes the official .5 sec at least to react. The ball will get snapped and if the kicker is smart they will just continue their routine of kicking it. If anything it will ease them for round 2.

    It’s a BS move by the coach anyway so I think they deserve to lose if the kicker makes it.

  45. Icing the kicker like that has statistically proven not to work.
    Either call the timeout as they line up or don’t call it all. Don’t try to cut it so close.

  46. Yeah, I didn’t understand Carrols argument either, though it would’ve been epic to see the referee run, leap, lay himself out, and block the practice kick!

  47. Hopefully that ill advised call by Pete will put an end to “icing” the kicker with those ridiculous time outs. (Way to blow a season, Pete)

  48. Carroll and his team are a bunch of classless guys. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. Enjoy him while he wins, Seattle fans, because his pettiness will wear thin very soon once the inevitable losing starts.




    Lets hear these latte frenzied Carroll apologists defend him now.

  50. Although I believe the main reason that Bryant missed the mulligan was because he briefly stopped himself before kicking it messing up his timing.

    You could see him stop for a split second, then realize that he can get a practice kick and then finished his kick.

  51. Pete Carroll is a cheat and is a dirty coach of a dirty team. They remind me of the Lions of last year who got every break even though they are dirty. I will give Russell Wilson all the respect in the world and he certainly seems classy. The rest, including the coach, are punks and it is good to see them out of the playoffs.

  52. If I were a coach, I’d never ice a kicker. Just opens yourself up to second guessing. Granted, if I were a coach, I’d be 0-16 every season, so the situation probably would never arise.

  53. Two things:

    1. In the end, Carroll’s arrogance cost the Seahawks. They opted against 6 points that would eventually desperately need. You don’t pass on points on the road, especially early in a game. His ice the kicker timeout also gave Bryant a free miss. The pressure is greatest on the kicker on the first kick.

    2. Ironic that the self-proclaimed best secondary in the NFL couldn’t stop Matt Ryan for two plays that they needed to save their season. I guess they aren’t the best — just the most obnoxious.

  54. If Bryant’s first kick isn’t negated by Carroll’s timeout call, the Seahawks are in the NFC championship.

    Can anyone think of an instance where a kicker has been successfully ‘iced’? More often than not it seems like it just gives the kicker on opportunity for a practice swing.

  55. I am not sure why all coaches seem to call a timeout right before the try. Yeah, it gives the kicker more time to think about the attempt…but then the kicker knows the next try wont be stopped by a timeout. If coaches want to get into the head of the kicker, they should switch between not calling a timeout and calling one.

  56. Not to mention it’s been over 20 years since the last barefoot kicker was “iced” during a cold outdoor game….and that is really the only time icing a kicker should be used.
    Sort of a known fact that the odds for a kicker missing a kick are no better or worse after they had time to think about it….now a frozen foot on a barefoot kicker is another story altogether!

  57. Seattle’s defense wet the bed. It was a heck of a year for them though. 49er fans were so scared of Seattle they didn’t want home field advantage. They’ll gladly travel to The A.

  58. Atlanta should have been flagged for delay of game, no question, especially if this very scenario had been addressed prior to the game. Bryant cheated and was rewarded with a practice kick, he adjusted and made the second. Seahawks were the better team and were robbed by a cheater and officials who didn’t do their jobs.

  59. “Icing the kicker” is one of the dumbest strategies in football. It rarely, if ever, goes the defensive team’s way. I don’t understand why coaches insist on doing this. Pete Carroll is yet another coach that will be watching the Superbowl from the comfort of his home because of trying to ice the kicker, rather than going to the NFC Championship game.

    Sorry, Pete.

  60. Maybe that will put a stop to the last-second timeouts to ice the kicker. They call the timeout. The center, with his head down and through crowd noise, snaps the ball–he is worried about the play clock-a delay of game ends the season. The kicker, focused on the timing, sees the ball getting placed–he kicks the ball.

    That is the price you pay when you try to ice a kicker. My opinion? Do not give the kicker more time to get his thoughts together. The pressure of the play clock and the rush onto hte field has more of a chance to mess him up.

    Sorry Carroll. You of all people have no reason to be angry at officials (Green Bay game).

  61. Karmas a B. Whenever you run your mouth it will catch up with you.

    So long to the most obnoxious coach, team, and fanbase in the league.

    Sorry you couldn’t face a QB with a gimpy leg this week.

