Martin bears no blame for doing the right thing


At a time when it’s becoming more clear that Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin was the victim of harassment, plenty of people are pointing a finger at him for the way he handled the situation.

From former players like Tony Siragusa on Tuesday’s edition of The Dan Patrick Show to current players like Giants safety Antrel Rolle, there’s a mindset in NFL circles that Martin shouldn’t have blown the whistle on teammate Richie Incognito.

“They talk about teams being a family,” Siragusa told Patrick.  “When you’re in the locker room, that’s like your home. . . .  Things are handled in there and said in there that shouldn’t be brought out to the media.  Plainly because the media and really the real world can handle a lot of those things and things that happen in that locker room. . . .  I think [Martin] should have confronted Incognito.  I think he should have went up to him and said ‘What’s your problem?’ or said something to him or kept it in house.”

It’s not simply a generational mindset.

“Richie Incognito, is he wrong?  Absolutely,” Rolle told WFAN’s Joe & Evan. ”But I think the other guy is just as much to blame because he’s allowed it to happen. . . .

“You know, at this level, you’re a man.  You’re not a little boy.  You’re not a freshman in college.  You’re a man.  So I think everything has its limits.  So there’s no way that another man is gonna make me pay for something that I choose not to pay for. . . .

“Hopefully he’s able to bounce back and recover from all that has happened and understand it, and take awareness of, you know, that you’re a grown-ass man.  You need to stand up for yourself.”

Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing.  By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.

Martin’s action weren’t just proper, they were courageous.  Those same Dolphins players who have said positive things about Incognito since his exile from the Dolphins will be inclined to blame Incognito’s absence on Martin’s reluctance to “stand up for himself.”  And it will make it harder for Martin to return to the team.

In a society where every issue seems to have two sides and there’s no subtlety or nuance or middle ground, NFL needs to make it clear to all players, coaches, broadcasters, and anyone else connected to the game that there can be no reasonable debate on this topic.  Martin did the right thing.  Indeed, Martin did the only thing he should have done.

Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly.  Given the number of American workplaces in which disgruntled employees have committed horribly violent acts and in light of the high percentage of professional football players who own guns, getting in a guy’s face away from the field no longer should be regarded as an acceptable solution to harassment.

A truly grown-ass man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth.

172 responses to “Martin bears no blame for doing the right thing

  1. While Incognito is indeed a vile, disgusting human being, I find it odd that so many former players, you know, the guys who have actually played the game and been in a locker room unlike Schefter and bloggers, seem to think this was handled wrong. Call me crazy but in a world where we seem to take every single thing that comes out of Tony Dungy’s mouth as the sacred word on coaching, it would be hypocritical to not do the same with players.

    If the earlier piece is true that he wasn’t ready for this because of where he went to school then this just furthers the point. Is it going to get better for him now because he ran away or are future teammates going to keep him at a distance because they don’t trust him?

  2. Rolle is an idiot, and goose is right behind him.
    It is very surprising that this kind of mental defective attitude survives anywhere at all.

  3. The thinking of Rolle and Siragusa is what’s wrong with our society. This whole “no snitching” is total bull and childish. And last I checked, family members don’t harrass and make death threats to other family members.

  4. If someone has a problem with me, I would hope they have the courage to step to my face and tell me.

    If they keep messing with me, I’m going to knock them out.

    That’s just me.

  5. Do we really know that Martin DIDN’T try to handle the situation in-house first? Seems like some of these guys like Rolle and Siragusa assume that he didn’t.

    …and it really isn’t very “family like” to say the absurd things that Incognito said. I’d describe it as more “psychotic.”

  6. The ONLY one who is to blame in all of this is Incognito.
    If he wants to be a jerk then that is all on him alone.
    Martin is not to be blamed for any of his actions. Only Incognito is the one to shoulder that responsibility and his behavior is not needed in any workplace environment especially one built around a team with other team-mates.

  7. If a guy says he’s going to kill me and I am not 100% sure he’s kidding, confronting him is the absolute last thing I’m going to do.

  8. So if Martin, according to Rolle’s logic, would have responded with violence that would have been the manly thing to do?

    Get a grip! The manly thing is to walk away with your dignity in tact.

  9. I agree when you say “A truly grown-ass man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth” but he didn’t do that. He threw his lunch tray and went home at which point this became news. He didn’t have to punch anyone but he could have addressed the problem, either with the bully or management.

  10. If an NFL player says he’s going to kill you…. run!

    BTW just saw a video on TMZ of Richie with his shirt off at a bar in Florida acting like a sane, rational, human being. Sure if Martin would of confronted him things would of been nothing but cordial

  11. No. Just no. You’re missing the boat completely. There are about a hundred other players on that team. Most of them seem to get along with Incognito to varying degrees. If Martin can’t, then he has to look inward. If you don’t build up a resistance to jerks, you can’t leave your own house. Or your parents house, as the case may be.

  12. Antrel Rolle hit the nail on the head. Incognito was a bit ridiculous within the confines of a ridiculous culture. Martin was wrong as a football player and a man and can’t see any team wanting him in their locker room.

  13. I think he missed one step-taking it to the coach. You take a problem in the workplace to your boss first. You don’t take it and take it and take it, then quit and release it to the media. What Richie said was wrong, but it was handled the wrong way by Jonathan.

  14. “Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly.”

    You mean, like how they turned out here?

  15. I understand what these guys are saying..but if it was such a “family”, why didn’t anyone else stand up for Martin? Noone seems to be talking about the other members of the offensive line. Weren’t they the ones who got up from the lunch table when Martin sat down? They bear some blame here also. Pouncey sounds like a real gem also..with this and the Hernandez stuff. I cannot imagine a scenario where Martin is able to come back to this team unfortunately

  16. Agree 100%

    Some people need to realize that not every man is an Alpha Male.

    Why should grown men…grown men have to fight to resolve any issues?

    No, Martin isn’t this raging alpha male with tons of testosterone flowing through his veins willing and ready to fight at a moments notice any time there is real or perceived disrespect. It’s not a requirement of the league and it’s not a requirement to be a man.

    It’s a joke to see all these people blaming Martin for not fighting someone who obviously takes joy out of intimidating others…meanwhile, kids are killing themselves and people are coming into workplaces and schools with guns and shooting others because people allowed these types of things to go on. Maybe they should go tell those families of kids who committed suicide that their kid should have just sucked it up and been a man or tell their parents they are terrible parents because they didn’t teach their kid that the way your resolve issues is violence.

  17. The behavior of Jonathan Martin reminds me of one of my favourite quotes: “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” I say that Jonathan showed great courage in living by that maxim.

  18. It sounds to me that this whole “keep it in house” thing is just a code to prevent light being shined on poor behavior. In my opinion a real man is accountable for his actions. If you are going to break someone’s balls then be accountable for it. Don’t expect the person you are harassing to protect you. You are trying to keep things hidden for a reason and it isn’t because you are just too tough and manly for the rest of the world to accept.

  19. I hate bullies and incognito is a turd. I dont judge martin for the way he handled it, but I would also have been ok with martin busting his chops. I’m so sick of this menatlity that we need to walk away from bullies and do everything we can to avoid a fight. My son got suspended for standing up to a bully after the bully hit him first. The school said he should have walked away and reported it. Thats crap. All it does is enable bullies because no one ever does anything about verbal abuse. What would people say to martin if he went to the coach and said, “incognito is picking on me.” He would be a laughing stock. I respect his decision for the way he handled it. But it wouldd be just as appropriate for Martin to knock him the heck out!

  20. Fighting back in my day was how it was done, but these days if you do so successfully it may lead to a more violent or even fatal backlash. I would be very careful about calling Martin a coward when it is clear that Incognito is unstable.

    Also, it wouldn’t surprise me to find out Philbin and Ireland WERE told by Martin previously about these specific threats and they chose to sweep them under the rug. My guess is that Ireland will throw Philbin under the bus to try to save his own skin.

  21. No room for the Alpha Male anymore in American society and especially in the work place, every thing has changed to accommodate the weak. Watch an episode of “Mad Men” and you will see how great things were.

  22. This story lacks so much context, it’s scary. I’ve played team sports my whole life, and there’s always guys who leave vulgar comments… joke about your mom… say they’re going to defecate in your mouth, etc. I don’t believe that these messages came from a place of hatred. Not even in the slightest.

    That’s not to say Richie Incognito isn’t a dufus, who probably needs slugged in the face… But there are a LOT of unanswered questions here:

    1.) What happened w/ the 12+ message exchange between Richie and Jonathan that Jeff Darlington reported on a few days ago, suggesting that Martin quote “didn’t blame his teammates for this.”

    2.) Why would Jonathan Martin save this one voicemail from back in April?? Further, why is everyone ignoring the fact that amidst all of the ignorant comments, Richie was actually calling to say it looked like Martin put on some muscle in the offseason.

    3.) Analysts all over TV are acting like they were witness to all that went on, and quick to point fingers… Newsflash: NONE OF YOU WERE THERE.

    I’m not saying either player is right or wrong here. I’m just saying, let’s stop speculating and wait until complete information comes out… from BOTH sides.

  23. Wow I just lost a ton of respect for Tony Siragusa.

    Let’s assume Goose is right and the locker room is a family – how do you let what happened to Martin happen to a member of your family? How do you embrace someone who behaves like Incognito as your brother?

    I get team cohesion is important but there are some things that are too big to be swept under the rug. This is one of those things. It took courage for Martin to do what he did knowing there would be this kind of blowback.

  24. he’s on a professional team where is the goal is to win. he only should gone to he league after his complaints were dismissed by the dolphins. by going awol first, then alerting the media, then the league, and finally the team he deprived the team and his teamates from a chance to help before things came to a head.
    The way he handled it, like a coward, has resulted in the dolphins losing both their starting left tackle and their starting right guard forever.

  25. Why not just stop it the first time it happens, or say something right then. I don’t think Incognito is right, but I sure would have questioned him the first time he said something to me and gone to another team leader as a rookie and said something. That’s how a tragic situation comes about. It builds over time.

    The reality is that most of the people writing articles about this have never played any professional sports and have no idea what it’s like to be a part of the locker room and what ever they say makes sense to the faceless brainless desk jockey’s reading PFT and thinking they understand about professional football which in turn is regurgitated at the water cooler until everyone thinks they are an expert.

    The bottom line is the players in that locker room no more than anybody else and they should have stopped it if it was really this bad. It’s hard to believe that everyone in that locker room would have supported Incognito acting the way he has been portrayed.

    I am just thankful that we have media that is concerned about the truth first and foremost and not concerned at all about hits to their blog, money or notoriety.

  26. Hey this article is saying it well!!!

    There are different level and types of threats and coming from different kind of people.

    Incog seems like a A Hernandez type and actually is buddies with Pouncie he may really be scary, so confronting someone like that may get Martin or family ending up really killed, ala Lloyd.

    He may be handling this the best way possible for him on many levels.

  27. Give me a break. Doing the “right thing” would of happened in April. I still can’t wrap my head around why all of you pinhead media members aren’t asking why did a guy quit on his team at the end of October because of a voicemail in April? Martin couldn’t hack the NFL lifestyle and all the macho BS that goes along with it. I can’t even say I blame him there but stop painting this guy as a hero. The Dolphins put him on the non-football injury list which means he wouldn’t get paid while he remains on that list. So he decided to rat out an easy target in Incognito to make it a “football related” injury. The guy is just trying to get paid, pure and simple.

  28. Doesn’t it seem like it’s going to come out that Martin did try to do the “right” thing and handle this in house and didn’t get anywhere…probably all the way up to his position coach??? Can’t wait to watch this unravel…

  29. Sure Martin could have and maybe should have stood up for himself. However no one knows the true dynamic of that locker room and the pressures people (not only Incognito) applied(it seemed to be pretty dysfunctional, even by NFL standards).

    It should NEVER have gone so far. NFL teams are in the business of winning, which means you do not create distractions, which means not creating distractions like this by pushing someone over the edge.

    The real truth is that the hazing that is considered culture in the NFL would be grounds for immediate termination in ANY other business. The players (current and former) speak of being professionals and yet defend the backward hazing culture.

  30. Thomas Jones would’ve busted somebody in the mouth, there would have been one story in the media about it, and the whole thing would have been over… Just sayin’, there was a quicker way to resolve this issue, and while physical violence “doesn’t solve anything” in real life, it does in a sport that’s modeled after war.

  31. Being a tattle-tale is courageous? What is the world coming to? He didn’t have to walk up to Incognito and punch him in the face to stand up for himself. All he had to do was say “No, I’m not gonna pay for it.”

    Running away and telling on him is not courageous, not in this context. Or most.

  32. “Martin bears no blame.” However, MEATHEADS like TS and AR actually BLAME him, and The Dolphins have yet to say if Martin will be back!!

  33. Everyone’s wired different. Some people are more sensitive than others. For anyone to tell Martin how he should have handled the situation is simply wrong.

  34. These guys who blame Martin are doing nothing but perpetuating the problem! Blame the victim is no defense. There is pranks…. then there is being criminally assaulting. Incognito is the latter! Guys in the NFL have complained about this guy being dirty for years, he bad been kicked off multiple teams, from college through now, and yet Martin is the problem. Marion had watched as Incognito has done whatever he had wanted for years and NEVER had to answer for any of it! Well, now he does. GOOD FOR MARTIN! Any one who days otherwise is just trying to field a better team at all costs!

  35. Just my opinion, but while I do think what Richie said/did was completely wrong and out-of-line, at some point, Martin bears some responsibility to mention this issue someone and get help. You can’t just ignore problems and hope they go away… (or worse, as it did in this case, reach the tipping point and boil over)

    Adam Schefter just reported that Martin never brought any of this to Joe Philbin’s attention, and multiple Dolphin players, including ones from both this year’s and last year’s team have mentioned that Martin never brought any accusations up to them. To me, it would make more sense to try and work the issues out by communicating them reasonably rather than feeding information to the national media and blindsiding a large group of people involved. In order for an issue to be resolved, the issue needs to be made aware of… I do find it odd that this story seems to be getting much more press than the lineman next to these two who might be involved in a gun-running scheme with an alleged murderer…

    At the end of the day, it’s just a big ol’ mess of situation that doesn’t make anyone look good really, although the good news is that no one is physically hurt (i.e. the Hernandez case). As one of my favorite Guns N’ Roses songs once quoted from a movie, “What we’ve got here is, failure, to communicate…”

    I for one can’t wait to get back to football on the field.

  36. @garrygates

    1 – Supposedly, all the messages have been handed over to the investigators.

    2 – Just because it was the only voicemail that was released to the media doesn’t mean it was the only voicemail saved.

    3 – Totally agree.

  37. Even stipulating that Incognito is an ahole, unstable, and perhaps a racist, Martin has handled this poorly. Having his agent send the voicemail and texts to the media doesn’t help. He should try standing up for himself to Incognito to begin with. Dropping his tray in the cafeteria is a junior high school move. So far all that’s been shown by this is that Incognito is a jerk and Martin is soft. Most players would rightly rather have an effective jerk than an ineffective softy on their team. Probably the QB most of all and Martin has been terrible in pass protection this season. I’ll wait for the therapeutic types to say that Martin has been too emotionally distressed to take proper angles.