    Congrats on your Wild Card win*. Hope Sherman beat the traffic home.

  62. The kick wasn’t 100% effort anyway. The ball was snapped so Bryant used the opportunity to gauge the kick even though he hesitated and half-hearted my kick the ball. Compare the two kicks.

  63. They’ve been playing this game forever around here and, still, nobody can get the rules right. The NFL, for all it’s glory, still has an element of clownishness in it, as well as inconsistency.

  64. At least he didn’t “ice” his own kicker. That strategy is only attempted in Dallas.

  65. Its actually no big deal pete. Fans are more concerned with your lack of faith in the Seahawks kicker. Going for it on 4th downs instead of getting the easy 3 points cost us the game. Oh well, season is over and team exceeded expectations

  66. Petey can “say” whatever he wants and in this situation I guess he had to come up with some b.s. reasononing for his tirade at the officials once he figured out that it was on video that he was the one who called the time out. It’s rare that you see the good coaches try to use a college trick to freeze the kicker but hey Petey and Schiano are both college coaches.

  67. After battling from twenty points down to a chance to win the game coach Pete Carrol and not his players lose the football game because of a senseless,boneheaded timeout.these NFL kickers are too good to allow a late timeout to affect the kick though as happened before they sometime miss the first kick only to get a second chance after the timeout and make it.time for all coaches to stop giving opposing kickers extra chances by calling timeout.

  68. Watching the replay (in real time not in slow motion) you will see the timeout was called with plenty of time for the snapper to not snap the ball. One of the refs actually approaches the snapper to get the ball. Having said that, there was plenty of time for the holder to just hold the ball after the late snap. And certainly enough time for the kicker to realize the timeout has been called. If there isn’t a rule against the kicker taking an obvious practice kick after the timeout, there should be a change in the rules.

  69. skippynj says:Jan 14, 2013 8:46 AM

    “Atlanta should have been flagged for delay of game, no question…..”
    Delay of game when your coach called a timeout on the field, yeah right. Your coach lost this game for you, twice from the 1yd line he goes for it and neither time has Lynch in the backfield. I think any professional coach would take a field goal in that situation, down 20-0 early in 2nd qtr just to get some pts on the board but then Petey isn’t really a professional coach is he. Petey’s rah rah rah college approach jacks his players up now but in 2yrs they’ll figure it out and Petey will be back at some college figuring a way to cheat again.

  70. Seattle Lost that game more then the falcons won it

    For sum reason as good as falcons are they look really bad at times way to much.

    Seattle had a great run. But started off game way to slow

    And where was time management at end of game yes they needed to score a td to take lead but they had 4 downs to do it n I believe 2 timesouts they didn’t force falcons to use any in case of score.

    But wilson played one hell of a 2nd half Hope he wins rookie of the yr

  71. What a classless schmuck! Typical Carroll style…cheat, lie, win by any means you can get away with including performance enhancing drugs! He was the same at USC and he and his merry band of hopped up cheaters got what they deserved. I hope Russell Wilson can separate himself from this franchise of losers and have a career in the NFL before he is corrupted (if he isn’t already) by his surroundings. Perfect ending for the Seahags and Carroll! Great game for Matty Ice, Tony Gonzales (real class act) and the Falcons!

  72. I like the idea of NOT icing the kicker for this reason. Everyone is wondering if you are going to ice the kicker and the kicker has to have this in the back of his mind. Once you do “ice” him, he knows it is not going to happen so he can just focus on his routine and making the kick. I wish the Pats had “iced” Cundiff last year. Doubtful he would have missed had he had time to gather himself.

  73. As other have said, I’m GLAD to see Pete and the Hawks lose. I do respect the team and Wilson is great and MIGHT be playing in this league for a long time, but I do not like their coach and I do not like their fans. Couldn’t be happier that they lost. Made my day.

  74. probably said before in the replies but the Falcons have now done this 3 times in a season.

    There was a game a few years back when the correct call was made, it’s a delay of game to do what the Falcons keep doing. It’s a 5 yard penalty to kick the ball after the TO is called.

  75. The dumb move was not just going for it on 4th and 1. It was handing the ball to Michael Robinson instead of giving it to Lynch or letting Wilson bootleg it. I mean, really. Michael Robinson?

    Carroll is a bad game-day coach. Showed it again yesterday.