  38. “you don’t go to the mat with a crazy man”
    always good advice in dealing with people who have shown themselves to be irrational and capable of rather extreme acts of violence or sabotage.
    Martin did the right thing to walk away. Remeber that Incognito was a defacto “team leader” put in place by management, and said “team leader” would have likely been backed up by the coaching staff when put against the word of a “soft rookie”.
    This case also raises the question of another recent story regarding an NFL player who became disgusted with the game after repeated requests for money from his family. It is not unreasonable to ask the question as to whether some of those “requests” may have been extortion attempts by fellow players.

  39. Martin could have slugged Incognito, but then what? From all accounts Richie is a psycho, he would get retribution and I’m sure he had a goon squad that followed him around. But now, Richie got what was coming to him, a ticket off the team and maybe out of the league. Martin probably didn’t win any of the battles, but he won the war.

    Martin 1 – Incognito 0

  40. Its interesting because if you watch older episodes of “Hard Knocks” it appears that Tony Siragusa can be considered a little more toned down version of a bully like Incognito. Obviously, the first time Martin left the team it should have been handled in house. Months later and it is still going on?? What else is the guy supposed to do. Obviously Martin isnt the kind of “man” who feels like he can defend himself against a guy like Richie so what was he supposed to do? This is the definition of bullying.

  41. garrygates says:
    Nov 5, 2013 2:43 PM

    “I’m not saying either player is right or wrong here. I’m just saying, let’s stop speculating and wait until complete information comes out… from BOTH sides.”

    I absolutely agree. There is such a seeming rush to rush to judgement. All issues are black and white and us vs them. Showing the intelligence to reserve judgement is somehow viewed as weak or unwilling to take a stand.

    It probably isn’t that people have changed much – they probably always rushed to judgement but they didn’t have mediums to blurt everything out immediately.

  42. If Martin had responded to Incognito the way so many people insist he should have, then the headline would be “Jonathan Martin suspended for punching out teammate,” and all the abuse Incognito has heaped on him to provoke it would be drowned out by that. Incognito would certainly not change; as far as everyone else would be concerned, he would be the victim in all this. And he certainly wouldn’t stop abusing his teammates. If anything, he would be emboldened to abuse them further, because the one time he pushed someone too far, he got the sympathy.

    Instead, the spotlight is on the guy doing the abusing. It’s better for everyone this way, especially if there are more players being abused that we haven’t heard about.

  43. Look Martin is the son of two lawyers from what I understand. Naturally his first thought is going to be handling it this way through legal channels and not through punching someone in the mouth.
    I thik the right thing for the Fins to do, besides what they’ve done with Incognito is to see if they can trade Martin to a team of his choice if he wants to continue his football career. I am big hater of “everyone gets a trophy let’s cater to the lowest common denominator” mentality that things have become, but this behavior by Incognito seems to be clearly over the line andI don’t think either Martin or his Fins teamamtes couild be comfortable being cohesive again .

    I’ve worked in all male environments that have a lot of woofing and x rated insults going on and never have I heard anything close to this. I doubt Martin would have saved that voicemail if he thought Incognito was joking.

  44. Richie is clearly in the wrong here , Martin is not.

    If you are a fan of the Miami Dolphins you can not be happy with how Martin handled this.

    As a offensive lineman you have to be the meanest person on the field , you have to have the mentality to hit first ask questions later. If you are a fan then you have to question Martin’s toughness , a grown man stole his lunch money and he went and told on him instead of sticking up for himself. That sounds bad but that’s how it will be looked at. He will be taunted by D-lineman the rest of his career if he has one.
    Martin is absolutely the victim here but most other O-lineman in his shoes would have taken a baseball bat to Richie’s head for what he was doing.

  45. garrygates says: Nov 5, 2013 2:43 PM
    3.) Analysts all over TV are acting like they were witness to all that went on, and quick to point fingers
    The other issue is that many TV analysts have done a quick pivot flip-flop. Originally they were running with the story that Martin is mentally ill and left the team to deal with an illness.

    Martin decided to kill those stories (which the Dolphins were happy to spread) by coming forward with hard evidence of bad behavior.

    And the bottom line is … the Dolphins o-line has been terrible. The meatheads standing behind Incognito can’t defend giving up 35 sacks in 8 games (and Incognito was the leader of that o-line).

    And I’m not surprised Siragusa came out defending Incognito — Siragusa is the guy who (via an arm bar take down) ended Rich Gannon’s career and then called Gannon soft.

  46. I’m wondering when Tony Siragusa (and his opinions) were even somewhat relevant. Hey, Tony, your willingness to sweep this incident under the rug makes me wonder about YOUR locker room antics, big guy. Maybe some enterprising reporter might ask a few questions, hm?

    Incognito’s behavior would have ensured immediate firing in any other workplace than the NFL. He would have also been criminally prosecuted; he committed extortion.

    In the meantime, it’ll be interesting to see if the Ginger Hammer postpones his latest tee time and actually expends some effort to discover if this is a widespread problem throughout the league. After Mike Freeman’s column a few days ago, I’m betting it is.

  47. steverolley says: Nov 5, 2013 2:38 PM

    BTW just saw a video on TMZ of Richie with his shirt off at a bar in Florida acting like a sane, rational, human being.

    Thanks for tip off. I just watched the video and it was pretty funny. TMZ is trying to portray this as a racist rant, but you can see Pouncey is there having fun with him. I don’t think this is anything but your standard meathead activity. Ha.

  48. Jeff Ireland felt it was ok to ask things of Dez Bryant like “Is your mom a prostitute?”. It’s not too difficult to imagine this kind of cavalier attitude was rampant throughout the locker room. It wouldnt surprise me inthe slightest that Martin went to the GM/HC, and was ignored or dismissed.

    If the GM asks questions like that, unapologetically, what makes you think they would take seriously the complaint of a 2nd year player?

  49. I’m sorry, but following your own logic, there are innumerable things Martin could have done:

    1. talk to Richie like a man back in April
    2. talk to other members of the OL if 1 didn’t seem possible or productive
    3. talk to his line coach
    4. talk to the head coach
    5. file a grievance with the NFL if 1-4 prove impossible or unfruitful

    (Maybe some of these did happen, but there has been absolutely zero reporting to indicate that it did)

    … Certainly, it doesn’t seem like it was the right thing to wait 7 months, walk out on the team when playing a relatively harmless prank as a unit (one he played a part in himself previously), make initial statements that didn’t provide any of these details, and then wait several days to begin leaking all sorts of information to the press, blindsiding everyone on the team.

  50. This talk about Martin being soft or weak is absolute nonsense. This is like the old “you shouldn’t have been wearing that outfit if you didn’t want to be raped” argument. I hope he’s compensated — in court if necessary.

  51. So, what should he have done? Hit Incognito…that makes him no better than the scum that was harassing him. And with the likes of Hernandez sitting in jail accused of murder, I wouldn’t discount threats against my life and those of my family. Easy for players who didn’t take this kind of abuse to say what he should have done…too, Philbin should have known this was happening.

  52. I think there’s still more to the story here, but philosophically I agree that violence should be a last resort. If you have a problem with someone at work and talking to them/trying to get them to stop doesn’t work, the next step is to take it to management, file a complaint etc.

  53. Let’s say Martin “stands up” for himself throws a punch that doesn’t quite land. Incognito decides to body slam him in the cafeteria before their teammates can break it up. Martin ends up with a separated shoulder out for at least half the season with pending discipline from the team and the league. Incognito claims self defense and gets sent to counseling and loses a few game checks. Martin is eventually cut from the roster when it’s most beneficial for the Dolphin front office.

    At least he stood up “like a man.”

  54. Can we just leave the college frat boy BS in college and if you’re a “grown ass man” then act like it when you get to the professional level.

  55. “Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing…”

    I’m pretty certain that they understand the issue better than you do. Football is a gladiator sport. Running home to mom and dad is a bad look for any grown man, let alone an NFL offensive lineman.