    Great to see this classless bunch gone. As has been posted numerous times, karma has caught up with them. When was the last time a group of total a-holes like Carroll, Sherman, etc. have won it all?

  76. Saturday, Bailey should have jumped right in front of the Ravens kicker who was practicing right in front of him. Yesterday, a Seahawk (Sherman, maybe, who was offised numerous times on kicks) should have fired around and blocked the kick when the OL wasn’t moving. Problem solved.

    And it should be a penalty. A returner is flagged for undue advance if he calls for fair catch and runs with the ball. The whistle should mean play stops.

  77. will you crybaby redskin fans give it a rest with the karma and cheater comments? seriously, it’s football. No team is ever going to win every game. you can’t just sit and wait for a team that whooped yours to lose and then start saying karma is why they lost. it’s stupid. besides, karma for what? For Reggie bush taking money from agents while in college? For referees and league officials making a questionable call in Seattle’s favor? Yeah, those were both all Carroll’s doing and he’s the one to blame.

    Bottom line, the Seahawks were considered to be in the bottom third of the league coming into the season and they ended up as one of the best and most feared teams in the league. And you don’t hate them because they’re “cheaters” or “trash talkers” (it’s the NFL, who isn’t a trash talker?) you hate them because they’re good and you’re jealous of their success. It’s pathetic. But if it makes sense in your little brains and makes you feel better about your team, go ahead. Doesn’t change the fact that Pete Carroll has built a hell of a young football team.

  78. Carroll got a lot out of this team this year. They had one bad half and it cost them dearly. They still almost pulled it off. That rookie QB is really good and outplayed Matt Ryan, who is the #2 most overrated QB next to Jay Cutler. The Seahawks were a fun team to watch all season. Hopefully that near-collapse woke Ryan up and he’ll come to play next week at home against a team that won’t take the first half off.

  79. Carrol clearly waited too long to call the time out. You never wait till the C can snap it. I also believe ATL should have been flagged for delay of game. The whistles clearly blew well before the C snapped for a practice kick. Just as We have seen other flags thrown for disrupting the tempo of the game in many other games.

  80. Classless = Pete Carroll. Did anyone else see Him after the miss say who called the timeout? Acting like no one did. Uh, Pete the ref you called it to and blew His whistle knew that you did jackass!What a piece of garbage Pete is.

  81. So how was the Ravens kicker allowed to have a practice kick on the field during the changeover to the 2nd OT during that game?

    How is that not against the rules?

  82. Only a few times a season do we get to see someone snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Thank you Pete, for that textbook example.

  83. The problem is solved simply by not allowing timeouts to be called as the ball is just about being snapped. It is allowed, so I’m not going to say coaches shoudln’t do it, but I just think it is a bad part of the game. Once the ball is whistled in for play a timeout shouldn’t be allowed on FGs

    Also, you can’t say whetehr or not Bryant would have missed the FG if the timeout wouldn’t have been called. Once the whistle blew and nobody rushed there is certainly different mentality with the kicker.

  84. I thought from the outset that Carroll was arguing about Bryant actually taking a practice kick. The whistle blew at least two seconds before the center snapped the ball, and Bryant went ahead and kicked it anyway. I could certainly see that as being a delay of game penalty if the rules were more clear.

    While I don’t have a problem with Bryant taking a practice kick, I also understand Carroll being upset about it. If the NFL wants to add some clarity to this, they can change the rules and either penalize the kicker with a delay of game, or simply disallow timeouts by the defense that are taken soley for the purpose of icing the kicker (although I don’t know how you prove that 100% of the time).

  85. Matt Bryant knew the play was dead and was just going through the motions and judging distance, he didn’t “miss” the first kick.

  86. Icing the kicker has become so much the norm that I wonder if it wouldn’t be more disruptive to NOT call time out. Kickers are professional athletes with tremendous focus, but if somewhere in the back of your mind you are anticipating a whistle, it might throw you ever so slightly if it doesn’t come. And on these kicks, the most minute change in timing, or missing the optimal spot on the ball by even a fraction of an inch can make all the difference in the world.

  87. The kicker knew the whistle blew & rushed to get an attempt off… So, Pete Carroll didn’t cost his team anything except not having his team emotionally ready to play the last 2 games… Teams jumped out to a lead of 34-0, before his team responded.

  88. A case of testosterone/power infused blindness thinking he had more control over the outcome than he really does. See Winner Effect-by Ian Robertson.