  56. Punching someone in the face is assault and a crime. Martins mother is an attorney who raised a young man who graduated from top schools. He did what many rational people would do when confronted with a raving loonatic, he walk away.

  57. We want the people we interact with on a daily basis to be like J. Martin. We want guys like Richie battling on the line.

  58. I think what this basically comes down to is two people who couldn’t be more opposite were forced to work side-by-side together and Martin just finally had enough and broke. I think most people in all walks of life have had to work next to people they couldn’t stand. I know I have.

  59. I was always afraid to confront the bully in high school because I they were unstable and I didn’t know what they were capable of. I also thought his friends might come after me if I slugged him and that I could get in trouble as well.

    The Dolphins locker room sounds like my high school and almost every high school where the jocks go after and bully the smart kids and the band people. The jocks are treated like Gods in high school while the smart people are looked upon as nerds. The problem for the Dolphins is that this isn’t high school. These are supposed to be mature adults in a professional environment. Apparently, Incognito still has a lot of growing up to do. The locker room is no place for him right now. He belongs in some halfway house for people with mental issues.

  60. I don’t blame Martin and do blame Incognito. That said, is there anybody on either side of the argument who wouldn’t have understood had Martin beat the crap out of Incognito? Sort of like Marty McFly taking out Biff in Back To The Future? Imagine Incognito being scared out of bullying while washing Martin’s car tires.
    The old fashioned way of confronting bullies, while not the only way of handling it, does still work pretty well

  61. “The real truth is that the hazing that is considered culture in the NFL would be grounds for immediate termination in ANY other business. The players (current and former) speak of being professionals and yet defend the backward hazing culture.”

    Assault and battery in the workplace would also be grounds for immediate termination in any other business … but that is the business of football.

  62. This is the America we have created for ourselves. No accountability for anything. Had Incognito not done any of the things he apparently did, this conversation isnt happening. By saying Martin “handled it wrong” you are basically giving Incognito a pass on what he did, allowing him to not be accountable. You make Martin the guy in the wrong, for gasp, handling the situation like an adult and not making it a gang war.

    It is like when a burglar breaks into a house, and gets shot by the homeowner. Then the family of said burglar sues (and wins) the homeowner. When the reality is, had the burglar not been a scum bag POS he wouldnt have been in the house, and thus wouldnt have gotten shot. This is the same mentality we are seeing here.

    In the words of Hillary, “What difference does it make?!?!?”. Seriously, what does it matter. Martin handled the situation the way Martin felt he needed to address it. It doesnt matter whether you agree or not. The issue shouldnt be “Did Martin handle it the right way”, the issue should be “How do we prevent the next Incognito situation”.

  63. kd75 says:Nov 5, 2013 2:34 PM

    If someone has a problem with me, I would hope they have the courage to step to my face and tell me.

    If they keep messing with me, I’m going to knock them out.

    That’s just me.


    Haha yeah, Im sure you would say the same thing to Incognito in person, then follow up on your promise…. Right.

  64. So a face-to-face confrontation is out of the question because a number of NFL players have guns and Incognito might have used one to shoot Martin? Say whaaa?

    You conclude by referring to NFL players as meatheads and provoke civility, which is all well and good, but the fact remains this is indeed a grown *ss man who makes millions of dollars to play a game that requires him to manhandle the guy across from him. I fear this whole saga is only going to dilute the real issue of bullying that affects school-aged kids that aren’t 6-5 300+ pounds.

    One last point re: Siragusa’s comment about keeping it in house. I have to agree in that none of the coaches claimed to know of this issue until Martin left the team. Doesn’t Martin have some responsibility to handle it at least with the coaches if not Incognito himself? After all it is a team game and I doubt all 52 players were ganging up on the guy. What if his backup had whiffed on a block and Tannehill wound up with some season- or career-threatening injury because Martin walked out on his team

  65. Didn’t Penn State “keep it in-house”?

    Rolle, Siragusa, and everyone else that thinks along those lines are basically backing what the Penn State administration did.

  66. Everyone is wired a little differently. I get the whole nasty, confrontational element that some people think leads to being a good football player. I am guessing that Martin would respond better to support from the organization and his teammates. If he had been given that support they would probably have been rewarded with a loyal and accomplished player. All they have now is a wasted second round pick. Stupid all the way around.

  67. Since when did Siragusa become a prophet of wisdom? He’s cut from the same dirty-player, loudmouth, meathead cloth as Incognito…

    Hope Incognito doesnt get ‘bullied’ when he’s on the unemployment line!! This low-life doesnt deserve the kind of money he has been making..

  68. He deserves no blame. Zero. However, “courageous”? You’re pandering is comical. There was nothing courageous about sitting on text messages like those for months, maybe a year. Richie Incognito is the only one in the wrong here. But those close to Martin should not pat him on the back for his decisions. Encourage the behavior, expect the behavior. The “courageous” decision was to confront the situation when it happened. Not necessarily physically (although he would have been perfectly justified), but at least bring it to the Dolphins attention. Mike, have the courage to not insult your readers. Thank You

  69. A “grown ass man” would hit the other man in the mouth. This isn’t your regular office dust up of words. He should have handled it with the same physicality that got him there. Incognito’s a bum…but Martin is a rat. Not sure there’s a right party in this one.

  70. I’m about 175lbs, but I grew up in a rough and tumble environment, and at my weight I would have made Incognito cry for mama if he screw around with me. My heart goes out to Martin, but some players aren’t brought up in uncivilized environments and thus find it odd that people behave that way. Dolphins would do well by bringing this young man back and make him feel welcome.

  71. Just because your about 300 LBS. AND 6’3 doesn’t mean your a man it means your big and doesn’t mean you can’t be bullied. I keep hearing, it’s no big deal, it’s gone on for years, everyone blowing this out of proportion. The NFL is a place of work, this is at least harassment if not extortion.
    How do we as adults say stop bullying to our children and look the other way, because this is gone on for years. When is enough enough?
    I listen to Mike Golic the other day on Mike and Mike, he was the same as Tony and Antrel. They are fine with this, but no one deserves to be treated this way. Im sorry to say that the only way to handle a bully is with a beat down, but thats how I stopped getting bullied. Im not proud of it, but thats what it took and I stopped the bullying. Good luck to you Jonathan Martin, Im sure Jesus would be more proud of the way you handled it than the way I did.

  72. Right on Siragusa. You take care of this inside the locker room. Finally some guys who have actually strapped on a jock in a NFL locker room letting the rest of us know how this works in their office.

  73. This is getting rediculous. The voice mail is from april and taken completely out of context.

    Either get all the information or stop with these fluff posts making martin the hero when he’s in fact a coward. If you don’t have thick skin you don’t belong playing organized sports past age 10.

    You media guys have no idea what its like to be in a locker room or the kind trash talking that goes on between teammates and opponents.

    The nfl pays players stupid amounts of money to sack up and be a man. If you can’t handle the heat get out of the kitchen

  74. “Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.

    Martin’s action weren’t just proper, they were courageous.”
    How very “PC” of you.

    He didn’t “stand up for himself”. He ran to mommy (the NFLPA) for protection.

  75. “Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.”

    No. Martin is having someone else stand up for himself.
    Also did Icognito ever even attempt to harm Martin? No reports of that happening. The worst they have is asking/demanding 15k for a trip.
    I was listening in to SVP and Russilo the other day and how they were texting to a former Dolphins player who was black, that thats how Incognito is, he jokes hard, and Martin is too soft.

  76. It’s the same situation as being a firefighter. If something happens in-house between two guys, you squash it amongst each other. You don’t get your Lieutenant involved. You don’t get your Captain involved. And you most certainly don’t get your Chief involved. The situation in Miami should have been taken care of in the same manner. The media loves to blow stuff out of proportion and that’s what’s happening here.

  77. All the details of this will never come to light. What has been reported is that Martin talked to coaches in March. Apparently the problem was not taken care of by the coaches if Martin was receiving messages in April. This was an approved culture in the Miami locker room. When Philin says that he talked to Martin all last week, I wonder what the tone of those conversations was.

    There is another thing to consider here. IF Martin came from a violent neighborhood, that might have influenced him not to be violent or to talk back to a “bully” (abuser and extortionists) when he threaten his family or his life.

  78. You are misrepresenting what they are saying and thus changing the issue. Martin is the victim. He also failed to handle the problem the right way. Why wait so long? (vile stuff was back in April) Why not inform the coaches of the specific issues? He took part in the lunchroom table stuff the week prior and didn’t seem to have a problem. It was done to him the next week and he flipped out and left. Told the coaches he needed time and he doesn’t have a problem with anybody. Then 2 days later his “camp” brought out 6 month old messages to justify his actions. Incognito was dead wrong for the messages but Martin’s failure to handle things properly created the circus we all are witnessing. He is a victim but he is far from blameless. He should have stood up for himself then or gone to the coaches with the messages back when he got them. He snapped over a prank he had done himself the week prior, not the messages. Those only came out when his mental stability was called into question. Had he handled this the right way, Incognito would have been gone preseason (another lineman would have been signed) and Martin would not have abandoned his team 2 days before a crucial game

  79. Regardless what Siragusa or Rolle think should have or should not have happened, they are on the same boat as everyone else here, putting their two cents and offering their “I think’s”. The only difference is they live in the same world as Martin and Incognito does and we don’t.

    But the issue really is not just how the harrassment took place or how the harassed handled himself. The more important issue is that the harrassment happened and seemingly continued to happen.

    Yes, Martin should have confronted him or anyone that may have harrassed him. But the fact that he didn’t and chose to walk away instead (albeit bringing the whole matter into light) tells us that he did not want to do so.

    We can go back and forth to rehash the incidents as it happened, but the story seems simple. A pro player who happens to be bi-racial was harrassed by a teammate to the point that he felt that the environment was not safe so he left. Sounds like a very rational way of handling things, from a victims perspective, to me.

  80. Maybe Martin’s just a little bit smarter than people are giving him credit for. Maybe he really wanted to stick it to Incognito and ruin his career as revenge. The only way to do that would be to cause the scene that he’s caused.

  81. So, threatening to KILL your teammate and harm is family is commonplace? And part of the hazing process? No wonder players like Tony, Rolle, and other knuckleheads want to keep it ‘in house’. If this was an average workplace and a coworker threatened your life, I find it hard to believe your fellow coworkers would call it hazing, and tell you to keep it to yourself. The NFL players’ logic is such BS!

  82. Martin definitely shouldn’t be blamed for the situation the Dolphins find themselves in, but I feel “doing nothing for a year-and-a-half until one day you quit your job” isn’t the right way to handle anything. I’m definitely not one of the meatheads saying he should have knocked out Incognito or anything, but there are a million things you can do without a) resorting to violence, or b) doing nothing.

    If anyone should be blamed for it, it should be Incognito, the team’s veterans, and the coaching staff. There’s obviously a reason Incognito has been on 4 different teams, and I’d bet Martin isn’t the first guy he’s pulled this stuff on. I wonder how many of his former teammates decided to deal with him? Obviously not by fighting him or quitting the team.

  83. Rolle is VERY wrong for saying the other guy is as much to blame ” because he allowed it to happen ” Does Rolle know what went on? None of us knows what happened. As far as the ” family ” thing, a good family takes care of this before it gets out of hand. For that Philbin and his staff have to take the blame.

  84. Based on the early reports I would have to say Martin has acted in the correct way. Incognito was getting after Martin for months because he refused to pay for Incognito Vagas trip or dinner. So he did stand up to Incognito and Incognito’s childish mind decided it was best to handle the situation by bullying. There is 2 options left for Martin 1) get into a fist fight or 2) walk away. It is obvious he chose option 2 which is what any mature intelligent individual would take. Martin walked away when he refused to pay a high price and Incognito wouldnt let up. It is obvious to me that the coaching staff turned a blind eye to the situation

  85. Is Incognito wrong, absolutely, no question about it, that message crossed many lines! Should Martin have handled this in April when the incident happened, also absolutely, thats what men do!
    How did Incognito and Martin go through a whole camp and 1/2 the season and nothing came of it from Martin until the Fins traded for McKinnie and Martin lost his spot? The very prank that set him off in the lunchroom was one that Martin played on another linemen the week before! This wreaks of a spoiled kids response to rejection, imho.
    It appears to me that Martin couldn’t handle the pressure that was on him to take over the Jake Longs LT spot and when he failed and the fins traded for McKinnie he took his ball and ran home. To hold on to a message from 7 months ago for future use when he did nothing to fix the problem from the start looks premeditated. Depending on the investigation, if Martin chose to not confront RI from the start and this is the resulting firestorm, he has done the Dolphin team and fans a grave injustice.

  86. In most every situation, it’s hard to respect a tattletale (so to speak) – but in this instance, Martin deserves a break. If it led to him forking out 15 large for other guys to drink Dom and knock down lobsters – that’s way over the line.

  87. There is so much we don’t know but it doesn’t seem to slow down those that want Philbin and Ireland fired so here we go.

    Until all the facts come out just a few thoughts.

    How do we know Philbin found out about this last spring?

    Why didn’t Martin raise a stink? Do you honestly think that this was covered up by 53 players on the current roster? By all of those players in camp before being cut? By all the coaches, trainers, locker room attendants, front office personnel etc?

    Can we actually here all the tapes rather than get transcripts from the Martin family and agent?

    Point here being that those that are judge, jury and executioner need to step back, take a breath and let this play out.

    Then if Ireland, Philbin or whomever lied then you can cut them loose ans bury them on sites like ths one.

  88. The media loves to paint us as a society of courageous victims & heroes!!

    No doubt Incognito is a DB, but given that all the facts about this are not out yet I would say that most of what has been opined about what has been incompletely reported so far about this issue is premature!

    Who really knows yet what Martin did or didn’t do & when? We’re at mid-season so this has been going on for some time in the locker room so a lot of things still may come out….

    I’ll hold my judgement till then.

    Hopefully it will come out that Martin confronted the situation to no avail and he was forced to take his only last option…

  89. He had no reason to expect a resolution within the same place that he was able to be bullied. “Handling it within the family” is code for “nothing’s going to be done”.

  90. Looks like there’s a lot of j. Martin type of guys posting. Man up and stop being so soft this is football the most violent sport in the world. There are already too many cream puffs in this country now there invading football

  91. I agree with this article 100%. Moreso, I don’t understand why everyone is so convinced that Martin was a “tattletale” or similar.

    From my review of the events, Martin took himself out of the situation for health reasons and did not immediately go to the media/public at all.

    It wasn’t until Sunday morning when :

    A) the Dolphin’s themselves began a PR campaign saying they weren’t aware of any “bullying” behavior and effectively threw Martin under the bus and

    B) Incognito went on a twitter rant proclaiming his innocence.

    That some details actually hit the press; ie when Martin/his advisors went public. And at that point what option did they have? IMHO, Martin’s hand was forced by horrible PR moves by both the Dolphins and Incognito.

  92. Martin is PAID to push people around. He earns a living physically BEATING another man. But he did the right thing by not swinging on Incognito? C’mon MAN!!! I’m not buying it.

    Yes Incognito is a d-bag. A giant d-bag.

    BUT, Martin should’ve whooped him instead of acting like going home to sulk.