    The players put the team in a position to win. The coach should have let the play on the field determine outcome.

  89. As a Packer fan – I do have to enjoy the sense of Karma ending the Seahawks season. Pete Carroll has shown himself to lack class and integrity from USC right through Seattle. Now as a Badger fan, I knew that Russell Wilson was all that and he will be fun to watch in the years ahead.

    As for the NFC championship game – well, the good news is that the two best teams from the NFC are playing in it.

  90. You want him to not have the practice kick……call the time out earlier. You can’t ask a guy already in motion to just stop……you are asking for injuries! Of course, That is probably what whine Carroll wanted! I got so tired this weekend of watching him and the Harbaugh brothers chewing the ears of the officials ALL GAME LONG! Give it a break already!

  91. The long snapper is not paying attention to anyone or anything except the holder he sees through his legs. If the holder gives the ready signal, the snapper is sending the ball.

    The holder has to ignore the whistle if the snap has been sent, because he can’t take a chance on mistaking something else as an official’s whistle and getting himself and/or the kicker killed by the rush, or worse, not catching the ball and letting the other team recover.

    A kicker following through on the kick is no different than a pitcher finishing the pitch when an umpire calls a late time-out… the pitcher can risk serious injury trying to abort a wind-up. The kicker could just as easily injure himself trying to abort his procedure.

    When Scott Norwood lined up for his ill-fated kick, Parcells reportedly asked injured Giants kicker Raul Allegre “Can he make that?”
    Allegre examined the situation and replied, “No.” So Parcells let the play proceed, and Allegre was apparently correct.

    If a coach thinks the opposing kicker can make it, then he should send out the block team – with the tallest long-arm best-jumping guys he has in the middle, and the fastest on the ends to rush the kicker. The icing time out just means the coach is scared.

  92. Coach only has to look in the mirror to find the guy who owns this loss for the Seagulls. Coach should have kicked a field goal and taken the guaranteed three points instead of getting stuffed on 4th & 1 and then another guaranteed three points to end the first half instead of mismanaging the clock. Despite the collosal failure of the head coach, Russell Wilson kept Seattle’s hopes alive in the 2nd half. I told my wife those six points would come back to haunt the Seagulls and as it turns out, those points cost them the win. He can whine all he wants about the practice kick, at the end of the day he is responsible for the loss.

  93. Carroll made many silly mistakes during the game, though the poor clock management on their final scoring drive…you are on the goal line with first down and a little over a minute left in the game why not use a couple of downs to burn the time to almost nothing and win it there, instead he jams it in leaving the falcons plenty of time (with all 3 time out) then uses a valuable timeout to ice the kicker-instead giving him a practice kick. I am sure Carroll feels stupid knowing that game could have been theirs.

  94. Coaches need to fake icing the kicker. Stand next to the ref and act like you’re going to call a timeout, but never do. Being iced has become part of a kickers routine, so acting like you’ll ice him but not doing so may mess up the routine.

  95. It is up to the coach to try anything they can. Sometimes the anything goes over the line. I have no problem messing with the kicker. Kickers are touchy,the time out may screw them up,you never know. That being said,the line is crossed when Carrol tried to pretend he didn’t call a time out ! That is a violation and I feel a minimum $ 100,000 fine should be imposed.

  96. Russell Wilson and the offense did everything they needed to do to win. The problem with Pete Carroll and the loss of this game had nothing to do with the kick. It was what I call the “John Fox Syndrome”. Both Denver and Seattle got into their “let’s play not to lose” defense with under 2 minutes to play and a slim lead. Play the 4x5x2 zone and give the QB enough time to unload. With that kind of defense the name should be “playing to let the other guys win”.

  97. That’s why they ice sooner so they don’t kick it and even though the whistle was obviously being blown I am sure the snapper the kick team disregarded it like they were coached and kicked it anyway. Hard to prove they heard it but they did and should be a penalty. Another thing about the kick though you can’t know he would have missed it anyway if no whistle was blown, I know for a fact he heard it and was rushing to get off a practice. No way to tell if he really would have missed it.