  93. What Incognito allegedly did or said, definitely crossed lines – the severity depend on your train of thought. But I don’t understand putting all this praise on Martin.
    During this hazing/bullying, instead of going to management, his agent, the coach, whomever after those messages or that trip – he said nothing. For at least this year – if not part or all of last year too (depending which incident)

    Not many grown men on this forum would put up with paying out $1500 let alone $15,000 for other employee’s fun without telling SOMEONE in authority “Hey Coach, this ain’t fair what they’re asking!” or if he couldn’t come to talk to any Dolphins reps “Hey Mr. Agent, you’re supposed to have my back – I don’t want to pay for that trip!”

    Incognito’s messages crossed lines, but the shielded Martin was probably not used to the crass, harder edged, not from upper crust colleges that the NFL is mostly made up of. The majority of those guys conduct themselves accordingly, but they all have that nasty streak needed to be a top level competitor and the ability to shrug off bad plays, bad press and trash talking.

    Martin was right to stand up for himself.
    But the way he’s gone about it was not done in the best way for either himself, the franchise or the team.

  94. I’ll bet right now that Richie Incognito wished that issue and everything surrounding it was…Incognito. The whole situation is kinda oxymoron.

  95. Lawyers and HR departments and Media are ruining everything cool about American sports.

    Crooked Officials in the NBA
    Steroids in baseball
    Every bad light you can paint the NFL in is being covered daily.

    Just leave us to watch our sports when we get home.

  96. Incognito bears all of the blame. He is the one who didn’t know when to stop, and the meaning of the word “teammate”. When you have the same jersey on you are supposed to have each others back.

    Martin should have gone to Incognito directly, and then to coaches. If he couldn’t get anywhere then to the NFLPA/NFL. Not sure if he went to Incognito directly, pretty sure he didn’t go to coaches. Maybe the coaches already knew what was going on and turned the other way.

  97. siragusa and rolle are both assuming that martin didn’t go up to incognito or try to handle the situation. people cannot assume what happened behind the scenes because we really don’t know. also, if martin did not confront incognito that is not a problem, different people handle circumstances differently. totally ignorant and premature of siragusa and rolle assuming things if you ask me.

  98. Presenting evidence from APRIL in October when your team is doing whatever the hell it can to climb out of a 3-4 hole is horse-crap.

    If it was a problem then, it should have been handled then.

    Are we 100% certain that Incognito and Martin didn’t have a friendly relationship? Why do I see pictures of them together all over the internet? Sure doesn’t look like there was bad blood.

    Martin was by far the weakest link on the offensive line but at the same time had far greater potential. I think this is a case where avenues of motivation went horribly wrong.

    I’ve played team sports and been in locker rooms. This will be unpopular, and I can’t believe I’m even saying it, but I agree with Chad Johnson, Siragusa, Rolle, Merriman, Terrell Davis, etc. They’ve all come out and said one way or another that this DEFINITELY should have been handled better by Martin.

    I’m not saying Incognito’s behavior is excused, but it sure seems like he’s got more guys on his side from that locker room than Martin does. That speaks volumes to me.

  99. huhsj says: Nov 5, 2013 2:37 PM

    I agree when you say “A truly grown-ass man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth” but he didn’t do that. He threw his lunch tray and went home at which point this became news. He didn’t have to punch anyone but he could have addressed the problem, either with the bully or management.

    I believe he did go to management… months ago. And management did nothing to address the situation, or thought it would just go away on its own. That is how workplace violence/harassment/bullying works. People make excuses for the ignorant jack-hole who is the problem because it’s harder to stand up and tell them they’re being a jerk.

  100. Martin deserves more credit than he’s been getting. Civilized people WALK AWAY FROM A CONFRONTATION. That said, I’m not as civilized as him so I would have popped him one. The most effective way to stop a bully in my experience has always been to step up to them.

  101. Martin kept this “in house” for a year and nothing changed. How much longer did you expect him to keep it “in the family?”

    Time to blow that dysfunctional family to pieces. They didn’t protect Martin, and Martin chose the only rational recourse left to him.

  102. These NFL players must be crazy talking about blowing the whistle on another player. So you saying it’s ok to treat another NFL colleague like a punk? Siragusa better stick to man caves and men’s diaper commercials because if that was your child being treated that way, your blood pressure would hit the ceiling. It’s not the first time this fool been in trouble with his temper!

  103. He should have popped incognito in his damn mouth. I know if someone called my phone with that b.s. Im not filing a complaint or doing any of the other crap that Florio said. If youre a snitch crybaby that cant handle yourself thats what u do. And thats what Martin did. Not the right thing, the scared thing

  104. IIRC…….Martin reportedly “blew up” duirng lunch and left the facility.

    We didn’t hear anything from Martin for a short time until Dolphins players started leaking to the press that Martin had “mental problems” and was getting help.

    Martin… least from my POV…..didn’t start the mud slinging in the press. It was started by other players (and my guess would be someone who was acting Incognito).

  105. You morons who say Martin is soft need to grow up. He was in an impossible situation. The Dolphins had placed Incognito on their leadership council! This was the type of “leadership” they liked. You can’t tell me they didn’t see something of what was going on. They chose to ignore it and were supporting Incognito right up until proof surfaced. Martin was in a difficult situation. Say something and you will probably get ignored and thought of as soft, don’t say anything and the abuse continues. He finally had had enough. I am proud of him. Incognito is a POS.

  106. “Here’s the point that guys like Siragusa and Rolle (and many others) are missing. By following the channels that the league has put in place, Martin did stand up for himself.”

    Absolutely correct! There is no benefit in confronting the aggressor and risking having an escalation of a situation where the aggressor has already demonstrated how far, and how low, he will go. His mind is already made up – he doesn’t like Martin and has no qualms about showing him this fact. And, since Incognito has already used racial slurs and has made threats, there’s only one way it would go in a confrontation, from bad to worse. How far would Incognito go? Who knows, but it could certainly be much more than what he’s already done, which is already way over the line.

    From my own personal experience, it is far better to let the authorities handle the situation, for the physical well-being and for the emotional and psychological well-being. To engage oneself in a confrontational situation risks lowering oneself to the same level of the aggressor and you hurt yourself. You relieve yourself of a major amount of stress by reporting the situation to the appropriate authorities and letting them handle the situation properly. That gives you your peace of mind.

  107. dolphindubs says: Nov 5, 2013 3:19 PM

    Didn’t Penn State “keep it in-house”?

    Rolle, Siragusa, and everyone else that thinks along those lines are basically backing what the Penn State administration did.

    right, because child sex abuse scandals and two grown men having beef are the same thing

  108. Incognito is a POS but if you are one of the other 31 GM’s in the league, do you want Martin on your team? He essentially walked away from the team because he was bullied. What happens when your team goes on a 5 game losing streak or his performance sprials? Does he walk away or dig in? I don’t know but based on what he just did, I would fear he would walk away.

  109. Ya we don’t know what he tried. He may have tried to laugh it off, he may have tried to deflect it he may have tried to find some support from the players around him.

    We know what worked.

    Saragusa is reflecting his own issues with his opinion, it says nothing about Martin really.

  110. Proper response from Martin would have been:

    “Sure. I’ll give you $15,000. But you have to get on your knees, hold your nose up, and sing ‘I’m a little piggy / here’s my snout / Oink, oink, oink / oink, oink, oink’ and dance around while you do it. What are you going to do? Jump me for $15,000? Good luck with that.”

  111. “I believe he did go to management… months ago. And management did nothing to address the situation, or thought it would just go away on its own.”

    You are making several inferences where there is no evidence to base that speculation on.

    Yes, Martin approached the staff about his difficulties.

    No, they did not do nothing; they allowed him several days away from OTAs at the very least. We know nothing about what Martin said, the coaches said back, or what was done by anyone, or what intervened since that time 7 months ago.

    We also know that the coaching staff has been unambiguous about saying there was no specific mention of Richie Incognitio or of the voicemail incident.