  98. “But it seems to me that the timeout was called before the snap was imminent. So should the league make a rule to penalize a team for practicing a field goal after the whistle is blown?? probably.”
    Why? It’s a risk-reward scenario. You elect to try to ice the kicker to get an advantage, but you also want to penalize the other team if they were to snap it a second after the whistle? Sounds to me like defenses want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to these ‘icings’. How about this, we’ll penalize an offense 5 yds if they kick a field goal after the whistle on an icing. But if the coach calls timeout right after the snap and the kick doesn’t make it, the kicking team gets 5 yds closer and a re-kick if they missed. Tit for tat. (I’m NOT advocating this by the way, just spinning some perspective on how crazy saying there should be any penalty is). But if you’re going to put a penalty on the kicking team for kicking AFTER the whistle is blown, you also need to set up a penalty for the defending team if they call the TO AFTER the snap. Otherwise every coach will be trying to ice the kicker at the last second as it’ll be to their advantage to have the kicker kick an ‘illegal’ practice kick. No way I want to see that in the game. If you don’t want the kicker to get a practice kick, call timeout BEFORE they line up, that’ll prevent it from happening. It’s really that simple.

    “Atlanta should have been flagged for delay of game, no question, especially if this very scenario had been addressed prior to the game. Bryant cheated and was rewarded with a practice kick, he adjusted and made the second. Seahawks were the better team and were robbed by a cheater and officials who didn’t do their jobs.”

    Really? Wow, that’s some sour grapes there. Show me in the rule book the rule they broke. And how was there a delay considering there was a time-out called? How did it disrupt the tempo of the game? The game was already delayed by the timeout. By the time the timeout is over and all the towel & water guys get off the field another ball has already been lined up, no delay there. This has been happening since coaches started “icing”. I’m sure if Bryant had made the 1st one and missed the 2nd one Carroll wouldn’t have been saying a word. You risk, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This one he lost.

    As to the Seahawks being the better team I’d say probably not. They were the better team for 20, maybe 25 minutes. Falcon’s were the better team the rest of the time. Had the Falcon’s done their job the whole game they wouldn’t have allowed 21 unanswered points and it wouldn’t have come down to a field goal to begin with.

    I’ll say it again, if a coach doesn’t want the kicker getting in the practice kick, DON’T call the time out to ice at the last possible second. It’s a pretty simple solution folks.

    Crying about it afterwards makes Carroll look petty and like a sore loser.

  99. Pete was a fine college coach but he did the same thing yesterday as he did in past stints as a NFL coach. Came up short.

  100. Can someone do a study on this? I’d love to see if the prevailing theory – that “icing” works on 18-year-old kids kicking for the first time in 100,000-seat college stadiums, but doesn’t work on grown men. Even small and weird-shaped grown men like Bryant.

  101. This only started to be a problem after they started letting coaches call timeout from the sideline.

    It used to be that a player would have to turnaround and ask the ref for a timeout in this situation. So basically you would have to risk one player not being able to help block the kick if you wanted to do this.

    It was also less annoying for TV viewers as you could see when the player was asking to call timeout.

  102. I think the thing to do now is to go stand next to the official as though you’re going to call a timeout. Chat him up a little and then do nothing. Maybe you’ll catch the kicker expecting the time-out and mess him up that way.

  103. Ridiculous to attempt to kill a coach over a time out. The fact is – as seen and heard on a tv feed through Ch 13, Seattle….Pete Carroll had met w/ the officials before the game to confirm that on a freezing timeout – the kicker – CANNOT kick the ball – and per the NFL rule – if they do – it is a 5 yard delay of game penalty.

    He’s doing his job…an NFL kicker makes that kick more times than not – he’s just playing the last card that he has…knowing that Bryant has the habit of kicking through the timeout – which should result in moving in back 5 yards – and causing a penalty – and getting into the kickers head.

    Nice try – but alas – the NFL kicker boots it for the win.

  104. Terrible decisions and time management by the Seahawks cost them 6 points…..

    That said, Matt Ryan’s terrible INT was the only thing that kept this game close.

  105. Using the timeout was dumb in that situation anyway. It would have been nice to have that TO in your back pocket had the Falcons just made the first kick. A good return, throw to the middle of the field and a TO and you could be attempting the game winner yourself. I’m a Dolphins fan who had jumped on Seattles bandwagon for the playoffs this year. Shame to see them go, they’re exciting to watch. If Atlanta somehow beats SF, which I don’t see happening, Tom Brady is going to tear Atlanta’s defense apart in the Super Bowl. They suck in the middle of the field which is Brady’s favorite area.