    So… if anything, we have a picture of a guy who most likely said little about the specifics known now but more likely expressed his indecision or unhappiness being an NFL player, which has been reported and observed numerous times over the last 1.5+ years. And after a few days off, he came back and was given the opportunity to win the LT position and did so.

  112. praetorian12 says:
    Nov 5, 2013 4:16 PM
    Martin kept this “in house” for a year and nothing changed. How much longer did you expect him to keep it “in the family?”

    Time to blow that dysfunctional family to pieces. They didn’t protect Martin, and Martin chose the only rational recourse left to him.


    And you know this how? Or are you just making an assumption?

  113. What channels did he go through? I’m serious, can someone answer that? My understanding was he got up from a cafeteria table, left, and never came back. And that he never spoke with the coaches, GM, or owner. I’m not clear why what he did is being called proper or courageous. It doesn’t seem like he went through any channels. I must be missing part of the story.

  114. There doesn’t seem to be a clear story on if Martin said anything to Dolphins management or teammates before leaving the team. If he didn’t go to anyone, then how can he be labeled courageous? I think that there is this amazing shock and outrage that this has happened is preposterous. This has been going on for years, and people like Tom Jackson, Cris Carter and Mike Ditka feigning shock is hypocritical. Should anyone be hazed to the point their mental well-being suffers? No friggin way. But to suffer in silence, then abruptly leave and only then disclose bad treatment (if that’s what happened) does nothing to make him a hero.

  115. Funny how all the armchair qbs here are acting like they know what goes on in locker rooms, yet when an actual players have an opinion n what they seen and experienced they are wrong or morons etc…..

  116. Martin did go to the coach, he did go to management, he did try to keep it in house. This is why he started keeping evidence. He is smart and his parents are attorneys, that text from incognito is a result of trying to talk to the coach, asst coach and incognito at same time. Martin is going to win an 8 figure lawsuit and a lot of coaches will be gone next year. He has all the evidence to light up that organization. He has a protective order and will get incognito criminally with extortion. read between the lines, the dolphins are scared as heck, that’s why the nfl has moved in. Tell me what does it take to throw a probowler off the team.

  117. Interesting stuff starting to show up from Adam Beasley and Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald neither of whom would ever be mistaken for Dolphin fans.

    Pictures of Incognito and Martin taking pictures with a fan before the Saints game and sitting together and laughing on the team plane going to Houston for an exhibition game.

    Beasley now wondering why Martin never filed a police report.

    Again for those burying the organization let’s wait till the whole story unfolds then you can support, criticize or whatever.

  118. Amen Florio…Amen.

    Not sure if reading the accounts of what Icognito did makes me more nauseous or the reactions from the NFL players and the geniuses PFT commenters…

    Can’t wait for the player that snaps from the bullying and takes a loaded weapon into a locker room to confront the idiots pulling this crap…I’m sure all the trolls here will back up that guy up for “manning up” and not allowing himself to be disrespected…

    Ugh…this whole story makes me sick…

  119. So sick of seeing the word wussification, it’s a word for rednecks and hillbillies. Imagine Martin is your child how would you want him to handle it? Confront a big oaf or….

  120. I guarantee that 99.99% of the posters talking about how they would have punched Incognito in the mouth and kicked his ass to stop the bullying would, in reality, probably just run and hide if actually confronted and bullied by Richie Incognito.

  121. @footballfan12345:

    That’s funny since ESPN’s James Walker is saying that Adam Schecter is now saying that Martin never approached Philbin.

    That’s ok though since your post sounds like you were there. Please keep us informed of all the facts since you are so sure of yourself.

    Why wait for the truth to come out and then blast or praise whomever you want.

  122. Oh and Martin has a protective order? Gee then why don’t the police have a report of this incident in Florida? Could it be that Martin never filed one? You can’t get a protective order without filing a complaint.

    Like I said let’s wait for the facts.

  123. Great post Mike F. I’m losing respect for a lot of players, former players turned analysts (like Siragusa) and especially unnamed personnel men who’ve cast blame toward Martin. I also can’t believe what Incognito did/said isn’t considered over the line treatment by a lot of these guys. Giving rookies and young players a hard time I one thing — then there’s flat out harassment. This isn’t a case of hazing, or “initiation” or team bonding through tough love… it’s about by people like Incognito who get their kicks out of intimidating others. If he was in another profession, he’d be pulling the same crap in one form or another.

  124. Everyone is trying to be politically correct and the problem with that is we don’t live in a politically correct world. There is no doubt that what incognito did was wrong. But Martin went about this in the wrong way. I believe must of us work in a typical work place where the protocol is that in any situation you are harassed you ether ask that person to stop or report it to you immediate SUPERVISOR. Reports are is that he did not. Than if that does not work you take it to then ext level up. Did Martin do this? If not than he took the selfish and yes, cowardly approach. There is nothing that shows he tried to stop Incognito verbally or other wise. If he had such courage he would have faced his demons. Instead he ran to mommy and daddy who are rich Harvard grads that probably advised him to make it a public spectacle. Here is the other thing. For a very long time the media has covered hazing and other things that would be considered bullying for a very long time now. The media always gave us a sense that it was all in fun. So now one guy takes it too far and the other guy flips out and all of a sudden everything about it is wrong? So where is the media’s responsibility in this? Remember when Dez Bryant did not want to carry pads of vets in his rookie year and the media got on him for not going with tradition? Wasn’t he bullied into it?

  125. I guess the good thing about Joanathan walking out right in the middle of things is that he’s not somebodys heart surgeon.

  126. If you believe that you can’t get away with physically going after a teammate for this kind of disrespect in a NFL locker room then you are a moron. Martin is soft because he has every opportunity to get Incognito, and handle it like a man, and didn’t.

  127. McFaddensPulledHammy says: “Incognito is a POS but if you are one of the other 31 GM’s in the league, do you want Martin on your team? He essentially walked away from the team because he was bullied.”

    He walked away from a “team” that was not ensuring the “team” atmosphere in the locker room. Instead, the “team” looked away and let things fester and get worse. The “team” was not proactive in putting an end to the problem before it became a major issue.

    What other team has a locker room where such behavior is happening? I doubt very much that the Patriots or Steelers or Bengals or Broncos or Cowboys or Packers or Vikings or really any other team would allow this kind of behavior to continue unabated. The NFL “teams” want the team to be a close-knit group who can work and play football together without any such divisive influences in the locker room.

    Sure, there’s hazing of rookies, all in fun and taken that way by the rookies. And, it’s all designed to bring the new guys into the “team” family, as friends. The leaders on the team want the new guys to fit in and be productive, for the benefit of the “team”. This situation in Miami had none of this and that’s why we are where we are here.

    The Miami “team” bears full responsibility for this situation. They certainly knew what was going on and looked the other way and let it happen. It is equally their fault in this matter and I’m sure that it will be brought out that coaches knew what was happening in the past and simply didn’t deal with it.

  128. I agree that Martin did the right thing by reporting it and not fighting back. However, he did the wrong thing by throwing a hissy-fit and walking out on the teammates who weren’t harrassing him. If I’m being bullied at work, I’m certainly going to talk to my boss about it instead of punching the guy in the face. I still have to come to work, though.

  129. I agree completely. I lose respect for those who want to say that Martin was anywhere at fault in this. You don’t tolerate criminal behavior, you don’t keep it ‘in house’ with the ‘family’. Ignorance beyond words from those who spout those things.

  130. I would give anything to see Sirpigga and ANtrel Rolle have to endure what Martin had to. They are ingorant, judgemental, uneducated heartless morons. Shame on them.

  131. I still say he should have busted the bully’s eye socket with a ball bat one night in a dark parking lot. Problem solved without looking like a you’ve got a sugary backside!