  106. Its just like any sports a missed 3 pointer that comes back to the shooter, will re-adjust and more than likely make that shot, a penalty kick wherby the goalkeeper moves before the kick, the taker may change or keep his original direction. Mulligans give the player a chance to self-correct.

  107. I say let them ice the kicker if they want. That said, what a coach should do is decide not to ice once in a while. Not doing so, when there is still a chance it could happen in the kicker’s mind, may be better than actually calling the time out. The kicker may be more affected by having to go through with a kick when he was expecting a time out to be called than actually having to kick after the time out.

  108. Not a fan of icing the kicker or the Seahawks, but I’m surprised there isn’t a rule on the books about snapping the ball in general (not just for FGs) after a timeout for two reasons. One is that the refs will then have to reset the ball for the next play which slows the game down and two what about the contact between the off. and def. lines and the natural scrum that would occur.

    Another way to look at it, imagine if the offense is allowed to snap the ball after the defense calls timeout and run the ball up the gut or if the offense calls a timeout late in the playclock and the defense is allowed to still run whatever blitz they called.

  109. Why are people complaining Atlanta should get charged for a delay of game penalty? The kick came after the time out was just called. How does one delay a game during a time out? Must be disgruntled Seattle fans/Atlanta haters.

    Also, proposals to ban icing are stupid too. What if a team only has 10 players out to defend and a coach wants to call a TO to get another body out there? If it’s your team, you’ll be pissed at the rule. Icing is part of the game. But deal with if you wait too long and a practice kick is made. Maybe make a rule that if the kicking team isn’t set like they need to be before running an offensive play and do the old snap and kick after a TO is called, then it could be a 5 yarder. This would make the coach call timeout before the kicking team is set. Once the offense is set, then all is fair if a late TO is called.

  110. Maybe Dick Sherman and Petey C will learn to keep their mouths shut from now on. How many rings you guys got so far. Zero? Open up that yapper and talk trash when you’ve got a ring Sherman. Buh Bye!

  111. Forget about the field goal, why did he decide to rush 5 men when Atlanta needed to complete 20+ yards of passes prior to the field goal. You see these teams go into prevent formations all the time to prevent deep plays but they are much more effective against the short passing game. he should have rushed only 3 down linemen and made Ryan force the ball against a short dime package.

  112. In baseball, batters try to do the same thing when they step out of the box on pitchers.

    Pitchers are taught to complete the throw to 1) prevent a balk, 2.) prevent injury that could happen if they “pull up” instead of making the pitch, and 3.) the ump may or may not call time out.

    So there is no downside to throwing a good pitch (unless you are one of those “pitch count” weenies. But in that case, you are probably not reading a football blog…)

    Carroll was trying to gain an edge with the time out, and the kicker was trying to gain an edge with the “mulligan” kick. Nothing illegal on either side, just 2 people competing for a win.

  113. I love my team. They made alot of big strides this year. Seattle hasnt been this hyped on football since our super bowl year…

    Pete carroll isnt the worst person alive, but i can see with his track record how people wouldnt like him. After yesterday, im not so sure im as crazy about him anymore though.

    He made a couple really bad calls. First one was going for it on 4th down in the first half. Then when he tried to act like he didnt call timeout at the end… thats bad.

    I love the ingenuity and progressive style coaching and coordinating… but the bad calls and the cheapness leave a little something to be desired.

  114. I agree that icing the kicker is 50/50 proposition at best. However with all of the other insane rules the league has from socks and shirts hanging out, I wouldn’t be surprised if they put in rule against kicking after a time out, or in between quarters as the ravens did against Denver.

    If the refs told Carroll prior to the game they wouldn’t allow the kicker to kick, how hard would it be for the refs to walk over to the kicker and say, if they call timeout you cannot kick the ball?

    I’m not a Seahawks fan so I’m not saying this because they lost, but so many times the refs say one thing and do another just to cover themselves. They need to admit when they screw up. For instance why did it take them so long to spot the ball prior to the half as time ran out. Why did it take 10 minutes of conferencing to spot a ball in the Denver game and then completely miss the fact mannings knee was down anyway?

    Players get hammered in the press and for silly fines. Refs need the same treatment and not continually say its a judgement call, or what were they supposed to do, tackle the FG kicker? No simply tell the kicker, you can’t kick it if we blow the play dead. Very simple.. Enough excuses for the refs. Great game either way.