  132. Incognito crossed the line. I wonder how general Patton would handle him on Martin’s shoes. Not everything can be handled politically correct. Both of them should be blame for all this circus…

  133. So you say I can’t get a protective order unless I there is a complaint. Really. I can go file for a protective order right now on you. Of course I would need a name, an address, be helpful with ss number or drivers lic number. Now I can even ask for an emergency hearing and get one probably tomorrow morning. Will the judge grant it. No. If I were to file for one and say extend out the hearing, meaning ask for the hearing date to be the day I get back from a business trip I can leave it out there for maybe 30 days. Ok your turn buttercup

  134. It’s unlikely we have the whole story at this point. For all we know, Martin did confront Incognito. It’s impossible to voice strong opinions on what was happening or how it was handled until all the facts are out and the sequence of events is known. It’s my nature to confront people head on. But if someone were threatening to harm my family, I’d go to the police. How you handle things usually depends on what you have to lose.

  135. When I read that Hernandez threatened to “hurt” (gangsta speak for Kill?) Welker because Aaron was too stupid to figure out the video machine and Wes rejected his plea for help, I thought surely it was an anomaly that such a low life scum would be on an NFL team.

    Now I’m wondering if maybe it’s not so much of an anomaly.

  136. Remember when Siragusa intentionally broke Rich Gannon’s arm after the whistle in the AFC Championship game. Real class act. He doesn’t deserve to have his opinion listened to.

  137. all of that stuff he was doing has no place in really any workplace. on a team? where you are working together on the same OL? gosh I am sure their communication in games was awesome!
    why go “tattle” to the coach and worry about losing your job which he had already lost moving left to right. that head coach did not come off like the type of guy you are close to. it wouldn’t surprise me if he and martin have had very few actual conversations.

  138. These Guys need to learn what a man is. Holding your temper in check when provoked makes you more of a man than fighting. Are you a man cause you can punch someone or pull you junk out? Hardly! Goose is an Idiot. but we already knew that.

  139. Okay, Buttercup, cite a single source that claims and/or provides evidence of a protective order issued in Miami-Dade County by Martin against Incognito.

  140. By Florio (which I bet gets deleted)
    A truly grown-ass man will at all times refrain from violence, he’ll file a complaint, and he’ll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it’s still better to punch someone in the mouth.
    Spoken like a man thats dependant on people filing complaints. Gee so unlike an atty. What is the result of a legal complaint other than a way for someone unrelated to the circumstances to make money off anothers problem.

  141. Curious how one can stand their ground “like a man” when they are in a position where there is an expected level of deference to veteran teammates…especially if the default stance of other teammates would be for the more veteran players/personnel.

    It would be just as absurd to tell someone like a congressional aide to stand up for themselves if they felt they were being verbally/mentally abused by the Senator they worked for. Great, you can stand up for yourself..good luck finding a job after that.

    There are countless professions, not just pro sports, where people use their position authority to bully someone fully aware that only extraordinary measures–like reporting a situation to someone with oversight of your organization–are extremely rare because of how damaging such reporting can be to your career well beyond the current job you hold.

    In the “real world” you cannot always stand up to a bully the way some may think a child should on the playground. Being a “grown *ss man” assumes that physical strength somehow makes someone emotionally immune to psychological trauma from being in a position where you cannot address the issue.

  142. ravensgrl says:
    Nov 5, 2013 4:11 PM

    I believe he did go to management… months ago. And management did nothing to address the situation, or thought it would just go away on its own. That is how workplace violence/harassment/bullying works. People make excuses for the ignorant jack-hole who is the problem because it’s harder to stand up and tell them they’re being a jerk.
    You can’t possibly believe Martin told management about the racial messages and threats months ago–and they did absolutely nothing. Saying “Richie is picking on me” is much different from “I have received personal threats and racist messages”. Also, this is not a typical workplace. Everybody seems to be trying to equate an NFL lineman’s work atmosphere with a typical office/retail workplace atmosphere. It just isn’t comparable. These guys’ jobs include hitting and shoving large men who are hitting and shoving them and screaming some nasty stuff in an effort to get under each other’s skin. That is a typical “day at the office” for an NFL lineman on game day. I’m sure that is much different than your job.

  143. Jonathan Martin did exactly the right thing in filing a complaint against Incognito, and what Martin did was far more courageous than being a lemming and challenging the idiot to a fistfight – witness all the flak Martin is catching from the morons who think it more “manly” to resort to violence than to follow the designated procedures for seeking redress. Martin exposed a cancer which should not be present or tolerated in any workplace. I hope he does not return to the Dolphins, given the apparently high percentage of cretins who populate their locker room.

  144. This is the how it is in nfl locker rooms. Every NFL player says that Martin handled it wrong and I agree.

    You may not understand but it happens on every team.

  145. Assaulting someone in response to an insult usually isn’t the wisest thing to do. If he punches him, he likely gets himself kicked off the team. Not the greatest of ideas. Just like in life, if someone insults you (it may not be easy) but the best thing to do may just be to walk away or you may be sitting in prison for beating someone up with a serious injury to someone else on your conscience as well.

  146. There is no way for Martin to “win” in this situation – only to do what is right. Nobody wins when these things happen, at least not immediately.

  147. Martin should never get another chance to play again in the nfl, neither should incognito. Martin cannot call himself a man because he needed to confront incognito and tell him enough and how hat is it to say no! I won’t pay for your vacation, what is incognito going to do? Steal his card and buy it anyway. That was never going to happen. Don’t be weak minded

  148. Here are my 2 cents on this whole saga.
    1) I am all for rookie ‘hazing’, as long as it in the right (read fun spirit). And by fun I mean, both the guy who does it and the guy on the receiving end. Back in college, we used to (and we were picked on by seniors). Other than the usual fun stuff, boundaries were never crossed.
    Also, the concept of fun isn’t a cookie cutter one. If the youngster is not comfortable with parts of the hazing, you back OFF. No if, no buts, no questions. If Martin wasn’t too keen (made his displeasure clearly), the O-line should have let it go. What Richie did was tantamount to extortion and should be treated like a criminal offense (and not a misdemeanor)
    2) People saying Martin should have dealt it like a man. Lets guess if he would have punched (or hurt Rich), how do we know that Richie wouldn’t have pressed criminal charges against Martin. As they say about bullies, is that if they are cornered by some powerful, they do play the victim card.
    3) The worst thing about this is people who are arguing saying that Martin should have let it go and it is a part of toughening out life. Bullying is a criminal offense (a good lawyer can easily equate it to extortion and intimidation) and should be dealt as one.

  149. Its always a fun surprise to see how many pollyanna fans view NFL team culture through rose colored, kum by ya glasses.

    In the sport where players try to hit and hurt each other to the best of their abilities between whistles, facing the realities of the NFL is always received by naive and clueless fans with astonishment and amazement.

    Reading all of these protestations of how the players ought to be instead of understanding how they really are is entertaining, but also met with amazement at how good a job the NFL has done in snookering their fans into believing their sanitized fantasy version of NFL life instead of the actual harsh reality of crude interpersonal relationships fostered by the wins are everything reality and the short throw-away careers most players endure while facing head trauma, broken bones and permanently damaged joints.

    Don’t complain about how the true reality of the pro football culture and tell us how things should be, shocked and uneducated fans should take the time to try to understand the realities of pro football.

  150. Isn’t Ritchie’s job to beat the crap out of people? To push them around? Intimidate them? Make them want to quit?

    And then we’re surprised and shocked when that some how doesn’t stop at the whistle?

    Also, why is it workplace harassment when a teammate is vulgar with someone but NOT when an opponent or FAN is?

    At this rate we should start flagging trash talk during games for creating “poor work environment”. And we should start suing fans for belittling players in social media, because it’s harassment.

    Give me a break. This is professional football where giant-sized men get paid to be violent with each other.

    We LOVE that violence. Lets stop pretending this stuff doesn’t happen.

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