  115. There is no penalty for delay of game on a time out and should never be one. There should be a delay of game on a coach that waits till the last second to call one, knowing it’s just to intimidate the kicker. These guys are PRO football kickers and they know their job. Icing one of them is poor sportmanship. If your team couldn’t stop them on the field deal with the loss and shut up

  116. The rule should be that no TO will be acknowledged by the ref after the play clock ticks under 20 seconds, also, there would be no understanding that he’ll want a TO in advance. Another words, he has until the 20 second mark of the play clock to inform the ref that he wants a TO and if the clock ticks under 19, whatever happens with the kick happens. Obviously, any overt attempt by the defesne to stop the play, like a fake injury or jumping offsides has always been a penalty.

  117. This is why Pete Carroll is so despised, whether it’s this or doing that choke sign thing when he was with the Jets. Pete the Cheat should’ve stayed in college where he belongs, but oh, I forgot, he had to desert the SC ship so as not to pay for the mess he helped create.

  118. trollingthisbridge says:

    “Coach should have kicked a field goal and taken the guaranteed three points instead of getting stuffed on 4th & 1 and then another guaranteed three points to end the first half instead of mismanaging the clock.”


  119. If I were a coach, I would never ice the kicker unless I was doing it so my people caught there breath to rush the kick.
    I mean if I’m the kicker your doing me a favor giving me more time to compose the kick in my mind and size things up and take a deep breath.

    If I have to rush I may make a big boner of a mistake.

  120. Too bad so sad, Pete, considering one of the marks in the Seahawks W column came from that “touchdown” against the Packers. I don’t think too many people are crying for your loss given your lack of class as a leader and lack of tact in the sportsmanship category. Remember how you so disgustingly signaled the touchdown after the replay and rubbed it in that you “won” the game? Totally tasteless. I’m glad your ego came back and bit you in the rear.

  121. Sure, Seahawks made several mistakes, any one of which could have decided a better outcome. Thank you Pete for the exciting season. But you got what you deserved for “icing” the kicker. It’s a classless, donkey move that should be considered a penalty equal to unsportmanlike conduct.

    A word of advice for all coaches: Never attempt to ice a kicker. If fate decides your’e going to lose, lose with dignity.

    That was was gratifying – I feel better now 🙂

  122. This icing crap needs to cease. If they don’t call timeout prior to the snap, then they don’t get a T.O.

    Coaches seem to think that when they make the “T” with their hands that time stops immediately. A timeout must be granted by the officials which can take a few seconds. It’s stupid, ineffective, unsportsmanship like and just makes me crazy!

  123. No, the single best reason not to do it is because it doesn’t work. Statistically, it doesn’t work. Why coaches continue to do it is beyond me.

  124. No one (commenters aside) has talked about how useful that timeout would have been had Pete saved it.

    6 seconds left with a timeout is enough to run a very quick play to try and get into field goal range instead of a hailmary. Either way, at least would have made it so the defense couldn’t ignore the middle of the field.

  125. There is nothing ‘classless’ about icing a kicker. If you think calling that last instant time-out will shake up the kicker and cause him to miss – do it.

  126. As a referee (certainly not at that level), they cannot walk over to a coach and tell them “we’re not going to allow a practice kick today”. If the kick is attempted, they’d better have a penalty in mind when they throw the flag and have to announce the penalty to a home crowd and to a live national TV audience. A referee cannot announce an arbitrary ruling. He’d better have the rules of football backing him up. Seriously… delay of game? Illegal procedure? And during a timeout? That would cause a riot. They’d be fearing for their lives

    I don’t agree with doing the icing time outs. But I’m about to make it a penalty if the coach wants to use his legitimate time out at that time. Whatever. His prerogative, not mine. Personally Carroll could have saved it for the next drive.

  127. Pete is so used to breaking the rules and not getting caught that it always surprising when he is forced to live within the rules.

    Seahawks can go home and wonder about what might have happened.

  128. Face it, Pete…you lost the game for Seattle. YOU lost the game. Icing the kicker very rarely works so why do the insaniacs continue to try it? Also a classy act right before the half when you blamed the time out mess at the end of the first half on your Quarterback. REAL classy.

  129. Can anyone think of an instance where a kicker has been successfully ‘iced’? More often than not it seems like it just gives the kicker on opportunity for a practice swing.

    Jason Garret once iced his own kicker, who made the first attempt and missed the second.

    Because jason Garret is a special kind of moron.

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